we obviously do put way too much imphasis on celebrity. when you think about it at least some of the reason we have the president that we have today is partly because he was able to some degree turn himself into a celebrity.but maybe one other thing that can be taken from this is to be more mindful to be like that fan who held back and behaved with respect. not only in this kind of situation but in all lifes situations. just my thoughts.
Totally agree with this - well said!
I'd like to add that holding back and behaving with respect should apply to our internet lives as well as our 'real-life' ones. I've been uncomfortable about many of the threads and comments I've read over the months on many websites, which to me have seemed little better than the tabloid gossip we profess to despise. It starts off seeming ok because it's anonymous, it's not face to face, or it's 'investigating', or 'seeking justice', but the effect snowballs and gradually it becomes ok to say what we like about who we like in any situation. Society as a whole has a lot of healing to do. But on the positive side, we can all make a difference - just in our day to day interactions with others 'to be more mindful', as suspicious mind put it. Just my thoughts.
I will never understand the negative even angry reaction of Michael's fans who hate passionately any other fan who breathes the word hoax in their presence. To them he is dead and gone to heaven and to even suggest that he might still be alive, regardless of all the scenarios you might try to present, you are automatically dismissed as a non fan and verbally burned at the stake. It puzzles me to no end. Their minds are closed. How dare we believers do that to Michael and his family. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> What are we doing that they see as so damaging? It's as if they seem to feel he was born to do this; become the greatest, die under unnatural circumstances, and then be worshipped as a "presence" unseen. Not trying to diss anybody, but I have been torn to shreds many a time by those who are totally immersed in the second coming of Michael Jackson. WHAT <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> he didn't die <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> How dare you even suggest that. It is disturbing. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I will never understand the negative even angry reaction of Michael's fans who hate passionately any other fan who breathes the word hoax in their presence. To them he is dead and gone to heaven and to even suggest that he might still be alive, regardless of all the scenarios you might try to present, you are automatically dismissed as a non fan and verbally burned at the stake. It puzzles me to no end. Their minds are closed. How dare we believers do that to Michael and his family. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> What are we doing that they see as so damaging? It's as if they seem to feel he was born to do this; become the greatest, die under unnatural circumstances, and then be worshipped as a "presence" unseen. Not trying to diss anybody, but I have been torn to shreds many a time by those who are totally immersed in the second coming of Michael Jackson. WHAT <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> he didn't die <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> How dare you even suggest that. It is disturbing. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
are you saying there are a multitute of people who hold this concept?
I will never understand the negative even angry reaction of Michael's fans who hate passionately any other fan who breathes the word hoax in their presence. To them he is dead and gone to heaven and to even suggest that he might still be alive, regardless of all the scenarios you might try to present, you are automatically dismissed as a non fan and verbally burned at the stake. It puzzles me to no end. Their minds are closed. How dare we believers do that to Michael and his family. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> What are we doing that they see as so damaging? It's as if they seem to feel he was born to do this; become the greatest, die under unnatural circumstances, and then be worshipped as a "presence" unseen. Not trying to diss anybody, but I have been torn to shreds many a time by those who are totally immersed in the second coming of Michael Jackson. WHAT <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> he didn't die <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> How dare you even suggest that. It is disturbing. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Yeah, no kidding. As a beLIEver, I have to keep it on the DL on Yahoo Answers. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
What do people think about Re-Education in the way we relate to superstar entertainers being as much a part of this process as the other issues that have been widely discussed. By that I mean: this Sabbatical has presented an opportunity to re-assess and consider the position of fans, supporters, admirers and even detractors. Rather than thinking about his personal reasons, its possible that it's to evaluate the way we relate to superstars, celebs and notables in general (not just the awakening of the global issues that we are facing). I want to relate a story, something from about 9 years ago, you didn't have to be there as it has been televised if you watched it. It was an appearance by MJ and of coarse there was a crowd and television crews present and they were all waiting for him to come out on the street. When he did the hysteria erupted with a few over zealous fans getting to push their way to the front of the barricade of security and sure enough they got the "goods"--- the fleeting photo, kiss, few words. A cameraman panned around and focused on this girl who was hanging back, not near the front of the frenzy and she was crying. A guy turned to her and asked her what was wrong, she should be happy that she got to catch a glimpse of MJ and her reply was that she was doing the Respectful thing by hanging back and not barging her way through like the others, yet the Respectful fans never get the opportunities that the hysterical fans get. If that particular woman is on this forum, (and of coarse all the other fans just like her), let me say that IT didn't go unnoticed!!
