Thank you for the link wishingstar. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original<!-- m --> This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
First of all, congratulations to everyone—you have been doing an excellent job on the 2-26 thread investigation! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Second, today is graduation; it’s now time to take this investigation to the next level. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> Third, today is March 9—which is the two year anniversary of the amazing bull market rally that is still going, and which I related to God and the hoax a year ago in Update #4 (4-33). <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Fourth, speaking of update #4, that was my most detailed numerology post; and #4a was posted one year ago today (CA time), which was six months after 9-9-09. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: --> And fifth, speaking of numerology, it’s now time to start looking at how numerology unlocks and explains some of the hows of the hoax (in addition to explaining the when and why, which I have already discussed in great detail).
The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax. Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Or did MJ use actors dressed like paramedics? Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
These and similar questions are now the focus of investigation. Yes, we have already discussed these things to some extent; but it has not been the focus before now. You may continue discussing the ambulance photo, if you want; and please keep that discussion in the proper thread {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053}.
Of course the ambulance photo is part of the evidence related to the paramedics, so the photo will still be discussed somewhat in this thread; but try to remember the focus of discussion in this thread. When it’s time to graduate again, I will start another thread with the focus of who or what (if anything) went to the hospital on the stretcher in the ambulance. We might need to discuss this a little now, but it’s not the focus yet; so let’s see what we can establish about the paramedics, before we focus on that aspect.
... This is why I started our investigation process with the ambulance photo; now we know that it was planned and staged in advance, so we have a good platform upon which we can build our next level of investigation.
Please remember to use common sense, in addition to forensic investigation and raw data analysis. For example: if the ambulance photo was staged before 6-25-09, why bother bringing the ambulance to Carolwood Drive—just to take a photo of things inside the ambulance? Why not stage the photo elsewhere, and indoors, where there would be a very low risk of the wrong people seeing what is going on? Also keep in mind the goals of the hoax; common sense should tell us that the only ones in on the hoax are those who need to know about it, in order to accomplish the goals. Why would MJ spend tons of money—and greatly increase the risk of someone letting the cat out of the bag too soon—just to have dozens or hundreds of people in on the hoax, who don’t need to be in on it?
Finally, just like last time, I may play “DA” (devil's advocate)—and try to debunk things that are true, just to keep you on your toes! Enjoy the ride!!
I don’t know how to start working out if the paramedics are ‘in on it’ or not, without addressing the ambulance issue. I said in a previous post that the photos displayed of the ambulance at UCLA do not match (which they don’t). Can light reflections hit the doors in such a way to make the white letters ‘para...’ on a red background change in appearance to be red letters on a white background? I think a photo at UCLA has been altered deliberately. Why? Maybe so that when we look at the ambulance that we saw leave the house (supposedly with a dying Michael Jackson) we will notice that it has no reflector - which then might make us notice the other differences between the two ambulances - the silver part at the tail, and the location of the word ‘Fire’ in relation to the compartment at the top.
The photo of the ambulance leaving the house that was posted by mdc is a better view of the differences and can be found in the Index page.
It's probably just an optical illusion with the angles and everything but the ambulance in the "proof" photo looks longer to me than the one at the hospital.
OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address.
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved. mmm Still thinking...
Elsa wrote: OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved. mmm Still thinking...
I would imagine that the starline bus has a regular schedule and probably goes by the Carolwood house around the same time(s) everyday. I think the ambulance and firetrucks at Carolwood were timed to be there around the same time on June 25th, so there would be genuine witnesses that something was happening at MJ's house.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here. It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me. I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much! God Bless you Michael!!!
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
I focused on the pictures of the inside of the ambulance. It looks like stuff is placed on the opposite side,seems like the other side of the mirror.I know I am probably wrong I think maybe I just focused to hard on the picture... <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> .lol
I think we should keep the discussion of the ambulance picture in the TIAI february 26 thread, and continue here with the paramedics and their involvement.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
JEMS.com -- There are some interesting stories and links related to the EMS response to Michael Jackson's cardiac emergency on Thursday.
TMZ is reporting that first arriving responders felt that Jackson was dead on arrival, but Jackson's personal doctor would not permit them to pronounce him dead.
The 911 called was released Friday afternoon with the caller reporting that Jackson was on a bed, not breathing and that a doctor was already attempting CPR. The caller says repeatedly Jackson was not responding to anything. "We have a gentlemen here, who needs help ... he's not breathing, we're trying to pump but ... he's not breathing." the caller says, not identifying Jackson by name. "He's unconscious."
"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."
"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."
TMZ's report said there was evidence someone had been performing CPR for "quite some time" and possibly evidence of Lidocaine being administered. "He's pumping on his chest, but he's not responding to anything," the caller says as the 911 operator indicates help is on the way and instructs the caller to move Jackson from the bed to the floor.
Several videos and photos of the EMS units in action have been circulating online, including the video below of LAFD's Medic 71 and its Engine Company transporting the scene.
Oddly, at the end of the video, a bus full of tourists seeing star's homes drives by and is held up as the ambulance leaves the scene. Video shot by those tourists is posted on TMZ.com as well.
One of the most graphic photos showed up early on Entertainment Tonight's Web site, showing EMS crews working on an intubated Jackson in what appears to be the back of the paramedic unit. (Link Here -- Note this is a graphic photo OF a patient We are providing a link to this photo as it has appeared on major media for the last 24 hours). Based on other video, the photo was likely taken as the unit backed out of the driveway.
