I just don't get it/What am I missing?
yourtime2shine
Posts: 25
I wasn't sure where to post this so If I put it in the wrong forum, sorry
Hi I wanted to use this quote just to comment on something I've been wonderging about...
First let me say I believe MJ is alive not because of this website or TS(I don't really care who TS is-no disrespect meant), why I believe MJ is alive doesn't really matter. I haven't posted here much but have been following along with all the updates. They are all completely compelling but none, if I was a non-believer would make be believe that MJ was alive or their was a hoax and as a believer I just don't see the connection. It's been my experience that anyone who is a believer in numerology and it's uses throughout the ages would naturally use numerology in their everyday life, major decisions, personal life and business life etc. So if MJ believed in numerology then that would naturally be used in decisions throughout his life. So figuring out a pattern with things he's signed or dates for major events etc would then not be that difficult to figure out if one used numerology.
So here is where you lose me with the updates and the website. I've been around for a while now and I don't see the clear connection. How do we jump from numerology to a link to MJ's "death" I don't see proof in that, I see Cleverness, ingenuity, Genius a man who wanted to live his life in line with the universe absolutely, but proof...I just don't get it.?!
Secondly for that matter I have not been able to see where the clear connection comes into play that MJ, the new world order and Mind control can be substantially proved to base the whole theory on. Where did that theory start, what proof is there and where did that proof come from...? Yes he encountered sinister forces in his life and career, we've heard him elude to this on many occasions, but he also had powerful friends so what am I missing?
I am asking these questions with all sincerity...so any info/answers/discussion would be greatly appreciated <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
thanks for the time
yourtime2shine
But I realize not everyone on the forum believes in TS or the hoax theory,...
Hi I wanted to use this quote just to comment on something I've been wonderging about...
First let me say I believe MJ is alive not because of this website or TS(I don't really care who TS is-no disrespect meant), why I believe MJ is alive doesn't really matter. I haven't posted here much but have been following along with all the updates. They are all completely compelling but none, if I was a non-believer would make be believe that MJ was alive or their was a hoax and as a believer I just don't see the connection. It's been my experience that anyone who is a believer in numerology and it's uses throughout the ages would naturally use numerology in their everyday life, major decisions, personal life and business life etc. So if MJ believed in numerology then that would naturally be used in decisions throughout his life. So figuring out a pattern with things he's signed or dates for major events etc would then not be that difficult to figure out if one used numerology.
So here is where you lose me with the updates and the website. I've been around for a while now and I don't see the clear connection. How do we jump from numerology to a link to MJ's "death" I don't see proof in that, I see Cleverness, ingenuity, Genius a man who wanted to live his life in line with the universe absolutely, but proof...I just don't get it.?!
Secondly for that matter I have not been able to see where the clear connection comes into play that MJ, the new world order and Mind control can be substantially proved to base the whole theory on. Where did that theory start, what proof is there and where did that proof come from...? Yes he encountered sinister forces in his life and career, we've heard him elude to this on many occasions, but he also had powerful friends so what am I missing?
I am asking these questions with all sincerity...so any info/answers/discussion would be greatly appreciated <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
thanks for the time
yourtime2shine
Comments
By taking into consideration that the numerology of these major events still continues after his "death" (if he's really dead, he can't continue "planning" anything, now can he?) and the numerology persists all throughout the time he is supposedly "dying": 911 call (12:21), time of death (2:26), etc...
TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder < Read Section 4-11, 4-16, 4-17, 4-18
TIAI Update #4c: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder < Read Section 4-22, 4-23, 4-24, 4-28
Also checkout Section 6-8 Elvis & MJ Numerology in the latest update.
In other words I presume you're asking, "what has demonstrated — beyond a shadow of a doubt — that Michael intends to expose the NWO via this death hoax" ?