by the way this has a familiar tone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
What do people think about Re-Education in the way we relate to superstar entertainers being as much a part of this process as the other issues that have been widely discussed. By that I mean: this Sabbatical has presented an opportunity to re-assess and consider the position of fans, supporters, admirers and even detractors. Rather than thinking about his personal reasons, its possible that it's to evaluate the way we relate to superstars, celebs and notables in general (not just the awakening of the global issues that we are facing). I want to relate a story, something from about 9 years ago, you didn't have to be there as it has been televised if you watched it. It was an appearance by MJ and of coarse there was a crowd and television crews present and they were all waiting for him to come out on the street. When he did the hysteria erupted with a few over zealous fans getting to push their way to the front of the barricade of security and sure enough they got the "goods"--- the fleeting photo, kiss, few words. A cameraman panned around and focused on this girl who was hanging back, not near the front of the frenzy and she was crying. A guy turned to her and asked her what was wrong, she should be happy that she got to catch a glimpse of MJ and her reply was that she was doing the Respectful thing by hanging back and not barging her way through like the others, yet the Respectful fans never get the opportunities that the hysterical fans get. If that particular woman is on this forum, (and of coarse all the other fans just like her), let me say that IT didn't go unnoticed!!
by the way this has a familiar tone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Great thread BlackJack, I'm glad you brought this up. And btw, welcome to the forum. I agree with you and think the hoax should and is helping to change the fan hysteria and the relationship fans should have with their idols. But like The Running Girl said, change takes time, like anything else worth doing. But it will happen.
<!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Anything to do with changing behaviours or even "habits" always seems to take a some time; it seems like people need to "rewire" themselves before it actually happens, the cycle of emotions usually goes like this:
1. Excited about the change and look forward to it
2. Start getting some doubts - is it really what we want?
3. Get frustrated - It was much better before
4. Some then decide it is not for them and drop out, others start "seeing the light at the end of the tunnel
5. Those who stick with it love it and become supporters of it.
The diagram below is a little summary of this:
All comments appreciated!
BTW he DID want the fame/status/to be the best at what he does. He made the dreams a reality and has paid the price many times over. He just doesn't want to have to keep on paying!
Totally understood and I agree HE has already paid the price of success many times over!
If MJ wants things to be different, they can be different ... as the French say "Impossible n'est pas Français", let's change it to "Impossible n'est pas MJ"!
Good point Jackie. I am not a fan, never was, never will be. I have been kicked in the face for it many times and a lot of people think I have no right to have a website about someone I'm not a fan of.
The die-hard MJ fans are by far the most demanding I have ever seen. I never understood it and maybe I never will. Mo and I once posted a JOKE that had Kenny, Mike and a fart in it and we were bashed as hell. How dare we post something like that? His fans put him on a giant horse. There is a good side to that (album/DVD/concert ticket sales/support) but a very dark side as well. When I watch videos that involve fans, my jaw is on my keybord. They all will back stab each other just to be able to touch him, I might be from a different planet, but I don't get it.
I don't treat famous people different than non-famous people. I can admire someone that is not famous as well, mostly even more than the famous ones. When people are unreasonable to me or hostile, I will tell them it's not appreciated and I don't care if that is my neighbour, my mother or Michael Jackson for that matter. I am not interested in their personal lives or who they date or divorce because it's none of my business and I don't feel the urge to sandwich them. We are all human and we are all the same and we all deserve to live our lives the way we want to, famous or not. The MJ fans should start to realise that it was not just the media that followed him every step of the way. Who cares what he does in his private life? As if the fans are part of that or something... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Souza its a pleasure to reply to one of your posts for the first time as you and Mo have earned my sincere admiration for your efforts to expose ALL the truths behind the hoax. As a fan of MJ since I was a child I too have never understood the frenzied reaction of most fans it scared me to watch on TV back then so I've no idea what it must've been like for MJ. As someone just as shy as he is I would have been the girl hanging back out of respect. The hysterical mob always made me think of a pack of rabid dogs. It's not normal to behave this way towards another human being so no wonder he said people didn't treat him like one. Time people got a grip on reality and understood how traumatic it was for him-at a concert, sure go nuts. In the street, not acceptable. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore..."fan" comes from "fanatic" right. And how will Michael call us now, let's imagine that he does a little speech "I really want to thank my....glurp..."fans"" or my lovers, admirers, followers, the people who really care for me... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore..."fan" comes from "fanatic" right. And how will Michael call us now, let's imagine that he does a little speech "I really want to thank my....glurp..."fans"" or my lovers, admirers, followers, the people who really care for me... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Well, what about "I would like to thank my HOAXERS"? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore...
