TIAI October 31
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Luke 16:26-31 (King James Version)
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Luke 16:26-31 (King James Version)
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Comments
I honestly take these too many religious connections too much.....Don't get me wrong. But I personally think that when someone is religious in an extreme way it's not a good thing. I don't like it. Maybe I should get what? the message, yes, but always from the Bible?
I am not religious, and for me these things are not very...
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Luke 16:26-31 (GOD’S WORD Translation)
26Besides, a wide area separates us. People couldn’t cross it in either direction even if they wanted to.’
27“The rich man responded, ‘Then I ask you, Father, to send Lazarus back to my father’s home.
28I have five brothers. He can warn them so that they won’t end up in this place of torture.’
29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses’ Teachings and the Prophets. Your brothers should listen to them!’
30“The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! If someone comes back to them from the dead, they will turn to God and change the way they think and act.’
31“Abraham answered him, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses’ Teachings and the Prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone comes back to life.’ ”
Its all for L.O.V.E xoxo
...sad, but I think it's true...
To tell you why I really don't like people who base their lives on religion; my elder sister lives with her fiancee and he is very very extremelly religious,he doesn't do anything that Bible forbids, in the sense that he thinks to God's words everytime he does something or has to make a choice, or on religious holidays or religious days (there are a lot) he doesn't even hold her hand, he doesn't even kiss her cheek because that would mean a 'sin' in his concept.These are just very few things and when I see this all the time around me, that's why when I see people soo religious that base their life facts on quotes from Bible I refrain, it's insanity.
I do hope TS is not a 'religion dragger' to make some kind of brainwash using the Bible because people will believe the Bible as there are far many religious people than non-religious.Don't get me wrong,but I have all the rights to be thrilled at this when I see what I see with my brother-in-law alost everyday. I know that TS addressed this issue as I've read all his updates, but even so, I cannot base my life's path on the Bible.
I must say that I am really watching TS and read all his updates far more than once. But the too many religious things keep me away somehow...
Help me out, but is that saying that even if MJ comes back, things won't change/people wont believe like I said in this thread yesterday?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
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Sorry if I'm wrong...
I keep thinking back to last year, do you remember the story about the rocket which was launched and NASA didnt know who financed it, it was carrying communication equipment, didnt Michael have investments in companys involved in electronic equipment <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I cant find the link though I have searched, this was on the old MJHD I think. I always believed that when he comes back it will be globally at the same time via communications link, I am sure there will be suficient evidence to prove it to be genuine.
I will add link if I can find it. <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
The man in hell begs that God send someone to warn his family... to warn them of their ways so that they will not end up in hell like him. He believes that if God would resurrect someone from the dead to send this message that his family would surely listen.
But the point is made that if they are not willing to listen to those who prophesized about this, those who have already warned them of their ways, then they will not listen to one who has risen from the dead either.
Many thoughts run through my head on this one...
Is TS likening himself to a prophet in a sense, telling us about the end of the world, redirecting us to the Bible, etc. and we are not listening and according to this, we wouldn't listen even if MJ himself came back from the "dead" and told us the same thing?
Is MJ likening himself to a prophet and has been telling us things through his songs and we have not been listening and we still would not listen even if this is all proven to be a hoax?
Has MJ truly been enlightened to something and made very aware of the spiritual battle going on and where we are unknowingly heading and had "died" and we are like the family and he is wanting to comeback to tell us but doesn't know if we would even listen if someone was to comeback from the "dead" to tell us?
Is the comeback not even MJ but maybe Elvis coming back to warn us?
Ok I CLEARLY NEED SLEEP! Help me out guys.... I need your rational thoughts here! <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I think that what I get from it is:
-People are separated and not united. Probably the space between believers and non-believers.And we cannot cross that space that separate us even if we want to probably because there are 2 completely different mentalities here? that each side holds strongly on their convictions.