In the photo, medics can be seen doing compressions and ventilating Jackson. While this is an extreme case, it is always important to remember that cameras are everywhere now and while you may protect your patient's privacy, the public (and media) may not.
The Associated Press reported that medics tried to resuscitate Jackson for nearly three-quarters of an hour, then rushed him to the hospital, where doctors continued to work on him.
As for the doctor, he is being sought for questioning but is not a suspect in any wrongdoing at this point, according to multiple media reports. The Jackson family and others had been reported as being concerned about a possible overdose of prescription drugs. An autopsy was underway Friday.
Our friends at STATter911.com note that the pictures circulating of Medic 71 are making it the most famous ambulance in the world.
911 Call in Michael Jackson Death Released
By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON
Associated Press Writer
LOS ANGELES -- A 911 caller seeking help for Michael Jackson told an emergency operator that only a personal physician had seen what happened, and an ambulance was urgently needed because resuscitation efforts weren't working.
The Los Angeles Fire Department on Friday released a redacted audio recording of the call made Thursday by a person who only referred to Jackson as a 50-year-old man. It appeared that a mention of the phone number was deleted from the recording.
"I need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir," the caller said urgently but politely. "We have a gentlemen here that needs help and he's not breathing yet. He's not breathing and we need to _ we're trying to pump him, but he's not, he's not."
The caller reported that Jackson was on a bed and the emergency operator began to instruct him to do CPR, but stopped when the caller said that the personal physician was there.
"Oh, OK. We're on our way there. If your guy is doing CPR and you're instructed by a doctor, he's a higher authority than me. And he's on the scene," the 911 operator said.
The operator asked if anyone witnessed what happened.
"No, just the doctor, sir, the doctor was the only one there," the caller said.
"Did he see what happened?" the operator asked.
"Doctor, did you see what happened, sir?" the caller asked someone in the room. Only an urgent mumbling can be heard on the recording.
"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.
Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
Anna, we have linked (and clarified that the photos are graphic) to a photo that is already very widely posted across the internet. This site is for EMS professionals, not the general public ... and the takeaway should be that the public is always watching (and taking photos) ... in this case through a closed ambulance door/window. There are lessons to be learned for all. There is value in understanding that even when crews think they are not being watched, recorded, etc. even on the most routine call, in these times they should expect that anything can end up online.
(Note: User appears to have removed original comment about link to the photo taken inside Medic 71)
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Anne Marsh Permalink Reply by Anne Marsh on June 26, 2009 at 3:26pm
Please don't be so naive.
Anna Bonner said:
I am really quite saddened that this forum of professionals would contribute to the distribution of photos of a patient. If this were to happen to any of our own patients, we would be outraged. Really JEMS? I thought you were better than this.
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Anna Permalink Reply by Anna on June 26, 2009 at 3:35pm
You do realize I removed that because it has my name on it. Thanks for reposting though. I just think it is wholly unprofessional and unethical. Just because others are posting it, doesn't mean you need to. You can make your point that people are always watching without providing access to the pictures.
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the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 3:57pm
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:01pm
Sadly there are cameras everywhere now. People use them for all types of reasons. Which means we all need to be vigilant while working not only for our own protection but that of our patient. I don't agree that it was unprofessional for JEMS to post a link to the picture that is wide spread on the net. We would have found it anyway. If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.
I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?
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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:11pm
Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!
the Happy Medic said:
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
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JEMS Web Chief Permalink Reply by JEMS Web Chief on June 26, 2009 at 4:15pm
We've added some additional information in the story from LAFD's medical director.
Good point on both sides of the photo debate. The entire situation is what is great -- and bad -- about the Web.
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Squishymedic Permalink Reply by Squishymedic on June 26, 2009 at 4:27pm
Is it me? Or does the 911 operator's professionalism needs a little tweeking? Not the best operator I've ever heard.
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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 4:37pm
Dawn Burrows said:
If it was unprofessional then you could make the argument that all pictures of patients both critical and non were unprofessional to publish. I don't think that this was published with malicious intent but in an effort to educate which is what JEMS is in the business of doing.
Sure. I'll make the argument that publishing pictures of patients outside of educational materials is unethical without written consent. Just because it's widely available doesn't mean it should be published. In riot situations, if everyone is else is looting and the like, does that all of a sudden make it ok? When programs like TLC's Trauma or Paramedics tape patients, consent is given before those video are published.
What educational material is being passed on by the video of an ambulance backing out of a driveway or linking to a picture of Jackson being ventilated via ETT?
I am more curious about the doctor on scene and some reports that the doctor "made" the paramedics continue to work him even though they wished to pronounce him deceased on the scene. I have the authority to pronounce patients on scene without a doctor consult. And a doctor on scene doesn't have the ability to dictate my care unless I work under his direction. But I am on the other side of the country. Are the laws in CA very different? Did the medics on scene have an obligation to work as the physician on scene dictated or was it more of a decision to reduce friction on scene?
LA County EMS protocols:
Cardiac arrest:
(step 13 under asystole/PEA and step 21 for V-fib/Pulseless V-tac) If resuscitative efforts are unsuccessful, consider base contact for pronouncement.
<!-- m -->http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/ManualsProt ... FTP-CA.pdf<!-- m -->
Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 4:46pm
Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:
1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.
