Your feelings, thoughts and theories after 5 years

curls · July 2014

Ok guys, several of you seemed to like the idea of an open thread like this, to share and chew over whatever takes your fancy. Let's just keep it friendly and respectful and please bear in mind Souza's rules about who/what we can discuss. So ... I'll kick things off. Prompted by Do's comments I think we should be willing to view scenarios that may not sit easily with our own personal long held hoax beliefs. So, I'd like to discuss Murray. He has always been pivotal to my belief in the hoax. I could be pushed into going along with the idea that MJ ended up dependent on drugs and even that he'd resorted to anaesthesia to get some semblance of sleep. I could even accept a horrible accident while his doctor was nearby ... but this doctor - Dr Conrad Murray?? Dr Conrad Murray, who has a non-existent or at best sketchy past (I need to refresh my memory on this again). Conrad Murray who shares his name with an episode of 'The Court of Last Resort'. An apparently intelligent doctor who writes strange letters to patients, makes documentaries and videos for the world, speaks to tabloids, does interviews and sings on TV, yet doesn't speak up for himself in court. And he can walk around being photographed by NPG while we never hear of, or see, angry fans, or anyone for that matter, challenging him or even recognising him. A man who sounds like MJ (in what he talks about, not his voice!). I cannot believe this man is a doctor, hell ... I can barely believe he exists at all! That's the bottom line. So, the question I have to ask myself is, do all these things = death hoax, or is there another explanation for his 'strangeness'? Is it possible he's just a crazy doctor trying any way he can to cover his ass?

ShyBleuEyes · July 2014

Thank you Curls, Yeah Conrad sure is a very strange caracther,is it not said that MJ insisted Conrad to be his Doctor or am confused because of the triall Katherine vs AEG and it was AEG who just said that MJ wanted him? To make their story plausible?

mattie · July 2014

I have the same feelings about Murray. Can we try to find more about him,or did we already tried it all?

curls · July 2014

@Shy, yeah, and wasn't it also reported that MJ made a point of saying he trusted Murray with his life? @Mattie, I agree, I'd find it useful to do a bit more digging/refresh my memory. Wasn't there something about his car (?) being owned by his sister who owned a circus company? Or did I just dream that up?! Need sleep now, hope to find some time to delve a bit tomorrow.

blankie · July 2014

Sometimes I think that Murray is a metaphor, A CLUE of Michael about himself :a man who was wrongfully convicted ( Michael is alive, so Murray is innocent and Michael has always suffered for the injustice, the lies and the rumors about him) . But a man who has returned to being free ( and Michael finally now is so). :icon_rolleyes:

suspicious mind · July 2014

hummm murray is physically free yes but is still trapped by his circumstances . still struggling to prove his innocence so that he can go back to the thing that is his passion his way of being productive.

ShyBleuEyes · July 2014

I do believe you can find the info you were talking about to mattie in this following blog:

curls · July 2014

^^^ That's a great start Shy, thanks! And there are loads of threads here for me to check out: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/board,28.0.html

RK · July 2014

I came across this tonight and it lists legal troubles that our Dr Murray went through. I was thinking if we could check the court cases that this book listed, we may be able to at least establish if the Dr is a doctor. Murray had first come to the attention of Nevada authorities back in 2002, when a child support case out of California’s Santa Clara County that followed the doctor through three states finally caught up with him in Las Vegas. By spring 2009, when he received the call inviting him to work as Michael Jackson’s physician, Murray was under siege from a phalanx of creditors. Capital One bank had won a default judgment against Murray in October 2008, and in March 2009, HICA Education Loan Corporation was awarded a $71,332 judgment against the doctor for his failing to repay student loans that dated back to his days in Nashville. Separate lawsuits filed by Citicorp Vendor Finance and Popular Leasing USA had ended with judgments against Murray totaling $363,722, and the doctor was still facing court claims lodged in Las Vegas by Digirad Imaging Solutions and Siemans Financial Services that demanded another $366,541 for unpaid debts

curls · July 2014

I've spent far too long reading/watching stuff about Murray today! Wondering how, and if, I go about checking the validity or otherwise of the investigation done years ago regarding his alternative background/name/if he's a doctor etc, without becoming obsessed (again!)! Or is it simple and I need go no further than this article for the truth about his background: /> The debts you mentioned RK, are included in this article.