To be honest, even after reading over TIAI Revealed, Part 7: NWO Powers Control the Media (R29-42), I can't say anything has. For sure TS wants to expose the NWO (as we can see by his/her/their redirects), but nothing concretely indicates Michael intended to. We're just going off TS's say-so that this is what Michael wants/plans to do, that this is one of the main intentions behind the hoax (and it can very well be Michael's intention), but the information doesn't reflect that, so you're right. That section isn't very convincing in that respect; the evidence has failed to speak for itself — on Michael's behalf anyway. I know Michael has spoken about the media conspiracy against him, how the "powers that be" have changed our history books, and how there was a conspiracy involving his SONY/ATV catalogue (the part about the catalogue isn't mentioned in the redirect; you can listen to the full interview here: Michael Jackson Interview with Jesse Jackson & transcript here: text) but there isn't anything concrete that ties "the hoax" with "exposing the NWO" besides TS & the redirects.
However, remember that any overly-noticeable indication that this (exposing the NWO)is what Michael planned to do would have incurred the NWO's "wrath" upon him before he ever had a chance to carry anything out. So, I'm guessing he had no other choice but to utilize the anonymity of the internet and use TS to get the NWO message out (of course, making the world believe you're dead makes it that much safer too).
I'm going to assume here, but I think the super-structure of the NWO-powers (how they've infiltrated all areas of society) pretty much dwarfs any authority Michael's few "powerful" friends may have. But again, I'm just speculating here and maybe he has more powerful friends than I can perceive and maybe, like you, some of the NWO information has completely flown over my head. Any one else care to help here?
This is a good thing. You should NEVER base your beliefs on any one person. IMHO this is how cults begin. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I have a question, when did you start believing MJ was still alive?
For many of us, this belief came before TIAI ever came on the scene. Our doubts came first because of strange inconsistencies in things that were reported. Then after research our doubts were confirmed. Then, for me anyways, these things that seemed odd kept popping up and I felt like I was finding these inconsistencies... then I wondered if these inconsistencies were not something I was finding out that I wasn't supposed to (like solving a crime), but something I was finding out that I was SUPPOSED to find (finding clues to confirm a hoax).
I can totally understand what you are saying. I too, just looking at the clues, wouldn't not be convinced that MJ was alive. That's why a recap of things we found strange in the death, in events that occurred just after the death, etc. is imperative.
Again, it's not about going from numerology to MJ's death. It's more about proving things and the statistics of a coincidence. What I mean is, again I can only speak of my journey, I had doubts, saw inconsistencies, and had a gut feeling that MJ is still very much alive. I started believing in a faked death. Then I started seeing clues. Then I started wondering if he planned this. Then we saw numerological connections - 7's, 11's, weird things that go beyond just mere coincidence. TIAI came to me it was like a friend saying "hey have you noticed this?" "hey have you thought about this?" Then I went and DID MY OWN RESEARCH. I found strange coincidences that HAD to be planned because the statistical chance of it happening on it's own are so outrageous that it didn't make sense to just happen.
Well, again, if you do research into this you will find that it's not just MJ, this is a world issue. I, personally had been looking into this stuff for a year before MJ even "died'. A friend of mine starting talking about things he was looking into regarding mind control and the music industry. I found it interesting and wanted to look into it myself. Then when MJ's death came up and other people starting talking about this, it was just a continuation of what had been shown to me much earlier. MJ was a very well read man (from what I've heard) and I'm sure he knew about this stuff as well. I wonder if those powerful friends you refer to helped him to get out of a possibly lethal situation? This is a question only to be answered by MJ.
I hear your sincerity and I welcome the opportunity to express why I believe what I do. I think we should all jump on the chance to help people answer questions like this because it forces us to review what we do believe.
So many of us believe what is fed to us by media and we don't know if that stuff is true or not. It could be 100% a lie and we take it as truth. It is important to research everything and to focus on the things that are going to make a direct impact on our lives. Honestly, we focus on the stupiest things. Like really, how is the awareness that MJ got 2 surgeries vs 4 going to impact how I live my life?
