TIAI December 21

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  • Suzy7Suzy7 Posts: 314
    To elaborate a little further on science, science teaches many things. There is a reason why the majority of scientists who are well known in the field of science are atheists; perhaps they have an agenda to push. To get people to not believe in God or The Bible.<br /><br /> Some might say it's ridiculous to believe in God or a fairy tale such as The Bible, but why? The idea that we came from monkey's, our perfectly designed universe and everything in it came about by mere accident-from nothing, and aliens exist to fly around and do nothing in better technology than humans have, all seem like absurd, illogical theories to me. Yet it's hard to believe in God? Really? These are all things science teach people to believe in, mind you evolution has been debunked nor is it science because it cannot be proven. Thusly, it's a mere theory; just like aliens and the big bang theory. The irony is if you try to calculate the statistical possibilities that everything within and outside of our planet came about by "accident" it is impossible; especially considering the design within nature.<br /><br /> Scientists have a purpose for the government, and if we have learned to question our government; why not question what they tell us is true in regards to aliens etc.? Consider the source right? If our government officials are pushing the alien and/or evolution theories, we should ask why? If they lie about everything else, than why would those things not also be a lie? <br /><br /> The interesting thing here, is people say Michael is a genius, being he believes in The Bible so much so that he read it almost everyday, if The Bible is based on lies and ridiculous untruths: do those things not contradict eachother? A genius believing in unfounded lies and fanciful theories? Those 2 things seem to cancel eachother out, no?<br /><br /><br />@Bec-I';m aware it's a saying, but that is the irony as you said. One can apply it to many things, but when applied to religion for someone who believes in The Bible, it is literally The Gospel.
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Wow.
  • Suzy7Suzy7 Posts: 314
    ?
  • on 1324710772:
    <br /> @Heartsong I never said that; I think there are facts in The Bible but faith must also be used, much like this hoax. We have evidence, but we need faith aswell. Of course if you don't believe in it, you'll think otherwise.
    <br /><br />When we have hard evidence, belief and faith are irrelevant and not required. I think observational reality and evidence will help us solve the answers to what happened on June 25th '09, not faith.<br /><br />
    Science is flawed, and scientists are constantly changing their beliefs and debunking their own theories previously held amongst the majority as "truth". Some will say religion and science don't mix, I tend to think scientists and religion don't mix.
    <br /><br />This can appear to be so, since science modifies it's theories to fit reality. It tests assertions inside out. Any that fail the tests are thrown out since the scientific process actually tries to disprove or falsify postulates. Ie: the statement "All swans are white" would be disproved or falsified by the discovery of at least one black swan. This is what scientists always try to do. It does not mean that they were wrong, just that they did not have all the information yet. This is honest enquiry and it works. Technology proves it.<br /><br />
    If anything, the study of science--atoms, molecules, DNA--all prove the existence of an intelligent creator. Learning about all of these things, for example the intricate system of DNA within our bodies and nature; or the perfect mathematics in everything from the solar system to a flower, I wonder how one cannot believe in a God? So in my opinion, science can be used to prove a creator exists rather than disprove.
    <br /><br />This is an argument from incredulity: "I can't understand it, it is too complicated, therefore God must have done it" Using magic to explain observational reality explains nothing and causes us to sit down. Scientists know very well about DNA/RNA and what it is comprised of- the very building blocks of all life on this planet.<br /><br />
    Science is based on the premise that a tangible, physical claim can be either proved or disproved by more tangible/physical evidence. Therefore, how can something non-physical or intangible such as God, or spirits etc, be disproved by lack of physical evidence? Or, why does the divine existence of a God need to be proven based upon physical evidence?
