<br /> People can believe in what they wish; but we should have all learned by now to question everything; not just believe certain things only because we WANT to, whilst ignoring other important things. <br /><br /> I do believe it is important to question the Bible and everything in general in order to find the truth. Inquiry leads to answers thus: knowledge. <br /><br /> Aussie I agree with your posts, both are informative. And to people who seem confused over whether hell exists or not, justice CAN happen without the existence of hell. The mistranslation of "hell" along with the emission of God's name, account for some of the contradictions and editing that happened within the Bible. It is a well known fact among many religions that the Bible was "corrupted". However, this does not mean all Bibles are corrupted, but many versions are; this is why we must research from all perspectives to find the truth.<br /><br /> The King James Version, NWT and others are 99% accurate with the Dead Sea Scrolls; the only differences are merely translations. Some translations do account for some versions of the Bible to have completely different meaning in some scriptures. Again, this is a reason for some of the "corruption". There is no evidence showing huge portions of the Bible were removed, nor what portions are missing, so that is a baseless claim. If much of the Bible was "missing/removed", it wouldn't be as harmonious as it is, which is strong proof it wasn't written based upon mere memory or human intelligence alone; but is inspired by God.<br /><br /> The Christian Bible consists of the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures, known as the Old Testament, and the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, often called the New Testament. Thus, the Bible is compiled of 66 books written by some 40 men in the course of 1,600 years of history from: 1513 B.C.E. to 98 C.E.<br /><br /> So, the Bible, written by many men over the course of many years is harmonious for a reason. If they based everything off of memory alone, they all had one heck of a memory.<br />
<br /><br />You said exactly what I thought but couldn't translate to words.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
@Gina,<br /><br />we all come from different countries and have different religious backgrounds. <br />But this hoax got us all united somehow. I don't think the intention of this conversation is to force anyone to believe something he doesn't want to believe in. The only thing we can do here is investigate. When I first learned about Illuminati I didn't believe anything, so I started to investigate and finally I came up with the conclusion that they are evil. But when it comes to belief and religion, then it's a completely different thing, I know. Well, I belong to those who believe that the bible has been changed during history. We have been discussing this issue for many days now. And again, no one's intention is to force anyone to believe anything. But again, every theory is subject to investigation. I personally don't take anything literally. So why don't you investigate a little? May be you could find something interesting that you could share with us here. Investigation never harms, on the contrary, it makes you aware of many things. After all we are the hoax investigators, remember??? lolol/
<br /> I have spoken quite a bit about the 2012 agenda in the BACK thread, and have thought about this for some time. If you've noticed TS has taken the time to debunk every theory, except the "second coming" ones; maybe for a reason. We can't ignore this re-direct and all of the obvious connections to Jesus made by BACK, Front, TS and even MJ himself. <br /><br /> The alleged agenda in 2012 is supposed to include alien deception and an alleged "second coming" or "masonic christ" many believe to be Prince William, but Michael actually sounds more suitable. This "second coming" might be used to help usher in a one world religion and new world order.<br /><br /> Looking at all of the "hoax numerology", the numbers used throughout are important occultic numbers, for example: 111-333-666-777-999 with the 911 call on 12:21 (EOW/Dec.21) being the probable date of MJ's return. Add this to the upside down pyramid which isn't actually against the Illuminati, but a symbol they actually use in the occult; both the upside down pyramid and the upright. Also, the clues Dontwalkaway mentions: white rabbit, rainbows, yellow brick road, all of which I know someone talked on the forum about being important symbols to the Illuminati aswell. Given all of this, the fact that a 12 yr old can figure out MJ's alive, how could The Illuminati not know? Exposing them seems like a fanciful idea to me, especially since they're the most powerful people in the world and their own numerology techniques were used in planning this hoax. Really think about how "exposing them" would actually happen; can it? <br /><br /> TS debunked the "murder theory", but didn't debunk "The Illuminati planned the hoax" theory.<br />
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<br /> Exactly emulik. The Bible speaks of a false second coming or person who will be referred to as being "Christ-like" and it will be deceptive; which is why I say for a believer in The Bible, it isn't a good thing. That's also why I'm not understanding some people who use The Bible to say a second coming is a good thing. But that's why it's subjective depending on ones beliefs.<br />
<br /><br />@Suzy7<br />Good point, I think.<br /><br />And thanks for the Earthenigma.wordpress.com link. Very interesting reading. The particular post that you requested from the site is quoted below (my apologies if it's been posted before).<br /><br />(I underlined a couple of paragraphs in the quote that I found interesting, but this post is not an expression of my total agreement or disagreement with what's said in the quote as a whole, as I'm not well-versed on the Illuminati and its alleged agenda. However, JMO: In order for events to manifest in the physical world they must first be manifested [or manipulated] into the collective mindset as a form of belief. That said, a question: Are our worldly and sacred beliefs capable of being manipulated into other fantastic beliefs [for example, MJ being the Second-coming, and so on] to the point that our attention becomes so distracted that we no longer think objectively or, in other words, that we no longer think for ourSelves? Perhaps awareness of this sort of manipulation in general is the primary key--the particular shift in consciousness--that is necessary to maintain freedom of mind and, in turn, physical freedom. And of course, this is not said to offend anyone's beliefs.)<br /><br />
Will Michael Jackson Return in 2012?<br />Posted in conspiracy, Government Lies, Illuminati, Michael Jackson with tags 2012, Age of Aquarius, alive, calendar, conspiracy, elvis, Gospel, History, Illuminati, Jacko, Jason Pfeiffer, Jesus, JFK, mayans, Michael Jackson, Religion, Tabloid Junkie, They Don't Care about Us, tupac on August 23, 2009 by earthenigma <br />
UPDATED CONTENT – READ
Michael Jackson will be back at 11:11 on December 21, 2012
The Gospel of Michael Jackson will be the death of Jesus
