Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
This is interesting, I talked about this personally with people, and the answers I got from both sides; Die hard fans and "I could not care less about MJ" folks, are the same in resume.
Reasons why MJ is dead
-The media reported the event world wide
-MJ was sick and a drug addict
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out.
-We saw the gold casket
-There are police and court involved
-His family is looking for the murderer but MJ paid for it. So sad, soooooo sad.
Common phrases I´ve been told:
-His family wont lie to the world about something like this
-His mother was destroyed
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help
-The police and the whole court and legal system are not going to fake something like this
-Michael Jackson is dead, deal with it, come back to reality, you are going to end up like Elvis fans <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
-People saying that MJ is alive are just looking for your money
I can go on and on.....
People believe that MJ is dead because his family said so
This is the email I received on 12/11 from the MJJC site:
Dear Members
In light of the state of emergency here and from what I see as the total destruction of my MJ community I am now asking every member to report any form of arguing or hating on another member.
As of now instant 10 day bans for anyone caught destroying threads or caught arguing/hating on someone else due to their belief on this album.
You will not destroy MJJC just because you support the album or not.
You have beef with Sony GO TO THEIR SITE and cause havoc.
At this point I do not even care if I am left with a hand full of members by the end of next week.
Me and my team will prevail in saving years of our hard work to create one of the best MJ communities there are.
This is the first step in our state of emergency.
If it does not stop step two will be announced.
Regards
Team MJJC
Feels like the big interest at the moment is about the album being fake or not...
This is interesting, I talked about this personally with people, and the answers I got from both sides; Die hard fans and "I could not care less about MJ" folks, are the same in resume.
Reasons why MJ is dead
-The media reported the event world wide
-MJ was sick and a drug addict
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out.
-We saw the gold casket
-There are police and court involved
-His family is looking for the murderer but MJ paid for it. So sad, soooooo sad.
Common phrases I´ve been told:
-His family wont lie to the world about something like this
-His mother was destroyed
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help
-The police and the whole court and legal system are not going to fake something like this
-Michael Jackson is dead, deal with it, come back to reality, you are going to end up like Elvis fans <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
-People saying that MJ is alive are just looking for your money
I can go on and on.....
People believe that MJ is dead because his family said so
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out. --> Don't know where they've seen them crying their hearts out, 'cause I haven't, until Oprah and there Katherine shed tears indeed....
- His mother was destroyed - She didn't look like that, going shopping 3 days after her son's "death" and looking like it was just another day. No swollen eyes, no tired face, no sad expression that would show her grief. Nothing. Words for me don't count if you don't show them.Words ca be faked but feelings can't be faked and also look natural as you would really feel them.
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help - This is very strange to hear, because the kids were actually smilling at their father "funeral", Prince also making gum baloons and looking rather extremelly bored. None of them had the slightest trace of suffering on their faces. Trying to look sad doesn't actually look natural if yu don't actually feel what you are showing.
yes, I sometimes loose so much hope seeing everything that the family does to reminds us always how he was killed, how Murray is the fall guy but there are many, how SONY releases fraud songs, yes, I loose hope sometimes.. I feel like in such moments I am just a crazy person who believes in fools. I think I'll never have inside peace until I see him indeed there in my face
This is interesting, I talked about this personally with people, and the answers I got from both sides; Die hard fans and "I could not care less about MJ" folks, are the same in resume.
Reasons why MJ is dead
-The media reported the event world wide
-MJ was sick and a drug addict
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out.
-We saw the gold casket
-There are police and court involved
-His family is looking for the murderer but MJ paid for it. So sad, soooooo sad.
Common phrases I´ve been told:
-His family wont lie to the world about something like this
-His mother was destroyed
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help
-The police and the whole court and legal system are not going to fake something like this
-Michael Jackson is dead, deal with it, come back to reality, you are going to end up like Elvis fans <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
-People saying that MJ is alive are just looking for your money
I can go on and on.....
People believe that MJ is dead because his family said so
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out. --> Don't know where they've seen them crying their hearts out, 'cause I haven't, until Oprah and there Katherine shed tears indeed....
- His mother was destroyed - She didn't look like that, going shopping 3 days after her son's "death" and looking like it was just another day. No swollen eyes, no tired face, no sad expression that would show her grief. Nothing. Words for me don't count if you don't show them.Words ca be faked but feelings can't be faked and also look natural as you would really feel them.
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help - This is very strange to hear, because the kids were actually smilling at their father "funeral", Prince also making gum baloons and looking rather extremelly bored. None of them had the slightest trace of suffering on their faces. Trying to look sad doesn't actually look natural if yu don't actually feel what you are showing.
yes, I sometimes loose so much hop seeing everything that the family does to reminds us always how he was killed, how Murray is the fall guy but there are many, how SONY releases fraud songs, yes, I loose hope sometimes.. I feel like in such moments I am just a crazy person who believes in fools.
The funny part is that when one explains that the family looked more upset than sad then one is labelled as a "non sensitive or non empathic" <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
The arguments are usually "Look at his mother" , "Look at his kids" , "Have you seen the funeral" , "The man is DEAD, the whole world saw his memorial and funeral, D.E.A.D, deal with it"
There are many reasons why they don't believe Michael is alive, but I think first comes that the non-believers have a different image of Michael: Michael the victim, the angel, controled by evil people, unable to run his own life, naive to the point of stupidity, trusting the wrong people......
I think it would be great for them to read "The magic and the madness" ........ even if I don't know for sure if Randy's Michael is the real Michael..... but for sure he is not pictured like a victim at all.....
They don't know that if Michael doesn't want to do something he is capable of saying NO.
They don't know that if you mess with Michael you're OUT.
They don't know he learned about PR since he was 12.....
I think they don't know the man behind the mask.......
I so agree with you. This image of a man who was a victim does not fit the person who was able to become the King of Pop. Sometimes I think MJ may be responsible for some of the thoughts of him being a vicitm. Maybe this was his way of manipulating things. But regardless, he's no victim. Randy may just be playing his role. One thing is for sure, anybody who really knew MJ would tell you he was not somebody you could walk all over. And he was not stupid enoungh to take a drug which he knew could kill him in his sleep, and be in fear of someone killing him.
Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
That's pretty easy to answer - they don't listen (they only hear) and they do not see (they only look)! They have screamed at the believers that THEY KNOW MJ and MJ WOULD NEVER DO THIS TO HIS FAMILY OR FRIENDS!
Now in all fairness there have been some non believers who would actually listen and would ask questions but something changed along the way and now even those few have turned off all posibilities of listening.
I have always tried to look at this hoax from both sides and yes it is easy to see why they feel this way; as mentioned in earlier posts the media said so, so it must be true. The family is grieving so it must be true. But if they would really take the time and actually see what is in front of them the light would be so bright they wouldn't be able to ignore the possibility any longer!
Overwhelming sadness/grief could also play a part in this. They were in so much pain (still are) and that was fueled with Murray, the media and the family saying murder and then TINI got into it the only thing they could do was hold onto the one thing that was left of Michael and that was to keep his legacy going. Any other thought wouldn't make sense to them, they had to keep MJ alive and by keeping his legacy alive meant he was alive - even though it was only in their hearts.
But I do have to commend the ones who have upheld his legacy and have written letters, signed petitions, been at each court hearing........because they are showing him the love that they know how to give.
I didn't know where to post this, but I wanted to share. It sort of goes along with bec's comment on the fact that you don't bring up the hoax in certain circles.
