<br /><br /><br />As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything. For those who did not forget “NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS”—and therefore they are still here—it is time for level 5! typing/ <br /><br />While level 4 was the most important, this level will be the most difficult—at least for some. In fact, this level is not for newbie’s, or those with weak faith; because in this level, I am going to take sides with Jermaine—and say that there is no hoax, MJ is really dead. If you can’t handle this level, then please just skip it. Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend! afraid/ <br /><br />It’s time to test what you have learned in the last two years. How solid is your hoax evidence? Is it irrefutable, or is it based on fantasy and imagination? No doubt more will turn against me at this level; but that’s okay, because I’m not here to win a popularity contest. For those who have read all of my previous posts, you will probably understand the purpose of this level; also, some things from previous levels may now become clear. bounce/ <br /><br />In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion; you can bring any evidence you want, to support the hoax theory. And I will try to debunk it, and support the murder theory. You can also use my own previous hoax evidence, if you want. For nearly a year now, there has not even been one serious attempt to claim the $999 numerology reward; so the timing of MJ’s death was certainly planned. However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. :shock: <br /><br />Regarding the trial delay: I was very aware of a possible delay; if not, my May 1 post would’ve been much different (which you will see in level 6). I have never said that everything has been planned to the day (although exact timing was planned up to 9-9-09). More than once, I’ve said that there have been delays; anyone who has read all of my posts already knows this. Also, Jermaine rescheduled his book, because the trial was delayed {}. Does this mean that Jermaine is not in on the hoax? Well, I guess some people are starting to think that the family is not in on the hoax. I have always said that the family is in on it; so my answer was already given, long before the question was asked {}. :roll:<br /><br />If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!! argue/
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Allow me to dig into my evidence file and I'll be back after work!
'Till then....nothing but love and blessings to all ( you too TS )
Blessings!
The only good thing that happen to me today <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ -->
About the Illuminati finding out about the hoax before and killing Michael to fit in with the timings, for this reason is why I think the hoax actually happened on the 'other' day. In case TPTB did find out and were planning to kill him on June 25, MJ outsmarts them and is already safely tucked away when the 'death' is re-created on June 25. Because we do know there was an 'other' day and there has to be a reason why.
That's all i'll say for now, I'm not on a proper computer so it's hard to type. But good to see you here again TS!
Miss you much~God bless you!
I discredit what Jermaine said, I happened to me I'm talking about something with someone and suddenly say something that has nothing to do with what you are talking about. This will discredit anyone
i figured it out , you must be my husband , he can't handle having more than two choices either.
Well now we're getting to the questions I've been asking myself for almost 2 years. Although if he WAS murdered I don't necessarily think the Illuminati had anything to do with it. The idea that he might have been murdered is the only thing keeping me from sailing on the same boat with everyone else who is so sure he faked his death and will be returning...though I wish I could be on that boat. The "what ifs" keep me questioning what really happened on June 25, 2009 and on the shore of doubt. Sometimes that's a hard place to be on this forum because "if I don't believe then why am I here," right? Well the truth is what I want. No matter what it is. Without the truth there is no closure to this mess. And though there are those who say they know the truth, they are not very forthcoming with it. Which always brings me to the family. If I had to make an argument against murder it would be the family's behavior. If my brother had been murdered and I KNEW who did it, I wouldn't be hocking books and tv shows with promises of the truth. I would be spilling the truth to everyone who would listen. Cops, fans, family, friends, they would all know and there would be no price tag attached to it. Some might claim that it would put that family member in danger if they spoke out, but truth has risks sometimes and I would take those risks if it were my brother. Then I'm right back to doubt again when I think "what if they threatened his children?" I would NOT risk the children. Sometimes I think that is why they aren't hiding behind masks now. So WE can watch them. People say the paps should leave the children alone, but as long as they are having their picture taken, and the world is watching, we know they are okay. So anyway, with that I'm back to just enough doubt to keep me going insane.
TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile.
It occurs to me I'm not making a very good case AGAINST the murder theory so this post is pointless to everyone but me. Just some of my thoughts on the subject and I guess they are as important as anybody else's. For what it's worth, this made more sense the first time I typed it out and I know I forgot a couple things. First time I got it all typed, got ready to hit submit, and then my computer just shuts off. I don't know why. Just BAM! it's off...Cue Twilight Zone music and lots of cussing. lol
That is not what is being shared here. I see you are new, welcome. Have you read all of the previous TS posts? If not, you should read there, it will be a big help for you with this one.
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1.MJ's family would be MURDERERS, and on the side of the Illuminati, because
(a)They planned MJ's memorial on 7-7-09, 7 years from his will written on 7-7-02, and
(b) while his death on 25-6-09 was 77 days from 9-9-09, they planned his burial 7 days from 9-9-09,
to make both (a) & (b) to coincide with the 777 shirt he wore in TII so that it appears to be a death hoax.
