[size=10pt]Remember TS saying "that's like [explaining the hoax by] saying the whole cit of L.A. is in on it". COUGH. We're all busy looking at Van Video and RTL video to spot the fake; totally taking liberties to assume that the one on 6/25 was real. Well guess what... but no one would ever think that because the whole notion is *crazy*. Risk? What risk.[/size]
<br />[size=10pt]So if MJ going to the airport is suspect, then also the big emphasis TS made on having as FEW in on it as possible is also suspect. I’ve long felt there is a boat load of professionals in on this. Not only does he have Elvis perhaps still pulling strings in the FBI, but MJ has many friends in high places, including political leaders, media people, heads of giant corporations such as Coca Cola, police and billionaires. Like any top secret operation, the ones at the bottom might know very little in carrying out their duties, and would be sworn to secrecy. Even things such as the mall owner who MJ said, closed his mall so MJ could shop alone and have fun—a tiny example.[/size]<br /><br />[size=10pt]So also is suspect the topic of Ben saying, “the other d-“. TS said absolutely no other day was the whole ambulance scenario played out. It just seems to me hard to believe all the intricate things that all involved had to do that day, could be done successfully the first time round.[/size]<br />[size=10pt]Also does anyone remember someone way back claimed that the particular helicopter used was a retired one, no longer in official use? [/size]<br />[size=10pt]And why did TS focus so much on the ambulance photo and drive to UCLA, and make no effort to get us scrutinizing the heli and coroner’s van, with its side video of possibly Murray?[/size]<br /><br />[size=10pt]SimPattyK[/size]<br />
[size=9pt]So I've stopped long ago trying to figure out the AMBULANCE (s). [/size][size=9pt]<br /> I can't wait for Michael (TS?) to come out and explain his magic tricks!![/size]
<br />[size=9pt]Sadly, I don’t really think a true magician (MJ is one) will ever actually do that. Oh he will toy with us and SAY he’s going to tell us, but then will simply give teasers and possibilities that MAY or MAY NOT be right…[/size] suspicious// <br /><br /><br />[size=9pt]Thank you Tink for re-opening the investigation gone dry, and putting a new boost into it. I love feeling the old thrills of us all discovering MJ’s hoax details and connections![/size] /bravo/ <br /><br /><br />[size=9pt]Bec, I’m always glad when you are re-energized and start doing your key observations![/size]
<br />No, I mean there is a white plug or something right in the middle top of the number plate<br />in the parking garage pic of the plate. I cant see it in the other pics.<br />
<br /><br />It's called a "license plate light." I saw no reason for addressing this before, since I figured everyone's driven<br />inside a parking garage, and knows you've got to turn the lights on, as soon as you drive inside.<br />So, this is rather unimportant - all vehicles in CA have them; it's the law.<br /><br />@MJonmind: Why complicate things? This is HOLLYWOOD, we've got everyone already here.<br />Why not simplify everything, and use the usual casting directors for everyone? Pay people,<br />and they keep their mouths shut in exchange for EMPLOYMENT.<br /><br />For Rescue 5 (that had already been Mothballed, btw), the pilots could be STUNTMEN.<br />Men & women in dark blue, can be movie extras, or off duty police. Same with the Sheriffs.<br />If Off duty, then they can legally drive their own vehicles.<br /><br />We can fly people on Westwinds out of Santa Monica Airport, to almost any point around the world. <br />No need for any "ghosts of the past" playing a cameo. I seriously DOUBT he flew anywhere, btw.<br /><br />Remember - Kenny & Michael were working hard at Post Prod., to get TII out on time.<br /><br />The Masked Magician, he's the only one who will reveal any real Illusions - and the other Illusionists are not amused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl3VTGk7_hQ<br /><br />
<br />@SimPatty - I'm sorry if you don't understand my explanation [...]
I didn't say I didn't understand your explanation.<br />You just have a theory like so many others have theirs...<br />So far, IMO none of the theories managed to eliminate the mystery of the ambulance(s) trick.<br /><br /><br />
on 1330843243:
<br />[....][size=10pt]SimPattyK[/size]<br />
[size=9pt]So I've stopped long ago trying to figure out the AMBULANCE (s). [/size][size=9pt]<br /> I can't wait for Michael (TS?) to come out and explain his magic tricks!![/size]
<br />[size=9pt]Sadly, I don’t really think a true magician (MJ is one) will ever actually do that. Oh he will toy with us and SAY he’s going to tell us, but then will simply give teasers and possibilities that MAY or MAY NOT be right…[/size] suspicious// <br />[....]
