No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
Ok <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> so don't worry I really feel that it's about the whole world and not only Michael Jackson. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I also feel it's about the whole world, or one part of it, I'm just worried about the outcome.
Okay, the Jackson family seems to be pretty satisfied, it looks like everything is going okay, but I guess I will end worrying when I finally will know the truth.
No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
Well, we don't really know what God thinks about different kind of lies in different circumstances. I just hope Michael will be happy.
About reality - I don't really get what you mean, sorry. I mean basically I understand it <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> , but what is your point?
No problem. But why do you wish he made a film instead? Just curious. I mean, he did make a film (TII) but stopping there would not be very innovative (in Michael Jackson standards). Plus, he's been trying to convey a message through his music for years and people still don't get it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My wish is that the fans could leave their emotions behind and see this for what it really is. Hopefully that will happen in due time.
But just to clarify, I am talking about the hoax in general and not the oxygen chamber and elephant bones thing that was originally in question. In regards to those, I do think it's possible that they were made up by Mike himself. Perhaps he just wanted to see how much ridiculous stuff people would believe.
"Why not just tell people I'm an alien from Mars. Tell them I
eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight. They'll believe
anything you say, because you're a reporter. But if I, Michael Jackson, were
to say, 'I'm an alien from Mars and I eat live chickens and do a voodoo dance at midnight,'
people would say, 'Oh, man, that Michael Jackson is nuts. He's cracked up. You can't believe a damn word that comes out of his mouth.'" -MJ
I just edited my post after you started to answer <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
Well, we don't really know what God thinks about different kind of lies in different circumstances. I just hope Michael will be happy.
About reality - I don't really get what you mean, sorry. I mean basically I understand it <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> , but what is your point?
My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media
That is correct...She said it was a survival tactic for him...So that he could get where he needed to go in his career..
Oprah asked her why Michael would say it was fine to share his bed with children...She mentioned that Michael would sometimes say things to be defiant because he was so angry..
I find this to be interesting..
It's like Michael creates a false image of himself so he can protect his true self...Which is understandable in my opinion
I was just thinking about something else I heard somewhere ( I forget where I heard/read it)...But I heard somewhere that the whole Martin Bashir interview was planned by Michael...I heard that he wanted his image to look bad for some reason...Has anyone else heard this?, I am wondering if there is any truth to that.
LMP said Michael is a master at manipulating the media and I had heard before that it was him who started those rumors - to create a mystery. I also remember reading that when he was giving the tabloids the oxygen chamber and elephant man stories that he wanted them to pepper in the word "bizarre".
Perhaps it backfired on him but it kept people wondering which is what his goal was, I think.
And speaking of starting rumors, who do you think started the rumor back in Dec '08/Jan '09 that MJ "would be dead in 6 months"? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Wow, I always wonder who would have predicted MJ's death six months before it happened. I think you just answered that question for me. Thanks so much, Andrea. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
Sorry, I still don't understand... If you think (as you said) it's a little off-topic, can you explain it to me in a private message please? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> With some example please, so I can finally get it <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
Sorry, I still don't understand... If you think (as you said) it's a little off-topic, can you explain it to me in a private message please? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> With some example please, so I can finally get it <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
No problem, check your inbox <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge.
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
If Michael started rumors, why not start rumours that he was on drugs, and he took propofol, to sleep. If it wasn't true about the elephant man etc... this is not true either. Michael knew what he was doing, these rumors where his escape.
I think that when/if Michael BAMs, he will definitely have some explaining to do and I'm sure that his explanation will be quite profound and many people will accept it whatever it is. Many won't, but Michael knows this. I don't think Michael is a bad person for lying - he has his reasons and only he knows for sure what those reasons are. And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. He is very brave for taking all the risks involved with faking his death.
I think that we are an integral part of the hoax, he needs the believers to figure out the clues he left for us, to help spread awareness of the evils going on in the world and to vindicate him for all the lies that were said about him. When he BAMs, he will need us there to say I told you so to all those who just accepted that he "died" and refused to see all the evidence and clues that were left to those willing to look beyond mainstream media reporting.
This is the positive way of thinking about the outcomes - and I hope you are right and everything will be allright.
