today has been a very bad day for me, ive been crying for the past three hours & i got on here finally to see if we had a new redrect, but my eyes hurt too bad. I've been staring at these pictures, and the leaves, and I honestly don't understand what's going on. We DID figure out the face a while ago, is there more to it or something? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I don't know <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
P.S. You said "As we near the end", are we REALLY near the end? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
This picture is definately photoshopped. There must be a reason that TS is leading us to MJ's face in the picture.
To me is striking that: the ambu-medic who's doing the chest compression only uses one hand and that hand is placed on a wrong "too high" position near the clavicula/collar bone! Correct adult CP must be performed with 2 hands: one hand 1/2 inch above the "V" where the ribs join the breastbone. The other hand (which I don't see <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> ) should be put on top of the one already in place. According to some media sources Dr. Murray did one handed CPR as well <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> As far as I know that is not the correct CPR for adults. May be the ambu-medics did perform the correct CPR procedure, yet the photoshop "techniques" made us believe the opposite <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> The message could be that paparazzi/tabloid media can alter a photo to make us believe what they want!
And why did TS give us the link of this person who's showing us the ambulance interior? (I remember the car difference has been discussed in another thread) It seems to me that it isn't the same ambulance. OK, it is a #71, but its size is smaller and the windows are smaller than the "real" ambulance. Notice the differences: <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg<!-- m --> at 7.57 and the one on the picture . I attached the picture of the "real" ambulance. Or is it just optical illusion? Makes you wonder which one is the real ambulance...
This is weird when turn the picture upside down the extra face the cartoon like face turns into Michaels face but with army hat and part of uniform has that been mentioned sorry if it has. Does anybody else see it as it's very clear upside down.
This zoomed area is a leaf-like pattern (whether or not you see a face hidden in the pattern). So the big question for now is whether the pattern ...
#1 ... is part of the secondary image (with the red car, etc)?
#2 ... is part of the ambulance interior design?
#3 ... is edited into the picture (Photoshop), not part of the ambulance or secondary image?
#3
I think is edited and cofusing.
Looks like the pic is taken from the side window.
Also, the "drawer" where the "leaves" have been shopped, is placed opposite (not in front) the side window.
I am not sure if there is a real red car on the first place.
However, if a red car is being reflected, the car should have been on the side of the van, not the back part if we pressume that the pic has been taken from the side window.
msteetee34 wrote:
Beside the eyes look at the difference between the equipment being used in the photo with MJ and the other photo posted with the anonymous person. The equipment in the MJ photo look way old and outdated compared to the ambulances that are used now days. That's another reason to believe the photo is old.
The MJ photo is NOT outdated. 100% is not. All ambulances are different inside. All of the equipment in that picture is very much current. I don't understand what people see as being old. Lifepak 12s are very new, the equipment they're using in general is all current (the ET tube, tube holder, veniguard, ETCO2, BVM, patches on the medics). Some of it my company uses now.
LadyMedic wrote:
And I have to say I do like what you're saying about the picture and the point I've been trying to make all along. Sure, this whole thing could be a hoax. But that does not mean that there is going to be error in everything they did. The ambulance photo, from the standpoint of a paramedic, is legit. As is the 911 call procedure. Does that mean it's MJ in the ambulance? No. But what they have done to the person/dummy/etc. is totally normal. And the equipment they're using is current.
I'm sure I saw a video of the ambulance backing out that showed the red car wasn't in the right position to be reflected in Ben's photo.
OK, so back to the ambulance. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
You are right - compared to the movies we were presented, we may doubt where and how the photos were composed.
We should consider a little bit more material.
Remember the EXIF data of one of the pictures showed 12:08 as creation hour.
That's 18 minutes before the ambulance allegedly arrived.
This is the video of the "proof picture" which is only proving the fact that several takes were executed but not the fact that Christopher Weiss shot that sequence of photos: he's in bright sunlight without any tree shadows as seen on the famous pictures:
[youtube:z9horq1w]
Evenstad is not saying the truth stating in the video he could see Michael's face through the window. He was not there in front of the side window - at least not in the material we saw. He was not even the one shooting the "proof" photo, since he was not down the street. He was also not at the window in the "proof" photo and also not in the Hollywood TV video. Ben was sitting in his car, the red Toyota Prius, while the ambulance backed out. You see this for a second (1:36) in the Hollywood TV video when the video filmer is running back to his car.