-people then ask for Michael to come back and expose it all for everyone to see, in order to make these 2 sides get together for one single goal
-probably the thing with 5 brothers means literarily his 5 brothers who are here to lead us as to not fall into the abyss of the unknown. But I can't say that the brothers do actually lead us but even make us separate from one another. One one side there's randy who mainly supports the non-believers ideas and on the other side we have some clues from Jermaine or even jackie. Here I simply don't know how to take it...
-those Moses could be here TS and probably others we don't know yet who actually lead us in the right directions, people we should take into considerations. I still don't know who else could be besides TS.
-here I understand that if Michael comes back, then and only then people will listen and understand. That we cannot do it alone. We've actally discussed this recently, that the non-believers will mobilize probably only when Michael will come back. Only then. Because our efforts to make some people at least questioning the situation has fallen on deaf ears.
-here it's probably an allusion that if we do not listen to those Moses (TS) then we won't listen even if Michael comes back.And if these messages are not understood now, said by those 'prophets' (TS) then they won't be understood even if Michael comes back. Here I don't like it that much if this is how this quote should be interpreted, because it's like it pushes it on us, to listen to TS, because if we don't, then even if Michael comes back people won't get it. It's not really like that. I do not follow anybody as if he/she is God, so this kind of pushing into us is somehow forceful. I DO understand Michael's message, of course I cannot know everything he has in his mind for it.....but that doesn't mean I have to follow anybody as if it was a higher power (TS). I am sorry if this is how it should be taken... For example I do not agree with the end of the world. I do not. That would mean that if i do not believe it literarily it's not worth for Michael to come back because I do not agree with TS's theory?I don't think so.
I am waiting for other opinions on this too.
"What more can I give" Will anything change even when I come back from the dead??
We need to take care of the planet by ourselves...it starts with US..
Change your mind....Change the World
MJ coming back from the dead, will shock the world, and I'm sure many will be listening to what he will say on his return......maybe the suggestion here is...we need to open our hearts and minds, now, and not wait for the return. This is a video my sister sent me. She is a practising Buddhist. I was raised a catholic, but have never read the bible...
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[youtube:jaumqi92]
The bible is not about religion it is about relationship with God the father and God the Son Jesus. The bible give us instruction and direction, and man made religion has diluted that because people don’t understand Christ and what he came to do.
Christianity means to be Christ like, just as Michael said he lives to be like. People always confuse and make Christianity a religion, it is not. Michael seems to me a modern day John who came to prepare the way for Jesus to come.
Michael has worked over the years to turn people to the Love of Jesus, to love one another and be pure and innocent as children. Jesus welcomes every race and religion to have relationship with God the father. It is really simple and he gave us two commandments instead of 10, to love God and love one another, even as he loves and forgives us.
What TS seem to be pointing out is that we need to hear the messenger that he has sent to us, Like Abraham and Moses in the bible because if we don’t hear him we would not even hear someone coming back from the dead. God sends someone major in every period of time to show light to the world.
Moses was one, John was one and since bible days there have been many other in different generations. I feel Michael is for this generation. Not a religious Icon but a spiritual teacher that teaches by example. That is the reason Michael was so very persecuted. He stands for what he believes in.
I think the media as a whole has been diluting the TRUTH for many years so as not to freak-out the masses....but if we look at it all in the "piece by piece" arena, it does all make sense.
My two kids and husband are now all subjected to my regular rantings, and i think i'm making better and more AWARE citizens by doing so.
So I have absolutely NO regrets in doing so..
L.O.V.E to you all x x
Lucky for you Jenwren....I rant on to my 7 yo son <!-- s
I mentioned the illuminati to my sister and she had no idea who they are. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
I don't have a job and don't have money (just debts) , and because of that, I am able to appreciate the simple things in life...that's what the meaning of life should be.
Take care of your neighbour, and love one another as God has loved you!!
TS re-direct is a sub-section of one of the "parable" Jesus used when Teaching his Gospel.
Without attempting to interpret the Bible, I see 1 main message in the highlighted text:
The importance of Faith
Unless we believe in the message given to us by those who have proven to be reliable messenger - And TS would fall in this category, he may also be referring to "others" who are here with us on this forum - then we are unlikely to listen or believe in MJ message at all or discover the TRUTH and MJ coming back to tell us his message himself would not change this!
