Illuminati: Ill defined evil

son

What does the Illuminati stand for, what is their ultimate goal? I mean we can imply they're pushing for mind control of the masses but how do we know we don't already "agree" with their ends despite the fact that we disagree with their means? we presume the Illuminati is against what "we" believe but we all disagree on everything. Lady Gaga's "role" is perhaps the most interesting, is she pioneering for the Illuminati or creating awareness to be against it? Does her pro-LGBT message dictate her anti-Illuminati affiliation or pro? Is the Illuminati working with any religion (Christianity in particular) or against all of them? Why are "they" after Michael? Is the goal going to be something along the lines of brave new world (Conservative fear) or some sort of Utilitarian Fascist Dystopia (Liberal fear)? Is the atheistic perspective correct and that Religion will be the force to control people? Is Obama (and the previous presidents for that matter) working with them?<br /><br />Something to think about

paula-c

The best is to read and draw your own conclusions. These links are very interesting, start with the oldest items on the internet there are many blogs that talk about them<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />http://vigilantcitizen.com/<br /> <br /> <br />http://secretarcana.com/<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />http://www.goroadachi.com/etemenanki/

starchild

Hi, Son.<br /><br />Perhaps others have an opinion to offer in answer to these questions, but here’s mine.<br /> <br />

on 1313455384:

<br />What does the Illuminati stand for, what is their ultimate goal? I mean we can imply they're pushing for mind control of the masses but how do we know we don't already "agree" with their ends despite the fact that we disagree with their means? we presume the Illuminati is against what "we" believe but we all disagree on everything. Lady Gaga's "role" is perhaps the most interesting, is she pioneering for the Illuminati or creating awareness to be against it? Does her pro-LGBT message dictate her anti-Illuminati affiliation or pro? Is the Illuminati working with any religion (Christianity in particular) or against all of them? Why are "they" after Michael? Is the goal going to be something along the lines of brave new world (Conservative fear) or some sort of Utilitarian Fascist Dystopia (Liberal fear)? Is the atheistic perspective correct and that Religion will be the force to control people? Is Obama (and the previous presidents for that matter) working with them?<br /><br />Something to think about<br />

<br /> <br />While it would be nice to know the ultimate goal of the Illuminati or TPTB and what they stand for, the bottom line is that it doesn’t matter.  The key is to live above that level of consciousness.  I’ll explain.          <br /><br />I happen to be a Harry Potter fan, having read all the books and, with the exception of the latest, viewed all the movies.  Some of my extended family, on the other hand, will have nothing to do with anything Harry Potter, saying it is against their Christian beliefs (and undoubtedly, there are other Christians who beg to differ).  In fact, when the first Harry Potter book came out, these family members of mine, along with other Christians in the metropolitan area in which they live, participated in a major public protest against the book.          <br /><br />In the aforementioned situation with the Harry Potter book, “religion” is the motivating force or source of control.  However, that “force”—holding the idea that Harry Potter books are somehow “bad or of the devil” and the decision to participate in a consequent protest—is a personal choice.  The key is to recognize, through conscious attention, that the thought process (i.e., the opinion about the book) is a choice as opposed to being an inherent or natural belief.  This brings back the concept discussed so often within the MJDHI forum:  “Do you think for yourself?”  Thinking for oneself involves functioning from a completely different level of consciousness, one based on conscious attention as opposed to fear.          <br /><br />This conscious attention consists of attempting to be continually aware of why we think and behave the way we do down to the minutest level.  For example, again, you spoke about religion being a potential controlling force.  Oftentimes, we only believe in a particular religion as a result of where in the world we happened to have been born and the consequent culture we were taught.  In other words, “religion” is not inherent (i.e., it’s not something we’re born with; rather, it’s something we’re taught), and by the same token, also not inherent are the beliefs pushed on us by other types of external influences like the goals of the Illuminati!          <br /><br />(Now, just fyi, I happen to believe that we are all particles of God, that the kingdom of God is a personal one within us and, as such, that kingdom has nothing to do with anyone outside of personal Self and God.)            <br /><br />That’s my two cents.

curls

Brilliant answer Starchild!<br /><br />I believe that what counts is consciously paying attention to what WE feel and know deep in our hearts, what WE do in our everyday lives, how WE treat others, taking control and responsibility for OURSELVES and not always blaming others or expecting others to solve the troubles of the world. WE are the world - as a wise man once penned!<br />

son

on 1313480078:

<br />Hi, Son.<br /><br />Perhaps others have an opinion to offer in answer to these questions, but here’s mine.<br /> <br />While it would be nice to know the ultimate goal of the Illuminati or TPTB and what they stand for, the bottom line is that it doesn’t matter.  The key is to live above that level of consciousness.  I’ll explain.          <br /><br />I happen to be a Harry Potter fan, having read all the books and, with the exception of the latest, viewed all the movies.  Some of my extended family, on the other hand, will have nothing to do with anything Harry Potter, saying it is against their Christian beliefs (and undoubtedly, there are other Christians who beg to differ).  In fact, when the first Harry Potter book came out, these family members of mine, along with other Christians in the metropolitan area in which they live, participated in a major public protest against the book.          <br /><br />In the aforementioned situation with the Harry Potter book, “religion” is the motivating force or source of control.  However, that “force”—holding the idea that Harry Potter books are somehow “bad or of the devil” and the decision to participate in a consequent protest—is a personal choice.  The key is to recognize, through conscious attention, that the thought process (i.e., the opinion about the book) is a choice as opposed to being an inherent or natural belief.  This brings back the concept discussed so often within the MJDHI forum:  “Do you think for yourself?”  Thinking for oneself involves functioning from a completely different level of consciousness, one based on conscious attention as opposed to fear.          <br /><br />This conscious attention consists of attempting to be continually aware of why we think and behave the way we do down to the minutest level.  For example, again, you spoke about religion being a potential controlling force.  Oftentimes, we only believe in a particular religion as a result of where in the world we happened to have been born and the consequent culture we were taught.  In other words, “religion” is not inherent (i.e., it’s not something we’re born with; rather, it’s something we’re taught), and by the same token, also not inherent are the beliefs pushed on us by other types of external influences like the goals of the Illuminati!          <br /><br />(Now, just fyi, I happen to believe that we are all particles of God, that the kingdom of God is a personal one within us and, as such, that kingdom has nothing to do with anyone outside of personal Self and God.)            <br /><br />That’s my two cents.<br />

<br /><br />One could argue that your central premise of "think for yourself" is the same goal of the illuminati. They probably don't want to keep us on a leash, they want us to have mental autonomy and self-awareness. However they want us to form an opinion based on their "wisdom". I don't think any ideology (personal or otherwise) is exempt from being forced upon people, whether it's religious, non-theistic, or some state in between. <br />Now it seems that you're inclined to believe that the illuminati goal parallels to established religion. I've seen theories that connect the Illuminati to Ultra-Conservatives like Pat Robinson Right-Wing Christians and the GOP, esoteric ancient mysticism, Atheism, Islam, or more Liberal (non-religious) types like Hollywood and the Music industry. While the Illuminati can have multiple possible ideologies, these variations cannot coexist (well a few can but that's beside the point). Therein lies the rub.

starchild

Hi, Son.<br /><br />

on 1313501602:

<br />One could argue that your central premise of "think for yourself" is the same goal of the illuminati.

One could argue that, but it just brings the fundamental question being posed back around, and that is, where do “they” end and “you” begin?  The point I was trying to make is that only YOU can answer this question and to do so involves you thinking for yourself about yourself (apart from externals).<br /><br /><br />

on 1313501602:

<br />Now it seems that you're inclined to believe that the illuminati goal parallels to established religion.

NO, not at all.  I only mentioned religion as an example because you mentioned it in your questioning.  In this case, religion is used as one example to illustrate a much broader concept.<br /><br /><br />

on 1313501602:

<br />I don't think any ideology (personal or otherwise) is exempt from being forced upon people, whether it's religious, non-theistic, or some state in between.<br />

What DO you feel is exempt?  That’s the question on the table.<br /><br /><br />In general, it’s so easy to get wrapped up in mental gymnastics (i.e., attempting to battle things out in the arena of the mind).  Seemingly, the battle is between Self and others (externals), but actually, again, the only battle is with and within ourselves, and we are not our minds.  That said, WHO ARE YOU?  That’s the most important battle to be won.  IMHO.

son

<br />

One could argue that, but it just brings the fundamental question being posed back around, and that is, where do “they” end and “you” begin?  The point I was trying to make is that only YOU can answer this question and to do so involves you thinking for yourself about yourself (apart from externals).[/color]

<br /><br />Were basically on the same page here. However I would argue that when discussing an external oppositional force we already have some certainty about ourselves and what we believe. Therefore we presume the Illuminati is against what we are for.<br /><br />

What DO you feel is exempt?  That’s the question on the table.

Nothing is exempt. Personally I'm a fairly conservative Christian, ergo I'd be inclined to say the Illuminati was against what I believe (in some way shape or form). However, that may not be the case.

In general, it’s so easy to get wrapped up in mental gymnastics (i.e., attempting to battle things out in the arena of the mind).  Seemingly, the battle is between Self and others (externals), but actually, again, the only battle is with and within ourselves, and we are not our minds.  That said, WHO ARE YOU?  That’s the most important battle to be won.  IMHO.<br />

<br /><br />When discussing external forces we already have some indication of who we are. It's from this self-awareness that we paint the oppositional picture of the Illuminati.

Sarahli

The ultimate goal, in my opinion, is to make us forget our Creator. The Illuminati in this process are themselves being deceived as it may appear that their first goal is to make huge piles of cash whatever it takes (killing millions of people for example). But there is an invisible element into play and in my view if we were to try to know all about the Illuminati we would spend our time only doing this because the lies and deceptions are very deep. In my researches I always ended up finding something refuting the last "truth" I thought I had found, so I ended up back to point zero...the rabbit hole allegory fits well  albino/... I think the media is one of their main tool and the most efficient because throughout the decades it has literally shaped and molded people's thoughts and perceptions of what we call our reality. Now how do we go from there and try to sort out the good from the bad may be the question. I think that critical thinking has to applied as much as possible and as a believer in God I think it's very important to ask God to guide us in all this mess. A sincere heart will always receive answers from God no matter how long it takes. 

starchild

@ Son, Thanks for the lively discussion.  <br /><br />@ ; Sarahli, Good points: <br /><br />

on 1313515892:

<br />I think the media is one of their main tool and the most efficient because throughout the decades it has literally shaped and molded people's thoughts and perceptions of what we call our reality.

<br /><br />

on 1313515892:

A sincere heart will always receive answers from God no matter how long it takes.

  Agree.