I don't. And neither do you. But at least I have the mind open to not look at him as to an object that a lot of fans portray him to be, and I also can look beyond the surface.
Don't take it personal as my thoughts are regarding everyone who still can get rid of the sweet and naive like image they put on him.
Gema was pointing out the exact same thing Anna, she just used different words and a different approach, but in the end it was the same thing.
Gema, you should really speak for yourself. Generalizing doesn't make it true - it's what I call flock sense. So, at least start by saying a kind "in my opinion things work like..." ect. It's not like your opinion is the right one if you force it into people or if you think you're right. Believe me. You think you're right, fine,ok. But this doesn't mean it will work with rules of anybody's ass.
I didn't take this as Gema's personal opinion, I took is as Gema describing how the majority of fans THINK it works.
Gema, you should really speak for yourself. Generalizing doesn't make it true - it's what I call flock sense. So, at least start by saying a kind "in my opinion things work like..." ect. It's not like your opinion is the right one if you force it into people or if you think you're right. Believe me. You thnk you're right, fine,ok. But this doesn't mean it will work with rules of anybody's ass.
Tarja and Anna, I know that you are sisters and have a tendency of making my posts degradate in to personal remmarks as happened at the other forum. I know where this is leading. Judgemental posts about my persona are not going to contribute anything to the thread.
Please, don´t take this personal <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I asked you at the other forum and I do it here as well.
Once more I let you know that I express myself in the way I do for whatever reasons I do and I do not expect anybody to agree or disagree with me. This is part of a debate concerning "education" and I want to read opinions based on views about behaviour and approaches of fans vs artists and I am very interested in reading more from that perspective an took the position of the "fan" to understand better their points of view.
I will go on with my position in order to learn and that´s it.
I don't. And neither do you. But at least I have the mind open to not look at him as to an object that a lot of fans portray him to be, and I also can look beyond the surface.
Don't take it personal as my thoughts are regarding everyone who still can get rid of the sweet and naive like image they put on him.
Gema was pointing out the exact same thing Anna, she just used different words and a different approach, but in the end it was the same thing.
Yes, thanks Mo. I am happy you understand what I am meaning.
Gema, you should really speak for yourself. Generalizing doesn't make it true - it's what I call flock sense. So, at least start by saying a kind "in my opinion things work like..." ect. It's not like your opinion is the right one if you force it into people or if you think you're right. Believe me. You think you're right, fine,ok. But this doesn't mean it will work with rules of anybody's ass.
I didn't take this as Gema's personal opinion, I took is as Gema describing how the majority of fans THINK it works.
Yes again. Thanks.
All my coments are based on a debate regarding education.
Some people must understand that all artists are human beings like everyone else, and as any person has the right to privacy, to respect for his private and family life and not be harassed.
The principle of all is to treat others the way you want to be treated.
This is the moral principle par excellence that has been long overdue and different cultures. Some examples. Confucius: "don't do to another that you would not like to make you". Christianity: "all the things you want men to do with you, well you do with them", etc. After this simple principle there is a scale of values, a morality that puts highest point to consistency and gives meaning to the personal and social life.
Some people must understand that all artists are human beings like everyone else, and as any person has the right to privacy, to respect for his private and family life and not be harassed.
The principle of all is to treat others the way you want to be treated.
This is the moral principle par excellence that has been long overdue and different cultures. Some examples. Confucius: "don't do to another that you would not like to make you". Christianity: "all the things you want men to do with you, well you do with them", etc. After this simple principle there is a scale of values, a morality that puts highest point to consistency and gives meaning to the personal and social life.
I absolutely agree with BlackJack and Gema. When your love for someone becomes an obssession, it's unhealthy, smth morbid. Once I saw an episode where an obssessed fan jumped on Michael just in front of the street and i could see in his eyes that he was horrified and disgusted by her hysterical behaviour.Knowing Michael- how shy and conservative he is, "stalkers" should keep in mind that he would not like such a behaviour.Yes he is always very polite to them but i believe that it's just because he is a real gentleman and doesn't like hurting anyone, esp the fans. In Barbara Walter's interview Michael himself stated that celebrities are human beings too and they need some space.
