<br />Ah, now we're getting to the nitty gritty - the fatal flaw in bec's theory!<br /><br />Sony are in business to make money, nothing wrong with that, it's what business is about, but they didn't need a death hoax to make money from/with MJ, they only needed a death.<br /><br />(This doesn't mean they, or anyone else, murdered him - I agree there's absolutely zero evidence for the murder theory)<br /><br />So, if MJ died as in the official story, Sony only had to release and re-release all things MJ to rake in the bucks .... which is what they have done. No need for the hassle and expense of some crazy hoax.<br /><br />Now, you could also apply that logic to MJ himself - if he needed to make money he only had 'to die' - he didn't need a crazy hoax.<br /><br />Which brings me back to 'reputation and loss of earning power'. If the hoax is not about financial gain, then does that lead to a conclusion that it is about reputation? I suppose not, as I'm jumping the gun a bit here - we haven't decided yet whose hoax it is. And is there even an intentional hoax, or just a random set of unusual circumstances that imaginative minds have tried to make sense of?<br /><br />One last thought: Sony could well be in this up to their necks if you consider MJ himself to be a part of Sony!<br />
<br /><br />Where's the fatal flaw? <br /><br />
on 1378725507:
<br />Just to clarify what I just said, because I wasn't clear myself when I wrote it! 'Sony is behind the hoax' and 'MJ is dead' are two separate things. If MJ is dead, there is no intentional hoax - just imagination and overactive minds feeding off each other with a hefty dose of manipulation thrown in for good measure. If Sony is behind an intentional hoax, MJ is right there at the helm leading them, therefore not dead.<br /><br />Clearer the first time? IDK! LOL!<br />
<br /><br />I'm unclear as to why you allege it has to be one or the other. Explain further?
Ok bec, I'll try again! The fatal flaw is that Sony didn't need a death hoax to make money, they only needed the death of a superstar.<br /><br /> If MJ died, and Sony wanted (understandably, they are a business) to cash in on that, they simply didn't need to go to the expense and hassle of engineering a hoax. A hoax would not, and has not made them money. MJ being a dead legend would and has. Elvis and others, made money post-humously not because a few people might have thought they were alive, but because they were dead stars. Sony, doubtlessly, knew from history, what happens to interest and sales when superstars die. They did not have to concoct anything as complicated as this death hoax to achieve this.<br /><br />Not only would they not need to kick off a hoax, they are first and foremost a business, so they simply would not spend money where they didn't need to. Basic business really. Could you stretch it and say they made a bad business decision - IDK, maybe.<br /><br />So that's why I say it has to be one or the other - Sony is quite possibly involved in the hoax if MJ didn't die, but if he did die there was no need for Sony to construct it.<br /><br />Does that help?
<br />I continue to be deeply convinced that Michael is alive and has organized and continues to direct the Hoax.. :icon_razz: but thanks bec for your post :bowdown: it's time to consider all the possibilities... :animal0017:<br />
<br /><br />Blankie, actually Bec is not agreeing with the idea that Sony could be behind the hoax that's the reason why she posted that paragraph to challenge us to think otherwise and so be able to agree all of us that the hoax is behind Michael or al least the most of it, please correct me if I am wrong Bec.
Hi everyone, good debate, but didn't Derek Clontz recently publish a book in which he admits responsibility for the launch of a possible Hoax within minutes of Michael dying, which would take the emphasis away from Sony introducing it as a death hoax. <br /><br />Personally I think Sony were seeing the $ signs on the back of the This is it tour following pre ticket sales and knew that his subsequent death was going to make even more money without introducing a death hoax.