2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.
3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.
4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.
5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.
6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.
Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.
Let's learn instead......
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Dawn Burrows Permalink Reply by Dawn Burrows on June 26, 2009 at 4:56pm
Hey Joe Thanks for posting those links. I always appreciate the ability to learn what it is like somewhere else. I stand by my position that it was not unprofessional to post that link. With the intent to educate us on how easy it can be for some people to violate the inside of our trucks, I think JEMS was within their rights and we should take it as lesson learned.
Skip,
I am not sure if you are referring to my posts or not. If so I never intended for the impression that I was critizing the medics. We all make difficult decisions while in the course of our jobs. I don't fault them for any of the decisions that were made. I may have made some of the same ones if put in their place. I was more curious about the role that an on scene doctor can play in the decision making processes and what the rules in CA were. Joe was nice enough to clear those up for me.
Skip Kirkwood said:
Heaven help our profession! The level of whining and hypercriticality in this post take it to a new level.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, how about assuming (before you express your outrage) that:
1. The medics involved are professionals and did the best they could under the circumstances.
2. Circumstances, including celebrity, make things difficult.
3. When a person puts themselves in the public domain, they have a lesser expectation of privacy anyway.
4. Somebody took a picture - probably not an EMS person.
5. Once the picture is in the public domain, it's there. You can't un-ring the bell.
6. JEMS is here to educate us, about whatever goes on in our industry.
Yowzer! We are like a pack of jackals with a crippled wildebeast! Tear 'em to shreds without knowing all the facts.
Let's learn instead......
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Jerry Permalink Reply by Jerry on June 26, 2009 at 5:02pm
I took a class at an EMS Today conference (in San Diego and there were 65 attendees!). One of the presenters was an attorney by the name of Jack Ayers from Dallas(?). He made the point that when the feces strikes the oscillating device, rule one is "Speak first, Speak Fast, it is the only thing EVERYBODY (his emphasis) will remember." He added," Know what you are talking about."
Even in this topic seems like good advice to me. . .
Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:04pm
Skip:
1, 2, 4: I agree with.
3: I agree with, to a point. Maybe it's because I grew up in So Cal, but I honestly couldn't give two units of fecal material about celebs. They may have a lesser expectation of privacy, but you still see medical staff getting in trouble for accessing medical files of celebs and for the release of information.
5: So what? There was a case in Orange County, CA almost 3 years ago where a teenager 'borrowed' (can't think of a good term and I don't want to go with the connotation of "stole") her father's Porshe, and promptly crashed it into a concrete toll booth at an extremely high rate of speed. Two California Highway Patrol (CHP) leaked rather graphic photos of the incident. I would make the same argument that it would be unethical for JEMS to publish pictures of that accident as part of a "Girl borrows Porshe and dies in a horrible crash" piece. Now something along the lines of 'Be careful taking pictures on scene' with one of the non-graphic pictures accompanying the article would be completely different.
6. How is Michael Jackson dying news worthy in an EMS context? Seriously, a two sentence blurb about cameras and privacy doesn't really cut it.
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Skip Kirkwood Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 26, 2009 at 5:39pm
3. The medical staff shouldn't do that - it's a violation of oh so many things. Not the point here. These were lay-person photos. Celebs expect their lives to be invaded by the public, the paperazzi, etc.
5. Again, shame on the CHPs - profssionally inappropriate. Graphic? Non-graphic? Matter of judgment. Me, I don't consider a pix of a guy being resuscitated to be graphic. But then again, for 30+ years I've been in an environment (EMS) where every possible injury, illness, body part and function are discussed over coffee and donuts.
6. The physician-on-scene issues and M71 issues are interesting, and perhaps called to more attention by the fact that involved a celebrity. Gotta start somewhere - if JEMS took the time to make every story firmly educational, they would be forever trumped by someone else's reporting.
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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 5:47pm
5. I agree that the picture of Jackson is not graphic at all. The Orange County picture, on the other hand, is something that you would see on the shock style websites.
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the Happy Medic Permalink Reply by the Happy Medic on June 26, 2009 at 6:32pm
Imagine Medic 71 declares, under protocols to terminate reciscitative efforts, or not begin them, again under protocols, they have to await ME arrival for chain of custody. Now imagine M71 trapped in that litle cul de sac/driveway/neighborhood as the press arrive and swarm, as they always do. The UCLA Medical Center (not every little ER, I know) has their own police force and security staff able to establish a perimiter and handle the barrage of media and onlookers.
I think a more important topic of discussion in the JEMS forum would be about dealing with "celebrity" and how to help these folks remain just as anonymous as the rest of us. If these were photos of my mother online intubated I would be fuming mad, we all should be at this blatant intrusion into someone's privacy, public figure or not.
We all know clearly from the Trooper vs EMT video that cameras are everywhere.
I have seen no evidence the folks working the rigs that day took any photos and I hope we never learn who they were, for their sakes.
Dawn Burrows said:
Happy do you really think moving the body of a person of that stature is a really good idea? I would think that it would be more secure behind the gates of his home, inside and away from a bus load of tourists and paprazzi. Who as we have seen will go to any lengths to get a picture or clip. He could have been moved the ME's office on a gurney and covered. then all they would have gotten was pictures of the body bag and not the indignity of having CPR preformed for all the world to see. They weren't getting past those gates or those guards. The average ER is not very secure at all. No matter what they do to try and lock it down. The moving just allows for more picture taking. Hmm You have me thinking this will make a good blog post!
the Happy Medic said:
Let's all remember that if I posted a photo similar to this anywhere online I would be fired and sued. This is unprofessional by the photographer and the media who choose to show it. I think having a link to it in this forum is simply hitching the cart to the publicity show.
