I came into this thread at a part which was the end, now somewhere in the middle, and wondered why so many people were saying they didn't understand the title. When I read the OP, I didn't understand it either. I mean, yes, there are many hoaxes within the very first one, but the OP neither addresses nor suggests ANY of them. Instead, he suggests that MJ is using this adventure as an experiment in people observation. Sort of a "Hide and Watch".
Well, what else is new? He's been doing this for decades, here and there, in physical disguise. I can't remember the first time I heard/ read/ learned that he did this, but I thought he was a nut, until I realized that his "Bigness", prevented people from being, not only themselves with him, but prevented people from being honest in expressing an opinion about his work.
I still believe he is a capital "N" nut, but he is on to something, and it has intrigued me to no end!
One time, his people planned some "meet and greet" over, I think, his first action Pepsi commercial or something. IDK. I can't remember. Too busy burning brain cells over the fact he was doing something to make EVERYone seriously angry ON PURPOSE. Ofttimes the lavish food at these things makes them tolerable while everyone gets together and strokes the artist for his work...Does anyone recall this ? I know I am missing some detail...
Anyway, what does MJ serve his guests? Pepsi and dishes of peanuts. He'd told his people it would be something healthy or something, and, not only that, but there was NO alcohol--not even a little wine, to put his guests out of their hours and hours of misery!! EVERY body was so angry, and dismayed, because MJ NEVER made an appearance, for folks to meet him!
The thing that AMAZES me, is that he actually did walk right into the midst of this angry mob, disguised as an older man, and sought out their honest opinions of this goofball who has blown his own party off! What kind of person WANTS to hear people say mean things about him???
What is more amazing, is, that even though he knows it's how they really feel, and CAN'T slough it off as, "oh, they didn't MEAN it", it does not affect his confidence in himself at all. Forget rhinoceros skin...the guy has mental armor which is otherworldly. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> just think, if everyone was able to be that resistant to criticism; able to believe in themselves so much that no fiery dart could penetrate their peace, or twist their joy into resentment or revenge! War would be over, if everyone felt so secure, so good about themselves that even "Fightin' Words", rolled off like water off the back of a duck! Amazing.
And...of course rumors flew, about the kind of host he was, and that was that...
I also heard this same old man walked about public parks to ask folk what they thought about Michael Jackson....Oh, yeah, he can spot a liar a mile away, because, like Houdini, HE does it best. He has reverse-engineered the Fake, in order to perfect Illusion. I think he was just patronized so much, that the Truth became an obsession, calling for creative intervention. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But he is a nut <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I mean in a comedic sort of way. One would have to be to create an alter ego of himself for 30+ years and present him to the public as real. He created his OWN Pinnocchio(only a big liar whose nose shrinks, not the other way!), and gave him all kinds of personal details, such as his likes and dislikes, how he loves everybody and is shy and sweet and vulnerable, has no love life, lonely, misunderstood, terrifed of his dad, hates the way he looks, and keeps getting surgeries to tweak that, and on and on ...This is Hoax #1, I believe.
Hoax #2 is him being dead. MJ isn't dead, Pinnocchio is! The reason everyone was so upset, and some still are, is because people BELIEVED his Illusion, (HE'S GOOD!!)and will NOT be disillusioned, by people saying he is calculating enough to have planned such a thing. Well...he is. He has "tick tocks" in between the tick tocks everyone else has in their brains. He is a musical and innovative genius. His mind MUST create. Idleness is pain. If you don't think he faked his alter ego's death, go rent "The Elephant Man". I was and am going to strip this movie for folks here, but I have felt some people just can't take it, yet. He IS calculating and doing many complex illusions on purpose! I wouldn't have believed it, if I had not seen this.
Some really delicate psyches associate calculating with evil. He's not evil. He's a joker, a nut. Notice how happy he is when he is doing a prank. I LOVE that ! Tell those unbelievers to try not to take themselves so seriously (if this is hard to take). It is supposed to entertain us, not hurt! This is the BIGGEST Adventure Park the world has ever been IN. We are learning things we needed to know, learning how to see the true and recognize the false everywhere in our environment. Adulthood is ABOUT disillusionment. You are a sitting duck for evil unless you DO put away childish things <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> . Yeah, retain your sweetness, your dreams, your wonder; but open your eyes, and toughen up. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Think: how could that child, Pinnocchio, i.e., "Michael Jackson" put together a Solo, multi billion dollar enterprise and rule the entertainment world, if he was such a delicate pushover, playing with butterflies??????
Hoax#3 is the Chandler thing, either the entire thing or the father's death or something.
Oh, and don't forget another Hoax, not certain which number, though, maybe actually the very first one <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The one where he began to convince people he was becoming lighter skinned. Look at the 80s interview with Ebony/Jet. It always bothered me that Mr. Perfectionist did that interview with makeup only on his face. It HAD to be on purpose. And, get this, one of the things they talk about is MJ doing some remake of the movie, The Elephant Man! Out of the blue! Why waste interview time(pricelessly rare!) talking about some movie he saw?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Naw, they planned this interview down to the last detail!Of course, he sweetly, bashfully says, "oh, no, no, well, maybe, tee hee" LIAR. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
He is doing this NOW. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I submit to you that this Pre-BAD(!!) makeup was a sort of Theatrical Mask to document for his proof, afterwards, the signal "Curtain Up". <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The show had begun...
Its her:
I love your posts, but sometimes I think we psycho-analyze Michael too much... All people have different facets, and they all come out at different times, depending on the context. I don't fully agree with the "alter ego" thing... It seems a fancy way of expressing a pretty simple idea. And people can actually be complex and simple at the same time - which I believe Michael was/is.
The reason for wanting to observe the world as a normal person is quite simple, and MJ explained it in an interview: Everyone acts in a certain way (usually fake) when meeting "Michael Jackson" (the star, the icon). And Michael wanted to relate to people in a normal way, and just be Mike, without always being put under a microscope or be asked to dance or talk about his music. And yeah, maybe he wanted the TRUTH about who people are and what they think... Not a fake show. I think that's understandable, and it's laudable that he didn't let the hype go to his head, and didn't insulate himself from the real world.
