Asked to describe Jackson's condition when she first saw him, Cooper said: "He was clinically dead" with no pulse and monitored "signs of a dying heart."<br /><br />Nevertheless, she said, a big ER team started all-out attempts to revive Jackson.<br />
<br /><br />I still wonder why the ER team started to revive MJ, even after Dr. Cooper had authorized the paramedics to declare MJ dead and even when she described MJ clinically dead at the hospital. Is this conform protocol? Or is a certain place and time of death declaration also relevant and convenient to particular parties of interest :suspect:<br />
Jos, you bring up a good point, if the FBI can make it ok to kill someone for the hoax, why do we need to bother with the word "alleged" in the verdict to make it all legal? If the FBI is involved/in charge, they can make EVERYTHING legal, right? I just don't buy it.<br /><br />Also, if the FBI is in charge, why conflicting testimony? Wouldn't the characters be well prepared with scripted testimony? Why a stiff, rigid frame posing as MJ's body in helicopter scene? A real body's feet would flop to the side and remain that way due to rigor as mentioned. If it's a sting operation, and a real body is being used to fool emergency personnel as part of the sting, does that mean it is a sting on paramedics and UCLA ER doctors? Or do they need to be fooled in order to fool someone else, fooled by proxy? So the nurses then, is it a sting on nurses? Maybe a sting on the coroner's assistant(s)? Why else would they need to be fooled? Who's coming in contact with the body that the use of a real corpse is designed to fool thus producing the sting? And why does Michael Jackson have to die to reveal corruption in the nursing/paramedic/coroner/ER doctor industry in the first place? How does an actual, physical MJ corpse out the pharmaceutical and medical supply companies? I think the Real Body Authorized By The FBI is a disconnected theory. Is there anyone who supports the real body theory that wants to connect the dots? I cannot, which is why I reject it.
In all reality, the FBI needs to work within the boundaries of the law in the United States. They are not above the law nor can they surreptitiousness rewrite the legal code to allow them to catch bad guys. Scandals sometimes erupt when the agency is accused of breaking the law or not conducting themselves in a legal manner. The FBI cannot authorize the death of a person unless the white house hands down orders to take out an enemy of the state and then that would be done through the CIA aka Osama bin Laden take down two years ago, or the military aka sniper shooting Somalian pirates years ago as well.
going by your post, bec, there is no corpse and no FBI... if there's no FBI, influencing so many people to co-operate in the hoax would be quite impossible...don't you think?
No, I'm saying FBI and real corpse theories don't gel. One doesn't work with the other. There maybe FBI involved (providing clearance?) but with or without their involvement I support the no corpse theory. I'm saying in fact, IF the FBI is involved, this is actually evidence against the corpse theory for multiple reasons.
<br />No, I'm saying FBI and real corpse theories don't gel. There may be FBI involved (providing clearance?) but with or without their involvement I support the no corpse theory. I'm saying in fact, IF the FBI is involved, this is actually evidence against the corpse theory for multiple reasons.<br />
Just thought this could've been a reaction on our latest discussions:<br /><br />Michael Jackson@michaeljackson<;br /><br />“I'm really very self-confident when it comes to my work. When I take on a project, I believe in it 100%t. I really put my soul into it.”<br />
If he "really put his soul into it", that would be if MJ himself actually died, and was brought back to life somehow later at UCLA, but we were not told about that. Miracle resurrection...
