Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.
HOLY CANOLLI! YOU NEED TO POST THIS IN EVERY THREAD SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT...You need to sent this to Diana_jean and all the other bloggers and ESPECIALLY to mjfanforeverandaday at you tube...here is one of her links! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH3vKU0azUc&feature=channel
We gotta get this out there and can you please show us ALL the corispondance...GREAT JOB!
you just reminded me of something.. i used to work in a care home an we had a resident or service user whatever you wanna call them... who died.. we wasn't allowed to touch them till the dr had declared them dead!!
my point is they was not there to witness the death but they had to declare the death before they could be removed from the home.. to the coroner / undertakers
therfore sign something..
i find this whole thing strange to say the least now when i think about it now!! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
you just reminded me of something.. i used to work in a care home an we had a resident or service user whatever you wanna call them... who died.. we wasn't allowed to touch them till the dr had declared them dead!!
my point is they was not there to witness the death but they had to declare the death before they could be removed from the home.. to the coroner / undertakers
therfore sign something..
i find this whole thing strange to say the least now when i think about it now!! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
That is exactly correct. A doctor must be called in to declare a patient dead. It's the law as well. I am too excited and happy. I wasn't really losing hope but I was getting restless I guess waiting for something else to be revealed or what have you. This whole email correspondence is making my brain pop. I am still stuck on the not needing to do a DNA test because they had his driver's license. WT-Fooey? Like someone aboved mentioned, if his family was there that's all the proof it was him they needed. I can't believe they needed to look at his DLs to say yep Michael Jackson died!
The paramedics were'nt supposed to have recognised him - they didn't even know who they were working on. If you believe that, you can believe they needed his DL to identify him. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Great news thanks for all of your hard work you people are so clever my brain is realy having trouble working all this out and keeping up with you many thanks a great adventure
am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Do you have a link of that and maybe a timestamp of where we should observe this?
am I supposed to feel like I have hypothermia and shaking all over? I'm not sure if I believe another person died as much as I believe the whole thing was faked. I really don't even believe that they did an autopsy, but, I think it was a fantastic question and either way I hope he answers it. I hope that he doesn't get an over load of emails now and not answer any more questions...
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Do you have a link of that and maybe a timestamp of where we should observe this?
Thanks.
I tried for an HOUR to find it on youtube and I couldnt find it ANYWHERE!!!! I'm going to look at the hoax video I saw it in and I will get back to you...
Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:2q606zes]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
Identification & Viewing "Contrary to popular belief, visual identification by family or friends is not usually necessary. Many methods are used to identify remains by the Coroner's Office. In most cases, photographic identification is all that is required. Occasionally, other methods such as fingerprints, tattoos, jewelry, X-rays are utilized for positive identification. We understand that family may want to view their loved one as soon as possible. It is recommended that this be done at the funeral home facility. We will work with funeral homes to insure this can be accomplished as quickly as possible."
With that said, it’s common to identify someone with their drivers licence. And family viewing is usually not necessary, this could have been used to the advantage of the hoax.
I SENT THE EMAIL BELOW TO CRAIG HARVEY..I HOPE HE ANSWERS IT....
Dear Mr. Harvey,
Let me start first with thanking you for always
responding to my questions on a timely and polite
manner.
What the speculation amongst us hoax believers is this
pure and simple…
Someone indeed died on June 25th, but that was NOT the real
Michael Jackson. We believe it to be a MJ impersonator
who was gravely ill, and died in MJ's place.
There are many aspects of this situation of Michaels
"death" that honestly don’t add up. As an Accountant
I look for things to balance and cross foot.
We believe an autopsy was indeed performed as has
been reported. However, how are we to be sure
of the identity of the man it was performed on. We are to
take the word of Latoya?The person that stood against her brother when he needed
her the most?
I am speaking for myself of course, but also for many other
fans out there. I am not a nut, but a well educated
52 yr old woman. I know when things don't add up.
All we are looking for is closure one way or the other
WHO died that day. Can you provide any assistance
in making that closure possible for us without
divulging any confidential secrets?
It would be greatly appreciated, and maybe
our lives can move forward with a clear mind.
Thank again in advance for all your patience
and understanding you have shown.
Doreen Bilotto
Any answer yet? I am anxiously awaiting something. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
this is it i think!! it was posted on a similar thread last night.. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Hi Doreen,
I do not think that there is anything that I could say that would change anyone’s mind with respect to the physical status of Michael Jackson. If a person believes that he is alive, after everything that has transpired since that fateful date in June of 2009, then facts become irrelevant.
As I have said before, once the hold on the report is lifted (which could happen next week, next month or next December), I can speak for freely. I know what I saw, I know what I did and what my staff did, I know what we have been put through and will continue to go through. The same thing surrounds Elvis, the people that surrounded Elvis and the investigation that was done.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov">charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov</a><!-- e -->
this is it i think!! it was posted on a similar thread last night.. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Hi Doreen,
I do not think that there is anything that I could say that would change anyone’s mind with respect to the physical status of Michael Jackson. If a person believes that he is alive, after everything that has transpired since that fateful date in June of 2009, then facts become irrelevant.
