TIAI January 6

GodhaschosenMJGodhaschosenMJ Posts: 177
edited January 1970 in TIAI
<!-- m -->http://twitter.com/MJHOAXLIVE/status/22813976341512192<!-- m -->

Paramedics as testigying did not recogonize the patient to be michael jackson .....
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Comments

  • willddoMJwillddoMJ Posts: 699
    never heard that before, does this twitter have proof?
  • AndreaAndrea Posts: 3,787
    Indeed the paramedics didn't recognize the patient...because Michael was never their patient.

    From the TMZ article in this thread: <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17045<!-- l -->
    Richard Senneff testified when he arrived at MJ's house and saw MJ, he looked like a hospice patient -- extremely frail.

    IF there WAS a body there...maybe that explains the "looked like a hospice patient"... because the body was one. Someone who had recently died but not before volunteering his dying body...someone who was sick and frail and of course didn't resemble Michael Jackson. A brave soul who knew he wouldn't live and offered what help he could?
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    That's been a consistent story since day one, yes.

    I don't believe there was any actual body though. I think this is a fabricated story.
  • AndreaAndrea Posts: 3,787
    That's been a consistent story since day one, yes.

    I don't believe there was any actual body though. I think this is a fabricated story.

    Ya that part always bothered me - whether there was a body there that day or not.
  • MJonmindMJonmind Posts: 7,290
    Somehow I think for acting purposes, wouldn't it be easier on major people involved to have an actual body and carrying out some tasks so they could picture things in their minds when in the testimony box. I think they at least carried out some mock scenes so everyone was on board with similar stories. I still think the AR was on a real dead person (maybe this one here) and coupled together with actual info on MJ's real body <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . Just my thoughts.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    That's been a consistent story since day one, yes.

    I don't believe there was any actual body though. I think this is a fabricated story.

    Ya that part always bothered me - whether there was a body there that day or not.

    To me an actual dead body is an actual crime. It's a crime to pass off a dead person as someone they are not, that's not a little thing either that's a big crime, federal and such. I have a hard time believing that he would be so careful about legality elsewhere in this hoax and let mishandling of a corpse and etc involved with that hang over his come back.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Somehow I think for acting purposes, wouldn't it be easier on major people involved to have an actual body and carrying out some tasks so they could picture things in their minds when in the testimony box. I think they at least carried out some mock scenes so everyone was on board with similar stories. I still think the AR was on a real dead person (maybe this one here) and coupled together with actual info on MJ's real body <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . Just my thoughts.

    That's true as well, which leads me to believe if the emt's were deceived and unknowing parties in the hoax, that it was MJ himself playing dead on that stretcher. Which is possible considering Murray's reported "constant interference" at the scene, but same time doesn't explain the ambulance pic (which also shows one handed cpr by emt).
  • Yambo3003Yambo3003 Posts: 291
    Somehow I think for acting purposes, wouldn't it be easier on major people involved to have an actual body and carrying out some tasks so they could picture things in their minds when in the testimony box. I think they at least carried out some mock scenes so everyone was on board with similar stories. I still think the AR was on a real dead person (maybe this one here) and coupled together with actual info on MJ's real body <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . Just my thoughts.

    That's true as well, which leads me to believe if the emt's were deceived and unknowing parties in the hoax, that it was MJ himself playing dead on that stretcher. Which is possible considering Murray's reported "constant interference" at the scene, but same time doesn't explain the ambulance pic (which also shows one handed cpr by emt).

    Isn't the ambulance pic fake according to Brian Oxman?
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Somehow I think for acting purposes, wouldn't it be easier on major people involved to have an actual body and carrying out some tasks so they could picture things in their minds when in the testimony box. I think they at least carried out some mock scenes so everyone was on board with similar stories. I still think the AR was on a real dead person (maybe this one here) and coupled together with actual info on MJ's real body <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . Just my thoughts.

    That's true as well, which leads me to believe if the emt's were deceived and unknowing parties in the hoax, that it was MJ himself playing dead on that stretcher. Which is possible considering Murray's reported "constant interference" at the scene, but same time doesn't explain the ambulance pic (which also shows one handed cpr by emt).

    Isn't the ambulance pic fake according to Brian Oxman?

    *Loophole

    Oxman was 99.9%* sure it was a fake in his opinion*.
  • Yambo3003Yambo3003 Posts: 291
    I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

    The counter theory is that the EMTs are in on it which is prob most likely of all considering the 911 call almost certainly has to be fake and real emts don't come when you call the fake 911, lol.