<br />Everyone who has researched 2012 is expecting the world to end, to plummet to new lows, for earthquakes to shake and wars to rage. Others think that enlightenment will descend upon us like the soft landing of a beautiful white dove, for our minds to expand, to reach new levels of consciousness…<br />What I can say for sure is that the Illuminati will undoubtedly do something to fulfill the prediction. They probably will orchestrate the next world war, they probably will cause extreme weather and earthquakes with the help of HAARP but I think the Illuminati will use their most useful tool to unite the world into a New World Order – Michael Jackson.<br />The establishment wants you to think MJ is dead – they put a lot of work into this lie but Michael Jackson is alive. If you think Dave Dave wasn’t Michael Jackson on Larry King Live – you’ve got a screw loose. If you think Michael Jackson wasn’t the blonde woman at his tribute show, holding Chris Tucker’s hand, you also have a screw loose.<br />Michael Jackson’s return is imminent and I urge you to watch the media intently over the next 18 months, because the media will prepare you for his ‘second coming.’<br />His re-emergence won’t be for the good of the world though – that’s my worry. MJ has so many adoring fans across the globe already, and I suspect that the media will work to change the perception of the many MJ-haters so they all sympathise with him, so they all love him too. It may come to light that he was set up for the so-called child molestation accusations and some illuminati stooge will take the fall for this. It will come to light that his skin condition was due to someone’s foul-play. We will all come to sympathise with him, we will all hate ourselves for doubting him and we will all love him while thinking he is dead.<br />And then the greatest show on earth will begin. The most ground-breaking CGI spectacle of all time will get the green light. It really will be like ‘the second coming.’<br />If Michael Jackson is indeed alive, he is without doubt the most powerful tool at the illuminati’s disposal and he will be used to full effect.<br />No media-fronting superstar has ever gained his level of popularity and exposure – never – and for that reason, the illuminati will use him for all his worth. He really is bigger than Jesus – you saw the world’s reaction when he died. Nobody in such a high profile position can fake their own death without the illuminati establishment knowing about it – absolutely no chance! He appeared as Dave Dave on Larry King so the establishment could see whether or not he had the ability to fool the world – he succeeded. It was also a way to play with the people of the earth. The Illuminati like playing games – remember that – that is why the illuminati symbolism appears in every mainstream music video.<br />He died in 2009, he will re-emerge in 2012 after 3 years of intense MK-Ultra mind control, 3 years of rehearsals in a secret location for his comeback ‘show.’ The world loves him, but we know what the Illuminati are like. They will use this love and use it to create fear, use it to further their agenda – to complete their agenda in fact, and create the one world, unified government and unified religion.<br />This brings us to what the Illuminati has used Michael Jackson for all along. They want to unify the world with a new world religion – with MJ as the new Christ and savior.<br />We are watching and living through the gospel of Michael Jackson. The story will be written that he died and three years later he rose from the dead to ‘save the world.’ He is the new god-head. Like Jesus he had a life of trials and tribulations. Michael was falsely hated and accused (like Jesus) and lived to tell the tale. He taught about love and has many parables, but nobody listened (like Jesus). He was persecuted. He died because somebody betrayed him (his doctor-bloke) and three years later (like Jesus’ three days) he rose from the dead to ‘heal the world.’ The Jesus Gospel marked the Age of Pisces and the Michael Gospel will mark the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. He will probably arrive with the music of ‘Heal the World.’<br />By December 21, 2012, I imagine the world’s population will be greatly diminished. World Wars, numerous Fukushima’s and major natural disasters will leave humanity turning their back on faith. We will all want something, someone, to help us, to save us and then the illuminati will drop a bomb bigger than Hiroshima. They will drop MJ from the clouds. Everyone will stop and watch the CGI spectacle in awe. Weapons will fall from hands, the earth will stop trembling and Michael will unify the world in love – false love…<br />The illuminati know we are waking up and are beginning to see through their lies so when Michael returns – be wary, be afraid and question whatever the news networks tell us is ‘truth.’ It won’t be a miracle that he returned from the dead because he didn’t even die… I imagine they will say he ‘did die’ but he didn’t – we know that.<br />Many of you will be OVER THE MOON when Michael returns but I strongly believe he will be USED to dupe YOU into a new way of thinking. Don’t trust it. EarthEnigma told you now what is going to happen. If I am right (a big IF), I don’t want to say ‘I told you so.’<br />Michael Jackson will bring about the end to the world’s problems when he returns – but this is what the illuminati are planning. He will bring about a new spiritual era, for he will fulfill the Mayan prophesy, he will be here to save us, but it will all be part of a larger plot, a plan by the elite to gain total control over your lives.<br />
ORIGINAL CONTENT:
<br />The King of Pop, Michael Jackson, died on June 25, 2009. He was one of the most commercially successful singers of all time but we all know he had his fair share of problems. His death is now accepted although there is the conspiracy theory that the man is still alive.<br /><br /><br />Michael Jackson was not a Bad man.<br />I believed he was dead and I genuinely felt sad about it as I was a huge fan of his music growing up. Last week however, my mind changed and I now believe the man could be alive.<br />After reading Telegraph.co.uk last week I was startled by this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/6065010/Clinic-worker-claims-to-have-had-homosexual-love-affair-with-Michael-Jackson.html. It wasn’t the fact that Michael Jackson had a homosexual relationship as people can do as they please; it was the comments made by his lover. The man in question is called Jason Pfeiffer, a clinic worker who claimed he and Michael Jackson were soul mates. He works at the offices of Jackson’s dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein and he and the pop icon had been in regular contact until he died, aged 50, following a cardiac arrest.<br />Mr. Pfeiffer claims that Jackson “completely changed” in the last two weeks of his life. He said that Jackson was “saying goodbyes the week before passing. Everyone was creeped out by it.” This alone is enough for conspiracy theorists to assume he may be alive but it was these comments that did it for me: “Michael got very retrospective in the last few weeks, he was talking about God and the Mayan calendar and the year 2012 – which is when the Mayan calendar ends.”