I agree with you on that, the whole thing is just not black nor white, there is a huge twighlight zone in the middle. But I just don't think, for example, he went to court in pyjamas just to manipulate and to be a puppetmaster. This was serious business, and I don't think he would pull such a 'prank' before the eyes of the world on such a delicate occasion: the trial was about being a childmolester or not (whether the whole trial was real or not). I think it was a very, very degrading experience for him and NOT comparable to wheelchair-day. THAT day served a smokescreen for his upcoming, yet not announced This is It concerts. Not about being a criminal or not.
<br /><br />I don't believe for one second that a man of the likes of MJ dared to appear wearing a pajamas at the court room if it weren't to fool the media as Jermaine said, I believe Jermaine when he says Michael was a master of media manipulation.
<br />Anyways, Everyone has their own right to believe what they want. whatever convinces them most.<br />
<br /><br />True ofcourse. I guess I'm having a pretty hard time with the swift from serious reasons for the hoax and JUSTICE for Michael to Michael the prankster on a large scale, since MANY MANY years, in fact, was it really Michael or Prince, was he really burnt and was the trial fake etc.etc. My, Tom Sneddon could have been killed by angry fans for nothing now the trial was all but part of the plan. Maybe TS doesn't exist at all either. <br /><br />But ofcourse, again my opinion and I do appreciate other views, I'm not claiming I'm 'in the know'!
I agree with you on that, the whole thing is just not black nor white, there is a huge twighlight zone in the middle. But I just don't think, for example, he went to court in pyjamas just to manipulate and to be a puppetmaster. This was serious business, and I don't think he would pull such a 'prank' before the eyes of the world on such a delicate occasion: the trial was about being a childmolester or not (whether the whole trial was real or not). I think it was a very, very degrading experience for him and NOT comparable to wheelchair-day. THAT day served a smokescreen for his upcoming, yet not announced This is It concerts. Not about being a criminal or not.
<br /><br />I don't believe for one second that a man of the likes of MJ dared to appear wearing a pajamas at the court room if it weren't to fool the media as Jermaine said, I believe Jermaine when he says Michael was a master of media manipulation.<br />
<br /><br />Jermaine said in his book that Michael fooled the media a lot, but not on this particular day. He had such short time to get to court that there wasn't time to go back home from the hospital to change his clothes. But I have to (again) read between the lines I guess.
<br />^^^ and isn't that just the problem, or maybe the purpose, with 'crying wolf'? Your 'audience' ends up questioning or disbelieving every thing you say or do! MJ said he was misunderstood, but he didn't exactly make it easy did he?!<br />
<br /><br />If you look deep in your heart, would that be something that makes a human being happy? To fool everybody for years, to go for the eyes of the world through such humiliating experiences? If so, then I can understand that he found himself the loneliest man on the planet. But, in my eyes, then that was just by his own doing. And that's NOT Michael (to me). You see, for me there is a huge difference in being a great prankster or being a huge liar and manipulator. Heck, if I hadn't been on this forum for four years and learned so many things about him, I might believe Wade Robson right now! Is that what Michael would have wanted? If we are going to believe that everything he said could be a lie, then his denial about the accussations could be a lie too.<br />
<br />No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}<br />There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax. For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.<br /><br />Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?<br /><br />Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way. <br />that's what I learned from this hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Right very well exposed, thanks.<br /><br />This is for Do: Michael has been the target since he was 5 years old everybody wanted to know every single Michael's step, he is a very reflexive man and I believe that during his long road or plane trips to his concerts he had enough time to build a plot against media so the world would never know his real life, it's like living a real life in privacy (indoor) and a staged life outdoor to protect his family and himself, do you believe Michael only had 2 women in his life: LMP & Debbie?? those were the ones Michael wanted us to know, furthermore as I once said on one of my posts I don't believe that Michael was/is an unhappy man rather the contrary I would say.
Now i don't believe he faked drug addiction or child molesting trial or anything that happened to him
<br /><br />Nobody is saying Michael faked child molesting trial that would be awful, we all believe somebody wanted to bury him alive with those accusations but regarding drug addition I believe he started to have pain killers prescribed by evil doctor to make him get hooked to it and he was able to stop it in time and denounce it through his Morphine song lyrics ( Demerol, Demerol of God he is taking Demerol).