Yeah, I think the same! and I'm afraid we will never know 100% the HOWs of this hoax! We will still be left with some doubts and uncertainties even after he returns! hopefully with Elvis!! bow/
I recall all of this being discussed ages ago.<br /><br />At no point does anybody pull anything off the back bumper. In this vid @5:32 you clearly see a white bumper sticker on the left side of the van (a "how am I driving" sticker):<br /><br /><br /><br />Furthermore, in the above vid, the van clearly drives off with the sticker in place.<br /><br />Here is a pic of the coroner van that supposedly transported Whitney's body and it also shows the white bumper sticker on the left (not to mention another on the right):<br /><br /><br /><br />On this still of the 'jumping out' vid, there is no left white bumper sticker visible (and neither is the one on the right):<br /><br /><br /><br />I can't find any better stills, but IMO it's not a matter of 'lighting' because the stickers are clearly missing in the 'jumping out' vid:<br /><br /><br /><br />IMO, they are two different vans.<br /><br />EDITED to add: Also, take a look at the emblem on the Whitney coroner van pic...it does NOT extend beyond the "O" in CORONER. Whereas, the one in the 'jumping out' vid goes past the "O" and under the "R".<br /><br />Or compare to this:<br /><br /><br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br /><br />This is Souza's summarizing post referring to the coroner:<br /><br />
on 1321475249:
<br />Maybe a little off topic, but since E'cas and Craig Harvey are mentioned, I'd like to throw this in. I think we have seen E'cas more often in recent years than we have seen Michael himself. He's a good double and I think he is very capable of fooling the masses. Look at the following picture, MJ & E'Cas, or all E'cass??? <br /><br /><br /><br />As for Craig Harvey: badkolo, Mo and I had some email correspondence with him back in 2009. I will copy and paste some of it here because the info might be helpful:<br /><br />About why certain stuff was blocked on the death certificate (08/27/2009):<br /><br />
I am not sure why some of the information is redacted. The death certificate is a State of California document, not a Coroner or County of Los Angeles document. They set the rules on what they deem as “private or confidential”. I can understand redacting surviving family names and addresses and social security numbers, but some of the other stuff escapes my logic capacity.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI<br />Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
<br /><br />About the fake autopsy picture that was on the net back in 2009, the one with the brain being removed (08/28/2009):<br /><br />
It is not a picture taken at our office. None of the protective apparel worn matches what we wear and the water faucet is brass and everything in our office is stainless. We do a “Y” incision on the body and this is a straight line incision. There is a person in the background wearing civilian clothes with no protective apparel which we would not allow inside of an autopsy suite. The sides of the autopsy table are higher than ours and it appears to be a fixed table and all of ours are slightly slanted and on wheels.<br /> <br />My opinion is that the photo is not authentic and I base that on the area of the photo where the brain is being removed and there is “blood” on the lower portion (top) of the brain, but the upper (bottom) of the brain is “blood” free. The person’s hands are “blood” free and there are dark lines under the decedent’s neck area with whatever is under the neck/head area. The removal of the brain would not be quite so tidy.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Here is email correspondence between badkolo and Craig Harvey about whether the body was MJ's or not. (08/27/2009):<br /><br />
Dear Mr.Harvey,<br /> <br /> My name is *** and I want to apologize before hand for taking up any of your time. I'm Writing a report for my own studies and while I am sure theorists must be bombarding you with questions pertaining to the Michael Jackson case I have one question which I hope you can assist me on. According to documents, Michael Jackson was processed by you and at your facilities. Can you without a doubt state that the body that was handled and the prints that where taken are those of the entertainer Michael Jackson. Basically I am asking if you can confirm That Michael Jackson has actually passed away and the body processed was his.<br /><br /><br />I appreciate your time and I thank you in advance, ***
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I can make that statement without any doubt whatsoever.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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OK so your saying that YES in fact you can confirm he is indeed dead?