In other words, once somebody has proven to be a TRUSTED informer, we need to have FAITH in their message because they are here to GUIDE US through.
I would also like to add that I was re-reading MJ Beautiful Oxford speech yesterday and there are numerous references to God and the Bible that are totally supporting what TS has been telling us.
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=108
It is undeniable that Michael enjoyed giving his message of Love and saw himself as a or "the" "Teacher".
With L.O.V.E
Hi Anna! I totally can understand and somewhat relate to how you feel. Actually, I used to be a strict Christian but have stepped away from that to study other religions and just learn about it all before I make up my mind. But, either way, I've always viewed the bible as a sort of piece of art. It's hard to explain, but I think there are stories in it that may or may not be true (probably aren't) but the moral of the story remains regardless. I think that the bible is important in this hoax for many reasons, but I know it's NOT to convert everyone to the christian religion. Mike said himself that he studies all religions, but he also reads the bible. Just like all good pieces of literature, the bible can be very inspiring and I think that is what purpose it is serving regarding this hoax. If Mike has been inspired by the bible, then we must respect that. Doesn't mean we have to "believe" in the bible or believe in Jesus or anything like that. We just simply need to respect it. Also, the bible is full of very interesting and entertaining stories for those who simply like to read. And I don't think it should be left out of the quote "just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel", because I believe if there is a gospel, it's been editing beyond recognition and we must explore and study other avenues to find the entire truth. Just my opinon. Hang in there and take the bible references with a grain of salt and open mind, you might be surprised with what you discover. Much love to you, Anna!
is it not possible that there are some who follow ts but still do not really understand his message ?
is it not possible that there are some who do not claim to follow him /them but still understand the message?
perhaps only ts himself can answer this.
I do not know, I'm confused <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
ts
have you forgotten about thomas?
@_Anna_ I am not a religious person either, but I do believe there is more between heaven and earth. TS is providing us with information that is already on the net. When he redirects to a Bible scripture, it is because it contains the information he wants to let us see. Also don't forget that Mike is a religious man and is very familiar with the Bible and apparently he wants us to read these scriptures and think about it. You don't have to be a religious person to understand a Bible scripture and translate it to the world we live in now.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Let us have a hearing heart
Let us listen to His Word
Let us keep inside what He speaks to us
And be cleansed by what we've heard
Love and blessings to all.
Some people will just not believe Michael when he comes back. If they don't believe TS they will not be persuaded by Michael even if "back from the dead". Finally we must be prepared as to not be able to convince all the people. The only important thing as I see it is to let the message out. To spread the word and let people decide. Only my opinion of course. God bless you all. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
And yes, after reading several sites that all suggest similar things, I have copied and pasted from this one because it is already explained and is easier than me rewriting it in my own words and then linking to the page anyway.
The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)
Profile of the Rich Man (16:19-20)
First, Jesus paints a quick portrait of the rich man, a very, very rich man. Purple dye was extremely expensive, obtained from the shellfish murex. A purple wool mantle was costly. A finely-woven linen tunic was considered the height of luxury. The phrase in the NIV translated "lived in luxury" comes from two words, the Greek verb euphraino, "be glad, enjoy oneself, rejoice, celebrate," and the adverb lampros, "splendidly, sumptuously." Jesus mentions the gate to the rich man's mansion, Greek pulon, " 'gateway, entrance, gate,' especially of the large, impressive gateways at the entrance of temples and places." The rich man doesn't need to work so he feasts like this every day. Jesus pictures a rich man living opulently. The rich man is not named, though he is sometimes called Dives, the Latin word for "rich man."
