<br />http://michaeljacksonnotdead.wordpress.com/tag/reconstructive-surgery/<br /><br /><br />Klein has come out a number of times and made these claims. This is nothing new. Just Klein talking about it again and it's been picked up again by hoaxers.<br /><br />The alleged reconstructive surgery was in 09 getting him ready for TII - see link<br />
<br /><br /><br />thanks for info aussie.<br /><br />
<br />Of course he's human but there's no pattern of behavior or past performance to suggest that might be true, it's just wild, slanderous speculation based on nothing and I'm surprised to see it referred to as a potential truth. That is all.<br />
<br /><br />There's always a first time, however, far be it from me to slander anyone - heaven forbid!!!
[size=12pt]I just realized I never posted this! Thanks for asking about it Starchild! This is for you. <br /><br />Well, the only guy of these eight photos posted earlier here, which actually appears to have come from Joe and Kathryn Jackson, is the one with the spider. No matter what we THINK we have seen or what we think we know (because he DOES like to keep changing things), is that he has been testing "substituting" for years, and longer than the implementation of his death HOAX!!<br /><br />♪"WHO the HECK is it??"♪ Is more apropos. :Pulling_hair: Imo, there have been at least 7 characters playing this part over the years. None of them are dead for real, but one (not even pictured here, you know) could be a twin or even a triplet. Once a couple has twins, it is likely they will have more twins or multiple births. Janet could have a twin brother. Michael could have a twin bro. The twin everyone already (thinks they) know died, may have not died. There could be many more hoaxed things than MJ's passing!! I think we have been thinking too small. This Hoax could have hundreds of horizontal and historical tentacles we haven't thought of yet, because we have only been thinking in stacked layers of misdirection.<br /><br />MJ and Janet, in pictures used to look so much more alike (besides the obvious M/F differences). EXCEPT when they were together doing something. What do you think THAT could mean???? <br /> <br />Since the beginning of time twins have been each others' partners in crime and have taken to fooling others. Twins who aren't even famous or into show business or illusion do this. How much more tempting would it be for a couple of twisted genius twins, from a show biz family, bored with the commonplace AND into magic, illusion AND practical tomfoolery, to have had the foresight and craftiness to make all evidence/ records of twins just GO AWAY for their creative plans. <br /><br />Maybe the young twins were a bit temperamental or cranky from travelling and it was decided to interchange them because they were so young, and unpredictable. <br /><br />Maybe all that crap about Joe beating (was it?)Marlon to "do it like Michael" was just a misdirection to keep everyone from looking too closely at the one known as MJ, and realizing there were 2 of him. :icon_e_surprised:<br /><br />Maybe one's name was “Mike” :michael_jackson-1135: and one's name was “Joe” :michael_jackson-1135: , and in character they both answered to "MJ"! No one is dead; no one has been hidden away for years. They have BOTH been in plain sight, in the Bad video, in millions of photos, AS Michael Jackson. :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile<br /><br />Maybe ...the BAD era was the first and last time they appeared together in a piece of work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :affraid: Maybe that was our last chance to discover there were two and we didn't , so........... :icon_albino: :icon_twisted: ON WITH OPERATION DEATH HOAX!!<br /><br />But, if there ARE 2 persons playing MJ, why did they cancel concerts for illness and such---if there WAS another to take the one’s place? Perhaps one or both LEFT the actual performing business, and the one getting sick all the time was a real double, a hireling. OR, more likely, perhaps THESE were practice runs, to test and iron out any kinks in their planned Hoax---for when they actually cancelled the AEG concerts later. (It would be wise to know if such a cancellation would cause a tar and feathering or no :icon_lol:)<br /><br />Did you know that the band "Steam" was just some guys who recorded a hit (♪Na na na na ...Kiss Him Goodbye♪) and weren't even a band when they were booked for appearances to promote their record? <br /><br />http://www.last.fm/music/Steam/+wiki <br /><br />The record company hastily threw together a band of guys for a road act, because the original singers didn't want to tour. THAT group disbanded before their first appearance, and another bunch of guys were thrown together to do the tour. No one was the wiser! So...it HAS been done, substitutes touring FOR the Real Deal. And even though MJ was 10 or 11 when this was going on, he was right in the middle (AND on top of things very early!!!) of The Business, and could have heard or known about it, just "filing it away" for his own big Hoax, later...!