@Paula, can those quotes apply when one is "out of controll and thrilled"?
Some people must understand that all artists are human beings like everyone else, and as any person has the right to privacy, to respect for his private and family life and not be harassed.
The principle of all is to treat others the way you want to be treated.
This is the moral principle par excellence that has been long overdue and different cultures. Some examples. Confucius: "don't do to another that you would not like to make you". Christianity: "all the things you want men to do with you, well you do with them", etc. After this simple principle there is a scale of values, a morality that puts highest point to consistency and gives meaning to the personal and social life.
[youtube:jyl5z9je]
I found this one as well on the way <!-- s --><!-- s -->
[youtube:jyl5z9je]
When your love for someone becomes an obssession, it's unhealthy, smth morbid.
Correct. That love which is obsessive, even more when comes from someone you don´t even know, becomes 10 times more dangerous and life threathening.
"Michael, I love you and only me loves you and anyone who gets close to you will suffer because I love you so much and you need to know, happy with you or unhappy without you but if I don´t have you no other will have you, because my love for you is so pure that i´ll die and kill for you" , "get away from here because I am the one for him, believe it or not, he is mine...." , "I hope that you cough to death" (Quotes from chats and messages)
Possesion and love are not the same thing. Possesion and passion are not the same thing.
For some "fans" looks to be a rat race.
Michael said millions of times "I love you" but I am sure that many people did not understand the pure meaning of the word: Love is the emotion of strong affection and personal attachment.[1] In philosophical context, love is a virtue representing all of human kindness, compassion, and affection. In religious context, love is not just a virtue, but the basis for all being ("God is love"[2]), and the foundation for all divine law (Golden Rule).
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love<!-- m -->
And those who don´t really understand the meaning and context said in to, lose control, jealousy comes inside the picture, also insecurities, competition and all kind of "human nature" feelings in order to become the strongest in the rat race.
Wow some of those youtube comments just go to show the type of mentality... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
i'd do the same thing..if he invited other girl and i wasn't invited, i'll be jealous as hell too! and would have pulled out his hair or probably grab on his shirt, or step on his feet or something to hurt him for being unfair. >:-|
Gema what happens is that I am a fanatic, or religion, or in political or anything and when I look at this kind of behavior of people in the first video you posted, not realizing that people react that way, or the woman in red who appears in another video chasing Michael, God craziness
The BAD news is that apparently there is a stalker in all of us, the GOOD news is that only a small minority actually become real celebrities worshippers... just like Tick and Flea!
The Stalker in All of Us
New research shows that our interest in celebrities runs on a continuum of obsession.
By Carlin Flora, published on July 01, 2004 - last reviewed on October 28, 2004
We like to think that we're nothing like star stalkers, but former Southern Illinois University School of Medicine psychologist James Houran and his colleagues have found that the interest in celebrities runs on a continuum, from Entertainment Tonight regulars all the way to John Hinckley.
The team has devised a Celebrity Attitude Scale to measure the span. On the innocuous end of the scale are people who join fan clubs or buy lousy records out of loyalty--about one in five of us fit this category, according to the teams' 600-person survey. And these fans aren't lonely singles at home with their cats. "These people are outgoing and believe people should have close relationships with others," says Houran. "For some reason [they don't] feel a part of their social milieu." Adoring celebrities is normal for children and adolescents, Houran notes, since they are still figuring out their own identities.
The next stage of celebrity fascination, Intense-Personal, involves feelings that are a little stronger--and stranger. "I consider my favorite celebrity to be my soul mate," people in this category assert. About 1 percent of those in the survey are true celebrity worshippers, who agree that "if I were lucky enough to meet my favorite celebrity and he/she asked me to do something illegal as a favor, I would probably do it." These intense fans probably get sucked in when their lives go off the rails for other reasons, the team theorizes.