<br />The implications of this comment were staggering for me. 2012 and the Mayan calendar are subjects that have consumed so many people in recent years. It has driven many to write books, change their belief system and look within for spiritual salvation so they are prepared for the spiritual awakening of 2012. I personally have been consumed by the subject and maybe Michael Jackson believed that the people of the world would all wake up and the evil that infiltrates the governments today, that controls the banks, big businesses and media would be destroyed as the people would not be as stupid as they are now. Maybe he believed the Mayans and believed that the spiritual awakening would finally ‘Heal the World.’<br />There is a lot of hype around the Mayan end date and many websites and books claim to have the answer and if Michael Jackson was so hooked on the subject, maybe, just maybe, he faked his own death so that he could return on December 21, 2012 when the world would become enlightened so that he could finally stop being the victim of the Illuminati-controlled corporate media lies.<br />I believe he wanted to get away from this evil, the same evil that has controlled him throughout his entire music career. Listen to the song ‘They Don’t Care About us’ from History and you will hear his views on those powerful media moguls that have controlled him. Michael Jackson was a supremely intelligent man but as the great Immortal Technique has said, if you’re signed to a major label, the label will ultimately tell you what to sing. You have no freedom. Michael was a man who wanted to sing the songs he wanted to sing, but he wasn’t allowed. He was warned by the ‘big men’ to stay in line by being falsely accused of child molestation more than once and I believe they also gave him skin disease to prove they were not to be messed with. In the end, the media wrecked his career because like Tupac (who was falsely accused of rape), Bob Marley and Elvis, he could not be controlled anymore. If such an inspirational man, who has a power over literally millions of fans, turns away from the big men upstairs and begins to highlight their evil, like Elvis, Tupac and JFK, he will inevitably be removed and will be murdered, unless they can scare the singer into submission.<br />Therefore, I believe Michael Jackson faked his own death as he felt he could not be himself anymore. He wished to return in 2012 when the Mayan inscriptions say the world will be a different place and love will encompass the globe. This is the only society a person like him, who has been persecuted by the media for 40 years, can live in and I believe he is placing his trust in the Mayans as he waits for his time to come back into the spotlight.<br />If we are all awoken from our slumber in 2012 as the Mayans said, if we all finally see the evil conducted by the corrupt governments and the Illuminati and if we rebel and fight back against that evil, then the world will be a better place and maybe Michael Jackson will return so that he can be himself and tell us all the true story of his life.<br />Jackson was so influential that he was never allowed to be himself. His reputation was tarnished on more than one occasion but the man still kept his fans. The corporate media spread its lies about him but if any of us have brains we should never believe the media. Michael Jackson was not a pedophile, he was not ‘Wacko Jacko;’ he was a normal man who happened to be an amazing singer, dancer and performer. The media tried to tarnish his reputation throughout his life as he became bigger than Jesus, and after songs such as ‘They don’t care about us’ and ‘Tabloid Junkie’ on the album History, they tried even harder to discredit him, but they failed.
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<br /><br />Thank you both for posting all of this!<br /><br />I think this was a VERY interesting read! I’m surprised that these postings did not spark a lengthy discussion. This theory is so logical that it’s scary. lol<br /><br />But this whole theory is based on this >><br /><br />
“Nobody in such a high profile position can fake their own death without the illuminati establishment knowing about it – absolutely no chance!”
<br /><br />The above statement is just an assumption. And I beg to differ.<br /><br />I do think that it was possible for Michael to get away from the ‘System’ without its knowledge. God is protecting Michael and God is on his side. So YES someone like Michael can get away from the ‘System’ successfully with the protection of Jehovah God. God will even ‘force’ the wicked to do His bidding. This can explain all of the ‘high powered’ individuals that were necessary to pull this elaborate hoax off.<br /><br />
“TS debunked the "murder theory", but didn't debunk "The Illuminati planned the hoax" theory.”
<br /><br />Maybe because there is a ‘certain’ amount of truth to the theory? I’m very open to all possibilities.<br /><br />Even if this is the agenda, Michael has become aware of it but has played along with the ‘System’. He is going along with the ‘plan’ and is utilizing all of the resources the ‘System’ has to offer. When the time comes, he will betray the ‘System’. He has purposefully left us clues to debunk the idea that he was murdered. Therefore, it cannot be considered a ‘miraculous’ resurrection when he comes back because he never died in the first place.<br /><br />If Michael is serving the system as this person claims to believe, then he would not have left clues for us to decipher because as we all know, the ‘System’ leaves no loose ends when it comes to such an enormous agenda. His ‘death’ would have been so convincing that not even the most savvy of investigators would have seen any inconsistencies… and obvious ones at that.<br /><br />Either way, I’m also gonna stay on this MJ train all the way till the end! If loving MJ is ‘wrong’ I don’t wanna be ‘right’. That’s how strongly I feel about this. I know we are on this journey together for a good reason.<br /><br />I hope that TS addresses this theory soon though. It would be interesting to see what he has to say.<br /> <br />PS: Oh yeah… And for all of you guys that are debating the ‘HELL’ issue, here is an interesting video I came across a while back that talks about the origin of the concept of hell. <br /><br />
WhiteNight<br />I do think that it was possible for Michael to get away from the ‘System’ without its knowledge. God is protecting Michael and God is on his side. So YES someone like Michael can get away from the ‘System’ successfully with the protection of Jehovah God. God will even ‘force’ the wicked to do His bidding. This can explain all of the ‘high powered’ individuals that were necessary to pull this elaborate hoax off…<br /><br />If Michael is serving the system as this person claims to believe, then he would not have left clues for us to decipher because as we all know, the ‘System’ leaves no loose ends when it comes to such an enormous agenda. His ‘death’ would have been so convincing that not even the most savvy of investigators would have seen any inconsistencies… and obvious ones at that.<br /><br />Either way, I’m also gonna stay on this MJ train all the way till the end! If loving MJ is ‘wrong’ I don’t wanna be ‘right’. That’s how strongly I feel about this. I know we are on this journey together for a good reason.<br /> <br /> I hope that TS addresses this theory soon though. It would be interesting to see what he has to say.