<br /><br />Anyway, it could be that the last time it was the “real deal” on tour was with his brothers!!!!!! Or perhaps only the first leg of the BAD tour. <br /><br />Maybe everyone else was a stand-in except for when it HAD to be him for up close or "talkies". :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_wink: :thjajaja121:<br /> <br />Maybe this is why Frank Dileo never left “his” side during those bizarre interviews ---too dangerous to let a “double” freely speak to the press unmicromanaged!!!!!!!!!!!! :affraid:<br /><br />Maybe the dark video in Japan was on purpose, and the story that MJ was "very disappointed in it, not being able to control this" just a ruse. <br /><br />Maybe that was just an [size=18pt]excuse[/size] for why he never published a concert video until the white album in 2004---because he thought it would... reveal something ...like....that it was not him!!! :affraid: :affraid: :affraid: :over-react-smiley: <br /><br />Dileo said once that the year was the hardest thing they'd ever done, exhausting both of them, and MJ said NEVER AGAIN! Uh, YeAH! Impersonating yourself via proxy and making sure he always “does it like Michael” WOULD exhaust a guy AND his handler….<br /><br />Does this mean that the HBO special in 92, or the rest of his tours was "not really HIM"??? Well...no...The Brand is all "Him", he's reinvented himself into a perfected stage act which has mesmerized the entire world. It is his ART. It is his music. It is some of the most inventive dance and persona in history. It came out of him. It’s his blood sweat and tears, you bet! But [size=8pt]maybe not[/size] EXACTLY, the Michael Jackson who toured with the J5...<br /><br />Maybe that's what he meant all along, as he sang ,"you're just another part of me". Maybe it wasn't us---but, his brother! :icon_e_surprised:<br /><br />Just toying with ideas. It COULD be true… :smiley-vault-misc-150: [/size]<br /> :animal0017:
Interesting thoughts, Itsher, but I don't believe them for a second! ! ! <br />You cannot erase a person's record for so long and making him play the double of his brother, it's simply not possible. What about the neighbors??? Didn't they know the Jacksons before they became famous??? How come they never said a word about the second MJ??? Now let's come to another question: Who is the father of Paris, Prince and Blanket??? Is it MJ or his twin brother??? Or may be both of them?? Could this be possible?? No way and I will never believe for a second that MJ has a twin brother. Photos are not a proof of anything. They can be edited. MJ could manipulate the whole world with edited photos to make everyone think that there are 2 MJ's. It's true that his photos don't look the same. It's the man we never knew, it's the man we don't really know how he looks like! It's another hiding in plain sight, through edited photos. I think the real MJ is the one who performs live on stage. That's how he really looks like. Now can anyone tell me how MJ really looks like? Do we really know?? The question is: no, we don't and I guess he wants to keep it that why, but I cannot figure out why!
<br />Interesting thoughts, Itsher, but I don't believe them for a second! ! ! <br />You cannot erase a person's record for so long and making him play the double of his brother, it's simply not possible. What about the neighbors??? Didn't they know the Jacksons before they became famous??? How come they never said a word about the second MJ??? Now let's come to another question: Who is the father of Paris, Prince and Blanket??? Is it MJ or his twin brother??? Or may be both of them?? Could this be possible?? No way and I will never believe for a second that MJ has a twin brother. Photos are not a proof of anything. They can be edited. MJ could manipulate the whole world with edited photos to make everyone think that there are 2 MJ's. It's true that his photos don't look the same. It's the man we never knew, it's the man we don't really know how he looks like! It's another hiding in plain sight, through edited photos. I think the real MJ is the one who performs live on stage. That's how he really looks like. Now can anyone tell me how MJ really looks like? Do we really know?? The question is: no, we don't and I guess he wants to keep it that why, but I cannot figure out why!<br />
<br /><br />We know so little after all, don't we? We do know he was the Master of Disguises who has fooled people repeatedly. I am not sure of anything, so I can't be sure there isn't a twin, but my gut tells me no.
