Katharine shopping away at Target the next day after Michael passed always gave it away for me as well...great list though of great reminders!
Not the same day, June 29th she was at Target and all of a sudden some reporter was right there to make a video of her shopping sleeping bags. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Twiggy from MJHOAXLIVE, said she has talked to witnesses that saw Murray running from carolwood dve on the 25th June 2009.
I am in a rush, but just check her website..
Linda from StarMaps, also believes Michael is alive......and she should know.
Exactly. News was announcing police is looking for MJ's personal doctor who disappeared. But Katherine Jackson told Oprah at the hospital she was waiting for hours to someone to come out and tell her what going on with MJ and finally doctor Murrey was the one who came out and told her Michael is gone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Who's Linda from Starmaps? Link please
This is the defence story previously published by TMZ...
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself 4/5/2010 4:15 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, but the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
More Michael Jackson
* Dr. Murray: Why Apologize? I Did Nothing Wrong
* Conrad Murray -- I Tried Saving Michael Jackson
* Michael Jackson Coroner Report - House of Drugs
Michael Jackson doctor's defense to focus on second syringe
By Victoria Kim, Los Angeles Times December 30, 2010
'Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case,' Conrad Murray's lawyer tells judge at hearing.
An attorney for the doctor facing an involuntary manslaughter charge in the death of pop star Michael Jackson indicated at a hearing Wednesday that the defense will focus on a second syringe found at the singer's bedside.
Attorney J. Michael Flanagan, representing Dr. Conrad Murray, told the judge the syringe may have been used by someone other than the doctor to administer the powerful anesthetic that caused Jackson's death June 25, 2009.
"Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case," Flanagan told Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor.
Wednesday's hearing was over a defense request for a court order allowing the county coroner's office to test the quantity of the drugs in two syringes and an IV bag found in Jackson's room at the Holmby Hills mansion he was leasing. One syringe was connected to the IV and clearly used by Murray to administer drugs, Flanagan said. The other was found on the floor, broken, with an unidentified fingerprint, according to the attorney.
"We all know which syringe the doctor used," Flanagan said, comparing the situation with police finding two .38-caliber guns at a crime scene and figuring out "which of these guns did it."
In early statements to police, Murray said he gave the singer 25 milligrams — half the regular dose. In his argument, Flanagan implied that the dosage administered by Murray may not explain the amount of the drug in Jackson's blood. A mix of propofol and lidocaine were found in both syringes, Flanagan said.
"The evidence is going to show later in the case that a very large dose of propofol is needed to get to the level in Michael Jackson's blood," the attorney said.
Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren said the defense appeared to be gearing up to argue that the second syringe was used by the singer to administer propofol to himself.
"I think it's clear they're operating under the theory that the victim in this case, Michael Jackson, killed himself," he told the judge. "They don't want to say it. They're walking around it."
Outside court, Flanagan declined to comment on the prosecutor's statement, saying, "That was his assessment."
Pastor told the attorneys that he would allow the coroner to conduct the test if Murray's defense acknowledges they were notified of the "risks and limitations" associated with testing the limited sample. He said he is also willing to allow both sides to split the sample if the defense wanted an outside lab to conduct the test.
Haven't' they checked fingerprints on syringe and bottle whether they are Michael's or doctor's? This is real joke not investigation. Everybody speculating instead of taking legal steps to find answers. <!-- s --><!-- s --> Should we direct them how to investigate? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I've commented previously about the hearing, but I'm noticing something about this photo. Is it just me or can you see how pale Murray's skin is around his hairline? On almost every picture I see of him, his skin is never quite the same all over and somewhere, there's always a pale blotch. But, never a blotch that's in the same place on his face or neck in every picture. I think the last time I looked at a photo of Murray a few months ago, the pale patch of skin was close to his ear. Now, it's around his forehead and hairline. And remember the very first photo the public saw with the blotchiness on his hand? Interesting.
Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
Well, now we must be alert to the reaction of the whole family <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: --> ... and the fans who think that Michael was killed <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
I think most of the fans will jump on the "he would never do that" wagon... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I'm not sure who the heck Murray actually is but I really really feel there are multiple Murray's, at least 3 that we keep seeing. There is the one that spoke on video and seemed sort of Michael-like and then there was a really dark skinned one who seemed shorter than this big and tall dude swaggering along with the cops leading him. We have seen the tall one jogging and bare legged in photos but something still looks off to me when he is in his dressy clothes, like he's not filling out his clothes and he's always bent over and slouching near the waist line and holding his gut and the way he has those shifty eyes, sipping his drinks etc....something stinks with Murray big time!
DA Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will Argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense was operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself." LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that When he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson and awakened in a moment or Frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol. Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They do not want to say it but that's the direction in Which They are going." Walgren said in court, "They don'tTo read th want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
e defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE . To read the defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE .
More Michael Jackson More Michael Jackson
Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got? Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
Evidence or Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
I think this page has changed there is now a link to click to the story back in May and a poll which I dont remember seeing before? time to vote again me thinks! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Vote currently 58% BS <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Michael Jackson death hearing getting ugly - suicide, syringes talk
December 29th, 2010 8:14 pm ET.
One man's life hangs in the balance and one has already been lost in the Michael Jackson death case. Dr. Conrad Murray's upcoming court hearing is making headline news today and it includes talk of Jackson having committed suicide, according to the Associated Press.
Michael Jackson's death rocked the world and brought out much angst and anger against the doctor alleged to have given him a fatal drug dose the last day of his life. And if Dr. Murray's defense does allege that the King of Pop entertainer Michael Jackson committed suicide, the passions will run even higher.
Suicide being posited alleges prosecutor
"I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself," said Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.
Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer isn't saying anything of the sort at present, but what he is doing is attempting to obtain control of important evidence in the case.
Murray's lawyers fought with the prosecutor in a hearing today to gain control over the testing of two syringes found in the home bedroom of the deceased King of Pop singer on the day he died.
Crime scene syringes
Residue from the syringes have the potential to support or refute testimony about Michael Jackson by Dr. Murray, so the doctor's lawyer wants to be the one to have the syringes tested--not the prosecutor or law enforcement. But that flies in the face of law enforcement and judicial protocol, as you never give a potential guilty party access to any evidence.
The syringes in question were found at the alleged crime scene on the day Michael Jackson died.
Jackson's bedroom was considered a potential crime scene by law enforcement once his condition turned fatal at the hospital. Police were tasked with treating the bedroom as such, examining it for potential evidence.
Two syringes found in the bedroom--one on the floor, another in an intravenous medication bag---contain residue and one unidentified fingerprint.
Unidentified fingerprint and ridge count
In cop speak, an unidentifed fingerprint means the fingerprint is either A) illegible, not belonging to the victim or the accused, or C) not in AFIS (the Automated Fingerprint Identification System), which houses fingerprints of criminals, as well as federal and civil employees, or D) the latent fingerprint removed doesn't have enough ridge counts to enable AFIS processing or accurate identification by other means.
Either way, no one standing accused of murder--nor the accused's lawyer--should ever be given access to potential evidence that could exonerate or condemn them by a jury.
Suicide talk pointless even as a defense
Michael Jackson's family has already endured a tulmutous period due to his death, so Dr. Conrad Murray's defense should not attempt to save their clien't life at the expense of truth.
Painting an erroneous picture of a suicidal Jackson--if that is not a fact (and can be proven) when the court hearing takes place on Jan. 4. 2011, would be highly unwise by the defense.
It would be better to fall upon the mercy of the court at this point than risk the ire of justice, the Jackson clan and Michael's fans all in one fell swoop.
And suicide would be about the most impossible defense to prove in this case, anyway, as Michael Jackson was not only at the top of his game after a very long sojourn; he didn't bring the drugs into the house--his doctor did.
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
This is the defence story previously published by TMZ...
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself 4/5/2010 4:15 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, but the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
More Michael Jackson
* Dr. Murray: Why Apologize? I Did Nothing Wrong
* Conrad Murray -- I Tried Saving Michael Jackson
* Michael Jackson Coroner Report - House of Drugs
TMZ seem to have now added a POLL to this page currently standing at 58% BS reading. click this link to see current POLL ad VOTE <!-- m -->http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... a_jGyn8URQ<!-- m --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> SORRY IT WONT COPY THE VOTE BOX
it seems like up until last night all of the information about the case has been coming from tabloidish sources. wasn't there a statement made on the one informer vid about paying attention to upcoming news from the non-tabloid news outlets. this particular aspect of the whole deal was reported on regular news last night. just mentioning it .