I feel very blessed to be on this hoax journey because it has put things in perspective for me and TS and TIAI or whoever else has gently guided me with suggestions on things to look into that has spurred me to look into things that he/she hasn't even suggested yet! But it has helped me to get back into my Bible (the real truth) and to treat those around me (family/strangers/friends) with more love and compassion. Hopefully with your sincere quest for the truth, and your willingness to ask the questions and do the research, you too will live a fuller life.
Much love to you my friend.
Lilwendy
My question about the NWO has nothing to do with their existence the question ffor me is exactly where is the proof that Michael did this because of or to expose the NWO. Where is that initial proof and where did it come from? Was if first from STUDY/TS, was it from a "source" where is the proof?
Is it all speculation and conclusions drawn from Michael's statements about the Media, Sony etc.
you have brought up things that deserve to be given more research and consideration. probably requires a trip back to the beginning. or maybe somewhere in the middle. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
also requires a fitting for an exclusive designer straight jacket.
I really don't remember where this link was made initially, so many things have been going on. But one thing is for sure in my head is that one of the goal of this hoax is to fight the NWO powers. I will just say that The Dangerous autograph tells a lot to me, it is from Michael, and TS explanations on the matter make perfect sense IMHO:
From Update 4:
4-14. The Autograph Code on “Dangerous”
There are several unique things about this Dangerous autograph, different than the other 1998 autographs: #1 the arrow points down, not diagonal or up; #2 there is different symbol which points up (^); #3 there is a division symbol; #4 there is a number 4; #5 the three repeating digits are vertical, not horizontal; #6 at least two of the three repeating digits look more like 6’s than circles.
On the other autographs: the arrow is diagonally upward, and can obviously represent resurrection (on 9-9-09); in this case, the arrow is down and would represent the death. But you also have the resurrection here, with the upward pointing caret (^). However, these symbols are part of the equation, as well: start with the 1998, go down (subtract) by 666 = 1332; then insert this answer (caret means insert) into the last part: 1332 / 4 = 333.
Of what significance is 333? It is the exact number needed to turn the NWO 666 pyramid upside-down; 666 + 333 = 999!!! In fact, that is why the three digits on the dangerous code are vertical, not horizontal; they represent the vertical layering system of the pyramid (666), and then turned upside down (999).
Some have thought that one or more of the vertical digits in the Dangerous autograph are zeros, not sixes; however, the top two digits are much closer to a six than a zero—and even the bottom digit has a small hook if you look carefully. MJ is not careless, and he was not writing sloppy zeros; in fact, notice that if anything, his zeros have a gap on the top—not an overlap and hook. So it’s three sixes, just written so that it would not be very obvious—both because it is a code, and also because 666 might scare some people if they didn’t realize the purpose for it in this context.
Remember also that I explained the meaning of the 1998 and Dangerous autograph before 9-9-09 <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1924&p=27558#p27893<!-- l -->. So I was not merely looking at a past event, and trying to force the code to fit into something that is history (such as some have done). Oh and by the way: this Dangerous autograph redirect was done on 3-3, 2010 (2 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 3); and again, 1998 – 666 = 1332; 1332 / 4 = 333!
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=72&t=7064<!-- l -->
The numbers are a way for Michael to convey his message and not many people (and to my knowledge only TS) explained the meaning of this autograph and this entire update finally explains well how it is part of Michael's plan. Now I don't say that we must base ourselves exclusively on this to link the hoax with the NWO but there is a ray of hints and clues leading us to believe so and here the numbers just don't lie, they clearly have a meaning. Trusting TS doesn't mean that we cannot think for ourselves, on the contrary I see it as having thought for myself because I was able to see by the information he provided that he was legit and known more than any other 'hoaxer', I finally have been able to make a choice based on the content of his posts.
The same way we have no 'hot' proof to show people that Michael is alive and turn them into beLIEvers in the second by presenting them this proof, it requires a lot of reading and investigation and it's rather the amount of inconsistences that makes the hoax a reality than one single proof, otherwise the hoax would be too obvious. I feel the same for the NWO destruction, Michael has to be careful hence this mysterious character named TS. The TMZ articles also give clues in that sense. Now it depends on how you perceive this hoax and the players in game.