I teach 4th grade, and one day, during free time, there were a group of my students hanging out and I heard them talking about Michael Jackson. I was so completely surprised! I asked them what they were talking about, and they said that they were fans of his. It really brought a smile to my face. Another 4th grader in the other classroom actually wrote a report on Michael Jackson.....of course, I was thinking..."Well, let me tell you a few things you might not know about Michael....." <!-- s --><!-- s -->
But, I haven't said anything to my students about the hoax. I'm not sure it's my place to tell them. I don't know. All the teachers in my school know that I think he's alive, though. Some of them find it interesting and quite plausible. Others just laugh at me. I keep telling them.....
"Wait for it....then....BAM!!"
Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
That's pretty easy to answer - they don't listen (they only hear) and they do not see (they only look)! They have screamed at the believers that THEY KNOW MJ and MJ WOULD NEVER DO THIS TO HIS FAMILY OR FRIENDS!
Those different reactions have to do with information, communication, sender - receiver, black box, perception, mind-set, conclusions and taking decisions on what a personal life should look like. Those reactions are the outcome of a string of single decisions.
In addition, it comes to allowing new aspects and change in your life - and that's the very hard one.
The "predefined" mind-set happens in everyday life and is not only Michael-related.
Negative judgement "they would never..." speaks of a personal (and influenced) decision where we have placed people on our life chess board in that moment - either we crown them king or we chase them as pawn. A king "cannot" hurt his family, entourage and fans, this hurter (or even liar) must be a pawn then and Michael "cannot" be a simple pawn (human being). This is not foreseen in the cast (mind-set).
The lady with pink underwear on her clothesline may be the most lovely woman in my neighbourhood - but as I don't wear pink underwear (maybe I even envy her and would love to?), this does not fit into my life concept / chess board and thus the person having it on her clothesline does not fit into my life and must be a pawn to chase.
A life grid is nothing bad, don't get me wrong on this one. Somehow we must find an orientation on how to live, who to meet, what to do. You run from fire and it is right to do so. However, it is also fact that values and virtues are being eliminated from our orientation scales. Again, it is about personal decisions, what we cling to and where we are open to let fresh air in. Maybe it's time for purple underwear and having a tea with that lovely lady?
As to mind-set, it may be surprising that some of the folks on this forum are not fans.
Some discovered Michael on the incident of his disappearance, being driven by curiosity or the wish to "want to know". Are non-fans more open-minded or less "pre-set"? Isn't it a very individual matter, not relating to being fan or non-fan?
There is a lot more to this. I bet there could be pages and pages about "why" and "how" different the reactions are. Basically it is human nature and errors of logical thinking that are common. That's where illusions and magic and make.believe are made possible.
(I think most of the beLIEvers are not aware that by promoting the word "beLIEve" they themselves are actually spreading a very visible LIE. They have become part of the illusion - deliberately in addition. It is really human nature to be mistaken.)
In fact Michael's disappearance would be a very interesting global social and psychological study field. I have not heard of an ongoing study yet but I would not surprised at all if there were students and experts working on some.
Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
BJ, i am on the MJ site too and there you can't say anything about the hoax, they will say to you that Michael would never do this to his children, to his family...They would treat u like you are a crazy person to think he is alive.They don't know what they are missing of not believing he is alive !I was one of them at the beginning , but i never said anything rude to the ones who believed from the start that there is a possibility that MJ could still be alive.I was afraid to believe this but i made a big mistake , I am sure he is still with us.I opened my eyes .Sometimes i have my doubts of course, but I'm always coming back to the fact that he can't be gone.
ever wonder if we need to examine ourselves about whether we are able to stand by what we believe or whether we are inclined to be pulled in every which direction by the influence of others.make any sense?
To be strong, Faith need to be near to "unshakable" so it does indeed make sense to examine the strength of the underlying beliefs. If those are shaky then so will the Faith!
Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax?
...somehow reminds me of the film Inception where we have the concept of "a dream within a dream within a dream" and it takes a number of layers of inter-related dreams to really "plant" the idea.
Following the same logic, we have the concept of multiple hoaxes being linked to each other to unveil the truth--->
If MJ "died" on june 25th 2009 is one of the 3 hoaxes, what are the other 2 and how do they relate to the first one? (Hoax 2: the media is here to inform the public - Hoax 3: ??? )
Am I reading way too much into all of this?
With L.O.V.E
I came into this thread at a part which was the end, now somewhere in the middle, and wondered why so many people were saying they didn't understand the title. When I read the OP, I didn't understand it either. I mean, yes, there are many hoaxes within the very first one, but the OP neither addresses nor suggests ANY of them. Instead, he suggests that MJ is using this adventure as an experiment in people observation. Sort of a "Hide and Watch".
Well, what else is new? He's been doing this for decades, here and there, in physical disguise. I can't remember the first time I heard/ read/ learned that he did this, but I thought he was a nut, until I realized that his "Bigness", prevented people from being, not only themselves with him, but prevented people from being honest in expressing an opinion about his work.
I still believe he is a capital "N" nut, but he is on to something, and it has intrigued me to no end!
One time, his people planned some "meet and greet" over, I think, his first action Pepsi commercial or something. IDK. I can't remember. Too busy burning brain cells over the fact he was doing something to make EVERYone seriously angry ON PURPOSE. Ofttimes the lavish food at these things makes them tolerable while everyone gets together and strokes the artist for his work...Does anyone recall this ? I know I am missing some detail...
Anyway, what does MJ serve his guests? Pepsi and dishes of peanuts. He'd told his people it would be something healthy or something, and, not only that, but there was NO alcohol--not even a little wine, to put his guests out of their hours and hours of misery!! EVERY body was so angry, and dismayed, because MJ NEVER made an appearance, for folks to meet him!
The thing that AMAZES me, is that he actually did walk right into the midst of this angry mob, disguised as an older man, and sought out their honest opinions of this goofball who has blown his own party off! What kind of person WANTS to hear people say mean things about him???
What is more amazing, is, that even though he knows it's how they really feel, and CAN'T slough it off as, "oh, they didn't MEAN it", it does not affect his confidence in himself at all. Forget rhinoceros skin...the guy has mental armor which is otherworldly. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> just think, if everyone was able to be that resistant to criticism; able to believe in themselves so much that no fiery dart could penetrate their peace, or twist their joy into resentment or revenge! War would be over, if everyone felt so secure, so good about themselves that even "Fightin' Words", rolled off like water off the back of a duck! Amazing.
And...of course rumors flew, about the kind of host he was, and that was that...
I also heard this same old man walked about public parks to ask folk what they thought about Michael Jackson....Oh, yeah, he can spot a liar a mile away, because, like Houdini, HE does it best. He has reverse-engineered the Fake, in order to perfect Illusion. I think he was just patronized so much, that the Truth became an obsession, calling for creative intervention. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But he is a nut <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I mean in a comedic sort of way. One would have to be to create an alter ego of himself for 30+ years and present him to the public as real. He created his OWN Pinnocchio(only a big liar whose nose shrinks, not the other way!), and gave him all kinds of personal details, such as his likes and dislikes, how he loves everybody and is shy and sweet and vulnerable, has no love life, lonely, misunderstood, terrifed of his dad, hates the way he looks, and keeps getting surgeries to tweak that, and on and on ...This is Hoax #1, I believe.
Hoax #2 is him being dead. MJ isn't dead, Pinnocchio is! The reason everyone was so upset, and some still are, is because people BELIEVED his Illusion, (HE'S GOOD!!)and will NOT be disillusioned, by people saying he is calculating enough to have planned such a thing. Well...he is. He has "tick tocks" in between the tick tocks everyone else has in their brains. He is a musical and innovative genius. His mind MUST create. Idleness is pain. If you don't think he faked his alter ego's death, go rent "The Elephant Man". I was and am going to strip this movie for folks here, but I have felt some people just can't take it, yet. He IS calculating and doing many complex illusions on purpose! I wouldn't have believed it, if I had not seen this.