But I can't help being worried.
"And if he has to lie then he probably didn't really have a choice about it. "
If his life was in danger then he didn't have a choice, but otherwise, IMO, he did have.
About vindication: His name is getting clearer and clearer during this hoax, and I'm very happy about it, BUT I'm afraid it can STAY that way only if he doesn't come back.
Imagine the shock of people if Michael comes back and they realize they were lied to. I don't think most of them will think "this was the right way to clear your name Michael".
Mainly because - like I said - even for me the only acceptable reason would be that his life was in danger. I don't think it's right to lie this big for other reasons. Okay, maybe if he could help the world with this hoax A LOT, then it probably will end good, and most people (me included, of course) will celebrate him. But I think those who really cause this world the biggest problems, are too big fish for Michael and what he can reach with this hoax. But -of course - I don't know what's really going on in the background.
Anyway, I will always love him and wish him the best - I'm just worried.
I LOVE what you said and i totally agree with you,i'm worried ..I know a lot of people will tell "we were right,he is strange" and a lot of people have already said "if he fake his death,i don't love him anymore" i'm just sad that people dare to think it..people love him and are sad because he died but if he comes back,they will sulk..if the reason why he fakes his death is to open people's eyes on what is going on in the World,he does it for us only..and if we will come back,I will be there,and will celebrate him too..
I really think this two reasons (for the world,and to save his life) are the only reasons possible..
Anyway I love you Michael
You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm sure Michael is actually helped by God <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> We all are <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge. I talk about LYING because I'm worried. Lies can make things too complicated, so there are many risks. The risks I'm thinking of are:
1, Legal risks. I have no idea how Michael's lawyers can carry this hoax on successfully, but they cannot err at all...
2, If for some reason Michael's goals with this hoax cannot be reached, or even if they can but most people don't react as Michael hopes, what will happen then?
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Why not by Michael himself too? Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Why do you believe in it? I mean, I respect your belief, I'm just curious. Mainly because I don't believe in it and I think it is pointless to feel bad about this theory. If it's not true, you only cause yourself a lot of worrying. I don't know too much about it, but I'm sure those who made movies, and wrote books and hundreds of articles about it, made A LOT OF MONEY... Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
some things were started by FRANK DI LEO (see also my post in the thread Frank di Leo) and Katherine was very set up because of this but Frank said "No, this is useful" etc.
You know there will always be some who will be the odd balls and get angry at him. We all know that. That's why he has to count on "US" his soldiers of L.O.V.E. What ever rumors and wrong he did to himself, it is the past and by gones be by gones. We cannot cry over spilled milk. Let's move forward and when comes back we will accept him with open arms. I will tell you this if I were Michael I would have disapear long time ago to be at peace. Love and blessings always.
My point in this thread is not what rumours and wrong he did to himself in the past, but what wrong he might do NOW with this HUGE RUMOUR, THIS HOAX, if things don't end as he planned.... Only God knows how it will end. He made some mistakes during his life, as everyone does - what if this is a mistake too??? This hoax is very risky IMO, whatever his goal is.
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I'm sure Michael is actually helped by God <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> We all are <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge. I talk about LYING because I'm worried. Lies can make things too complicated, so there are many risks. The risks I'm thinking of are:
1, Legal risks. I have no idea how Michael's lawyers can carry this hoax on successfully, but they cannot err at all...
2, If for some reason Michael's goals with this hoax cannot be reached, or even if they can but most people don't react as Michael hopes, what will happen then?
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Why not by Michael himself too? Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Why do you believe in it? I mean, I respect your belief, I'm just curious. Mainly because I don't believe in it and I think it is pointless to feel bad about this theory. If it's not true, you only cause yourself a lot of worrying. I don't know too much about it, but I'm sure those who made movies, and wrote books and hundreds of articles about it, made A LOT OF MONEY... Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
Blessings to you DreamsandTruth.
Blessings to you too Sarahli!
About 2012, I was skeptical at the beginning but I now believe that something will happen, a divine intervention, even if God always is there maintaining the Creation, I just mean that this time we are coming in a time of revelations. I follow the Quran and found out that the year 2012 was embedded in it that's why I am so sure now. It's not the movie 2012 which convinced me for example but really what is in the Quran.