The "proof" photo is showing the yellow shirt guy taking the photo in the middle of the road (and not the red shirt guy from the video who stood in front of the yellow shirt guy there). The angle of the camera of the yellow shirt guy is even wrong. Impossible to shoot the picture like this. Only the red shirt guy could have shot it, but in the Hollywood TV movie, he's running away too fast and DOESN'T EVEN LOOK into the window but turns his head to the left.
This is the exact way how to NOT shoot a good sequence of pics.
It's getting better: in an interview, Weiss stated this:
Yeah, and did you notice his so called offhand comment…
“We couldn't see inside the ambulance,” Weiss continues “For all I knew when I was taking the pictures, Michael could have been sitting up on a gurney with oxygen on It's like he knew what was going on inside it…..
(credit to Morgana on MJHD.com, July 27, 2009)
In another video about the ambulance picture, Ben is telling more fairy tales.
Watch the seconds as of 1:14 - the video keeps hanging in on that blurry something and is showing the red car again (and the wall behind it - see the leaves even would have had to move 7 feet forwards to come close to the car front and become part of a mirroring thingie - photoshop... <!-- s --><!-- s -->)
[youtube:z9horq1w]
Why would a cristal clear video have to be hanging in on a blurry somethingie for seconds?
Now thanks to international interest, someone saved the TMZ video version for us:
The tourist bus is parking in parallel to the fire truck, not close to the pylones as in the Hollywood TV movie. Please watch for the shadows, they are much longer now than in the Hollywood TV movie, watch the crack in the middle of the road and compare both films.
In the Hollywood TV movie, there's no shadow at all in sight in the middle of the road, the garbage bins and the folks at the back door are in sunshine.
In the TMZ movie, the ambulance backs out into the shadow of the trees at the right side of the street.
Coming back to the role of the red car in the "reflection" of the tinted side window.
The red Toyota Prius (Ben Evenstad's car that he reportedly had lent for joyrides to Michael) was parked right in front of the gate when the ambulance backed out, when the water ran through the house some days later (see thread on TIAI Feb 14 redirect) and when the mourning fans gathered (see video TS_comments cited - at the last two occasions: parked at Monovale).
Seems that its owner still was around that address all the time - despite the fact that the owner allegedly had passed away and was - to be honest - not a hot selling target anymore.
I mean, NPG had shot "THE" photo and Ben still was not satisfied? (Or suspicious or what?)
What do we see on that photo?
The lined-up garbage bins - and a red Toyota Prius parked in a cop protected area. Huh?
What was it looking like on June 25, 2009 in the afternoon according to life.com: http://www.life.com/image/88688298
No red Toyota Prius that day. Hidden behind the truck?
I think the car and its driver are much more interesting than the ambulance photo as such.
How come a red Toyota Prius was present in a closed area with cops presence the day after the alleged passing of Michael Jackson?
Btw, behind the Prius a dark SUV was parked (the type Michael used) and the license plate is also visible in the Hollywood TV movie.
Was the master watching and directing the takes from the outside?
Just asking.
Great post Grace!!! You brought up some great points in this post! Thank you for all your hard work...There's nothing like seeing the "master Michael" at work. ...I found your post very interesting.
Thanks TS for alerting us to this subject...let the "Adventure" continue!
Love to you all! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I didn't see the face until tonight, lol. My eyes could only make out the leaves earlier. Out of curiosity I copied the pic, zoomed it up to 300% and lo' and behold there are more lines. Granted, they're really faint so I created a new layer and started tracing the shadows on a very low opacity (so my lines wouldn't obstruct my view). When I zoomed back out and raised the opacity all the way up (to actually see what I had drawn), I surprisingly got something very close to Mjonmind's screencap, but flipped:
This is from 1:54, and the leaves on the wall kinda look like the design.
This could still be photo manipulation though. Assuming that I traced it correctly and considering that the shadows in the ambulance pic do not match up completely with the screencap of the tree, it's possible the shadows were always there but manipulated to look more like a face. That, or I traced it incorrectly and my post is meaningless <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
Photoshopped in, unless MJ himself simply sat up <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> and doodled it out on the storage box built into the Ambulance wall... It looks like a leaf pattern, but I've seen this same type of drawing of MJ before. I think it is his own handiwork, sort of a Warhol-esque knock-off, this time.