    *I think* for what that's worth, that the EMTs are in on it and the body is a dummy and the ambulance pic is real because its the MJ mannequin from the Leave Me Alone Video.
  • Yambo3003Yambo3003 Posts: 291
    I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

    The counter theory is that the EMTs are in on it which is prob most likely of all considering the 911 call almost certainly has to be fake and real emts don't come when you call the fake 911, lol.

    *I think* for what that's worth, that the EMTs are in on it and the body is a dummy and the ambulance pic is real because its the MJ mannequin from the Leave Me Alone Video.

    That makes perfect sense. I''ve not seen that video that much (Leave Me Alone). I will in order to see the mannequin. They could have also made a new mannequin, you know...an update version. Just a thought! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
  • PureLovePureLove Posts: 5,891
    So there was a body there but it didn't belong to Michael. But also Twiggy posted that today at the court, MJ's laying on the floor pictures were shown. Probably fake ones like the ambulance picture. And I remember something like there was a body which was already dead and they kept the air conditioner open to keep the body warm.
  • I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

    The counter theory is that the EMTs are in on it which is prob most likely of all considering the 911 call almost certainly has to be fake and real emts don't come when you call the fake 911, lol.

    *I think* for what that's worth, that the EMTs are in on it and the body is a dummy and the ambulance pic is real because its the MJ mannequin from the Leave Me Alone Video.
    Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:41 am
    As for the corpse remember the story of Michael contacting the German doctor who does the human body Plastination?

    Michael Jackson set to be embalmed at the O2 Centre after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing
    By Daily Mail Reporter Created 3:07 PM on 26th June 2009
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195750/Michael-Jackson-set-plastinated-missing-deadline-cryogenic-freezing.html

    Now the previous story was full of untruths but maybe it's intention was to lead us to the corpse...

    German doctor selling human body parts from his lab/museum
    Jun 1, 2010 by Laura Trowbridge
    Doctor Gunther von Hagens, known as Germany's 'Dr Death', has a new mail order store for anyone wanting to buy body parts.

    The world's leading anatomist Dr von Hagens "invented Plastination at the University of Heidelberg in 1977, developed the use of plastinated specimens for medical education and preservation, and established the International Society for Plastination. More than 400 universities in 40 countries utilize Dr. Gunther von Hagens’ preservation technique in their curriculum."

    Plastination is the process which preserves the bodies of both people and animals, replacing body fluids with hardened silicon.

    According to Sky News, Dr von Hagen is now selling body parts from his Plastinarium in Guben, Germany.

    There are all sorts of human body parts for sale. A cross section of a human body sells from £100 to £14,000. Animal body parts are also for sale.

    The Plastinarium opened in 2006, but closed two years later for "refurbishment". However, Sky News reports that the project came under religious groups' heavy criticism before reopening just recently.

    Religious leaders describe von Hagens' work as "voyeuristic". One priest called it a "sublime form of cannibalism, which violates human dignity."

    Dr von Hagens argues that his work is educational and promotes better health, and he is doing nothing wrong because "corpses have no souls".

    His bodies come from donors who agree that he can plastinate their bodies after they die.

    His Body Worlds exhibits have been seen all over the world.
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/292816

    What if Michael did contact Dr von Hagens but not to discuss being Plastinated but actually met with him to procure a body or bodies for the hoax. This man has access to all kinds of corpses.

    I also remember the old clue giver JCC saying "Germany is key" or something like that.
  • RKRK Posts: 3,019
    The one handed CPR by Murray. The one handed CPR in ambulance. The one handed man in HMH video. I'm trying to get the meaning here. Does it allude to sleight of hand like a magician. Not letting your right hand know what your left hand is doing? Like losing your right hand? Who does one handed CPR? Even with babies it's with index and forefingers of both hands.
    In the case of a decoy body, how illegal would it be if the deceased had changed names by deed poll. Michael Jackson is not a rare name. Just thinking out loud. I have never thought there was another body, but those paramedics testifying that they didn't recognize the deceased as being THE Michael Jackson is causing me to at least entertain some differing scenarios in my hoax assumptions. It doesn't seem plausable that there was another body, but that would mean there are a lot of people in on the hoax.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

    The counter theory is that the EMTs are in on it which is prob most likely of all considering the 911 call almost certainly has to be fake and real emts don't come when you call the fake 911, lol.