2.TMZ is on the side of the Illuminati, for giving us multiple 'clues' that the entire murder was planned - e.g. <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7/<!-- m -->
3.Sony AEG/Columbia Pictures, and some of the TII production team are in on the murder (made to look like a hoax) because the film was planned exactly to last 111 minutes.
4.The FBI are ALSO in on the murder, because they released exactly 333 pages of MJ files.
I'm trying to evaluate the incentives and motivations for each of them to be on the side of the Illuminatii. For the FBI, perhaps they would not have much of a choice but to take part in the murder plot IF the Illuminati has a certain control over the government or government entities. For Sony to be part of a murder plot would not be hard to believe, because MJ's death would bring in more profits than it did in the 'last few years' of his life. For TMZ to be in on the murder plot: again, they could easily be profit-driven given that releasing MJ news first-hand would give them greater readership.
As for the family:
This is hardest to comprehend. Why in the world would they want to murder their brother/son?
1. They are all secretly jealous of MJ's success and hate him.
2. They are after money - the Illuminati could have promised them a large sum of money, and they could make some money off MJ's death (e.g. selling interviews/stories).
I'm sorry TS, I can't offer anything concrete to debunk the murder theory, but it seems like the murder theory is a possible explanation though my perceived likelihood of it being true is very low, simply because I cannot believe that the Jacksons are capable of being heartless and hateful towards MJ. That of course being based on my intuition and feelings, which is not the cold, hard evidence you want.
Can't wait for your own debunking of the murder theory, TS. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- smoonwalk_/ -->moonwalk_/<!-- smoonwalk_/ -->
These are cool. But I would like to know what's written in small letters. Can someone help?
Some think he is alive, some think he was murdered by illuminati, some think he was killed by Sony to make an easier way to the catalogue, some think he was killed by Murray by accident.
Given Michael's dedication to change the world - I think it's not so crazy to believe he was murdered because he couldn't keep his mouth shut and his popularity was still huge, even after all the allegations. On the other hand, if they wanted to kill him they could have done it years ago, as for a few years before 2009 he wasn't so vocal so he didn't seem to be a threat anymore, but maybe the planned comeback and the fist to an imaginary enemy in the London press conference made them take imediat action, before the "damage" was done with the This is it tour.
On the other hand, Michael was sad about the accusations that he tried to deny his race by bleaching his skin. OK maybe I cross the line with this but because Murray is a black man - I don't see him involved in murdering another black man. I don't say it's not possible though. Well I don't know too much about this subject, I just think it is similar with what is happening for centuries in another countries where 2 different nations share the same teritory. There's always going to be a blind fight going underneath.
But what about this pic of Murray - I don't know these kind of things but some say that thing around his neck is a mason simbol?! And of course I have no proof but it is possible these people kill - from what I know by now it is possible they kill those who speak against freemasonry. I repeat there is not direct proof for this, just....some deaths are misteriously related to speeches against masonry.
I ask myself this question on a daily basis recently, so I really welcome your post TS! Playing devil's advocate, looking at the other side is essential.
Problems arise for me because gut feelings and instinct, overide the 'evidence' and always lead me back to the hoax, not murder, scenario. I have questioned the suspicious deaths of other famous people in the past, questioned the 'suspicious' part but never the actual 'death'. With MJ everything is different.
I'll be back later with more thoughts - thank you for opening this discussion. Let's try and prove MJ is dead!
But it DID. And that sealed it for me.
I watched a state TV channel.
What did they broadcast?
A soap about conspiracy theories ridiculing without ANY logical argumentation those questioning.
It started with a long detailed elaboration on Paul Mc Cartney's double, covered briefly Elvis, extensively Pearl Harbour and very briefly Michael (so as if they were not sure about whether he faked or not).
And every once in a while they would fade the $ pyramid with the allseeing eye in.
I have no proof for my statement, but I firmly believe that Michael outthought them.
They do have a pattern that you will notice when knowing about them.
When following the news you can identify what they are about.
That's their major Achilles' heel: they are predictable.
L.O.V.E. and blessings to all.
Level 4 is really challenging(for keeping the faith <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ), but now we get level 5!penguin/
I LOVE YOU ALL & GOD BLESS;)
If illuminati killed Michael, the motives are:
1. Lyrics of his songs enlighten people about reality and healing the world which is against illuminati goals?
2. They jealous of MJ success, some black man from Indiana easily earns millions?
If Michael outsmarted them, I don't see why he should come back and continue again be a target.