I personally think moving a patient of this stature out of the home and into a more secure location, like the hospital, was a scene safety decision, and a good one.
But links to something like this on JEMS connect I think brings the forum down a notch. Will it also be the cover photo for the next JEMS magazine?
My 2 cents
Happy Medic
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EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 7:16pm
To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....
With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.
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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 26, 2009 at 9:17pm
EMSismyLife:
My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: <!-- m -->http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/<!-- m -->
The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.
Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.
EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 26, 2009 at 9:31pm
Joe, thanks for the links. I would think with these features out there..... especially the Opaque window... that would be something that areas with high celebrity concentration would use as an added form of security & privacy for both the pt & the crew. Although I don't feel the picture of Jackson that was published was of any fault to the crew but I would HATE to see them come under fire for the photos. (Even if it didn't happen with the Jackson case but the possibility of another celeb in the future)
Joe P. said:
EMSismyLife:
My current company has two of the three ambulances outfitted with graphics over the rear windows similar to what is seen here: <!-- m -->http://www.customautotrim.com/window-graphics/<!-- m -->
The graphic is white (matches the base color of the ambulance) with a blue star of life in the middle. Graphics like this would work perfectly in So Cal since the one downside I've had working with them is that the rear windows become blocked when ever wet. Other than that, I've had no problems looking out the windows either when in the back or when driving.
Also, several manufacturers, notably Horton, have started equipping the side windows with liquid crystal technology that allows the windows to be made opaque with a throw of a switch.
The Cannulator Permalink Reply by The Cannulator on June 27, 2009 at 5:40am
So what is the purpose of this thread then? I'm lost.
As for the public domain, celebs do leave themselves open to ridicule and exposure. However, there are enough sites to debate the hypothetical, remember the star and so on Facebook.
This is the time for EMS to show some leadership and perhaps just shut up about the whole case until some concrete details are known, and then a more realistic discussion can take place. if anything right now remember, you never know who is watching.
And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.
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John Dillon Permalink Reply by John Dillon on June 27, 2009 at 9:24am
One thing we need to remember with photos, is if I respond to a call as an EMS professional, the patient deserves, and frankly the law requires confidentiality. In regards to the post about being fired you are correct, and you should be severely disciplined if you took a photo like this and posted while on duty. However, if I was Joe Public, I can take any photo I want as long as I do so legally. And essentially as long as I am not on private property, I can take a photo of anything I want, even something on private property as long as it is viewable from public property. There are some exception, but this photo, sadly is totally legal. And to publish it? Well we now see images all the time of victims of violence, wars, posted all over the place and on many media sites, and quite frankly with even more detail. It is the world we live in, and it is a wake up call to everyone, just ask the Oklahoma Trooper this, always assume someone is watching. I could argue that this image, even as some people are not happy with it, can serve to show that the EMS crew in this case was just not "Ambulance Drivers", transporting a body, they where delivering advanced level care. Photos create emotion, that is why they are used. We may not always like it, but in this case it was not only legal, it was tame compared to some the images I saw this past week many national news sites.
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Joe Paczkowski Permalink Reply by Joe Paczkowski on June 27, 2009 at 11:33am
Legal and ethical are two different concepts.
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Mark Case Permalink Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 12:47pm
Please forgive me but, they do make an option on ambulances that the windows be operated by a switch becomes privacy glass make the inside non-visible to the public. it has to asked for when ordering new ambulance. don't see why lafd would not have this due to having celebs being transported by them..
EMSismyLyfe said:
To somewhat stay on topic of JEMS purpose for posting this story with the link that cameras are everywhere at anytime and photos can be taken by civillians, media, paparrazzi, whomever... whenever.... I ask this question....
With all the designs we take into consideration with ambulance building. With all the safety features, etc that are considered when designing/ordering/buying an ambulance.... can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass. I would think that would protect celebrities from media, paparrazzi or whomever is after a picture in an unfortunate time, such as evidenced in the link. And not only celebrities, but I work in a county next door to our own Skip Kirkwood that is riddled with gangs, violence, shootings and stabbings.... I would think it'd also protect the Medics inside of the ambulance from those looking in. I've been in a situation where the ambulance was surrounded by bystanders on the scene of a gang related shooting and the truck was actually being rocked... our sideboards were being rode on by anger raged people, our tailgate, anywhere they could get. Police couldn't get them all off.... we were being directed by PD to just keep in motion and don't stop. It was really an out of control scene, but that's the gangs here and how they can act. Retalliation towards EMS & Fire that transported and aided in saving a shooting victim has been threatened to us by them seeing who transported the victim. I would think a one-way window would be a means of protection and privacy both. Any ideas on it? Pros? Cons? I'm interested in others feedback on this idea.