<br />[size=12pt]Interesting thoughts, Itsher, but I don't believe them for a second! ! ! [/size] <br />You cannot erase a person's record for so long and making him play the double of his brother, it's simply not possible. What about the neighbors??? Didn't they know the Jacksons before they became famous??? How come they never said a word about the second MJ??? Now let's come to another question: Who is the father of Paris, Prince and Blanket??? Is it MJ or his twin brother??? Or may be both of them?? Could this be possible?? No way and I will never believe for a second that MJ has a twin brother. Photos are not a proof of anything. They can be edited. MJ could manipulate the whole world with edited photos to make everyone think that there are 2 MJ's. It's true that his photos don't look the same. It's the man we never knew, it's the man we don't really know how he looks like! It's another hiding in plain sight, through edited photos. I think the real MJ is the one who performs live on stage. That's how he really looks like. Now can anyone tell me how MJ really looks like? Do we really know?? The question is: no, we don't and I guess he wants to keep it that why, but I cannot figure out why!<br />
<br /><br />Hi, Diggyon. <br /><br />What you state is exactly Its her's point, I think. Just stating things in an over-the-top fashion as a way of highlighting questions like the ones you posed. (Of course, correct me if I’m wrong, Its her.)
<br />Interesting thoughts, Itsher, but I don't believe them for a second! ! ! <br />You cannot erase a person's record for so long and making him play the double of his brother, it's simply not possible. What about the neighbors??? Didn't they know the Jacksons before they became famous??? How come they never said a word about the second MJ??? Now let's come to [size=18pt]another question: Who is the father of Paris, Prince and Blanket??? Is it MJ or his twin brother??? Or may be both of them?? [/size]Could this be possible?? No way and I will never believe for a second that MJ has a twin brother. Photos are not a proof of anything. They can be edited. MJ could manipulate the whole world with edited photos to make everyone think that there are 2 MJ's. It's true that his photos don't look the same. It's the man we never knew, it's the man we don't really know how he looks like! It's another hiding in plain sight, through edited photos. I think the real MJ is the one who performs live on stage. That's how he really looks like. Now can anyone tell me how MJ really looks like? Do we really know?? The question is: no, we don't and I guess he wants to keep it that why, but I cannot figure out why!<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Hi Diggyon, You're right, the photos are one of many of MJ's fiendish tools to confuse everyone :suspect: and keep everyone guessing. I swear there are photos of imposters IN the MJJ official collection of MJ photos, and this confused me for a long time. I wondered why people who KNOW him would collect photos of fake MJs. Now, there ARE people who photograph differently every time we see them, and it is fascinating to behold, especially in the case of someone known to you personally, and you KNOW there is only one of them. But we simply can't know for certain about MJ until he comes out telling all! <br /><br />I am just listing all kinds of things which must be explained by the Joker, so that we don't all go to our graves completely nuts. He doesn't get official credit for tricks that were never substantiated, you know. All of this could just be misunderstandings and rumors---NOT the misdirection and stealth of a clever illusionist. He MUST reappear and 'splain' ---document his skill---or go down in History as an inflated figment of the imaginations of desperate fans in denial. <br /><br />SOME fans will have a serious problem with there being more than one MJ character :michael_jackson-1135: :animal0017: :michael_jackson-1135: , the fans who planned on marrying him. But it shouldn't cause the rest of us any problems, RIGHT? I am fascinated by the prospect of twins! If all his fans go rabid, fine! More for me, I'll take TWO. <br /><br /><br />But you brought up his KIDS in all this, which struck me kind of funny. Whether he has kids or not has nothing to do with him being a twin. NOT jumping on you, I just don't follow why you immediately thought of the children. After all, if MJ is a twin, we will still love him, right? Will we love his twin, the guy we've seen at least HALF of the time we believed we were seeing him? Will we feel any less interest in and affection for PPB, depending upon which twin is which of their father(s)? Whether they are siblings or cousins? :icon_e_surprised: Why did the kids come to mind, while on the subject of MJ hiding a brother? <br /><br />You think they are Hoax kids, don't you! In the back of your mind you wonder what ELSE he's faked. :errrr: Well, we know the kids are real; we've seen them grow up, very publicly, just like MJ. The names could have been changed to protect the innocent, no matter WHOSE kids they are. Does it matter, really? If the kids belong to Joker #1, Joker #2 (or Joker #3 :michael_jackson-1135: , the character BOTH have been playing the part of for 30 years) ? Is this something some of us just can't deal with---that MJ grew up in the spotlight, very publicly and we NEVER knew he was a twin? Does that make us dimwitted or idiots because we didn't see something we weren't looking for?? No! <br />(There are a LOT shadier things than a showbiz family secret going on that none of us have seen, so don't feel bad about this, if it's true.)