<br /><br /><br /><br />if the 911 call is staged, is it possible that they make the call appear on the screen this way? or, this is also staged/pre-arranged.<br /><br />and, if the paramedics are in the hoax, UCLA, coroner and others are all in the hoax, then who is the target of sting?<br />One department for sure is the media. But i definitely don't think that sting is 'limited' to the media...<br />
<br /><br />I say "staged" as in, didn't go through a real 911 operator. It was a call to LAFD dispatch for sure. The 911 call is what would hit police scanners, but if a private call was placed to a private number at LAFD dispatch, dispatch would plug all that information into the system and it would hit the call screen just like normal, but it would bypass the public channels (AS WELL AS make it legal. If the call were actually dialed 9-1-1 it would be a crime, since they would be making a false report to a 911 operator).
<br />Also - was just pondering which paramedics are in or not in (all or just some):<br /><br />Wasn't Senneff the one who wrote the Paramedics Report with all the inconsistencies - wrong DOB, incorrect spelling of Michael's name etc, and from my trial memory his version of events regarding what was happening in the room when they arrived matched up with Alvarez's testimony (who I think is definitely in on the hoax) ?<br /><br />Not sure this proves either way, but thought it interesting.<br />
<br /><br />Hey Adi....Yes, there were SO many inconsistencies and inaccurate things on the paramedic report...Hippa laws scream too:<br />I did post a long time ago.....if it helps, here it is:<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,19392.msg335730.html#msg335730<br /><br />*some of the links are not there any more : ( :over-react-smiley:....like News of the World (shucks, they went out of business...too bad, so sad....NOT) LOL.....<br /><br />Blessings
<br />http://www.wnd.com/2008/10/76713/#ixzz1K83jWxpH<br /><br />Positive: get closer to self-determined death keeping dignity in mind.<br />Negative: this could be a first step towards euthanasia.<br />Drug the depressed, then starve / dehydrate them to death. Take involuntary detention and involuntary treatment in a neuro-psychiatric clinic first and connect the dots.
If we look more closely at the monitor from ambulance, it is written Verizon Wireless, a phone and Internet company and the number 800 451 5242 4 number for emergencies. I do not know too well, but understand that when making a call on a mobile phone, they can track caller location. When a person calls 911 from a cell phone call is placed to the telephone center PSAP (public safety answer point). The system is designed for police forces to ensure that they can always track cell phone location, in order to give first aid to people in need.<br /> But now we all know that the address that appeared on the screen is the hotel where Alvarez was : 9641 Sunset Blvd.Idea that was floated that would have appeared that address to monitor because there was placed a phone tower, but according to www. cellreception.com / towers / towers.php? city = Los% 20angeles & state_abr = that did not exist at the Beverly Hills Hotel, otherwise it would be easily noticed in the pictures. But if Alvarez was on site, as explained following dialog with the 911 operator:<br />Operator: OK so the doctor's seen what happened?<br /> Caller: (aside) Doctor, did you see what happened, sir? <br />If he was at the hotel, how could he discuss with doctor? Or how could he know that only the doctor was with Michael and makes CPR on the bed?<br />Then if Michael and Dr.M. were at Beverly Hills Hotel, who is the patient who was raised from the Carolwood Drive?<br />And in fact, if Alvarez was at the hotel, where exactly was he? He was in a room? Whose voices were then heard in the background is? Or was it just in the lobby and voices were just normal background noise in a hotel? Maybe that's why he spoke so calmly and avoid to pronounce the name of Michael Jackson because he was in a public place? "<br />Why just in MJ case everybody (doctor, operator and Appel) has put feet and broke the rules, risking to lose the chance to save lives? Or it was provided in the script? Or some things have escaped director?<br />And it even work in fog, there is a second version circulating on the net.<br />Dialogue appeared in the press immediately. Records of emergency calls be made public in the U.S. so easily?<br /> - Why caller stutter when to give details useful later in the investigation? For example. answer to the question: "The doctor saw what happened?".<br /> - Why Daily Mail says that the caller is named Tippy?<br /> />Who made this second record?Do you hear and what I hear in 1:01: "Just a minute"? Whose is that voice and what the hell to hang for a minute?<br /> />There is also a third recording of the call.If we could separate voices, can we deduct if it's a recording overlap, so a bluff, or even no replies: 0:22 to 0:30 - "It's blank" and "We want to start playing it now." or 0:47: "What do you want guys playing?".<br />
That is very interesting ellyd.....I didn't know that. <br /><br />Reading that info made me recall Nurse Practitioner Cherilyn Lee. <br /><br />Her testimony is here - I must rewatch: /><br />@wishy - thanks for the link to your post...very comprehensive and interesting!