So has Murray been building his alibi from day one to point the finger at Michael? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> If he "allegedly" gave him only 25 mg of profofol which has been reported to not really put you under, was this the "alleged" loophole that was the lead in to MJ injecting himself? The scenario being that Murray "conveniently" leaves MJ unattended but only after having given him less than the needed amount to put him out. In essence MJ is still awake though not fully and needing more. Murray is again "conveniently" off his job and not aware of MJ's needs, therefore MJ decides to take matters into his own hands? It sounds ridiculous to me, but as we know as long as one juror can be convinced it isn't, it's all relevant. But will a judge fall for this crap?
Beyond the fact that we on this site aren't falling for the okey doke there is one other REAL advantage to this strategy which is brilliant actually (on Michael's part); by using the MJ killed himself theory, it bridges the gap between the fans. Believers and hoaxers alike would be completely outraged on a defense having MJ injecting himself w/propofol. What ever the differences, the hate would be put on hold for this. We would once again stand toe to toe and fight for Michael Jackson, our hero. After that, how could they be angered at MJ for hoaxing his death. Once forced to see exactly what Michael was up against, the bias, the threats, etc. they would have to soften their hearts and come around to accepting that what Michael did was done for his safety and possibly world peace. MJsArmyofLove reinstated.
Their beef with believers is that they feel we are ignoring that Murray killed MJ. If the trial does not represent that, then they will be more outraged at them forcing them to pay more attention to the details. In so doing, they will have to come around to see what is the truth. It's more than what meets the eye. Gotta put your heart aside and use your mind. This is bigger than all of us.
Twiggy from MJHOAXLIVE, said she has talked to witnesses that saw Murray running from carolwood dve on the 25th June 2009.
I am in a rush, but just check her website..
Linda from StarMaps, also believes Michael is alive......and she should know.
Exactly. News was announcing police is looking for MJ's personal doctor who disappeared. But Katherine Jackson told Oprah at the hospital she was waiting for hours to someone to come out and tell her what going on with MJ and finally doctor Murrey was the one who came out and told her Michael is gone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Who's Linda from Starmaps? Link please
Linda from starmaps is the lady who sold Starmaps of the beverly hills area right at the corner of carolwood drive/sunset boulevard,next to MJs house.Last time I saw her was in Sept.09, she was not selling her maps any more at that corner Febr.10 and June/July10. She was seen very upset as the ambulance drove away and the Startours lady was speaking to her tourists in the van, remember? As I was
there in Sept.09, I talked to Linda and she made the impression to me of being a good actress so I don`t
know how serious I can take her.She said she is sure MJ is dead as I was bringing the subject up ,"there were people crying out there" and she also said that MJ came out to talk to her one day and to sign a map, she said he was so sweet.She also mentioned many strange people entering that house the past few days/weeks before he died. So anyway, I am wondering where Linda is stating he is alive.Any link available?
Beyond the fact that we on this site aren't falling for the okey doke there is one other REAL advantage to this strategy which is brilliant actually (on Michael's part); by using the MJ killed himself theory, it bridges the gap between the fans. Believers and hoaxers alike would be completely outraged on a defense having MJ injecting himself w/propofol. What ever the differences, the hate would be put on hold for this. We would once again stand toe to toe and fight for Michael Jackson, our hero. After that, how could they be angered at MJ for hoaxing his death. Once forced to see exactly what Michael was up against, the bias, the threats, etc. they would have to soften their hearts and come around to accepting that what Michael did was done for his safety and possibly world peace. MJsArmyofLove reinstated.
Their beef with believers is that they feel we are ignoring that Murray killed MJ. If the trial does not represent that, then they will be more outraged at them forcing them to pay more attention to the details. In so doing, they will have to come around to see what is the truth. It's more than what meets the eye. Gotta put your heart aside and use your mind. This is bigger than all of us.