It only requires a straight jacket if you keep searching for ideas or proofs to try and make a conclusion, fact. You can support any conclusion with clips and snippets of certain info whether left in context or taken out of context. So going to the beginning is exaclty what I mean. It's in the beginning where all would be revealed. So in saying that there has to be a jumping off point for the intial point-of-fact that is proposed that Mike faked his death to reveal the clutches of the NWO on him and the world should be easily identified on a whole site that states this is the reason he did this, But where is it? I only see the efforts to make it all fit. So it is all based on theory then?!
After reading your post the question I pose to you then is what came first. The presentation that the NWO was the reason behind Mike's doing this then the proof or did the "proof" make you believe that Mike did this because of the NWO etc. Because those numbers and symbols have both positive and negative connotations throughout history. whose to say because one can explain one meaning that it is the right one. Just like the Media, one can find any piece of information to prove their theory. how do you know it's the rigt one when the research you do is to prove only that theory. Then I still ask where is the initial source, reason, statement of fact. I'm not asking you to prove to me that the theory seems reasonable. If I'm making any sense <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
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i think they are 2 separate issues. when you speak of NWO, you're talking about theories or possible reasons that he faked his death. could be NWO, could be total vindication, could be other things. that is where we are now, in my opinion, because we have already established -
the beginning, as you call it, which is the question of did he fake his death? and i think that with the long list of inconsistencies and odd things we have been given, it is reasonable to conclude that he did. it's true that it's a matter of perception, and that a non-believer sees these inconsistencies in a totally different way. if i may say so, however, they don't really have good explanations for them. so it's more that they gloss over these things because their mind is closed. they have decided he is dead, and that's it. some even said if you have common sense, you'll know he's dead. but the believers are precisely using a lot of their common sense in questioning the things that don't add up.
the personal judgment on whether he faked his death or not is not theory-based, i think. it is a judgment you come to after analyzing bits and pieces of the story, from different angles.
You know what, all this makes me think of the belief in God or not. Some people consider that the truth is just before our eyes and the existence of a God is just obvious but many people just don't see it. For others there always must be another explanation. Sometimes the evidence seems to be tractable according to a person's viewpoint. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> Well it's off topic sorry. <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: -->
I don't know if I really understood your question (maybe because I'm fasting and my brain seems to be slow <!-- s
What came first? I first believed that Michael faked his death and very rapidly and in the field of my viewpoint and my 'knowledge' of Michael I thought that he did it because of the NWO, at least because of the people who were against him. This proof (the numbers, the autograph) as I consider it to be a proof just consolidate me in my thinking. So if I understand where you want to go, you wanna say that these numbers cannot be presented as a proof for someone who don't know Michael Jackson and even less about the hoax. But in order to believe that, people have first to believe that Michael is still alive or it wouldn't make sense. Then when people achieve this first step and begin to question why Micheal did fake his death they can analyze these numbers. Why believe in the still alive part and not in the NWO one?
Plus I want to highlight the fact that the numbers are used throughout the whole hoax to prove that this is all planned, so if you think that the numbers can be interpreted negatively you must also consider that all the numbers from the very start can prove that Michael can be really dead and that someone evil wanted to make us believe that Michael was still alive. But this theory is highly unbelievable of course.
(I don't know if this is where you wanted to go though, sorry if off topic but I wanted to say it <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> ).
Yes of course but we must consider the context, this is the context that finally makes someting good or evil. Here we have 'Michael Jackson faking his death' as a context and to me it's pretty clear that the numbers are to be interpreted in the good side, unless Michael Jackson is part of the dark side, thing in which I really don't believe. Now even people who think so will have hard time to make me think otherwise because 666 is well known to represent the evil side and it's not difficult to understand that reversing this satanic system, the pyramidal system, makes 999. Other than that I really don't see another explanation.
Now if you really think that these numbers can show the contrary that TS has explained and be negatively interpreted I'm really interested to see what you have found. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I don't know if there is an initial source of proof and in my knowledge of the hoax only TS made clear statements and showed clear evidence that this hoax was linked to the NWO. That's why TS is important in this 'game'.