<br /><br />I totally agree with you!<br /> “no loose ends” I had to laugh when I read that because it was an important clue in the Sherlock Holmes 2 movie that I just went to see yesterday!<br />Come to think now, there’s a hoax related message in that movie.<br /><br />
<br /><br />This evil professor and Sherlock are both stunningly brilliant in their ability to think many moves ahead how their opponent will think/act (like chess). Their brilliance in reality seems to be like superhero ability (supernatural) only brain as well as braun. So though they each think they have outfoxed the other, in the end Sherlock outfoxed him in a couple of things, and brought him down. This is just like the story of Michael Jackson and the Illuminati/TPTB. Remember when TS asked us whether the Illuminati knew of MJ’s hoax plans and murdered him in the end? Go and see the movie, and this parallel—it’s great! Here’s the trailer.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHBHMtl9YWw&ob=av3e
Good post WhiteNight, and thanks for bringing up this theory again. It is so logical it's scary; which is why I think people didn't want to discuss it lol. I did hope it would inspire more conversation, but some brushed it off very quickly.<br /><br /> I brought this theory to our attention because in almost every thread someone made a "Jesus connection" to MJ or insinuated he is the second coming without any evidence. They also used the Bible to support false theories! Since there is no evidence in the Bible of a second coming or Christ-like figure who will be like MJ or any other man born on earth again, what evidence is there if any, to support a *false* second coming? The Bible does speak much of false prophets and false 'Christ-like' figures popping up in the end of days. So, my point in mentioning this theory is: if I or anyone were to believe in ANY second coming theory, it is this one; as this theory is the only "second coming theory" that has both logic and evidence to support it. However I never said I believed in this theory; I don't believe in *any* second coming theories, but specifically ones other than this, as there is no evidence supporting them. I'd also like to see TS comment on this.<br /><br /> I do think it's possible for MJ to have faked his death without the Illuminati's knowledge of it, but they have to know something; we are all here for a reason. I doubt huge corporations would participate if it meant them being exposed; so I think the "exposing evil" theory is only true to an extent. The system is too intricate and large to be exposed in it's entirety, so I think the exposing part will be of the general surface level kind for example: the media, common government conspiracies, religion etc. Questioning everything should be an inevitable by-product of the hoax.<br /><br /> Also, everyone should watch that video about hell, it's both good and supported with proof. Hell is one of the biggest contradictions in religion, and I think one of the reasons that cause people to dismiss the Bible and religion in general. <br /><br />
<br />@Gina,<br /><br />we all come from different countries and have different religious backgrounds. <br />But this hoax got us all united somehow. I don't think the intention of this conversation is to force anyone to believe something he doesn't want to believe in. The only thing we can do here is investigate. When I first learned about Illuminati I didn't believe anything, so I started to investigate and finally I came up with the conclusion that they are evil. But when it comes to belief and religion, then it's a completely different thing, I know. Well, I belong to those who believe that the bible has been changed during history. We have been discussing this issue for many days now. And again, no one's intention is to force anyone to believe anything. But again, every theory is subject to investigation. I personally don't take anything literally. So why don't you investigate a little? May be you could find something interesting that you could share with us here. Investigation never harms, on the contrary, it makes you aware of many things. After all we are the hoax investigators, remember??? lolol/<br />
<br /><br />Investigate what? If the Bible was changed?<br />How can I do it if I don't know the ancient language of the scripts and I don't have acces to those scripts?<br />Investigate what OTHERS say about it it's not reliable source to me.<br />
<br />@Gina,<br /><br />we all come from different countries and have different religious backgrounds. <br />But this hoax got us all united somehow. I don't think the intention of this conversation is to force anyone to believe something he doesn't want to believe in. The only thing we can do here is investigate. When I first learned about Illuminati I didn't believe anything, so I started to investigate and finally I came up with the conclusion that they are evil. But when it comes to belief and religion, then it's a completely different thing, I know. Well, I belong to those who believe that the bible has been changed during history. We have been discussing this issue for many days now. And again, no one's intention is to force anyone to believe anything. But again, every theory is subject to investigation. I personally don't take anything literally. So why don't you investigate a little? May be you could find something interesting that you could share with us here. Investigation never harms, on the contrary, it makes you aware of many things. After all we are the hoax investigators, remember??? lolol/ <br />
<br /><br />Investigate what? If the Bible was changed?<br />How can I do it if I don't know the ancient language of the scripts and I don't have acces to those scripts?<br />Investigate what OTHERS say about it it's not reliable source to me.<br />
<br /><br />Investigate what a variety of contemporary others, on both sides of the fence, have researched regarding the ancient language of the script(ure)s. Those worthy of investigation provide a detailed list of hard-copy sources within some form of bibliography. (Then the Bible no longer remains its own source of confirmation, as well as no longer remains the sole source of self-knowledge, based only on faith.) <br /><br />Peace and Love.
