Do, Savile did infact say he didn't like children. <br />"Savile claimed the key to his success on Jim'll Fix It had been that he disliked children, although he later admitted to saying it to deflect scrutiny of his personal life. He did not own a computer, as he did not want people to think he was downloading child pornography.[14] In a 1990 interview for The Independent on Sunday<br />^^^ this is what I was saying about being duplicitous before.<br /><br />As far as I am seeing, Savile was protected from the consequences while he was alive. By whom? Well that is another whole conspiracy theory there. Allegations against him dated back to at least 1950. None ever made it into court. <br />An especially vile character as his interests were for the mentally challenged children within institutions and hospitals and also necrophillia. <br /><br />From his actions, I would say that Savile was telling the truth when he said he didn't like children. His actions are hate crimes.
<br />Hi Shy, <br />Yes I scanned through the link you put up (thank you for that, it was a reeaaal long one, I have to read it again more carefully right now!) and indeed it IS all highly suspicious, however I would like to wait and hear what will happen in October, that's when a court hearing is scheduled if I remember it correctly.<br />
<br /><br />Yes Do, it is a very long post, but the longer the more detailed, imo
^^^RK, it wasn't right from me to 'compare' Savile and Michael, for obvious reasons. i'm sorry for that.<br />Michael was displaying his love for children and I have not a single shred of doubt in my heart that his love for them wasn't pure and sincere. <br /><br />Maybe I can give you another example. A female co-worker of mine had, while (happily) married, a short (and sexual) relationship with another co-worker (also married). Because people started to suspect 'something' was going on, she took a step ahead and, in some kind of 'joky' manner, 'admitted' she and him were totally in love and crazy about one another. That isn't something people expect to hear, they expect strong denials and exasperation. Thus, they concluded, they were totally wrong about their suspicion of this so called 'love-affair', because if this affair were true, she wouldn't be so 'in their face' about it. <br /><br />I don't know if I have made clear what I was trying to tell you. But in short: sometimes 'in your face' is the best disguise. <br /><br />And, once again, I know this is a very difficult subject and I am not accusing anyone, just trying to compare some parallels.<br />
@ Do, after reading all your posts on this topic, I have to wonder what your motive is and what point you are trying to prove. Theres no point in steady beating a dead horse kwim? We are all fans here, but it seems that some "fans" are out to continue to cause division within the MJ community. And I always wonder why. Then it seems as if its from those that don't post often or had a long vacation between the posts and then suddenly pop up again with negative comments.<br /><br /> Anyway I know that MJ was investigated by the FBI for over 10 years. If the FBI investigates you, believe me, if you are doing wrong, they will find out. They leave no stone unturned. Its always been that way. That speaks volumes. They found nothing on him. Neither did the police during the raid. Nothing. Zilch.<br /><br />Also, if someone abused my kid, I wouldn't take a dime from them. I want them under the prison. Of course we all have to be realistic and think of the what if. But, there is no evidence of any abuse. Anybody could be accused of being a child molester, but without evidence, there is no proof. That's all we have to go on. I believe that MJ was innocent. I do think he should've made wiser choices though. <br /><br />I think he was blackballed in Hollywood by the Illuminati because he didn't want to do what they said. The more he spoke out against them, the more the accusations came in the media. Wade Robson is flat broke. He was blackballed in Hollywood once he slept with Britney Spears and broke her and J. Timberlake up and had the audacity to call Justin and tell him about it. He hasn't worked since. Hes a liar, has no character and is broke. Lets not forget that ROBSON is the one who testified and said that MJ did NOTHING to him. Nobody forced him to come to that courtroom. He voluntarily came. Think about that
HI Michaelslady, <br /><br /> Do is also a Fan or admirer of MJ, we all are, maybe i am also not allowed to say anything because i don't post for long times either. i have been a member from 2010 and i read almost everyday, tho there were times i felt out/ not accepted. so i didnt say anything for some time, finally i have the feeling things are different now. so i tried to post again, but remember i never left, like many of us.<br />And i do like the debate, and i do believe ,we all are entiltled to say what we want as long it's done in a respectfull way to other members as well towards MJ, and to me DO did that.. <br />