Now that I have ended this post I feel like you were asking a very simple question, the last part in reality, my answer seems way too long and sometimes I digress but I can't just erase everything so I keep it like that <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->.
if you look at the board index you will see that initially there were a few different theories about the motivation for the hoax. while nwo has always been one of the more dominate theories it has gained more momentum over time. as for the connection that ts brings . i only know that the elvis connection seems to have been thought to be in the mix from early on also. if you are new i suggest you go back to these and take a look. i don't know what part of the original materials are left as there was a change of ownership at one point that was proceeded by a crash of the site. well this is what my brain can remember to try and help you . i don't know if i have given you enough information to help you firgure out what you are missing <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> there have been an amazing amount of poeple who have felt like they are here do to God's leading ( if you will) and some who imo are seeking something . we have had many members cross this threshold that are no longer here. but i guess that is to be expected.i suggest you reveiw.
To me they aren't two seperate issues because to even think there is any validity to the whole NWO idea you would have to believe he faked his death, otherwise the whole number theory and TS proofs would mean nothing. Supposedly the whole reason the NWO theory came up is because someone, somewhere said either I have this fact or this theory and I believe he did this because of this or I have proof he faked his death because of NWO control. Wouldn't you then have to be a believer. To me it isn't a matter of believer or non-believers. But to remove the idea that there are two seperate topics let say that everyone who visits the NWO theory believes Mike is alive and is trying to figure out why he did this...even though I believe you'll never come close to the reason why...It still doesn't tell me as a believer or one who says Mike is alive where the NWO/mike Connection started, what fact it's based in, who came up with the idea, theory or fact. I mean reading the site I would assume TS/Study but we all know what happens when we assume. So If you inititially followed the idea that Mike is alive then decided to try and figure out why, then what led you to the NWO theory.
If you did not believe he was alive could you be convinved by the TS evidence that he was and that it further was a plot of this elitess group who hopes to minimize the population and control the world and out of fear and this numbers theory it should be revealed that Mike faked his death? Then if you were convinced wouldn't you still seek where the theory originated...?
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I don't thinkk it was long at all or off topic I followed exactly how and what you were saying to prove your point. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> thank you I'll post more after I have thought about your post. thank you for your time and opinion.
Hi thank you for your time and info I truely appreciate that. I am not new, I just have not posted much, so I have reviewed all the info. I'm not putting down anyone for their seeking, or the feeling that they are being lead or called to this not at all. each of us have to follow our own hearts and paths. I am not one to say you are wrong or not, I think you are welcome to your opinion and I am interested in hearing any and speaking about it. Neither of us has to agree or disagree to have an exchange of ideas.
I don't recall reading early on about any connection to Elvis and the index is mostly proofs that Mike is alive, then the illuminati, mkultra/mind control/NWO theories on why he faked his death.. Is that what you are referring to> To me those are all interrelated...yes?
perhaps
hi, i'm sorry that i did not get your post right. you're specifically asking about the NWO connection to the hoax, whereas i have not made up my mind yet on whether the NWO is indeed related to the hoax. that's why to me, the hoax per se and the reasons behind it are two separate issues.
Blessings to you. I'm very much enjoying this topic because of your excellent way of expressing your ideas and questions without putting anybody down for not thinking the same as you. Thank you so very much for that.
I am one who was led on this journey by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. I'm still here over a year later because God has not given me peace to move on. I might add that I did not believe in the hoax right away. It wasn't until December of last year that I finally gave in to my inner conflict. What I was witnessing with my eyes drew continual conflict in my soul as I didn't have an answer for the inconsistencies that I saw. My belief had nothing to do with NWO or numerology. So, you might say that I am one that was a non-believer but who is now a believer.
I've never entertained the idea that the NWO was the reason for the hoax. I am not saying that I'm right because I could be wrong but I just don't sense in my spirit that this is the reason. The NWO was being discussed when I came to the forum but it didn't alter my belief one way or the other.