As I have said before, once the hold on the report is lifted (which could happen next week, next month or next December), I can speak for freely. I know what I saw, I know what I did and what my staff did, I know what we have been put through and will continue to go through. The same thing surrounds Elvis, the people that surrounded Elvis and the investigation that was done.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov">charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov</a><!-- e -->
Hmmm, don't know what to make of this answer. I still feel like things are unanswered.
Thanks, Lisap, for the response. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I wan't to know why people with the truth skirt around hard answers...Why can't they come out and say.."HE IS DEAD" or "HE IS NOT DEAD" Why do they have to play these word games to mess with our heads? Dave Dave does the same thing on myspace. Just say it... The only thing I can think of, is they like the attention and notoriety and/or....they don't know what to say cause the death never happened!
Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:1rh3mcpb]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
This is my video and actually in one my most recent ones i did an entire part on this.. check it out
as for Mr.Harvey.. I've spoken with him many times.. hes very interesting.. Honest to a fault with some thing lol..I kinda like him <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Found it! Look at 1:26-1:28...Look up near his head...near the front. His left arm IS MOVING! It looks like his left forearm is up by his face and he moves it...It looks like he is brushing hair off his face scratching it or something under the sheet. YOU KNOW WHAT! I couldn't find this footage ANYWHERE on the Internet but here. All of them start with him already in the helicopter but NONE coming out the door. This man is alive under these sheets for sure!
[youtube:34g8kfsg]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
This is my video and actually in one my most recent ones i did an entire part on this.. check it out
as for Mr.Harvey.. I've spoken with him many times.. hes very interesting.. Honest to a fault with some thing lol..I kinda like him <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
sorry Justlettingyouknow...I saw how you wanted people to put where they got things from, especially when they used your stuff...I was so excited I finally found it that I forgot to put that it was from you...or maybe I did later...I don't remember...I always say how your vids are awesome and tell people to watch...one of the best. I'm glad I can finally tell you! Please forgive me *taking the walk of shame* Can you let us know some of the things you spoke to Mr. Harvey about? What sort of things was honest with?
I honestly don't think there is anything unusual about what craig harvey says. It seems as if he is just reiterating what the set of procedures are that a coroner must follow and did follow in this case. I posted the paragraph below under 'michael jackson's death certificate' originally but it has relevance here to i think. The link below actually corroborates everything harvey says even though the state is Florida.
It is also not necessarily unusual for Murray not to have signed, particularly if the cause of death is not obvious and not expected in his opinion. He is not obliged to sign the death certificate if the circumstances of death fall into the 406.11 category (see link pg 4 and 5). He does have a legal obligation to report circumstances that fall into this category. The Medical Examiner assumes jurisdiction and will sign the death certificate after investigating. Murray also cannot sign the certificate if he does not know the cause of death despite MJ being his patient. Also, by not signing the death certificate he is assuming not to have any knowledge of what killed MJ, thereby sticking to his story of 'I did not give Michael anything that should have killed him.'
Zilda quote 'One thing that has puzzled me from the beginning is that if MJ was "supposedly dead" when the paramedics arrived at the house (no life signs, and no responding to the CPR, signs of lividity and so on..) - then it should have been the coroner who transported him from the house, not the ambulance.'
Problem is Murray is a higher authority than the paramedics and he overruled them. It says in the affidavit that Murray 'assumed care from the paramedics'. If the paramedics wanted to declare him dead at the scene - which they can do - but Murray insisted they do CPR to the hospital then they will take instruction from Murray, as they did. What is slightly more intriguing is if there were clear obvious signs of death (lividity) in which resuscitation is futile, why did Dr.Cooper and her team continue the resuscitation effort at the hospital? I mean overruling a paramedic is one thing, but a team of doctors going against accepted guidelines doesn't make sense. Dr.Cooper would have assumed care from Murray once at the hospital, she would have made independent decisions as the chief ER doc.
'Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported'
They will not deliberately falsify the cause of death or make false statements on the certificate.
'It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.'
Dr. Murray already lied once at the hospital. The lying was already in full progress before the paramedics got there. It's a real shame that Murray's lying is making everyone search for the truth, some of it will be found and some of it will not.
i know it begins after 30 minutes i, wrote fully develop after 6 hrs - 12 hrs , in asphyxia it develps even earlier. and fix after 10 hrs , moving the body after that period indicates changing it from its original position .
i heard someone saying Frank Dileo told in one of his interview that doctors at ucla wanted to put mj on
ventilator ..