Do · July 2014

This is an excerpt from /> Early Life and Medical Training Conrad Robert Murray was born on February 19, 1953, in St. Andrews, Grenada. The man who would become embroiled in the controversy surrounding the death of the "King of Pop" in June 2009 did not come from money. With his mother Milta spending most of her time in Trinidad and Tobago in search of better paying work, Murray lived with his maternal grandparents, two Grenadian farmers. His fractured family life was compounded by the total absence of his father, Rawle Andrews, a Houston area physician who, up until his death in 2001, focused his career on offering medical services to the poor. Conrad didn't meet his dad until he was 25. At the age of seven, Murray relocated to Trinidad and Tobago to live with his mother, where he became a citizen and finished high school. Like Milta, Murray was determined to make a better life for himself, demonstrating at an early age a propensity to work hard. After high school he volunteered as an elementary school teacher in Trinidad, an experience he followed with work as a customs clerk and an insurance underwriter in order to pay for his college education. Murray also wasn't afraid to take advantage of an opportunity. At the age of 19 he bought his first house, then later sold it for a decent profit to support his university tuition in the United States. In 1980, two years after first visiting Houston and getting a chance to introduce himself to his father, Conrad Murray returned to Texas to enroll at Texas Southern University, where in just three years he graduated magna cum laude with a degree in pre-medicine and biological sciences. From there, Murray followed in his father's footsteps and attended the primarily African-American Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. Upon graduating Maharre, Murray enrolled for additional training at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and then completed his residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. Other training stints followed; he studied at the University of Arizona on a Cardiology Fellowship, and landed back in California, where he eventually worked as the associate director for the interventional cardiology fellowship-training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital in San Diego. Practicing Medicine in Las Vegas  In 1999, Dr. Murray left California for a second time and struck out on his own, opening up a private practice in Las Vegas. Locating his office just east of the strip, Murray—again taking a cue from his father—aimed to serve not just the city's wealthy, but its underserved as well. In 2006, Murray expanded his scope and returned to the city where his father had made a name for himself to open the Acres Homes Heart and Vascular Institute. "We have been so lucky to have Dr. Murray and that clinic in this community," Houston patient Ruby Mosley told People magazine. "There are many, many patients that thank God this man was here for them." Those who've had financial dealings with the doctor, however, might feel otherwise. Unpaid debts, lawsuits, and tax liens have followed Dr. Murray's life. More than $400,000 in court judgments alone were issued against his Las Vegas practice, and in December 2008 Dr. Murray, who has an unknown number of children, was ordered to cough up $3,700 in unpaid child support. (Again the debt issues)

Do · July 2014

Could this be true, would she say something like that? (published 26th November 2013) /> [size=12pt]Michael Jackson's ex-wife predicts Conrad Murray will be shot dead in 18 months[/size] [size=14pt]MICHAEL Jackson’s ex-wife Debbie Rowe urged his fans to kill death doctor Conrad Murray, saying: “I’d buy the bullet".[/size] She lashed out after the disgraced medic questioned Jacko’s relationship with her in a recent interview. Murray, who was jailed for involuntary silence after he was released from prison last month. He said: “Michael told me he never slept with Debbie Rowe. We joked that neither of us would want to have sex with her.” But Rowe, mum of two of Jackson’s children, hit back yesterday and told aUS website Murray would be dead in 18 months. She fumed: “A Jackson fan will shoot him dead, and I’d buy the bullet. I wouldn’t shoot him but I’d buy the bullet.” Debbie even said she would buy a “hollow-point” expanding shell to make his death more painful. Responding to his sex slur, she added: “If I had a dog as ugly as him I’d shave its ass, make it walk backwards and put a wig on it. “It takes two to f*** and there’s not enough alcohol in the world.” Murray, 60, has also insisted Jackson killed himself by overdosing on a private stash of drugs. But Rowe dismissed those claims, saying: “It’s so disgusting, he’s trashing the dead. The jury sure didn’t buy his story.” The former nurse, 54, met the King of Pop at a skin treatment centre and they married in 1996.

curls · July 2014

LOL, well let's see what May 2015 brings shall we?!! I remember reading this at the time, but bear in mind the Daily Star is pure tabloid rubbish. I'm glad you're posting here Do. With your leanings towards MJ being dead, I'm interested in how you view Murray.

ShyBleuEyes · July 2014

yes it's tabloid trash, but somehow i could see Debbie talking like that, she has a big mouth, for what i saw from her she always protected MJ.

Do · July 2014

Well Curls, I have to admit that man is a true mystery to me! I can't remember for the life of me seeing any murderer getting so much attention and airtime (and hate) as Murray. Indeed strange that he seems never to get attacked by angry fans, yet he is totally all over the place. Is it possible that he is part of an alternate hoax (I mean that he is 'contracted' to play his part in the 'Michael-hoax', after letting Michael die by accident or on purpose? And so is he perhaps working for the 'enemy'?). Again, I don't have a clue! @Shy, LOL, I am totally seeing Debbie speaking like that. I can't remember reading it before, and ofcourse we don't know if she ever said it. But it sounded like her!

trublu · July 2014

The pessimist in me thinks that possibly the many clues we've received come from the estate in order to create mystery around MJ much like Elvis as a marketing ploy. Not that I feel it was needed. MJ is a legend in any case. The most famous person in the world. I also think that IF he has not faked his death then he must have been murdered. I really hope that this is not true. We have no proof of anything, dead, alive, hoax, murder.