"The Elephant Man" movie was only a small part of that 1987 Ebony interview, and the interviewer actually asked many other good questions. I wasn't surprised when this came along... I felt the interview was pretty fluid. Now I'm not sure when the rumors came out that Michael wanted to buy the bones of the EM, but maybe it was around that time, and Michael simply wanted to clarify/explain why he was interested in the bones and in the story of the Elephant Man?
The fact that we see/make up fancy explanations for some things doesn't mean those explanations are true. There could be other, simpler explanations...
I don't deny that MJ was a smart, savvy and calculating (not evil, indeed) man. He HAD to be! The man was a freakin' industry in and by himself, and had to deal with lots of stuff - much of which we can barely begin to imagine. But I don't believe he created an "alter ego" that had nothing to do with who he was in essence! There WAS a rather pure, sensitive, gentle and gentlemanly side to him... There's just too much evidence for that. A SIDE. As I said in the beginning, people have FACETS.
No, no, I guess I didn't say this right. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I don't mean MJ had another side to his REAL personality; I meant that he CREATED another, multi-faceted, fictional personality FOR his doubles, to become Michael Jackson, K.O.P., so he could go off and do his life, unhampered by the continual interruptions his fame bought him...He did this deliberately. He had us chasing a white Black guy, while HE the real one, slipped into the romance of anonymity, as his own dark self!! Not talking about any vitiligo or going there at all. Just saying he got an idea from it.
I am saying he cleverly put forth RUMOR that he was wearing lighter and lighter makeup, for one reason; easier to blend in with natural skin changes, less work for his makeup gal... WHATEVER... But, . the REAL reason was a misdirection to keep people from recognizing him--EVEN if they looked into his "fall in, right here" <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> eyes on the street!!!! their brains would not let them make the connection to MJ, because of course, we ALL know he was desperately doing what he could to manage the color of his self-proclaimed problem skin, and appearing to get LIGHTER AND LIGHTER. Every magician knows, you don't see what you don't expect to see... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Michael Jackson is the original Invisible Man!! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> He's a Master Magician. He's made everyone beLIEve he's alot lighter skinned than he actually is. Hence, the Man We Never Knew...(we never knew we'd been looking at fakes <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> )
Truthprevails, you probably don't buy into the possibility of doubles, eh?
This is why the rumor got started about MJ wanting to buy "Them Bones, Them Bones" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
MJ went to the London hospital which had them one time, to examine them. I have my secret theory, but, anyway, we don't know what kind of words were exchanged--whether or not he asked if they were for sale (I tend to think NOT), it was, either he or his people, who "let" that cat out, to DISGUISE the fact...that there were TWO of them. MJ would rather look doubly interested, than blow his cover, decades early! Whatever, either way, he was SO impressed by these things, that he went BACK ( Hi! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ) to examine them AGAIN, I think, on the same trip. That's the story, anyway.
Here is where it gets twisted...MJ has an artist's mind. He has a perfect image of what he saw the first time in his head--he could probably draw it. WHY would he go back? Any of us might need a second look, but not this genius. Anyway, he already knows it is difficult enough to get out ONCE. He would take all his mental notes at THAT time. But...but... everyone SAID MJ came back a second time. Did he? Think about it; he was SO impressed, he wanted to share it. Either with his TWIN or his double. They CAN'T very well go together <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Instead of people knowing there are two of them, they assumed he was doubly <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> interested in the bones. See? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Simple.
And I'm not psycho-analyzing him--not in this instance, anyway; I am saying he made up "Michael Jackson", K.O.P., a completely separate person, complete with a fictional persona. "Alter-ego was a figure of speech, as he is puppet master to this other persona.. Sorry. I am seeing double all the time now. I forget everyone doesn't.
With regard to the rest of the questions in that interview, they have MJ written ALL over them. He said somewhere that he trusted the folks at Ebony/ Jet. They respected him and never stabbed him in the back. This was a mutual favor. Agreed that interview was one of his best, because HE composed most, if not all the questions, including the Elephant Man subject, which was a clue---yup, that far back, that the suicide /death-angle is not true, either. Yup, a clue, for fans.
As good as you think he is, he is waaaay better than that! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Listen to what he is being asked at the second he looks right at the camera two or three times <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> (Sorry, I've crammed my brain with too many items, these last 17 months; it's a serious mess in there <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> I think it was three times?) For years MJ didn't give interviews he couldn't control; remember that thing where he wouldn't talk to the journalist, but let little Janet speak the questions to him? Or that time he let Dileo speak for him (and his Hollywood shades?) <!-- s --><!-- s --> The chances of someone --some journalist, that far back, prophetically NAILING MJ's philosophy and mission in life are astronomical <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
The guy had pre-interview directives from Mike.
I believe the entire interview was to portray MJ as harmless, because he was launching his Bad tour which he KNEW would be a gigantic success and draw dangerous, suspicious "powers that be" to stalk him (and he was solo, now--no Bros. Any time a single agent draws seas of people, TPTB get shook up; they always think it is some kind of a power siege. MJ was simply heading that crap off. He didn't want their constituents' votes; he wanted their hearts. Aaawww.... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> )
I will hush now. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Actually, they don't.
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
Ps. They're over there on MJJC bashing 3T right now. These are half grown kids they're laying into!
I wonder what they had to say about the stun gun incident last spring. *shudder* <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Makes you wonder who that story was for now doesn't it?
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Actually, they don't.
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
Everything you said about the non-believers and their thinking towards The Jackson family can and does apply here on this forum towards the believers. It is not fair to point fingers and throw rocks at the fans over there @ MJJcommunity.
First take the plank out of your own eye before condeming and judgeing others.
This is not a arguement of your opinion.
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
If the excuse that it is different for us because we are investigating.
Well that doesn't mean that we should bash his (Mike's) family like I have seen more than a million times here on this forum.
ever wonder if we need to examine ourselves about whether we are able to stand by what we believe or whether we are inclined to be pulled in every which direction by the influence of others.make any sense?
To be strong, Faith need to be near to "unshakable" so it does indeed make sense to examine the strength of the underlying beliefs. If those are shaky then so will the Faith!
Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax?