    *I think* for what that's worth, that the EMTs are in on it and the body is a dummy and the ambulance pic is real because its the MJ mannequin from the Leave Me Alone Video.
    Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:41 am
    As for the corpse remember the story of Michael contacting the German doctor who does the human body Plastination?

    Michael Jackson set to be embalmed at the O2 Centre after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing
    By Daily Mail Reporter Created 3:07 PM on 26th June 2009
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195750/Michael-Jackson-set-plastinated-missing-deadline-cryogenic-freezing.html

    Now the previous story was full of untruths but maybe it's intention was to lead us to the corpse...

    German doctor selling human body parts from his lab/museum
    Jun 1, 2010 by Laura Trowbridge
    Doctor Gunther von Hagens, known as Germany's 'Dr Death', has a new mail order store for anyone wanting to buy body parts.

    The world's leading anatomist Dr von Hagens "invented Plastination at the University of Heidelberg in 1977, developed the use of plastinated specimens for medical education and preservation, and established the International Society for Plastination. More than 400 universities in 40 countries utilize Dr. Gunther von Hagens’ preservation technique in their curriculum."

    Plastination is the process which preserves the bodies of both people and animals, replacing body fluids with hardened silicon.

    According to Sky News, Dr von Hagen is now selling body parts from his Plastinarium in Guben, Germany.

    There are all sorts of human body parts for sale. A cross section of a human body sells from £100 to £14,000. Animal body parts are also for sale.

    The Plastinarium opened in 2006, but closed two years later for "refurbishment". However, Sky News reports that the project came under religious groups' heavy criticism before reopening just recently.

    Religious leaders describe von Hagens' work as "voyeuristic". One priest called it a "sublime form of cannibalism, which violates human dignity."

    Dr von Hagens argues that his work is educational and promotes better health, and he is doing nothing wrong because "corpses have no souls".

    His bodies come from donors who agree that he can plastinate their bodies after they die.

    His Body Worlds exhibits have been seen all over the world.
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/292816

    What if Michael did contact Dr von Hagens but not to discuss being Plastinated but actually met with him to procure a body or bodies for the hoax. This man has access to all kinds of corpses.

    I also remember the old clue giver JCC saying "Germany is key" or something like that.

    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted without proper paperwork and documentation.

    I'm using total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
  • Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.
  • Yambo3003Yambo3003 Posts: 291
    I don't think there was a body or someone playing *dead* in the ambulance. The EMT's would have notice it quickly. And if there was...it was not MJ. Wanna mess! Too many inconsistencies today!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

    The counter theory is that the EMTs are in on it which is prob most likely of all considering the 911 call almost certainly has to be fake and real emts don't come when you call the fake 911, lol.

    *I think* for what that's worth, that the EMTs are in on it and the body is a dummy and the ambulance pic is real because its the MJ mannequin from the Leave Me Alone Video.
    Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:41 am
    As for the corpse remember the story of Michael contacting the German doctor who does the human body Plastination?

    Michael Jackson set to be embalmed at the O2 Centre after missing the deadline for cryogenic freezing
    By Daily Mail Reporter Created 3:07 PM on 26th June 2009
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195750/Michael-Jackson-set-plastinated-missing-deadline-cryogenic-freezing.html

    Now the previous story was full of untruths but maybe it's intention was to lead us to the corpse...

    German doctor selling human body parts from his lab/museum
    Jun 1, 2010 by Laura Trowbridge
    Doctor Gunther von Hagens, known as Germany's 'Dr Death', has a new mail order store for anyone wanting to buy body parts.

    The world's leading anatomist Dr von Hagens "invented Plastination at the University of Heidelberg in 1977, developed the use of plastinated specimens for medical education and preservation, and established the International Society for Plastination. More than 400 universities in 40 countries utilize Dr. Gunther von Hagens’ preservation technique in their curriculum."

    Plastination is the process which preserves the bodies of both people and animals, replacing body fluids with hardened silicon.

    According to Sky News, Dr von Hagen is now selling body parts from his Plastinarium in Guben, Germany.

    There are all sorts of human body parts for sale. A cross section of a human body sells from £100 to £14,000. Animal body parts are also for sale.

    The Plastinarium opened in 2006, but closed two years later for "refurbishment". However, Sky News reports that the project came under religious groups' heavy criticism before reopening just recently.

    Religious leaders describe von Hagens' work as "voyeuristic". One priest called it a "sublime form of cannibalism, which violates human dignity."

    Dr von Hagens argues that his work is educational and promotes better health, and he is doing nothing wrong because "corpses have no souls".