Also agreed that the schedule picture may not have been current on 6-25-09, and schedules can change. For the purpose at hand, though, it doesn't really matter; in fact, the point that schedules can change (even unexpectedly) is my main reason for bringing up Blount.
<br />The fact he was put on shift C that day randomly shows the hoax would work even if unforeseen changes happen, as they do in a fast-paced world. So where does that leave us if perhaps the EMT’s were not in on the hoax? They were all just doing their job that day. To prepare for executing this hoax, like the old series Mission Impossible, MJ had to know perfectly the regular daily routine and possible variation of every one of the groups of people involved in the hoax, so that even if there were some slight changes, it wouldn't be drastic enough to derail the main event.<br /><br />
<br /><br />I find this a very interesting observation, MJonmind. It takes me back to TS's advice to change nothing except what was needed to execute the hoax, starting from no-one in it, no hoax, MJ died.<br /><br />... I find myself toying with the idea of what if the only thing changed was that it wasn't MJ who died?
<br /><br /> :th_bravo:<br /><br />And yes, MJonmind, doing things in real time (Level 7a, remember) opens the possibility, even if small, that a paramedic might show up that was not originally planned to be there; and the same goes for UCLA staff.<br /><br />This was my main purpose of mentioning Blount from another shift--whether he was actually from another shift, whether he was there unplanned, or whether he was from the same shift and in on the hoax, the point remains the same: plan the hoax around the realistic possibility that someone shows up unexpectedly.<br />
<br /><br />@TS, I meant to question this post yesterday. Although you went on to address MJonmind, it was my post you quoted and apparently applauded. I'm unsure if you were approving of stubborn old curls reassessing her long held ideas - or that she'd hit the nail on the head with her observation that it simply wasn't MJ who died. Care to clarify for me?
Oh, and one more thing - having slept on things, I am totally satisfied that MJ did not need to kick-off his death hoax in this way, with all the problems brought about by the inclusion of 911 call/paramedics/'bodies'/ambulance/UCLA.<br /><br />He could have included his important numbers/times etc in a far more straightforward/less 'risky' scenario with Murray finding him already dead and getting his body straight to the coroner. The police would still have investigated the unexpected death and followed up in the same way. We'd still have had an autopsy, manslaughter charge, trial etc etc.<br /><br />With the apparent need, that TS is pushing, for FBI involvement to cover unforseen circumstances with the 911/paramedic/ambulance/UCLA choice, I have to ask: whose hoax is it anyway - Michael Jackson's or the FBI's?
Perhaps.<br /><br />I know MJ pushes boundaries, never chooses the easy option etc etc .... but we're also lead to believe he wanted as few as possible to be in the know. 'Lead to be believe' might be the critical part of this sentence!!
<br /><br /><br />The clear intention for Michael Jackson to pull the hoax the way he did is just to fool the media to play THEM the same way THEY did to him, he is trying to ridicule media the way THEY did to him, Michael in this case is like a teacher teaching the lesson once and for all, it's like saying to the whole world: don't believe what is written and don't believe what you see, it's well known that in this hoax illusion has played and is playing a major role so every scene of the ambulance / stretcher / paramedics / UCLA / helicopter etc is just an illusion and a major TRICK to show the world that everything can be manipulated to get to be seen the way some people wants us to see it. <br /><br />I am pretty sure that after this hoax the whole world is gonna respect Michael the way he deserves once and for all thanks to his big effort to expose the devilish behaviours.<br /><br /><br />
<br />100% agree with you Sweetsunset! :th_bravo: I hope after the Bam all bad things related to Michael will be righted and general public will stop buying tabloids and stop believing news..and finally people will have respect for this wonderful man.
Well Bec, what you're saying is likely true--I'm just trying to go with the direction TS 'seems' to be going. And if he is continually playing DA, then we'll likely never find a clear winning answer, and that's maybe the way it's designed. I'm glad we've still got some members who have the ability/desire to dig up detailed/documented helpful info, or provide sharp reasoning skills to known info, but many of those have left shaking their heads at the seeming repetition of the precious levels. Level 3 and level 7b were both, 'who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance'. I've never been into video games trying to beat levels, but here I am, and I can't quit. :icon_eek: TS, oh what you do to me/us...have mercy. :bowdown: :icon_lol:<br /><br />Bec<br />
I say "staged" as in, didn't go through a real 911 operator. It was a call to LAFD dispatch for sure. The 911 call is what would hit police scanners, but if a private call was placed to a private number at LAFD dispatch, dispatch would plug all that information into the system and it would hit the call screen just like normal, but it would bypass the public channels (AS WELL AS make it legal. If the call were actually dialed 9-1-1 it would be a crime, since they would be making a false report to a 911 operator).