    <br /><br />Because this intangible, non-physical being claims to have created the tangible, physical world we are a part of. This being claims to interact with our thoughts, is omniscient, omnipresent, can cure cancer, answer prayers, raise the dead, impregnate virgins and move mountains accompanied by other miracles. If he is there he is part of observational reality and should be detectable. I think the claim that God is intangible and therefore unknowable is a convenient out. <br /><br />
    We can't see wind but when it blows we feel it's existence. We can't see gravity, but the fact that "what goes up must come down" and our feet stay on the floor etc., proves it exists. It can go on and on. The fact is that just because the human mind cannot fathom the existence of an infinite, intelligent designer does not mean he doesn't exist; it only means we can't prove it with physical evidence. Humans are curious creatures constantly needing to know why, how, when, where and who, whilst reducing everything to things that fit within our realm of understanding. Sometimes we really do just need to have faith and combine it with logic.<br />
    <br /><br />Ahhhh, but faith and logic are chalk and cheese. Yes, many things we can't see, hear or feel are still detectable and I have faith in gravity mainly because I know it works (as does science) though if I had never seen gravity demonstrated or used before I would be very skeptical until I had proven it's existence, and our realm of understanding is much, much wider than what is expressed in the Bible.<br /><br /><br /><br />
  • Suzy7Suzy7 Posts: 314
    Not necessarily, and a non-physical being still cannot be proven to exist with physical evidence; nor does it *need* to be. Science and religion cannot mix in regards to that aspect. I also never said "I didn't understand so GOD must have done it" no, I understand these things well, my point is: perfect mathematical design which exists within nature, is statistically impossible to have occurred by chance/accident; especially when you take into account our whole universe and everything within it. But we can agree to disagree.
  • Understanding and explaining scientific issues doesn't really mean that there is a need to exclude faith and belief....we are just understanding and explaining. The most rational thought must be to believe in a CREATOR since scientifically thinking is also to imply an ORIGIN to everything that exists.
  • mathematical design of that nature is statistically impossible within our whole universe.[
    <br /><br />Suzy, with respect, could you please explain this claim? Firstly nature was not "designed"...
  • diggyondiggyon Posts: 1,376
    on 1324643182:
    <br /> In the end, I'm absolutely convinced the Bible promises that all will be saved, and that [size=14pt]not one person will burn in hell. [/size] All humans, whether "evil" bankers or church pastors are only doing as they have been guided to do in their role, given by God. <br />
    <br /><br />[size=14pt]? ? ? ? ? ?[/size]<br /><br />If what you're saying is right, then I will go and do all kinds of sins, steal, kill and do follow the Illuminati evil plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought hell is mentioned in the bible!!! We have to follow God's words. If we don't we will go to hell. If we worship the devil, then at the end hell will expect us. Adam was thrown out of heaven because he followed the devil's words. So I go and worship the devil and still go to heaven? Do you want to convince me that those who want to kill humanity and want to eliminate the world population with their evil plans will at the end be awarded and will go to heaven?? If they do then this means that there is no devine justice at all and there is not even hope in God. What do we always say about God???? The real justice is not on earth. It's in God's hands and he will award those who follow his words. <br /><br />@bec <br />I totally agree. The bible has been changed during all these centuries. For me, it's not that reliable at all. Totally agree. Sometimes I don't even know what to believe and what not to believe. 
  • diggyondiggyon Posts: 1,376
    on 1324719900:
    <br />Understanding and explaining scientific issues doesn't really mean that there is a need to exclude faith and belief....we are just understanding and explaining. The most rational thought must be to believe in a CREATOR since scientifically thinking is also to imply an ORIGIN to everything that exists.<br />
    <br /><br />I love your post. Totally agree..... when I look at a fly I sometimes wonder how such a tiny insect can fly and even hide if it feels danger. For me, the fly alone is a miracle..... So imagine the whole universe.....It's God's almighty creation and I feel so humble comparing to his work.