Regarding the lies...the only thing that got me thinking is about the family who have repeatedly said that Michael was dead, has passed etc. they lied publicly... but maybe that there is something that can back this, I don't know exactly what but in my mind all this is very elaborated and all things have been calculated in great detail.
Concerning the reaction of the people.... yes indeed we cannot expect everyone to accept the message and understand but as I said the 2012 event is so important that what people will finally think is not risky for Michael but for themselves. I don't know I feel like they will have to make a kind of big decision...I feel like it's about them, the people, Michael is just the messenger.
About 2012, I was skeptical at the beginning but I now believe that something will happen, a divine intervention, even if God always is there maintaining the Creation, I just mean that this time we are coming in a time of revelations. I follow the Quran and found out that the year 2012 was embedded in it that's why I am so sure now. It's not the movie 2012 which convinced me for example but really what is in the Quran.
Regarding the lies...the only thing that got me thinking is about the family who have repeatedly said that Michael was dead, has passed etc. they lied publicly... but maybe that there is something that can back this, I don't know exactly what but in my mind all this is very elaborated and all things have been calculated in great detail.
Concerning the reaction of the people.... yes indeed we cannot expect everyone to accept the message and understand but as I said the 2012 event is so important that what people will finally think is not risky for Michael but for themselves. I don't know I feel like they will have to make a kind of big decision...I feel like it's about them, the people, Michael is just the messenger.
God bless you. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
What is in the Quran about 2012? I've never heard about this connection... What people who follow the Quran think about this year? Are there many who believe what you do?
By the way I also think this hoax was / is planned very thoroughly, but it's so huge, so complex (with Murray's hearings, and all the other legal things; and too many people are involved as I see, I'm surprised there haven't been bigger slip-ups and nobody leaked/told the truth because of some personal reason or money). It's really well-done until now - at least what we can see.
I just want to explain to you guys, why I write so much about my worries and my opinion about lies.
Honestly, my biggest reason is that I hope Michael is very careful about EVERYTHING in connection with the hoax. I know he is, mostly after those things he had to go through in his life... I wonder that he can even trust enough in those who are involved in the hoax, as so many people caused huge disappointments to him in the past. There are so many people he must trust now.
I just behave like I was his mother or big sister, even though I'm younger and way less experienced than he is. But this is how I feel.
In a complex thing like this hoax, every little detail must be thought over. And you have to have a good intuition and knowledge about psychology to predict how people will react.
I cannot really imagine it can be carried out without problems occuring here and there.
I write this much about these because if Michael or someone near to him reads this (there can be a little chance, maybe) I just would like to tell him:
Be careful Michael, even when you feel you thought of everything a hundred times, think them over again. Please. Think over every little detail, every possibility (even if they don't seem possible to happen). I know I don't need to give you these basic advice, but I feel better doing it. Like saying: "Drive safe" <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I totally agree with this being a God-thing, and Michael having God's direction and protection. About the lying, I don't think we are aware of how much we are being lied to or mislead every day, have been since Adam and Eve, and we just learn all these lies as small children when we learn our culture, religion, the way things go. Like a form of double-speak we simply incorporate the lies as truth into our consciousness. God may simply choose not to reveal everything to us, allows culture, religion and ruling powers to implement strategies to control and calm people. Reality in a way is very mysterious, difficult to completely trust our senses, emotions and rational thinking. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Does it really matter whether Michael OR his camp started 1 or 2 false stories MANY years ago? If they did, I believe they did it with maximum 2 stories, the one about Michael sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber and the one about Michael wanting to buy the Elephant Man's bones. And who knows, maybe those stories were a test to see how fans or the general public would react...
If we really think about it:
1. Michael sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber -- Should have been obvious to everyone that this was far-fetched and most probably false!
2. Wanting to buy Elephant Man bones -- Why not?! Is this story "bizarre" in itself? I don't think so. Michael was a rich man (deservedly so), and rich people collect all sorts of things...
What Michael said in interviews about those stories is the following:
1. MJ bought a hyperbaric chamber to donate to a hospital's Burns Unit (after his Pepsi commercial incident), and took a "test run" in it upon visiting the hospital. Someone took a pic of Michael lying in that thing and leaked it to the press. What if MJ was right, in that someone from his camp released the photo to the press without his knowledge?!