Thriller4ever · July 2014

Wasn't there another Murray, a middle-aged white man, who sat in the People vs. Conrad Murray trial...around that time there were pictures saying the white man is the real Murray.

bec · July 2014

I think MJ is alive, faked his death, and this is his legacy. A weirdo death to go with his weirdo life. I think the questions about his "death" and the "clues" that came after were just part of the show. It's his Elvis impersonation and having made the whole world aware of his mantra of obsessively always striving to be the best--keeps us all hanging indefinitely, waiting for him to top Elvis. But maybe he really doesn't care as much as we think/thought. MJ is smart , and everyone knows as soon as someone dies they instantly transcend their earthly misdeeds.. or perceived misdeeds. He knew death was the only sure way he could revive his brand so his kids could have some sort of cushy life, because lord knows they were all going no where in 2009 pre-D day. With two strikes against them and having to forever bear that name, something had to be done and desperate times call for desperate measures and I think MJ was pretty desperate. His brand was in the gutter with seeming no hope of resurrection. Except for death, and he knew that, because everyone knows that. It's unspoken truth. As soon as some celebrity dies they get honored and their brand value increases, just automatically. So it's what he had to do, for his kids, for his mother, for himself. So sure, he could have died normally, but when does MJ do anything normal? He didn't have a normal life, and it was all orchestrated and choreographed by himself post-1980 or so... so it stands to reason, just common sense here, that his death should follow suit. Forget Murray, he's just a distraction. An actor, a player, a character. He probably did actually go to jail. What's 2 years for a couple mil? Who wouldn't do that? In my opinion, none of it matters, it's all just a show. Enjoy the gifts MJ left us, he's done. Well, done with his public "life" anyway. That's why everything has his stink all over it, because he IS in control, like he always was, but I no longer think this has any big meaning or will culminate in any big Bamsday event. It just is. Entertainment. I was entertained so I'm happy. I hope he is too, and I hope it all worked out the way he expected, but I doubt he cares because his "estate" has made a killing and that's all that mattered in the end. That was the goal, I believe, so mission accomplished.

curls · July 2014

Good to hear from you bec, but how can I forget Murray when, as Suspicious said:

hummm murray is physically free yes but is still trapped by his circumstances . still struggling to prove his innocence so that he can go back to the thing that is his passion his way of being productive.

Everyone else that had to be involved in MJ's 'death' are free to get on with their lives, but Murray's loose ends aren't tied up yet. Regardless of whether he is a real person or merely a 'character', his story is not over. It's no coincidence, IMO, that Suspicious' comment also relates totally to MJ after 2005.

blankie · July 2014

@bec<;br /> Totally agree with you, your words are my thought. And i'm more and more convinced that Murray - is only a clue of Michael : a man who, after injustice has regained his freedom. And , as always, I'm waiting for.. :moonwalk_:

marumjj · July 2014

Hi all, I read all the thoughts, and I agree that Conrad Murray is the main actor in this hoax. We believe that MJ is alive, this makes CM is innocent. However, with MJ dead or alive, Murray should insist his innocence, after all have to get on with life and work. My intuition tells me that CM is a scapegoat who? do not know, but it is unthinkable that a cardiologist doctor do not know CPR. I think it's normal not to know the life of CM before the King of Pop, but from 2009 until it makes me angry to see this man always immutable in photos and interviews. I just hope that someday we can know what really happened, we currently are seeing that the media are echoing the hoax, because it suits them or believe? MJ faked his death, and this is no longer a secret.

ShyBleuEyes · July 2014

on 1406263626:

 Wasn't there another Murray, a middle-aged white man, who sat in the People vs. Conrad Murray trial...around that time there were pictures saying the white man is the real Murray.

Yes, i do remember that , i remember i searched him at google he came up right away, strange ,...i can't find him anymore.

bec · July 2014

Because it was just a misquoted pic. Murray is MJ, he represents MJ. That's it. I don't think there's anything else there.

ShyBleuEyes · July 2014

OK,...but still isn't it strange that , several years ago he came up at google and now he don't? It's quite hard to erase pictures from the internet?

RK · July 2014

'White' Murray turned out to be a member of the defense team named Matt Alford. He was seated behind them at the trial.

blankie · July 2014

on 1406351243:

 Because it was just a misquoted pic. Murray is MJ, he represents MJ. That's it. I don't think there's anything else there.

:th_bravo: ;D

Your feelings, thoughts and theories after 5 years

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