Some really delicate psyches associate calculating with evil. He's not evil. He's a joker, a nut. Notice how happy he is when he is doing a prank. I LOVE that ! Tell those unbelievers to try not to take themselves so seriously (if this is hard to take). It is supposed to entertain us, not hurt! This is the BIGGEST Adventure Park the world has ever been IN. We are learning things we needed to know, learning how to see the true and recognize the false everywhere in our environment. Adulthood is ABOUT disillusionment. You are a sitting duck for evil unless you DO put away childish things <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> . Yeah, retain your sweetness, your dreams, your wonder; but open your eyes, and toughen up. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Think: how could that child, Pinnocchio, i.e., "Michael Jackson" put together a Solo, multi billion dollar enterprise and rule the entertainment world, if he was such a delicate pushover, playing with butterflies??????
Hoax#3 is the Chandler thing, either the entire thing or the father's death or something.
Oh, and don't forget another Hoax, not certain which number, though, maybe actually the very first one <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The one where he began to convince people he was becoming lighter skinned. Look at the 80s interview with Ebony/Jet. It always bothered me that Mr. Perfectionist did that interview with makeup only on his face. It HAD to be on purpose. And, get this, one of the things they talk about is MJ doing some remake of the movie, The Elephant Man! Out of the blue! Why waste interview time(pricelessly rare!) talking about some movie he saw?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Naw, they planned this interview down to the last detail!Of course, he sweetly, bashfully says, "oh, no, no, well, maybe, tee hee" LIAR. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
He is doing this NOW. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I submit to you that this Pre-BAD(!!) makeup was a sort of Theatrical Mask to document for his proof, afterwards, the signal "Curtain Up". <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The show had begun...
Its Her what a post! I like it!
Remembers me of someone who told his Mother : "Thank you Ms. Katherine for giving birth to such a crazy kid like Michael Jackson!!" <!-- s --><!-- s -->
That's why we LOVE him so much!
I came into this thread at a part which was the end, now somewhere in the middle, and wondered why so many people were saying they didn't understand the title. When I read the OP, I didn't understand it either. I mean, yes, there are many hoaxes within the very first one, but the OP neither addresses nor suggests ANY of them. Instead, he suggests that MJ is using this adventure as an experiment in people observation. Sort of a "Hide and Watch".
Well, what else is new? He's been doing this for decades, here and there, in physical disguise. I can't remember the first time I heard/ read/ learned that he did this, but I thought he was a nut, until I realized that his "Bigness", prevented people from being, not only themselves with him, but prevented people from being honest in expressing an opinion about his work.
I still believe he is a capital "N" nut, but he is on to something, and it has intrigued me to no end!
One time, his people planned some "meet and greet" over, I think, his first action Pepsi commercial or something. IDK. I can't remember. Too busy burning brain cells over the fact he was doing something to make EVERYone seriously angry ON PURPOSE. Ofttimes the lavish food at these things makes them tolerable while everyone gets together and strokes the artist for his work...Does anyone recall this ? I know I am missing some detail...
Anyway, what does MJ serve his guests? Pepsi and dishes of peanuts. He'd told his people it would be something healthy or something, and, not only that, but there was NO alcohol--not even a little wine, to put his guests out of their hours and hours of misery!! EVERY body was so angry, and dismayed, because MJ NEVER made an appearance, for folks to meet him!
The thing that AMAZES me, is that he actually did walk right into the midst of this angry mob, disguised as an older man, and sought out their honest opinions of this goofball who has blown his own party off! What kind of person WANTS to hear people say mean things about him???
What is more amazing, is, that even though he knows it's how they really feel, and CAN'T slough it off as, "oh, they didn't MEAN it", it does not affect his confidence in himself at all. Forget rhinoceros skin...the guy has mental armor which is otherworldly. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> just think, if everyone was able to be that resistant to criticism; able to believe in themselves so much that no fiery dart could penetrate their peace, or twist their joy into resentment or revenge! War would be over, if everyone felt so secure, so good about themselves that even "Fightin' Words", rolled off like water off the back of a duck! Amazing.
And...of course rumors flew, about the kind of host he was, and that was that...
I also heard this same old man walked about public parks to ask folk what they thought about Michael Jackson....Oh, yeah, he can spot a liar a mile away, because, like Houdini, HE does it best. He has reverse-engineered the Fake, in order to perfect Illusion. I think he was just patronized so much, that the Truth became an obsession, calling for creative intervention. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But he is a nut <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I mean in a comedic sort of way. One would have to be to create an alter ego of himself for 30+ years and present him to the public as real. He created his OWN Pinnocchio(only a big liar whose nose shrinks, not the other way!), and gave him all kinds of personal details, such as his likes and dislikes, how he loves everybody and is shy and sweet and vulnerable, has no love life, lonely, misunderstood, terrifed of his dad, hates the way he looks, and keeps getting surgeries to tweak that, and on and on ...This is Hoax #1, I believe.
Hoax #2 is him being dead. MJ isn't dead, Pinnocchio is! The reason everyone was so upset, and some still are, is because people BELIEVED his Illusion, (HE'S GOOD!!)and will NOT be disillusioned, by people saying he is calculating enough to have planned such a thing. Well...he is. He has "tick tocks" in between the tick tocks everyone else has in their brains. He is a musical and innovative genius. His mind MUST create. Idleness is pain. If you don't think he faked his alter ego's death, go rent "The Elephant Man". I was and am going to strip this movie for folks here, but I have felt some people just can't take it, yet. He IS calculating and doing many complex illusions on purpose! I wouldn't have believed it, if I had not seen this.
Some really delicate psyches associate calculating with evil. He's not evil. He's a joker, a nut. Notice how happy he is when he is doing a prank. I LOVE that ! Tell those unbelievers to try not to take themselves so seriously (if this is hard to take). It is supposed to entertain us, not hurt! This is the BIGGEST Adventure Park the world has ever been IN. We are learning things we needed to know, learning how to see the true and recognize the false everywhere in our environment. Adulthood is ABOUT disillusionment. You are a sitting duck for evil unless you DO put away childish things <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> . Yeah, retain your sweetness, your dreams, your wonder; but open your eyes, and toughen up. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Think: how could that child, Pinnocchio, i.e., "Michael Jackson" put together a Solo, multi billion dollar enterprise and rule the entertainment world, if he was such a delicate pushover, playing with butterflies??????
Hoax#3 is the Chandler thing, either the entire thing or the father's death or something.
Oh, and don't forget another Hoax, not certain which number, though, maybe actually the very first one <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The one where he began to convince people he was becoming lighter skinned. Look at the 80s interview with Ebony/Jet. It always bothered me that Mr. Perfectionist did that interview with makeup only on his face. It HAD to be on purpose. And, get this, one of the things they talk about is MJ doing some remake of the movie, The Elephant Man! Out of the blue! Why waste interview time(pricelessly rare!) talking about some movie he saw?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Naw, they planned this interview down to the last detail!Of course, he sweetly, bashfully says, "oh, no, no, well, maybe, tee hee" LIAR. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
He is doing this NOW. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I submit to you that this Pre-BAD(!!) makeup was a sort of Theatrical Mask to document for his proof, afterwards, the signal "Curtain Up". <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The show had begun...
Its her:
I love your posts, but sometimes I think we psycho-analyze Michael too much... All people have different facets, and they all come out at different times, depending on the context. I don't fully agree with the "alter ego" thing... It seems a fancy way of expressing a pretty simple idea. And people can actually be complex and simple at the same time - which I believe Michael was/is.