<br />@ Do, after reading all your posts on this topic, I have to wonder what your motive is and what point you are trying to prove. Theres no point in steady beating a dead horse kwim? We are all fans here, but it seems that some "fans" are out to continue to cause division within the MJ community. And I always wonder why. Then it seems as if its from those that don't post often or had a long vacation between the posts and then suddenly pop up again with negative comments.<br /><br /> Anyway I know that MJ was investigated by the FBI for over 10 years. If the FBI investigates you, believe me, if you are doing wrong, they will find out. They leave no stone unturned. Its always been that way. That speaks volumes. They found nothing on him. Neither did the police during the raid. Nothing. Zilch.<br /><br />Also, if someone abused my kid, I wouldn't take a dime from them. I want them under the prison. Of course we all have to be realistic and think of the what if. But, there is no evidence of any abuse. Anybody could be accused of being a child molester, but without evidence, there is no proof. That's all we have to go on. I believe that MJ was innocent. I do think he should've made wiser choices though. <br /><br />I think he was blackballed in Hollywood by the Illuminati because he didn't want to do what they said. The more he spoke out against them, the more the accusations came in the media. Wade Robson is flat broke. He was blackballed in Hollywood once he slept with Britney Spears and broke her and J. Timberlake up and had the audacity to call Justin and tell him about it. He hasn't worked since. Hes a liar, has no character and is broke. Lets not forget that ROBSON is the one who testified and said that MJ did NOTHING to him. Nobody forced him to come to that courtroom. He voluntarily came. Think about that<br />
<br /><br />I understand you're confused. But there are no motives an no points to prove. Just a debate about 'other scenario's'. I'm mainly pointing to the 'new' cases. Wade's accusation is highly doubtful, but what about Jimmy Safechuck's?<br />You said you wouldn't take a dime, but would you let your kid sleep night after night in a hotelroom in bed with an adult male, while you stayed across the street in another hotel? Some people have different morals then others. So yes, some would take the money and stay silent. To be clear, this is (again) no accusation against Michael.
<br />Applehead, isn't that quote from the movie Now You See Me? A great clue movie, IMO. In any case, I think Wade is helping to set something up. If Michael wants to clear his name once and for all, he may choose to revisit the matter and deal with it head on once and for all. After all, it's from TMZ! <br />
<br /><br />HOW? How is more allegations EVER going to clear his name?<br />
<br /><br />That is a good question and I can't say I have the answer. After all, Michael has outthought me at every turn so far! I'm not so sure all the PR over the last 5 years has done much to change the minds of the people who believed he was/is a pedophile. Perhaps Michael is using this story to gauge public reaction. Perhaps Wade is part of a sting operation. I really don't know. But I'm convinced Wade Robson is working under Michael's direction. And if he drew the [size=24pt]short straw [/size]and gets to play the bad guy for the moment, so be it. <br />
<br /><br />Ha! :icon_lol: yeah. There used to be a looong list of molesters of children held by the JW church officials. These hundreds of thousands of names were supposedly adults within the various fellowships nationwide who approached elders for absolution or counseling or behavior modification from the church, and also reported names from victims in the churches, who were "hushed up" and counselled as well by the hierarchy. They said that no one would be served by public scorn of the sick and the injured (and most of the injured were not taken seriously as victims but as disrespectful kids trying to control certain adults with lies). <br /><br />None :icon_e_confused: of these cases ever were investigated by law enforcement or social services, as the church wished to handle things, themselves... except a few who were terrorized enough to leave the church and seek legal advice. This alleged list was a holy grail when the Federal Sex Offender legislation was enacted which made it a crime not to report this to police, and required public register of such felons, and law enforcement tried to get it by any means. I never heard any more about it.<br /><br />Perhaps they never could get the church officials to admit they kept such records, and MJ who may have been muscled more than once by "Them" and realized the true existence of it, is using someone who owes him bigtime to break these secrets wide open. I don't logically see how, but we don't really have enough facts yet. Was this guy a JW ever? Maybe they are trying to force the church governors to cough up something on MJ to silence all the persecution of "one of their own" (since he's died), as a wedge which will open the secret vault of ALL the records? They once were all about protecting their own "faithful".... Maybe they just need to be able to prove SOME thing on him was kept in those records, in order to subpoena EVERYTHING on record there? IDK. It could very well be a sting of sorts, and Mr. "Rhinocerous skin" would be the perfect hero to FAKE a fall for this! :bowdown: :woohoo2: ;D I'm just hiding and watching, WOW! :Michael_Jackson_dancing_smile
<br />Wow im seeing a lot of haters within the MJ community of so called fans lately. hmm. Wonder whos planting them?<br />
<br /><br /><br />ummm i know you haven't been around too long but i don't think most of us would call ourselves fans. at least not in the sense of what fan means to a lot of people. but everyone just would like to see what the truth is and what is fair and just for michael. not looking at everything through rose colored glasses is not hate. just saying.