...somehow reminds me of the film Inception where we have the concept of "a dream within a dream within a dream" and it takes a number of layers of inter-related dreams to really "plant" the idea.
Following the same logic, we have the concept of multiple hoaxes being linked to each other to unveil the truth--->
If MJ "died" on june 25th 2009 is one of the 3 hoaxes, what are the other 2 and how do they relate to the first one? (Hoax 2: the media is here to inform the public - Hoax 3: ??? )
Am I reading way too much into all of this?
With L.O.V.E
I came into this thread at a part which was the end, now somewhere in the middle, and wondered why so many people were saying they didn't understand the title. When I read the OP, I didn't understand it either. I mean, yes, there are many hoaxes within the very first one, but the OP neither addresses nor suggests ANY of them. Instead, he suggests that MJ is using this adventure as an experiment in people observation. Sort of a "Hide and Watch".
Well, what else is new? He's been doing this for decades, here and there, in physical disguise. I can't remember the first time I heard/ read/ learned that he did this, but I thought he was a nut, until I realized that his "Bigness", prevented people from being, not only themselves with him, but prevented people from being honest in expressing an opinion about his work.
I still believe he is a capital "N" nut, but he is on to something, and it has intrigued me to no end!
One time, his people planned some "meet and greet" over, I think, his first action Pepsi commercial or something. IDK. I can't remember. Too busy burning brain cells over the fact he was doing something to make EVERYone seriously angry ON PURPOSE. Ofttimes the lavish food at these things makes them tolerable while everyone gets together and strokes the artist for his work...Does anyone recall this ? I know I am missing some detail...
Anyway, what does MJ serve his guests? Pepsi and dishes of peanuts. He'd told his people it would be something healthy or something, and, not only that, but there was NO alcohol--not even a little wine, to put his guests out of their hours and hours of misery!! EVERY body was so angry, and dismayed, because MJ NEVER made an appearance, for folks to meet him!
The thing that AMAZES me, is that he actually did walk right into the midst of this angry mob, disguised as an older man, and sought out their honest opinions of this goofball who has blown his own party off! What kind of person WANTS to hear people say mean things about him???
What is more amazing, is, that even though he knows it's how they really feel, and CAN'T slough it off as, "oh, they didn't MEAN it", it does not affect his confidence in himself at all. Forget rhinoceros skin...the guy has mental armor which is otherworldly. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> just think, if everyone was able to be that resistant to criticism; able to believe in themselves so much that no fiery dart could penetrate their peace, or twist their joy into resentment or revenge! War would be over, if everyone felt so secure, so good about themselves that even "Fightin' Words", rolled off like water off the back of a duck! Amazing.
And...of course rumors flew, about the kind of host he was, and that was that...
I also heard this same old man walked about public parks to ask folk what they thought about Michael Jackson....Oh, yeah, he can spot a liar a mile away, because, like Houdini, HE does it best. He has reverse-engineered the Fake, in order to perfect Illusion. I think he was just patronized so much, that the Truth became an obsession, calling for creative intervention. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But he is a nut <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> . I mean in a comedic sort of way. One would have to be to create an alter ego of himself for 30+ years and present him to the public as real. He created his OWN Pinnocchio(only a big liar whose nose shrinks, not the other way!), and gave him all kinds of personal details, such as his likes and dislikes, how he loves everybody and is shy and sweet and vulnerable, has no love life, lonely, misunderstood, terrifed of his dad, hates the way he looks, and keeps getting surgeries to tweak that, and on and on ...This is Hoax #1, I believe.
Hoax #2 is him being dead. MJ isn't dead, Pinnocchio is! The reason everyone was so upset, and some still are, is because people BELIEVED his Illusion, (HE'S GOOD!!)and will NOT be disillusioned, by people saying he is calculating enough to have planned such a thing. Well...he is. He has "tick tocks" in between the tick tocks everyone else has in their brains. He is a musical and innovative genius. His mind MUST create. Idleness is pain. If you don't think he faked his alter ego's death, go rent "The Elephant Man". I was and am going to strip this movie for folks here, but I have felt some people just can't take it, yet. He IS calculating and doing many complex illusions on purpose! I wouldn't have believed it, if I had not seen this.
Some really delicate psyches associate calculating with evil. He's not evil. He's a joker, a nut. Notice how happy he is when he is doing a prank. I LOVE that ! Tell those unbelievers to try not to take themselves so seriously (if this is hard to take). It is supposed to entertain us, not hurt! This is the BIGGEST Adventure Park the world has ever been IN. We are learning things we needed to know, learning how to see the true and recognize the false everywhere in our environment. Adulthood is ABOUT disillusionment. You are a sitting duck for evil unless you DO put away childish things <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> . Yeah, retain your sweetness, your dreams, your wonder; but open your eyes, and toughen up. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Think: how could that child, Pinnocchio, i.e., "Michael Jackson" put together a Solo, multi billion dollar enterprise and rule the entertainment world, if he was such a delicate pushover, playing with butterflies??????
Hoax#3 is the Chandler thing, either the entire thing or the father's death or something.
Oh, and don't forget another Hoax, not certain which number, though, maybe actually the very first one <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The one where he began to convince people he was becoming lighter skinned. Look at the 80s interview with Ebony/Jet. It always bothered me that Mr. Perfectionist did that interview with makeup only on his face. It HAD to be on purpose. And, get this, one of the things they talk about is MJ doing some remake of the movie, The Elephant Man! Out of the blue! Why waste interview time(pricelessly rare!) talking about some movie he saw?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Naw, they planned this interview down to the last detail!Of course, he sweetly, bashfully says, "oh, no, no, well, maybe, tee hee" LIAR. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
He is doing this NOW. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I submit to you that this Pre-BAD(!!) makeup was a sort of Theatrical Mask to document for his proof, afterwards, the signal "Curtain Up". <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> The show had begun...
Its her, I am thrilled that you mentioned MJ donning disguises in order to obtain honest opinions.......IMO this hoax is his biggest market research activity to date. Being able to watch all of this unfold from behind the scenes and see how people act and react is giving him an advance 'preview' of what may happen when he finally does meet his maker and he gets to do it while he is still living!! He's so curious about human nature that he took the opportunity to see "who said what" and "who did what" .............. it ain't no use wondering about it when you're long gone, much better to 'see' it while you're here.