The reason for wanting to observe the world as a normal person is quite simple, and MJ explained it in an interview: Everyone acts in a certain way (usually fake) when meeting "Michael Jackson" (the star, the icon). And Michael wanted to relate to people in a normal way, and just be Mike, without always being put under a microscope or be asked to dance or talk about his music. And yeah, maybe he wanted the TRUTH about who people are and what they think... Not a fake show. I think that's understandable, and it's laudable that he didn't let the hype go to his head, and didn't insulate himself from the real world.
"The Elephant Man" movie was only a small part of that 1987 Ebony interview, and the interviewer actually asked many other good questions. I wasn't surprised when this came along... I felt the interview was pretty fluid. Now I'm not sure when the rumors came out that Michael wanted to buy the bones of the EM, but maybe it was around that time, and Michael simply wanted to clarify/explain why he was interested in the bones and in the story of the Elephant Man?
The fact that we see/make up fancy explanations for some things doesn't mean those explanations are true. There could be other, simpler explanations...
I don't deny that MJ was a smart, savvy and calculating (not evil, indeed) man. He HAD to be! The man was a freakin' industry in and by himself, and had to deal with lots of stuff - much of which we can barely begin to imagine. But I don't believe he created an "alter ego" that had nothing to do with who he was in essence! There WAS a rather pure, sensitive, gentle and gentlemanly side to him... There's just too much evidence for that. A SIDE. As I said in the beginning, people have FACETS.
As an example of people having different facets, think of LMP: We've seen her as stubborn and rebellious, but also as rather obedient/submissive in the presence of her mother (Priscilla)... We've seen her trashing her marriage to Michael AND being extremely emotional after June 25th, and going on Oprah to basically take back statements made in the past, and explain how she came to understand things she didn't understand at the time.
Think also about any other person, including yourself: We behave in a certain way in the workplace and in a different way at home, as parents or siblings or aunts/uncles etc. Different sides come out, no? I personally can be very serious and no-nonsense at work but quite childlike/playful in my personal time...
When you get mobbed pretty much everywhere you go, it must get EXHAUSTING being you after a while... I think MJ simply needed to escape sometimes - to get away from his fame and from "Michael Jackson" the icon. He basically carried an albatross around his neck at all times, metaphorically speaking (or a cross on his back, if you prefer) and probably felt SUFFOCATED at times. Is that so hard to understand, how fame (especially at that level) can be a burden? How flashbulbs hitting your eyes, day after day after day, for YEARS, can wear you out? How the hordes of paparazzi and/or fans can start to get on your nerves? How being trapped in hotels can get OLD after a while?
MJ had a lot of freedom in some ways, but was also trapped by his fame and name (and still is) in other ways... When you say "Michael Jackson" to anyone, people immediately conjure up a certain image in their head - and everyone thinks they know the man! Everyone has an opinion, even though they may not know what they're talking about. Now how pleasant do you think it is to be gossip fodder for the entire world?! I'm sure MJ had moments when he told himself, "F*** it. I don't care what the press says, or what people think - especially if they aren't even interested in the truth. The ignoramuses can s*** my socks." <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I mean, wouldn't you (have such moments if you'd lived his life)?!
There are many reasons why they don't believe Michael is alive, but I think first comes that the non-believers have a different image of Michael: Michael the victim, the angel, controled by evil people, unable to run his own life, naive to the point of stupidity, trusting the wrong people......
I think it would be great for them to read "The magic and the madness" ........ even if I don't know for sure if Randy's Michael is the real Michael..... but for sure he is not pictured like a victim at all.....They don't know that if Michael doesn't want to do something he is capable of saying NO.
They don't know that if you mess with Michael you're OUT.
They don't know he learned about PR since he was 12.....
I think they don't know the man behind the mask.......
I so agree with you. This image of a man who was a victim does not fit the person who was able to become the King of Pop. Sometimes I think MJ may be responsible for some of the thoughts of him being a vicitm. Maybe this was his way of manipulating things. But regardless, he's no victim. Randy may just be playing his role. One thing is for sure, anybody who really knew MJ would tell you he was not somebody you could walk all over. And he was not stupid enoungh to take a drug which he knew could kill him in his sleep, and be in fear of someone killing him.
I
was this one supposed to have had a fair amount of access to michael? if so i am wondering about these confidentiality agreements. they bother me to now end. guess they are deem necessary but idk i can see them for the creative stuff but the one book i saw teddy riley is talking about being met at neverland with one when he landed there . seems a bit too much to me. guess i am funny about integrity.
I think what Randy's saying in his book is true, most of it.
It's difficult for me to explain why...I think MJ is the kind of man who would behave like described in the book.
I also believe over the years he changed, maybe a lot.....we all change all the time....
2005 maybe changed him the most....
I believe Michael hided his real self from the public. Why else are we now asked to discover the man we never knew?!
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and I would like to give my own interpretation by what I originally meant by 'Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax'. First off as I have mentioned before, MJ has been hoaxing the world for a long time..... he has painted a picture of what he wants people to see, whether that be in an interview or video or performance. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's just his nature, to be a joker and to 'play' with people. As we know, he likes creating the mystery and illusions as that is part of genuine showbusiness.........it is the entertainer's job to entertain. That hoax has been planned to sit inside his 'death' hoax...by showing the world at large images that tend to give the impression that he is not well, by leaking reports to the media of insomnia and prescription drug abuse, the stress of the tour, etc; it laid the foundation for the public to think 'at face value', his odd demise is totally plausible. (However, he was ingenious to leave enough clues for those who are objective, interested, and not conditioned by what has been presented by the media as fact, to recognise the hoax). Thirdly, my thoughts were that the 'death' hoax itself sits within the broader 'hoax' that is WORLDWIDE FREEDOM. It's a hoax because we are not really as 'free' as we THINK we are......mass media is brainwashing the public everyday and this is not a new concept.....say 'hello' to advertising and marketing. It's all about how receptive we are as individuals in allowing ourselves to be conditioned. It is confronting to not feel as 'free' as we think we are, but resistance to the idea in fact reveals just how entrenched the conditioning is already. This leads in nicely to the current situation with the non-believers. They have been conditioned: firstly by MJ himself (to view him a certain way), and then by the media, however it is ironic that all fans are well aware of how the media has lied about MJ time and again, yet the non-believers feel that the media didn't lie about his death......this is what I find astonishing. It's not a coincidence that MJ's 'death' hoax is intended to expose conditioning and corruption........it will be a world-wide wake up call. I really feel that MJ should record a song called WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF since the message will be digested more eagerly if it is in song form. It's an anthem that the world could really use right now!!
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and I would like to give my own interpretation by what I originally meant by 'Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax'. First off as I have mentioned before, MJ has been hoaxing the world for a long time..... he has painted a picture of what he wants people to see, whether that be in an interview or video or performance. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's just his nature, to be a joker and to 'play' with people. As we know, he likes creating the mystery and illusions as that is part of genuine showbusiness.........it is the entertainer's job to entertain. That hoax has been planned to sit inside his 'death' hoax...by showing the world at large images that tend to give the impression that he is not well, by leaking reports to the media of insomnia and prescription drug abuse, the stress of the tour, etc; it laid the foundation for the public to think 'at face value', his odd demise is totally plausible. (However, he was ingenious to leave enough clues for those who are objective, interested, and not conditioned by what has been presented by the media as fact, to recognise the hoax). Thirdly, my thoughts were that the 'death' hoax itself sits within the broader 'hoax' that is WORLDWIDE FREEDOM. It's a hoax because we are not really as 'free' as we THINK we are......mass media is brainwashing the public everyday and this is not a new concept.....say 'hello' to advertising and marketing. It's all about how receptive we are as individuals in allowing ourselves to be conditioned. It is confronting to not feel as 'free' as we think we are, but resistance to the idea in fact reveals just how entrenched the conditioning is already. This leads in nicely to the current situation with the non-believers. They have been conditioned: firstly by MJ himself (to view him a certain way), and then by the media, however it is ironic that all fans are well aware of how the media has lied about MJ time and again, yet the non-believers feel that the media didn't lie about his death......this is what I find astonishing. It's not a coincidence that MJ's 'death' hoax is intended to expose conditioning and corruption........it will be a world-wide wake up call. I really feel that MJ should record a song called WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF since the message will be digested more eagerly if it is in song form. It's an anthem that the world could really use right now!!