Numerology - I am always in awe when I read some of the incredible research that some here on the forum put into the numerology aspect of the hoax. It would seem totally unbelievable if it weren't written down for me to see. Numerology didn't make me believe in the hoax but being a Christian I don't believe in coincidence either. Saying that, the numerology is too coincidental to pass off as a fluke. I do have to admit that I don't understand it all and I don't think this is the reason for the hoax either but I do think numerology plays a part.
I remember back to June 25, 2009 when I fell apart as though Michael was a close family member instead of someone I didn't even know or think about. My search to find out why I was touched so deeply left me with God's voice whispering softly in my ear "walk by faith and not by sight". And that is what I've tried to do since that time.
This may not answer your question but I am thankful that you've persuaded us into thinking deeper about why and what we base our belief in the hoax on. Many blessings to you. Would you be interested in sharing why you believe Michael is alive? I realize it may not matter but I do value the input of others.
For myself, I was aware of some of these issues prior to Michael hoaxing his death and had actually been researching them. I was also not a fan and feel that I have been called.
In the readings I have done, I do recall reading somewhere that when Michael's computers were confiscated that it showed he had been visiting "conspiracy" websites and forums. I am sorry I do not have a link as I read this way back in the summer of 2009.
I was blown away by this man, and grieved terribly, and was mystified why. Only because I was already questioning everything, I typed in MJ death hoax, weeks after the death. This has truly been an adventure for me, and I have been enjoying the community here so much, learning so much from everybody. After immersing myself in his interviews and everything MJ, when I read the TIAI, it just seemed to me to totally match him in everything, down to his dreams, passions, loves, interest in conspiracies, knowledge of classical poems, books, movies, and music. At first I really believed it was Michael himself, until TS said he wasn't MJ. It seemed to me that many/mostly everyone(I could be mistaken) who had been at the original site from near the beginning, also easily instinctively connected TIAI topics, including conspiracies, to MJ himself. So we knew it had to be someone very close to MJ. Personally I think for a non-hoax believer to be convinced, he would have to have already questioned whether or not we can trust what we've always been told, a seed planted, which would open the mind to question other things. There's a jump of faith required, because the vast majority are believing the official story, and who wants to be laughed at or considered a conspiracy nut. My 2 cents. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
so sorry I misunderstood. thank you for explaining that to me.
Thank you so much for such a wonderful compliment. I am touched and grateful.
I completely understand the idea of the prompting by something other than or outside of yourself, to follow a path that your not exactly sure of the reason but you feel compelled to do so.
If I may ask, in December what exactly led you to the idea of the hoax...were you already watching videos and reading about the hoax and that what made you believe or did you go from a non-believer to a believer then find all this info on the web? I really don't like using that word hoax, I'm not really sure how it applies to this whole situation any longer. I mean the sure the quintessencial definition applies but I think it has become so diluted in the whole process of searching for a reason, I think can't possibly be known, not yet, that it has almost a dehumanizing process for Mike. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> sorry went off topic there a minute. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Numerology - What part do you think numerology plays in all of this?
I think alot of people felt the way you did on the 25th and I love that you have courage to follow that inner prompting and not ignore it completely.
To me the only way something can be answered completey is with the idea of full disclosure. To use a riddle to make you think more so you are not surprised when you here the answer when it is told to you doesn't mean the answer to the riddle is the correct answer to the bigger question. It is only the answer to the game you have been playing. Is it a game then? Riddles always have veiled or double meanings. Does it lead you to the truth, I'm not sure but it is all very curious.
I cannot give you a reason why I believe Michael is alive because I have none to give. I will say I have no doubt that he is. That is not meant to be cryptic I just have no eloquent answer to that question. I'm sure at some point I have felt all the feelings as described by others who believed. A prompting, or to support someone who needs it, or come together as one for another human being. All I can say is I have no doubt.
Thank you so much for sharing and participating in the discussion. Being aware of these issues does that make you believe that this is the reason for faking his death?
What is the calling leading you to? What do you believe is the reason for the calling?