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EMSismyLyfe Permalink Reply by EMSismyLyfe on June 27, 2009 at 3:05pm
Mark, I now know they do. Someone posted a link yesterday that showed who makes it and how it works. I'm not involved with the ordering/outfitting of our trucks so I was not aware if it was an option or not. I know our trucks don't have them but it would sure be a nice safety feature! I am like you tho, LAFD knows they transport celebs and they know of the paparazzi craze there and I would think that would be an option they'd want to have. I also think it would be a good idea in cities that the celebs are known to frequent IE: Miami, NYC, Atl, Chicago, Vegas... just to name a few. We just had Orlando Bloom and a few other celebs here filming a movie and it became a big hoorahhh for people to flock to where he was rumored to be at the time. They obviously go to the smaller cities & towns, too but I don't think it's as much of a security issue/worry about photogs, etc as in the bigger cities where celebs are known to frequent.
I'd be interested to know just how much more the opaque windows are in comparisson to regular windows. It'll be a little bird I will be putting in our Directors ear for our next ambulance (which sadly won't be for a long while with the budget restraints.)
Reply by Mark Case on June 27, 2009 at 3:59pm
the ambulance company next town over has them and they used them on a domestic case to hide the woman from her husband. they turned out all the lights inside them hit the switch for the windows and got her out of there and her husband never knew it. So please share this little bit of evidence to put it in for your next ambulance. yes it does work.
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Dave Andrus Permalink Reply by Dave Andrus on June 30, 2009 at 12:36pm
"can the side door window and the back door windows not be made of a one-way mirrored type glass? Not particularly a mirror on the outside, I can see the dangers of the sunlight hitting that just right and "blinding" other drivers on the road, but a type of tinted one way glass."
Great idea... even if only a "limo-tint" I think it would be an idea worth incorporating. I too have had situations in which angry people outside the truck were trying to look into the truck, and can immediately see the safety value of such an improvement, as well as discouraging the "morbidly curious". Additionally, what about designing an easy-to-incorporate retrofit for existing ambulances (for example, the window-films).
I would love to see an upgrade like that become a standard feature on our ambulance/engine fleet.
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Michoel Bloom Permalink Reply by Michoel Bloom on July 6, 2009 at 9:45pm
Horton, has the best privacy windows on the market for Ambulances, you push a button and the window instantly goes opaque. This should be a more common feature for ambulances. This isn't the first, and unfortunately, won't be the last time the media videos through a window. (remember britney Spears?)
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the messages about my mom. Through this whole process I have revisited much of my personal pains in life. It's one of the things that kept me from joining this forum at first. However, when I saw how much you supported each other with things like this.....I knew I'd be ok here. The subject of death is truly painful for most people...naturally. I truly appreciate the sweet words and love. If going to the dark places of my heart, helps this investigation...I'll go.
Thank you again from the very bottom of my heart.
Wishingstar
Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here. It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me. I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much! God Bless you Michael!!!
I have chills navibl.......thank you for sharing that. It was so heart-warming, indeed. Though, I am very sorry to hear of your loss, I am grateful to hear how you have dealt with things. Sounds like your mother was an amazing person.....what a sweetheart. Thank you so much, navibl. You are a blessing!
Have a beautiful day!
LOVE
The picture is of the station office, I guess? What gets me are the photos on the wall. Can anyone zoom in on them.......sorry for just a link....... <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Blessings!
Wishingstar and Navibl, I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my mother suddenly many years ago when I was 21, and some aspects of the hoax do bring me back.
Wishingstar and Genafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
About that pancake breakfast, I’ll bet MJ gave that fire station 71 a hefty donation, perhaps even paid for the event.
Thanks for the link, 2good2btrue. You put together some good things on that thread that I recommend others check out. "
This is the topic about all the same people, acting out the same roles...
RunFaYaLife, very interesting discussion by emergency medical insiders. Just some things that caught my eye. They talk a lot about many people having cameras (yet only Ben's cameraman took a pic) and no EM person said it was wrong person. Somehow paps also took a pic of Britney Spears (helps us compare shots through tinted window).
"We're on our way. It's less than a mile away from Cedars," the operator said, referring to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.
Paramedics, however, took Jackson to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead.
Wonder why?
And perhaps realise that every thread here can be read without being a member. Which is really pretty bloody stupid.
No privacy now-a-days! <!-- s --><!-- s --> We sure manage to get our eyes everywhere, nothing hidden with MJDHI.
Wishingstar and Ginafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Actually I remember not very much from high-school, when the comunists were torturing us with high mathematics !! Glad those days are gone <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I hated it, but I still remember the formula of k-combinations of n <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I never knew I'll use it 20 years later to determine Michael Jackson's chances of being alive after he died <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Thank you for the link wishingstar. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original<!-- m --> This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
Why is that guy (the guy who is holding up the coat next to the ambulance) holding the coat up to the ambulance when the patient was already wheeled out?
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
1.- The Thymus is not identified. [this report gets bizarre page by page, apparently the coroner was not able to find the thymus, so the dead body is missing his thymus. The thymus is a specialized organ of the immune system. In lupus patients the whole immune system becomes over active attacking the body’s tissues & organs. However in HIV AIDS patients the thymus will be damaged to the point that it cannot be identified in the body. Another cause for missing the thymus is a very rare birth defect called the Digeorge Syndrome, however people suffering from this syndrome have certain facial features that make them stand out, very much similar to Down Syndrome. We know Michael didn’t have Digeorge Syndrome, there’s no mention of the deceased body having HIV, so why is the thymus missing? I can’t find a medical explanation for it!!!!