<br />No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}<br />There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax. For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.<br /><br />Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?<br /><br />Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way. <br />that's what I learned from this hoax.<br />
<br /><br />My post was an answer to Curls post, in which I was trying to explain that if you lie half of the times, people (in general) have a harder time to believe you when you are telling the truth. That's what my mother taught me and that's what I'm teaching my children. I also said, in my opinion, that is NOT the case with Michael. In this thread were many posts from members who felt the last part of his life was leading up to the hoax, starting with the pepsi-accident. If they feel so, it's their good right, I just don't agree with that. Michael was a prankster and even a manipulator at some points, but not a straight out liar. And I also feel that the pepsi-accident was what it was: an accident. As is the trial, and pyama-day. Not hoaxy, but real. Pepsi-accident might have formed a 'start', but was real, otherwise he would't have [size=18pt]sued pepsi[/size] and obtained a large amount which he used for the Michael Jackson Burn Center.<br /><br />Quote Curls: your 'audience' is questioning or disbelieving everything you say or do<br /><br />I (and we) don't believe he is guilty, or lied about that, because of what I (we) have learned. What about the other 90 % of the 'audience' that believed the tabloids or couldn't care less now he is 'dead'?<br />
<br /><br />someone would need to confirm this but i think i read the other day that he didn't sue pepsi but asked them to build the ( i think it was a children's) burn wing in his name at the burn center or something like that. which kinda makes me go hummm :suspect:40 billion dollars ????? how much would it take to build a childrens hospital ?? :icon_e_wink: :michael-jackson:<br />
<br />We don't know a 'thing' about Michael's life and what goes on in his mind. I'm not saying there aren't moments in his life where he was vulnerable. But I can't see him as an emotional wreck doing drugs the way doctors tell him. In Michael's case we can never be sure that events in his life took place in a definite manner.<br /><br />The Pepsi accident has been discussed before in this forum and I was NOT READY to accept that Michael could have faked it. But who am i to judge? How do I even know or how can i be so sure just because there is a certain impression of Michael in my mind and that he will act in that particular way only. That would mean he shouldn't be faking his death because the Michael I previously knew was 'painfully sensitive and honest' to ever do such a thing. If Michael can fake his death, he can do anything else.<br />Anything can happen, and nothing is impossible.<br /><br /><br />@Suspicious I think the i read the same on this very forum.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic :icon_eek: who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove and highlighting it to be sure everybody was able to see it?<br /><br />
<br />No one in this hoax, in my opinion, is believing blindly anything except that Michael is alive, and even that's based on facts. This forum was to give room for discussion, doesn't mean we believe it. Some news article might show up which might prove our theories wrong or right. We can never be sure about anything in this hoax and that's the exact purpose (of notmaking information available for everyone to see until everything is over. I firmly believe this.}<br />There are certain events in Michael's life that undeniably fit into this hoax. For example, the video Liberian Girl. or the 1998 signature he did in 1988. or even the pepsi accident. we don't know anything at this moment whether he did them on the future hoax project or made those past events a basis for the hoax.<br /><br />Coming to MJ's child molestation Cases. the FBI released 333 pages saying MJ is innocent. How can you think that MJ's denial about the accusations could be a lie?<br /><br />Everything in this hoax for us believers is a guessing game and there's actually no point in thinking a certain way. <br />that's what I learned from this hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Right very well exposed, thanks.<br /><br />This is for Do: Michael has been the target since he was 5 years old everybody wanted to know every single Michael's step, he is a very reflexive man and I believe that during his long road or plane trips to his concerts he had enough time to build a plot against media so the world would never know his real life, it's like living a real life in privacy (indoor) and a staged life outdoor to protect his family and himself, do you believe Michael only had 2 women in his life: LMP & Debbie?? those were the ones Michael wanted us to know, furthermore as I once said on one of my posts I don't believe that Michael was/is an unhappy man rather the contrary I would say. <br />
<br /><br />Sweet, I'm missing your point I guess. I'm not talking about a private life versus a public life (yes, he dated more women, like Tatum, Brooke, Madonna and even Diana I guess!), I'm talking about the reasons for the hoax and what people feel is 'all part of the plan'. Because lately, it seems like everything is ' part of the plan'. Even when Wade Robson claimed he was sexual molested by Michael, people were saying that Michael could be behind the claims, to righten the wrongs. I'm sorry, but I can't get my head wrapped around that concept. <br /><br />And maybe he was really happy at some periods in his life. But these are also quotes from him:<br /><br />Michael: "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." <br /><br />Schmuley asks Michael “You’re not angry at God, you’re not angry at the world?”<br /><br />Michael responds – “I’m not angry. I’m very taken by it. I’m hurt. I cry an awful lot."<br /><br />"But if you don't have that memory of being loved, you are condemned to search the world for something to fill you up. But no matter how much money you make or how famous you become, you will still feel empty. What you are really searching for is unconditional love, unqualified acceptance. And that was the one thing that was denied to you at birth." [Michael Jackson, 2001]<br /><br />“I’m going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame, and oh I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I WANTED TO BE LOVED. THATS ALL!! That’s the real truth. I wanted people to love me, TRULY LOVE ME, because I never really FELT LOVED. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be LOVED because I think is is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it!" Michael Jackson in a 2001 interview.<br /><br />To me, reading this is very painful and from what he was telling many times about loneliness, I guess, overall, he wasn't a happy person. And it's one thing to fool and manipulate the media, it's another thing to fool and manipulate your fanbase.
