"ALLEGED VICTIM" ? MICHAEL J JACKSON

scorpionchikscorpionchik Posts: 2,669
edited January 1970 in General Hoax Investigation
PEARL J TWEETED THIS VIDEO FROM TMZ. THE LADY READS VERDICT CALLING MICHAEL 'ALLEGED' VICTIM ISTEAD OF PROVED VICTIM.... VERY ODD!<br /><br />http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-verdict-guilty/?adid=hero1

Comments

  • pepperpepper Posts: 558
    [size=14pt]Yes! She says "alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson"  "alleged date June 25, 2009"<br /><br />Here is video of the entire reading of verdict  (TMZ had a shortened version)<br /><br />http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/11/07/nr-sot-murray-trial-verdict.cnn[/size]
  • PureLovePureLove Posts: 5,891
    Yes, it is because there is NO victim at all.
  • JennieJennie Posts: 514
    I thought that was odd as well. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged<br /><br />I went to look for the definition of the word on wikipedia and this is what came up:<br /><br />An allegation (also called adduction) is a claim of a fact by a party in a pleading, which the party claims to be able to prove. Allegations remain assertions without proof, until they can be proved.[1]<br /> <br />Generally in a civil complaint a plaintiff alleges facts sufficient to establish all the elements of the claim and thus states a cause of action. The plaintiff must then carry the burden of proof and the burden of persuasion in order to succeed in the lawsuit.<br /> <br />A defendant can allege affirmative defenses in its answer to the complaint.<br /> <br />
  • Aidan_81Aidan_81 Posts: 382
    Anyone studying law here? From US?<br />Guess we should wait for Nov 29 when Judge<br />has his final word, maybe "alleged" is normally used term,<br />anyone watched any other recent US trials with conviction?<br />When I have time I'll try to clear this one, maybe something online, but better get comment from US law ppl if you know any.
  • gwynnedgwynned Posts: 1,361
    It is the criminal that is 'alleged', at least until guilt has been proven.  I guess they're saying the victim is alleged, because they haven't proven who that is yet!!!
  • mjj4ever777mjj4ever777 Posts: 1,467
    This shows you how the majority of Humanity have lost the ability to "think for themselves!!! Why hasn't anyone else picked up on this???? This is a Blatent attempt to open some eyes, but most can't see what is right in front of them!!!<br /><br />OH Michael...How do we break through to them?? Follow the path of LOVE... Love you guys!
  • scorpionchikscorpionchik Posts: 2,669
    Actually, the term "ALLEGED VICTIM" can be related to 'be proven beyond reasonable doubt" doctrine, which in the USA means prosecutor successfully proved, but it does not mean Murray killed Michael.<br />In the contrary, Casey Anthony was found NOT guilty, but it does not mean she did not kill her daughter but prosecutor failed to prove it.<br />In Nov. 29th will be CM sentencing how long he will be in prison; it should not change "ALLEGED" victim term to proven victim if that is a common term. But I doubt so.
  • stefy66stefy66 Posts: 30
    Alleged victim but....the toy is not alleged! Anyone has seen it in the court room yesterday?:-)))))
  • simalvessimalves Posts: 730
    Actually 'alleged' means that an event happened but there was no third witness to prove it. Just the victim and perpetrator. So the part that Michael died is not alleged, it is alleged that he is a victim, meaning that Conrad caused it.
  • _Anna__Anna_ Posts: 1,739
    on 1320755610:
    <br />Actually 'alleged' means that an event happened but there was no third witness to prove it. Just the victim and perpetrator. So the part that Michael died is not alleged, it is alleged that he is a victim, meaning that Conrad caused it.<br />
    <br /><br />But, I simply don't get it. In OJ Simpson was? In Casey Anthony was? In Casey Anthony no one saw the crime taking place and  her daughter wasn't called ALLEGED victim, was she?  Do you have an official statement, doc., to backup this?  You say the victim part is alleged - then if they don't know beyond a reasonable doubt that Murray killed him, why was he convicted? If Murray didn't cause it, how did they reach the GUILTY verdict?<br /><br /> I don't understand anymore<br />
  • StrangerInCaliforniaStrangerInCalifornia Posts: 459
    I believe the proper way to state it would be that Murray was the alleged perpetrator of acts of involuntary manslaughter against victim Michael Jackson. Although Murray would no longer be alleged perpetrator anymore since he was found guilty. There should NOT be an alleged victim or date if Michael were really dead.
  • wishingstarwishingstar Posts: 2,927
    The judge was the first one to first one to point this out.  When he opened the verdict envelope he said there was a typo.....a wrong date was written for the "alleged incident" it was written June 9, 2009 changed by juror #3 to June  25th, 2009.......(16 days difference 1+6=7) .......and that the juror had made "squiggly lines":<br /><br /> /><br />I didn't see this info posted....sorry if has already been pointed out.<br />What happened June 9th...I am a bit foggy, but it seems there was something....it's a familiar.  How is it they wrote 9th and not 25th....big difference......<br /><br />Blessings
  • gwynnedgwynned Posts: 1,361
    According to this ABC news report, the jury was not sequestered even during the admittedly short deliberations.  Really?????  NOW they're going to an undisclosed location?<br /><br />And, is there anyone on the planet who would not flinch at being proven to be the cause of the death of the King of Pop.  <br /><br />It's gotta be tough for ol' Diane Sawyer to know she's covering for a bunch of lies.  Not the best actor, but these have to be tough times for her.
  • paula-cpaula-c Posts: 7,221
    "Alleged "  It is said of something which is assumed as true, but may not be so
  • SouzaSouza Posts: 9,400
    I thought it's strange they name the victim at all. I have not heard before that they do that, they just refer to the count and don't name the specific victim. The addition of 'alleged' here should start ringing some bells for people, but I think that if Mike would have walked into that courtroom himself, saying it was all a hoax, they wouldn't even have noticed.