Hello and Merry Christmas to all,<br /><br />There is this scientist Nassim Haramein (who's also called by some "the new Einstein") who talked about his theory re the Ark of the Covenant in a conference held in the Summer of 2004. <br />He thinks the Ark of the Covenant is some very advanced technology. Also he links it to Ethiopia, Illuminati, etc.<br /><br />Here is where you can hear all about it starting with 2:21:45 till the end of the video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362758657384449741#docid=-307198015401224128
Just some thoughts:<br /><br />Christianity is not a NEW "religion" ...it's a Relationship. It's been around since The Beginning when God created the world; walking & talking in the Garden with Adam & Eve freely one on one before Satan deceived Eve & sin entered into the world. Judaism & Christianity are an extension of that SAME relationship. Christianity IS a Jewish sect. Religion is what man invented... in many forms for man to work his way to God; Jesus spoke against this. Sadly the church as a whole is quite different from the early church of the Jewish Apostles & Synagogues. <br /> "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he; before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior." <br />(taken from Isaiah 43)<br /><br /> "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any...(Is. 44) "They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; they are their own witnesses; they see not, not know; that they may be ashamed. I Am the Lord, and there is no other, apart from me there is no god. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of it's setting men may know there is none besides me. I AM the Lord, and there is no other...woe to him who quarrels with his maker,..does the clay say to the potter, 'what are you making?', Does your work say, 'he has no hands?'...It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it...for this is what the Lord says...I am the Lord, and there is no other. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save...Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I AM God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked; Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." <br />(taken from Is. 45 NIV)<br /> <br />The Bible is God’s Word & Truth. God's Word (Old & New Test.) are the inspired Word of God without error in the original writings. Yes there's many modern translations; but truth is truth and remains unchanged since 80 AD. This has been proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls almost word for word. Mystery, Secret or Esoteric interpretations are not required. The Bible's cannon has been never questioned; it was and is in total agreement...contrary views are a modern argument. The Apocrypha are not included in the Bible by most Christians because not all of them are in sync. with the rest of scripture. The ancient Jews didn't accept these books as part of the Old Test.; as such, Jesus & the early Church didn't recognize them as scripture either. Some are historical writings, some are Mythology, but others are outright fakes & lies used by Mystery Religions to cast doubt on the rest of the Bible. While interesting to read they were left out to prevent heresy which was a problem in the early church after the Apostles died out. The Gnostic books are outright lies... <br /><br />"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private (secret) interpretations." II Peter 1:20 <br />"Come you near to me, hear you this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there am I..." Isaiah 48 <br /> <br /> * More than 5,600 Greek manuscripts contain parts or all of the NT...only 40 lines are questionable (two verses); the rest is in total harmony. The Hindu Mahabharata has 2,600 questionable lines. Homer's Iliad 764.<br /> * There's only a 30-250 yr. gap between the original writings of the NT. & the 1st copy. Aristotle has 1,400 yr. gap. Plato 1,200 yrs. Homer 500 yrs.<br /><br />We are saved by Grace NOT works. This was the reason for the Protestant Reformation. It's a free gift; you don't have to work to earn it! The price was paid by Jesus; all you have to do is choose to believe. The Law given in the OT was to teach us we are not perfect; we can't do it ourselves, no one can keep the law...but a perfect One was coming to pay the price of man's redemption. Purgatory isn't part of God's plan either...but a Catholic teaching of the16th century; it's not in scripture. But Hell does exist; it was created for Satan & his angles not man. For a great read try Christianity for Dummies...good stuff. And if you want to know Christianity in a nut shell read the book of Romans. It's the "Master Key" to the whole of the New Testament. <br /><br />Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by Grace you have been saved through faith. It is not from yourself or anything you've done, but the gift of God." The Roman Roads: Romans 3:10...Romans 3:23...Romans 5:12...Romans5-8...Romans 6:23...Romans 10:13...Revelation 3:20...Romans 10 9-10.<br /><br />God created man with a free will. This is what separates us from the animals in creation. People know right from wrong. Evil & sin is the result of this free will and what we choose to do with it. Satan/the Devil/Lucifer is just a God-wannabe. A great Liar, fallen Angel, deceiver & tempter with inside knowledge...who thought himself equal with God and rebelled; this is why he is cast out. He's a COUNTERFEIT. Everything he does and says is a counterfeit of something God said or did; and continues to this day. This is where all various man-made religions & Paganism comes from.<br /><br />Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me." John 14:6 <br />"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." I Tim. 2:5 <br /><br />There are no other "mediators"... <br />This includes Priests, Rabbis, Pastors, Saints, Mary, friends, dead relatives, Angels, or participation in various religious ceremonies & sacraments. Sacraments developed gradually during the medieval times. These are beautiful expressions of worship...but do not "save". They are the outward expression of an inward faith. Dogma, the Law (oral or written), the Universal church or any other "church" claiming the only way you can get to Jesus to be saved is by going directly through them & receiving their sacraments are missing it too...Jesus did not teach this. Jesus did not appoint the Apostles as 'gatekeepers of heaven' between himself and the people. Nor did he mandate rules for salvation. Catholics believe the sacraments are the vehicle God uses to dispense his saving grace. As a result, sacraments are required in order for a person to receive salvation. Protestants view these requirements as legalism; thus the Reformation. Jesus is our High Priest. There is no other mediator. Again; these are beautiful "expressions" of worship not to be taken lightly weather Catholic, Protestant or Jew. Going to Church or Synagogue is wonderful, and to be encouraged for our Spiritual growth; but it's not what makes you a Christian, "saves" you, or automatically guarantees you a place in Heaven. It's believing and accepting Jesus is the Messiah promised by God. <br />"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Acts 16:31 <br /><br />He is the Messiah. Our High Priest, the fulfillment of God's law, plan, & payment of our redemption & fulfillment of the109 prophecies given to his people in the Old Test.
