I think the significance of the body temperature not being recorded is that it points to the credibility of the Coroner Investigator and the authenticity of the Coroner's Case Report/Autopsy. This is from a post I wrote last year.
...she [the Coroner Investigator, Elissa Fleak] seems to have forgotten a really important part of her job. She recorded the temperature of the hospital room but not the decedent’s body. <!-- m -->http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... kson3.html<!-- m -->
Mmmmm seems kind of important. There must be a standard checklist for the investigator to work through. How likely is it that an investigator forgot to record and report body temperature? <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Also - Elissa Fleak has the words lies and fake in her name. Another coincidence?
That's is totally completely and utterly not true.
ADDING HEAT SPEEDS UP DECOMPOSITION. Decomposition begins the moment cellular death occurs. This is not difficult or unusual, people have an annoying habit of dying in less then perfectly climate controlled environments all the time.
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU CANNOT MEDICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY DETERMINE A TIME OF DEATH IN THE DEEP SOUTH IN AUGUST? COME ON!
Ok sorry I'll chill.
But it really baffles me, like mouth open, jaw slack baffles me that the gen pub doesn't see through this facade. I wonder if Michael is equally surprised, or did he know this is how they would react? Did he expect this level of numb, mindless, acceptance of what the TV people say?
This is scary. People really are under complete control by the flashing picture box.
Your comments are spot on. It really is unbelievable isn't it. I have a friend who is a nurse and is 'confused' by Murray's behavior, but still is not questioning the official story. And of course she thinks I"M crazy because I don't believe he's dead.
I have to repost this from 2009 (all credits go to an unknown author):
It must be the moon!
Michael Joseph Jackson was found dead in his bedroom on 25th June 2009 at his rented Holmby Hills Mansion, he was also found dead in his doctors bedroom as well as alive with a slight pulse in a guest bedroom.
He had died 3 hours before the ambulance was called from an overdose of Demerol administered to himself by himself, while listening to the Gipsy Kings, he also died 1 hour before the ambulance was called by a lethal injection of Propofol administered by his Cardiologist who thought it would be a great idea to administer CPR on a bed for an hour. After this Michael was rushed to hospital in an ambulance doing 5 miles an hour where his body finally died after being dead.
Let’s rewind a tad. It is now at this point that I learn that Mr Jackson was in fact a junkie hopped up on enough meds to kill a whorde of wild wilderbeeste. He of course passed his medical with flying colours and went on to practice for his upcoming shows that he both dreaded and looked forward to. His dancing was energetic and not dissimilar to that of a 20 year old with back problems, a hernia and an aging disease similar to Benjamin Button.
He was in high spirits and excited about the upcoming tour. He was also angry about it and cried himself to sleep.
Since his death, Michael has been cremated, he has also been buried at forest lawn and neverland, put on ice, dug up again and is now awaiting to be buried on his birthday as a sort of loving present from his father.
I don't know that demons case in that house on 25 June 2009, but if what they say the paramedicos is the truth, not to recognize Michael by that seemed an old man, or a pasiente hospice or a terminally , definitely not talking about the same person, Michael Jackson.
I am asking who died that day,..or before.
12.21pm (local LA time) (8.21pm BST) - Paramedics respond to a call at Jackson's home. He was not breathing when they arrived but had a personal physician with him. The paramedics performed CPR.
As this was happening: TMZ.com report Jackson, 50, suffered a heart attack and paramedics were unable to revive him
1pm (9pm) - Star's father Joe Jackson tells E! News 'he is not doing well.'
1.14pm (9.14pm) - Jackson arrives at hospital. A team of doctors attempt to resuscitate him for more than an hour.
1.35pm (9.35pm) – Jackson is in a coma and his family arrive at his bedside. Sister LaToya Jackson runs into the hospital sobbing.
1.45pm (9.45pm) - Hundreds of fans gather outside the hospital, anxiously waiting for news.
1.50pm (9.50pm) - 'He had a heart attack,' father Joe Jackson tells E! News by phone from Las
Vegas. 'He is not OK.'
2.26pm (10.26pm) - Jackson is officially pronounced dead.
2.35pm (10.35pm) – Fire official tells LA Times that Jackson is in hospital. This is then reported by Associated Press
2.44pm (10.44pm) - TMZ.com breaks news Jackson has died, leading Google to crash.
3.27pm (11.27pm) – AP reports that a person with knowledge of the situation says Michael Jackson has died
4.25pm (12.25am) - CNN reports Jackson has died after confirmation from coroner's ofifice
So, followig the body temperature; was Michael dead 24 hours before? makes no sense! no according to the activities that Michael engaged during the 23 and 24th.