2. MJ saw the Elephant Man's bones at a museum in London (or something like that) and was fascinated by them. He identified with the Elephant Man in the sense that he felt he didn't belong in society. In an early interview MJ didn't deny that he wanted to purchase the bones, but in the 1993 Oprah interview he indirectly said (implied) that he'd never purchased them - which I do believe he didn't actually do. There may have been an interest/intent, but MJ didn't go through with it... And even if he had, I don't understand why it would ever have been a big deal.
I don't think MJ lied much over the years... But yes, he did choose his words carefully. Most people in his shoes would have lied MUCH more during a 40+ year career, especially in that harsh a spotlight (which NO ONE ELSE in this world endured). So I really think we should give MJ a break. I'm saddened by the fact that this thread started at all.
As for LIES, sometimes they are NECESSARY. I was watching a Bill Maher show recently, and someone raised this question: Imagine you're in WW II Germany/Poland, hiding Jews in your basement. If the "authorities" knock on your door and question you, do you lie (about the Jews in your basement) or do you tell the truth? I would lie! The same goes for other situations... For instance, you don't tell a person who's really ill or dying "Gee, you don't look too good!" There are scenarios in which the right (moral) thing is to lie.
Regarding MJ manipulating the media:
My opinion is, not really. MJ would need to have AND use something like a propaganda machine for that, and he didn't really have/do that. There were so many things that he kept private for so long... such as vitiligo and all the good deeds done for numerous children and charitable organizations. Had Michael wanted to put out amazingly good stories about him, he could easily have done it! But he didn't, he kept quiet - until he was attacked and accused and was forced to defend himself.
And no, I don't believe for one second that MJ wanted the world to think he was a child molester! That was something that hurt him to the core - and Tom Mesereau, among others, said that. Did Michael say some things during the Bashir interview in defiance, or because he was sick of Bashir's questioning?! I think that's quite possible... I felt that Michael was often irritated by Batshit's questions. But did Michael want to look bad, or did he imagine that the s*** would hit the fan? No, I don't believe that... I think MJ had his own cameraman tape the interview precisely for that sort of contingency - in case something went wrong (i.e. interview got edited in outrageous ways).
MJ was a genius, but he did make mistakes... The whole Bashir thing was one of them. But of course it's easier to see that in retrospect than it would have been for Michael to realize at the time. Bashir came with a good reference from Lady Diana... Michael was smart enough to make his own tape, but since the media were eager to jump on any BAD NEWS and not so interested in good news, it didn't matter much that MJ released his own tape - it only mattered for purposes of the 2005 trial.
If someone were a real "master" at manipulating the media, would they be crucified by it?
Comments
"He did it really good and effective with his songs and videos (D.S., Ghosts, etc.)" So I think it worked, many people got the message. Those who still don't get it are, well, they are not ready yet, to say it nicely.
The other reason why I would choose only a film, if I could turn back time, is because that's just a film, no real lie in it. But this hoax is the reality, and I don't like that Michael is lying. I know he has his reasons, but... Honestly, I don't think God likes lying... Maybe only if you are in a serious threat. But otherwise you may get it back. Like we talked about it before in this thread - it backfires. And I wish Michael a happy future.
Okay, the Jackson family seems to be pretty satisfied, it looks like everything is going okay, but I guess I will end worrying when I finally will know the truth.
My personal belief is that God is the ultimate artist, and he too uses lies to tell the truth. Perhaps there is a difference between a flat out lie and an untrue story that is told with reason. I believe many of these stories can be found in the bible as well as many other religious books. Just because the stories may or may not be true, doesn't
make the reason behind the story any less relevant. I'm going to refrain from giving examples here because this could turn into a religious debate and that would be completely off topic.
There is also the topic of reality that you mentioned. We could debate about what reality really is. If the government is a big lie, and the news makes things up, then what IS real? Mike says over and over that "its all for love", and it's always been my belief that love is the only thing that is real. If that's true, then perhaps life really is a stage and we can literally create the reality that we want to see. Again, this is a topic that could get us way off track, but we must consider what "reality" means to other people, like what it might mean to Michael Jackson, and not just what it means to us in our day to day lives.