Houran's studies indicate that the most deeply obsessed also show signs of erotomania, the delusion of having a love affair with an unattainable or uninterested person. Helen Fisher, the Rutgers University anthropologist who studies courtship and attraction, speculates that celebrity obsession is a form of romantic love. Romance is associated with lower levels of the neurochemical serotonin, breeding the obsessive and addictive behavior characteristic of both love affairs and the compulsion to buy Us Weekly. Star worshippers, though, are bound to be disappointed, she points out: "It won't last forever, because the love can't be returned."
The answer to the problem of stalker fans before any re-education can take place, may be to simply give them medication to raise their level of the neurochemical serotonin... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
On a serious note, I am still looking for the hidden TRUTH in this thread; I think I am hallucinating at the moment, it feels like too much Sun!
This thread has many good points in it that I hope will not be glossed over if you can follow the information flow.............. sometimes the TRUTH is hidden in plain sight... even amongst the gossip!!
Gema what happens is that I am a fanatic, or religion, or in political or anything and when I look at this kind of behavior of people in the first video you posted, not realizing that people react that way, or the woman in red who appears in another video chasing Michael, God craziness
! coño que fastidiosa !
Una mosca cojonera decimos en mi tierra <!-- s --><!-- s -->
The BAD news is that apparently there is a stalker in all of us, the GOOD news is that only a small minority actually become real celebrities worshippers... just like Tick and Flea!
The Stalker in All of Us
New research shows that our interest in celebrities runs on a continuum of obsession.
By Carlin Flora, published on July 01, 2004 - last reviewed on October 28, 2004
We like to think that we're nothing like star stalkers, but former Southern Illinois University School of Medicine psychologist James Houran and his colleagues have found that the interest in celebrities runs on a continuum, from Entertainment Tonight regulars all the way to John Hinckley.
The team has devised a Celebrity Attitude Scale to measure the span. On the innocuous end of the scale are people who join fan clubs or buy lousy records out of loyalty--about one in five of us fit this category, according to the teams' 600-person survey. And these fans aren't lonely singles at home with their cats. "These people are outgoing and believe people should have close relationships with others," says Houran. "For some reason [they don't] feel a part of their social milieu." Adoring celebrities is normal for children and adolescents, Houran notes, since they are still figuring out their own identities.
The next stage of celebrity fascination, Intense-Personal, involves feelings that are a little stronger--and stranger. "I consider my favorite celebrity to be my soul mate," people in this category assert. About 1 percent of those in the survey are true celebrity worshippers, who agree that "if I were lucky enough to meet my favorite celebrity and he/she asked me to do something illegal as a favor, I would probably do it." These intense fans probably get sucked in when their lives go off the rails for other reasons, the team theorizes.
Houran's studies indicate that the most deeply obsessed also show signs of erotomania, the delusion of having a love affair with an unattainable or uninterested person. Helen Fisher, the Rutgers University anthropologist who studies courtship and attraction, speculates that celebrity obsession is a form of romantic love. Romance is associated with lower levels of the neurochemical serotonin, breeding the obsessive and addictive behavior characteristic of both love affairs and the compulsion to buy Us Weekly. Star worshippers, though, are bound to be disappointed, she points out: "It won't last forever, because the love can't be returned."
The answer to the problem of stalker fans before any re-education can take place, may be to simply give them medication to raise their level of the neurochemical serotonin... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
With L.O.V.E[/quote]
I agree with the article.
[On a serious note, I am still looking for the hidden TRUTH in this thread; I think I am hallucinating at the moment, it feels like too much Sun!