<br />This was one option (#6) TS gave on his masterpiece 911 call post.<br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,21289.msg369974.html#msg369974<br /><br />And I don't know where his ending words leave us... I guess it means we won't know until the third part of the magical illusion is complete, "you make the bird come back alive"! BAM! <br />:Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile<br />
Also, a magician does not give away all of his secrets...
<br /><br />Mjj4ever777, I agree with much of your post; these theories have been floated around in various bits and pieces, and I have toyed with them as well since the beginning. I have come to the conclusion there is one Michael Jackson, but with other 'identities' for his own creative reasons, and hoax and possible spiritual purposes.<br />
<br /> Who said Blount lied to the fan? That could have easily been the truth and he instead, lied on the stand.
<br /><br />Or maybe Blount did not lie to the fan OR on the stand. Maybe it was just as I portrayed it, in my last post.<br /><br />Although it's true that we should not gullibly believe everything we hear; on the other hand, it is also true that we should not reject everything we hear--merely because we can’t gullibly believe everything. We should seriously consider taking things at face value, unless there is solid evidence otherwise.<br />
<br /><br />wow, how much I missed these days!<br />TS, you don't know how much I love it when you are here.<br /><br />OK, quick: again, I think it was a corpse used. Don't really know how, but I think it was. I hope to have time to read more later.<br /><br />OK, totally agree with taking some things at face value.<br />
Thanks TS, for your presence here.<br />IMO, the FBI is in this from the start, MJ could not do it alone, there must be a strong authority for all to keep his mouth shut.<br />The theory of a doll does not seem feasible, I guess to get to UCLA with MJ doll pretending to be dead.<br />The existence of a real body is necessary in the scene, provided by the medical examiner, we all know that there are people in the morgue that nobody calls when entering Carolwood? may be the night before, we know that the surveillance tapes of the house disappeared, then there is evidence of income from the body in the house. With the body at the scene the night before have time to prepare everything turned out, propofol dose, vias connected and everything we already know. Having a real body there explains the high temperature in the bedroom, rigor mortis is delayed.<br />Paramedics "assume" that it's MJ, so does UCLA, in fact identified by his driver's license (lol).<br />And to give the final touch to the judgment sentencing Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter of an "alleged victim"<br />
<br /><br /><br />The clear intention for Michael Jackson to pull the hoax the way he did is just to fool the media to play THEM the same way THEY did to him, he is trying to ridicule media the way THEY did to him, Michael in this case is like a teacher teaching the lesson once and for all, it's like saying to the whole world: don't believe what is written and don't believe what you see, it's well known that in this hoax illusion has played and is playing a major role so every scene of the ambulance / stretcher / paramedics / UCLA / helicopter etc is just an illusion and a major TRICK to show the world that everything can be manipulated to get to be seen the way some people wants us to see it. <br /><br />I am pretty sure that after this hoax the whole world is gonna respect Michael the way he deserves once and for all thanks to his big effort to expose the devilish behaviours.<br /><br /><br />
<br />100% agree with you Sweetsunset! :th_bravo: I hope after the Bam all bad things related to Michael will be righted and general public will stop buying tabloids and stop believing news..and finally people will have respect for this wonderful man.<br />
<br /><br />@Sweetsunset You just read my mind. My dream was that the 2 boys that accused Mj for "you know what" would come forward and tell the media it was all a LIE. I'm still hoping and will always hope that Michael Jackson will be respected as he deserves as a Music genius, caring and wonderful Man.<br />Just a Thought what if it's was a real alive person that went to the hospital,before the paramedics come to the house they gave that person some medicine that it appear he was not breathing and Dead.(Like they did in the movie Romeo and Julia with Claire Danes character .CRAZY huh.) Hope u all get what I mean