Maybe it was some kind of waxy drawing medium, more fluid than Crayola's, easily erased, which the Eternal Prankster quickly sketched, to spook the stuffing out of his team! I can see him doing this. <!-- s --><!-- s --> Just to shake THEM up. Imagine: if anyone outside the Hoax plan SAW that sketch live!! The gig would be up. Dead men don't sketch. Hoax staff would ALL be afraid heads would roll at MJ's command! But maybe not too many would know MJ had drawn it...
More likely, in that panic it caused, it would have been hurriedly explained away <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> as some supernatural event(like the face of Jesus supposedly appearing on St.Veronica's veil, as a souvenier for wiping his brow on His death walk, to Golgotha....)
The reason(s) the image isn't on the empty ambulance photos or video, is ,
A] that is not the same ambulance; or
B] he or someone else, quickly (!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> )wiped MJ's artwork off, before he left the vehicle, to be whisked away to the Airport.
It's not that far fetched. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Heck, we KNOW he didn't just lay there and play dead---we saw "him" sit up in the helicopter! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
Anyway, that's my latest picture theory. What and why.... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Incidentally, the other "block of interest" in the ambulance photo, appears to me to be an image of MJ in his Wiz makeup, next to a laughing Elvis and some third image I can't tell...but, like it was already stated by TS, one can see faces anywhere.
In fact, at 400% magnification, also, I see a clear young MJ in some kind of a less crisp "brother's collage" on the GROUND, near the wall, @141, in the red car link TS provided, so, go figure!
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.
*hangs head and sighs*
I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.
Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.
Pps: I love blue.
Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.
*hangs head and sighs*
I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.
Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.
Pps: I love blue.
Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.
Bec you can also lose playing games on Xbox. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I understand you the way you feel, as soon as we find something concrete we make a step forward and than all of a sudden we hear something of the trial or about Katherine and we go a step backwards, it is frustrating. At least we have eachother here, we are all going through the same thing. We want Michael to come back on his own terms, but as long as we can have a clue that he is alive and fine. We know that he is alive, but we would like to have concrete proof.. Bec,just tell yourself you are not alone. Blessings.
This is off topic maybe? But in this video (that Grace provided) when Ben is explaining that the ambulance was in the driveway for over 40 minutes, the gates kept opening and closing, etc.
You can see in the video when the gates are closed (there is a small gap in the gates) I can see Alberto hold his hand up. Ben says during that moment is when they're taking Michael out on the strecher and Ben says you can see it just briefly.
Ben says that the body guards and a FAN are trying to block the cameras view. I didn't see the strecher Ben was talking about but I did see someone stand up from a crouching position and start to walk towards the ambulance. It is very quick but it is a man and I think it was Michael. Take a look yourselves.
I have been re-reading some of the old threads.....mostly ambulance related right now. I think this old thread is very interesting. It seems to touch on much of what's being said, plus a few odds and ends:
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11361<!-- l -->
Love and Blessings!
Yes that does look like Michael, body language and all. Wow. Ben says " when they were bringing Michael out....(pauses) on the stretcher. This is BIG!!!
@Its her: thank you for your post. I feel like you straightened my head out with a good talking to and then wrapped your arms around me and gave me a big ol hug. You are right, of course, with every single word and I know this is supposed to be fun and I wouldn't trade one minute of the past 20 months for all the money in the world. I'm sorry. I lost perspective. Of course we can't "win" the game at our own pace. That makes no sense, it's a global, public hoax not my private Xbox game.
*hangs head and sighs*
I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.
Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.
Pps: I love blue.
Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.
Aawww, Bec, that was so SWEET of you!
I knew it was just exhaustion. (or maybe you were in need of a Snickers candy bar with protein, "Diva" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Have you seen that commercial ad? <!-- s --><!-- s --> )
Not a one of us here has gone 20 months without an unexplainable crying jag, or thrown inanimate objects (mostly soft things, like cat toys and Cheetos) across the room out of exasperation. Your post was cathartic. <!-- s --><!-- s --> Nothin' like a good safe (on paper) RANT, once in a while to normalize all the rest who are holding back secret steam and wondering, "What's wrong with me? How'd I let this get such a hold on me???"