Greek and especially Hebrew are VERY precise languages. Heptadic structure proves the Bible was written outside our time domain. Men may have penned it; but God wrote it. It is statistically impossible with all these codes do be a creation of man. Check out this site: http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp<br /><br />Missler - Bible Heptadic Structure - Pt 1 <br /><br /><br />Pt 2:<br /> /><br />YESHUA NAME AND CRUCIFIXION CODES IN THE HEBREW BIBLE <br /> /><br />Mark Biltz: Ancient Hebrew Picture Language At The Time Of Moses <br /> /><br />Gospel In Genesis Generation - Pt 1<br /> /><br />Authentication of the Bible<br /> /><br />How We Got Our Bible: New Testament<br /> /><br /> :-*
<br />MsTrinity333. Thanks for the information. You're the second person who said the christians believe it will be same exact Jesus from over 2000 years ago in his glorified body. What is a glorified body ? The problem is no one really knows what the Jesus from 200O years ago looks like, sounds like or acts like !!!! To me it's the same thing as trying to find the true ark !!! We have to figure out what to look for. The only thing there is leaving an outline of what Jesus may have looked like is the shroud of turin. We don't know if that is real either. It may be a hoax to trick people to follow someone "evil". <br />Did anyone see the theory about Prince William having altered DNA or cloned to match the shroud of Turin ? I think we were talking about it on the thread "Michael Jackson and Religious Symbolism", several months ago. <br /><br />Ms. Trinity333 I will listen/read your information. Maybe that will help. You always have great stuff !!!!!!<br /><br />Love, and Merry Christmas. <br />
<br /><br />Thank you so much. bearhug<br /><br />I FINALLY got caught up! Here's some info I gathered this am on GODTV; I hope this helps answer some of your questions. They have excellent people on Apocalyse & The End Times series addressing the NWO, fall of the dollar, coming Anti-Christ etc... It is worth the watch! Also The History Channel ran a 2hr special over Christmas on the Shroud of Turin; IT WAS EXCELLENT! But sadly they wont be running it again until April... I recorded it on DTV but unfortunately nobody on YT has it uploaded. <br /><br />All of The Book of Revelation Chuck Missler: http://www.god.tv/node/2617<br />All of Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 1:http://www.god.tv/node/192<br />Apocalypse & the End Times - Series 2:http://www.god.tv/node/204<br />Watch Full Episodes - Alien Encounters, Chuck Missler: http://www.god.tv/node/371<br />Chuck Missler Biotech The Sorcerers New Apprentice Session 1/3 Biotechnology: /><br />End Times GODTV LIVE STREAM:http://www.god.tv/channel/end-times<br />REASON TO BELIEVE; The mission of Reasons To Believe is to show that science and faith are, and always will be, allies, not enemies.http://www.reasons.org/<br /><br />History Channel Special Examines Shroud Of Turin:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/the-real-face-of-jesus-hi_n_519825.html<br />TESTING THE FAITH Is this the face of Jesus Christ? Figure of crucified man on Shroud comes to life:http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=131177<br />Read more: Is this the face of Jesus Christ?http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=131177#ixzz1hlAszOSR<br />Jesus! Was the Shroud of Turin created by a supernatural "flash of light"?:http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/12/shroud_of_turin_--_working.php<br /><br />The Enigma of the Shroud of Turin<br />Probably the most extraordinary object you will ever encounter: Videohttp://www.shroud-enigma.com/<br /><br /><br />History Channel GOD vs. Satan The Final Battle: <br /><br />Blessings to you
<br />@Gina,<br /><br />we all come from different countries and have different religious backgrounds. <br />But this hoax got us all united somehow. I don't think the intention of this conversation is to force anyone to believe something he doesn't want to believe in. The only thing we can do here is investigate. When I first learned about Illuminati I didn't believe anything, so I started to investigate and finally I came up with the conclusion that they are evil. But when it comes to belief and religion, then it's a completely different thing, I know. Well, I belong to those who believe that the bible has been changed during history. We have been discussing this issue for many days now. And again, no one's intention is to force anyone to believe anything. But again, every theory is subject to investigation. I personally don't take anything literally. So why don't you investigate a little? May be you could find something interesting that you could share with us here. Investigation never harms, on the contrary, it makes you aware of many things. After all we are the hoax investigators, remember??? lolol/ <br />
<br /><br />Investigate what? If the Bible was changed?<br />How can I do it if I don't know the ancient language of the scripts and I don't have acces to those scripts?<br />Investigate what OTHERS say about it it's not reliable source to me.<br />
<br /><br />Investigate what a variety of contemporary others, on both sides of the fence, have researched regarding the ancient language of the script(ure)s. Those worthy of investigation provide a detailed list of hard-copy sources within some form of bibliography. (Then the Bible no longer remains its own source of confirmation, as well as no longer remains the sole source of self-knowledge, based only on faith.) <br /><br />Peace and Love. <br />
<br /><br />It's more important to read the Bible.<br />I don't have time for everything.
Very well defined Bible opinions don't give us the answer though whether Michael is alive and coming back. MJ could be compared with Jesus because he is an extraordinary man indeed, but we somewhat deviated from the the important questions what happened to MJ, is he alive, which I still believe he is, and if he plans to come back.<br />If you go deeper by Bible, it will eventually turn out that MJ is dead because he was beloved son of a God who took him back after people enough tortured him. So, what is the main point of the subject matter in here anyway? All I read is a comparison.
<br /> Good post WhiteNight, and thanks for bringing up this theory again. It is so logical it's scary; which is why I think people didn't want to discuss it lol. I did hope it would inspire more conversation, but some brushed it off very quickly.<br /><br /> I brought this theory to our attention because in almost every thread someone made a "Jesus connection" to MJ or insinuated he is the second coming without any evidence. They also used the Bible to support false theories! Since there is no evidence in the Bible of a second coming or Christ-like figure who will be like MJ or any other man born on earth again, what evidence is there if any, to support a *false* second coming? The Bible does speak much of false prophets and false 'Christ-like' figures popping up in the end of days. So, my point in mentioning this theory is: if I or anyone were to believe in ANY second coming theory, it is this one; as this theory is the only "second coming theory" that has both logic and evidence to support it. However I never said I believed in this theory; I don't believe in *any* second coming theories, but specifically ones other than this, as there is no evidence supporting them. I'd also like to see TS comment on this.<br /><br /> I do think it's possible for MJ to have faked his death without the Illuminati's knowledge of it, but they have to know something; we are all here for a reason. I doubt huge corporations would participate if it meant them being exposed; so I think the "exposing evil" theory is only true to an extent. The system is too intricate and large to be exposed in it's entirety, so I think the exposing part will be of the general surface level kind for example: the media, common government conspiracies, religion etc. Questioning everything should be an inevitable by-product of the hoax.<br /><br />Also, everyone should watch that video about hell, it's both good and supported with proof. Hell is one of the biggest contradictions in religion, and I think one of the reasons that cause people to dismiss the Bible and religion in general. <br /><br />