For some reason this conversation reminded of this post from Front, where he speaks of the ongoing battle between good and evil. Being aware of this could be a reason to create illusions, to confuse not only the public but the 'enemies' (evil) as well. But even through any illusions, Michael has always been clear about his message of love for the world and everyone in it. And being aware of good vs. evil would require an ongoing "plan" of sorts, if Michael feels or knows he's been chosen to fight it. I might be taking this quote out of context but what we believe about Michael and what we actually know are two different things, to paraphrase what Front said. But the truth might not be apparent for anyone not listening closely enough.<br /><br />
The end always gives way to a beginning.<br /><br />Scientists tell us that dark matter exists, but they cannot SEE it. They have admitted that they can't find 90 percent of the Universe! We cannot see or touch it; its existence is IMPLIED ---through findings/"evidence". <br /><br />Throughout the History of time, there has been an ongoing battle between GOOD and EVIL. Prophets have walked among us pre-June 25 and continue to walk among us --- physically in the flesh OR implied through Faith. They walk the face of the Earth with a message --- Love for all human-kind….. and deLIVErance; the common denominator of Prophetic messages. <br /><br />The world listened when Michael fought his battles with UNdying determination ---and JUSTICE prevailed. And they listened to his message. BUt they did NOT listen close enough! SOME people only "heard" (half truths)…… while others truly "listened" (Truth!) ---- they got the whole enchilada. <br /><br />That battle is still being fought……just on a different layer of the "enchilada".<br /><br />Believing and knowing are two different things. Don't take my word as conclusive evidence. The proof will be provided in future HIStory……….
Quote Sweet:<br />I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?<br /><br />Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.
<br />If you really believe in this, that nothing happened to him, that all was his plan.... then i guess he really is a master about communication.<br /><br />But honestly, i don't think so. And i'm not being mean about Michael's ability to do things. Just i don't think everything in life is a plan or part of a greater plan. No way.<br /><br />This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.<br />
<br /><br />I agree with you. This is just too much. Making a fool and a clown of yourself just for a hoax?! To cheat on his fans for years? I tend to go back in time and might assign his confusing behaviour over the years to monarch programming. I even think he himself could have been a victim of sexual abuse, and thereby developed DID (Dissociative identity disorder). As he said in the Schmuley tapes: "I’ve seen the worst. The nightmare of – the human condition, the human soul, of what I would never think common man would be capable of behaving in such a way." I know Michael denied it (the abuse) but there are several accounts that describe otherwise. [size=18pt]He also said he had just two nosejobs (as far as he could remember....that's telling, right?).[/size]<br />I know Michael is capable to do the unthinkable. But to say his life was just for the hoax....That doesn't feel right to me.<br />
<br /><br />[size=14pt] ::gee i don't know if mark lester can forget he donated sperm to the king of pop , then the king of pop ought to be able to forget a nose job or two :thjajaja121:[/size]<br />
Ok Do as somebody said: IF MICHAEL IS CAPABLE OF FAKING HIS DAEATH IS CAPABLE OF FAKING OR FOOLING ANYTHING/ANYBODY (I am talking about Pepsi burn in this case) : FANBASE, MEDIA, ETC... that's what I have learned from his hoax I am sorry if I am wrong but Michael has made me think this way, and the most important thing: I don't believe anything I watch on TV or read on a magazine or newspaper, in this case I am talking about Boston bombing, sorry off topic.<br /><br />
<br />Quote Sweet:<br />I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?<br /><br />Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.<br />
Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew. <br /><br />No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.
<br />Quote Sweet:<br />I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?<br /><br />Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.<br />
<br /><br />Hmmmmm!!<br />
<br />i think there was a story that he picked the glove up and put it on but it seemed like ( and this is strictly from memory) that the glove never was off. just sayin' , anyone looked?<br />here it is . he comes straight up with that gloved hand about to touch it even. by the way check out the location of that spot , look familiar? :icon_lol:<br />
<br />Quote Sweet:<br />I happened the same as you say but......after seeing the below pic who being in pain and shocked by an accident feels like wearing a sequin glove?<br /><br />Because the showman in him prevailed. He thought it would be a great shot of him , being on the strecher with the glove on, knowing there was a lot of press. You know his slogan was 'the show must go on'.<br />
<br /><br />Hmmmmm!!<br />
<br />i think there was a story that he picked the glove up and put it on but it seemed like ( and this is strictly from memory) that the glove never was off. just sayin' , anyone looked?<br />
<br /><br />I watched the vid. When Michael emerged from the pile of people that was trying to help him, the glove was still on, as it was when he was being led away.<br />
<br />Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew. <br /><br />No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Could very well be. It just doesn't feel 'right', you know? Actually, everything that is going on (not on the forum, but in the news) gives me the chills. Sometimes I even feel that there isn't even a hoax! I wasn't very active over here the last months, and that time away created some kind of 'other reality' I guess. Maybe I missed some valuabel info. Time to read up again.