<br /><br />but is it a fact that when all levels will be done by the end of 2012 that the hoax will be finished as well? I mean did TS make a statement that when all levels will be completed by the end of 2012 that there will be a bam? Perhaps there will be a sequel with level #9 of resurrection in 2013 ?<br />
<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,20134.msg348767.html<br /><br />I apologize if I may have given a negative impression of lack of faith or doubt. My questions were merely based on my search for certainty and facts about the BAM, because I wish for it so wholeheartedly, though I realize that at this moment is not possible to have certainty and facts. It is just a matter of having faith in Michael, TS and Front. This faith is a fact and that is all what is needed for the BAM. In the meantime whatever happens, I'll wait and watch with FAITH and LOVE. :bearhug: :bearhug: :bearhug:<br /><br />
<br /><br />TS did say that if Michael doesn't return by January 1 , 2013 then he can be considered a fake informer, but i strongly believe that come back will be before (or at least on) December 21, 2012...<br />I've read in few websites that the period after December 21 will bring a remarkable positive change in the world and that the world will be filled with love, so I'm actually linking Michael's comeback with it I'm thinking of Michael's words in "This is it" before Man In The Mirror about putting "Love back into the world" and "Love is important"...<br /><br /> />
It was 49 years ago today that JFK was assassinated and people still don't know the truth about that and some who have made an effort to find out, like JFK Jr., were met with the same fate. Oswald was the fall guy for the official story and the official story doesn't make sense when you actually look at the evidence. The local police handled the case until the FBI were directed to take over the investigation.<br /><br />Let's say the same group of people who masterminded JFK's death also masterminded 9/11 (and whatever else you can realistically add to the list, which is quite a lot). This sort of thing is nothing new to TIAI.<br /><br />MJ was supposed to have a meeting near the top of one of the 9/11 buildings that day, La Toya said that in her book, but he slept in. <br /><br />I don't think it's far-fetched to think the FBI would look into conspiracy theory claims, especially when there is supporting and damning evidence. It's likely the FBI has evidence as to who really killed JFK and who was really behind 9/11. The FBI states that Public Corruption is there #1 criminal priority. <br /><br />I don't know how you'd go about "catching" that group of people (TPTB, etc) but they would need to be exposed suddenly, loudly, and undeniably (best case scenario - too many people as witnesses). Or privately but unexpectedly. I can't say with certainty there is a sting but if there are agents in the FBI who are wanting the truth to be exposed and MJ has the same goal, working together would be an obvious solution.<br /><br /><br />Edit: a new member Sunnie actually bumped an old TS thread that talks about 9/11, while I was typing the above. It's a good reminder.<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1927.0/topicseen.html
Concerning the FBI’s involvement I thought that we agreed that the 333 files released on 12/21/2009 were taken as a convincing clue that they were in on it? At least some key people.
<br />Concerning the FBI’s involvement I thought that we agreed that the 333 files released on 12/21/2009 were taken as a convincing clue that they were in on it? At least some key people.<br />
<br /><br />Yes, that and the 333 pages always referred to MJ as either Michael Jackson or Michael Joe Jackson. When the FBI wrote a blurb on his "death", they named him Michael Joseph Jackson. I also played around with numbers and found a lot of "coincidences". <br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18185&p=317514&#p317514
<br />Concerning the FBI’s involvement I thought that we agreed that the 333 files released on 12/21/2009 were taken as a convincing clue that they were in on it? At least some key people.<br />
<br /><br />I wonder if I'll ever be able to say or type the word "coincidence" without the quotes, or in conversation without air quotes. :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br /> :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:<br /><br />Too funny...thanks for the smile Andrea : ) <br />Blessings!