Excellent video, thanks pepper. Think different, this is also it. When one stands for his/her ideals/principals he/she doesn't care about what the majority thinks, the social pressure, because the majority is far from being always right. This is also why I love Michael because he is one who stands for his values/principals no matter what people say and that's why I'll always be faithful to him no matter what people say. My love for Michael is not there by meer chance, this is God who puts love in the hearts and God wants me to love Michael. I have tried to tell God to make me forget him at the beginning of this adventure but it didn't work at all! But it feels good and I am so proud and really happy to be here. Well hmmm feels like I'm digressing big time sorry.
This came to my mind "People say I'm not okay cause I love such elementary things" What a world we live in, I feel like things are being reversed more and more, you know we're really in this 666 system. Let's reverse it 999!
Hoaxers, Army why not! But after some reflection maybe that "fans" is not that bad as long as the "anatics" part is cut...Maybe that "Loyal fans" is just good.
Love you more Michael (and it's true because I know you more than you know me, he he...got you).
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore..."fan" comes from "fanatic" right. And how will Michael call us now, let's imagine that he does a little speech "I really want to thank my....glurp..."fans"" or my lovers, admirers, followers, the people who really care for me... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
At the risk of being misunderstood, I like the term disciple. I do not mean to worship and worship blindly - that's more like a devotee. "A disciple is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure."
I have always loved Michael Jackson for his talent, his music, his heart, his generosity, his intellect, his spirituality, his innocence, his vulnerability... At one point recently, I wish I had been a super fan because I thought, maybe this way, I would have met him but it hadn't occurred to me to join a fan club or show up for this and that and claw my way to the front. I envy the women who've been brought on stage during MJ's performances because of the opportunity to just be that close for even a fleeting second. It just seems that my respectful position didn't allow me to meet him. I should have been aggressive, I thought.
But, it's just not me. I can't say that fans miss the message - I know many don't miss what he's trying to say - but MJ's light is so dazzling bright you can get caught-up and literally go into a frenzy. I get it. It's like rapture. Perhaps the very nature of the withdrawal/disappearance immediately changes that dynamic and maybe that act alone will shift our consciousness and allow us to be ready for the BAM and changed forevermore....
But my point is this. Maybe disciple is too strong if people automatically get the wrong connotation. Michael isn't pretending to be God although he is God-like and he wouldn't want to say "these are my disciples" and I'm not a brooding person who stays in my head - I like to play (do disciples play?? <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> but when you listen to Michael talk or you listen intently to his music from his childhood to now, it seems to me that it is hard to ignore the message. I've never been able to ignore it because there is so much wisdom and clarity and knowing that you are in the presence of greatness and vast LOVE should immediately signal HONOR and RESPECT. Respect for the message, the person, their space, privacy, etc.
I think if we, or if fans of celebrities, could understand the essence of what they are truly attracted to when drawn to that type of light, we might be able to calm down and have more REVERANCE. <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> Not just for the person and their light we're drawn to, but for the moment that we're allowed to have because God thought so much of us He allowed us to see a reflection of ourselves personified in someone like Michael Jackson.
MJ represents our collective genius as human spiritual beings if we'd only appreciate ourselves more.
I don't quite know how but I think about it a great deal and we've got to take back our power. I can only do that one person at a time starting with me and Michael has always been one of my greatest teachers. I share what I learn from him with others and I've had some of my friends think differently or more deeply about Michael because I make them listen to an interview or speech or lyrics -- really hear them. Or even listen to how magnificently he mixes music and understand the genius it takes to do that. I mean, Michael is the sexiest man alive to me but seeing him as someone who is here to teach me something -- and perhaps learn from someone like me too, just makes me more mindful. I want to revere my teachers and as a teacher I have felt revered, in a respectful way, by my students. We usually respect our teachers and give them their space.
<!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: --> Let's recast Michael as not just celebrity, but TEACHER. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
After all, the Dalai Lama, (as an example of a great teacher walking the earth today), is revered by millions. People wait for hours to be in his presence and hear his teachings. People are devoted to him and some are fanatical (and he does require bodyguards), but rarely is he caught almost stampeded. And this is because his followers see him as mentor, teacher, wise figure. Michael is these things too , but often we let the fame make us forget that. This we can change.
I thought about this for awhile and it brought to mind how Michael's hardcore fans by and large believe he is dead, vehemently, and are avid about denouncing the hoax and believers. It occurred to me some months ago that he has made seemingly little effort to change their minds and so he appears to be hoaxing them as well. Purposeful?
You could almost look at it as he is hoaxing the frenzied fans too along with the media, while exposing himself to those who would be more likely to sit back and observe (certain hoaxers), rather then jump into the chaos head first.
Reminds me of Klein's, pee in a cup at parties, story.
Possibly off topic but it came to mind.