<br /><br />[size=14pt]@SUZY<;br /><br />mighty fine post there my dear. i have said it once and i will say it again. i love you suzy7[/size]<br /><br />respect/ respect/ respect/<br /><br /><br />for those that are confused about suzy posting about the lack of a second coming - we have both learned through the bible, there will not be a physical second coming of jesus to the earth or a second or new messiah. this 'second coming if you will' has already been and it was in 1914 when satan and demons were cast out of the heavens and gods messianic kingdom came into power in the heavens. (rev.12:9) So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.<br /><br />when Jesus told his followers to pray, “let your kingdom come,” it was clear that the kingdom had not come at that time. did it come when jesus ascended to heaven? no, because both peter and paul said that after Jesus was resurrected, the prophecy at Psalm 110:1 was fulfilled in him: “the utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” (Acts 2:32-34; Hebrews 10:12, 13) There was a waiting period.<br /> <br />under Kingdom rule, God’s will is going to be done on earth as it is in heaven. for how long? during the 19th century, sincere Bible students calculated that the waiting period would end in 1914. world events that began in 1914 confirm that the calculation of these sincere Bible students was correct. the fulfillment of bible prophecy shows that in 1914, christ became king and god’s heavenly kingdom began to rule. hence, we are living in the “short period of time” that satan has left. (Revelation 12:12; Psalm 110:2) we can also say with certainty that soon God’s Kingdom will act to cause God’s will to be done on earth.<br /><br /><br />now regarding those calculations that bring us to 1914...<br /><br />DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?<br /> <br />As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,” King James Version] are fulfilled.” Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.<br /> <br />How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.<br /><br />When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”—Daniel 4:10-16.<br /> <br />In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?<br /> <br />Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.<br /><br />The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.*—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.<br /> <br />Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.<br /> <br />
<br /><br />* From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years. <br /><br /><br /><br />this means that we are already in the LAST DAYS - waiting for god to intervene, get rid of the wicked and transform the earth for those who are saved and resurected.<br />
MsTrinity333<br />If salvation is a free gift, then adding on a condition that you must believe, to be saved from the fires of hell—means it’s not free. If Christ died for the sins of all man-kind—then they are ALL covered for. Do you love your children unconditionally, or only if they obey you? Do you punish them by torturing them if they disobey, forever? I know you believe the orthodox interpretation of the Bible, which is where I was for 40 years. I am not trying to criticize you, but share with you my own agony of search.<br /><br />
<br />Jesus says in Matthew 25:<br />31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.<br /> 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’<br /> 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’<br /> 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’<br /> 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’<br /> 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’<br /> 45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’<br />46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”<br />
<br /><br />Have you helped everyone in need that passed your way all your life? What if you missed one panhandler, or guy in prison? Sorry, you didn’t make it, even though you said the sinner’s prayer. It’s just wasn’t enough.<br /><br />
<br />Jesus says in Matthew 7:<br />13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. <br />21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’<br />
<br /><br />What if all you did in your Christian life of service and devotion to Jesus and God wasn't enough? Do you know for absolute sure? He's looking for perfection, it would seem.<br /><br />It was these very verses which sent me on my journey way back. I agonized over what if, crying on the floor, laying in bed thinking that if I should die in my sleep that I might instantly go to hell where I would be screaming in agony forever and ever and ever and ever, with no chance to escape and no one to comfort me. Not only me, but I knew so many that had not even said the sinner’s prayer and I agonized over what they faced when they died. I cried to the Lord for 3 days straight, and then I started reading online the real understanding of “hell”, and on to the next troubling Scripture, and the next…<br /><br />The sounds of hell:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbrbx0ApQ8k<br /><br />Sounds of hell debunked:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd6kxVS8ZlQ<br /><br /><br />The true understanding of our Creator of love, will be unveiled in the future, I believe, but it's not time yet. The world will love this Creator, though they naturally reject the supreme "evil" of the Biblical God. Who loves a dictator? But it's a hoax, layers of truth, a story-line, a HIS-story drama. JMO
<br />@Gina,<br /><br />we all come from different countries and have different religious backgrounds. <br />But this hoax got us all united somehow. I don't think the intention of this conversation is to force anyone to believe something he doesn't want to believe in. The only thing we can do here is investigate. When I first learned about Illuminati I didn't believe anything, so I started to investigate and finally I came up with the conclusion that they are evil. But when it comes to belief and religion, then it's a completely different thing, I know. Well, I belong to those who believe that the bible has been changed during history. We have been discussing this issue for many days now. And again, no one's intention is to force anyone to believe anything. But again, every theory is subject to investigation. I personally don't take anything literally. So why don't you investigate a little? May be you could find something interesting that you could share with us here. Investigation never harms, on the contrary, it makes you aware of many things. After all we are the hoax investigators, remember??? lolol/ <br />
<br /><br />Investigate what? If the Bible was changed?<br />How can I do it if I don't know the ancient language of the scripts and I don't have acces to those scripts?<br />Investigate what OTHERS say about it it's not reliable source to me.<br />
<br /><br />Investigate what a variety of contemporary others, on both sides of the fence, have researched regarding the ancient language of the script(ure)s. Those worthy of investigation provide a detailed list of hard-copy sources within some form of bibliography. (Then the Bible no longer remains its own source of confirmation, as well as no longer remains the sole source of self-knowledge, based only on faith.) <br /><br />Peace and Love. <br />
<br /><br />It's more important to read the Bible.<br />I don't have time for everything.<br />
do of that treat all this? question everything that looks and reads<br /><br /><br />
Through the history of mankind, our species has faced the chilling fact that we do not know who we are, or towards where we are going in this ocean of chaos, has been the authorities, politics. religious, educational authorities who have sought to comfort us by giving us orders, rules, regulations, informing and forming our minds with their point of view on reality. To think for yourself first you should question authority ~ Timothy Leary
<br />Just a short note ...<br /><br />Haven't been here on the forum much since 11-30; and I have not had time to read the threads. I'm in the middle of an important project. But I will be back next week sometime to catch up on the threads, and work on finishing level 7.<br /><br /> typing/<br />
<br /><br />Hmmm TS in the above post on December 12th from TIAI November 11 said he/she would be back next week to work on finishing off Level 7.....the only thing which TS did in that week was the redirect to the pictures of the Ark of the Covenant on December 21st.<br /><br />Might not mean anything........or it might mean alot.<br /><br /> smiley_spider
