TIAI November 18
GodhaschosenMJ
Posts: 177
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GodhaschosenMJ
Posts: 177
Comments
6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.
7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.
9 Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath, on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will renounce thee to thy face.
12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah.
13 And it fell on a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house,
14 that there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them;
15 and the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away: yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have taken them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house;
19 and, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
20 Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped;
21 and he said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: Jehovah gave, and Jehovah hath taken away; blessed be the name of Jehovah.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201:6-22&version=ASV
But yes, because of Job's faithfulness he was blessed more in the end than he was up to that point in his life. I really hope this story of Michael turns out like the story of Job....what a day of rejoicing that will be!
Satan obtains leave to try Job.
Job's afflictions began from the malice of Satan, by the Lord's permission, for wise and holy purposes. There is an evil spirit, the enemy of God, and of all righteousness, who is continually seeking to distress, to lead astray, and, if possible, to destroy those who love God. How far his influence may extend, we cannot say; but probably much unsteadiness and unhappiness in Christians may be ascribed to him. While we are on this earth we are within his reach. Hence it concerns us to be sober and vigilant, 1Pe 5:8.
See how Satan censures Job. This is the common way of slanderers, to suggest that which they have no reason to think is true. But as there is nothing we should dread more than really being hypocrites, so there is nothing we need dread less than being called and counted so without cause. It is not wrong to look at the eternal recompence in our obedience; but it is wrong to aim at worldly advantages in our religion.
God's people are taken under his special protection; they, and all that belong to them. The blessing of the Lord makes rich; Satan himself owns it. God suffered Job to be tried, as he suffered Peter to be sifted. It is our comfort that God has the devil in a chain, Re 20:1. He has no power to lead men to sin, but what they give him themselves; nor any power to afflict men, but what is given him from above. All this is here described to us after the manner of men. The Scripture speaks thus to teach us that God directs the affairs of the world. (Job 1:13-19)
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getCommentaryText&cid=35&source=2&seq=i.22.1.2
The Book of Job
The Book of Job is one of the books of the Hebrew Bible. It relates the story of Job, who was not Jewish, and in Jewish tradition is the son of Utz, who was the son of Nahor, the brother of Abraham. It tells of his trials at the hands of God, his theological discussions with friends on the origins and nature of his suffering, his challenge to God, and finally a response from God. The Book itself comprises a didactic poem set in a prose frame and has been called "the most profound and literary work of the entire Old Testament". The Book itself and its numerous exegeses are attempts to address the problem of evil.
Narrative
There was an extremely pious man named Job. He was very prosperous, and had seven sons and three daughters. Constantly fearing that his sons may have sinned and "cursed God in their hearts", he habitually offered burnt offerings as a pardon for their sins.
The "sons of God" and Satan (literally "the adversary") present themselves to God. God asks Satan his opinion on Job, apparently a truly pious man. Satan answers that Job is pious only because God put a "wall around" him and "blessed" his favorite servant with prosperity. But if God touches "his possessions", then Job would curse him. God gives Satan permission to test Job's righteousness.
All of Job's possessions are destroyed and a 'ruach' (wind/spirit) causes the house of the firstborn to collapse killing all of Job's offspring who were gathered for a feast. Job does not curse God after this but instead shaves his head, tears his clothes and says, "Naked I came out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return: Lord has given, and Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of Lord".
As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold, he is in your hand, but don't touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes his skin with broken pottery. His wife prompts him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?"
Three friends of Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, come to console him. And the three of Job's friends heard all this evil that came on him, and they came every man from his place — Eliphaz the Temanite (Heb: Aliphaz the Thimanite), Bildad the Shuhite (Heb: Bildad the Shuchite), and Zophar Naamathite (Heb: Zuphar the Nomathite). A fourth, Elihu the Buzite (Heb: Alieua ben Barakal the Buzite), first begins talking in chapter 32 and plays a significant role in the dialogue; however, his arrival is not described. The friends spend 7 days sitting on the ground with Job, without saying anything to him because they see that he is suffering and in much pain. Job at last breaks his silence and "curses the day he was born".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job
TS, I know this is a clue and all, but I have to thank you.... I'm crying right now as I type this.
By no means do I compare myself to Job as my life is extremely blessed. I do, however, have one area in my life that constantly gets attacked once I make a decision to make a stand or do something for God, and that's my health.
Today I was flat on my back with muscle spasms, yet another health challenge I was blessed to be afflicted with recently. I was feeling very low.
This redirect put EVERYTHING back into perspective for me. I will not charge God foolishly TS! I WILL NOT! And despite ANY AND EVERY challenge that comes my way, let God's name be glorified!
Thank you TS!!!
Thank you TS for your continued guidance. We may have differing points of view when it comes to religion/spirituality/personal belief systems ... however I'm sure the collective LOVE I see expressed for Michael and HIS beliefs outweighs any differences. Love & peace to all, emerald xo
My thoughts: there are only two places in the Bible that the phrase 'Sons of God' are used, this place in Job 1:6 and also twice in Genesis 6:1-8. Some Bible scholars have thought they were sons of Seth, but I disagree, I believe they were aliens very similar to humans but from outside of earth. They were not angels because the Bible consistently uses other terminology for angelic beings. (I have more controversial beliefs about these beings which I've mentioned elsewhere.)