About reality - I don't really get what you mean, sorry. I mean basically I understand it <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> , but what is your point?
My point is that reality doesn't really exist like we think it does. And if everyone knew the truth about it, like Mike does, then nobody would be "mad" at him for telling a lie.
That is correct...She said it was a survival tactic for him...So that he could get where he needed to go in his career..
Oprah asked her why Michael would say it was fine to share his bed with children...She mentioned that Michael would sometimes say things to be defiant because he was so angry..
I find this to be interesting..
It's like Michael creates a false image of himself so he can protect his true self...Which is understandable in my opinion
Wow, I always wonder who would have predicted MJ's death six months before it happened. I think you just answered that question for me. Thanks so much, Andrea. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
No problem, check your inbox <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But what if Michael is actually helped by God? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I think that we cannot talk about the "is it good to lie or not?" subject here because we don't really comprehend all the layers implicated in this hoax, we don't have yet the big picture....so we cannot even begin to judge.
Concerning the fact itself of having hoaxed his death we musn't forget one important thing and we are in some ways Michael's insurance....how is it that we suspected and adhered to the fact that something fishy was going on? Why did we notice the inconsistencies and not the others? Why did we understood that it was a hoax, an ARG whatever and not the others? That's why we felt that it was necessary that people hear about us, necessary to go to the media because after having been considered as "delusional" people....we will be considered as "clever" people, who actually got it and Michael will "use" us as a kind of alibi. Those who had not realized WILL realize something.... it is that they have been fooled easily....BUT not by Michael himself but by those who reported the news that he was indeed "dead" while he wasn't. Also this will permit Michael to get the world's attention on him and especially on the important message he has to deliver. This, is for the common people, now if we talk about the dark side or NWO powers it's a little bit different of course, they maybe already know that something is going on and are maybe ready to "backfire" but we are entering the time of revelations, a time for the truth to be known and I am really confident about the fact that God will help us and Michael to win that battle.
I really believe in the 2012 event so in my mind there is absolutely nothing to lose but everything to win. Risky....if we don't do anything the situation will worsen, so it's better to take some risks and try to make things change. Michael is not alone in all that and I think that the dark side already attempted to kill him in the past, they tried to bring him down several times...but they didn't managed...God's protection surely.
I just have a little question. What kind of risks exactly are you thinking of?
Blessings to you DreamsandTruth.
I LOVE what you said and i totally agree with you,i'm worried ..I know a lot of people will tell "we were right,he is strange" and a lot of people have already said "if he fake his death,i don't love him anymore" i'm just sad that people dare to think it..people love him and are sad because he died but if he comes back,they will sulk..if the reason why he fakes his death is to open people's eyes on what is going on in the World,he does it for us only..and if we will come back,I will be there,and will celebrate him too..
I really think this two reasons (for the world,and to save his life) are the only reasons possible..
Anyway I love you Michael
About 2012, I was skeptical at the beginning but I now believe that something will happen, a divine intervention, even if God always is there maintaining the Creation, I just mean that this time we are coming in a time of revelations. I follow the Quran and found out that the year 2012 was embedded in it that's why I am so sure now. It's not the movie 2012 which convinced me for example but really what is in the Quran.
Regarding the lies...the only thing that got me thinking is about the family who have repeatedly said that Michael was dead, has passed etc. they lied publicly... but maybe that there is something that can back this, I don't know exactly what but in my mind all this is very elaborated and all things have been calculated in great detail.
Concerning the reaction of the people.... yes indeed we cannot expect everyone to accept the message and understand but as I said the 2012 event is so important that what people will finally think is not risky for Michael but for themselves. I don't know I feel like they will have to make a kind of big decision...I feel like it's about them, the people, Michael is just the messenger.
God bless you. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
By the way I also think this hoax was / is planned very thoroughly, but it's so huge, so complex (with Murray's hearings, and all the other legal things; and too many people are involved as I see, I'm surprised there haven't been bigger slip-ups and nobody leaked/told the truth because of some personal reason or money). It's really well-done until now - at least what we can see.