    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

  • simplymesimplyme Posts: 649
    on 1320712316:
    <br />PEARL J TWEETED THIS VIDEO FROM TMZ. THE LADY READS VERDICT CALLING MICHAEL 'ALLEGED' VICTIM ISTEAD OF PROVED VICTIM.... VERY ODD!<br /><br />http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/07/conrad-murray-verdict-guilty/?adid=hero1<br />
    <br /><br />When I heard the clerk say that I figured it would get you all going.  First, let me say that I taught for about six years and language was my primary focus.  My daughter says when she's taking a language related test that she's keeps thinking about the things I "pounded" into her head.  Second, Pearl Jr. is not the greatest example to listen to regarding anything language related.  She butchers the language and at times hurts my ears.  I have to say though that she seems to be a better lately.  Anywho - the word "alleged"  has many meanings aside from those that we hear regularly and are most familiar with ...that's a fact.
  • gwynnedgwynned Posts: 1,361
    Here is one definition of 'alleged.'  <br /><br />presumed: asserted but not yet proven to have taken place, have been committed, or be as described<br /><br />So, we can say the death has not been proven to have taken place.
  • Aidan_81Aidan_81 Posts: 382
    "Alleged victim" is normally used say before trial and before verdict.<br />I'm not sure it can be used after conviction/verdict.<br />That's why Nov.29 will be interesting.<br />I thought after jurors decided "guilty", the whole thing stops being "alleged",<br />but maybe it's verdict that actually changes "alleged victim" to just "victim" etc.<br />It's different in my country, so it's hard to judge.<br />Anyone from US with a relative who is attorney or maybe a law student?
  • _Anna__Anna_ Posts: 1,739
    Adrian, I don't know, but neither in OJ's trial, nor in Casey Anthony case, nor in any other case I went and watched on youtube I heard "alleged victim" while reading the verdict. It was "victim".
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    Alleged=not proven in a court of law.<br /><br />So MJ's death is not proven in a court of law, and his death occurring on 6/25/09 is not proven in a court of law either. Plain and simple, end of deliberations.<br /><br />Murray was convicted of manslaughtering someone who's death is only alleged. How's that for fucked up stuff the general public doesn't notice?
  • traceys_hometraceys_home Posts: 102
    on 1320861027:
    <br />Alleged=not proven in a court of law.<br /><br />So MJ's death is not proven in a court of law, and his death occurring on 6/25/09 is not proven in a court of law either. Plain and simple, end of deliberations.<br /><br />Murray was convicted of manslaughtering someone who's death is only alleged. How's that for fucked up stuff the general public doesn't notice?<br />
    <br /><br />You hit the nail on the head! Also, did anyone else notice that when HLN, played the trial on t.v., they always said "there's the Great Seal of the State of California, folks" during every single court beak? After I heard that over a hundred times, I noticed that the seal they showed on T.V. had 32 stars on it. So I paused the t.v. and counted the stars. The real Seal of California has 31 stars as it was the 31st state that became part of the union/USA.<br /><br />I just walked out of a courtroom yesterday (stupid traffic tickets  :cry:) and there were 31 stars on the seal behind the judges desk. This was not a real trial IMO!<br /><br />:mrgreen:
  • curlscurls Posts: 3,111
    Slightly off topic, but seeing as the seal with 32 stars has been brought up, does anyone know if anyone got a proper answer from the court when they were phoning about it last week?  Last I heard a nice lady was going to call back!
  • JennieJennie Posts: 514
    Another odd thing, they said "alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson"  BUT I just started reading Jermaine's book "You are not alone" and I just read last night that he said somehow it circulated that his middle name was Joseph  BUT that it was really Joe. /pull hair/  I would think that of all places, a court of law would have your name straight.<br /><br />And here's something else I'm aching to throw in here, Judge Pastor looked phony with his exagerated smilling all the time.    Smile for the camera!!  /judge/
  • Catherine23Catherine23 Posts: 29
    on 1320988718:
    <br />Another odd thing, they said "alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson"  BUT I just started reading Jermaine's book "You are not alone" and I just read last night that he said somehow it circulated that his middle name was Joseph  BUT that it was really Joe. /pull hair/  I would think that of all places, a court of law would have your name straight.<br /><br />And here's something else I'm aching to throw in here, Judge Pastor looked phony with his exagerated smilling all the time.    Smile for the camera!!  /judge/<br />
    <br /><br />I noticed the name as well! You would think for such a 'serious' trial on the death of MJ, they would use his correct, official name. I had not picked up on 'alleged' being used yet but will have another look later.<br /><br />Catherine23
  • DaphneDaphne Posts: 9
    Just compare this verdict to MJs > no alleged victim, no alleged date.<br />http://www.kqed.org/assets/pdf/news/mehserleverdict.pdf<br /><br />http://rumorfix.com/2011/11/exclusive-heres-the-document-that-sent-conrad-murray-to-jail/<br /><br />
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