So will that change? It might. I have talked to some hard core MJ fans that when pushed: "well WHAT IF Michael hoaxed his death, that would be great, right?" and by and large the response is ANGER. They would be FURIOUS with him and say he is an A%^H&*@ for doing that ("lying") to THEM (oh and his kids)". Shocking but not uncommon. The emotion it evokes is very raw and deep and probably masking something else they have going on, some dark inner void they fill with Michael (I'm not judging).
Is this to say that when faced with it some will change their tune and weep with joy? Of course. But I think he would almost certainly have to be aware that he WILL lose some of his hardest hardcore fans over this, when they finally realize he is NOT the person they think he is and they do NOT accept it... and it's entirely possible he's perfectly ok with that.
So true. Michael totally knows which "fans" he appreciates and which he avoids. He has designated TII as being "For the fans", and TII is in two levels--the surface concept of a rehearsal, but also a deeper level as a treasure chest of hoax clues. Because of his creative genius, he will always do what he is called to do, wants to do, and is okay with the chips falling where they may. He follows no one, but only leads. He has always somehow masterfully intertwined poetry, comedy, compassion, mystery, and if people can't keep up or grasp all of it, that's too bad, because he's already moving on the next creative plans. Instead of spending their time waiting outside his gates, maybe they should spend more time with their computers, ipods, following the clues he has put out. If they would get angry when Michael comes back alive, it shows they didn't really know him because he's fortold the hoax scenario throughout his work. I mean were Jesus' disciples angry at Him when they saw Him alive again? Sometimes I wonder if you get too close to the source you get blinded, dazzled, dazed and can't see properly or don't have a balanced perspective. The expression "Your love blinds you" fits. They say they know him so well, but somehow have missed his overall message and long-term plan--the hoax, something so blatantly abundantly clear to those of us who quietly study, observe, compare, love, and never give up beLIEving.
I've never told people I'm a fan of MJ's because it's gotten such a negative feel to the word. I agree that disciple, follower, true friends is more correct to describe those who deeply admire and care about him, but who have his best interests at heart. This is a good topic because it gets at the core of the bridge between the man and the ones he creates/sings/dances/performs for. I have read other articles where they have said it is a symbiotic relationship. He needs us and we need him. The press used him, and he used the press. You can see in the 'History' video that MJ knows that fan adulation is part of what goes with fame, and fame writes a person into recorded/remembered history. I really enjoyed each of the flavors of the thoughts on this thread. SoldierofLOVE this comment caught my eye especially.
when you listen to Michael talk or you listen intently to his music from his childhood to now, it seems to me that it is hard to ignore the message. I've never been able to ignore it because there is so much wisdom and clarity and knowing that you are in the presence of greatness and vast LOVE should immediately signal HONOR and RESPECT.
I do feel a sense of quiet joy just thinking about him, and feel so happy that I'm part of this historical event, thankful to be here. I would also be the girl who held back in the crowd, because I'm not an aggressive person, and because he has said many times that the crazy fans have hurt him, frightened him, and taken simple pleasures of going to a store from him. Rather than owning a hair on his head (if that's why fans grab at his hair--ouch! <!-- s --><!-- s --> ), I'm satisfied seeing him up close in all his magnificance on my screen <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> and listening to him crooning in my ears as I walk along <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I truly hope he's enjoying himself in his masterpiece as it unfolds, and wish him much peace and love, as I do for all of you here. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I can agree with some of you guys. I am not as agressive either. xD Upon meeting MJ I would be awfully bashful I think. I mean I would speak in a good amount of SYLLABLES like "Hiii. Nice to meet you", lol <!-- s --><!-- s --> but I'd almost be speechless. =]
As for the term "fan". I agree it can be used too much sometimes or in a bad light. I think, for those who don't like the term "fan" because of the negative connotations behind it can use the word "Appreciator". This is a word I have used in my profile here (with "fan") and on the other hoax forum(s), I believe. =D
Well! The word sympathiser has somewhat got its appeals, it feels positive and friendly, shows the desire to support without the negative connotations of a Fan-atic. We could shorten it to create a unique word, use only to describe MJ new breed of followers... We could be the Sympas for example...
On a more serious notes, I was thinking that the type of education we are discussing here, is more about values and culture rather than knowledge based education. It is about people living by a new set of values or redefining the meaning of some of those values in other words behaving differently.
If people were able to see through the eye of the media how to behave i.e understand MJ expectations and be shown what it means, it would work I think.
So again we are back to the media messing things up for everybody but having the potential to really make the difference if in the right hands!!!
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore..."fan" comes from "fanatic" right. And how will Michael call us now, let's imagine that he does a little speech "I really want to thank my....glurp..."fans"" or my lovers, admirers, followers, the people who really care for me... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Well, Sarahli, I'm taking your post seriously
I like the word "brothers" though!!!!!!