I think what's Michael doing is incredible, but when he will die for real - nobody is going to believe it <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Sorry, there's no laughing matter but I'm just thinking that even when he will be dead for real he will have the world hoaxed again <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and I would like to give my own interpretation by what I originally meant by 'Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax'. First off as I have mentioned before, MJ has been hoaxing the world for a long time..... he has painted a picture of what he wants people to see, whether that be in an interview or video or performance. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's just his nature, to be a joker and to 'play' with people. As we know, he likes creating the mystery and illusions as that is part of genuine showbusiness.........it is the entertainer's job to entertain. That hoax has been planned to sit inside his 'death' hoax...by showing the world at large images that tend to give the impression that he is not well, by leaking reports to the media of insomnia and prescription drug abuse, the stress of the tour, etc; it laid the foundation for the public to think 'at face value', his odd demise is totally plausible. (However, he was ingenious to leave enough clues for those who are objective, interested, and not conditioned by what has been presented by the media as fact, to recognise the hoax). Thirdly, my thoughts were that the 'death' hoax itself sits within the broader 'hoax' that is WORLDWIDE FREEDOM. It's a hoax because we are not really as 'free' as we THINK we are......mass media is brainwashing the public everyday and this is not a new concept.....say 'hello' to advertising and marketing. It's all about how receptive we are as individuals in allowing ourselves to be conditioned. It is confronting to not feel as 'free' as we think we are, but resistance to the idea in fact reveals just how entrenched the conditioning is already. This leads in nicely to the current situation with the non-believers. They have been conditioned: firstly by MJ himself (to view him a certain way), and then by the media, however it is ironic that all fans are well aware of how the media has lied about MJ time and again, yet the non-believers feel that the media didn't lie about his death......this is what I find astonishing. It's not a coincidence that MJ's 'death' hoax is intended to expose conditioning and corruption........it will be a world-wide wake up call. I really feel that MJ should record a song called WAKE UP and THINK FOR YOURSELF since the message will be digested more eagerly if it is in song form. It's an anthem that the world could really use right now!!
Thank you BlackJack for expressing so clear what we believe about Michael.
I have a feeling he will really make the song you're talking about.
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Actually, they don't.
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
Everything you said about the non-believers and their thinking towards The Jackson family can and does apply here on this forum towards the believers. It is not fair to point fingers and throw rocks at the fans over there @ MJJcommunity.
First take the plank out of your own eye before condeming and judgeing others.
This is not a arguement of your opinion.
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
If the excuse that it is different for us because we are investigating.
Well that doesn't mean that we should bash his (Mike's) family like I have seen more than a million times here on this forum.
Peace
I never said it didn't happen here. Don't put words in my mouth and then attack me for them. I am able to compare and contrast communities based on my own observations.
I'm not sure why you decided to attack me for stating what I have observed. You could call it an opinion if you want but it begs the question why you have such an extreme problem with that. My opinion was in response to Anna's opinion that the fans believe the Jackson Family. That's what people do on message boards, share opinions. We are not robots. Oh, and your line:
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
is also an opinion.
and closing a scathing retort to someone with "Peace" doesn't make it all ok.
I am not interested in fighting with anyone but I'll not be subject to an unsolicited thread pirate flaming either.
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Logically, the family has to talk about his 'death' to make it believable (more conditioning) and they are lying because MJ wants them to. Do the non-believers have no opinion why the brothers and Joe are literally laughing their heads off the day after 'losing' the biggest star in the world? I don't get it..... they believe the family, then bash the family. IMO these fans are going to get the biggest wake-up call of all.... and they need it. We, on the other hand are already expecting it, we have come to 'discover the man' for better or for worse, and can fully support him on his return. The non-believers who have not 'come around' before the BAM will have quite a bit of processing to do and will need to undertake some serious inward-evaluating on themselves, to actually comprehend the enormity of this HIStory in the making...... hopefully they will learn and grow as individuals, and be the better for it. Who would of thought of MJ as a teacher.......I don't mind!!
Who would of thought of MJ as a teacher.......I don't mind!!
Indeed....before June 25th maybe nobody.....
I want to say something and I can't find the right words in english
I feel a connection with many people here. Even if I don't know who you guys are, I just know you are all special.
I am thrilled to discover more and more every day how much we think alike....about MJ and about things in general.
This is a new experience for me..... most of the people I personally know have different ideas or have no ideas at all <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> .
Michael is a special kind of teacher...... he doesn't pressure you to do your homework .....but he's there for you NOW and that's just unbelievable.
If Michael is really alive, I think he would want to know our opinions, believers and non-believers, so he would read forums, especially this one.
I also think he would try to make us say more, to ask questions about matters that concern him. Just like he used to disguise himself as an old man to get people's honest opinion about him <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .
Maybe he even adjusts the planning by our ideas and expectations sometimes.
Sometimes I have the feeling that he plays ping-pong with us...or I am totally losing my mind.....
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
I know....I am lurking from now and then too on MJJC. Yes, they consider the family to be like you say, that's true. Also, when you say that they consider this to be the truth, yes, they do, but at the same time I stop and think- we consider them close minded and we find unbelievable to see what opinions they have and what they consider to be the truth, but then again do we OWN the truth? No, we don't In fact we don't know anything more or less than them. It's a difference only in perception and understanding. But in fact, none owns the truth, we cannot know for sure, at least that's my honest perception. Each side believes it owns the right truth. But in fact no one probably does, because we have no confirmation we are right or wrong.That's what keeps me always in doubt till the end of everything.
I see what you mean now... I don't believe, however, that Michael had a twin - or a double. And some people who used to believe in the double theory (on this forum) have since given up on it. I believe Michael really had vitiligo... There are many photos showing that, people who knew MJ saying it, plus the hats and long-sleeved shirts and umbrellas... AND the fact that Michael really didn't speak much about it! He kept quiet (and let the "bleaching" rumors go on and on) until he was pretty much forced to explain himself. As for the twin theory, come on... Do you think no one in Gary would know? Would Katherine hide that other kid from birth (and keep hiding him) or what?! No one knew, when Mike was 5 or even 10, how big he'd become one day... And finding a perfect double for MJ wouldn't have been easy. It's not just the physique, but also the voice, the sense of humor, the mannerisms, the way of walking and talking...