Now, now, no head hanging--that was cute---there's been NO harm done. <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: -->
We ALL know you really didn't want to choke our Man. <!-- s --><!-- s --> (However the gals who started that spanking thread are viscious! I believed them! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> )
When we do well at things, we naturally expect encouragement, acknowledgement, at least. It can be maddening to not know if you are even on the right track, or should you back track or keep going or stand still... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> CRAP <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
We have been trained by TPTB to look to them trustingly for Truth. We need not look to anyone, really, if we have studied to our satisfaction. (and I pray a lot too <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> )
This is a "huh??! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> where's my dog-treat?" moment for lots of us, when there is nothing--not even a nod from the Teacher. But, I bought my OWN treats/Snickers <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> ) I and I explained it for myself, that, in THIS important case---could be a matter of Life or Death for some people---MJ WANTs us to learn to think for ourselves and KNOW for ourselves, without Teacher say so, that we got it right; nailed the Truth and are confident in it. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
It's sort of like that head shaving, <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> psychological isolation "treatment", "V" gave Evey (V For Vendetta). NOT fun. And strangely, Lonely. With a capital "L".("This ain't no dang game, grrr"--temptation to self-doubt, <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> when we know better <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> ) One MUST get used to shrugging off hurt from imaginations or real loneliness, if one attempts to think differently than the average sheep. Make friends because you will feel married to it. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
I just realized! We are learning/experiencing!!! a priceless lesson in personal FREEDOM, here. O.M.G. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> (I'm going to watch "V" again! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> ) Thank you for YOUR posts, Bec. You give me great ideas! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important. Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax. I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.
Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc. So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.
For those who are interested, enjoy the ride. For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth. And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.
To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here. There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out. You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}. As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died. I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another. I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason. All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only. The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
There is the famous Hollywood TV video of the ambulance backing out of the driveway. It is embedded in the story and here is the same one on YouTube, so you can see it in a larger format.
[youtube:5zd6mv2g]
Anyway, nothing about this ambulance pic makes any sense. In the video you can see it looks like a photographer might have tried to take a pic from the back windows, but it shows a security guard putting his hands on those windows. Then maybe a photographer tried to take a pic from the right passenger side window, but even if he had it would be the wrong direction for the pic we were shown.
TS it is good to hear from you again, but I'm stumped with this thread topic. I do see a face that looks like Michael. In your blow up of the pic it does resemble foliage of some sort, but I just can't see how it could be a reflection from anything outside or inside the ambulance. The pic seems too clear for being taken through a smoked glass window taken in a split second. So I think the pic is fake and has been cleverly manipulated, for whatever reasons.
Something strange I ran across just moments ago from a friend on Twitter is the link below.
It is an article by Uri Geller from 2007. In this article he mentions a man named Larry Geller, (Elvis' hairdresser and "spiritual" friend) who wrote a book called “Leaves of Elvis’ Garden”. This book supposedly tells of Elvis' interest in spiritual matters. So the story mentions Elvis and also mentions Criss Angel too. This story caught my attention because of the name of the book and also because Elvis at one time lived right down the street from where MJ was living. Probably nothing, but you never know. I haven't researched this any further. Cheetoman2004 you mentioned the fact that the date/time of this thread equaled 8 which also reminded me of the importance of the number 8 to Elvis.
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important. Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax. I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.
Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc. So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.
For those who are interested, enjoy the ride. For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth. And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.
To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here. There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out. You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}. As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died. I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another. I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason. All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only. The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
How amazing to be able to quote you. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I was waiting for your post. Thank you TS. I can not wait to read your upcoming posts. I feel myself like a curious student who wants to learn more and more. Thank you so much for guiding us. We couldn't find this much about the hoax without your help. I learned a lot from you and still learning. I appreciate it a lot. I've been on this rollercoaster for 18 months and I'm never tired of it at all. I'm enjoying the ride. This has been the best, and the most thrilling journey of my life. And it can be done by only one genius. Mr Michael Joe Jackson. I salute you the great Master of Mystery and Magic. Thank You and God Bless.
And about the ambulance picture; as I KNOW that Michael is alive, I never believed the picture was real. But still I would love to hear the details about it and also about the hows of the hoax. Can not wait for your upcoming posts TS. God bless you.
So by starting with the ambulance photo your trying to point us in the direction of how this hoax was pulled off and of those involved. But how is the ambo photo going to do that? Because if the photo is fake and Ben is the one that took it then wouldn't that mean Ben is in the know or at least knows MJ faked his death. So wouldn't the ambo photo only confirm if Ben is apart of the hoax not anyone else. Also how does the photo show how the hoax was done. I have read the various theories on here and dont get how it would show how this hoax was pulled off but I would like to know.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense or if if you have already said it but I'm just not getting it, could you please explain.