If there was a body, was the body of someone who died the day before and then placed in the room?
So, followig the body temperature; was Michael dead 24 hours before? makes no sense! no according to the activities that Michael engaged during the 23 and 24th.
If there was a body, was the body of someone who died the day before and then placed in the room?
Yeah, I'm wondering if there could of been a dead body preplanned enough in advance to put in the room after rigor mortis had set in and past the 72 hr rigid time and placed there after it has gone limp again. Then heat up the body to seem like it was hours old. Does anyone know if there is a way to tell how long a body has been dead after the rigor mortis stage has come and gone?
Also wondering if it is possible to change the legal name of a corpse? Maybe they had the dead bodies name changed to Micheal Joesph Jackson so any testimony in court would be accurate, just a different MJ!! Anyone know if this is possible?
So, followig the body temperature; was Michael dead 24 hours before? makes no sense! no according to the activities that Michael engaged during the 23 and 24th.
If there was a body, was the body of someone who died the day before and then placed in the room?
Yeah, I'm wondering if there could of been a dead body preplanned enough in advance to put in the room after rigor mortis had set in and past the 72 hr rigid time and placed there after it has gone limp again. Then heat up the body to seem like it was hours old. Does anyone know if there is a way to tell how long a body has been dead after the rigor mortis stage has come and gone?
Also wondering if it is possible to change the legal name of a corpse? Maybe they had the dead bodies name changed to Micheal Joesph Jackson so any testimony in court would be accurate, just a different MJ!! Anyone know if this is possible?
Under a normal temperature rigor mortis usually occurs within 3-4 hours after clinical death and rigor tends to have a full effect on 12 hours.
May be was a frozen body that was set in the room and defroze (yes, sounds morbid)
As an example; For the quality of the "meat" , the flesh, the meat is frozen immediately after animal sacrifice to increase the concentration of calcium outside and occurs a phenomenon called shortening by cold, by which the meat is reduced to one third of its size, and therefore a loss of water, vitamins, minerals and water-soluble proteins as well as the meat gets tough.
Wasn´t "Michaels body" reported as small, frail, tiny and little weight? <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I am not saying that a human body was shrank 1/3 of its original size, but what if.....a frozen body was used?
In 2009 it was reported that Gunter von Hagens' team had received an inquiry of interest but no formal request. In addition, the bodies prepared by Gunter von Hagens are anonymous. Names of donors will never be published. So we would never know.
I think this is more about the donation program to UCLA.
Maybe there is a deal for a body donated to UCLA ?
Or....Michael being Michael, took in someone "ailing" and let him live out his life there and then planned an escape for whenever that person died. Thus, why no Michael Jackson at the hosp. And why the autopsy don't match his shape. Or, it was one of his doubles that lived there, suffered some illness and that was who the dr. was really needed for on the tour. During the practicing he lived at Carolwood, and murray came there for him. As he was terminal, the escape hinged upon whenever he died. That part was spontaneous. The cover up was covering Michael's guest so he could escape.
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> This is not a Hoax for the faint hearted... beware! Risk of cardiac arrest! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
The article title "Jackson Time of Death a Mystery" is my main take from this re-direct!
All we know for sure is that the time of death is a mystery because nobody seems to know or want to say anything about it! And reading between the lines, I am just getting TS message as Michael time of death is a mystery because he is alive (and let's not forget that He is the ultimate man of Mystery <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> )!
We can theorise as much as we want about a body or no body but i don't think we have any facts to enlighten our "investigation".
I also thought that a corpse was used, this corpse happened to be male and sufficiently thin to pass for MJ and have been preserved sufficiently well so that experienced doctors would not questioned its "authenticity". This same corpse would also have needed to be injected the relevant drugs so that to provide valid autopsy results! ... and the associated lies to authenticate the corpse!
And as the whole numerology is based on specific date and even times, this corpse would have needed to be available just in time!
Thinking about it now! It just seems to be too far fetched! then did he used a dummy and if so which type of dummy? Could he have commissioned some work by Gunter von Hagens/others to create a "semi-human" dummy which could fool experienced medics, more so if Murray was interfering and conveniently keeping them away?
Could then the coroner have been paid off to fake the autopsy or a different corpse used at UCLA?
Or is the whole event staged, including the preliminary hearings and possible trial, and done with the federal government "blessings"? But this really does not fit well with the NWO message... and could place significant restrictions on what can or cannot be done!
.... but paramedics say when they arrived they believed he was dead for at least an hour and maybe longer.
... when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time.
TS said:
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
Considering the corpse possibility: do you remember anything about the room being heated extra warm—in the summer of all times {http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/jackson-time-of-death-a-mystery/}? Maybe the room was heated to make the corpse feel warm, like it had just died. And do you remember the paramedics saying that MJ had been dead for more than an hour before they arrived—and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man?