No I haven't been here long, but been dedicated fan for 30+ years. I don't look at everything thru rose colored glasses. I guess I don't understand why someone who isn't "fan" would even waste their time here. I personally NEVER even visit forums or websites of people that im not a fan of. Im not a Beyoncé fan and wouldn't even waste a moment of my time commenting on anything regarding her, albeit good or bad. And I didn't necessarily mean just on this forum by my earlier post. I am seeing a lot of negativity from so called fans on facebook and twitter. Its weird to me.
<br />@ it's her,....From what source do you get your information ??<br />
<br /><br />I read a lot. At one time it was my job to keep up with Sex Offender Law and news. That's when I first learned about the supposed "list" or records. When clergy in the Catholic church began to make headlines as child abusers, a "btw" was in that news that other churches have their own (private, internal) ways of dealing with self-confessed or accused abusers, also, and that the JW church had kept extensive records on members, since its beginning beCAUSE of their practice to micromanage the members' personal spiritual walks and progress, with threats of being excommunicated for not being fully submitting to church authority and personal directives of elders. I have read enough religious (not only JW) horror stories in books, to think that some of it is more than just disgruntled ex-members lashing out. But it is the actual court cases which ring true. People who are shamed into conformity for generations do not go to the expense of sticking their neck out in courts of law, embarrassing their families, unless there has been real injury to be addressed. <br /><br />The material I read at that time is long gone in my old work files, but may be online somewhere. It wasn't classified or anything, but in the daily news (for what that's worth). But here is a link to examples of the kind of things which happened and how the church misguidedly tried to handle criminal situations "in house". In some cases, it appears that elders simply didn't believe what they were hearing from women and children as they reported such filth about respected ministers, known to them! But whatever---they had no authority to block (by intimidation & censure of entire families) alleged victims from reporting this to law enforcement or Child Services for proper investigation. This is what people are up in arms about. ALL this festering injury under religious cover, and REPEATING instances! <br /><br />http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/08/27/11068333/130812 PLT complaint for damages_ENDORSED.pdf<br /><br />And I didn't mean that MJ's old church government had any TRUE derogatory reports on him in any way! Only records documenting that, as one of their ministers, he was formally accused(and cleared of!)certain criminal events/ actions. We already KNOW it to be a fact that the church tried to interfere with his work and art, poisoning his mind about promoting the occult and creating product unbecoming a minister of the church with the Thriller short film...well, :suspect: :icon_e_surprised: unless he or Randy Taraborelli made that up, about why MJ placed a disclaimer at the beginning of the film. I know he has a flair for the :icon_albino: controversial, but I don't think he made that up about his own (then) church. I think it is evidence that someone HAD intimidated him about it!<br /><br />They misunderstood him and leaned on him about it, to control him and he set everyone straight (and back, on their butts, btw! :th_bravo: ) by declaring his convictions ON the film and making history with it. Sometimes a man has to remind the confused herd WHO is the boss of his own soul and destiny. :icon_mrgreen: :smiley_abuv:
Hello It's Her,<br /><br />first, i want to thank you for your reply. i try to reply to you but it will be later, i have difficultys to explain what i want to say. due to language. and it will cost mtime wich i havent right now.<br /><br />i will add a link about wade robsons body languages, wich is imo interesting:<br /><br /> /><br />
<br />No I haven't been here long, but been dedicated fan for 30+ years. I don't look at everything thru rose colored glasses. I guess I don't understand why someone who isn't "fan" would even waste their time here. I personally NEVER even visit forums or websites of people that im not a fan of. Im not a Beyoncé fan and wouldn't even waste a moment of my time commenting on anything regarding her, albeit good or bad. And I didn't necessarily mean just on this forum by my earlier post. I am seeing a lot of negativity from so called fans on facebook and twitter. Its weird to me.<br />
<br /><br /><br />I am one of those ,,isn"t a fan,, in your words<br />I explained how i ended up here many times,because with the o2 anouncement and his death i saw things that did not look okay to me..<br />I love the music from Michael,and now i love the person that i discovered he is, trough investigating but i never was a fan.<br />Before i knew nothing about him,just his music.<br /><br />And yes if the same thing happened with beyonce,i would be here too.(i would not consider that a waste of my time also)<br />Because here it is in my opinion also about justice,and finding the truth,and less about being the biggest fan.<br />Because every person(wen there is reason to believe they are) mistreated like Michael deserves people's help in finding the truth.<br />And in finding the truth you have to looke at every angle..also the not so nice ones.<br />But that is not negativity from so called fans,it is being realistic!<br />We just need to respect each other :smiley_abuv:<br /><br />I tried my best on the English writing,and hope it makes sense.<br /><br />
<br />@ShyBleuEyes, what are you trying to say regarding Robsons body language? Please enlighten me here. thanks<br />
<br /><br />I always and still think MJ is innocent, and i like to add proof that he is innocent, also for people who come and visit the forum, but who doesn't have the knowledge or haven't dig into this story, i like to add proof and facts that will underline the truth, wich is that MJ never did something wrong to any child.<br />This vid was imo an interesting one, also because it's giving me a better view of how the mind and body works.<br />There is clearly a huge difference between Sandunsky's answers and MJ's way back, MJ said in de past, ï will slit my wrist if i ever did something wrong to any child, ( not an excact quote). When the interviewer asked Sandunsky the question if he is sexual attracted to boy's he is avoiding the question big time.<br />I hope i have answered your question Michaelslady, if not please say so..<br /><br />I also just want to point out that Wade talks about his truth! so NOT the truth but his.