Hi Bec I could debunk Sony's theory by naming some MJ set ups before death announcement:<br /><br />1- 1994 MJ plans to fake his death republished June 25, 2009 http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/9352/michael-jackson-faked-his-own-death/<br />Michael Jackson FAKED his death on June 25, 2009 and then on the "Michael" album, there's the Weekly World News for us all to see.<br /><br />2- 2008 Christmas surprise in New Mexico-MJ died of a drug overdose, which was just a hoax, but happens exactly 6 months later furthermore The Enquirer article about MJ has 6 months to live http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/old_mjhd/index_27.html<br /><br />3- This Is It when MJ played the character of a guy who faked his death in Gilda movie.<br /><br />4- Two days after the press conference, there was a story that MJ wanted all his unreleased music released after he died.<br /><br />5- The book mysterious death of Michael Jackson released June 24, 2009 on amazon.com and goodreads.com http://www.gaspjournal.com/2009/06/book-review-the-mysterious-death-of-michael-jackson-by-rob-simone.html<br /><br />6- MJ hiring back John Branca 8 days before death announcement.<br /><br />7- Surveillance cameras broken at Carolwood so we could not see who came in that night.<br /><br />8- Professional filming of TII for movie and AEG owns more movie theaters than anyone else in world.<br /><br />And more that I'll post when I have more time. <br />
I saw something on FB a few days ago (Thanks to Greet over at FB).<br /><br />I think this is a fitting topic to share it.<br /><br />
Something strange caught my eye in the recent book I bought and read : A life for Love".<br /><br />In it, (page 436) Violet Gaitan-Silva (former head of security at Neverland) says :<br /><br />"Just recently I watched the "TII" movie and watching how he included and treated people he worked with, reminded me of his generosity. ...<br />.. It became even more clearly at the end of the TII movie, in the credits : he gives thanks to certain people, including about ten people who worked for him at Neverland. I was one of those people. I found out about that only a year ago - I was just overcome, because it made me realize that THE CREDITS WERE PUBLISHED JUST WEEKS B E F O R E HIS DEATH.<br />For him to be that thoughtful, and caring to thank those people, he really must have been in a place where he was lucid and strong and caring - just the person I always knew he was."
<br /><br />Credits published weeks before death? TII was always meant to be a movie and has not been hastily put together from scenes from the rehearsals :icon_question: :icon_albino: :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />
In the same book page 445 Seth Rigs says :<br /><br />"Michael, my dear beloved friend, those of us who knew you will try to carry on in the best MJ manner. The only problem that we have is that we are not the supreme star and dance and singing genius that you STILL ARE SOMEWHERE. BUT WE WILL FIND YOU, MICHAEL- SOONER OR LATER"
Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :<br />1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...<br />2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 ---><br />3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony... <br /><br />That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory
<br />Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!<br /><br />We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.<br /><br />Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.<br /><br />Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:<br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br />Ah, but how would the deaders ever find out? First they would have to admit the existence of hoax. 4 years running now, the deaders still don't accept that there are any "clues" or "insiders" or "hints". Presumably this hoaxed death hoax could go on forever. In other words, deaders deny the very existence of hoax even this far in so Sony will be safe from accusations from now until forever. They have walked the perfect line: concoct an underground death hoax to romance one demographic while simultaneously championing the legacy of a late celebrity to romance the other. They're walking both sides of the fence and winning over both factions at the same time. Again, the mastermind behind it is a genius, it just isn't MJ, it's a marketing expert at Sony.<br /><br />As far as Paris, maybe this is why she tried to commit suicide. Recall how KJ at one point was pleading with the estate for more monthly support money. Sony came to the rescue, with a condition... participation in the hoaxed death hoax. And so Paris's role in the hoax was born. 3.5 years later, Paris has been wrapped up in the whole thing too deep, to the point she nearly believed it herself; that her Dad actually is alive and fooling the world. Paris is a child and her imagination and wishful thinking propelled her to get carried away with Sony's diabolical scheme. Unfortunately, reality came crashing down, and what she knows to be true all along finally caught up with her, and she hit rock bottom, requiring psychiatric care.<br />
<br /><br />I was operating under the assumption of an eventual bamsday in which the deaders would most certainly become aware of the existence of a death hoax! Of course if there isn't a bamsday, then yes, the hoax will most likely go on forever, if not for Sony then probably for us.<br /><br />There are so few of us that believe in and care about a possible hoax that I don't see why it would be worth it for Sony to keep perpetuating a hoax four years on for a niche demographic. Time is money and don't they have better things to do than to play games with such a small population? (Unless they've only given out a few "clues" and the rest was our snowballing imagination.)<br /><br />You make a good case about Paris. But if we accept your theory, and her father is really dead, wouldn't that be enough to keep her unhappy? Is a death hoax the only reason she could have attempted suicide? I don't pretend to know her well enough at all to say for sure.