I was thinking of that as well, but you put it into words so greatly, thank you! The thing with the syringes as a possibility of proof that MJ did put the amount of propofol into his body himself is absolutely BS, from a medical point of view as well as from a logical perspective (after all the posts about this I think I don`t need to explain myself,do I?).
I copied two paragraphs, the first one is from the article this thread starts with, the second one is the last paragraph of the TMZ article from April.I am trying to take this whole thing by the word and for serious during 5 minutes of time in order to get out of the hoaxthinking.Just to check whether I come to any other conclusion. Luckily, I don`t <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
First:
Prosecutors have refused to agree to a testing plan. "We don't think it is relevant," prosecutor David Walgren said during a Dec. 16 meeting, according to a transcript.
Court transcripts obtained by the AP show that Murray's defense attorneys, prosecutors and Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor have spoken in chambers three times about the syringes and testing.
Second:
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
So whatever;Murray is always guilty and the attorneys know that too well, they know the selfkilling possibility cannot hold stand in a juristical sense, which is being confirmed by the prosecutor who thinks the testingresults are not relevant. But it can hold stand very well for the purpose of triggering the thought that Michael has the choreography of the staging of his own death in his very own hands, IMO of course <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
MIchael is feeding them the usual story for a "strange" death.
Usually it's a "natural" cause or it's a self-induced accident.
Sometimes a suicide, sometimes a riot, sometimes a thief, sometimes a neighbourhood shooting. In this case it's not a Baretta, it's syringes, perfectly fitting into the wheelchair skinny not eating and scared to death image of the gone-crazy nut that had nothing better to do than take an overdose out of a frustration rage attack.
That's standard Hollywood repertoire - everybody nodding and more or less all news agencies spreading this (as usual) as being the truth. Where there usually is a second layer in the story, we find at least 7 layers of different meanings in Michael's "case". Just that the majority of media and journalists don't catch them and report copy-paste as usual. I wonder when they lost their glasses (and more) to the $$$.
But there's hope. Some few people in the media stand out and I do hope that some of these precious diamonds are to be found in justice, authorities and politics as well.
Still don't know why Mr. Murray can change colour, height, weight... But so could Michael, hmmm.
Michael is fighting them back with and within their own system and his snowball is causing an avalanche. He had enough sleepless nights to study them in-depth I guess.
Go Michael! Go!
D.A. Acknowledges Murray Defense: MJ Killed Himself 15 minutes ago by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
L.A. County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They don't want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
More Michael Jackson
* Conrad Murray to Prosecutor: So Whatcha Got?
* Michael Jackson Manslaughter Prelim - 30 Witnesses
* Evidence of Other Doctors in Michael Jackson's Death
Having Murray and the prosecutor pointing to MJ having 'killed' himself speaks SOOOOOO PRO hoax. Of course, MJ's responsible for his own (hoax-)death - because he planned it. This is another step towards his return. The court story IMHO is just a necessairy side story to accompany the main story. The circle closes nicely. With MJ having 'killed himself' Murray will soon be a free man (as he already has been all these months ...). He's not done anything and nobody died. Very nice conclusion.
Comments
Not the same day, June 29th she was at Target and all of a sudden some reporter was right there to make a video of her shopping sleeping bags. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Exactly. News was announcing police is looking for MJ's personal doctor who disappeared. But Katherine Jackson told Oprah at the hospital she was waiting for hours to someone to come out and tell her what going on with MJ and finally doctor Murrey was the one who came out and told her Michael is gone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Who's Linda from Starmaps? Link please
Dr. Murray's Defense - Jackson Killed Himself
4/5/2010 4:15 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
TMZ has learned Dr. Conrad Murray's legal defense is that Michael Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol.
Multiple sources familiar with the strategy tell TMZ the defense argument goes like this:
- At around 10:50 AM, Dr. Murray gave Jackson 25 mg of Propofol from a 20 ml bottle -- that's only about 1/8 of the bottle.
- The dose Dr. Murray administered would keep someone asleep for only 5 to 10 minutes, but the Propofol, along with the Ativan and Versed that was already in MJ's system, had a synergistic effect that put Jackson to sleep for a longer period of time.