<br />Hello and Merry Christmas to all,<br /><br />There is this scientist Nassim Haramein (who's also called by some "the new Einstein") who talked about his theory re the Ark of the Covenant in a conference held in the Summer of 2004. <br />He thinks the Ark of the Covenant is some very advanced technology. Also he links it to Ethiopia, Illuminati, etc.<br /><br />Here is where you can hear all about it starting with 2:21:45 till the end of the video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362758657384449741#docid=-307198015401224128<br />
<br /><br /><br />Thank you so much veronicafall for posting this!<br /><br /><br /><br />I just spent some time listening to this man, Nassim Haramein, and found it very interesting. This man was also featured on the Thrive video, which I watched a few weeks ago, and that some here thought that MJ could be involved with. This speaker, similar to the main narrator in Thrive, talks about this Tetrahedron (not sure of spelling or understanding). He links it to the Ark of the Covenant, the Kabbala, the pyramids, the Eden Tree of Life, the Knights Templar, Isis in Egypt, the Freemasons, the Illuminati, Jesus, E. T.'s and much more, which are all pretty much themes that Michael has been bringing up throughout this entire hoax, in symbols, stories and clues, etc. This is rather all new information to me, but seems pretty important. It seems huge. I am willing to learn more about this. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />http://metalsexpress.wordpress.com/a-star-in-our-heart/ <br /><br /><br />For all you members here who are not particularly into studying the Bible, could you guys help us dig for understanding in this?<br /><br /><br />Perhaps this relates the Ark of the Covenant to 7c, which TS did not 'seem' to complete. Perhaps he's waiting for us to dig deeper, perhaps even out of our comfort zone. <br /><br /><br />Atheist, agnostics, and all others, lets unite and try to connect the dots, if this may yield some answers. beerchug <br /><br /><br />Veronicafall, can you tell us anything more you know about this? Thanks!<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />Very well defined Bible opinions don't give us the answer though whether Michael is alive and coming back. MJ could be compared with Jesus because he is an extraordinary man indeed, but we somewhat deviated from the the important questions what happened to MJ, is he alive, which I still believe he is, and if he plans to come back.<br />If you go deeper by Bible, it will eventually turn out that MJ is dead because he was beloved son of a God who took him back after people enough tortured him. So, what is the main point of the subject matter in here anyway? All I read is a comparison.<br />
<br /><br />Don't forget the rest of the story: he came back to life and had an immortal body. I may be wrong, and this may be off-putting to some, but I think Michael is trying to get the focus off of him and onto his Messiah (Jesus/Yeshua/etc...); hence, all the biblical parallels. Those "important questions" you want answered are the same ones believers (of a different kind) have been asking about Jesus. He did have a body when he resurrected (aka CAME BACK to life); so technically, if we do "go deeper by the bible", Jesus is alive ergo Michael is alive; the kings are coming back. <br /><br />To tie this in with something else I see being discussed: the same Jesus that resurrected is the same Jesus that's coming back. After his resurrection, according to scripture, he spent a 40-day period with his apostles. He showed himself to one of his doubting apostles at that time (Thomas) who even poked his wounds. He had a physical body when he ascended; his old body was transformed into a new imperishable one (but he kept his scars as proof). <br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]Acts 1:3[/size]<br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br />[size=8pt]3[/size] After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.<br /><br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]John 20:24-29[/size]<br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br />Jesus Appears to Thomas<br /><br /> [size=8pt]24[/size] Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. [size=8pt]25[/size] So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”<br /><br /> [size=8pt]26[/size] A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” [size=8pt]27[/size] Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”<br /><br /> [size=8pt]28[/size] Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”<br /><br /> [size=8pt]29[/size] Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”<br /><br />[size=8pt]Footnotes:<br />a. John 20:24 Thomas (Aramaic) and Didymus (Greek) both mean twin.[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The following verses speak about the mortal body being transformed into an imperishable one.<br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]Philippians 3:20-21[/size]<br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br />[size=8pt]20[/size] But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, [size=8pt]21[/size] who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.<br /><br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]1 Corinthians 15:50-54[/size]<br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br />[size=8pt]50[/size] I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. [size=8pt]51[/size] Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— [size=8pt]52[/size] in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. [size=8pt]53[/size] For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. [size=8pt]54[/size] When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[a]<br /><br />[size=8pt]Footnotes:<br />a. 1 Corinthians 15:54 Isaiah 25:8[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />I think that is the "real life" thriller Michael is talking about.<br /><br /><br /><br />edit: wanted to add that if Jesus is currently in the temple of heaven functioning as high priest (Hebrews 9), then that also means he has an imperishable body, because as we see mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom"; you can't enter heaven with a flesh and blood body, only the imperishable body can.
Excellent post Melody... <br />I forgot to address the fact that Jesus walked the Earth after his Resurrection being seen by hundreds(?) if I'm not mistaken, not just his disciples. Wish I could find my resource on that. It was no secret.<br /><br />MJonMind; God is a God of LOVE; but also a God of Righteousness & Judgement. Sin & light can not exist together. He loves us so much unconditionally that he paid the price of sin for us; but he will NOT violate our free will... The choice is ours; either we except him or we don't, either way every knee will bow & tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.<br /><br />There IS a very real PHYSICAL return coming; and it wasn't in 1914 or whatever. <br />Revelation 19: 11-16 <br /> And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (John 14: 7-11) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. <br /><br />This is the the climax of Armageddon; It hasn't happened yet... neither has his 1000 yr Millennial Kingdom Rein, or the Great White Throne Judgement, but anyone who can read the signs of the times knows we are at the doorstep of the coming Seven Year Tribulation. Let's not be like the foolish virgins looking for oil at the last minute and miss the party. The Bridegroom is coming; be ready.<br /><br />Same can be said of Michael; either we believe he's coming back or we don't... Like the song at his memorial; Soon and very soon we are going to see the King.<br />I find it interesting that TS' redirect went back to the question; What does the true Ark look like? Is it really just a Gold box or something more? For me it looks like Jesus.<br /><br /> bearhug
Are you referring to the theory that Christianity is an Egyptian myth based on the theology you just posted. I have been affronted with this debate before and simply don’t believe it.
Grant Jeffrey covers the True Ark; as in the physical one in part two http://www.god.tv/node/192 <br />I started with part one... this guy is one of the best of the best concerning Bible Prophecy & End Times study, this whole series has guests from the very top of this field. It's been a while since I've gone through them so I am personally going through all the links I have posted myself picking up important information I have forgotten. It's very interesting, in part two he says they have it; the physical Ark. It's been brought back from Ethiopia. <br /><br /> bearhug
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."<br /><br />* From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years. <br /><br />