Good point Jackie. I am not a fan, never was, never will be. I have been kicked in the face for it many times and a lot of people think I have no right to have a website about someone I'm not a fan of.
The die-hard MJ fans are by far the most demanding I have ever seen. I never understood it and maybe I never will. Mo and I once posted a JOKE that had Kenny, Mike and a fart in it and we were bashed as hell. How dare we post something like that? His fans put him on a giant horse. There is a good side to that (album/DVD/concert ticket sales/support) but a very dark side as well. When I watch videos that involve fans, my jaw is on my keybord. They all will back stab each other just to be able to touch him, I might be from a different planet, but I don't get it.
I don't treat famous people different than non-famous people. I can admire someone that is not famous as well, mostly even more than the famous ones. When people are unreasonable to me or hostile, I will tell them it's not appreciated and I don't care if that is my neighbour, my mother or Michael Jackson for that matter. I am not interested in their personal lives or who they date or divorce because it's none of my business and I don't feel the urge to sandwich them. We are all human and we are all the same and we all deserve to live our lives the way we want to, famous or not. The MJ fans should start to realise that it was not just the media that followed him every step of the way. Who cares what he does in his private life? As if the fans are part of that or something... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Well Souza,
I love your post. Actually I never had the courage to write what you have written because I am also not a "fan" of Michael and I was afraid to be humiliated by his fans as I don't really belong here. But I must say I always felt sorry for Michael, the human being. And when I first found out about the Hoax I was not astonished at all. The man wants to have peace in his life. He just wants to have a normal life like you and me. What's wrong about that?? That"s why I thought he would never come back. But now I know more than 5 months ago.
I guess MJ is right. people need education. They need to respect artists. We are all human beings.
So let's remember >Will You be there< ........but I'm only human.......
If people could just listen....
Maybe that we should invent/create a new word for people like me who really love Michael the artist and the person, meaning the people who care for him and are respectful of his personal/private life/privacy, the shy ones like me who wouldn't even dare to call his name in a crowded/or empty place..because now I really don't know how to say things anymore..."fan" comes from "fanatic" right. And how will Michael call us now, let's imagine that he does a little speech "I really want to thank my....glurp..."fans"" or my lovers, admirers, followers, the people who really care for me... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Well, Sarahli, I'm taking your post seriously
I like the word "brothers" though!!!!!!
I really want to thank my "brothers and sisters"
We are all like on big family now, aren't we!
Blessings
Diggyon
Yes brothers and sisters is good. Blessings to you. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Good point Jackie. I am not a fan, never was, never will be. I have been kicked in the face for it many times and a lot of people think I have no right to have a website about someone I'm not a fan of.
The die-hard MJ fans are by far the most demanding I have ever seen. I never understood it and maybe I never will. Mo and I once posted a JOKE that had Kenny, Mike and a fart in it and we were bashed as hell. How dare we post something like that? His fans put him on a giant horse. There is a good side to that (album/DVD/concert ticket sales/support) but a very dark side as well. When I watch videos that involve fans, my jaw is on my keybord. They all will back stab each other just to be able to touch him, I might be from a different planet, but I don't get it.
Dito! I want to add that I really wonder if the hard core fans realize that, while screaming and shouting about the media and the paparazzi chasing Mike and making his life hell, they are actually guilty of the very same behavior... I honestly don't think hard core fans realize how absurd their behavior is.
It is about time that fans realize that what an artists does is his work. I never see anyone chase the butcher or the owner of the local supermarket after their job is done at 6PM, have you? When I visit a "normal" friend during the evening I don't find fans with photo cameras hiding in his garden, but when I visit my friends who are artists I get seriously pissed off with fans for watching and photographing every move we make in the house and driving by their house all evening long just to try and get an "inside view" or more desirable, a picture.
I have been beaten and kicked by over jealous fans on nights we went out after a gig, just because I was talking to their idol and he didn't pay immediate attention to the fans who chased us from bar to bar. I witnessed how hard core fans cut off hair from their idols, how they pulled hair out of the heads of their idols. I have watched them show the most absurd and disturbing behavior, just to draw the attention from their idol. I feel pretty much intimidated by that behavior, so imagine how the artists must feel about it as they have to deal with it every single day.
It's about time that fans who show this kind of behavior come to their senses, and immediately cut that crap. Don't blame other people for the exact same thing you are doing yourself. Those fans created a prison for Michael Jackson just like the media, who they hate so much, did. I wonder how those fans would feel if they'd became the victim of fans like that.
Don't do to others what you don't want others do to you.
Good point Jackie. I am not a fan, never was, never will be. I have been kicked in the face for it many times and a lot of people think I have no right to have a website about someone I'm not a fan of.