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That is correct.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br /><br />About the coroner's van where 'MJ' jumped out of:<br /><br />
That is not our van in the video. It is obvious to me that it belongs to a production/prop company.<br /> <br />California “Exempt” plated vehicles no longer have an “E” enclosed in an octagon preceding the number. Due to the number of exempt vehicles in California, the exempt plate is all numerals (I believe 7 digits) and the word “exempt” appears over the numerals, below the name of the state. The one exception might be vehicles owned by the State of California that may still have an “E” inside a diamond.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Ed Winter claimed in another email: <br /><br />
The vehicle seen in the video is not ours. We have run the license number and it is not a valid number.
<br /><br />So that was sent to Craig Harvey, asking how it could be that both licence plates are the same:<br /><br />
On June 25th, which van are you referring to? The one that went to the helicopter?<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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Well, I also saw ONE van on June 25th... It went to the helicopter, a body was loaded into it, and off it went into the parking garage. I have attached a photo of it, and it shows the license plate with number 1236020.
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That is our van and the guy in blue works for me. The license plate # of the van in the video is (from what I have been able to discern) 1276021, and does not match any vehicle in our fleet.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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I'm confused now. I already knew the van in the video showing Michael Jackson jumping out of it is not yours. But that video clearly shows the same license plate number. Are you telling me there were TWO vans on June 25th?
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They are not the same.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
Hereby a picture of both licence plates. I loaded the photos into Photoshop and zoomed in om them. What appeared to be a 3 in the left plate is clearly a 7 when you soon in on the photo of the van next to the helicopter. <br /><br />I know the leaked video is a fake, but your office states that the licence plate number 1276020 is not of one of your vans. How come the original van from the live CNN footage has that number also? <br /><br />The licence number on the CNN-van also looks strange, because the 2's don't match, the 7 is not straight and the 6 looks written on it, it's not round at the bottom. <br /><br />Now can you tell me, is the van showed on the left (from CNN footage) your van?
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Do you see the bumper sticker that says “Don’t Abandon Your Baby” underneath the license plate of the van near the helicopter? Do you see it in the video? Do you see our slogan on the side of the van in the video “Law and Science Serving the Community”?<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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Yes, I see the sticker and I'm familiar with it. But...did you know that the man wearing black pants and a beige shirt removed it from the van before they pulled away from the helicopter? Please, have a look at this video, and pay attention as from 6.14 until 6.40. You can clearly see that this man removes the sticker, folds it in his hands and then gets back into the van. <br /><br />Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp95YX7OEPo
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He took off his disposable gloves. The door opening handle is located inside the license plate frame area.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
But that leaves these questions unanswered:<br /><br />I know the leaked video is a fake, but your office states that the licence plate number 1276020 is not of one of your vans. How come the original van from the live CNN footage has that number also? <br /><br />The licence number on the CNN-van also looks strange, because the 2's don't match, the 7 is not straight and the 6 looks written on it, it's not round at the bottom. <br /><br />Now can you tell me, is the van showed on the left (from CNN footage) your van?
<br /><br />I can't see an answer to that, so I think he never answered it. <br /><br />About the DC and it not being signed by a doctor:<br /><br />
The issue as to whether a person’s death falls under the jurisdiction of the Coroner under California law depends on the immediate/suspected cause of death. In certain cases, a private physician may sign a death certificate and the Coroner need not be involved. These deaths are always due to natural causes. In other cases, by law, only the Coroner can sign the death certificate due to the immediate or suspected cause/manner of death, e.g. gunshot wound, hanging, accident, suicide, homicide, etc.<br /> <br />The term “under the care of a doctor” or “had a doctor in attendance” means on its’ face that a person had been seen by a physician for a minimum specific period of time and that physician had a medical opinion as to the cause of death. It does not necessarily mean that there was a physician physically standing next to the patient when they died. In most cases, ER doctors do not sign death certificates for the many patients they pronounce dead upon arrival or shortly thereafter each year at their hospitals. Either they legally cannot sign a death certificate due to the cause of death or they simply have limited information on which to base a medical opinion.<br /> <br />Because no physician came forward to sign a death certificate, the Coroner had to be notified. Even if a physician had come forward to sign a death certificate, the cause of death would have to be based on documented/known medical history and due to natural causes with no external factors involved. If someone had signed a death certificate with inaccurate information, other physicians who know the patient or family members could contact the Coroner and the Coroner could take jurisdiction if the information is found to have merit.<br /> <br />[size=18pt]Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.[/size]<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />After being asked why he said after MJ's death: ""I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson" instead of on mister Michael Jackson?<br /><br />
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.<br /> <br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Who is it?:<br /><br />
Dear mister Harvey,<br /><br />I have seen your statement on TV about the famous Michael Jackson autopsy.<br />There is something bothering me about your statement. At one point you say:<br /><br />I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson. <br /><br />Well, shouldn't that the an autopsy on or of Michael Jackson?<br /><br />Can you confirm that the LA Coroner's Office actually performed an autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (1958) in June 2009, or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?<br />
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It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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That is understandable, I know that things can be taken differently. It's good to know that you still see your clients as persons, and not objects. But can you please answer my other question? After that I promise I won't bother you again.<br /><br />Can you confirm that the LA Coroner's Office actually performed an autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (1958) in June 2009, or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?