  • Well then - you're in good company since a lot of scientists sooner or later come to a conclusion like 'the more I learn the more I belive in the existance of a creator'
  • diggyondiggyon Posts: 1,376
    on 1324722573:
    <br />Well then - you're in good company since a lot of scientists sooner or later come to a conclusion like 'the more I learn the more I belive in the existance of a creator'<br />
    <br /><br />I hope I am :-)
  • MJonmindMJonmind Posts: 7,290
    Well for an ironic switch on Nov 29th we had Jesus speaking MJ's words--from Front! "Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel." ;) <br /><br />Dontwalkaway,  yes it is interesting that the ‘Michael’ cover, ‘Dangerous’ cover, and two paintings of MJ all have one thing in common—the 2 cheribs holding a crown over Michael’s head. And that just happens to be the basic picture/function of the Ark of the Covenant.<br /><br /><br />Michael-Jackson-Michael-Album-Cover.jpeg<br />mjbasel1.jpg<br />album_Dangerous_8_1431667i.jpg<br />19840_222372549309_81333039309_2893727_2604112_n.jpg<br />Gee thanks BeTheChange and gwynned for your kind words!  I’m glad that every one of us can be free to get on our own soap boxes here, and also respectfully rebut other’s comments. We’ve all been on journeys to get here. <br /><br />I don’t know anything about the Hindu religion, so thanks for sharing that! Like languages-- religions and cultures have spread out over the globe throughout history, giving all the rich color, art, fashion, customs, stories, and beliefs. When we were isolated we each thought of the others as enemies and wrong, but now that we get to know each other in today’s world, we can see we are one blood and one family--just different.  <br /><br />Our history and world would not be the same without this—again God is behind it all.  Literature, music, art, movies!  God is so speaking through movies even from Hollywood—have you noticed the recurring messages?  We are creative because He is creative, and we are created in His image. He creates through us!  And I REALLY believe that atheists and deists need each other, to fill in the gaps of wrong thinking, just like a court of law needs prosecuting and defense lawyers.<br /><br /><br />Andrea, good idea really digging into that Miss Castaway movie—it probably deserves its own thread. Interesting that ‘perfect storm’ in court too.  Interesting the movie spoofs many movies, and I think maybe it draws attention to that there are messages being deliberately put into movies more and more.  By the way Men in Black 3 is coming out in summer 2012. The trailer looks good, and I wonder if there will be an Agent M in disguise on it?<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyaFEBI_L24
  • MJonmindMJonmind Posts: 7,290
    [size=small]Diggyon[/size]<br />[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)][size=small]If what you're saying is right, then I will go and do all kinds of sins, steal, kill and do follow the Illuminati evil plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought hell is mentioned in the bible!!! We have to follow God's words. If we don't we will go to hell. If we worship the devil, then at the end hell will expect us. Adam was thrown out of heaven because he followed the devil's words. So I go and worship the devil and still go to heaven? Do you want to convince me that those who want to kill humanity and want to eliminate the world population with their evil plans will at the end be awarded and will go to heaven?? If they do then this means that there is no devine justice at all and there is not even hope in God. What do we always say about God???? The real justice is not on earth. It's in God's hands and he will award those who follow his words.[/size][/color]
    <br />[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)][size=small]I suppose there are some motivated by fear of punishment.  I personally feel more motivated by love. Apostle Paul said he was the chief of sinners—and we thought that was Hitler[/size][/color][color=rgb(51, 51, 51)] :shock: [size=small]. But all it took for Paul to be converted was a bright light one night. MJ said he could have changed the heart of Hitler. Every person on earth is one snap of God’s fingers away from being a believer. [/size][/color]<br />[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)][/color]<br />[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)][size=small]Faith is a gift from God, pre-ordained from the foundation of the earth. Even Jesus said to love your enemies. The Bible is full of paradoxes. There are many good studies online explaining why hell is a mistranslation. Here's a thorough one: [/size][/color][size=small]http://www.heavendwellers.com/[/size][size=small]  Personally I believe God wanted mankind to believe in hell, because the concept certainly has created chaos. Also there is no redeeming quality to burning in hell with no chance of escape. About evil people--"There but for the grace of God, go I."  Still, evil people do need human restraint and just punishment for their crime on earth.  [/size][size=small]IMO[/size]<br />
    [size=small]Heb 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith". And Rom 12:3 says " ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” "[/size]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” Eph 2:8
     
  • diggyondiggyon Posts: 1,376
    on 1324727195:
    <br /> The Bible is full of paradoxes.