This thread has many good points in it that I hope will not be glossed over if you can follow the information flow.............. sometimes the TRUTH is hidden in plain sight... even amongst the gossip!!/quote]
I am hallucinating also, I did not understand what you mean <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I am hallucinating also, I did not understand what you mean
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> Literally speaking... I am hallucinating Gema! It happened when I started to think about which TRUTH could be hidden in plain sight and the first thought that came to mind was ... well... that MJ is actually interacting with us on this site. Obviously, it is pure Hallucination... that's why I said I am hallucinating! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I am hallucinating also, I did not understand what you mean
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> Literally speaking... I am hallucinating Gema! It happened when I started to think about which TRUTH could be hidden in plain sight and the first thought that came to mind was ... well... that MJ is actually interacting with us on this site. Obviously, it is pure Hallucination... that's why I said I am hallucinating! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
With L.O.V.E
Do you think about someone in particular? Or maybe that it's better to not try to find out...
I am hallucinating also, I did not understand what you mean
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> Literally speaking... I am hallucinating Gema! It happened when I started to think about which TRUTH could be hidden in plain sight and the first thought that came to mind was ... well... that MJ is actually interacting with us on this site. Obviously, it is pure Hallucination... that's why I said I am hallucinating! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
With L.O.V.E
Of course he is! look at your signature!! it´s him!!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
sorry but I can't hear when he's telling her to back off <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
It's very clear, he looks at her, points at her and clearly says "Back off, dont come any closer". 3:50
[youtube:2xp11qpb]
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I felt obliged to know a bit more about the groups being discussed in this thread.
During my search, I found a link that lead me to another forum and I saw this post:
"Ganesha Om" Members
Ganesha Om is a secret Group started up by Karen Faye specifically as a secret group to organize followers to infiltrate a list of people Karen wanted information on, such as facebook pages, twitter accounts, Myspace and other social networking groups and forums, similar to what is going on with TINI members.
Are you kidding????, a 50 year old woman organizing a gang to spy on others???
This can´t be true <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Below is a list of the Members of "Ganesha OM". Currently the page has not had a post on it for quite a while and they may have abandoned it for another secret group
Having too much free time aren´t we? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Alexandra Dimitru = Alexandra Dumitru
Alex Salza = Alexandra Salazar
Atenea Hella = Ana Paula
Aymi Danslamusique = Aymi Derham
Betty Laura Giro = Laura Girotto
Carmen Klaassen = La ZehKah
Cecilia Matthews = Cecilia Mattsson
Christine Verena = Christine Börsch
Connie Kinert = Connie Kleinert
Dee Shelby = Dee Gurler
Donna Madison Bee = Donna Bee
Gaby Hope = Gaby Hecker
Heather Ellis = Heather Eiring
Heidi M Jackson = Heidi Andreasen
Iris Hunter = Iris Jäger
Jackie Dee = Jackie Dadeush
Jaclyn Reneseme = Jaclyn Reznicek
Jacqueline Lauren = Jacqueline Laurencelle
Janus Juni = Juni Kaefer
Jarmila Bond = Jarmila Bukovská
Klara Verstand = Sabine Uhrmeister
Karen Richards = Karen Brake Richmond
Karin Flink = Karin Schnell
Katrin Raven = Katrin Richter
Laura Trilly = Laura Trezzi
Laureen Armangau = Laureen Armengau
Manuela Vegas = Manuela Voigt
Mariam Maisuradze = Mariam Amurvelashvili
Mariola King = Mariola Rey
Marion Bond = Marion Bland
Martina Maria = Martina Ziegener
Micheline Pella = Micheline Perlman
Mina Adami = Mina S Amadi
Monica Newman = Monica von Neumann
Comments
Gema was pointing out the exact same thing Anna, she just used different words and a different approach, but in the end it was the same thing.
I didn't take this as Gema's personal opinion, I took is as Gema describing how the majority of fans THINK it works.
Tarja and Anna, I know that you are sisters and have a tendency of making my posts degradate in to personal remmarks as happened at the other forum. I know where this is leading. Judgemental posts about my persona are not going to contribute anything to the thread.