The die-hard MJ fans are by far the most demanding I have ever seen. I never understood it and maybe I never will. Mo and I once posted a JOKE that had Kenny, Mike and a fart in it and we were bashed as hell. How dare we post something like that? His fans put him on a giant horse. There is a good side to that (album/DVD/concert ticket sales/support) but a very dark side as well. When I watch videos that involve fans, my jaw is on my keybord. They all will back stab each other just to be able to touch him, I might be from a different planet, but I don't get it.
Dito! I want to add that I really wonder if the hard core fans realize that, while screaming and shouting about the media and the paparazzi chasing Mike and making his life hell, they are actually guilty of the very same behavior... I honestly don't think hard core fans realize how absurd their behavior is.
It is about time that fans realize that what an artists does is his work. I never see anyone chase the butcher or the owner of the local supermarket after their job is done at 6PM, have you? When I visit a "normal" friend during the evening I don't find fans with photo cameras hiding in his garden, but when I visit my friends who are artists I get seriously pissed off with fans for watching and photographing every move we make in the house and driving by their house all evening long just to try and get an "inside view" or more desirable, a picture.
I have been beaten and kicked by over jealous fans on nights we went out after a gig, just because I was talking to their idol and he didn't pay immediate attention to the fans who chased us from bar to bar. I witnessed how hard core fans cut off hair from their idols, how they pulled hair out of the heads of their idols. I have watched them show the most absurd and disturbing behavior, just to draw the attention from their idol. I feel pretty much intimidated by that behavior, so imagine how the artists must feel about it as they have to deal with it every single day.
It's about time that fans who show this kind of behavior come to their senses, and immediately cut that crap. Don't blame other people for the exact same thing you are doing yourself. Those fans created a prison for Michael Jackson just like the media, who they hate so much, did. I wonder how those fans would feel if they'd became the victim of fans like that.
Don't do to others what you don't want others do to you.
What do people think about Re-Education in the way we relate to superstar entertainers being as much a part of this process as the other issues that have been widely discussed. By that I mean: this Sabbatical has presented an opportunity to re-assess and consider the position of fans, supporters, admirers and even detractors. Rather than thinking about his personal reasons, its possible that it's to evaluate the way we relate to superstars, celebs and notables in general (not just the awakening of the global issues that we are facing). I want to relate a story, something from about 9 years ago, you didn't have to be there as it has been televised if you watched it. It was an appearance by MJ and of coarse there was a crowd and television crews present and they were all waiting for him to come out on the street. When he did the hysteria erupted with a few over zealous fans getting to push their way to the front of the barricade of security and sure enough they got the "goods"--- the fleeting photo, kiss, few words. A cameraman panned around and focused on this girl who was hanging back, not near the front of the frenzy and she was crying. A guy turned to her and asked her what was wrong, she should be happy that she got to catch a glimpse of MJ and her reply was that she was doing the Respectful thing by hanging back and not barging her way through like the others, yet the Respectful fans never get the opportunities that the hysterical fans get. If that particular woman is on this forum, (and of coarse all the other fans just like her), let me say that IT didn't go unnoticed!!
[youtube:2p51743q]
Hmmm <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
This is it? lol
This was in Sept. 2001 so close to the date of 9/11.
I like the pop up comments on this video, lol
Yes, it does speak for itself.
Mass hysteria at it's finest.
How can anyone deny that Michael was in control of people and commanded armies?
Can NOT, the evidence is there in everything he has done.
For the very reason that Michael is in control and has created this world of his with his "fans" being in the millions... it is my opinion that if he created this fame monster he must also be responsible for killing it.
Or as you put it re-education.
Peace
Comments
I'd like to add that holding back and behaving with respect should apply to our internet lives as well as our 'real-life' ones. I've been uncomfortable about many of the threads and comments I've read over the months on many websites, which to me have seemed little better than the tabloid gossip we profess to despise. It starts off seeming ok because it's anonymous, it's not face to face, or it's 'investigating', or 'seeking justice', but the effect snowballs and gradually it becomes ok to say what we like about who we like in any situation. Society as a whole has a lot of healing to do. But on the positive side, we can all make a difference - just in our day to day interactions with others 'to be more mindful', as suspicious mind put it. Just my thoughts.
are you saying there are a multitute of people who hold this concept?
Yeah, no kidding. As a beLIEver, I have to keep it on the DL on Yahoo Answers. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
by the way this has a familiar tone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I agree. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
1. Excited about the change and look forward to it
2. Start getting some doubts - is it really what we want?
3. Get frustrated - It was much better before
4. Some then decide it is not for them and drop out, others start "seeing the light at the end of the tunnel
5. Those who stick with it love it and become supporters of it.
The diagram below is a little summary of this:
Totally understood and I agree HE has already paid the price of success many times over!