So from this point of view, I get that there was a real human body in that room who was dead for more than an hour. And that was definitely NOT Michael.
.... but paramedics say when they arrived they believed he was dead for at least an hour and maybe longer.
... when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time.
TS said:
This leaves us with three possibilities. There was no body at all, which would require quite a few people to be “in on it”. There was a dummy, not a real human; this reduces the number of people “in on it”, and also makes it easy to duplicate the looks of MJ (but paramedics would need to be “in on it”, because they would not be fooled by a dummy). Or there was a real human corpse, which had recently died. In fact, at different times and places, there could’ve been more than one corpse and/or dummy used as needed.
Considering the corpse possibility: do you remember anything about the room being heated extra warm—in the summer of all times {http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/jackson-time-of-death-a-mystery/}? Maybe the room was heated to make the corpse feel warm, like it had just died. And do you remember the paramedics saying that MJ had been dead for more than an hour before they arrived—and also that they did not realize it was MJ, and thought it looked like an old man?
So from this point of view, I get that there was a real human body in that room who was dead for more than an hour. And that was definitely NOT Michael.
Yep I agree.
Also added to this, remember the 911 call...there was NEVER a name of a person mentioned.....just that it was a "gentleman who was not breathing".
It's great to have received this redirect BEFORE Sade Anding's testimony today. So on point, TS. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> I'm gonna kick-back, exhale, and watch it all unfold in your own time, Michael. Got Faith?
Could somehow the time of death be faked...if MJ were to use a double that maybe died a few days earlier could he make it look like the person died on June 25th?
Could he have commissioned some work by Gunter von Hagens/others to create a "semi-human" dummy which could fool experienced medics, more so if Murray was interfering and conveniently keeping them away? Could then the coroner have been paid off to fake the autopsy or a different corpse used at UCLA? Or is the whole event staged, including the preliminary hearings and possible trial, and done with the federal government "blessings"? But this really does not fit well with the NWO message... and could place significant restrictions on what can or cannot be done!
I'm with the "whole events staged" theory. It may be way out there but that's how I see everything that Michael does - way out there, breaking all the frontiers and leaving gob-smacked people in his wake. If this whole thing has been a type of movie acted out on a large movie set, then there'd be no legal implications because no-one has broken any laws. Have any of you watched the U.K. series "Jonathan Creek"? Whenever I think of the hoax I think back to this series and how illusion is used to create a false sense of reality. Could Michael be employing similar techniques to create a false sense of reality in regard to the events of 06/25/09, plus the memorial, burial, and now the preliminary hearing?
Don't forget all those trash cans/garbage bins which appeared at each event <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Where did the idea that the room was sweltering first crop up? I don't remember anyone testifying to that (not that that means anything) but I do remember one of the paramedics saying the 'patient' was cold to touch. Late June in California? Was it simply a hot day?
No body was used. Dummy only. Autopsy is complete fabrication, as are all reports from UCLA.
Body temp is only ONE factor used when determining time of death. ONE, not ONLY.
But they didn't need to keep the room warm for a dummy. The paramedics couldn't recognize MJ and I remember they said that he looked like an old Asian guy <!-- s --><!-- s --> It's not too hard to find a dead person. So I go with the real body in the room theory.
No body was used. Dummy only. Autopsy is complete fabrication, as are all reports from UCLA.
Body temp is only ONE factor used when determining time of death. ONE, not ONLY.
But they didn't need to keep the room warm for a dummy. The paramedics couldn't recognize MJ and I remember they said that he looked like an old Asian guy <!-- s --><!-- s --> It's not too hard to find a dead person. So I go with the real body in the room theory.
Classic diversion. Warming the room would have zero effect on hiding the fact that someone had died hours or days earlier.
Zero.
No effect. We need to understand that forensic science is not that simple nor easily manipulated. There are many physical factors that are used to determine time of death, presence and progression of rigor, pressure and consistency of the fluid in the eyeballs, presence and location of digested food in the gut, and more... and the media is trying to make you believe that room temperature throws a wrench in the coroner's work. It doesn't and wouldn't.
As far as the testimony, the ambulance pic doesn't even come close to matching the description the EMTs have given. In any case, the EMTs have to be actors if the 911 call was fake, which is almost certainly the case. Real EMTs don't show up after you make a fake 911 call.
We need to move past these points, we are getting tripped up on easily debunked theories.
Comments
Also - Elissa Fleak has the words lies and fake in her name. Another coincidence?
I am asking who died that day,..or before.
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4410&start=0
Under normal conditions the body equals the room temperature after 24 hours. (Bouchut formula).