High five!
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
I was looking back to my older posts and this topic below is what I believe is the real answer to the blindness of the non-believers.
On the thread/topic far back we were discussing the 4 years Michael talked about in the TII movie. <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6033<!-- l -->
Here are my thoughts on that subject.
This is for those who believe in the spiritual world.
Re: We only have four years?
by Im_convincedmjalive » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:51 pm
MJalive999 wrote:
When he sets himself up as God war will break out in heaven. Satan, having received false glory as the Almighty from his son the antichrist, will be cast down to earth along with his legions of demons who side with him in the heavenly battle. This will occur three and a half years after the peace agreement has been signed and marks the beginning of the 1,290 day desolation period.
<!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
I am REALLY GLAD to see this!
Someone is getting the BIGGER picture!
I pray that more people will soon have the DECEPTIVE veil lifted from their eyes.
While the hoax is providing us with clues to many things about why MJ had to construct his "death" as a shock value for US to wake up to these REALITIES, it is also causing many to get confused and not focus correctly.
I have read the theories related to what some think is the meaning behind 4 years and I say it is humorous at times but, also very sad.
I am getting the impression here that there are alot of younger people who need their elders to get involed. I hope that if the younger ones on this forum become aware that they in turn inform their parents to help them gain a better understanding of this enormous concept.
Re: We only have four years?
by Im_convincedmjalive » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:41 pm
Although this text comes from a website in which the plan of the devil ( satan) uses a deception on people to believe that this information is coming from an Alien, like E.T. if people of (faith who understand it to be exactly what it is) and interpret this information correctly it is very good insight to truth.
A SPIRITUAL WARFARE between good and evil. Warfare between God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit ( Trinity) <Good vs. Evil> ( satan and his demons).
Humanity, though utterly unconscious of the fact, has a significant part to play in this. You (as a collective consciousness of the planet) are choosing the Negative Polarization by default, by the quality of your thoughts and actions. Thought is creative energy, focused. You get exactly what you put out.
Why do you think the Media is so important to us? You have (as a society), in your hypnotized comatose state, given your Free Will consent to the state your planet is in today.
You saturate your minds with the unhealthy dishes served up for you on your televisions that you are addicted to, violence, pornography, greed, hatred, selfishness, incessant 'bad news', fear and 'terror'.
When was the last time you stopped, to think of something beautiful and pure? The planet is the way it is, because of your collective thoughts about it. You are complicit in your inaction, every time you 'look the other way' when you see an injustice.
Your 'thought' at the sub-conscious level of creation to the Creator, is your allowance of these things to occur. In so doing, you are serving our purpose.
It is very important to us, that the Polarization of this planet is Negative at the time of the Great Harvest. That means Service to Self orientated, as opposed to Positive, Service to Others.
We require a Negative Harvest, and you are doing a fine job of helping us to attain our goal. We are very grateful.
There will be dramatic changes to your climate and weather conditions over the next few years, as the time of the Great Harvest approaches.
You will see windspeeds surpassing 300 miles per hour at times. There will be raging tsunamis and widespread devastation; and a solar emission in late 2009 early 2010 that will cause major melting of the ice caps, and subsequent drastic rise in sea levels, leaving many (international) metropolitan areas underwater.
That is all I have time for at present. I have a Sacrifice I must attend now.
No, not really.
Let's see if we can increase the 'depth' of enquiry and question matter in the next session. Seek beyond the superficial. Get to the 'Core' of the matter.
Now if you read this as a person of FAITH and see it for what it is, this is a spirit ( don't know for sure which side it is on) but, it has told it like it is. It has given us Humans the answer, and WE have FREE WILL to choose what we want here and NOW!
However for those who do not view this like some of us do, here is a more human (vs. spiritual) and surface explanation to the phenom of what is going on with the non-believers.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner<!-- m -->
Burrhus Frederic Skinner (March 20, 1904 – August 18, 1990) was an American psychologist, author, inventor, social philosopher, and poet. He was the Edgar Pierce Professor of Psychology at Harvard University from 1958 until his retirement in 1974.
Skinner invented the operant conditioning chamber, innovated his own philosophy of science called Radical Behaviorism, and founded his own school of experimental research psychology—the experimental analysis of behavior. His analysis of human behavior culminated in his work Verbal Behavior, which has recently seen enormous increase in interest experimentally and in applied settings.
Skinner discovered and advanced the rate of response as a dependent variable in psychological research. He invented the cumulative recorder to measure rate of responding as part of his highly influential work on schedules of reinforcement. In a June, 2002 survey, Skinner was listed as the most influential psychologist of the 20th century. He was a prolific author who published 21 books and 180 articles.
Brave New World is a novel by Aldous Huxley, written in 1931 and published in 1932. Set in London of AD 2540 (632 A.F. in the book), the novel anticipates developments in reproductive technology and sleep-learning that combine to change society. The future society is an embodiment of the ideals that form the basis of futurism. Huxley answered this book with a reassessment in an essay, Brave New World Revisited (1958), and with his final work, a novel titled Island (1962), both summarized below.
THE PLOT
Brave New World is partly a statement of ideas (expressed by characters with no more depth than cartoon characters) and only partly a story with a plot.
The first three chapters present most of the important ideas or themes of the novel. The Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning explains that this Utopia breeds people to order, artificially fertilizing a mother's eggs to create babies that grow in bottles. They are not born, but decanted. Everyone belongs to one of five classes, from the Alphas, the most intelligent, to the Epsilons, morons bred to do the dirty jobs that nobody else wants to do. The lower classes are multiplied by a budding process that can create up to 96 identical clones and produce over 15,000 brothers and sisters from a single ovary.
All the babies are conditioned, physically and chemically in the bottle, and psychologically after birth, to make them happy citizens of the society with both a liking and an aptitude for the work they will do. One psychological conditioning technique is hypnopaedia, or teaching people while they sleep- not teaching facts or analysis, but planting suggestions that will make people behave in certain ways. The Director also makes plain that sex is a source of happiness, a game people play with anyone who pleases them.
The Controller, one of the ten men who run the world, explains some of the more profound principles on which the Utopia is based. One is that "history is bunk"; the society limits people's knowledge of the past so they will not be able to compare the present with anything that might make them want to change the present. Another principle is that people should have no emotions, particularly no painful emotions; blind happiness is necessary for stability. One of the things that guarantees happiness is a drug called soma, which calms you down and gets you high but never gives you a hangover. Another is the "feelies," movies that reach your sense of touch as well as your sight and hearing.
After Huxley presents these themes in the first three chapters, the story begins. Bernard Marx, an Alpha of the top class, is on the verge of falling in love with Lenina Crowne, a woman who works in the Embryo Room of the Hatchery. Lenina has been dating Henry Foster, a Hatchery scientist; her friend Fanny nags her because she hasn't seen any other man for four months. Lenina likes Bernard but doesn't fall in love with him. Falling in love is a sin in this world in which one has sex with everyone else, and she is a happy, conforming citizen of the Utopia.