<br />I continue to be deeply convinced that Michael is alive and has organized and continues to direct the Hoax.. :icon_razz: but thanks bec for your post :bowdown: it's time to consider all the possibilities... :animal0017:<br />
<br /><br />Blankie, actually Bec is not agreeing with the idea that Sony could be behind the hoax that's the reason why she posted that paragraph to challenge us to think otherwise and so be able to agree all of us that the hoax is behind Michael or al least the most of it, please correct me if I am wrong Bec.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks sweet :icon_razz: however I am always convinced that Michael is alive....very much alive :icon_lol: and behind all there is him...Only waiting for...<br />
<br />Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :<br />1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...<br />2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 ---><br />3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony... <br /><br />That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory <br />
<br /><br />You get the gold star for 1 n 2. I was getting worried here, people :icon_lol:<br /><br />However, #3 is a matter of opinion. After all, how much money is enough for Sony? Business doesn't strive to make enough money, they strive to make as much money as possible, so pulling profits from 1% of the population while also pulling profits from all the deaders with a conventional marketing campaing for a dead icon, sure, why not. Market diversity. Tapping into both markets (deaders and hoaxers) at the same time makes good business sense.<br /><br />As far as being risky, eh, the argument we used for MJ holds true, how is it risky when there's no legitimacy attributed to the theory? No one can prove the truth, and even if someone confesses, the notion is deemed ridiculous, they won't be believed. ~"Oh please, there is no hoax, hoaxers made it up, those aren't clues, they're figments of hoaxer's imaginations. Sony didn't plant anything, that's nonsense. How insulting to MJ's legacy, how insulting to Sony who has worked so hard to protect that legacy." Look at all of the legitimate Sony campaigns to celebrate his memory in a conventional, positive way. The way I see it, Sony would have very little to risk since they always have that "official" marketing campaign to show for themselves. If less then 1% of the population believe there is a hoax in the first place, who's going to believe the hoax was a hoax created by Sony??<br /><br /> :animal0017:<br />
:icon_albino: My counter-argument in blue:<br /><br />
on 1378748906:
<br />Hi Bec I could debunk Sony's theory by naming some MJ set ups before death announcement:<br /><br />1- 1994 MJ plans to fake his death republished June 25, 2009 http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/9352/michael-jackson-faked-his-own-death/<br />Michael Jackson FAKED his death on June 25, 2009 and then on the "Michael" album, there's the Weekly World News for us all to see.<br />2- 2008 Christmas surprise in New Mexico-MJ died of a drug overdose, which was just a hoax, but happens exactly 6 months later furthermore The Enquirer article about MJ has 6 months to live http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/old_mjhd/index_27.html<br /><br />WWW and etc tabloids are always predicting the death of this or that celebrity, always some psychic contribution or op-ed full of BS n nonsense gossip, and is certainly not a good source to prove anything. Besides, I wouldn't put it past WWW to fake this "archival" article after the event to sell more rags.<br /><br />3- This Is It when MJ played the character of a guy who faked his death in Gilda movie.<br /><br />Just a coincidence. MJ liked old gangster films and besides, SC has always had a 20's gangster theme to it. It could have been any movie where the protagonist played by MJ is hunted down by bad guys but gets away in the end. This is no different then previous skits acted out during SC performances.<br /><br />4- Two days after the press conference, there was a story that MJ wanted all his unreleased music released after he died. <br /><br />Rumor floated by Sony or plain BS made up by some reporter quoting some "unnamed source".<br /><br />5- The book mysterious death of Michael Jackson released June 24, 2009 on amazon.com and goodreads.com http://www.gaspjournal.com/2009/06/book-review-the-mysterious-death-of-michael-jackson-by-rob-simone.html<br /><br />Website typo.<br /><br />6- MJ hiring back John Branca 8 days before death announcement.