Profile of the Poor Man (16:20-21)
Jesus contrasts the rich man with a beggar, the poorest of the poor. The beggar's name is Lazarus, the only character in any of Jesus' parables who is given a name. Lazarus is short for Eleazar, which means "He (whom) God helps," perhaps hinting at the man's piety. He is lying at a suitable place for begging, next to the rich man's gate, probably placed there by friends. He is sick, as evidenced by his numerous ulcerated sores. And he is hungry, longing to eat the scraps from the rich man's table, usually reserved for the dogs. Jeremias informs us, "We are not to think of 'that which fell from the rich man's table' as 'crumbs,' but as pieces of bread which the guests dipped in the dish, wiped their hands with, and then threw under the table."
The dogs that lick his sores are not pets. In the First Century Middle East, dogs are considered unclean, wild street dogs that scavenge the garbage, and then nose around the poor man's sores. It is not a picture of comfort but of abject misery.
Abraham's Bosom (16:22)
Jesus pictures angels carrying Lazarus to Abraham. NIV "side" and KJV "bosom" is Greek kolpos, "bosom, breast, chest." The ancient banqueting practice of recling at the table would have one's head on someone's breast. So this puts Lazarus in the place of honor at the right hand of Abraham at the banquet in the next world. The poor man's fortunes are reversed.
The Rich Man in Torment (16:23-24)
The rich man, too, experiences a reversal.
He is in "hell." The Greek word used here is Hades, the place of the dead, and in Jewish thought, the intermediate place of the dead prior to the final judgment. Though Greek gehenna is usually used to refer to the place of final punishment, in Jewish literature torment can be a feature of the intermediate state as well as of the final state of the wicked.
He is in torment, Greek basanos, "severe pain occasioned by punitive torture, 'torture, torment.' " He is parched with thirst, his tongue is hot and dry, and he is suffering. The Greek verb used here is odunao, "to undergo physical torment, 'suffer pain.' " The source of the suffering is fire.
The rich man asks Abraham to order Lazarus to relieve his suffering (16:24), and later to send a message to his brothers (16:27). He still views Lazarus as a slave who can be ordered around at his whim.
A Great Chasm (16:25-26)
Abraham explains the situation and describes a great, impassable chasm (Greek chasma) that prevents anyone from passing from either side to the other. In other words, there is no hope of moving from torment to the blessings of Abraham's bosom, or of Lazarus helping the rich man. The die has been cast; the outcome is irreversible.
God's Word Is Sufficient Warning (16:27-31)
Jesus concludes the parable in a curious way. The rich man wants Lazarus to warn his brothers of the dangers of hell. But Abraham says that if they won't heed the truth that they have -- Moses and the Prophets (i.e., the Old Testament revelation), then they wouldn't believe even if someone rises from the dead. In the context, the rich man proposes that Lazarus rise from the dead to warn his brothers. But Luke's readers will immediately think of Jesus, and how even his manifest resurrection was not enough to sway the Pharisees from their hardened opposition to the truth that was clearly before them.
As Marshall puts it, "The rich man knows from personal experience that his family do not take seriously what the law and the prophets say. Something more is needed."
What's the Point?
Of course, Jesus is saying that riches don't count for anything after we die, but that isn't the thrust of this parable. I think he is making two points.
1. Wealth without active mercy for the poor is great wickedness.
2. If we close our eyes to the truth we are given, then we are doomed.
In the context, Jesus is condemning the Pharisees for their love of money but lack of mercy for the poor. Remember his comment about their scrupulous tithing? "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone" (Luke 11:42). It isn't their piety that he is condemning, but what they AREN'T doing -- showing mercy to the poor, seeking justice for the downtrodden. It is ironic that the Pharisees who prided themselves on being such Bible scholars largely missed the spirit of the Old Testament -- mercy and justice.
http://www.jesuswalk.com/lessons/16_19-31.htm
I am just afraid to not be cought in a tempest of religious things that lose the touch with reality. We cannot live life by quotes from the Bible, we must keep connection to reality. Because the highest you fly the smalles you'll seem to the ones who don't fly. I have an open mind and I take these quotes literarily as literature quotes that fit as if I quoted Friedrich Nietzsche. Not in a religious way. Although I tottaly respect his beliefs and all religions.