If MJ wants things to be different, they can be different ... as the French say "Impossible n'est pas Français", let's change it to "Impossible n'est pas MJ"!
With L.O.V.E
The die-hard MJ fans are by far the most demanding I have ever seen. I never understood it and maybe I never will. Mo and I once posted a JOKE that had Kenny, Mike and a fart in it and we were bashed as hell. How dare we post something like that? His fans put him on a giant horse. There is a good side to that (album/DVD/concert ticket sales/support) but a very dark side as well. When I watch videos that involve fans, my jaw is on my keybord. They all will back stab each other just to be able to touch him, I might be from a different planet, but I don't get it.
I don't treat famous people different than non-famous people. I can admire someone that is not famous as well, mostly even more than the famous ones. When people are unreasonable to me or hostile, I will tell them it's not appreciated and I don't care if that is my neighbour, my mother or Michael Jackson for that matter. I am not interested in their personal lives or who they date or divorce because it's none of my business and I don't feel the urge to sandwich them. We are all human and we are all the same and we all deserve to live our lives the way we want to, famous or not. The MJ fans should start to realise that it was not just the media that followed him every step of the way. Who cares what he does in his private life? As if the fans are part of that or something... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Don't take my post too seriously. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Well, what about "I would like to thank my HOAXERS"? <!-- s
Your post makes me think of this ...
[youtube:w1ica6yh]
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI8RTbJLTbY<!-- m -->
This came to my mind "People say I'm not okay cause I love such elementary things" What a world we live in, I feel like things are being reversed more and more, you know we're really in this 666 system. Let's reverse it 999!
Hoaxers, Army why not! But after some reflection maybe that "fans" is not that bad as long as the "anatics" part is cut...Maybe that "Loyal fans" is just good.
Love you more Michael (and it's true because I know you more than you know me, he he...got you).
At the risk of being misunderstood, I like the term disciple. I do not mean to worship and worship blindly - that's more like a devotee. "A disciple is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure."
I have always loved Michael Jackson for his talent, his music, his heart, his generosity, his intellect, his spirituality, his innocence, his vulnerability... At one point recently, I wish I had been a super fan because I thought, maybe this way, I would have met him but it hadn't occurred to me to join a fan club or show up for this and that and claw my way to the front. I envy the women who've been brought on stage during MJ's performances because of the opportunity to just be that close for even a fleeting second. It just seems that my respectful position didn't allow me to meet him. I should have been aggressive, I thought.
But, it's just not me. I can't say that fans miss the message - I know many don't miss what he's trying to say - but MJ's light is so dazzling bright you can get caught-up and literally go into a frenzy. I get it. It's like rapture. Perhaps the very nature of the withdrawal/disappearance immediately changes that dynamic and maybe that act alone will shift our consciousness and allow us to be ready for the BAM and changed forevermore....
But my point is this. Maybe disciple is too strong if people automatically get the wrong connotation. Michael isn't pretending to be God although he is God-like and he wouldn't want to say "these are my disciples" and I'm not a brooding person who stays in my head - I like to play (do disciples play?? <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> but when you listen to Michael talk or you listen intently to his music from his childhood to now, it seems to me that it is hard to ignore the message. I've never been able to ignore it because there is so much wisdom and clarity and knowing that you are in the presence of greatness and vast LOVE should immediately signal HONOR and RESPECT. Respect for the message, the person, their space, privacy, etc.
I think if we, or if fans of celebrities, could understand the essence of what they are truly attracted to when drawn to that type of light, we might be able to calm down and have more REVERANCE. <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> Not just for the person and their light we're drawn to, but for the moment that we're allowed to have because God thought so much of us He allowed us to see a reflection of ourselves personified in someone like Michael Jackson.
MJ represents our collective genius as human spiritual beings if we'd only appreciate ourselves more.
I don't quite know how but I think about it a great deal and we've got to take back our power. I can only do that one person at a time starting with me and Michael has always been one of my greatest teachers. I share what I learn from him with others and I've had some of my friends think differently or more deeply about Michael because I make them listen to an interview or speech or lyrics -- really hear them. Or even listen to how magnificently he mixes music and understand the genius it takes to do that. I mean, Michael is the sexiest man alive to me but seeing him as someone who is here to teach me something -- and perhaps learn from someone like me too, just makes me more mindful. I want to revere my teachers and as a teacher I have felt revered, in a respectful way, by my students. We usually respect our teachers and give them their space.