<br /><br />Coincidence or due to the fact that MJ did indeed feel threatened and was taking steps to protect himself and his assets due to that threat, by hiring back a good lawyer that he trusted.<br /><br />7- Surveillance cameras broken at Carolwood so we could not see who came in that night. Were they broken? I thought LAPD only saved a few minutes of each one due to the remainder showing zero movement, and taped over or erased the rest. Some tape was saved and is dark/grainy, but it appears to show exactly what the official story tells, that MJ + entourage arrived home after rehearsal.<br /><br />8- Professional filming of TII for movie and AEG owns more movie theaters than anyone else in world.<br /><br />MJ wanted nothing but the best so that is nothing new and AEG also does a lot of live concerts.<br /><br />And more that I'll post when I have more time.<br />
<br />Thanks Bec for the brain teaser!<br /><br />We should ask ourselves: cui bono? Who benefits from this hoax? Is Michael worth more to Sony dead, or dead-then-again-maybe-alive-after-all? I would think Sony would invest more time and $ extolling the legacy of a truly-believed dead Michael Jackson (fallen hero and all that) as it would appeal equally to the fans who have been around since the beginning, as well as a new crop of younger fans who discovered MJ after 25/06/09.<br /><br />Add that to the fact that we as "believers" are few in numbers (right?) and ridiculed for our death hoax theories, whereas those deaders who call themselves "true MJ fans" would go apeshit on Sony if they ever discovered that Sony was fabricating a death hoax. Thus Sony would lose a large fan ba$e.<br /><br />Lastly, I know you are playing DA but I simply have to scoff at the idea that some of MJ's family would agree to be paid to support the hoax. I say some. Haven't a lot of people on here noticed a lot of clues coming from Paris? I really don't think she is paid for dropping clues intentionally. Unless it involves some kind of weekly allowance from her dad :icon_cool:<br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br />Ah, but how would the deaders ever find out? First they would have to admit the existence of hoax. 4 years running now, the deaders still don't accept that there are any "clues" or "insiders" or "hints". Presumably this hoaxed death hoax could go on forever. In other words, deaders deny the very existence of hoax even this far in so Sony will be safe from accusations from now until forever. They have walked the perfect line: concoct an underground death hoax to romance one demographic while simultaneously championing the legacy of a late celebrity to romance the other. They're walking both sides of the fence and winning over both factions at the same time. Again, the mastermind behind it is a genius, it just isn't MJ, it's a marketing expert at Sony.<br /><br />As far as Paris, maybe this is why she tried to commit suicide. Recall how KJ at one point was pleading with the estate for more monthly support money. Sony came to the rescue, with a condition... participation in the hoaxed death hoax. And so Paris's role in the hoax was born. 3.5 years later, Paris has been wrapped up in the whole thing too deep, to the point she nearly believed it herself; that her Dad actually is alive and fooling the world. Paris is a child and her imagination and wishful thinking propelled her to get carried away with Sony's diabolical scheme. Unfortunately, reality came crashing down, and what she knows to be true all along finally caught up with her, and she hit rock bottom, requiring psychiatric care.<br />
<br /><br />I was operating under the assumption of an eventual bamsday in which the deaders would most certainly become aware of the existence of a death hoax! Of course if there isn't a bamsday, then yes, the hoax will most likely go on forever, if not for Sony then probably for us.<br /><br />There are so few of us that believe in and care about a possible hoax that I don't see why it would be worth it for Sony to keep perpetuating a hoax four years on for a niche demographic. Time is money and don't they have better things to do than to play games with such a small population? (Unless they've only given out a few "clues" and the rest was our snowballing imagination.)<br /><br />You make a good case about Paris. But if we accept your theory, and her father is really dead, wouldn't that be enough to keep her unhappy? Is a death hoax the only reason she could have attempted suicide? I don't pretend to know her well enough at all to say for sure.<br />