I am one who believes that the body in the ambulance was fake. Also @bec, I believe this is the info from the paramedic who says the 911 call was a hoax and not official.<br /><br />http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/24/michael.jackson.tape/index.html<br /><br /><br /><br />Paramedic: Alleged Michael Jackson ambulance tape is a hoax<br />By Alan Duke, CNN<br />February 24, 2010 8:11 p.m. EST<br />A recording released by a London tabloid that purports to be a call about Michael Jackson's death has been deemed a fake.<br />STORY HIGHLIGHTS<br />Paramedic says the voice on the recording is not his, said Los Angeles Fire Department<br />Speakers on recording did not use "standard protocol" used by paramedics<br />Tabloid posted the recording online, saying it proved Jackson had no pulse<br />Dr. Conrad Murray charged with involuntary manslaughter in singer's death<br />RELATED TOPICS<br />Michael Jackson<br />Music<br />Celebrity News<br />Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- A paramedic who rushed Michael Jackson to a hospital the day he died said a recording purported to be him calling the emergency room is a fake, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.<br />A British tabloid posted the recording online, suggesting it was evidence that Jackson had no pulse at the time, contrary to what his personal doctor said.<br />The audio "has been determined NOT to be the voice of any member of the Los Angeles Fire Department," fire spokesman Brian Humphrey said in a written statement Wednesday.<br />"The Firefighter/Paramedic who handled communications for that incident has confirmed to LAFD Administration that the voice is not his," Humphrey said.<br />One initial cause of skepticism about the recording was that the speakers did not use "standard protocol or established practice" followed by professional paramedics when they communicate with hospital staff, Humphrey said.<br />Dr. Conrad Murray has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's June 25 death, which the coroner ruled was caused by a combination of drugs given to him that morning.<br />The Sun newspaper did not reveal the source of the recording, but characterized it as a "911 tape."<br />The disputed recording features a male, who says he is a paramedic in an ambulance, speaking to a female, who is supposedly at the emergency room of UCLA Medical Center.<br />"We have a male, 50. Pop star Michael Jackson. Unresponsive, no pulse. Tried to resuscitate him. Unsuccessful. We are en route," the male voice said.<br />"OK. We'll have doctors standing by," the female voice replied.<br />"We've done everything we can here in the ambulance. Hopefully, when we get there -- we should be there in five minutes," the male said. "It doesn't look good."<br />Humphrey said it is routine for paramedics to use a cell phone or a two-way radio to talk to an emergency room as they rush to a hospital, but they "don't normally speak like this in a medical response."<br />Specifically, the paramedic would not be likely to use a patient's name in the conversation, even if it is a celebrity, Humphrey said.<br />It would be routine for the hospital to record the conversations for legal reasons, he said.<br />UCLA Medical Center spokesman Dale Triber Tate said, "There is no way we could authenticate it even if we had patient/estate authorization, which we do not have."<br /><br />An authenticated recording of the 911 call for help from Jackson's Holmby Hills, California, home was released by the fire department the day after the pop icon's death. - Who determined which one was correct? I never knew there were 2 different scenario calls.<br /><br />A Jackson bodyguard, who was in the room as Murray tried to revive him, spoke to the 911 operator:<br />"He's not breathing, and we're trying to pump him, but he's not breathing," the bodyguard said. "He's not responding to CPR or anything,"<br />"We're less than a mile away and we'll be there shortly," the operator said.<br />Hoax recordings have emerged since Jackson's death, including a video produced by a German TV show that purported to show a living Jackson stepping out of a coroner's van.<br /><br />A spokeswoman for RTL, the leading private broadcaster in Germany, later said it was an experiment to show how easy it is to spread rumors online.So who’s lying and who’s telling the truth. Makes you wonder :icon_e_confused:
<br /><br />I wonder if I'll ever be able to say or type the word "coincidence" without the quotes, or in conversation without air quotes. :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br /> :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121: :thjajaja121:<br /><br />Too funny...thanks for the smile Andrea : ) <br />Blessings!<br />
<br /><br />I happen the same but with the word "dead" :icon_lol: :thjajaja121:<br />
I thought of a real body at the scene is that in this way does not involve as many people in the deception, if a doll come to UCLA, by God no one noticed?<br />is supposed to be the smallest number of people known to
<br />I thought of a real body at the scene is that in this way does not involve as many people in the deception, if a doll come to UCLA, by God no one noticed?<br />is supposed to be the smallest number of people known to<br />
<br /><br />This photo deception to the whole world<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />And all these men surrounding the stretcher not to allow very little to look at, I suppose that inside of the hospital is equal <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Something like this gave result<br /><br />