Honestly, my biggest reason is that I hope Michael is very careful about EVERYTHING in connection with the hoax. I know he is, mostly after those things he had to go through in his life... I wonder that he can even trust enough in those who are involved in the hoax, as so many people caused huge disappointments to him in the past. There are so many people he must trust now.
I just behave like I was his mother or big sister, even though I'm younger and way less experienced than he is. But this is how I feel.
In a complex thing like this hoax, every little detail must be thought over. And you have to have a good intuition and knowledge about psychology to predict how people will react.
I cannot really imagine it can be carried out without problems occuring here and there.
I write this much about these because if Michael or someone near to him reads this (there can be a little chance, maybe) I just would like to tell him:
Be careful Michael, even when you feel you thought of everything a hundred times, think them over again. Please. Think over every little detail, every possibility (even if they don't seem possible to happen). I know I don't need to give you these basic advice, but I feel better doing it. Like saying: "Drive safe" <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
If we really think about it:
1. Michael sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber -- Should have been obvious to everyone that this was far-fetched and most probably false!
2. Wanting to buy Elephant Man bones -- Why not?! Is this story "bizarre" in itself? I don't think so. Michael was a rich man (deservedly so), and rich people collect all sorts of things...
What Michael said in interviews about those stories is the following:
1. MJ bought a hyperbaric chamber to donate to a hospital's Burns Unit (after his Pepsi commercial incident), and took a "test run" in it upon visiting the hospital. Someone took a pic of Michael lying in that thing and leaked it to the press. What if MJ was right, in that someone from his camp released the photo to the press without his knowledge?!
2. MJ saw the Elephant Man's bones at a museum in London (or something like that) and was fascinated by them. He identified with the Elephant Man in the sense that he felt he didn't belong in society. In an early interview MJ didn't deny that he wanted to purchase the bones, but in the 1993 Oprah interview he indirectly said (implied) that he'd never purchased them - which I do believe he didn't actually do. There may have been an interest/intent, but MJ didn't go through with it... And even if he had, I don't understand why it would ever have been a big deal.
I don't think MJ lied much over the years... But yes, he did choose his words carefully. Most people in his shoes would have lied MUCH more during a 40+ year career, especially in that harsh a spotlight (which NO ONE ELSE in this world endured). So I really think we should give MJ a break. I'm saddened by the fact that this thread started at all.
As for LIES, sometimes they are NECESSARY. I was watching a Bill Maher show recently, and someone raised this question: Imagine you're in WW II Germany/Poland, hiding Jews in your basement. If the "authorities" knock on your door and question you, do you lie (about the Jews in your basement) or do you tell the truth? I would lie! The same goes for other situations... For instance, you don't tell a person who's really ill or dying "Gee, you don't look too good!" There are scenarios in which the right (moral) thing is to lie.
My opinion is, not really. MJ would need to have AND use something like a propaganda machine for that, and he didn't really have/do that. There were so many things that he kept private for so long... such as vitiligo and all the good deeds done for numerous children and charitable organizations. Had Michael wanted to put out amazingly good stories about him, he could easily have done it! But he didn't, he kept quiet - until he was attacked and accused and was forced to defend himself.
And no, I don't believe for one second that MJ wanted the world to think he was a child molester! That was something that hurt him to the core - and Tom Mesereau, among others, said that. Did Michael say some things during the Bashir interview in defiance, or because he was sick of Bashir's questioning?! I think that's quite possible... I felt that Michael was often irritated by Batshit's questions. But did Michael want to look bad, or did he imagine that the s*** would hit the fan? No, I don't believe that... I think MJ had his own cameraman tape the interview precisely for that sort of contingency - in case something went wrong (i.e. interview got edited in outrageous ways).
MJ was a genius, but he did make mistakes... The whole Bashir thing was one of them. But of course it's easier to see that in retrospect than it would have been for Michael to realize at the time. Bashir came with a good reference from Lady Diana... Michael was smart enough to make his own tape, but since the media were eager to jump on any BAD NEWS and not so interested in good news, it didn't matter much that MJ released his own tape - it only mattered for purposes of the 2005 trial.
If someone were a real "master" at manipulating the media, would they be crucified by it?