    '<br /><br />That's why I never take the bible alone as a reference. I can't live with paradoxes. You can never build any theory upon a reference full of paradoxes.<br /><br />
    Personally I believe God wanted mankind to believe in hell, because the concept certainly has created chaos. <br />
    <br /><br />Hmm.... can you please explain more? ? ? <br /><br />
    MJ said he could have changed the heart of Hitler.
    <br /><br />Well that's impossible because you just quoted:<br /><br />
    For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” Eph 2:8
    <br />
  • Sorry, but I don't know if you have already spoke about the 25th june 2009 with the Ark.<br />[ON WIKI]"On 25 June 2009, the patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia, Abune Paulos, <br />said he would announce to the world the next day the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, which he said..."<br />Is it important? Is there a symbol? I'm french and I don't understand all about this..<br />Please reply ;) !
  • yikes.... want to reply to so many things to put my opinion in, but is it really worth it. at the end of the day i am comfortable with what i believe in. in fact more than comfortable. completely satisfied with the answers... and i respect that others have the right to believe what they wish, so will refrain from posting rebuttles to some of the things mentioned....<br /><br />but would like to address just one thing that was mentioned. <br /><br />
    on 1324643182:
    <br /> In the end, I'm absolutely convinced the Bible promises that all will be saved, and that [size=14pt]not one person will burn in hell. [/size] All humans, whether "evil" bankers or church pastors are only doing as they have been guided to do in their role, given by God. <br />
    <br /><br /><br />this post (IMHO) is only half correct. true the bible does not mention hell, therefore it is a correct statement that no one will burn in hell. eternal hellfire is catholic doctine. so no, no one will go to hell. <br /><br />BUT this doesnt mean that all will be saved regardless of their deeds. the bible clearly indicates that evildoers will be cut off and that the only the righteous, who have good deeds, love for god and right heart condition will be saved and given everlasting life and an opportunity to live forever and be a subject of Gods righteous kingdom. those who practice evil and work against god, the bible indicates will be cut off.<br /><br />references to everlasting cutting off in the bible, do NOT refer to eternal or everlasting hellfire. it simply means permanent death with no opportunity of ressurection.<br /><br />again, this is my opinion based on my studies of the bible.<br /><br /><br />on another note, just want to say that judgement day is not one that should be feared if you are right hearted.... its not scary. its exciting and the end of evil and is just the beginning of reconciling the world / system / planet / people. i say bring it on! <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
  • AdiAdi Posts: 1,834
    Well on that note...... Merry Christmas to everyone.......or Happy Holidays!<br /><br />:)<br /><br />
  • We all have different opinions regarding religion, god, interpretation of the bible, science etc.  That's okay.  I think we all agree that there is good and evil in this world and we want to finally "beat" the evil.  We want to follow the "good", "the way of the universe",  "with nature and not against nature".    We all see that Michael is trying to fight the "evil", so it doesn't matter what religion you are or aren't.    <br /><br />So let's help him fight the evil.  That's what the soldiers of love are here to do !!!!!!!!!!  Who can help figure out how to get to know the real "ark" ?????<br /><br />MJonMind thanks for posting the paintings and illustrations.  Yes on every one there are angels or cherubs around or by a crown or  by his head.  On two of them one angel is black and one is white.  Maybe this is important.  And what about the white horse ?  There are also horses in the book of revelation.  And remember Paris' messages about unicorns ?<br /><br />Also, I have a copy of Michael Jackson's VISION , box of DVD's (videos).  It's all gold.  I keep thinking it looks like a brick of gold from the yellow brick road !!!!    Maybe it's just a coincidence but it does seem to fit doesn't it ?<br /><br />Love    Peace            mj_dance/<br /><br />
  • well if you can't say anything else about ts and front you have to agree that they inspire some pretty interesting conversations.  penguin/[move][size=18pt]happy holy days to all<br />[/size][/move]
  • on 1324519566:
    <br />MsTrinity,  Thankyou for all your videos and information.  You said for Christians the true ark is Jesus Christ.    I also read that the ark will surface during the end times.  So, if Jesus is the true ark then he is coming back at the end times.  This would be the second coming.  It seems that everyone is always looking back at what happened 2000 years ago with Jesus and not looking at the clues for the second coming.  It's not over.  History is continuing.      It's not that I don't want to know about what happened back then, but I'm trying to figure out what's going on now.  It said in Revelation that the christ will reign or have a kingdom on earth for 1000 years.  <br />      When Christians talk about the second coming of Jesus, I don't think they mean in the same exact body from 2000 years ago ?  It would have to be someone else born on earth, just like Jesus was born on earth.  It would be someone from the lineage of David just like Jesus was.  No one knows what that person would look like but I wouldn't think he would look like anyone in those Hollywood movies.  If this took place 2000 years ago in Egypt/Israel/Northern Africa area, I think that the people who lived there would be black.  That seems logical to me.    Think about Moses being adopted by egyptians and no one could tell.  Then the hebrews looked similar to the egyptians.    Well anyway, what that person looks like doesn't matter.    Only what he does for the world matters.  <br /><br />Besides knowing the true ark, what other information do you have about the second coming ?  I am just thinking that you have a lot of "stuff" and information.  I don't have much but I'm trying to learn. <br /><br />Love  ;))    8)        8)      :D        ::P      <br /><br />Wow... 5 pgs and I'm just know doing a quick reply and will catch up ASAP after Christmas. <br /><br />#1 You are correct; (I have studied this since I was saved @14) there will be a second coming and a 1000 yr Millenial Rein after. But it will be THE same Jesus born 2000 yrs ago in his glorified body. We will see him as he is. <br /><br />#2 I do have a lot of info on my YOUTUBE Channel the link should be below my avatar.  There's two playlists LOADED with info. One titled Spirituality, the other Chuck Missler. For the serious student he is the Ultimate teacher for all things End Time related. This man goes places with Hebrew, Greek, Science, Math & Physics I've never heard before! He will blow your mind. Right now he's on GodTv doing his "The Christmas Story" series. They will probably run it again. I highly recommend it. I have it in my lists too. Also books by Grant Jeffries (sp?), ummmm The Salem Kirban reference Bible for verse by verse study of Revelation is great too. Its old so I dont know if its still available. I wish GodTv would replay or make available their series 'Apocalypse And The End Times.' It's sooooo valuable in this day & time with all the top teachers discussing these subjects. Anyway I hope this helps and I will try and get caught up. Merry Christmas! <br />    <br /><br /><br />
  • on 1324753898:
    <br />
    on 1324519566:
    <br />MsTrinity,  Thankyou for all your videos and information.  You said for Christians the true ark is Jesus Christ.    I also read that the ark will surface during the end times.  So, if Jesus is the true ark then he is coming back at the end times.  This would be the second coming.  It seems that everyone is always looking back at what happened 2000 years ago with Jesus and not looking at the clues for the second coming.  It's not over.  History is continuing.      It's not that I don't want to know about what happened back then, but I'm trying to figure out what's going on now.  It said in Revelation that the christ will reign or have a kingdom on earth for 1000 years.  <br />      When Christians talk about the second coming of Jesus, I don't think they mean in the same exact body from 2000 years ago ?  It would have to be someone else born on earth, just like Jesus was born on earth.  It would be someone from the lineage of David just like Jesus was.  No one knows what that person would look like but I wouldn't think he would look like anyone in those Hollywood movies.  If this took place 2000 years ago in Egypt/Israel/Northern Africa area, I think that the people who lived there would be black.  That seems logical to me.    Think about Moses being adopted by egyptians and no one could tell.  Then the hebrews looked similar to the egyptians.    Well anyway, what that person looks like doesn't matter.    Only what he does for the world matters.  <br /><br />Besides knowing the true ark, what other information do you have about the second coming ?  I am just thinking that you have a lot of "stuff" and information.  