I don't doubt that MJ had input into the questions he was asked in that Ebony interview, and I didn't deny that in my previous post... I noticed that he had a good relationship with Ebony over the years, and gave them a few interviews. But we don't know why he wanted to speak of the Elephant Man... We can only hypothesize.
If you're truly trying to say that a double/twin replaced the real MJ at one point, and MJ kept his original skin color and retreated from the fame & lived a quiet life or something, I cannot go down that road. I gave that theory a thought, but had to dismiss it for MANY reasons. And my impression is that not many people on this forum would go down that road, at this point in time. If I'm wrong, they are free to chime in and express their beliefs.
Its her, I am thrilled that you mentioned MJ donning disguises in order to obtain honest opinions.......IMO this hoax is his biggest market research activity to date. Being able to watch all of this unfold from behind the scenes and see how people act and react is giving him an advance 'preview' of what may happen when he finally does meet his maker and he gets to do it while he is still living!! He's so curious about human nature that he took the opportunity to see "who said what" and "who did what" .............. it ain't no use wondering about it when you're long gone, much better to 'see' it while you're here.
I think what's Michael doing is incredible, but when he will die for real - nobody is going to believe it <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Sorry, there's no laughing matter but I'm just thinking that even when he will be dead for real he will have the world hoaxed again <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Love you crazy kid....
Gina, if I would be able to think like Michael, I would arrange that nobody ever knows that I am dead "for real", especially now that he knows how things are developing and happening after he "died". It must be possible to turn away at the end of your life from most of the people that know you. And when there is only a small, dedicated and trustfull number of people (family and friends) are left, then just to disappear for real (die). I would do it that way <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Like Blackjack said : better to see the whole picture of what will happen after you "left" while you are alive.
Besides Gina, he is watching us now, interacting with us, here, on this site, and on other sites.
We don't know him. But I am sure he is here. He is so curious (and I would be).
And there is no limit to imagination, vision, fantasy. I sometimes get scared of myself.... <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Going back to the 1987 Ebony interview:
The only time I see MJ looking into the camera is around 3:35, right after the camera zooms in on him (at 3:33). The discussion at that point is about the "Bad" song and video... And Michael looks into the camera while the interviewer is phrasing his question ("Now I know you didn't write the video..."). I don't see any significance in that, so I don't know what you meant in your post. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
OK, I can't be silent <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I'm looking at this interview you posted and, in the light of the latest ideas about Michael's psychology, at some moments I think his lips are saying one thing while his eyes are saying something else.......
How I would like to know what are his thoughts behind that lovely smile <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
First off as I have mentioned before, MJ has been hoaxing the world for a long time..... he has painted a picture of what he wants people to see, whether that be in an interview or video or performance. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's just his nature, to be a joker and to 'play' with people. As we know, he likes creating the mystery and illusions as that is part of genuine showbusiness.........it is the entertainer's job to entertain. That hoax has been planned to sit inside his 'death' hoax...by showing the world at large images that tend to give the impression that he is not well, by leaking reports to the media of insomnia and prescription drug abuse, the stress of the tour, etc;
What is your opinion, BJ? Has Michael ever had any kind of drug addiction or problem recently or in the past?Or as everyone says, that after the Pepsi incident in 1984 he became addicted to painkillers (like Mrs. Katherine says)?
This leads in nicely to the current situation with the non-believers. They have been conditioned: firstly by MJ himself (to view him a certain way), and then by the media, however it is ironic that all fans are well aware of how the media has lied about MJ time and again, yet the non-believers feel that the media didn't lie about his death......this is what I find astonishing.
Do you think that Michael portrayed a false image of himself sometimes on purpose but where? On stage or off stage?
I agree that what people see outside is far from how he is in fact. A lot of people think they know each and every detail of his life and how he would act or not. In fact they know nothing. I am pretty sure that Michael, the man, is someone people never reached to.A lot of fans think they know him. They do not. And they will never find out from other's mouths or from TV.
Personally, I can't wait for the next 'hoax within a hoax'; we're so good at spotting them on this forum that I'm wondering how the non-believers do not 'see' what we do. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from anyone who can shed light on this phenomena, as all fans of MJ are exposed to the same information but it is obviously interpreted differently. As I've never been on the other forum, I'd like to know why they are so convinced of his demise.
BJ, i am on the MJ site too and there you can't say anything about the hoax, they will say to you that Michael would never do this to his children, to his family...They would treat u like you are a crazy person to think he is alive.They don't know what they are missing of not believing he is alive !I was one of them at the beginning , but i never said anything rude to the ones who believed from the start that there is a possibility that MJ could still be alive.I was afraid to believe this but i made a big mistake , I am sure he is still with us.I opened my eyes .Sometimes i have my doubts of course, but I'm always coming back to the fact that he can't be gone.
Well, I don't think all the fans are exposed to the same information. Only those who have access to Internet. I really don't know how fans/people in certain regions in Africa or any other "third world" counties could possibly have any idea that Mr. Jackson is alive, or even could be alive.
And it is true that on MJ site it has become a real "witch hunt". Every time we did suggest a little bit about him being alive, our thread or post was removed. Not in the beginning, but something changed and then certain members came to our specific thread (Europe) and we were afraid to say anything to that regard.
"He would never do that to his children and family and fans".
How would we know what he is capable of doing ? He can do all the things that we do NOT expect, because we usually stay in the box, and he likes to jump "out of the box" (IMO). I will support him, always.
As some of you know I've had to be away from home and internet access quite a lot recently and when I've come back for a few days and tried to catch up, I've been getting more and more puzzled by the way the hoax is going.
What is MJ playing at? Is the 'King of Pop' dead? Is there in fact a 'man we never knew' or is that part of the hoax too? I thought one of the reasons for the hoax was to lay the KOP side of him to rest, but here we are in the middle of a (probably MJ engineered) storm over new songs (isit/isn't it MJ?) and videos (that are removed almost as soon as they are posted) and a DVD set about to be released that is just going to put the sexy KOP image right back in the forefront of everyone's mind. (OK, my mind!) (Hell, with Come Together on it, what else could be the motivation?!)