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I can confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on Mr. Jackson.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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You are a smart man mister Harvey, I thought you would say that, that is why I asked specifically about mr. Michael Joseph Jackson, born on August 29, 1958, died June 25, 2009. Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on that specific person?<br /><br />Because rumor has it that Mr. Ed Winter said that the licence plate number on the coroner's van is not a valid one and is not a van of your office.<br />
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I don’t understand what one has to do with the other.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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If the van at the helicopter as we have seen on the live CNN footage was not an official coroner's van, there is a big reason to look at all the other stuff too surrounding his death. I'm not saying he isn't, but a lot of things don't add up here. So I will try once again:<br /><br />Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (born August 29, 1958, died June 35, 2009), or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?
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The van at the helicopter was an official Coroner van and was a 2007 Ford. The video depicts a Ford van, but there are obvious differences between that van and our vans. The van in the video is clearly a production/prop van belonging to a studio or company that provides vehicles to film productions.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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OK fair enough, but my most important question is still unanswered, let me try again:<br /><br />Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (born August 29, 1958, died June 25, 2009), or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?<br />
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Yes I can confirm that and no I do not believe that the autopsy was performed by another Coroner’s office.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
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Thank you, and of course I meant June 25, not 35. Can you also confirm that the body of Michael Jackson that you office performed an autopsy on was without doubt the body of Michael Joseph Jackson?
<br /><br />No answer after that.<br /><br />With a miss Gonzalez regarding the leaked AR (April 2011):<br /><br />
I read some media articles concerning the autopsy result of Michael Jackson. Are these real, or again fake ones?<br />Also, why aren't we hearing anything about the second autopsy?<br /><br />Last question. Since Michael Jackson's legal name is Michael Joe Jackson, instead of Michael Joseph Jackson, wouldn't that mean the death certificate is invalid? I found a document from the government where it says that ones TRUE NAME should be stated, with aka's if relevant.
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The official coroner report for Mr. Jackson is available to the public for $82.00. [size=18pt]Our Department did not perform the second autopsy[/size].<br /> <br />If you are interested in ordering a copy of the Coroner report, please send the abovementioned fee to:
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I don't understand. Wasn't the autopsy report already published in the media?
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The media has obtained a copy from our office. I am aware that copies are floating around. You are more than welcome to look for it in that manner. However, if you would like a complete, official copy from our office, the fee for it is $82.00.<br /> <br />Silvia Gonzalez
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Hello ms Gonzalez,<br /><br />I understand, but that copy would be no different than the one I have already, right?<br /><br />If I have questions about the autopsy report, who can I contact for that?
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I wouldn’t be able to tell you if what you have is the same unless I took a look at it. As for who you can contact, that would depend on the nature of the question. If your questions is related to the autopsy, you may contact Dr. Rogers at (323) 343-0715. If the question is related to the field investigation, you may contact Investigator Fleak at (323) 343-0714. All other questions, please contact (323) 343-0512 and they will try and assist you.<br /> <br />Thank you.<br /> <br />Silvia Gonzalez
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Do you know why the report wasn't sealed? This is a homicide case and the case is not closed yet. Is it standard procedure to release an autopsy report before a homicide investigation is completed? The report was obtained by TMZ pretty soon after it was finalized and the investigation was still on-going.<br /><br />This is the copy I have of the report: http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0208_mj_case_report_wm.pdf. I would appreciate it if you could check if it is the report coming from your office.<br /><br />Could you give me the email addresses of Dr. Rogers and Investigator Fleak?