It is worth mentioning that removal of Thymus is highly unconventional & dangerous, the only time that a surgeon might decide to remove a thymus is in infants with sever heart defects that require heart surgery, the thymus in these cases sometimes have to be removed in order for the surgeon to have an unobstructed access to the heart. however this is not the case in older children or adults. Another very rare case that requires removal of thymus, which again I insist is very rare & it's a tough choice for a surgeon to make, is if a patient is suffering from Myasthenia gravis. Myasthenia gravis is a neuro-muscular disease leading to severe fluctuation of muscles & weakness & fatiguability. Again not all the cases of Myasthenia gravis require removal of thymus. Removal of thymus bears sever neurological side effects & it is a contributing factor in death of HIV patients. So why is the body missing the Thymus?]
Unfortunately, I can tell you from personal experience, the removal of the Thymus is very dangerous....my mother passed from Myasthenia. She was incredibly weak afterwards, people did not recognize her in the end...I'm done....gotta go cry.
Love to all...............Wishingstar
Makes me think about "Bubbles" again, because the Thymus is often removed from monkeys and rats for medical experiments.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Just wondering...
Do you think the cabinet from the pictures match the cabinet from the video? Wouldn't that white border show up in the pictures?
Good catch! I'm glad somebody noticed this--it is one of the "secrets" that I have been planning on pointing out, if nobody found it. But I'm always glad when someone else finds it first. There is one more thing about this that I will include later, if nobody else gets it first.
TS, I was wondering what the other one more thing you were going to include. Did you write it to us already or someone else has found it or are you waiting for the ambulance research/discussion to end?
So far, I haven't seen anyone find the other thing on this. I'll give it a few more days for someone else to find it.
Thank you for the link wishingstar. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original<!-- m --> This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
thats what i said on my other replies...this 3rd paramedic looks like mj...
I am way stuck on this Pancake breakfast set of photos.....maybe I am just hungry, lol! However, the whole series is very interesting....take a look at this close up pic in daylight of the ambulance. I see white around the cases, I think:
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... f/Original<!-- m -->
Scroll through the set.....what do you guys think? There is also a photo of a guy in a fireman's jacket....Ben? In one shot, he is with a child, in another shot he is taking the picture with a huge camera (like the one on Ben's desk I posted about).
TS_Comments wrote...The next level means that we are now going to shift the focus from the ambulance picture (whether it was real or fake, etc) to whether or not some or all of the paramedics are in on the hoax.
I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.
Did the actual paramedics pose for a staged ambulance shot before 6-25-09? Would the real paramedics publicly deny the ambulance photo, if it was not them in the picture (and they were not in on the hoax)?
No. No actual paramedics working for MJ, prior to June 25. No real paramedics on June 25. I think, now, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> it could have been an actual photo from a trade magazine, OR medical equipment catalog (which is why the EMTs are unidentifiable).
The "EMTs" in that photo probably are unaware to this day that the publication photo was used again and a photo of an "MJ masked model" or old photo of MJ was shopped in.
It would not be required to notify or gain a signed release from these guys, as their faces will still not be shown and they were not being asked to pose again for any hoax. So, no, <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> they would not reveal the secret or the hoax as they were not privy to it.
(That answers your question, too, in color below, Gina <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> .)
In fact, if THAT trade mag photo was a staged photo as well, also using body models or actors posing as paramedics for the picture, the models probably haven't ever even looked back, read the magazine or seen the photo EVER, and would not be able to recognize it on CNN on that June 25th.
Was the ambulance photo staged with the actual #71 LAFD ambulance, or another one that looks about the same inside?
If it was a standard ambulance interior in a picture in a medical catalog or trade mag, as I propose, now, it cannot be the ACTUAL #71 LAFD one. Someone previously (a medic or EMT by vocation, I believe, I'm sorry <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> , I don't remember your name), on the Feb 26 thread stated that they are all pretty much alike.
In the 911 call they never said it was Michael Jackson but a gentleman of 50.
And he was admitted at UCLA under the name Soule Shaun.
The paramedics said they didn't recognize Michael Jackson, because there was an old frail man.
So one scenario would be this: another person died instead of Michael.
In this case nobody from the fire dep. or from the paramedics or from the hospital had to be in the hoax and everything that happened that day was for real, except the fact that the dying person was not Michael.
I would go for this
There is only one problem: Why the paramedics, if they are not in the hoax, didn't reveal that the ambulance pic is fake?
So, to recap:
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I feel that just to keep everyone honest and loyal, everyone in on this hoax is paid and contracted to silence, even friends. Key players involved in the live event on June 25 were paid actors, sworn to silence under penalty of prosecution.
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I now feel that NO closeup photos were taken live, NO inside ambulance photos, either----only long shots and shots placing characters in site and on scene. Photographers just went through the motions for drama's sake. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> And so that the world would "buy" the money shot ("yeah, we SAW the guy snap it, right through the side window, as the ambulance pulled away---wow!").
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I feel that the three 911 call versions I heard, were staged as well. AND done on "the other day". All faked. MJ is NOT going to jail, EVER, therefore he's NO WAY messing with the real 911 agency/ network at all. Pretty certain it is a felony. He is also NOT going to risk a mis-speak or slip up blowing the entire thing, LIVE, and there really is NO reason to cram yet another live production into June 25's schedule!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
A couple of thoughts:
Emergency attendants are very take charge confident people. I didn't hear such a personality on those recordings. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I even heard one guy who was "thrown" by the fact there was an M.D.on scene.