<br />Thanks TS, for your presence here.<br />IMO, the FBI is in this from the start, MJ could not do it alone, there must be a strong authority for all to keep his mouth shut.<br />The theory of a doll does not seem feasible, I guess to get to UCLA with MJ doll pretending to be dead.<br />The existence of a real body is necessary in the scene, provided by the medical examiner, we all know that there are people in the morgue that nobody calls when entering Carolwood? may be the night before, [size=12pt]we know that the surveillance tapes of the house disappeared,[/size] then there is evidence of income from the body in the house. With the body at the scene the night before have time to prepare everything turned out, propofol dose, vias connected and everything we already know. Having a real body there explains the high temperature in the bedroom, rigor mortis is delayed.<br />Paramedics "assume" that it's MJ, so does UCLA, in fact identified by his driver's license (lol).<br />And to give the final touch to the judgment sentencing Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter of an "alleged victim"<br />
<br /><br />marumjj - You raise an interesting perspective there about the surveillance tapes from Carolwood. In fact they were deleted/erased (perhaps "conveniently" ?) and not missing as was 1st reported.<br /><br />http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/24/people-vs-dr-conrad-murray-alex-supall-testifies/<br /><br />[size=12pt]PEOPLE VS. DR. CONRAD MURRAY <br />Big Problem<br />With MJ Surveillance Tape[/size]<br /><br />Lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray are insinuating ... the LAPD did a sloppy job retrieving evidence from Michael Jackson's surveillance cameras the day the singer died -- failing to make copies of crucial footage before it was erased.<br /><br />The defense's second witness -- a surveillance specialist for the LAPD named Alex Supall -- just testified, he only handed over a few minutes of surveillance footage to investigators, showing MJ arriving home for the last time at around 12:45AM on June 25th, 2009.<br /><br />As TMZ first reported, Murray's lawyers have had a big problem with how investigators only recorded a small fraction of surveillance footage from that day -- and demanded to see the entire 24-hour tape.<br /><br />Specifically, Murray's lawyers want to see who entered MJ's house during that period -- footage that could prove their theory that evidence in the house was tampered with.<br /><br />Problem is ... the cameras run on a 24-hour loop -- so, Supall testified, if the footage hasn't been transferred ... it's replaced with new footage and cannot be retrieved.<br /><br />Supall said he only copied those few minutes to establish a timeline of when the singer returned home after his last rehearsal on June 24 -- everything else is gone forever.<br /><br />
<br />so where do we stand? there must be atleast a consolidated review to what we've been discussing...whether it's right or wrong... :icon_neutral:<br />
<br /><br />Nope! There are almost as many views as there are members! That's actually far healthier than all following someone's lead, don't you think?
<br />so where do we stand? there must be atleast a consolidated review to what we've been discussing...whether it's right or wrong... :icon_neutral:<br />
<br /><br />Nope! There are almost as many views as there are members! That's actually far healthier than all following someone's lead, don't you think?<br />
<br /><br />well, having opinions is really good, but we're only going in circles... :icon_bounce:
<br />Thanks TS, for your presence here.<br />IMO, the FBI is in this from the start, MJ could not do it alone, there must be a strong authority for all to keep his mouth shut.<br />The theory of a doll does not seem feasible, I guess to get to UCLA with MJ doll pretending to be dead.<br />The existence of a real body is necessary in the scene, provided by the medical examiner, we all know that there are people in the morgue that nobody calls when entering Carolwood? may be the night before, we know that the surveillance tapes of the house disappeared, then there is evidence of income from the body in the house. With the body at the scene the night before have time to prepare everything turned out, propofol dose, vias connected and everything we already know. Having a real body there explains the high temperature in the bedroom, rigor mortis is delayed.<br />Paramedics "assume" that it's MJ, so does UCLA, in fact identified by his driver's license (lol).<br />And to give the final touch to the judgment sentencing Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter of an "alleged victim"<br />
<br /><br />that was really nice maru, i had forgotten about the high temperatures...