If there was a body, was the body of someone who died the day before and then placed in the room?
Yeah, I'm wondering if there could of been a dead body preplanned enough in advance to put in the room after rigor mortis had set in and past the 72 hr rigid time and placed there after it has gone limp again. Then heat up the body to seem like it was hours old. Does anyone know if there is a way to tell how long a body has been dead after the rigor mortis stage has come and gone?
Also wondering if it is possible to change the legal name of a corpse? Maybe they had the dead bodies name changed to Micheal Joesph Jackson so any testimony in court would be accurate, just a different MJ!! Anyone know if this is possible?
Under a normal temperature rigor mortis usually occurs within 3-4 hours after clinical death and rigor tends to have a full effect on 12 hours.
As an example; For the quality of the "meat" , the flesh, the meat is frozen immediately after animal sacrifice to increase the concentration of calcium outside and occurs a phenomenon called shortening by cold, by which the meat is reduced to one third of its size, and therefore a loss of water, vitamins, minerals and water-soluble proteins as well as the meat gets tough.
Wasn´t "Michaels body" reported as small, frail, tiny and little weight? <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I am not saying that a human body was shrank 1/3 of its original size, but what if.....a frozen body was used?
I am about to puke here <!-- s
I think this is more about the donation program to UCLA.
Maybe there is a deal for a body donated to UCLA ?
The article title "Jackson Time of Death a Mystery" is my main take from this re-direct!
All we know for sure is that the time of death is a mystery because nobody seems to know or want to say anything about it!
And reading between the lines, I am just getting TS message as Michael time of death is a mystery because he is alive (and let's not forget that He is the ultimate man of Mystery <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> )!
We can theorise as much as we want about a body or no body but i don't think we have any facts to enlighten our "investigation".
I also thought that a corpse was used, this corpse happened to be male and sufficiently thin to pass for MJ and have been preserved sufficiently well so that experienced doctors would not questioned its "authenticity". This same corpse would also have needed to be injected the relevant drugs so that to provide valid autopsy results! ... and the associated lies to authenticate the corpse!
And as the whole numerology is based on specific date and even times, this corpse would have needed to be available just in time!
Thinking about it now! It just seems to be too far fetched! then did he used a dummy and if so which type of dummy? Could he have commissioned some work by Gunter von Hagens/others to create a "semi-human" dummy which could fool experienced medics, more so if Murray was interfering and conveniently keeping them away?
Could then the coroner have been paid off to fake the autopsy or a different corpse used at UCLA?
Or is the whole event staged, including the preliminary hearings and possible trial, and done with the federal government "blessings"? But this really does not fit well with the NWO message... and could place significant restrictions on what can or cannot be done!
With L.O.V.E
... when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time.
TS said:
So from this point of view, I get that there was a real human body in that room who was dead for more than an hour. And that was definitely NOT Michael.
Yep I agree.
Also added to this, remember the 911 call...there was NEVER a name of a person mentioned.....just that it was a "gentleman who was not breathing".
No body was used. Dummy only. Autopsy is complete fabrication, as are all reports from UCLA.
Body temp is only ONE factor used when determining time of death. ONE, not ONLY.
I'm with the "whole events staged" theory. It may be way out there but that's how I see everything that Michael does - way out there, breaking all the frontiers and leaving gob-smacked people in his wake. If this whole thing has been a type of movie acted out on a large movie set, then there'd be no legal implications because no-one has broken any laws. Have any of you watched the U.K. series "Jonathan Creek"? Whenever I think of the hoax I think back to this series and how illusion is used to create a false sense of reality. Could Michael be employing similar techniques to create a false sense of reality in regard to the events of 06/25/09, plus the memorial, burial, and now the preliminary hearing?
Don't forget all those trash cans/garbage bins which appeared at each event <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But they didn't need to keep the room warm for a dummy. The paramedics couldn't recognize MJ and I remember they said that he looked like an old Asian guy <!-- s
Classic diversion. Warming the room would have zero effect on hiding the fact that someone had died hours or days earlier.
Zero.
No effect. We need to understand that forensic science is not that simple nor easily manipulated. There are many physical factors that are used to determine time of death, presence and progression of rigor, pressure and consistency of the fluid in the eyeballs, presence and location of digested food in the gut, and more... and the media is trying to make you believe that room temperature throws a wrench in the coroner's work. It doesn't and wouldn't.
As far as the testimony, the ambulance pic doesn't even come close to matching the description the EMTs have given. In any case, the EMTs have to be actors if the 911 call was fake, which is almost certainly the case. Real EMTs don't show up after you make a fake 911 call.
We need to move past these points, we are getting tripped up on easily debunked theories.