Please, don´t take this personal <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I asked you at the other forum and I do it here as well.
Once more I let you know that I express myself in the way I do for whatever reasons I do and I do not expect anybody to agree or disagree with me. This is part of a debate concerning "education" and I want to read opinions based on views about behaviour and approaches of fans vs artists and I am very interested in reading more from that perspective an took the position of the "fan" to understand better their points of view.
I will go on with my position in order to learn and that´s it.
Yes, thanks Mo. I am happy you understand what I am meaning.
Yes again. Thanks.
All my coments are based on a debate regarding education.
I only posted it, saying that I find this interesting.
The principle of all is to treat others the way you want to be treated.
This is the moral principle par excellence that has been long overdue and different cultures. Some examples. Confucius: "don't do to another that you would not like to make you". Christianity: "all the things you want men to do with you, well you do with them", etc. After this simple principle there is a scale of values, a morality that puts highest point to consistency and gives meaning to the personal and social life.
[youtube:386v1y4n]
[youtube:jyl5z9je]
I found this one as well on the way <!-- s
[youtube:jyl5z9je]
Correct. That love which is obsessive, even more when comes from someone you don´t even know, becomes 10 times more dangerous and life threathening.
"Michael, I love you and only me loves you and anyone who gets close to you will suffer because I love you so much and you need to know, happy with you or unhappy without you but if I don´t have you no other will have you, because my love for you is so pure that i´ll die and kill for you" , "get away from here because I am the one for him, believe it or not, he is mine...." , "I hope that you cough to death" (Quotes from chats and messages)
Possesion and love are not the same thing. Possesion and passion are not the same thing.
For some "fans" looks to be a rat race.
Michael said millions of times "I love you" but I am sure that many people did not understand the pure meaning of the word:
Love is the emotion of strong affection and personal attachment.[1] In philosophical context, love is a virtue representing all of human kindness, compassion, and affection. In religious context, love is not just a virtue, but the basis for all being ("God is love"[2]), and the foundation for all divine law (Golden Rule).
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love<!-- m -->
And those who don´t really understand the meaning and context said in to, lose control, jealousy comes inside the picture, also insecurities, competition and all kind of "human nature" feelings in order to become the strongest in the rat race.
BTW, much love to MJ <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Wow some of those youtube comments just go to show the type of mentality... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
! coño que fastidiosa !
The answer to the problem of stalker fans before any re-education can take place, may be to simply give them medication to raise their level of the neurochemical serotonin... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
On a serious note, I am still looking for the hidden TRUTH in this thread; I think I am hallucinating at the moment, it feels like too much Sun!
With L.O.V.E
Una mosca cojonera decimos en mi tierra <!-- s
(a sticky fly, as we say in my country)
Like you TheRunningGirl I was wonderin what are the many good points....I need to re-read...
With L.O.V.E[/quote]
I agree with the article.
I am hallucinating also, I did not understand what you mean <!-- s
With L.O.V.E
Do you think about someone in particular? Or maybe that it's better to not try to find out...
Of course he is! look at your signature!! it´s him!!! <!-- s
It's very clear, he looks at her, points at her and clearly says "Back off, dont come any closer". 3:50
[youtube:2xp11qpb]
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."This situation in video happened in 2007.
If one of the reasons for MJ hoaxing his death was to get rid of "flea" It´s quite sad <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
After knowing about the "flea and tic" effect, this pic has a new meaning to me.
Is Tohme is protecting Michael instead of mobbing him up?
During my search, I found a link that lead me to another forum and I saw this post:
Are you kidding????, a 50 year old woman organizing a gang to spy on others???
This can´t be true <!-- s
Having too much free time aren´t we? <!-- s
What can they get out of "spying" others in twitter or myspace?
This looks like a task taking place on the 2nd grade of school <!-- s
<!-- m -->http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/20 ... chive.html<!-- m -->