<!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: --> Let's recast Michael as not just celebrity, but TEACHER. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
After all, the Dalai Lama, (as an example of a great teacher walking the earth today), is revered by millions. People wait for hours to be in his presence and hear his teachings. People are devoted to him and some are fanatical (and he does require bodyguards), but rarely is he caught almost stampeded. And this is because his followers see him as mentor, teacher, wise figure. Michael is these things too , but often we let the fame make us forget that. This we can change.
I've never told people I'm a fan of MJ's because it's gotten such a negative feel to the word. I agree that disciple, follower, true friends is more correct to describe those who deeply admire and care about him, but who have his best interests at heart. This is a good topic because it gets at the core of the bridge between the man and the ones he creates/sings/dances/performs for. I have read other articles where they have said it is a symbiotic relationship. He needs us and we need him. The press used him, and he used the press. You can see in the 'History' video that MJ knows that fan adulation is part of what goes with fame, and fame writes a person into recorded/remembered history. I really enjoyed each of the flavors of the thoughts on this thread. SoldierofLOVE this comment caught my eye especially. I do feel a sense of quiet joy just thinking about him, and feel so happy that I'm part of this historical event, thankful to be here. I would also be the girl who held back in the crowd, because I'm not an aggressive person, and because he has said many times that the crazy fans have hurt him, frightened him, and taken simple pleasures of going to a store from him. Rather than owning a hair on his head (if that's why fans grab at his hair--ouch! <!-- s
As for the term "fan". I agree it can be used too much sometimes or in a bad light. I think, for those who don't like the term "fan" because of the negative connotations behind it can use the word "Appreciator". This is a word I have used in my profile here (with "fan") and on the other hoax forum(s), I believe. =D
On a more serious notes, I was thinking that the type of education we are discussing here, is more about values and culture rather than knowledge based education. It is about people living by a new set of values or redefining the meaning of some of those values in other words behaving differently.
If people were able to see through the eye of the media how to behave i.e understand MJ expectations and be shown what it means, it would work I think.
So again we are back to the media messing things up for everybody but having the potential to really make the difference if in the right hands!!!
With L.O.V.E
I like the word "brothers" though!!!!!!
I really want to thank my "brothers and sisters"
We are all like on big family now, aren't we!
Blessings
Diggyon
I love your post. Actually I never had the courage to write what you have written because I am also not a "fan" of Michael and I was afraid to be humiliated by his fans as I don't really belong here. But I must say I always felt sorry for Michael, the human being. And when I first found out about the Hoax I was not astonished at all. The man wants to have peace in his life. He just wants to have a normal life like you and me. What's wrong about that?? That"s why I thought he would never come back. But now I know more than 5 months ago.
I guess MJ is right. people need education. They need to respect artists. We are all human beings.
So let's remember >Will You be there< ........but I'm only human.......
If people could just listen....
Yes brothers and sisters is good. Blessings to you. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Dito! I want to add that I really wonder if the hard core fans realize that, while screaming and shouting about the media and the paparazzi chasing Mike and making his life hell, they are actually guilty of the very same behavior... I honestly don't think hard core fans realize how absurd their behavior is.
It is about time that fans realize that what an artists does is his work. I never see anyone chase the butcher or the owner of the local supermarket after their job is done at 6PM, have you? When I visit a "normal" friend during the evening I don't find fans with photo cameras hiding in his garden, but when I visit my friends who are artists I get seriously pissed off with fans for watching and photographing every move we make in the house and driving by their house all evening long just to try and get an "inside view" or more desirable, a picture.
I have been beaten and kicked by over jealous fans on nights we went out after a gig, just because I was talking to their idol and he didn't pay immediate attention to the fans who chased us from bar to bar. I witnessed how hard core fans cut off hair from their idols, how they pulled hair out of the heads of their idols. I have watched them show the most absurd and disturbing behavior, just to draw the attention from their idol. I feel pretty much intimidated by that behavior, so imagine how the artists must feel about it as they have to deal with it every single day.
It's about time that fans who show this kind of behavior come to their senses, and immediately cut that crap. Don't blame other people for the exact same thing you are doing yourself. Those fans created a prison for Michael Jackson just like the media, who they hate so much, did. I wonder how those fans would feel if they'd became the victim of fans like that.
Don't do to others what you don't want others do to you.
Very well said ladies.
[youtube:2p51743q]
Hmmm <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
This is it? lol
This was in Sept. 2001 so close to the date of 9/11.
I like the pop up comments on this video, lol
Yes, it does speak for itself.
Mass hysteria at it's finest.
How can anyone deny that Michael was in control of people and commanded armies?
Can NOT, the evidence is there in everything he has done.
For the very reason that Michael is in control and has created this world of his with his "fans" being in the millions... it is my opinion that if he created this fame monster he must also be responsible for killing it.
Or as you put it re-education.
Peace