<br /><br />Would it really bother us that much, to discover that Prince, Paris and Blanket are actors, playing the parts of the fictional children of a fictional character named Michael Jackson, King of Pop? And that both twins took turns acting his part? This Hoax is deep. It's not fair :smiley_abuv: to get all FOR REAL uncomfortable with twists and turns MJ wrote into his fictional THRILLER, for deep suspense. We don't have to believe any of it. But, as far as we know, it is ALL fiction (remember Latoya stating as much??! :icon_eek: ), and the story isn't over yet, so let's just all calm down, wait and see, ok? <br /><br />@ Starchild, yes, I am highlighting questions that have stumped me in an over the top way, because everything ABOUT Michael Jackson is over the top, especially since this Hoax went "Lights Out"!!!! I remember two drivers licenses, where one MJ looked more like Mic Jagger than Mike Jackson. :icon_e_surprised: Two completely different men in the I.D.s! <br /><br />As friendly and flirty and charming as the Michael Jackson we "know" appears, there is a very deep introspective side to him, which I sometimes get the feeling is more of a loner than anything else, as most creative geniuses are. It seems really bizarre to me that anyone who isn't all on his own would have the time or energy to accomplish all he has. His marriages seemed hoaxed---pictures with his wives were forced looking---even those faked studio pictures. Something feels "off" to me about all this, and I believe the children will turn out to be godchildren, maybe, but not the real issue of confirmed bachelor and PuppetMaster of this Hoax. They may all be actors or children of low profile, non-celebrities he knows. Check out who was always around him with the kids. You know... Baby Moses (of Bible fame) was nursed by his own real mother, hovering around the palace, playing nanny-nurse to him, as he was officially SAID to be the child of Pharoah's daughter... MJ knows his Bible stories. Clever Boy. It would be the easiest thing in the world, to hire their real mother or dad to be :icon_albino: nurse-maid to their own real kids. But, I don't see how twins figure into this unless the "twin" story is TRUE, and in the Autumn of their lives, they want to take a bow for this expert Illusion. Would it be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad if true? Can't we be a BIT more understanding of someone so misunderstood all his life? Someone we REALLY really appreciated and whose work we LOVED? This may be the crown jewel in his Hoax. A real twin brother. :icon_e_biggrin: TWO of a kind ?! :icon_bounce: Or even if one is a very extroverted, manic Jim Carey type and one is a real strong, silent, Gary Cooper type. Would it cause us to come unglued???? Really?<br /><br />What if the "twins" are the elaborate illusion----just to soften the blow that there really are two MJ's only one is a character in a hoax that the other one created and produced for his fans? Would that be ok with us? If the man we thought we knew was a figment of the imagination of the other one??? <br /><br />Finally (for now) consider this: maybe all that FBI CIA KGB stuff in his songs is NOT fiction, and a ruse like TWINS has helped him elude and discombobulate them all these years.... :icon_e_ugeek: Many more things are possible than we used to beLIEve...[/size] :affraid:<br />
<br /><br />What if the "twins" are the elaborate illusion----just to soften the blow that there really are two MJ's only one is a character in a hoax that the other one created and produced for his fans? Would that be ok with us? If the man we thought we knew :icon_e_confused: was a figment of the imagination of the other one???<br /><br />Finally (for now) consider this: maybe all that FBI CIA KGB stuff in his songs is NOT fiction, and a ruse like TWINS has helped him elude and discombobulate them all these years.... Many more things are possible than we used to beLIEve...<br />
<br /><br />Shocking as it is, I think you may be on to something and I'm very glad you mentioned the possibility that all of this - including the kids - is part of an act. It's just a feeling on my part, perhaps, but sometimes I feel a disconnect between the public Michael and the Michael that we have come to know. <br />
Oh what a so complicated minds you all have OMG Michael must be laughing out loud I think it's more simple than that: there is only one Michael, MJ the man who is pulling this hoax off and the man you never knew, that's all. :Pulling_hair:<br /><br />Michael's kids part of an act, this is crazy !! :over-react-smiley:
<br /><br />What if the "twins" are the elaborate illusion----just to soften the blow that there really are two MJ's only one is a character in a hoax that the other one created and produced for his fans? Would that be ok with us? If the man we thought we knew :icon_e_confused: was a figment of the imagination of the other one???<br /><br />Finally (for now) consider this: maybe all that FBI CIA KGB stuff in his songs is NOT fiction, and a ruse like TWINS has helped him elude and discombobulate them all these years.... Many more things are possible than we used to beLIEve...<br />
<br /><br />Shocking as it is, I think you may be on to something and I'm very glad you mentioned the possibility that all of this - including the kids - is part of an act. It's just a feeling on my part, perhaps, but sometimes I feel a disconnect between the public Michael and the Michael that we have come to know. <br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Hi Gwynned, <br /><br />I would be quick to say that if anything, not just part of 'an act' but Hand Picked participants in The Greatest Show On Earth, who got to sit under/in close proximity of the tutelage of a master for part of their young lives. :bowdown: Idk, but it seems if anyone mentions the kids being "in on it" (instead of wrecked and still bawling their eyes out) it somehow makes them less good as people, and if someone dares say that they might be paid actors and not even MJ's children, people get all bent as if it diminishes the children's worth somehow (not actually being blood "Royal"! What. I don't get it. None of us are, including Michael J. :icon_rolleyes:). Neither would ever be true! Whether his kids or not they ARE in on HIS Hoax, and NO harm or foul has been done. All is well. As planned! :icon_mrgreen: <br /><br />Whether twins or doubles or actors or bonafide Jacksons, WHY does there have to be so much personalized emotion and criticism? The PLAY is the thing. :icon_e_smile: It is some kind of a Hoax. A work of Fiction, a Masquerade, a Hoodwinking, a Production. A BIG one. <br /><br />I'm not trying to shock anyone by posting about my observations. HE is the one who said years ago that he wanted to really move people. Well, he sure did. :affraid: His death was earth-moving enough and I didn't even know him. But it doesn't pay to get TOO upset about his kids or a twin brother, or even that he set his own hair on fake fire as part of His-Story. <br /><br />Maybe the reason he is revealing odd bits, piece by piece is because we, ourselves seem so personally invested in this Hoax being something non-scary that we can live with, that he doesn't wish to overwhelm us. :bearhug: <br />But the Reveal may necessitate telling ALL that was Hoaxed over the years, from the Pepsi thing to his little Darlings, to even some actual, real, weighty points of contention in our world. Idk. (The longer I am here, the less I know. Now, THAT's a bitter pill! :icon_pale: ). If he WANTs to tell it, we want to KNOW right? I do. I really do. <br /><br />If he simply kept us spellbound with tall tale, after rip-roaring tall tale all our lives, and we were content to eat THAT up----HOW can we OBJECT, NOW, as he calms our fears, explaining HOW it was all a lifelong, over the top, Thriller? A STORY. :th_bravo: [/size]
<br /><br />What if the "twins" are the elaborate illusion----just to soften the blow that there really are two MJ's only one is a character in a hoax that the other one created and produced for his fans? Would that be ok with us? If the man we thought we knew :icon_e_confused: was a figment of the imagination of the other one???<br /><br />Finally (for now) consider this: maybe all that FBI CIA KGB stuff in his songs is NOT fiction, and a ruse like TWINS has helped him elude and discombobulate them all these years.... Many more things are possible than we used to beLIEve...<br />
<br /><br />Shocking as it is, I think you may be on to something and I'm very glad you mentioned the possibility that all of this - including the kids - is part of an act. It's just a feeling on my part, perhaps, but sometimes I feel a disconnect between the public Michael and the Michael that we have come to know. <br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Hi Gwynned, <br /><br />I would be quick to say that if anything, not just part of 'an act' but Hand Picked participants in The Greatest Show On Earth, who got to sit under/in close proximity of the tutelage of a master for part of their young lives. :bowdown: Idk, but it seems if anyone mentions the kids being "in on it" (instead of wrecked and still bawling their eyes out) it somehow makes them less good as people, and if someone dares say that they might be paid actors and not even MJ's children, people get all bent as if it diminishes the children's worth somehow (not actually being blood "Royal"! What. I don't get it. None of us are, including Michael J. :icon_rolleyes:). Neither would ever be true! Whether his kids or not they ARE in on HIS Hoax, and NO harm or foul has been done. All is well. As planned! :icon_mrgreen: <br /><br />Whether twins or doubles or actors or bonafide Jacksons, WHY does there have to be so much personalized emotion and criticism? The PLAY is the thing. :icon_e_smile: It is some kind of a Hoax. A work of Fiction, a Masquerade, a Hoodwinking, a Production. A BIG one. <br /><br />I'm not trying to shock anyone by posting about my observations. HE is the one who said years ago that he wanted to really move people. Well, he sure