<br /><br />Again, no answer after that.<br /><br />I just thought I'd throw that in here, maybe it helps. Harvey denies there was a second autopsy, Gonzalez said they didn't perform the second auopsy. And I think Harvey's answer about the bogus DC says enough, i.e. read between the lines.<br />
109: Oddness about the LA Coroner: Craig Harvey. He is listed in IMDB.com as having worked on some film projects in the past. He also has a rather bizarre twitter page. Now he doesn’t have a “verified” twitter account, so he could be anyone. But what is interesting is… his first tweet came through on June 20th. So 5 days before MJ died, the coroner of LA decided just for the hell of it to start a Twitter account. Then his other posts are cryptic about MJ. How would a “fake craig harvey” know to start a twitter account five days before MJ died? And what would be the point anyway if he’s STILL only got 34 followers?
<br /> [li] Executive Board Member at California State Coroner's Association [/li]<br /> [li] Technical Advisor at "NCIS" - Belasarius Productions [/li]<br /> [li] Chief Coroner Investigator at Los Angeles County [/li]<br />
<br /> [li] Investigator at County of Los Angeles Dept. of Coroner [/li]<br />
Past
<br /> [li] Technical Advisor/Production at Vantage Point Productions [/li]<br /> [li] Criminal Fraud Investigator at State of California Department of Insurance [/li]<br /> [li] Technical Instructor/Patrol Supervisor at US Air Force[/li]<br />
[...]<br /> Executive Board Member California State Coroner's Association <br /> September 2009 – Present (2 years 7 months) State of California <br /> Executive Board member of the California State Coroner's Association representing the 58 California counties comprised of Sheriff-Coroners, Coroners and Medical Examiners. Involved with professional training, legislation and working with Counties, States and National entities to improve the medico-legal death investigation efforts in California and the nation. <br /> Technical Advisor "NCIS" - Belasarius Productions <br /> April 2003 – Present (9 years) <br /> Provide technical assistance to writer staff during script development, script review and telephonic and occasional on-set production assistance to actors, background, special effects, set decoration and property master with respect to medical examiner functions. <br /> Chief Coroner Investigator Los Angeles County Government Agency; 10,001+ employees; Government Administration industry <br /> December 1991 – Present (20 years 4 months) <br /> Investigator County of Los Angeles Dept. of Coroner Government Agency; 51-200 employees; Public Safety industry <br /> 1986 – Present (26 years) <br /> Technical Advisor/Production Vantage Point Productions <br /> 2002 – 2008 (6 years) <br /> Criminal Fraud Investigator State of California Department of Insurance Government Agency; 10,001+ employees; Government Administration industry <br /> August 1990 – August 1991 (1 year 1 month) <br /> Technical Instructor/Patrol Supervisor US Air Force Government Agency; 10,001+ employees; Defense & Space industry <br /> August 1974 – March 1982 (7 years 8 months) <br /> Technical Instructor at Security Police Academy (74-78) instructing in various aspects of Air Base Defense, combat skills, weapons, tactics and also heavy weapons, (81mm Mortar and Fire Direction, .50 Caliber Heavy Machine Gun and 90mm Recoilless Rifle). Awarded Master Instructor rating. Taught proficiency skills in Heavy Weapons in Pacific Theater (78-80). <br />
I know we have discussed the vans in great detail a long time ago. We have had forum changes, perhaps lost some links or threads....I don't know. I remember comparing the vans and writing about the helicopters. There were many things pertaining to the The Great Illusion of June 25th, 2009 that we have thought about, written about and throughly discussed for months on end. I do, however, love this "classic hoax" investigation talk. That day was like none other. I think we have all done a spectacular job in finding the bits and pieces of the illusionary work. It's truly an adventure.....one heck of a rabbit hole. For me, the vans stand different. Which one is the real coroner's van, not sure. This picture of a comparison shows different lettering, one point of discussion months ago, but worth looking at again:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />One of the very subtle things that has always played on my mind, are the shadows of the day. Especially of the backing out ambulance at Carolwood. The shadows also at the helicopter site are odd to me for some reason. They seem almost fake...or too brightly lit. I remember researching the helicopters as well. There was something about that particular one...the tail number, model etc.....I will try to find my post about it. <br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />
Michael is a fucking GENIUS! This is what I’ve been alluding to all the time. THE CORNOER VAN ESCAPE IS THE REAL DEAL. The 6/25 footage, an illusion for distraction. I still have questions regarding the lone plane that left the airport that morning in such secrecy, with one unidentified passenger aboard.