- For the next hour, Dr. Murray stayed in the room and was on the phone for much of the time. Dr. Murray didn't leave the room to make the calls because MJ liked activity in the room, regularly sleeping with the lights on and cartoons blaring on the TV.
- At around noon, Dr. Murray left the room for approximately two minutes to go to the bathroom. While he was gone, the defense believes Jackson suddenly awakened and was frustrated he had spent nearly 9 hours trying in vain to sleep. The defense theory -- Jackson took the 20 ml bottle of Propofol and self-injected the remaining contents through the IV, causing a massive overdose that stopped his heart.
- Dr. Murray walked back in the room and saw Jackson with his eyes open and pupils dilated. Dr. Murray dropped the phone (he was speaking with his girlfriend) and began administering CPR.
The defense will argue Michael Jackson was a long-time Propofol addict -- something TMZ first reported shortly after the singer's death. As one source said, Jackson liked the sensation of Propofol being administered by IV, adding, "Michael liked to push it."
L.A. County Coroner's investigators took a picture in the room, showing an empty Propofol bottle on the floor, underneath the nightstand by Jackson's bed. The defense will argue Jackson grabbed the bottle from the nightstand, injected himself and then dropped the bottle.
Remember, law enforcement believes Dr. Murray hid bottles of Propofol before paramedics arrived. The defense will argue ... if Dr. Murray was really hiding Propofol, he would have removed the empty bottle under the nightstand that caused Jackson's death.
Ed Chernoff, Murray's attorney, could not be reached for comment.
More Michael Jackson
* Dr. Murray: Why Apologize? I Did Nothing Wrong
* Conrad Murray -- I Tried Saving Michael Jackson
* Michael Jackson Coroner Report - House of Drugs
http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-death-cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/
By Victoria Kim, Los Angeles Times December 30, 2010
'Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case,' Conrad Murray's lawyer tells judge at hearing.
An attorney for the doctor facing an involuntary manslaughter charge in the death of pop star Michael Jackson indicated at a hearing Wednesday that the defense will focus on a second syringe found at the singer's bedside.
Attorney J. Michael Flanagan, representing Dr. Conrad Murray, told the judge the syringe may have been used by someone other than the doctor to administer the powerful anesthetic that caused Jackson's death June 25, 2009.
"Who injected the propofol? That's the issue in this case," Flanagan told Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor.
Wednesday's hearing was over a defense request for a court order allowing the county coroner's office to test the quantity of the drugs in two syringes and an IV bag found in Jackson's room at the Holmby Hills mansion he was leasing. One syringe was connected to the IV and clearly used by Murray to administer drugs, Flanagan said. The other was found on the floor, broken, with an unidentified fingerprint, according to the attorney.
"We all know which syringe the doctor used," Flanagan said, comparing the situation with police finding two .38-caliber guns at a crime scene and figuring out "which of these guns did it."
In early statements to police, Murray said he gave the singer 25 milligrams — half the regular dose. In his argument, Flanagan implied that the dosage administered by Murray may not explain the amount of the drug in Jackson's blood. A mix of propofol and lidocaine were found in both syringes, Flanagan said.
"The evidence is going to show later in the case that a very large dose of propofol is needed to get to the level in Michael Jackson's blood," the attorney said.
Deputy Dist. Atty. David Walgren said the defense appeared to be gearing up to argue that the second syringe was used by the singer to administer propofol to himself.
"I think it's clear they're operating under the theory that the victim in this case, Michael Jackson, killed himself," he told the judge. "They don't want to say it. They're walking around it."
Outside court, Flanagan declined to comment on the prosecutor's statement, saying, "That was his assessment."
Pastor told the attorneys that he would allow the coroner to conduct the test if Murray's defense acknowledges they were notified of the "risks and limitations" associated with testing the limited sample. He said he is also willing to allow both sides to split the sample if the defense wanted an outside lab to conduct the test.