Bernard is neither happy nor conforming. He's a bit odd; for one thing, he's small for an Alpha, in a world where every member of the same caste is alike. He likes to treasure his differences from his fellows, but he lacks the courage to fight for his right to be an individual. In contrast is his friend Helmholtz Watson, successful in sports, sex, and community activities, but openly dissatisfied because instead of writing something beautiful and powerful, his job is to turn out propaganda.
Bernard attends a solidarity service of the Fordian religion, a parody of Christianity as practiced in England in the 1920s. It culminates in a sexual orgy, but he doesn't feel the true rapture experienced by the other 11 members of his group.
Bernard then takes Lenina to visit a Savage Reservation in North America. While signing his permit to go, the Director tells Bernard how he visited the same Reservation as a young man, taking a young woman from London who disappeared and was presumed dead. He then threatens Bernard with exile to Iceland because Bernard is a nonconformist: he doesn't gobble up pleasure in his leisure time like an infant.
At the Reservation, Bernard and Lenina meet John, a handsome young Savage who, Bernard soon realizes, is the son of the Director. Clearly, the woman the Director had taken to the Reservation long ago had become pregnant as the result of an accident that the citizens of Utopia would consider obscene. John has a fantasy picture of the Utopia from his mother's tales and a knowledge of Shakespeare that he mistakes for a guide to reality.
Bernard gets permission from the Controller to bring John and Linda, his mother, back to London. The Director had called a public meeting to announce Bernard's exile, but by greeting the Director as lover and father, respectively, Linda and John turn him into an obscene joke. Bernard stays and becomes the center of attention of all London because he is, in effect, John's guardian, and everybody wants to meet the Savage. Linda goes into a permanent soma trance after her years of exile on the Reservation. John is taken to see all the attractions of new world society and doesn't like them. But he enjoys arguing with Helmholtz about them, and about Shakespeare.
Lenina has become popular because she is thought to be sleeping with the Savage. Everyone envies her and wants to know what it's like. But, in fact, while she wants to sleep with John, he refuses because he, too, has fallen in love with her- and he has taken from Shakespeare the old-fashioned idea that lovers should be pure. Not understanding this, she finally comes to his apartment and takes her clothes off. He throws her out, calling her a prostitute because he thinks she's immoral, even though he wants her desperately.
John then learns that his mother is dying. The hospital illustrates the Utopia's approach to death, which includes trying to completely eliminate grief and pain. When John goes to visit Linda he is devastated; his display of grief frightens children being taught that death is a pleasant and natural process. John grows so angry that he tries to bring the Utopia back to what he considers sanity and morality by disrupting the daily distribution of soma to lower-caste Delta workers. That leads to a riot; John, Bernard, and Helmholtz are arrested.
The three then confront the Controller, who explains more of the Utopia's principles. Their conversation reveals that the Utopia achieves its happiness by giving up science, art, religion, and other things that we prize in the real world. The Controller sends Bernard to Iceland, after all, and Helmholtz to the Falkland Islands. He keeps John in England, but John finds a place where he can lead a hermit's life, complete with suffering. His solitude is invaded by Utopians who want to see him suffer, as though it were a sideshow spectacle; when Lenina joins the mob, he kills himself.
THE CHARACTERS
Because this is a Utopian novel of ideas, few of the characters are three-dimensional people who come alive on the page. Most exist to voice ideas in words or to embody them in their behavior. John, Bernard, Helmholtz, and the Controller express ideas through real personalities, but you will enjoy most of the others more if you see them as cartoon characters rather than as full portraits that may seem so poorly drawn that they will disappoint you.
It boils down to social conditioning from birth.
The biggest "hoax" towards humanity being played out on the world stage is from the biggest liar of all time.
Its her, I am thrilled that you mentioned MJ donning disguises in order to obtain honest opinions.......IMO this hoax is his biggest market research activity to date. Being able to watch all of this unfold from behind the scenes and see how people act and react is giving him an advance 'preview' of what may happen when he finally does meet his maker and he gets to do it while he is still living!! He's so curious about human nature that he took the opportunity to see "who said what" and "who did what" .............. it ain't no use wondering about it when you're long gone, much better to 'see' it while you're here.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and I would like to give my own interpretation by what I originally meant by 'Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax'. First off as I have mentioned before, MJ has been hoaxing the world for a long time..... he has painted a picture of what he wants people to see, whether that be in an interview or video or performance. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's just his nature, to be a joker and to 'play' with people. As we know, he likes creating the mystery and illusions as that is part of genuine showbusiness.........it is the entertainer's job to entertain. That hoax has been planned to sit inside his 'death' hoax...by showing the world at large images that tend to give the impression that he is not well, by leaking reports to the media of insomnia and prescription drug abuse, the stress of the tour, etc; it laid the foundation for the public to think 'at face value', his odd demise is totally plausible. (However, he was ingenious to leave enough clues for those who are objective, interested, and not conditioned by what has been presented by the media as fact, to recognise the hoax). Thirdly, my thoughts were that the 'death' hoax itself sits within the broader 'hoax' that is WORLDWIDE FREEDOM. It's a hoax because we are not really as 'free' as we THINK we are......mass media is brainwashing the public everyday and this is not a new concept.....say 'hello' to advertising and marketing. It's all about how receptive we are as individuals in allowing ourselves to be conditioned. It is confronting to not feel as 'free' as we think we are, but resistance to the idea in fact reveals just how entrenched the conditioning is already. This leads in nicely to the current situation with the non-believers. They have been conditioned: firstly by MJ himself (to view him a certain way), and then by the media, however it is ironic that all fans are well aware of how the media has lied about MJ time and again, yet the non-believers feel that the media didn't lie about his death......this is what I find astonishing. It's not a coincidence that MJ's 'death' hoax is intended to expose conditioning and corruption........it will be a world-wide wake up call. I really feel that MJ should record a song called WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF since the message will be digested more eagerly if it is in song form. It's an anthem that the world could really use right now!!
BJ but... MJ conditioning of his own fans has probably got a greater hold on his fans than the media has. As the majority of fans seem to rule out any thoughts of him having faked his death... 'cos "He would never do such a thing"!
I agree with your 3 hoaxes though I feel that there are more elements into the Hoax that those 3 Hoaxes; I guess that those other elements could be example of hoaxes, Elvis could for example be a fake death example or maybe it is just an entertaining little Hoax... ?
Looking forward to WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF! This would be such an amazing way to give the message but please remember breaking News! I think the World will need a video and a live broadcast as well to BeLIEve!
THINK FOR YOURSELF should be the Army of Love marching song!
Comments
This is interesting, I talked about this personally with people, and the answers I got from both sides; Die hard fans and "I could not care less about MJ" folks, are the same in resume.
Reasons why MJ is dead
-The media reported the event world wide
-MJ was sick and a drug addict
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out.
-We saw the gold casket
-There are police and court involved
-His family is looking for the murderer but MJ paid for it. So sad, soooooo sad.
Common phrases I´ve been told:
-His family wont lie to the world about something like this
-His mother was destroyed
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help
-The police and the whole court and legal system are not going to fake something like this
-Michael Jackson is dead, deal with it, come back to reality, you are going to end up like Elvis fans <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
-People saying that MJ is alive are just looking for your money
I can go on and on.....
People believe that MJ is dead because his family said so
Feels like the big interest at the moment is about the album being fake or not...
-His family and his children were on TV and in his memorial and funeral crying his hearts out. --> Don't know where they've seen them crying their hearts out, 'cause I haven't, until Oprah and there Katherine shed tears indeed....