The other thing, I believe someone MUST have mentioned: if the call is disconnected, 911 will re-establish contact and remain on the line until ambulance has arrived. They NEVER hang up on an emergency, and they don't let YOU let go of them either!! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> All of this means that, as actors, everything they said that day is scripted, including all the stuff about "MJ's" appearing to not look like his expected self, looking like an 80 yr old man...We can't put stock in anything the MJ Players said. Every word came out of Michael Jackson's Fiendish Adventure kit. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
When MJ conceptualized this Thriller, he hinted it would be scary. He said he would give them a monster, if that's what everyone wanted to see. He is a Genius with emotional pushbuttons. I don't know about eveyone else, but the incongruous reports gave me heart stopping hope, that it wasn't MJ after all.Then they scared me to death, because I knew, one CAN go from 50 to 80, if one is tormented relentlessly, as MJ was... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Anyway, these are my latest theories
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I don't know if I am able to rationalize right now but we have big problemes with this issue of the paramedics.
I'm just stating here my dilema of the moment:
If the paramedics were actors and the ambulance a fake on June 25th, why the real 71 ambulance crue wouldn't say a thing that they weren't there that day?
If the paramedics were real and the ambulance was the real 71 on June 25th, why wouldn't they say the ambulance picture if fake, because we can clearly see MJ's face in it and they said they didn't recognize Michael?
So far none of the theories I can think about doesn't stand.
This thing about the paramedics not being able to recognize MJ always comes in the middle, contradicting the ambulance picture.
Let's say everything was for real and Michael died that day and he was in the ambulance. Still this doesn't solve the contradiction between the ambulance picture and the paramedics not recognizing MJ.
Comments
Thank you for the link wishingstar. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... F/Original<!-- m -->
This picture shows 2 men/paramedics from Fire station 71. Do you think maybe the black guy is the same one in the picture below? We only see the back of his head. The white guy posing in the picture (above) doesn't seem like the guy next to Alberto on the right. 3rd guy/paramedic is still suspect to me! lol
I think I may have identified the security so far as being Mike La Perruque (the guy with the mustache facing us), Alberto Alvarez (the guy with his back to us next to Murray), and who is the guy holding up his coat? Help please.
I don’t know how to start working out if the paramedics are ‘in on it’ or not, without addressing the ambulance issue. I said in a previous post that the photos displayed of the ambulance at UCLA do not match (which they don’t). Can light reflections hit the doors in such a way to make the white letters ‘para...’ on a red background change in appearance to be red letters on a white background? I think a photo at UCLA has been altered deliberately. Why? Maybe so that when we look at the ambulance that we saw leave the house (supposedly with a dying Michael Jackson) we will notice that it has no reflector - which then might make us notice the other differences between the two ambulances - the silver part at the tail, and the location of the word ‘Fire’ in relation to the compartment at the top.
I found the information I referred to in my first post in this thread. See this link for comparison photos of the ambulance leaving the house, with the ambulance at UCLA <!-- m -->[url=amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/]amhttp://arvenru.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/551/[/url]<!-- m -->).
The photo of the ambulance leaving the house that was posted by mdc is a better view of the differences and can be found in the Index page.
OK, I don’t have a theory yet, but I do think that understanding what's going on with the ambulances might be important to understanding what's going on with the paramedics. Was the fake exit of a fake ambulance filmed 'the other day' - perhaps garbage day which is Wednesday for that address.
If there had been NO other witnesses i'd be inclined to agree, but there were the tourists on the starline bus who saw this happening on june 25...
You're right. They would come forward and say they saw it on Wednesday - unless they're part of the hoax which would increase the number involved. mmm Still thinking...
I would imagine that the starline bus has a regular schedule and probably goes by the Carolwood house around the same time(s) everyday. I think the ambulance and firetrucks at Carolwood were timed to be there around the same time on June 25th, so there would be genuine witnesses that something was happening at MJ's house.
Wishingstar....I can feel your pain my Dear...I lost my Mother last June...she never told us how sick she was, it was a total shock, but we would sit and watch videos of Michael and talk about things that I would read here. It actually was comforting for me here after she was gone because she shared this adventure here with me. I would have never thought that God would use Michael to comfort me in a sudden loss of my mother. God is so good and Loves us so much! God Bless you Michael!!!
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I do not believe they were involved ...other than to do their jobs.
<!-- m -->http://connect.jems.com/forum/topics/mi ... 1#comments<!-- m -->
I have chills navibl.......thank you for sharing that. It was so heart-warming, indeed. Though, I am very sorry to hear of your loss, I am grateful to hear how you have dealt with things. Sounds like your mother was an amazing person.....what a sweetheart. Thank you so much, navibl. You are a blessing!
Have a beautiful day!
LOVE
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... uLs/Medium<!-- m -->
The picture is of the station office, I guess? What gets me are the photos on the wall. Can anyone zoom in on them.......sorry for just a link....... <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Blessings!
Wishingstar and Genafelicia, you must both be into mathematics. I asked my math student son to explain and he went into a whole description, over my head. <!-- s
About that pancake breakfast, I’ll bet MJ gave that fire station 71 a hefty donation, perhaps even paid for the event.