A preliminary hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence for Murray's trial to go forward is scheduled to begin Tuesday.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-murray-20101230,0,5593349.story
I've commented previously about the hearing, but I'm noticing something about this photo. Is it just me or can you see how pale Murray's skin is around his hairline? On almost every picture I see of him, his skin is never quite the same all over and somewhere, there's always a pale blotch. But, never a blotch that's in the same place on his face or neck in every picture. I think the last time I looked at a photo of Murray a few months ago, the pale patch of skin was close to his ear. Now, it's around his forehead and hairline. And remember the very first photo the public saw with the blotchiness on his hand? Interesting.
I think most of the fans will jump on the "he would never do that" wagon... <!-- s
12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff 12/29/2010 3:04 PM PST by TMZ Staff
The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray manslaughter case just said in court what TMZ told you back in April -- that Dr. Murray's lawyers will Argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol. Murray's lawyers will argue ... Michael Jackson killed himself with a fatal dose of Propofol.
LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense was operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself." LA County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge today, "I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself."
We broke the story ... We broke the story ... Murray's theory is that When he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson and awakened in a moment or Frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol. Murray's theory is that when he left Michael's bedroom the day he died to go to the bathroom, Jackson awakened and in a moment of frustration infused himself with a massive dose of Propofol.
Walgren said in court, "They do not want to say it but that's the direction in Which They are going." Walgren said in court, "They don'tTo read th want to say it but that's the direction in which they are going."
e defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE . To read the defense theory on MJ killing himself, CLICK HERE .
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I think this page has changed there is now a link to click to the story back in May and a poll which I dont remember seeing before? time to vote again me thinks! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Vote currently 58% BS <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Michael Jackson death hearing getting ugly - suicide, syringes talk
December 29th, 2010 8:14 pm ET.
One man's life hangs in the balance and one has already been lost in the Michael Jackson death case. Dr. Conrad Murray's upcoming court hearing is making headline news today and it includes talk of Jackson having committed suicide, according to the Associated Press.
Michael Jackson's death rocked the world and brought out much angst and anger against the doctor alleged to have given him a fatal drug dose the last day of his life. And if Dr. Murray's defense does allege that the King of Pop entertainer Michael Jackson committed suicide, the passions will run even higher.
Suicide being posited alleges prosecutor
"I do think it's clear the defense is operating under the theory that the victim, Michael Jackson, killed himself," said Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.
Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer isn't saying anything of the sort at present, but what he is doing is attempting to obtain control of important evidence in the case.
Murray's lawyers fought with the prosecutor in a hearing today to gain control over the testing of two syringes found in the home bedroom of the deceased King of Pop singer on the day he died.
Crime scene syringes
Residue from the syringes have the potential to support or refute testimony about Michael Jackson by Dr. Murray, so the doctor's lawyer wants to be the one to have the syringes tested--not the prosecutor or law enforcement. But that flies in the face of law enforcement and judicial protocol, as you never give a potential guilty party access to any evidence.
The syringes in question were found at the alleged crime scene on the day Michael Jackson died.
Jackson's bedroom was considered a potential crime scene by law enforcement once his condition turned fatal at the hospital. Police were tasked with treating the bedroom as such, examining it for potential evidence.
Two syringes found in the bedroom--one on the floor, another in an intravenous medication bag---contain residue and one unidentified fingerprint.
Unidentified fingerprint and ridge count
In cop speak, an unidentifed fingerprint means the fingerprint is either A) illegible,
Either way, no one standing accused of murder--nor the accused's lawyer--should ever be given access to potential evidence that could exonerate or condemn them by a jury.
Suicide talk pointless even as a defense
Michael Jackson's family has already endured a tulmutous period due to his death, so Dr. Conrad Murray's defense should not attempt to save their clien't life at the expense of truth.
Painting an erroneous picture of a suicidal Jackson--if that is not a fact (and can be proven) when the court hearing takes place on Jan. 4. 2011, would be highly unwise by the defense.
It would be better to fall upon the mercy of the court at this point than risk the ire of justice, the Jackson clan and Michael's fans all in one fell swoop.
And suicide would be about the most impossible defense to prove in this case, anyway, as Michael Jackson was not only at the top of his game after a very long sojourn; he didn't bring the drugs into the house--his doctor did.