As for what exactly happened, I think family is the answer. Normally when someone's child is killed, the parent would have not sought money remedies filing wrongful death lawsuit. As Jacksons used to say about Chandler's father who agreed to settle case for large $$$ instead of wanting to see Michael in jail "for what he did to his child". If child is killed,parents & sibblings would have participated in investigation case themselves to find out who is behind the murder & used CM as a scapegoat as they say. Only 4 years in prison for manslaughter is not what would be the right punishment for killing MJ. How Jackson can be satisfied? Then should bombard the prosecutorr with questions about tapes and why defendant is not charged with murder, why other doctors are not charged & investigated ,etc.
Instead, we see them calm, indifferent, writing books, working, & spreading clues. After all if Michael is really killed, then Jacksons most disfunctional, heartless, bloodless, selfish monsters deserving disrespect & be ignored.
Yikes these levels are getting tough!
I'm more inclined to see what the best thinkers/writers here have to say, since I have thousands of pieces of scattered hoax evidences all jumbled in my head, each one with its own possible contrary evidence to prove it wrong or coincidental. That's what's maddening--nothing is solid.
My question is how could MJ have people involved in the hoax such as his family, but only give out enough information without endangering the overall plan should something leak to the wrong people. Afterall these are ordinary people with varying degrees of ability or willingness. The people in on it need to know at least enough for their assignment to make sense and for them not to make a stupid mistake from a misunderstanding. MDC, you mentioned them possibly learning MJ’s hoax plans from the Neverland raids and finding MJ’s prolific notes scribbled on various details. But even if this happened, still the overall master plans are all just going to be in his head and nowhere else, and they would have to do torture on him to extract that (MJ is the composer putting together the ‘notes’ in harmony). TS has already mentioned the 4 or 5 reasons for the hoax, and so there are probably also layers of meaning behind aspects of the hoax, such as a magical/illusion act but also a spiritual significance. The Illuminati and Freemasonry are also run that way that members in the bottom level (pyramidal) only know enough to carry out their task such as operating a charity, and they answer to superiors on up in levels to the top who know everything (the eye) with supposedly evil intentions to rule the world as a few master over many slaves.
I agree with others here that everything to me since right after believing on the hoax, rests on the behaviour of his family especially his 3 children-- UNLESS every one of his siblings and parents are truly out to kill him for his money, and these 3 children are not really his and are only with a double of MJ. All mind-bending stuff that I hate even thinking about, but my mind has agonized over many possible scenarios all this time. So assuming his family do love him and those ARE his 3 children, they do not act like someone whose brother/father was horribly murdered, but seem happy, well-adjusted, pursuing careers, school and life.
If the Illuminati were truly after MJ they would have found many ways to stop him such as, charging him guilty and sending him to jail in 2005, assassinating him with some deranged sniper, severely censoring the internet and removing MJ and hoax related material during this time, threatening his family and friends and forcing them to say and do things.
TS said, “However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level. ”
This says that the Illuminati managed to piece together the hoax plans and killed him on June 25th, but then afterwards would they really go to the trouble of continuing with hoax clues for 2 full years for a dwindling group of believers that are a tiny percentage of world-wide MJ fans, and that would be completely not noticed by the rest of the world.
I also have some questions about the involvement of multinational companies being involved in the hoax who I had always read/thought were involved with Illuminati such as Coca Cola, McDonalds, and also big media such as TMZ and Warner/AOL and Hollywood and the music industry, the FBI who it seems we are being led to believe are helping MJ carry out aspects of this hoax. This tells me that the Illuminati, whatever or whoever they are, could possibly be working with Michael and not against him in this hoax. There have been threads on them using MJ as a sort of false coming Messiah role to fulfill an apocalypic scenario. Would MJ go along with a plan of deceiving the world on such a massive scale because of a big ego? No, IMO.
I’m of the opinion that it is God who is playing both sides of this chess game, controlling and moving the players as He chooses. MJ sings in this newly leaked song, It's All in Your Name. It just always seems to me that every suggested way of making sense of everything in this hoax always has problems, meaning that no one is able to put the pieces together properly, or we are missing a LOT of key pieces. <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- smj_dance/ -->mj_dance/<!-- smj_dance/ -->
I don't speak a little more because I love so much read and investigate all your posts and messages of this great forum.
But I'm in the army of LOVE for Michael and I am sure, at this time "enlightened" have been overshadowed by Michael.
I'm sure that level 5 will challenge all of us that we put our trust, but with independence of mind, it is a journey so deep that all senses are in alert even though often there are days that lead to discouragement and despondency.
However all this is useful for extend our intellectuals borders and increase the mental capacity to look beyond, forever.
I always think that the most difficult paths lead to great destinations <!-- smoonwalk_/ -->moonwalk_/<!-- smoonwalk_/ -->