<br />I am one who believes that the body in the ambulance was fake. Also @bec, I believe this is the info from the paramedic who says the 911 call was a hoax and not official.<br /><br />http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/24/michael.jackson.tape/index.html<br /><br /><br /><br />Paramedic: Alleged Michael Jackson ambulance tape is a hoax<br />By Alan Duke, CNN<br />February 24, 2010 8:11 p.m. EST<br />A recording released by a London tabloid that purports to be a call about Michael Jackson's death has been deemed a fake.<br />STORY HIGHLIGHTS<br />Paramedic says the voice on the recording is not his, said Los Angeles Fire Department<br />Speakers on recording did not use "standard protocol" used by paramedics<br />Tabloid posted the recording online, saying it proved Jackson had no pulse<br />Dr. Conrad Murray charged with involuntary manslaughter in singer's death<br />RELATED TOPICS<br />Michael Jackson<br />Music<br />Celebrity News<br />Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- A paramedic who rushed Michael Jackson to a hospital the day he died said a recording purported to be him calling the emergency room is a fake, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.<br />A British tabloid posted the recording online, suggesting it was evidence that Jackson had no pulse at the time, contrary to what his personal doctor said.<br />The audio "has been determined NOT to be the voice of any member of the Los Angeles Fire Department," fire spokesman Brian Humphrey said in a written statement Wednesday.<br />"The Firefighter/Paramedic who handled communications for that incident has confirmed to LAFD Administration that the voice is not his," Humphrey said.<br />One initial cause of skepticism about the recording was that the speakers did not use "standard protocol or established practice" followed by professional paramedics when they communicate with hospital staff, Humphrey said.<br />Dr. Conrad Murray has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's June 25 death, which the coroner ruled was caused by a combination of drugs given to him that morning.<br />The Sun newspaper did not reveal the source of the recording, but characterized it as a "911 tape."<br />The disputed recording features a male, who says he is a paramedic in an ambulance, speaking to a female, who is supposedly at the emergency room of UCLA Medical Center.<br />"We have a male, 50. Pop star Michael Jackson. Unresponsive, no pulse. Tried to resuscitate him. Unsuccessful. We are en route," the male voice said.<br />"OK. We'll have doctors standing by," the female voice replied.<br />"We've done everything we can here in the ambulance. Hopefully, when we get there -- we should be there in five minutes," the male said. "It doesn't look good."<br />Humphrey said it is routine for paramedics to use a cell phone or a two-way radio to talk to an emergency room as they rush to a hospital, but they "don't normally speak like this in a medical response."<br />Specifically, the paramedic would not be likely to use a patient's name in the conversation, even if it is a celebrity, Humphrey said.<br />It would be routine for the hospital to record the conversations for legal reasons, he said.<br />UCLA Medical Center spokesman Dale Triber Tate said, "There is no way we could authenticate it even if we had patient/estate authorization, which we do not have."<br /><br />An authenticated recording of the 911 call for help from Jackson's Holmby Hills, California, home was released by the fire department the day after the pop icon's death. - Who determined which one was correct? I never knew there were 2 different scenario calls.<br /><br />A Jackson bodyguard, who was in the room as Murray tried to revive him, spoke to the 911 operator:<br />"He's not breathing, and we're trying to pump him, but he's not breathing," the bodyguard said. "He's not responding to CPR or anything,"<br />"We're less than a mile away and we'll be there shortly," the operator said.<br />Hoax recordings have emerged since Jackson's death, including a video produced by a German TV show that purported to show a living Jackson stepping out of a coroner's van.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Yes but they're referring to a different recording, not the now famous 911 call recording but rather a video that popped up on YouTube many months after 6/25/09 (might have been even a year later). The video showed an ambulance interior, vaguely (it was filmed from the front seat through the windshield as someone else was driving) and supposedly captured the call by a paramedic while on the MJ emergency call en route to UCLA. You might remember it, hes, it was never considered seriously (as real) by the hoax community and it was determined to be fake within approx 24hrs. The paramedic's official statement you quoted in your post helped to denounce it once and for all but again, it was a suspected fake from the get-go.<br /><br /><br />@marumjj<;br />
on 1353630536:
<br />I thought of a real body at the scene is that in this way does not involve as many people in the deception, if a doll come to UCLA, by God no one noticed?<br />is supposed to be the smallest number of people known to<br />