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
Reference: The Associated Press
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TMZ seem to have now added a POLL to this page currently standing at 58% BS reading. click this link to see current POLL ad VOTE <!-- m -->http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... a_jGyn8URQ<!-- m --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> SORRY IT WONT COPY THE VOTE BOX
Their beef with believers is that they feel we are ignoring that Murray killed MJ. If the trial does not represent that, then they will be more outraged at them forcing them to pay more attention to the details. In so doing, they will have to come around to see what is the truth. It's more than what meets the eye. Gotta put your heart aside and use your mind. This is bigger than all of us.
Linda from starmaps is the lady who sold Starmaps of the beverly hills area right at the corner of carolwood drive/sunset boulevard,next to MJs house.Last time I saw her was in Sept.09, she was not selling her maps any more at that corner Febr.10 and June/July10. She was seen very upset as the ambulance drove away and the Startours lady was speaking to her tourists in the van, remember? As I was
there in Sept.09, I talked to Linda and she made the impression to me of being a good actress so I don`t
know how serious I can take her.She said she is sure MJ is dead as I was bringing the subject up ,"there were people crying out there" and she also said that MJ came out to talk to her one day and to sign a map, she said he was so sweet.She also mentioned many strange people entering that house the past few days/weeks before he died. So anyway, I am wondering where Linda is stating he is alive.Any link available?
I was thinking of that as well, but you put it into words so greatly, thank you! The thing with the syringes as a possibility of proof that MJ did put the amount of propofol into his body himself is absolutely BS, from a medical point of view as well as from a logical perspective (after all the posts about this I think I don`t need to explain myself,do I?).
First:
Prosecutors have refused to agree to a testing plan. "We don't think it is relevant," prosecutor David Walgren said during a Dec. 16 meeting, according to a transcript.
Court transcripts obtained by the AP show that Murray's defense attorneys, prosecutors and Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor have spoken in chambers three times about the syringes and testing.
Second:
Michael Jackson was in the room with a doctor giving him a drug. He wasn't responsible for his death--even if Dr. Murray stepped away for a moment--as Conrad Murray was the physician present and physicians don't leave patients under medication alone to self medicate more. It is called a dereliction of duty or malpractice.
So whatever;Murray is always guilty and the attorneys know that too well, they know the selfkilling possibility cannot hold stand in a juristical sense, which is being confirmed by the prosecutor who thinks the testingresults are not relevant. But it can hold stand very well for the purpose of triggering the thought that Michael has the choreography of the staging of his own death in his very own hands, IMO of course <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Reference: The Associated Press
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MIchael is feeding them the usual story for a "strange" death.
Usually it's a "natural" cause or it's a self-induced accident.
Sometimes a suicide, sometimes a riot, sometimes a thief, sometimes a neighbourhood shooting. In this case it's not a Baretta, it's syringes, perfectly fitting into the wheelchair skinny not eating and scared to death image of the gone-crazy nut that had nothing better to do than take an overdose out of a frustration rage attack.
That's standard Hollywood repertoire - everybody nodding and more or less all news agencies spreading this (as usual) as being the truth. Where there usually is a second layer in the story, we find at least 7 layers of different meanings in Michael's "case". Just that the majority of media and journalists don't catch them and report copy-paste as usual. I wonder when they lost their glasses (and more) to the $$$.
But there's hope. Some few people in the media stand out and I do hope that some of these precious diamonds are to be found in justice, authorities and politics as well.
Still don't know why Mr. Murray can change colour, height, weight... But so could Michael, hmmm.
Michael is fighting them back with and within their own system and his snowball is causing an avalanche. He had enough sleepless nights to study them in-depth I guess.
Go Michael! Go!
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Im in UK. Ive never had this before. Am i the only one????
There are more members from UK having this problem, some only temporary!
Having Murray and the prosecutor pointing to MJ having 'killed' himself speaks SOOOOOO PRO hoax. Of course, MJ's responsible for his own (hoax-)death - because he planned it. This is another step towards his return. The court story IMHO is just a necessairy side story to accompany the main story. The circle closes nicely. With MJ having 'killed himself' Murray will soon be a free man (as he already has been all these months ...). He's not done anything and nobody died. Very nice conclusion.