- His mother was destroyed - She didn't look like that, going shopping 3 days after her son's "death" and looking like it was just another day. No swollen eyes, no tired face, no sad expression that would show her grief. Nothing. Words for me don't count if you don't show them.Words ca be faked but feelings can't be faked and also look natural as you would really feel them.
-Have you seen his kids? they are destroyed and getting psychological help - This is very strange to hear, because the kids were actually smilling at their father "funeral", Prince also making gum baloons and looking rather extremelly bored. None of them had the slightest trace of suffering on their faces. Trying to look sad doesn't actually look natural if yu don't actually feel what you are showing.
yes, I sometimes loose so much hope seeing everything that the family does to reminds us always how he was killed, how Murray is the fall guy but there are many, how SONY releases fraud songs, yes, I loose hope sometimes.. I feel like in such moments I am just a crazy person who believes in fools. I think I'll never have inside peace until I see him indeed there in my face
The funny part is that when one explains that the family looked more upset than sad then one is labelled as a "non sensitive or non empathic" <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
The arguments are usually "Look at his mother" , "Look at his kids" , "Have you seen the funeral" , "The man is DEAD, the whole world saw his memorial and funeral, D.E.A.D, deal with it"
At times I pity myself <!-- s
That's pretty easy to answer - they don't listen (they only hear) and they do not see (they only look)! They have screamed at the believers that THEY KNOW MJ and MJ WOULD NEVER DO THIS TO HIS FAMILY OR FRIENDS!
Now in all fairness there have been some non believers who would actually listen and would ask questions but something changed along the way and now even those few have turned off all posibilities of listening.
I have always tried to look at this hoax from both sides and yes it is easy to see why they feel this way; as mentioned in earlier posts the media said so, so it must be true. The family is grieving so it must be true. But if they would really take the time and actually see what is in front of them the light would be so bright they wouldn't be able to ignore the possibility any longer!
Overwhelming sadness/grief could also play a part in this. They were in so much pain (still are) and that was fueled with Murray, the media and the family saying murder and then TINI got into it the only thing they could do was hold onto the one thing that was left of Michael and that was to keep his legacy going. Any other thought wouldn't make sense to them, they had to keep MJ alive and by keeping his legacy alive meant he was alive - even though it was only in their hearts.
But I do have to commend the ones who have upheld his legacy and have written letters, signed petitions, been at each court hearing........because they are showing him the love that they know how to give.
I just wish they would at least listen....
Love you Michael!
I teach 4th grade, and one day, during free time, there were a group of my students hanging out and I heard them talking about Michael Jackson. I was so completely surprised! I asked them what they were talking about, and they said that they were fans of his. It really brought a smile to my face. Another 4th grader in the other classroom actually wrote a report on Michael Jackson.....of course, I was thinking..."Well, let me tell you a few things you might not know about Michael....." <!-- s
But, I haven't said anything to my students about the hoax. I'm not sure it's my place to tell them. I don't know. All the teachers in my school know that I think he's alive, though. Some of them find it interesting and quite plausible. Others just laugh at me. I keep telling them.....
"Wait for it....then....BAM!!"
Those different reactions have to do with information, communication, sender - receiver, black box, perception, mind-set, conclusions and taking decisions on what a personal life should look like. Those reactions are the outcome of a string of single decisions.
In addition, it comes to allowing new aspects and change in your life - and that's the very hard one.
The "predefined" mind-set happens in everyday life and is not only Michael-related.
Negative judgement "they would never..." speaks of a personal (and influenced) decision where we have placed people on our life chess board in that moment - either we crown them king or we chase them as pawn. A king "cannot" hurt his family, entourage and fans, this hurter (or even liar) must be a pawn then and Michael "cannot" be a simple pawn (human being). This is not foreseen in the cast (mind-set).
The lady with pink underwear on her clothesline may be the most lovely woman in my neighbourhood - but as I don't wear pink underwear (maybe I even envy her and would love to?), this does not fit into my life concept / chess board and thus the person having it on her clothesline does not fit into my life and must be a pawn to chase.
A life grid is nothing bad, don't get me wrong on this one. Somehow we must find an orientation on how to live, who to meet, what to do. You run from fire and it is right to do so. However, it is also fact that values and virtues are being eliminated from our orientation scales. Again, it is about personal decisions, what we cling to and where we are open to let fresh air in. Maybe it's time for purple underwear and having a tea with that lovely lady?
As to mind-set, it may be surprising that some of the folks on this forum are not fans.
Some discovered Michael on the incident of his disappearance, being driven by curiosity or the wish to "want to know". Are non-fans more open-minded or less "pre-set"? Isn't it a very individual matter, not relating to being fan or non-fan?
There is a lot more to this. I bet there could be pages and pages about "why" and "how" different the reactions are. Basically it is human nature and errors of logical thinking that are common. That's where illusions and magic and make.believe are made possible.
(I think most of the beLIEvers are not aware that by promoting the word "beLIEve" they themselves are actually spreading a very visible LIE. They have become part of the illusion - deliberately in addition. It is really human nature to be mistaken.)
In fact Michael's disappearance would be a very interesting global social and psychological study field. I have not heard of an ongoing study yet but I would not surprised at all if there were students and experts working on some.
I came into this thread at a part which was the end, now somewhere in the middle, and wondered why so many people were saying they didn't understand the title. When I read the OP, I didn't understand it either. I mean, yes, there are many hoaxes within the very first one, but the OP neither addresses nor suggests ANY of them. Instead, he suggests that MJ is using this adventure as an experiment in people observation. Sort of a "Hide and Watch".
Well, what else is new? He's been doing this for decades, here and there, in physical disguise. I can't remember the first time I heard/ read/ learned that he did this, but I thought he was a nut, until I realized that his "Bigness", prevented people from being, not only themselves with him, but prevented people from being honest in expressing an opinion about his work.
I still believe he is a capital "N" nut, but he is on to something, and it has intrigued me to no end!
One time, his people planned some "meet and greet" over, I think, his first action Pepsi commercial or something. IDK. I can't remember. Too busy burning brain cells over the fact he was doing something to make EVERYone seriously angry ON PURPOSE. Ofttimes the lavish food at these things makes them tolerable while everyone gets together and strokes the artist for his work...Does anyone recall this ? I know I am missing some detail...
Anyway, what does MJ serve his guests? Pepsi and dishes of peanuts. He'd told his people it would be something healthy or something, and, not only that, but there was NO alcohol--not even a little wine, to put his guests out of their hours and hours of misery!! EVERY body was so angry, and dismayed, because MJ NEVER made an appearance, for folks to meet him!
The thing that AMAZES me, is that he actually did walk right into the midst of this angry mob, disguised as an older man, and sought out their honest opinions of this goofball who has blown his own party off! What kind of person WANTS to hear people say mean things about him???
What is more amazing, is, that even though he knows it's how they really feel, and CAN'T slough it off as, "oh, they didn't MEAN it", it does not affect his confidence in himself at all. Forget rhinoceros skin...the guy has mental armor which is otherworldly. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> just think, if everyone was able to be that resistant to criticism; able to believe in themselves so much that no fiery dart could penetrate their peace, or twist their joy into resentment or revenge! War would be over, if everyone felt so secure, so good about themselves that even "Fightin' Words", rolled off like water off the back of a duck! Amazing.
And...of course rumors flew, about the kind of host he was, and that was that...