<br /><br />Well TS says as few as possible, and we long speculated as few as possible, but TS says a lot of things, and new information sometimes comes up, or we look at old information in a new way. I think the more info comes out, and the further we consider the Big Picture, the more the signs are pointing in the direction of a much bigger cast and crew in on the hoax then we ever thought prior.<br /><br />For example, a dead body that isn't MJ isn't going to fool many people at all; a sticky fact that would necessitate several people in on it, or at least all the first hand individuals; anyone who would come into first hand contact with the corpse. At least anyone who testified that they came into contact with it. The others we are merely assuming were actually there. We assume nurses and physician's assistants were involved but were they? We don't know for certain because we didn't see it nor did we hear them give a statement as to what they witnessed, or what they did or did not do. So we have 4 paramedics, 3 bodyguards, 1 Murray, and 2 ER docs having either testified to handling the body or having been witnessed (stretcher gif) directly participating. <br /><br />So if all those people have to be in on it anyway, why bring MORE people in on it by procuring a corpse or victim slated to be murdered and all the personnel and individuals involved with that task (and approval and clearance)? The listed 10 people are already in on it, why not just use a life-like dummy that will look exactly like MJ on the stretcher for anyone not listed above who happens to sneak a peak or a glimpse, not potentially traumatizing any of the participants, not potentially inspiring ethical conflicts for any participant, and above all, not having to bring anyone else in on it by involving the complication of FBI authorized premeditated murder as well?<br /><br />As far as the possibility of someone walking into the room where they are reportedly "working" on MJ, how about they just lock the door? There may have been NO nurses or technitions or assistants directly involved at all. All of them who would normally be on duty and required to jump in may have been told it's a high profile case and there's a "special team", go do xyz somewhere else instead, shoo, and they would likely accept that. These 10 people could chill for the hour n something they were reportedly trying to save MJ's life behind locked doors in that "private wing" of the ER, talk about the next step, prepare the dummy (wrapped in shroud) and begin coordinating the transfer to helicopter team (who doesn't have to know anything, they will accept that they are transporting the "decoy" to draw the media away from the "real" body, and move a dummy without a second thought).<br /><br />A real body is more complicated and either involves more people in on it or compounds the risk factor exponentially. Either everyone directly in contact with the body has to be in on it or else MJ is trying to fool them. Trying is the key word. To "try" to to attempt. There's a chance of failure when you "try". What happens in this scenario if someone isn't fooled? The hoax is toast, or put severely at risk. Therefore I believe everyone who came into direct contact with the body on 6/25/09 must be in on it, because I don't believe this would be left to chance, and I do believe considered the scope and magnitude of this project, everything would be pre-authorized, prearranged, and pre-approved before Go so that everything would run exactly according to plan like a well-oiled machine. <br /><br />If everyone who is coming in direct contact with the body is in on it ahead of time and the entire thing is choreographed from start to finish as I suspect, why add the additional complication, not mention the legal and ethical snare trap, of a real dead human being? I cannot theorize a motive for a real corpse in this hoax with the information I have so far.
<br /><br />Something like this gave result<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />yeah I'm still thinking a dummy was used. btw Just watched Spike Lee's BAD movie. He showed the making of Leave me alone video, studio scenes, then cut to Jermaine's announcement at the hospital. Made me think of this photo posted here. <br /><br />There was also mention of a case with a cpr doll 'little annie' and ppl asking why does he have this, learning cpr? whose life is he trying to save? And MJ kept saying Annie are you okay? over and over... something like that. :icon_lol:
<br /><br />Something like this gave result<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />yeah I'm still thinking a dummy was used. btw Just watched Spike Lee's BAD movie. He showed the making of Leave me alone video, studio scenes, then cut to Jermaine's announcement at the hospital. Made me think of this photo posted here. <br /><br />There was also mention of a case with a cpr doll 'little annie' and ppl asking why does he have this, learning cpr? whose life is he trying to save? And MJ kept saying Annie are you okay? over and over... something like that. :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br />wow! cut to Jermaine's announcement? looks like Bad 25 had some clues...i wasn't able to watch it BTW
<br /><br />[size=14pt]Has anyone been able to figure out what it says on the back of "Dr. Murray's" shirt (the guy on the left of the photo) ??[/size]
If the FBI are involved in this I'd say Murray is a prime candidate. He was apparently present before, during and after the 'main event' to smooth out any wrinkles - and remember when MJ was reported to have said 'I trust him with my life'. Could've been dramatic irony given the upcoming 'outcome', but could also have been a nod to well-founded trust.
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