<br /><br />Bamsday by definition IS MJ coming back and if the theory is correct, like the title says, Sony is behind the hoax and MJ is dead, so there will be no bamsday where anyone finds out anything.<br /><br />You're right though, time is money, and Sony would have to keep those gratuity checks coming to family members and some friends to keep the hoax going. But who knows, maybe it's worth it to them in some way we don't get understand. Hoaxers are a devoted lot, after all. But this is a good point IF it can be proven that there are still "clues" being dropped by people likely to be participating in a hoaxed hoax. (IS there still a hoax going on?)<br /><br />Regarding Paris: sure there's a thousand reasons. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
<br />Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :<br />1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...<br />2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? And it brings me to point no 3 ---><br />3) As some of you already pointed out - how a hoax illusion makes MJ's death more interesting and therefore makes Sony earn more money? There is only a small amount of ppl who take the "clues" and other odd stuff surrounding MJ's death as an indication that there's a hoax going on - 99% of humanity doesn't even care and those who care just find the weird behaviour of the family and/or the media etc ridiculous... Moreover - seeing those "clues" may actually make some ppl believe MJ was murdered etc (by Sony/AEG whoever) bcs of all those crazy reports about his health and mental condition... So a hoaxed hoax is rather risky and not rly necessary for Sony... <br /><br />That's all for now as I have little time now to go further into the theory <br />
<br /><br />You get the gold star for 1 n 2. I was getting worried here, people :icon_lol:<br /><br />However, #3 is a matter of opinion. After all, how much money is enough for Sony? Business doesn't strive to make enough money, they strive to make as much money as possible, so pulling profits from 1% of the population while also pulling profits from all the deaders with a conventional marketing campaing for a dead icon, sure, why not. Market diversity. Tapping into both markets (deaders and hoaxers) at the same time makes good business sense.<br /><br />As far as being risky, eh, the argument we used for MJ holds true, how is it risky when there's no legitimacy attributed to the theory? No one can prove the truth, and even if someone confesses, the notion is deemed ridiculous, they won't be believed. ~"Oh please, there is no hoax, hoaxers made it up, those aren't clues, they're figments of hoaxer's imaginations. Sony didn't plant anything, that's nonsense. How insulting to MJ's legacy, how insulting to Sony who has worked so hard to protect that legacy." [size=12pt]Look at all of the legitimate Sony campaigns to celebrate his memory[/size] in a conventional, positive way. The way I see it, Sony would have very little to risk since they always have that "official" marketing campaign to show for themselves. If less then 1% of the population believe there is a hoax in the first place, who's going to believe the hoax was a hoax created by Sony??<br /><br /> :animal0017:<br />
<br /><br />What is the meaning of the dot in make.believe? it's the place where imagination becomes real and you are invited.<br /><br />http://www.sony.net/united/makedotbelieve/<br /><br />Berlin, Germany, September 2, 2009 - Sony Corporation (Sony) today announced "make.believe"<br /><br /><br /><br />http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200909/09-100E/<br /><br />So this brand message was created after MJ's "death" and the question remains: will it last 4 years?
Oh i love this post. Finally one saying Sony may be part of it. <br /><br />what i think is even more "dark" but i guess business can be that dark.<br /><br />- You cannot fool Sony, it's too big to avoid them. You can only DEAL with them.<br /><br />- Death might be the most valuable event of such a music icon. It BRINGS MONEY<br /><br />So, i would like to apologize for saying so if i am wrong but i already said it before and apologized before : it came to my mind that MJ may not hoax his death to sell more discs, but he may have sold his death to Sony.<br />It would be the biggest music industry contract, including death, funeral, interviews, staged controversy, tribute movie (TII) post mortem albums, all fueling this "all in the box" project.<br /><br />I know it would sound pretty strange MJ would deal such stuff, but i feel he would.<br /><br />Sorry Michael, had to speak my mind.