Let me start by answering why this is important, or if it is important. Actually, it’s not one of the most important subjects in the hoax. I have already discussed extensively the most important parts: evidence that it is a hoax (not murder); the planned timing (and numerology); and the reasons for the hoax.
Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc. So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.
For those who are interested, enjoy the ride. For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth. And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.
To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here. There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out. You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}. As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died. I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another. I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason. All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only. The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
I've been hanging out to learn much more about the hows of the hoax. I think it will be fascinating to know more about how exactly Michael has done this. I'll be hanging on for this ride....and look forward to reading more of your comments TS.
Well here goes with MHO. Ben E said "that day and the other Da....So I tend to believe the pic of Michael was taken as a pose shot in a totally different ambulance from the one shown at the fire Dept. and the next day a pic taken of the red car and then given an overlay, to make it look like a reflection. Because the red car takes on different appearances with the wheel hubs and what looks like a black med bag with the yellow label on it, the black bag looks transparent. So two different ambulances, two different days and two separate pics. Now keep in mind there is a very slight chance I am wrong, because I was once years ago. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> just had to throw that in.. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Just a thought....LOVE you ALL and LOVE to you TS.
Victoria
Comments
P.S. You said "As we near the end", are we REALLY near the end? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
This picture is definately photoshopped. There must be a reason that TS is leading us to MJ's face in the picture.
To me is striking that: the ambu-medic who's doing the chest compression only uses one hand and that hand is placed on a wrong "too high" position near the clavicula/collar bone! Correct adult CP must be performed with 2 hands: one hand 1/2 inch above the "V" where the ribs join the breastbone. The other hand (which I don't see <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> ) should be put on top of the one already in place. According to some media sources Dr. Murray did one handed CPR as well <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> As far as I know that is not the correct CPR for adults. May be the ambu-medics did perform the correct CPR procedure, yet the photoshop "techniques" made us believe the opposite <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> The message could be that paparazzi/tabloid media can alter a photo to make us believe what they want!
And why did TS give us the link of this person who's showing us the ambulance interior? (I remember the car difference has been discussed in another thread) It seems to me that it isn't the same ambulance. OK, it is a #71, but its size is smaller and the windows are smaller than the "real" ambulance. Notice the differences: <!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg<!-- m --> at 7.57 and the one on the picture . I attached the picture of the "real" ambulance. Or is it just optical illusion? Makes you wonder which one is the real ambulance...
Am I seeing things here. Help
#3
I think is edited and cofusing.
Looks like the pic is taken from the side window.
Also, the "drawer" where the "leaves" have been shopped, is placed opposite (not in front) the side window.
re; Inside ambulance 71 (starting at 9:00): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMB5gfcVChg
I am not sure if there is a real red car on the first place.
However, if a red car is being reflected, the car should have been on the side of the van, not the back part if we pressume that the pic has been taken from the side window.
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Great post Grace!!! You brought up some great points in this post! Thank you for all your hard work...There's nothing like seeing the "master Michael" at work. ...I found your post very interesting.
Thanks TS for alerting us to this subject...let the "Adventure" continue!
Love to you all! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
This could still be photo manipulation though. Assuming that I traced it correctly and considering that the shadows in the ambulance pic do not match up completely with the screencap of the tree, it's possible the shadows were always there but manipulated to look more like a face. That, or I traced it incorrectly and my post is meaningless <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
Maybe it was some kind of waxy drawing medium, more fluid than Crayola's, easily erased, which the Eternal Prankster quickly sketched, to spook the stuffing out of his team! I can see him doing this. <!-- s
More likely, in that panic it caused, it would have been hurriedly explained away <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> as some supernatural event(like the face of Jesus supposedly appearing on St.Veronica's veil, as a souvenier for wiping his brow on His death walk, to Golgotha....)
The reason(s) the image isn't on the empty ambulance photos or video, is ,
A] that is not the same ambulance; or
B] he or someone else, quickly (!! <!-- s
It's not that far fetched. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Heck, we KNOW he didn't just lay there and play dead---we saw "him" sit up in the helicopter! <!-- s
Anyway, that's my latest picture theory. What and why.... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Incidentally, the other "block of interest" in the ambulance photo, appears to me to be an image of MJ in his Wiz makeup, next to a laughing Elvis and some third image I can't tell...but, like it was already stated by TS, one can see faces anywhere.