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH3vKU0azUc&feature=channel
We gotta get this out there and can you please show us ALL the corispondance...GREAT JOB!
you just reminded me of something.. i used to work in a care home an we had a resident or service user whatever you wanna call them... who died.. we wasn't allowed to touch them till the dr had declared them dead!!
my point is they was not there to witness the death but they had to declare the death before they could be removed from the home.. to the coroner / undertakers
therfore sign something..
i find this whole thing strange to say the least now when i think about it now!! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
That is exactly correct. A doctor must be called in to declare a patient dead. It's the law as well. I am too excited and happy. I wasn't really losing hope but I was getting restless I guess waiting for something else to be revealed or what have you. This whole email correspondence is making my brain pop. I am still stuck on the not needing to do a DNA test because they had his driver's license. WT-Fooey? Like someone aboved mentioned, if his family was there that's all the proof it was him they needed. I can't believe they needed to look at his DLs to say yep Michael Jackson died!
by the way, in the youtube footage, where they are moving MJ from the hospital roof top and loading him onto the helicopter, did anyone else see him move his arm near his face?
Do you have a link of that and maybe a timestamp of where we should observe this?
Thanks.
[youtube:2q606zes]
Look between 1:26 and 1:28...you're gonna freak like I did!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5JYTa4vg&feature=related
"Contrary to popular belief, visual identification by family or friends is not usually necessary. Many methods are used to identify remains by the Coroner's Office. In most cases, photographic identification is all that is required. Occasionally, other methods such as fingerprints, tattoos, jewelry, X-rays are utilized for positive identification. We understand that family may want to view their loved one as soon as possible. It is recommended that this be done at the funeral home facility. We will work with funeral homes to insure this can be accomplished as quickly as possible."
With that said, it’s common to identify someone with their drivers licence. And family viewing is usually not necessary, this could have been used to the advantage of the hoax.
Any answer yet? I am anxiously awaiting something. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Hi Doreen,
I do not think that there is anything that I could say that would change anyone’s mind with respect to the physical status of Michael Jackson. If a person believes that he is alive, after everything that has transpired since that fateful date in June of 2009, then facts become irrelevant.
As I have said before, once the hold on the report is lifted (which could happen next week, next month or next December), I can speak for freely. I know what I saw, I know what I did and what my staff did, I know what we have been put through and will continue to go through. The same thing surrounds Elvis, the people that surrounded Elvis and the investigation that was done.
Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
Department of Coroner
County of Los Angeles
1104 North Mission Road
Los Angeles, CA 90033
FAX (323) 224-3920
<!-- e --><a href="mailto:charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov">charvey@coroner.lacounty.gov</a><!-- e -->
Hmmm, don't know what to make of this answer. I still feel like things are unanswered.
Thanks, Lisap, for the response. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
What body lying on the ground, when?
This is my video and actually in one my most recent ones i did an entire part on this.. check it out
as for Mr.Harvey.. I've spoken with him many times.. hes very interesting.. Honest to a fault with some thing lol..I kinda like him <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
It is also not necessarily unusual for Murray not to have signed, particularly if the cause of death is not obvious and not expected in his opinion. He is not obliged to sign the death certificate if the circumstances of death fall into the 406.11 category (see link pg 4 and 5). He does have a legal obligation to report circumstances that fall into this category. The Medical Examiner assumes jurisdiction and will sign the death certificate after investigating. Murray also cannot sign the certificate if he does not know the cause of death despite MJ being his patient. Also, by not signing the death certificate he is assuming not to have any knowledge of what killed MJ, thereby sticking to his story of 'I did not give Michael anything that should have killed him.'
<!-- m -->http://www.miamidade.gov/medexam/librar ... lities.pdf<!-- m -->
The link details info relevant to Florida. I am assuming the technicalities are the same or similar in California.
Problem is Murray is a higher authority than the paramedics and he overruled them. It says in the affidavit that Murray 'assumed care from the paramedics'. If the paramedics wanted to declare him dead at the scene - which they can do - but Murray insisted they do CPR to the hospital then they will take instruction from Murray, as they did. What is slightly more intriguing is if there were clear obvious signs of death (lividity) in which resuscitation is futile, why did Dr.Cooper and her team continue the resuscitation effort at the hospital? I mean overruling a paramedic is one thing, but a team of doctors going against accepted guidelines doesn't make sense. Dr.Cooper would have assumed care from Murray once at the hospital, she would have made independent decisions as the chief ER doc.
'Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported'
They will not deliberately falsify the cause of death or make false statements on the certificate.
Concerning the paramedics not knowing the patient, there is this link <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/27/paramedic ... -arrived/3<!-- m -->
Dr. Murray already lied once at the hospital. The lying was already in full progress before the paramedics got there. It's a real shame that Murray's lying is making everyone search for the truth, some of it will be found and some of it will not.
i heard someone saying Frank Dileo told in one of his interview that doctors at ucla wanted to put mj on
ventilator ..