I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.<br />If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.<br />Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.
<br />I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.<br />If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.<br />Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Marum what whatyourheartsays has posted does make sense and if I am right (whatyourheartsays correct me if I am wrong) she is saying that MJ might have sold the idea of the death hoax to Sony---> that doesn't imply Michel being "dead" quite the contrary although I see it a little bit far fetched and I honestly see Michael able to do it by his own.<br /><br />
<br />I can not even assimilate the idea that MJ is dead, if Sony lit the wick, and then it spread around the world, maybe, but all we've seen (I will not list, as did others) do not support Sony. Everything is in sight, no one invent anything, and judgment to C. M. for me is strong, Sony can not control or hire worldwide, UCLA, forensic doctors, judges, policemen, 911 ... even the family.<br />If MJ really is dead, and Bec theory is correct .... uttered no word, because it would be removed.<br />Do not think I'm blind or closed mind, to let my imagination simply do not accept the idea that the Jackson family is mostly ready to play for shit money.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Marum what whatyourheartsays has posted does make sense and if I am right (whatyourheartsays correct me if I am wrong) she is saying that MJ might have sold the idea of the death hoax to Sony---> that doesn't imply Michel being "dead" quite the contrary although I see it a little bit far fetched and I honestly see Michael able to do it by his own.<br />
<br /><br />if it is correct, but I think it is too much, remember that we talked about whether MJ, got help, even FBI? but I can be wrong of course ..<br />Sony accept the idea of collaborating with MJ, but the theory that Sony and family "benefit Hoax".
<br />Oh i love this post. Finally one saying Sony may be part of it. <br /><br />what i think is even more "dark" but i guess business can be that dark.<br /><br />- You cannot fool Sony, it's too big to avoid them. You can only DEAL with them.<br /><br />- Death might be the most valuable event of such a music icon. It BRINGS MONEY<br /><br />So, i would like to apologize for saying so if i am wrong but i already said it before and apologized before : it came to my mind that MJ may not hoax his death to sell more discs, but he may have sold his death to Sony.<br />It would be the biggest music industry contract, including death, funeral, interviews, staged controversy, tribute movie (TII) post mortem albums, all fueling this "all in the box" project.<br /><br />I know it would sound pretty strange MJ would deal such stuff, but i feel he would.<br /><br />Sorry Michael, had to speak my mind.<br />
<br /><br />I really liked your post @whatyourheartsays. This theory has merit, but the one thing it won't do or bring about is vindication for his tattered reputation since the chi-mo allegations. I've always thought that getting justice for the inhumanity of what he was falsely labelled would be very high on his 'to do' list. <br />And @Bec....great thread . It feels like we're back doing what our forum was made to do. Thanks.
<br />Let's point out some things that make this theory absurd :<br /><br />1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call, the weird behaviour of paramedics, the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop), the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the contradictions of doctors, Joseph instead of Joe etc etc - how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs those things are clearly prepared in advance...<br /><br />2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the witnesses? <br />
Leaving Sony aside for now (I've convinced myself they're not the hoax starters anyway), the real issue to be discussed is the 'MJ is Dead' part of bec's title. Like was said at <br />the start of this thread, back to basics.<br /><br />So, let me have a go (in red) at debunking Susie's points:<br /><br />1) the hoax is mainly based on what happened on june 25th and if MJ is rly dead and the whole hoax is <br />just Sony's idea then how can you explain the 911 call,<br />There were so many versions of the 911 call 'released', bits added, bits taken away, that it's impossible to know the content of the 'real' one.<br /><br /> the weird behaviour of paramedics,<br />What weird behaviour was that then?<br /><br />the ambulance photo (obviously photoshop),<br />Hmm, need longer to think about this one! But if we're trying to link Sony to all this, then surely they have all the footage/pics/expertise etc needed to hastily put this together.<br /><br />the odd helicopter transporting the body etc etc<br />Live footage, as a story unfolds, weird things happen!<br /><br />and then the hoax is also visible through the autopsy that makes no sense at all, the <br />contradictions of doctors,<br />An ethical attempt to give MJ some privacy, by not releasing or giving accurate reports.<br /><br />Joseph instead of Joe etc etc<br />A simple understandable mistake, people are usually given the long version of a name.<br /><br />- how could Sony arrange this without being directly involved in MJ's death? Bcs <br />those things are clearly prepared in advance...<br />The ambulance pic is the only thing on this list that needed to be produced quickly - I can't see that any needed to be prepared in advance of June 25th.<br /><br /><br />2) We all know the trials are also a part of the hoax (especially Murray's one) - is <br />Sony also behind it? Because the toys in the courtroom clearly indicate <br />that there's something odd going on... Will they go so far in the idea <br />of a hoax to actually set up a court case, pay the juges and the <br />witnesses? <br />Point is, we're claiming MJ has done these things. Can we honestly say no-one else could have or would have? Aren't we all painfully aware of court cases that have been a total 'set-up'?<br /><br />Disclaimer: Trying to look with a beginner's eyes and mind! I don't necessarily believe the arguments just outlined!