I don't understand him!
All I can think is that all this hoopla is not for OUR benefit at all, but for the rest of the world, to put him back in their minds, before he makes his next move ...... maybe??
Well, I don't think all the fans are exposed to the same information. Only those who have access to Internet. I really don't know how fans/people in certain regions in Africa or any other "third world" counties could possibly have any idea that Mr. Jackson is alive, or even could be alive.
And it is true that on MJ site it has become a real "witch hunt". Every time we did suggest a little bit about him being alive, our thread or post was removed. Not in the beginning, but something changed and then certain members came to our specific thread (Europe) and we were afraid to say anything to that regard.
"He would never do that to his children and family and fans".
How would we know what he is capable of doing ? He can do all the things that we do NOT expect, because we usually stay in the box, and he likes to jump "out of the box" (IMO). I will support him, always.
I've become ALLERGIC to this sentence, it drives me insane. Everytime I hear some people saying "he would never do that to his children" I feel like pulling my hair out of my head, WHO on earth EVER said he LEFT his children?! I just cannot understand where did that come from in their minds. The first reaction they have it's this, like it's a pre-made statement they use all the same, all the time. Who said he faked his death and his family and children have no idea of him being alive?There are some people who simply are not ABLE to think out of that bubble they live in.In their concept he fakes his death and runs away from the family, from his children, in a monstrous way to let them think he's dead while enjoying his life somewhere else.That's what they have in minds probably.
"He would never do that to his fans". Really? The man ows nothing to anyone. They portray him as someone who just has to dance by their rythm. It drives me insane! His no one's "employee" and is free to do whatever he wants. For them he must corespond to THEIR definition of "he would". What if he must not? That's why some fans drive me mad because they simply think they own each and every piece of him and they think they know a man they NEVER knew or had any idea of. EVER. They think they know his each and every next move when in fact they have no idea who he is. Most of them NEVER had.
I am sorry, I am seriously angry. I put myself in Michael's shoes and I would go mad to see how people think they know me when they have no idea about anything, and never had.
If MJ created this hoax to see how people behave i hope he put in the equation that people behave different in the internet in many cases and under many circumstances and are, in fact, conditionated by the medium <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> and even create pseudo lifes or their ideal profile.
That view of "human nature" could not be accurate at all.
Internet creates a bareer interfering in the communication.
I believe that during all this months we have been exposed to many different individuals displaying different behavioural profiles approaching the patterns of recognition for each one of them.
As an example, I could write wonderful words about MJ in my virtual life and communication but in the real world I could be a MJ hater who wishes him and his community the worst.
That understanding of "human nature" in the virtual world is not accurate.
I think that we need to step back and look at the big picture... (stolen from Dr. Conrad Murray on twitter) ... lol
... because maybe that thinking too much...
Gema for what you have said... I tend to believe that people allow themselves to speak their truth on the WWW more than anywhere else... because it is anonymous... of course in order to get the temperature of what you are investigating/studying... you have to go on specific places of the web not in the socializing forums/sites or the likes where people tend to put themselves in a "different light" for example ... well this certainly deserves more reflection. Going to sleep I'm very tired today.
Yes, but not only media has been talking about his "death" without any backup, but also the family.The fans know how media has lied about every single detail of his life, but they are not the only ones to talk about his death. The family does too. Since day one, repeatedly, and they still do. The fans believe the family. You know what I'm saying?If we are honest here, when his own mother comes and talks about her son's death and releases a book in his memory, do you think the fans will go "no, she's faking it"?
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Actually, they don't.
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
Everything you said about the non-believers and their thinking towards The Jackson family can and does apply here on this forum towards the believers. It is not fair to point fingers and throw rocks at the fans over there @ MJJcommunity.
First take the plank out of your own eye before condeming and judgeing others.
This is not a arguement of your opinion.
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
If the excuse that it is different for us because we are investigating.
Well that doesn't mean that we should bash his (Mike's) family like I have seen more than a million times here on this forum.
Peace
I never said it didn't happen here. Don't put words in my mouth and then attack me for them. I am able to compare and contrast communities based on my own observations.
I'm not sure why you decided to attack me for stating what I have observed. You could call it an opinion if you want but it begs the question why you have such an extreme problem with that. My opinion was in response to Anna's opinion that the fans believe the Jackson Family. That's what people do on message boards, share opinions. We are not robots. Oh, and your line:
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
is also an opinion.
and closing a scathing retort to someone with "Peace" doesn't make it all ok.
I am not interested in fighting with anyone but I'll not be subject to an unsolicited thread pirate flaming either.
This is not a arguement of your opinion.
Sorry you felt attacked and I wasn't putting words into your mouth. I was expressing my feelings about what you said that is all.
Peace
Comments
No, no, I guess I didn't say this right. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I don't mean MJ had another side to his REAL personality; I meant that he CREATED another, multi-faceted, fictional personality FOR his doubles, to become Michael Jackson, K.O.P., so he could go off and do his life, unhampered by the continual interruptions his fame bought him...He did this deliberately. He had us chasing a white Black guy, while HE the real one, slipped into the romance of anonymity, as his own dark self!! Not talking about any vitiligo or going there at all. Just saying he got an idea from it.
I am saying he cleverly put forth RUMOR that he was wearing lighter and lighter makeup, for one reason; easier to blend in with natural skin changes, less work for his makeup gal... WHATEVER... But, . the REAL reason was a misdirection to keep people from recognizing him--EVEN if they looked into his "fall in, right here" <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> eyes on the street!!!! their brains would not let them make the connection to MJ, because of course, we ALL know he was desperately doing what he could to manage the color of his self-proclaimed problem skin, and appearing to get LIGHTER AND LIGHTER. Every magician knows, you don't see what you don't expect to see... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Michael Jackson is the original Invisible Man!! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> He's a Master Magician. He's made everyone beLIEve he's alot lighter skinned than he actually is. Hence, the Man We Never Knew...(we never knew we'd been looking at fakes <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> )
Truthprevails, you probably don't buy into the possibility of doubles, eh?