Just a note re: the helicopter serial number. I can attest that I have seen the flight report for that serial # chopper and it had NO recorded flight the day of 6/25/09, and it was indeed listed as "retired from service" prior to that date.<br /><br />The inscription on the side of the van, under the stripe, is not visible in the underground van video due to lighting and resolution. It is sometimes not visible on Live CNN footage either due to bright lighting (sun), glare, and resolution again. In other words, right there on live, uninterrupted video, the inscription appears and disappears again. Go frame by frame and you can see that.<br /><br />Ps. I also recall the seal on the AR is incorrect/not valid.
I fully agree!! Even with that word! <br /><br />I'm not quite a fan of using "big' words, but Michael truly and ingeniously fucked up every body's minds that day with the ambulance, the sheets, the stretcher, the heli, the plane , the everything is the best Magic Trick ever!<br /><br />
on 1330879653:
<br /> The 6/25 footage, an illusion for distraction. [...]
ohh yes! that day...watching those helicopter images , my eyes covered in a veil of tears.... I was under the impression of seeing images from a movie!<br /><br />Now the more i look back on that day, the more I have the impression of watching a LIVE David Copperfield show, you know his shows!! especially the plane stuff, and the MJ-air scene from This is it, reminds me of this Copperfield show!!<br />Just imagine Michael used the "Ambulance Vanish" trick, instead of Copperfield's "Airplane vanish".<br />The spectators have NO idea how he did IT until he explains .... <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Then seeing all the discussions regarding the ambulance, the angle, the shadows <br />that we see on those tapes, made me think of this Copperfield show:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]IT'S ALL MAGIC-TRICKS! PURE MAGIC! Long live Hollywood and the Art of Filming[/size]<br />
OMGosh....my eyes are buggy right now, lol. I posted that comparison photo just now. It wasn't till I looked at it again right now.....I noticed the background of the helicopter shot on the left. What is that area? This is a shot of the unloading, the shrubbery in the forefront tells us that. There is nothing but shrubs around that lot. What is that grey area lined with metal looking stuff? OK....I am about to go off the deep end....but, remember in This Is It.....the rehearsals of They Don't Really Care About Us? Michael is seen walking into the large room where they are supposedly looking at the drill, he's walking in with a bunch of people..."Michael's here" is heard....they sit at a table to look at a video...I don't have time to go find the video right now....but, what I am getting at.....the background wall area of that room he walks into with all those people.......is it similar to the background we see of this helicopter? I have to go watch that video, and will....but there is something familiar about the background. I think we have missed a lot concentrating on foreground stuff. <br />OK....really gotta go, LOL.....life is calling......<br />Blessing to all
<br />Just a note re: the helicopter serial number. I can attest that I have seen the flight report for that serial # chopper and it had NO recorded flight the day of 6/25/09, and it was indeed listed as "retired from service" prior to that date.<br /><br />The inscription on the side of the van, under the stripe, is not visible in the underground van video due to lighting and resolution. It is sometimes not visible on Live CNN footage either due to bright lighting (sun), glare, and resolution again. In other words, right there on live, uninterrupted video, the inscription appears and disappears again. Go frame by frame and you can see that.<br /><br />Ps. I also recall the seal on the AR is incorrect/not valid.<br />
<br /><br />A million yeses bec! This is some of what I was trying find.....I know it was posted about ages ago. THANK YOU : )<br />Yes yes to it all....the seal especially! Awesome bec!<br />
Yes Bec, I agree sometimes the inscription "disappears" on the live footage due to lightning and angle, but on the garage footage it really seems that the inscription isn't there, even with this lighting -- if there was an inscription we would see it IMO.<br /><br /><br /><br />Something else pointed by BeTheChange I think is the size of the stickers in the middle of the left back door, they take more space in the garage van compared to the ones we see on the live van. <br />
@BeTheChange - <br /><br />#1 - Michael's van is FAKE; NOT part of the Coroner's fleet! The plate doesn't match what they have. Ed Winter's verified it, in 2009, <br />according to the info people here had already had.<br />#2 - I've already said that it's the STICKERS on the license plate itself, not the big stickers on the BUMPERS. <br />#3 - I've also pointed out that Michael's people used Post Production techniques, to create the Illusion that the van in the garage is different<br />from Michael's van. <br />#4 - The rest was removed in "Post Production" the same way we do SFX digitally in Hollywood for television & movies.<br /><br />Doing Special Effects on a moving item on low resolution? CAKE!<br /><br />It's ever so easy to DELETE or add items on a moving van. So very, very easy. Watch any action movie, see how SFX departments insert things that aren't really there? That's all done in POST PRODUCTION!<br /><br />The lettering, anything. Make the hinges white, shorten the arrows.<br /><br />#5 Why did police officers drive the van, and NOT the Coroner's office? fresse/ I believe this further makes my point, other than it being driven into the human parking garage - not the dead body drop off area.<br /><br />After that, have the German friends create another video, and Bam! You've got the perfect illusion, and no one will ever believe it again.<br /><br />Never believe everything you hear; Never believe everything you see; Never stop believing.