In fact, at 400% magnification, also, I see a clear young MJ in some kind of a less crisp "brother's collage" on the GROUND, near the wall, @141, in the red car link TS provided, so, go figure!
*hangs head and sighs*
I must trust that it is all for L.O.V.E., but the events are sometimes not clearly so. I'm just ... exhausted. But I chose to be here and I want to be here, I want to keep playing and I will see this through. I just had to throw the controller across the room once yesterday, but you know I'm going to pick it right back up in an hour. Because I can't not.
Ps:
re: fan hug, I was just being pouty. Should I be on a list for one I would still like it.
Pps: I love blue.
Ppps: @MJ: I'm sorry that I joked about seeing an image of me strangling you in the ambulance pic. When I said "dying" it meant I was dying laughing. That didn't translate from real time convo properly. I like your game very (too) much and it doesn't suck. I will calm down and keep watching.
Bec you can also lose playing games on Xbox. <!-- s
I understand you the way you feel, as soon as we find something concrete we make a step forward and than all of a sudden we hear something of the trial or about Katherine and we go a step backwards, it is frustrating. At least we have eachother here, we are all going through the same thing. We want Michael to come back on his own terms, but as long as we can have a clue that he is alive and fine. We know that he is alive, but we would like to have concrete proof.. Bec,just tell yourself you are not alone. Blessings.
I still say its a pic of a dummy though. And how in the hell did they sell it legally?
This is off topic maybe? But in this video (that Grace provided) when Ben is explaining that the ambulance was in the driveway for over 40 minutes, the gates kept opening and closing, etc.
You can see in the video when the gates are closed (there is a small gap in the gates) I can see Alberto hold his hand up. Ben says during that moment is when they're taking Michael out on the strecher and Ben says you can see it just briefly.
Ben says that the body guards and a FAN are trying to block the cameras view. I didn't see the strecher Ben was talking about but I did see someone stand up from a crouching position and start to walk towards the ambulance. It is very quick but it is a man and I think it was Michael. Take a look yourselves.
The mark is 44-53 secs.
Peace
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Love and Blessings!
Aawww, Bec, that was so SWEET of you!
I knew it was just exhaustion. (or maybe you were in need of a Snickers candy bar with protein, "Diva" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> Have you seen that commercial ad? <!-- s
Not a one of us here has gone 20 months without an unexplainable crying jag, or thrown inanimate objects (mostly soft things, like cat toys and Cheetos) across the room out of exasperation. Your post was cathartic. <!-- s
Now, now, no head hanging--that was cute---there's been NO harm done. <!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: -->
We ALL know you really didn't want to choke our Man. <!-- s
When we do well at things, we naturally expect encouragement, acknowledgement, at least. It can be maddening to not know if you are even on the right track, or should you back track or keep going or stand still... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> CRAP <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
We have been trained by TPTB to look to them trustingly for Truth. We need not look to anyone, really, if we have studied to our satisfaction. (and I pray a lot too <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> )
This is a "huh??! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> where's my dog-treat?" moment for lots of us, when there is nothing--not even a nod from the Teacher. But, I bought my OWN treats/Snickers <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> ) I and I explained it for myself, that, in THIS important case---could be a matter of Life or Death for some people---MJ WANTs us to learn to think for ourselves and KNOW for ourselves, without Teacher say so, that we got it right; nailed the Truth and are confident in it. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
It's sort of like that head shaving, <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> psychological isolation "treatment", "V" gave Evey (V For Vendetta). NOT fun. And strangely, Lonely. With a capital "L".("This ain't no dang game, grrr"--temptation to self-doubt, <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> when we know better <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> ) One MUST get used to shrugging off hurt from imaginations or real loneliness, if one attempts to think differently than the average sheep. Make friends because you will feel married to it. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
I just realized! We are learning/experiencing!!! a priceless lesson in personal FREEDOM, here. O.M.G. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> (I'm going to watch "V" again! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> ) Thank you for YOUR posts, Bec. You give me great ideas! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
There are 7 layers in the image. Slightly moving the layers we have four different pictures.