This is why the rumor got started about MJ wanting to buy "Them Bones, Them Bones" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
MJ went to the London hospital which had them one time, to examine them. I have my secret theory, but, anyway, we don't know what kind of words were exchanged--whether or not he asked if they were for sale (I tend to think NOT), it was, either he or his people, who "let" that cat out, to DISGUISE the fact...that there were TWO of them. MJ would rather look doubly interested, than blow his cover, decades early! Whatever, either way, he was SO impressed by these things, that he went BACK ( Hi! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ) to examine them AGAIN, I think, on the same trip. That's the story, anyway.
Here is where it gets twisted...MJ has an artist's mind. He has a perfect image of what he saw the first time in his head--he could probably draw it. WHY would he go back? Any of us might need a second look, but not this genius. Anyway, he already knows it is difficult enough to get out ONCE. He would take all his mental notes at THAT time. But...but... everyone SAID MJ came back a second time. Did he? Think about it; he was SO impressed, he wanted to share it. Either with his TWIN or his double. They CAN'T very well go together <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Instead of people knowing there are two of them, they assumed he was doubly <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> interested in the bones. See? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Simple.
And I'm not psycho-analyzing him--not in this instance, anyway; I am saying he made up "Michael Jackson", K.O.P., a completely separate person, complete with a fictional persona. "Alter-ego was a figure of speech, as he is puppet master to this other persona.. Sorry. I am seeing double all the time now. I forget everyone doesn't.
With regard to the rest of the questions in that interview, they have MJ written ALL over them. He said somewhere that he trusted the folks at Ebony/ Jet. They respected him and never stabbed him in the back. This was a mutual favor. Agreed that interview was one of his best, because HE composed most, if not all the questions, including the Elephant Man subject, which was a clue---yup, that far back, that the suicide /death-angle is not true, either. Yup, a clue, for fans.
As good as you think he is, he is waaaay better than that! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s
Listen to what he is being asked at the second he looks right at the camera two or three times <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> (Sorry, I've crammed my brain with too many items, these last 17 months; it's a serious mess in there <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> I think it was three times?) For years MJ didn't give interviews he couldn't control; remember that thing where he wouldn't talk to the journalist, but let little Janet speak the questions to him? Or that time he let Dileo speak for him (and his Hollywood shades?) <!-- s
The guy had pre-interview directives from Mike.
I believe the entire interview was to portray MJ as harmless, because he was launching his Bad tour which he KNEW would be a gigantic success and draw dangerous, suspicious "powers that be" to stalk him (and he was solo, now--no Bros. Any time a single agent draws seas of people, TPTB get shook up; they always think it is some kind of a power siege. MJ was simply heading that crap off. He didn't want their constituents' votes; he wanted their hearts. Aaawww.... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> )
I will hush now. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
So it's not the media alone to put the blame on.
Actually, they don't.
The Jackson family (collective), to put it nicely, is in very low esteem in the MJ fan community. In short... MJ fans bash the Jackson Family at nearly every opportunity, calling them liars, gold diggers, and leaches.
They don't believe a word the family says. So why do they suddenly believe the Jacksons when they say he is dead?
I didn't quite grasp the severity of and how widespread of an opinion this is until I started lurking on MJJC. I have read pages and pages and more pages of members there bashing and making fun of the Jackson family. It's so common a belief, it's considered the truth in those circles. A large and outspoken faction of MJ Fans consider ALL the Jacksons lying, goldigging, leaches.
Pretty much the only time they have believed the Jacksons weren't lying is when they talk about MJ being dead. Ironic.
I wonder what they had to say about the stun gun incident last spring. *shudder* <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Makes you wonder who that story was for now doesn't it?
First take the plank out of your own eye before condeming and judgeing others.
This is not a arguement of your opinion.
I am speaking fact about the reality that no one is better than the other.
If the excuse that it is different for us because we are investigating.
Well that doesn't mean that we should bash his (Mike's) family like I have seen more than a million times here on this forum.
Peace
I think what's Michael doing is incredible, but when he will die for real - nobody is going to believe it <!-- s
Sorry, there's no laughing matter but I'm just thinking that even when he will be dead for real he will have the world hoaxed again <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Love you crazy kid....
I have a feeling he will really make the song you're talking about.
I never said it didn't happen here. Don't put words in my mouth and then attack me for them. I am able to compare and contrast communities based on my own observations.
I'm not sure why you decided to attack me for stating what I have observed. You could call it an opinion if you want but it begs the question why you have such an extreme problem with that. My opinion was in response to Anna's opinion that the fans believe the Jackson Family. That's what people do on message boards, share opinions. We are not robots. Oh, and your line:
is also an opinion.
and closing a scathing retort to someone with "Peace" doesn't make it all ok.
I am not interested in fighting with anyone but I'll not be subject to an unsolicited thread pirate flaming either.
Logically, the family has to talk about his 'death' to make it believable (more conditioning) and they are lying because MJ wants them to. Do the non-believers have no opinion why the brothers and Joe are literally laughing their heads off the day after 'losing' the biggest star in the world? I don't get it..... they believe the family, then bash the family. IMO these fans are going to get the biggest wake-up call of all.... and they need it. We, on the other hand are already expecting it, we have come to 'discover the man' for better or for worse, and can fully support him on his return. The non-believers who have not 'come around' before the BAM will have quite a bit of processing to do and will need to undertake some serious inward-evaluating on themselves, to actually comprehend the enormity of this HIStory in the making...... hopefully they will learn and grow as individuals, and be the better for it. Who would of thought of MJ as a teacher.......I don't mind!!
Indeed....before June 25th maybe nobody.....
I want to say something and I can't find the right words in english
I feel a connection with many people here. Even if I don't know who you guys are, I just know you are all special.
I am thrilled to discover more and more every day how much we think alike....about MJ and about things in general.
This is a new experience for me..... most of the people I personally know have different ideas or have no ideas at all <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> .
Michael is a special kind of teacher...... he doesn't pressure you to do your homework .....but he's there for you NOW and that's just unbelievable.