did. :affraid: His death was earth-moving enough and I didn't even know him. But it doesn't pay to get TOO upset about his kids or a twin brother, or even that he set his own hair on fake fire as part of His-Story. <br /><br />Maybe the reason he is revealing odd bits, piece by piece is because we, ourselves seem so personally invested in this Hoax being something non-scary that we can live with, that he doesn't wish to overwhelm us. :bearhug: <br />But the Reveal may necessitate telling ALL that was Hoaxed over the years, from the Pepsi thing to his little Darlings, to even some actual, real, weighty points of contention in our world. Idk. (The longer I am here, the less I know. Now, THAT's a bitter pill! :icon_pale: ). If he WANTs to tell it, we want to KNOW right? I do. I really do. <br /><br />If he simply kept us spellbound with tall tale, after rip-roaring tall tale all our lives, and we were content to eat THAT up----HOW can we OBJECT, NOW, as he calms our fears, explaining HOW it was all a lifelong, over the top, Thriller? A STORY. :th_bravo: [/size]<br />
<br /><br />Really enjoy your insight! :th_bravo: He did say he wanted to take his direction to the next level. Is it a reality show with audience participation? Like the song goes, His life was a movie, or at least the public part of his life, and we have been fortunate enough to participate in it. And what are the real weighty points of contention you refer to? JFK? 9-11? If Michael, the Master, trained his protoges, who is Michael? When was the last time we actually saw 'him'? Is it only a him? Or could it be a they? In V for Vendetta, V says behind this mask is more than a person. It's an idea. And you can't kill an idea. What is the idea? What is his agenda? Like you said, the longer we're here, the greater the uncertainty. <br /><br />And, like the Master Shake-Spear said "All the world's a stage, and we are but actors.' Some of us are paid, I guess, and others unwittingly offer our services for free! :icon_razz:
Hope it's ok to resurrect this thread - may as well talk about this as anything else I guess!<br /><br />Anyway, prompted by the pic of MJ used on that Sony/Estate announcement thing and Souza saying it was the taller/older MJ, I'd like to put a fun challenge out to those who believe there are two MJs!<br /><br />You can have all the make up, surgery, wigs, clothes etc etc in the world to make you look as identical as possible to someone else - but you can't change your wrinkles and creases! That pic clearly shows (what I've noticed many times with 'MJ') that when he frowns or screws his eyes up, he has horizontal creases at the top of his nose between his eyes. I have the most horrendous vertical frown lines between my eyes when I frown, and there's nothing I can do to frown any differently! So, my challenge to anyone who cares to take it on, is to find pics of 'MJ' with a different type of creasing!<br /><br />That would be pretty convincing evidence of two MJs IMO!
<br />Hope it's ok to resurrect this thread - may as well talk about this as anything else I guess!<br /><br />Anyway, prompted by the pic of MJ used on that Sony/Estate announcement thing and Souza saying it was the taller/older MJ, I'd like to put a fun challenge out to those who believe there are two MJs!<br /><br />You can have all the make up, surgery, wigs, clothes etc etc in the world to make you look as identical as possible to someone else - but you can't change your wrinkles and creases! That pic clearly shows (what I've noticed many times with 'MJ') that when he frowns or screws his eyes up, he has horizontal creases at the top of his nose between his eyes. I have the most horrendous vertical frown lines between my eyes when I frown, and there's nothing I can do to frown any differently! So, my challenge to anyone who cares to take it on, is to find pics of 'MJ' with a different type of creasing!<br /><br />That would be pretty convincing evidence of two MJs IMO!<br />
<br /><br />Hey curls,<br /><br />I did look, but the problem here is that you assume they both wrinkle there. I could not really see that. That frown you mention is indeed typical for one, not so much for the other.<br /><br />The other problem with the two MJ's is that they are both MJ, and both real MJ. Even though I see the difference most of the time, I recognize them both as the real MJ which simply makes it harder because you start to doubt. And I am not talking about the doubles that we have seen the last decade. Both are Michael Jackson, both look a lot alike yet look different. One has a round chin, the other a pronounced and longer chin. One has a higher voice, the other one has to fake that voice to make it sound the same as his brother's. It is why some people say that he has a real low voice in real life, they know the older MJ. One is at least 2-3 inches taller than the other. The tall one has vitiligo, apparently Quincy Jones knew the other one because he plain out said: MJ does not have vitiligo. One wears his glove on the right, the other on the left. Read all the lyrics, they have been trying to tell us for ages! Why would MJ be able to be in 2 places at the same time? How can he sign a will in LA while being in NY with Al Sharpton at the same