<br />Notice also the difference in the reports of Senneff and Blount, regarding the recognition of the patient.<br /><br />
<br /><br />and I've also noticed that there's a difference in the reports of Senneff and Blount regarding the time when Murray was scooping up the Lidocaine bottles<br /><br />
Senneff, the other paramedic, testified he saw Murray clearing out vials after MJ was loaded onto the ambulance.<br /><br />What's interesting -- Blount says he saw Murray scooping up Lidocaine bottles into a black bag even before the singer was taken out of the room.<br /><br />
As I took Curls advice and walked a bit today, I was thinking about the FBI-theory.<br /><br />IF the FBI is involved, would they let MJ / Front / TS give away clues?<br />I don't know, but I don't think they would.<br /><br />Just because if the FBI is involved, I think the FBI want's the scenario to run as silent as they can.<br />Without any change that the public, or the people they are after, will notice that it's all a set-up.<br /><br />For example: If a SWAT-team wants to arrest someone, the whole plan is a complete secret for everybody, especially the person that they are after.<br />So that the arrest is a complete surprise and the suspect cannot react.<br />In my opinion the FBI would have to work on the same way, so that the suspect can't react.<br /><br />With all the hoax-clues we are given and Ts & Front on this website, it doesn't sounds like an FBI-programm.<br /><br /><br />Again I don't know ofcourse
Heating the ambient air temperature around a corpse does not and will not delay rigor mortis. Rigor is triggered by metabolic death, not room temperature. Rigor also begins to set in as fast as 30 minutes from TOD. This is why you cannot close the eyes of a corpse unless you close them immediately following cellular death. Even 5-10 minutes later is too late. They will not close.<br /><br />I forgot, the eyes of the patient in the ambulance pic are closed, so the statements about "fixed and dilated" pupils and "blank stare" would not apply if the ambulance pic was staged with a dummy that was also being described at the scene.<br /><br />I still have a very difficult time accepting that the FBI authorized a person to be killed to satisfy MJ's numerology timeline for a hoax. That's murder. We have seen extraordinary lengths taken to NOT break the law throughout this hoax, it doesn't fit that the whole thing began with the murder of one of the participants.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />I still have a very difficult time accepting that the FBI authorized a person to be killed to satisfy MJ's numerology timeline for a hoax. That's murder. We have seen extraordinary lengths taken to NOT break the law throughout this hoax, it doesn't fit that the whole thing began with the murder of one of the participants.<br /><br /><br />
<br />As I took Curls advice and walked a bit today, I was thinking about the FBI-theory.<br /><br />IF the FBI is involved, would they let MJ / Front / TS give away clues?<br />I don't know, but I don't think they would.<br /><br />Just because if the FBI is involved, I think the FBI want's the scenario to run as silent as they can.<br />Without any change that the public, or the people they are after, will notice that it's all a set-up.<br /><br />For example: If a SWAT-team wants to arrest someone, the whole plan is a complete secret for everybody, especially the person that they are after.<br />So that the arrest is a complete surprise and the suspect cannot react.<br />In my opinion the FBI would have to work on the same way, so that the suspect can't react.<br /><br />With all the hoax-clues we are given and Ts & Front on this website, it doesn't sounds like an FBI-programm.<br /><br /><br />Again I don't know ofcourse <br />
<br /><br />i think the clues might be permitted to be given if we are a part of the sting...to check who catches the message and who doesn't.<br /><br /><br /><br />
on 1353599712:
<br />Heating the ambient air temperature around a corpse does not and will not delay rigor mortis. Rigor is triggered by metabolic death, not room temperature. Rigor also begins to set in as fast as 30 minutes from TOD. This is why you cannot close the eyes of a corpse unless you close them immediately following cellular death. Even 5-10 minutes later is too late. They will not close.<br /><br />I forgot, the eyes of the patient in the ambulance pic are closed, so the statements about "fixed and dilated" pupils and "blank stare" would not apply if the ambulance pic was staged with a dummy that was also being described at the scene.<br /><br />I still have a very difficult time accepting that the FBI authorized a person to be killed to satisfy MJ's numerology timeline for a hoax. That's murder. We have seen extraordinary lengths taken to NOT break the law throughout this hoax, it doesn't fit that the whole thing began with the murder of one of the participants.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />thank u Bec about the info of the temperature... I've been thinking the other way..<br /><br />If the sting is to bring out the truth and expose the frauds, isn't it possible that FBI itself gives permission to let a corpse take place ?and if the justice system is also a part of the sting, does it really matter to be accurately according to the "law" ?
<br />Heating the ambient air temperature around a corpse does not and will not delay rigor mortis. Rigor is triggered by metabolic death, not room temperature. Rigor also begins to set in as fast as 30 minutes from TOD. This is why you cannot close the eyes of a corpse unless you close them immediately following cellular death. Even 5-10 minutes later is too late. They will not close.<br /><br />I forgot, the eyes of the patient in the ambulance pic are closed, so the statements about "fixed and dilated" pupils and "blank stare" would not apply if the ambulance pic was staged with a dummy that was also being described at the scene.<br /><br />I still have a very difficult time accepting that the FBI authorized a person to be killed to satisfy MJ's numerology timeline for a hoax. That's murder. We have seen extraordinary lengths taken to NOT break the law throughout this hoax, it doesn't fit that the whole thing began with the murder of one of the participants.<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />This discredits the theory of the corpse
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