I'll debunk bec's theory with only one sentence because all these pros and contras give me a real head ache ! !<br /><br />A mother would never use her son's death to gain money! Never ever!! If MJ really died, then Mrs. K's grief would prevent her from participating in that hoax.<br /><br />Anyone in the family could do it, his own children can be manipulated, except his own mother! As she's been participating in the hoax and has also a role to play, then this means that her son lives! A mother is a blessing from God. No one would care for anyone except his own mother.<br /><br />End of story!<br /><br />
<br />Regarding Paris: sure there's a thousand reasons. I'm not sure what you're getting at.<br />
<br /><br />I just mean that I do not wish to make her attempted suicide fit in with our death hoax theories because I believe the two are completely unrelated. JMO.<br /><br />
on 1378797518:
<br />I'll debunk bec's theory with only one sentence because all these pros and contras give me a real head ache ! !<br /><br />A mother would never use her son's death to gain money! Never ever!! If MJ really died, then Mrs. K's grief would prevent her from participating in that hoax.<br /><br />Anyone in the family could do it, his own children can be manipulated, except his own mother! As she's been participating in the hoax and has also a role to play, then this means that her son lives! A mother is a blessing from God. No one would care for anyone except his own mother.<br /><br />End of story!<br /><br /> <br />
<br /><br />But if the trial is part of Sony's hoax, then wouldn't KJ be standing to gain from it, as she is asking for monetary restitution?
I understand that i'm most likely unwelcome here now :smiley-vault-misc-150:<br /><br />But I wanted to interject some thoughts. <br /><br />I believe the main thing Non-believers really find it hard to believe it's a hoax is because of all the legal things. <br /><br />1. The Coroner signing off on the death certificate<br />2. The amount of police that were there for crowd control the day of the memorial<br />3. The Autopsy report, signed to say it was true/declaration.<br />4. The documentation that's filed with the supreme court and the case number being on their website.<br />5. Conrad Murrays Licenses being found on the medical board websites<br />6. The swat team searching Murrays medical offices<br />7. Elissa Fleaks reports <br />8. The real Judge, Baliffs and court room<br />9. The legally filed appeals of Conrad Murray<br />10. The Katherine Jackson Vs Aeg legally filed documents. <br /><br />The list goes on. <br /><br />Who has the connections to gain this kind of cooperation? Either there is federal involvement or someone owes someone a favor, someone who knows people in those higher places that that organize it.<br /><br />Has background profiles been done on the 'players' that Michael Jackson was around/involved with before and on juen 2009? Their histories, who they know, where they worked? It might yeild some answers to the hows on the legal aspect of it. <br /><br />the strangeness of everything else leads to his alive, but the hurdle is How did they manage to pull up all the legal stop signs that ordinarily could not be done? <br /><br />Thanks for taking the time in reading.
Comments