Also yes, this story about Job is a deep discussion on the problem of suffering and pain. When we realize that both come from the hand of God because God has created Satan our tormentor, it will bring us peace and trust. Like Joseph who went through many trials, in the end said to his brothers, "You meant it for evil (selling him into slavery) but God meant it for good to save many lives." Like Job was blessed in the end with double all that he had before, so Joseph became the second in the command over all Egypt. I believe Michael Jackson was blessed in many ways in his life, but when God is through with him, he will be blessed doubley or perhaps more than we can even imagine, to save many lives.
Thank you so much for clearly clarifying the significance of this redirection.
It may also be an answer to some of the questions that have been raised, on the forum, asking things like "If there is a God, why did he let Michael suffer so much".
Lucifer aka Satan was the most beautiful Angel in heaven, but he decided one day he wanted to take Gods place...YEAH RIGHT!!!!! ok so when you challenge God well, lets just say God created a very HOT place for Satan to live and he is about to be sent there.
But Satan thought Job to be weak and only love and serve God because of his wealth. BUT God knew Jobs heart and he knew that JOB would never renouce him. God used Job to show for the centuries to come that if we are faithful and steadfast that not only will Satan be defeated, our loss and mourning will be turned into ten fold gain and rejoycing.
We just have to have patients and faith when we are tried by Satan, NOT by God. Gods word says he will not allow anymore to come against us than we can bare. So do you see how Michael was able to with stand Satan coming at him in all directions of his life? But yet he said he kept this faith in God. And he came through. Why would we think, that because Satan was out to destroy Michael and take his life, Michael would just sit by and let it happen? God gave Michael a plan just like he gave him the music.
God knows Michael’s heart and that he would not give in and turn his back on God because the going got tough. Everything happening with Michael makes the statement true, that when the going gets tough, the tough get going. God never caused anything to go wrong in Jobs life, he just allowed Satan to test Job because God knew what Job was made of.
If God had thought that Job would buckle under pressure he would have stepped in and delivered Job, but God knew that people would read of Job and be inspired by his testimony. And indeed so many received encouragements to know that God does restore all that is lost. I am experiencing this same type thing in my own life now, but I know if I hold fast, God is my provider, and my ever present help in time of need and I will not be swayed or discouraged, because God is never too early or too late, he is always always right on time. Michael’s return will be in the same manner, so we need to hold fast.
Here is a most beautiful song to describe what is important.
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If we keep our faith in Christ Jesus, Satan cannot do more to us that God knows we can withstand, and it is always used as a testimony of how great God is and how much he loves us. It is an amazing fact that the CREATOR of the Universe is IN LOVE with US and Job is a beautiful example of that.
As I am not religious and don't believe in Satan I am just trying to figure out the message behind it.
Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.
Keep the faith in terms of Michael or in terms of God or both?
I don't know if this is also what TS wants to convey as a message but it corresponds to Michael who kept the faith in God despite what he had to go through... but as you don't believe in God... keep the faith into beLIEving in the hoax despite the confusion?
I think that TS redirected to these verses because of the last discussions for the last redirect. So maybe that it is not hoax related... idk.
It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.
Exactly. And if it was Michael himself re-directing to the Bible what would you say? I really want to know what would people who don't believe in God think if Michael went to be like Jesus and preaching the Bible? Would you listen or not? This is a honest question that I have because maybe that this is also part of Michael's message. Thanks.
Interestingly enough this redirection today, the day that makes seven years that Michael was arrested unjustly.
Sarah, if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control. In TS' situation I can't be sure if his intentions are also good. You understand me? I've never seen the person, never looked into his eyes. I can't be sure his intentions are good as I would be if it were Michael giving us these quotes. There is a so big difference.I honestly answer you
Why would it change? The Bible quoted by TS or Michael is still the same... the meaning does not change, the words are still the same. How can the intention be different? TS is only re-directing without analyzing or telling people what to think. When I read these verses I've been touched by their content, by the message and it is not TS who has written it. TS is just a messenger.
When one beLIEve that TS and Michael are ONE... as I do, the answer is simple: I am listening!
I do not however necessarily beLIEve that our Teacher is teaching us the Bible, more using the Bible to Teach us about Values, and to establish parallels (& learnings) with "hoax" events.
Job's story is a message of Faith.
In relation to the Hoax, it means that we will hear and see messages that will lead us to question our beliefs in the Hoax (i.e. That Michael is alive) and in those time we need to remember why we believed in the first place and stick to those beliefs... 'cos there is a much greater "reward" in keeping Faith in the Hoax.
And Thank You TS for today's redirect..xx
With L.O.V.E
No, you don't understand me. First, you didn't underline the sentence well, so this means to read between the lines.- which is not good. The whole sentence would have been if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them[/b] because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control - from this, I explain it again. If it were Michael showing us quotes from the Bible I wouldn't think they might be probably with bad intention. Why? Because I can look into Michael's eyes, I can see it in his eyes because he is a tangible person. It's totally another thing if we regard TS. I can't look into his eyes. The eyes are the window to your soul and this can't be ingnored and considered unimportant. Even one of FBI's techinques to spot a liar is the eye to eye alaysis.
If it were Michael giving these quotes from the Bible I wouldn't regard the possibility of a mindcontrol for objective reasons- he never did that no matter his religious beliefs. This doesn't happen with TS in my case. It's a feeling that I have since very long. Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind. This is what I don't like about this. I don't know TS, never seen his face, never looked into his eyes so I have the right too REGARD the possibility he might not have actually only good intentions with all this. It is my right to my opinion. I hope now you got what I wanted to say with all this.
I know that the path through hell is paved with good intentions
my advice to you : when you see the thread title and it is thia and a date. don't click on it <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.
Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.
Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.
I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.
I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.
As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.