I also heard this same old man walked about public parks to ask folk what they thought about Michael Jackson....Oh, yeah, he can spot a liar a mile away, because, like Houdini, HE does it best. He has reverse-engineered the Fake, in order to perfect Illusion. I think he was just patronized so much, that the Truth became an obsession, calling for creative intervention. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But he is a nut <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I mean in a comedic sort of way. One would have to be to create an alter ego of himself for 30+ years and present him to the public as real. He created his OWN Pinnocchio(only a big liar whose nose shrinks, not the other way!), and gave him all kinds of personal details, such as his likes and dislikes, how he loves everybody and is shy and sweet and vulnerable, has no love life, lonely, misunderstood, terrifed of his dad, hates the way he looks, and keeps getting surgeries to tweak that, and on and on ...This is Hoax #1, I believe.
Hoax #2 is him being dead. MJ isn't dead, Pinnocchio is! The reason everyone was so upset, and some still are, is because people BELIEVED his Illusion, (HE'S GOOD!!)and will NOT be disillusioned, by people saying he is calculating enough to have planned such a thing. Well...he is. He has "tick tocks" in between the tick tocks everyone else has in their brains. He is a musical and innovative genius. His mind MUST create. Idleness is pain. If you don't think he faked his alter ego's death, go rent "The Elephant Man". I was and am going to strip this movie for folks here, but I have felt some people just can't take it, yet. He IS calculating and doing many complex illusions on purpose! I wouldn't have believed it, if I had not seen this.
Some really delicate psyches associate calculating with evil. He's not evil. He's a joker, a nut. Notice how happy he is when he is doing a prank. I LOVE that ! Tell those unbelievers to try not to take themselves so seriously (if this is hard to take). It is supposed to entertain us, not hurt! This is the BIGGEST Adventure Park the world has ever been IN. We are learning things we needed to know, learning how to see the true and recognize the false everywhere in our environment. Adulthood is ABOUT disillusionment. You are a sitting duck for evil unless you DO put away childish things <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> . Yeah, retain your sweetness, your dreams, your wonder; but open your eyes, and toughen up. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Think: how could that child, Pinnocchio, i.e., "Michael Jackson" put together a Solo, multi billion dollar enterprise and rule the entertainment world, if he was such a delicate pushover, playing with butterflies??????
Hoax#3 is the Chandler thing, either the entire thing or the father's death or something.
Oh, and don't forget another Hoax, not certain which number, though, maybe actually the very first one <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The one where he began to convince people he was becoming lighter skinned. Look at the 80s interview with Ebony/Jet. It always bothered me that Mr. Perfectionist did that interview with makeup only on his face. It HAD to be on purpose. And, get this, one of the things they talk about is MJ doing some remake of the movie, The Elephant Man! Out of the blue! Why waste interview time(pricelessly rare!) talking about some movie he saw?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Naw, they planned this interview down to the last detail!Of course, he sweetly, bashfully says, "oh, no, no, well, maybe, tee hee" LIAR. <!-- s
He is doing this NOW. <!-- s
I submit to you that this Pre-BAD(!!) makeup was a sort of Theatrical Mask to document for his proof, afterwards, the signal "Curtain Up". <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The show had begun...
Remembers me of someone who told his Mother : "Thank you Ms. Katherine for giving birth to such a crazy kid like Michael Jackson!!" <!-- s
That's why we LOVE him so much!
Its her:
I love your posts, but sometimes I think we psycho-analyze Michael too much... All people have different facets, and they all come out at different times, depending on the context. I don't fully agree with the "alter ego" thing... It seems a fancy way of expressing a pretty simple idea. And people can actually be complex and simple at the same time - which I believe Michael was/is.
The reason for wanting to observe the world as a normal person is quite simple, and MJ explained it in an interview: Everyone acts in a certain way (usually fake) when meeting "Michael Jackson" (the star, the icon). And Michael wanted to relate to people in a normal way, and just be Mike, without always being put under a microscope or be asked to dance or talk about his music. And yeah, maybe he wanted the TRUTH about who people are and what they think... Not a fake show. I think that's understandable, and it's laudable that he didn't let the hype go to his head, and didn't insulate himself from the real world.
"The Elephant Man" movie was only a small part of that 1987 Ebony interview, and the interviewer actually asked many other good questions. I wasn't surprised when this came along... I felt the interview was pretty fluid. Now I'm not sure when the rumors came out that Michael wanted to buy the bones of the EM, but maybe it was around that time, and Michael simply wanted to clarify/explain why he was interested in the bones and in the story of the Elephant Man?
The fact that we see/make up fancy explanations for some things doesn't mean those explanations are true. There could be other, simpler explanations...
I don't deny that MJ was a smart, savvy and calculating (not evil, indeed) man. He HAD to be! The man was a freakin' industry in and by himself, and had to deal with lots of stuff - much of which we can barely begin to imagine. But I don't believe he created an "alter ego" that had nothing to do with who he was in essence! There WAS a rather pure, sensitive, gentle and gentlemanly side to him... There's just too much evidence for that. A SIDE. As I said in the beginning, people have FACETS.
Think also about any other person, including yourself: We behave in a certain way in the workplace and in a different way at home, as parents or siblings or aunts/uncles etc. Different sides come out, no? I personally can be very serious and no-nonsense at work but quite childlike/playful in my personal time...
People are complex, AND they evolve in time.
When you get mobbed pretty much everywhere you go, it must get EXHAUSTING being you after a while... I think MJ simply needed to escape sometimes - to get away from his fame and from "Michael Jackson" the icon. He basically carried an albatross around his neck at all times, metaphorically speaking (or a cross on his back, if you prefer) and probably felt SUFFOCATED at times. Is that so hard to understand, how fame (especially at that level) can be a burden? How flashbulbs hitting your eyes, day after day after day, for YEARS, can wear you out? How the hordes of paparazzi and/or fans can start to get on your nerves? How being trapped in hotels can get OLD after a while?
MJ had a lot of freedom in some ways, but was also trapped by his fame and name (and still is) in other ways... When you say "Michael Jackson" to anyone, people immediately conjure up a certain image in their head - and everyone thinks they know the man! Everyone has an opinion, even though they may not know what they're talking about. Now how pleasant do you think it is to be gossip fodder for the entire world?! I'm sure MJ had moments when he told himself, "F*** it. I don't care what the press says, or what people think - especially if they aren't even interested in the truth. The ignoramuses can s*** my socks." <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I mean, wouldn't you (have such moments if you'd lived his life)?!
It's difficult for me to explain why...I think MJ is the kind of man who would behave like described in the book.
I also believe over the years he changed, maybe a lot.....we all change all the time....
2005 maybe changed him the most....
I believe Michael hided his real self from the public. Why else are we now asked to discover the man we never knew?!
High five!
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I KNOW, and they are EVERYWHERE <!-- s
On the thread/topic far back we were discussing the 4 years Michael talked about in the TII movie. <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6033<!-- l -->
Here are my thoughts on that subject.
This is for those who believe in the spiritual world. However for those who do not view this like some of us do, here is a more human (vs. spiritual) and surface explanation to the phenom of what is going on with the non-believers.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World<!-- m --> <!-- m -->http://www.huxley.net/studyaid/bnwbarron.html<!-- m --> It boils down to social conditioning from birth.
The biggest "hoax" towards humanity being played out on the world stage is from the biggest liar of all time.
The devil. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
BJ but... MJ conditioning of his own fans has probably got a greater hold on his fans than the media has. As the majority of fans seem to rule out any thoughts of him having faked his death... 'cos "He would never do such a thing"!
I agree with your 3 hoaxes though I feel that there are more elements into the Hoax that those 3 Hoaxes; I guess that those other elements could be example of hoaxes, Elvis could for example be a fake death example or maybe it is just an entertaining little Hoax... ?
Looking forward to WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF! This would be such an amazing way to give the message but please remember breaking News! I think the World will need a video and a live broadcast as well to BeLIEve!
THINK FOR YOURSELF should be the Army of Love marching song!
With L.O.V.E