    His bodies come from donors who agree that he can plastinate their bodies after they die.

    His Body Worlds exhibits have been seen all over the world.
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/292816

    What if Michael did contact Dr von Hagens but not to discuss being Plastinated but actually met with him to procure a body or bodies for the hoax. This man has access to all kinds of corpses.

    I also remember the old clue giver JCC saying "Germany is key" or something like that.

    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted without proper paperwork and documentation.

    I'm using total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.


    I think this is too risky and disrespectful. The mannequin theory sounds better or the EMT's being part of the hoax. Just my opinion.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.

    You're completely right. I actually meant "I'm using total speculation to render that one implausible", which is why I edited it. I wrote it in a conversational sense and it didn't come across in type properly.

    Even with your correction to a body donated for plastination is in my opinion cumbersome for the hoax and implausible. It's also super macabre with someone else's body which is not really the PR thing he seems to be going for in all this.
  • brunob12brunob12 Posts: 162
    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.

    Using a body of another person like this is a crime.

    Any chance of the body being a wax doll? ANOTHER Elvis parallell? At this point it wouldn't surprises me.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.

    Using a body of another person like this is a crime.

    Any chance of the body being a wax doll? ANOTHER Elvis parallell? At this point it didn't surprises me.

    Yes of course. Plenty of MJ wax figures around. And then the Lou Feregno statement shortl;y after 6/25 saying MJ liked to fool people by sending mannequins off in ambulances. You don't say Lou? I like the dummy theory more n more, but it does cancel out the sits up on stretcher pics as fake then doesn't it.

    Bummer.

    <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->
  • Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.

    Using a body of another person like this is a crime.

    How is it a crime?

    The person isn't murdered or anything, they already died and donated their body to this Doctor.
    The body could have been returned to him after the autopsy and then plastinated.
    No one would ever know.
    TIAI Update #5b: DO you Think 4 your Self?
    In all three of these cases (9-9-09, Halloween, and January): there was a realistic possibility of a bam—and especially the last two. Nevertheless, even though there was no bam, there were significant events which fit very well with the three “R” ratings. The 9-9-09 “Resurrection”: movie poster, movie 7 weeks later, and autopsy finalized (you need a dead body for an autopsy, so no resurrection until finalized).

    So how else do you get a body for an autopsy then?
  • brunob12brunob12 Posts: 162
    Pretty sure you'd have to have some major licensing to obtain one of these, and it's still a human body, even if a private person could obtain one, I can't imagine that's even close to legal to try and use one of these things to fool a set of real EMTs, ie send it on Weekend At Burnie's style walk about unescorted with proper paperwork and documentation.

    Total speculation to render that one implausible.

    Ps. A hunch says MJ started this rumor that he contacted this guy about being plastinated. Betcha a million dollar it's MJ made up BS for the media.
    I didn't mean a plastinated body, I meant an unplastinated one. Before it had been plastinated. Maybe refrigerated hence the room being so warm, in summer, to heat it back up.

    Now I am just going off on tangents here.

    Everything on this entire forum is speculation.

    Using a body of another person like this is a crime.

    How is it a crime?

    The person isn't murdered or anything, they already died and donated their body to this Doctor.
    The body could have been returned to him after the autopsy and then plastinated.
    No one would ever know.
    TIAI Update #5b: DO you Think 4 your Self?
    In all three of these cases (9-9-09, Halloween, and January): there was a realistic possibility of a bam—and especially the last two. Nevertheless, even though there was no bam, there were significant events which fit very well with the three “R” ratings. The 9-9-09 “Resurrection”: movie poster, movie 7 weeks later, and autopsy finalized (you need a dead body for an autopsy, so no resurrection until finalized).

    So how else do you get a body for an autopsy then?

    One thing is to donate the body for academic purposes or whatever it is. The person/instituition is responsible for it, but it's not owner of it, doing whatever they want with it. They couldn't just borrow the body for MJ for a while to do whatever he had to do.

    I don't know about the laws of USA, but I'm pretty sure that if I get a body from my university (who is there for academic purposes) to do whatever I need, I'll be in serious trouble. Legal trouble.

    Well, who knows from wich body the autopsy came? It could be fake. I even remember someone here saying that could be the body of a dog. It could be lots of things. We will continue speculating until the truth comes out.
  • curlscurls Posts: 3,111
    Can I just ask who is this Twiggy person who is suddenly being quoted all over the place?
  • Wouldn't they say if it was a fake body (wax figure)?
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