1. red car
2. leaves turned over
3. case
4. Operator 1
5. MJ's body
6. Operator 2
7. wall of the ambulance
Less important is the hows of the hoax; and as I’ve said before, there are many wrong theories out there regarding how this was pulled off, and how many are in on it, etc. So I am now using the ambulance photo as a starting point, from which I will challenge some of the common theories about the hows of the hoax.
For those who are interested, enjoy the ride. For those who are getting tired of it all: the trial is coming soon, and then the truth. And if you are not interested in revisiting the hows of the hoax, then just skip this thread.
To bec: I’m glad to see that you’re still here. There were so many good comments on the Valentines redirect, that I didn’t want to redirect only one and leave the others out. You know that I did redirect to your thread on TS authenticity {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13541&p=232799#p232795}; and also another one of your comments {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15833&start=50#p268092}. As far as selling the fake photo: it doesn’t matter whether the fake part was by Photoshop, or by a dummy, or any other method whatsoever—you still have the same problem, unless of course MJ really died. I’m not saying that it was Photoshopped (see my upcoming comments); I’m only saying that if you believe in the hoax, then the ambulance photo is fake—one way or another. I do agree with you that there are very clearly a few different original photos; and to Photoshop MJ into all of them separately would be a lot of work, for no apparent reason. All you would need is one good original photo, and then edit MJ into that one only. The same thing also applies to the leaf pattern, which I will discuss more tomorrow.
I went to Lilwendy's http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/www-thisisalsoit-com-to-date/ and found this link for Feb. 26, 2010
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/michael-jackson-dies-age-50-cardiac-arrest-2-26-pm-pdt
There is the famous Hollywood TV video of the ambulance backing out of the driveway. It is embedded in the story and here is the same one on YouTube, so you can see it in a larger format.
[youtube:5zd6mv2g]
Anyway, nothing about this ambulance pic makes any sense. In the video you can see it looks like a photographer might have tried to take a pic from the back windows, but it shows a security guard putting his hands on those windows. Then maybe a photographer tried to take a pic from the right passenger side window, but even if he had it would be the wrong direction for the pic we were shown.
TS it is good to hear from you again, but I'm stumped with this thread topic. I do see a face that looks like Michael. In your blow up of the pic it does resemble foliage of some sort, but I just can't see how it could be a reflection from anything outside or inside the ambulance. The pic seems too clear for being taken through a smoked glass window taken in a split second. So I think the pic is fake and has been cleverly manipulated, for whatever reasons.
Something strange I ran across just moments ago from a friend on Twitter is the link below.
<!-- m -->http://www.urigeller.com/articles/weekl ... 031107.htm<!-- m -->
It is an article by Uri Geller from 2007. In this article he mentions a man named Larry Geller, (Elvis' hairdresser and "spiritual" friend) who wrote a book called “Leaves of Elvis’ Garden”. This book supposedly tells of Elvis' interest in spiritual matters. So the story mentions Elvis and also mentions Criss Angel too. This story caught my attention because of the name of the book and also because Elvis at one time lived right down the street from where MJ was living. Probably nothing, but you never know. I haven't researched this any further. Cheetoman2004 you mentioned the fact that the date/time of this thread equaled 8 which also reminded me of the importance of the number 8 to Elvis.
Love & Light
Touched By An Angel
How amazing to be able to quote you. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I was waiting for your post. Thank you TS. I can not wait to read your upcoming posts. I feel myself like a curious student who wants to learn more and more. Thank you so much for guiding us. We couldn't find this much about the hoax without your help. I learned a lot from you and still learning. I appreciate it a lot. I've been on this rollercoaster for 18 months and I'm never tired of it at all. I'm enjoying the ride. This has been the best, and the most thrilling journey of my life. And it can be done by only one genius. Mr Michael Joe Jackson. I salute you the great Master of Mystery and Magic. Thank You and God Bless.
And about the ambulance picture; as I KNOW that Michael is alive, I never believed the picture was real. But still I would love to hear the details about it and also about the hows of the hoax. Can not wait for your upcoming posts TS. God bless you.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense or if if you have already said it but I'm just not getting it, could you please explain.
I've been hanging out to learn much more about the hows of the hoax. I think it will be fascinating to know more about how exactly Michael has done this. I'll be hanging on for this ride....and look forward to reading more of your comments TS.
Just a thought....LOVE you ALL and LOVE to you TS.
Victoria