I also think he would try to make us say more, to ask questions about matters that concern him. Just like he used to disguise himself as an old man to get people's honest opinion about him <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> .
Maybe he even adjusts the planning by our ideas and expectations sometimes.
Sometimes I have the feeling that he plays ping-pong with us...or I am totally losing my mind.....
I see what you mean now... I don't believe, however, that Michael had a twin - or a double. And some people who used to believe in the double theory (on this forum) have since given up on it. I believe Michael really had vitiligo... There are many photos showing that, people who knew MJ saying it, plus the hats and long-sleeved shirts and umbrellas... AND the fact that Michael really didn't speak much about it! He kept quiet (and let the "bleaching" rumors go on and on) until he was pretty much forced to explain himself. As for the twin theory, come on... Do you think no one in Gary would know? Would Katherine hide that other kid from birth (and keep hiding him) or what?! No one knew, when Mike was 5 or even 10, how big he'd become one day... And finding a perfect double for MJ wouldn't have been easy. It's not just the physique, but also the voice, the sense of humor, the mannerisms, the way of walking and talking...
I don't doubt that MJ had input into the questions he was asked in that Ebony interview, and I didn't deny that in my previous post... I noticed that he had a good relationship with Ebony over the years, and gave them a few interviews. But we don't know why he wanted to speak of the Elephant Man... We can only hypothesize.
If you're truly trying to say that a double/twin replaced the real MJ at one point, and MJ kept his original skin color and retreated from the fame & lived a quiet life or something, I cannot go down that road. I gave that theory a thought, but had to dismiss it for MANY reasons. And my impression is that not many people on this forum would go down that road, at this point in time. If I'm wrong, they are free to chime in and express their beliefs.
Gina, if I would be able to think like Michael, I would arrange that nobody ever knows that I am dead "for real", especially now that he knows how things are developing and happening after he "died". It must be possible to turn away at the end of your life from most of the people that know you. And when there is only a small, dedicated and trustfull number of people (family and friends) are left, then just to disappear for real (die). I would do it that way <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Like Blackjack said : better to see the whole picture of what will happen after you "left" while you are alive.
Besides Gina, he is watching us now, interacting with us, here, on this site, and on other sites.
We don't know him. But I am sure he is here. He is so curious (and I would be).
And there is no limit to imagination, vision, fantasy. I sometimes get scared of myself.... <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Going back to the 1987 Ebony interview:
The only time I see MJ looking into the camera is around 3:35, right after the camera zooms in on him (at 3:33). The discussion at that point is about the "Bad" song and video... And Michael looks into the camera while the interviewer is phrasing his question ("Now I know you didn't write the video..."). I don't see any significance in that, so I don't know what you meant in your post. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
[youtube:29h1ll37]
I'm looking at this interview you posted and, in the light of the latest ideas about Michael's psychology, at some moments I think his lips are saying one thing while his eyes are saying something else.......
How I would like to know what are his thoughts behind that lovely smile <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Do you think that Michael portrayed a false image of himself sometimes on purpose but where? On stage or off stage?
I agree that what people see outside is far from how he is in fact. A lot of people think they know each and every detail of his life and how he would act or not. In fact they know nothing. I am pretty sure that Michael, the man, is someone people never reached to.A lot of fans think they know him. They do not. And they will never find out from other's mouths or from TV.
Well, I don't think all the fans are exposed to the same information. Only those who have access to Internet. I really don't know how fans/people in certain regions in Africa or any other "third world" counties could possibly have any idea that Mr. Jackson is alive, or even could be alive.
And it is true that on MJ site it has become a real "witch hunt". Every time we did suggest a little bit about him being alive, our thread or post was removed. Not in the beginning, but something changed and then certain members came to our specific thread (Europe) and we were afraid to say anything to that regard.
"He would never do that to his children and family and fans".
How would we know what he is capable of doing ? He can do all the things that we do NOT expect, because we usually stay in the box, and he likes to jump "out of the box" (IMO). I will support him, always.
What is MJ playing at? Is the 'King of Pop' dead? Is there in fact a 'man we never knew' or is that part of the hoax too? I thought one of the reasons for the hoax was to lay the KOP side of him to rest, but here we are in the middle of a (probably MJ engineered) storm over new songs (isit/isn't it MJ?) and videos (that are removed almost as soon as they are posted) and a DVD set about to be released that is just going to put the sexy KOP image right back in the forefront of everyone's mind. (OK, my mind!) (Hell, with Come Together on it, what else could be the motivation?!)
I don't understand him!
All I can think is that all this hoopla is not for OUR benefit at all, but for the rest of the world, to put him back in their minds, before he makes his next move ...... maybe??
"He would never do that to his fans". Really? The man ows nothing to anyone. They portray him as someone who just has to dance by their rythm. It drives me insane! His no one's "employee" and is free to do whatever he wants. For them he must corespond to THEIR definition of "he would". What if he must not? That's why some fans drive me mad because they simply think they own each and every piece of him and they think they know a man they NEVER knew or had any idea of. EVER. They think they know his each and every next move when in fact they have no idea who he is. Most of them NEVER had.
I am sorry, I am seriously angry. I put myself in Michael's shoes and I would go mad to see how people think they know me when they have no idea about anything, and never had.
That view of "human nature" could not be accurate at all.
Internet creates a bareer interfering in the communication.
I believe that during all this months we have been exposed to many different individuals displaying different behavioural profiles approaching the patterns of recognition for each one of them.
As an example, I could write wonderful words about MJ in my virtual life and communication but in the real world I could be a MJ hater who wishes him and his community the worst.
That understanding of "human nature" in the virtual world is not accurate.
... because maybe that thinking too much...
Gema for what you have said... I tend to believe that people allow themselves to speak their truth on the WWW more than anywhere else... because it is anonymous... of course in order to get the temperature of what you are investigating/studying... you have to go on specific places of the web not in the socializing forums/sites or the likes where people tend to put themselves in a "different light" for example ... well this certainly deserves more reflection. Going to sleep I'm very tired today.
Sorry you felt attacked and I wasn't putting words into your mouth. I was expressing my feelings about what you said that is all.
Peace