time? Are all those people in on it or is the explanation much simpler: there are 2 MJ's? Brothers. Why could they not look alike that much? I bet if Janet was a boy she could have been the 3rd MJ. Why hide a kid? They never did! the younger one simply lived somewhere else because Katherine got pregnant again in 1959 and they couldn't afford another kid! Joe's brother Luther had no kids I don't think, but in one of the books I read he was around a lot for rehearsals at 2300 Jackson Street. Maybe, just maybe, the younger MJ grew up with him and his wife. For Joe and Katherine that would have been a great solution. It was the 50's, a story like this is not uncommon for that time. It also explains the Joe/Joseph stuff that has been frustrating many for years. How can Joseph be used in a court of law when it is not his real name? Because it's the other one's real name!<br /><br />Michael Joe Jackson, born 8/29/1958<br />Michael Joseph Jackson, born 1/28/1960<br /><br />Explains everything plus it still makes the death certificate bogus. If you look at the writers of the songs in that archive, some say Michael Joe, some say Michael Joseph. They both wrote songs. <br /><br />I told you before, listen to Who is it. MJ did his own background vocals? Who is it? The one singing Human Nature, Say Say Say, Thriller and Beat it (on the official recording) is not the same as the one singing Black or White, Billie Jean and They don't care about us. Listen to it. Sometimes they both seem to be in one song. They are so alike, but not the same. Moonwalker is about one MJ leaving, This is It is about that MJ returning to the stage after 20+ years. One quit, the other one kept going. Both are equally MJ.<br /><br />I could go on for hours and hours, seriously. Donald Trump told Larry King in 2009: There were 2 MJ's and I knew them both. From the 90's on it was like a different person, much more shy. It is not an exact qoute, but close enough. It is still on YouTube. <br /><br />Anyway, challenge me more, I might convince you in the end, hahahahaha! 2 real MJ's make a lot of frustrating mysteries much much clearer. I will stop now. lol...
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Hope it's ok to resurrect this thread - may as well talk about this as anything else I guess!<br /><br />Anyway, prompted by the pic of MJ used on that Sony/Estate announcement thing and Souza saying it was the taller/older MJ, I'd like to put a fun challenge out to those who believe there are two MJs!<br /><br />You can have all the make up, surgery, wigs, clothes etc etc in the world to make you look as identical as possible to someone else - but you can't change your wrinkles and creases! That pic clearly shows (what I've noticed many times with 'MJ') that when he frowns or screws his eyes up, he has horizontal creases at the top of his nose between his eyes. I have the most horrendous vertical frown lines between my eyes when I frown, and there's nothing I can do to frown any differently! So, my challenge to anyone who cares to take it on, is to find pics of 'MJ' with a different type of creasing!<br /><br />That would be pretty convincing evidence of two MJs IMO!<br />
<br /><br />These are the pictures of MJ frowing I have found so far, in any of them I've been able to find the supposed MJ with different creases than those you Curls are talking about, I mean all MJs (assuming there are more than one) have the horizontal creases when they frowns = THERE IS ONLY "ONE" MJ:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
[size=12pt]Now...I know there's only one MJ because the skeleton in every MJ I have seen so far is EXACTLY the same, he has the right shoulder (if you look at the picture then is his left) slightly lower than the other and I've never seen another MJ without this feature, take a look:[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]Another feature of his face is that he has his lower lip is slightly fallen towards his left side that you can notice when he smiles (if you look at his picture is his right side), take a look of the pictures:[/size] <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]This is the supposed Barry Shaw:[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]And this is the supposed O2 Arena guy:[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Hey curls,<br /><br />I did look, but the problem here is that you assume they both wrinkle there. I could not really see that. That frown you mention is indeed typical for one, not so much for the other. .....<br /><br />
<br /><br />No, no, no, Souza, I'm not assuming that at all! Quite the opposite in fact. I'm saying that if there are two of them, it's highly unlikely that they both have the same creases when they frown or screw up their eyes.<br /><br />You say 'the other one' doesn't show the horizontal line frown so much. So I want pics! Does he just never frown at all so we never get to compare (botox maybe?) or does he have a different frown, in which case there should be pics!<br /><br />While we're at it - which MJ had the mole on his left cheek (which was later removed but the scar is still visible)?<br /><br />@sweetsunset, nice pics - almost as if you had them all ready and waiting for a debate such as this!!