I don't have much but I'm trying to learn. <br /><br />Love  ;))    8)        8)      :D        ::P      <br /><br />Wow... 5 pgs and I'm just know doing a quick reply and will catch up ASAP after Christmas. <br /><br />#1 You are correct; (I have studied this since I was saved @14) there will be a second coming and a 1000 yr Millenial Rein after. But it will be THE same Jesus born 2000 yrs ago in his glorified body. We will see him as he is. <br /><br />#2 I do have a lot of info on my YOUTUBE Channel the link should be below my avatar.  There's two playlists LOADED with info. One titled Spirituality, the other Chuck Missler. For the serious student he is the Ultimate teacher for all things End Time related. This man goes places with Hebrew, Greek, Science, Math & Physics I've never heard before! He will blow your mind. Right now he's on GodTv doing his "The Christmas Story" series. They will probably run it again. I highly recommend it. I have it in my lists too. Also books by [size=14pt]Grant Jeffries [/size] (sp?), ummmm The Salem Kirban reference Bible for verse by verse study of Revelation is great too. Its old so I dont know if its still available. I wish GodTv would replay or make available their series 'Apocalypse And The End Times.' It's sooooo valuable in this day & time with all the top teachers discussing these subjects. Anyway I hope this helps and I will try and get caught up. Merry Christmas! <br />    <br />practical teacher. <br /><br />
    <br />
  • MsTrinity333.  Thanks for the information.  You're the second person who said the christians believe it will be same exact Jesus from over 2000 years ago in his glorified body.  What is a glorified body ?  The problem is no one really knows what the Jesus from 200O years ago looks like, sounds like or acts like !!!!  To me it's the same thing as trying to find the true ark !!!  We have to figure out what to look for.    The only thing there is leaving an outline of what Jesus may have looked like is the shroud of turin.  We don't know if that is real either.  It may be a hoax to trick people to follow someone "evil". <br />Did anyone see the theory about Prince William having altered DNA or cloned to match the shroud of Turin ?  I think we were talking about it on the thread "Michael Jackson and Religious Symbolism",  several months ago.  <br /><br />Ms. Trinity333 I will listen/read your information.  Maybe that will help.  You always have great stuff !!!!!!<br /><br />Love, and Merry Christmas. 
  • on 1324508797:
    <br />At first glance, that gold box reminded me of Michael’s casket at the Staples Center.  The golden box that represented the certain death of Michael Jackson simply because it was there.  We are given to seeing it, and because it is tangible it is given as proof unseen that Michael Jackson is dead inside it.  However, seeing is believing and that casket was never opened.  We saw a box not the contents therein.  <br /><br />Maybe there is an irony relative to the casket in this direct.  It was a golden box, but what did it represent in the scheme of things?  The same could be said of the crypt with no name STILL.  People go there believing that Michael Jackson is there simply because minds are programmed to believe that there can’t be one without the other.  There was a casket, a service, an entombment.  But there was never any conclusive evidence that Michael Jackson was or is in or at either of them.<br />
    <br /><br />[size=24pt]Wow[/size] were you in my head thinking with me /bravo/<br />this is the first thing that came to my thoughts. I’m not good <br />Expressing my thoughts in writing.<br />THANK YOU<br /> :) :) :) :) :) :) :)<br />Hugs  Love You More<br />
  • GINAFELICIAGINAFELICIA Posts: 6,506
    wow, religious discussion. <br />There is no hell? I hope so, but Jesus says different if I remember it right.<br /><br />Bible was changed? I simply don't think so. Not based on evidence, I just don't believe it was changed.<br /><br />The imensity of this Universe BLOWS MY MIND every time I try to think about it.<br /><br />We are smaller than the smallest conceivable particle, what are we comparing to this huge Universe?!?!??! We are nothing, YET we are so damn important to SOMEONE UP THERE.<br /><br />And is this the only UNIVERSE? Or is just an appendix to a larger one?! We know nothing for sure, nothing at all.  Where a black hole leads, anybody knows? Is it a gate to another world, to another dimenstion or to another Universe? WHAT DO WE KNOW?<br /><br />I just have one thing to say: "He's got the whole world in His Hands". At least as long as the human mind can't comprehend infinite or reverse time or find an edge of the universe.<br /><br />
    <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
  • GINAFELICIAGINAFELICIA Posts: 6,506
    Anyway, I tend to believe the whole universe is an illusion, like the dream of the Creator, we live in his dream.<br />Well, I'm not sure, but sometimes I have this strong Matrix feeling as well. Like nothing is real, just an illusion.
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