/><br /><br />i can not really explain it but this interview gave me the same feeling as the above clip of martin bashir . like there was a dread there about what was happening. with bashir it was like there was so much more that could be said but he couldn't . same way with wade like he was just there to repeat what the interviewer was putting out there and he was not liking the taste of it coming out of his mouth. does that make any sense to anyone?
<br />Hello It's Her,<br /><br />first, i want to thank you for your reply. i try to reply to you but it will be later, i have difficultys to explain what i want to say. due to language. and it will cost mtime wich i havent right now.<br /><br />i will add a link about wade robsons body languages, wich is imo interesting:<br /><br /> />
<br /><br />Hi Shy, I think his body language is TOO subdued for him to be telling "his" truth or ANY other truth! :icon_e_biggrin: He has been "coached" very well---and I DO mean Hoax Coached!!! :icon_albino: Notice how he almost RECOILS from SAYing anything specifically creepy, as Matt Lauer prods him!!! It is very very very subtle...but he stays in character, bites the bullet and says JUST what M.L. said (loosely that:), "he did things to me and I did things to him". <br /><br />Usually grown victims are so sickened & incensed by what things they remember of the abuse, and are shockingly plain about it in order to make their audience feel AS repulsed as well. Even victims who are horrified and almost ashamed of their part (being there, submitting to it), mince NO words about what happened lest they not be taken seriously. His :icon_arrow: milli-second hesitation to give what few gory details he could on television, tells what he knows to be true in his core, that MJ never did this. It doesn't ring true at all that he believed for one second that these kinds of acts are "loving", "but let's keep it between us". He wasn't 5, he was 7-14!, he said, and even a seven year old knows if you have to hide something from your parents or friends, IT MUST BE WRONG SOME how. Even a low functioning late bloomer would have realized it before 12, even if he didn’t do anything about it. YUK! :icon_mad: It's another LIE that he only reacted inside with disgust about this happening to him when he had a son himself! Who does THAT? :icon_e_confused: :errrr:<br /><br />I believe WR is a big Hoaxer. Now...WHY? <br /><br />Not only was it verrrry interesting that he volunteered the information that these memories were not "repressed memories”, but it is MORE interesting that Lauer and the body language expert went there as if it made a difference, or they were calling out the difference, officially. People have been winning court cases with "repressed" memories for decades, and about half the people who hear about these instances believe people can peacefully live years with their abuser and not KNOW it until someone digs in their minds and finds these "memories”. Actually, (and this is very unpopular) there is no such thing; people who were traumatized enough to have lost those memories are also damaged physically (in the brain, as in car crashes or beatings), and these memories are not recoverable, no matter who digs in there. Sometimes "suggestion by therapist" memories are taken for what they are worth, evidentially, and thrown out. Maybe that's why it was drawn attention to, there. Maybe that was the most important point of the entire interview, a point of contention in his case. Maybe this court case is to establish some manner of case law on this subject (if there is none already), and stop either batty or crafty criminal professionals from turning patients into cash cows by declaring “the doctrine of repressed memories” to be fiction? But if his memories were not ever repressed, just denied, this point is not even relevant. Idk, just reaching. But three people on the vid made a point about it in the space of a few minutes! :suspect: It means something... <br /><br />Maybe WR only made the point of stating it so his case WON'T be thrown out as memories manufactured way after the fact. If so, he is expecting everyone to believe that these memories were on his mind AS he was covering for his abuser in right in court! Does that ever :icon_rolleyes: happen outside of some gangsters threatening your whole family if you don't testify FOR the accused? (Most victims are terrified of facing in court someone who hurt & humiliated them!) Is that what he is faking to reveal?? Nothing like this involves WR OR MJ truly. What is all this a smokescreen for, then? :Pulling_hair:
<br />Hello It's Her,<br /><br />first, i want to thank you for your reply. i try to reply to you but it will be later, i have difficultys to explain what i want to say. due to language. and it will cost mtime wich i havent right now.<br /><br />i will add a link about wade robsons body languages, wich is imo interesting:<br /><br /> />
<br /><br />Hi Shy, I think his body language is TOO subdued for him to be telling "his" truth or ANY other truth! :icon_e_biggrin: He has been "coached" very well---and I DO mean Hoax Coached!!! :icon_albino:[size=18pt] Notice how he almost RECOILS from SAYing anything specifically creepy, as Matt Lauer prods him!!! [/size]It is very very very subtle...but he stays in character, bites the bullet and says JUST what M.L. said (loosely that:), "he did things to me and I did things to him". <br /><br />Usually grown victims are so sickened & incensed by what things they remember of the abuse, and are shockingly plain about it in order to make their audience feel AS repulsed as well. Even victims who are horrified and almost ashamed of their part (being there, submitting to it), mince NO words about what happened lest they not be taken seriously. His :icon_arrow: milli-second hesitation to give what few gory details he could on television, tells what he knows to be true in his core, that MJ never did this. It doesn't ring true at all that he believed for one second that these kinds of acts are "loving", "but let's keep it between us". He wasn't 5, he was 7-14!, he said, and even a seven year old knows if you have to hide something from your parents or friends, IT MUST BE WRONG SOME how. Even a low functioning late bloomer would have realized it before 12, even if he didn’t do anything about it. YUK! :icon_mad: It's another LIE that he only reacted inside with disgust about this happening to him when he had a son himself! Who does THAT? :icon_e_confused: :errrr:<br /><br />I believe WR is a big Hoaxer. Now...WHY? <br /><br />Not only was it verrrry interesting that he volunteered the information that these memories were not "repressed memories”, but it is MORE interesting that Lauer and the body language expert went there as if it made a difference, or they were calling out the difference, officially. People have been winning court cases with "repressed" memories for decades, and about half the people who hear about these instances believe people can peacefully live years with their abuser and not KNOW it until someone digs in their minds and finds these "memories”. Actually, (and this is very unpopular) there is no such thing; people who were traumatized enough to have lost those memories are also damaged physically (in the brain, as in car crashes or beatings), and these memories are not recoverable, no matter who digs in there. Sometimes "suggestion by therapist" memories are taken for what they are worth, evidentially, and thrown out. Maybe that's why it was drawn attention to, there. Maybe that was the most important point of the entire interview, a point of contention in his case. Maybe this court case is to establish some manner of case law on this subject (if there is none already), and stop either batty or crafty criminal professionals from turning patients into cash cows by declaring “the doctrine of repressed memories” to be fiction? But if his memories were not ever repressed, just denied, this point is not even relevant. Idk, just reaching. But three people on the vid made a point about it in the space of a few minutes! :suspect: It means something... <br /><br />Maybe WR only made the point of stating it so his case WON'T be thrown out as memories manufactured way after the fact. If so, he is expecting everyone to believe that these memories were on his mind AS he was covering for his abuser in right in court! Does that ever :icon_rolleyes: happen outside of some gangsters threatening your whole family if you don't testify FOR the accused? (Most victims are terrified of facing in court someone who hurt & humiliated them!) Is that what he is faking to reveal?? Nothing like this involves WR OR MJ truly. What is all this a smokescreen for, then? :Pulling_hair:<br />
<br /><br />there ya go ...... you found my words .....lol
I find it hard to swallow that WR is part of the hoax, i don't think it will help MJ to further dirt his name. because there are lots of people who only hear what the media tells them. So the allegations will hang in their minds for ever, even while he was aquitted from it in 2005,there are still lots of people who believe the line "if there is smoke, there must be fire". <br /><br />Strangely enough it's MJ who had to proof he is innocent for all these years, It's the law who says" innocent untill proven quilty".,and thats how it should be, but the world just doesn't seem to work that way,.... doesn't?
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