<br /><br />Hey curls,<br /><br />I did look, but the problem here is that you assume they both wrinkle there. I could not really see that. That frown you mention is indeed typical for one, not so much for the other. .....<br /><br />
<br /><br />No, no, no, Souza, I'm not assuming that at all! Quite the opposite in fact. I'm saying that if there are two of them, it's highly unlikely that they both have the same creases when they frown or screw up their eyes.<br /><br />You say 'the other one' doesn't show the horizontal line frown so much. So I want pics! Does he just never frown at all so we never get to compare (botox maybe?) or does he have a different frown, in which case there should be pics!<br /><br />While we're at it - which MJ had the mole on his left cheek (which was later removed but the scar is still visible)?<br /><br />@sweetsunset, nice pics - almost as if you had them all ready and waiting for a debate such as this!!<br />
<br /><br />He doesn't frown as much. I will see if I can find some pics tomorrow if I don't forget. I have looked at tons of pictures and it frustrates me greatly that I can't really find something new to show. All I posted before wasn't convincing enough for many. <br /><br />The one with the removed mole is the one with the bigger chin, the older one. So you DID notice one has no scar? Ha! I love this discussion. I am so certain of it and I see some kinda see it but don't want to admit it yet and there are the people that will never want to believe it. Thanks RK for the video, that is the one I meant.<br /><br /><br /><br />
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I love this discussion too Souza! Even though I'm one who doesn't believe it (yet). Not a question of not wanting to believe it, just haven't seen anything I'd call proof.<br /><br />'No scar' means nothing - we all know how heavily many of MJ's pics are touched-up/airbrushed to give a flawless finish.<br /><br />Have you also noticed how some photos are 'reversed'? That too gives a very different look to a person.
<br />I love this discussion too Souza! Even though I'm one who doesn't believe it (yet). Not a question of not wanting to believe it, just haven't seen anything I'd call proof.<br /><br />'No scar' means nothing - we all know how heavily many of MJ's pics are touched-up/airbrushed to give a flawless finish.<br /><br />Have you also noticed how some photos are [size=36pt]'reversed'? That too gives a very different look to a person.[/size]<br />
<br /><br />Oh Curly boy,beLIEve me that I noticed.....the pictureS are reversed as "hell",lol....and that gives a very different look to a person,yes,yes.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Mirror,mirror on the world,who's the most beautiful GIRL....sorry :icon_mrgreen: [size=18pt]BOY[/size] in the world?? Think like a MAN......act like a WOMAN,he he !!! That This is it [size=18pt]Drill[/size] confused me as "hell",but not anymore he he :icon_pale: :Crash:.<br /><br />
<br /> The "always great to sing with my brother" line from the TII album is something to consider when we are examining this topic also. <br />
<br /><br />Who is it?Is it a friend of mine?Who is it? Is it my brother?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />I love this discussion too Souza! Even though I'm one who doesn't believe it (yet). Not a question of not wanting to believe it, just haven't seen anything I'd call proof.<br /><br />'No scar' means nothing - we all know how heavily many of MJ's pics are touched-up/airbrushed to give a flawless finish.<br /><br />Have you also noticed how some photos are [size=36pt]'reversed'? That too gives a very different look to a person.[/size]<br />
<br /><br />Oh Curly boy,beLIEve me that I noticed.....the pictureS are reversed as "hell",lol....and that gives a very different look to a person,yes,yes.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Mirror,mirror on the world,who's the most beautiful GIRL....sorry :icon_mrgreen: [size=18pt]BOY[/size] in the world?? Think like a MAN......act like a WOMAN,he he !!! That This is it [size=18pt]Drill[/size] confused me as "hell",but not anymore he he :icon_pale: :Crash:.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Did i mis something? what is mend by this?? That Travis Payne and shawn holley are one and the same??<br />Or am i asking a stupid question now?<br />Or
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."