The "jumping out van" has no "Law and Science Serving the Community" under the blue stripe.<br />It should look like this and doesn't.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />This video has a smoke cloud we have not seen on any other video of the "body arrives at coroner" scene.<br />Nobody even reacted to it, not the police, not the Sheriff, not the chopper staff.<br /><br />
on 1330879958:
<br />In searching just now for something else, I came across this video...how does it compare, something seems off.....<br /><br /><br />
<br />Michael is a fucking GENIUS! This is what I’ve been alluding to all the time. THE CORNOER VAN ESCAPE IS THE REAL DEAL. The 6/25 footage, an illusion for distraction. I still have questions regarding the lone plane that left the airport that morning in such secrecy, with one unidentified passenger aboard. <br />
<br /><br />I believe that's a myth, so no one would look for him here.
@Tink<;br /><br />Ed confirmed that the van in the underground garage doesn't match their fleet....while confirming that the van at the helicopter pad DOES match the fleet.<br /><br />Regardless of which stickers you were talking about, I'm talking about the huge white sticker on the bumper that is clearly on one van but not on the other.<br /><br />The emblems on the back left door do NOT match on both the vans...the garage van's emblem is much larger than the Coroner van @ the heli pad.<br /><br />As Sarahli pointed out, the writing on the side of the van in missing in the garage van....but is clearly present in the Coroner van @ the heli pad (I believe Ed also alluded to this...but can't be sure, will have to reread).<br /><br />IMO, those are 4 glaring discrepancies showing clear differences in the two vans...strong enough points IMO that prove they are not the same vans. <br /><br />You, of course, are free to believe whatever you wish.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />Yes Bec, I agree sometimes the inscription "disappears" on the live footage due to lightning and angle, but on the garage footage it really seems that the inscription isn't there, even with this lighting -- if there was an inscription we would see it IMO.<br /><br /><br /><br />Something else pointed by BeTheChange I think is the size of the stickers in the middle of the left back door, they take more space in the garage van compared to the ones we see on the live van.<br />
<br /><br />Post Op, digitally removed, people. Thanks for the photos that prove me even further! party/
<br />I know we have discussed the vans in great detail a long time ago. We have had forum changes, perhaps lost some links or threads....I don't know. I remember comparing the vans and writing about the helicopters. There were many things pertaining to the The Great Illusion of June 25th, 2009 that we have thought about, written about and throughly discussed for months on end. I do, however, love this "classic hoax" investigation talk. That day was like none other. I think we have all done a spectacular job in finding the bits and pieces of the illusionary work. It's truly an adventure.....one heck of a rabbit hole. For me, the vans stand different. Which one is the real coroner's van, not sure. This picture of a comparison shows different lettering, one point of discussion months ago, but worth looking at again:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />One of the very subtle things that has always played on my mind, are the shadows of the day. Especially of the backing out ambulance at Carolwood. The shadows also at the helicopter site are odd to me for some reason. They seem almost fake...or too brightly lit. I remember researching the helicopters as well. There was something about that particular one...the tail number, model etc.....I will try to find my post about it. <br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br />Those are the same photos I posted, hon - #2 & #3. NEITHER IS REAL, That's the point I'm making!! <br />Both have already been altered - LOOK at the one on the left: there's a black circle around the FORD EMBLEM. How is that possible!?<br />Plus, a black mark over the upper top of the #6.<br /><br />The "Coroner" lettering doesn't match the actual lettering on a real van - look at what I've posted already.<br /><br />See, when you start to compare the FAKE van against itself, it gets you nowhere, after Post Production.
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