Thanks for the link, 2good2btrue. You put together some good things on that thread that I recommend others check out. " RunFaYaLife, very interesting discussion by emergency medical insiders. Just some things that caught my eye. They talk a lot about many people having cameras (yet only Ben's cameraman took a pic) and no EM person said it was wrong person. Somehow paps also took a pic of Britney Spears (helps us compare shots through tinted window).
Wonder why?
No privacy now-a-days! <!-- s
Actually I remember not very much from high-school, when the comunists were torturing us with high mathematics !! Glad those days are gone <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I hated it, but I still remember the formula of k-combinations of n <!-- s
I never knew I'll use it 20 years later to determine Michael Jackson's chances of being alive after he died <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Why is that guy (the guy who is holding up the coat next to the ambulance) holding the coat up to the ambulance when the patient was already wheeled out?
Can you at least give us help in the right direction...it's hard to know what were looking for when we have nothing to go on. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Makes me think about "Bubbles" again, because the Thymus is often removed from monkeys and rats for medical experiments.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Thank you TS. Blessings...
thats what i said on my other replies...this 3rd paramedic looks like mj...
<!-- m -->http://www.teamgoonphotos.com/Random-Ha ... f/Original<!-- m -->
Scroll through the set.....what do you guys think? There is also a photo of a guy in a fireman's jacket....Ben? In one shot, he is with a child, in another shot he is taking the picture with a huge camera (like the one on Ben's desk I posted about).
Blessings!
I believe ALL live June 25 paramedics were actors contracted for the hoax.
No. No actual paramedics working for MJ, prior to June 25. No real paramedics on June 25. I think, now, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> it could have been an actual photo from a trade magazine, OR medical equipment catalog (which is why the EMTs are unidentifiable).
The "EMTs" in that photo probably are unaware to this day that the publication photo was used again and a photo of an "MJ masked model" or old photo of MJ was shopped in.
It would not be required to notify or gain a signed release from these guys, as their faces will still not be shown and they were not being asked to pose again for any hoax. So, no, <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> they would not reveal the secret or the hoax as they were not privy to it.
(That answers your question, too, in color below, Gina <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> .)
In fact, if THAT trade mag photo was a staged photo as well, also using body models or actors posing as paramedics for the picture, the models probably haven't ever even looked back, read the magazine or seen the photo EVER, and would not be able to recognize it on CNN on that June 25th.
If it was a standard ambulance interior in a picture in a medical catalog or trade mag, as I propose, now, it cannot be the ACTUAL #71 LAFD one. Someone previously (a medic or EMT by vocation, I believe, I'm sorry <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> , I don't remember your name), on the Feb 26 thread stated that they are all pretty much alike.
So, to recap:
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I feel that just to keep everyone honest and loyal, everyone in on this hoax is paid and contracted to silence, even friends. Key players involved in the live event on June 25 were paid actors, sworn to silence under penalty of prosecution.
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I now feel that NO closeup photos were taken live, NO inside ambulance photos, either----only long shots and shots placing characters in site and on scene. Photographers just went through the motions for drama's sake. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> And so that the world would "buy" the money shot ("yeah, we SAW the guy snap it, right through the side window, as the ambulance pulled away---wow!").
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I feel that the three 911 call versions I heard, were staged as well. AND done on "the other day". All faked. MJ is NOT going to jail, EVER, therefore he's NO WAY messing with the real 911 agency/ network at all. Pretty certain it is a felony. He is also NOT going to risk a mis-speak or slip up blowing the entire thing, LIVE, and there really is NO reason to cram yet another live production into June 25's schedule!! <!-- s
A couple of thoughts:
Emergency attendants are very take charge confident people. I didn't hear such a personality on those recordings. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I even heard one guy who was "thrown" by the fact there was an M.D.on scene.
The other thing, I believe someone MUST have mentioned: if the call is disconnected, 911 will re-establish contact and remain on the line until ambulance has arrived. They NEVER hang up on an emergency, and they don't let YOU let go of them either!! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> All of this means that, as actors, everything they said that day is scripted, including all the stuff about "MJ's" appearing to not look like his expected self, looking like an 80 yr old man...We can't put stock in anything the MJ Players said. Every word came out of Michael Jackson's Fiendish Adventure kit. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s
When MJ conceptualized this Thriller, he hinted it would be scary. He said he would give them a monster, if that's what everyone wanted to see. He is a Genius with emotional pushbuttons. I don't know about eveyone else, but the incongruous reports gave me heart stopping hope, that it wasn't MJ after all.Then they scared me to death, because I knew, one CAN go from 50 to 80, if one is tormented relentlessly, as MJ was... <!-- s
Anyway, these are my latest theories
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I'm just stating here my dilema of the moment:
If the paramedics were actors and the ambulance a fake on June 25th, why the real 71 ambulance crue wouldn't say a thing that they weren't there that day?
If the paramedics were real and the ambulance was the real 71 on June 25th, why wouldn't they say the ambulance picture if fake, because we can clearly see MJ's face in it and they said they didn't recognize Michael?
So far none of the theories I can think about doesn't stand.
This thing about the paramedics not being able to recognize MJ always comes in the middle, contradicting the ambulance picture.
Let's say everything was for real and Michael died that day and he was in the ambulance. Still this doesn't solve the contradiction between the ambulance picture and the paramedics not recognizing MJ.