<br />Ok Do, I must honestly say this, I really think you're in a transition period, which me, Sweetsunset and several others went through. Take your own time. Michael may not really be the man we always knew. <br /><br />No one is saying they know everything here. Things in his life can be either ways, but if you think logically, they tend more towards hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Could very well be. It just doesn't feel 'right', you know? Actually, everything that is going on (not on the forum, but in the news) gives me the chills. Sometimes I even feel that there isn't even a hoax! I wasn't very active over here the last months, and that time away created some kind of 'other reality' I guess. Maybe I missed some valuabel info. Time to read up again.<br />
<br /><br />Don't worry do, everything will be alright. I exactly know how you feel, I had even turned into a non believer again. that was long ago. It feels like Death Hoax is way too unrealistic. Almost sounds like a dream and that's why we find ourselves comfortable in the reality that was previously presented. But this too shall pass. Just enjoy the ride. After All, Michael's the driver. We'll never know which lane he drives into...but i'm pretty sure he'll get us home! <br />And also, it's not about us...it's about him. All of this takes lot of time, but the result would be worth waiting.
Andrea, that Front post is so profound in implying the hoax has co-existed with the public presentation of the his life. His (Michael’s) confidence so solid, almost as if it is impossible for the plan to derail, like it’s written in the stars.<br /><br />Here is an excerpt from Back’s theory of a vision:<br />
Though the hands of tIME still move incrementally, tick-tock, tick-tock, it is quickly running thin on the 2 decade long, elaborate planning that culminated in this execution. I can now understand that "vision" of 6/25/06 relapse", with CLARITY. This is no conspiracy theory! However, believe as you may. But believing and knowing--- are two different things. <br /><br /><br />Arms, wrist and feet. Bludgeoned through the veins. <br />Arms, wrist and feet, Poisoned through the veins. <br />Two different Kings, with different Reigns.<br />And The End result shall be the same.<br /><br />JUSTICE........For it is already written!
<br />I’ve wondered to what extent MJ took drugs—earlier before rehab, or does this also include under Dr. Murray’s hands, but that it didn’t actually kill him. I know the Irish doctor Treacy said MJ had gone under general anthesia a couple of times in Ireland for some cosmetic surgery.<br /><br />Then during MJ’s interview with Oprah, he said the oxygen chamber and elephant man bones were stupid lies, but later we hear that Frank Dileo was told by him to put them in the news to start controversy.<br />
"MJ sued Pepsi", did he really? The official story is he settled out of court aka privately, so what really happened? We have no idea. We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.<br /><br />
on 1368384823:
<br /><br />This post was just to bring you all back on Earth, a little.<br />
<br /><br />Or perhaps you need to do more research before settling on a conclusion. <br /><br />"Trust in me, just in me, put all your trust in me", is probably as truthful as it gets so that's where I'm at. I have faith in MJ, and I trust he has a plan, so I don't sweat the details. Everything is under control.<br /><br />Plus, we saw current events coming. It has been foretold. That's hard to ignore.
We only know what we are told. We only know what MJ chooses to let us in on. And it may or may not be the truth.
<br />Ah...just like TS. :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />This song came to mind in the sense that MJ has pulled us in, we love it and hate it, and we (I) wouldn't want it any other way. I probably wouldn't have gone down this vast rabbithole had there not been a hoax (beLIEve) involved. <br />'Human Nature', all the way and MJ knows it well -- http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael Jackson Lyrics/Human Nature Lyrics.html<br />And we have to keep in mind, "Artists tell lies to reveal truth." Much of the history we've been told is a lie.<br /><br />
1- When the explosion takes place the screen becomes blank??.<br /><br />2- After getting down the stairs he start spinning but in an unusual way like spinning just to extinguish the fire on his head as he knew there were flames on his hair (he is probably wearing a wig to avoid risks) and all was staged.<br /><br />3- If this really was a deal between Pepsi and Michael I believe this accident benefited both of them Pepsi got a good marketing momentum and Michael got the money to build the wing for burned people and the one who paid was the insurance company. <br /><br />4- Sorry Michael if this was not staged but you have taught me not to believe everything I see. <br /><br /><br />
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