So....the L.A. Coroner Just Happened To.........

mjboogiemjboogie Posts: 1,067
edited January 1970 in General Hoax Investigation
Guys I was sitting here thinking about the court granting access to MJ's body fluids to test the levels of propofol which supposedly leaves the body quickly. OK DID THE CORONER JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE MJ"S LIQUIDS PRESERVED?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I find this to be really really strange that the coroner would have his fluids? Can those fluids still be tested this late I mean it has been since JUne ? July? since the initial autopsy was performed on MJ right? Anybody understand what I am trying to say? Is it routine for a coroner to hold something like body fluids this long?
Did the coroner do this maybe until the trial? or the court proceedings? Remember his brain? They supposedly kept his brain for a certain amount of time before returning it to the mortuary right? IDK it just seems sooooo crazy. Maybe I am reading into this too far but.....this kinda reminds me of when Latoya witnessed them going to MJ's body and plucking hairs for testing like ummmmmmmm a couple of months after his "death"? Remember? Your thoughts on this? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> What the hell is going on!
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Comments

  • VeryLittleSusieVeryLittleSusie Posts: 1,483
    They claim they took some samples of fluids during the alleged autopsy and now they're going to re-test it...

    <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->

    I wonder whose those samples were because they were sure not Michael's <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
  • magicmagic Posts: 18
    Maybe it's not drug levels they will be checking. What about DNA? Isn't MJ's DNA on record from the trial?
  • mjboogiemjboogie Posts: 1,067
    The thing is....why would they wait this long. I mean this has been since June and July for the initial autopsy? It doesn't make sense that they would intentionally have Mikes body fluids preserved. I mean who preserves body fluids for over a year? Any medical experts here? Can propofol be detected in body fluids that have been preserved even though we know that it vanishes from the body quick but I wonder how long it can be detected in body fluids? This is crazy! To me someone is stalling. They already tested the levels of propofol which is stated in the A.R.? So...... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
  • mumof3mumof3 Posts: 1,973
    I would have thought they would have already tested the fluids and they would already have the results
  • suspicious mindsuspicious mind Posts: 5,984
    so are you saying why didn't someone from murry's camp ask for this as soon as the first results came and the level was high. and you are also wondering if it is common practice for the fluids to be preserved from an autopsy that oringinally was only looking for a cause of death such as heart attack. or are they goin' to have to exume a body?

    sometimes wonder if all of this stuff is legit or it just screams why isn't somebody paying attention here.
  • trublutrublu Posts: 1,011
    I think if someones 'death' is found as suspicious, which might lead to a trial, body fluids would be preserved as evidence.

    But heck, I'm not a scientist/coroner/someone who reads up on the preservation of body fluids! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->

    I wish a doctor or someone would enlighten us about this...
  • mjboogiemjboogie Posts: 1,067
    so are you saying why didn't someone from murry's camp ask for this as soon as the first results came and the level was high. and you are also wondering if it is common practice for the fluids to be preserved from an autopsy that oringinally was only looking for a cause of death such as heart attack. or are they goin' to have to exume a body?

    sometimes wonder if all of this stuff is legit or it just screams why isn't somebody paying attention here.
    That is why we are all so confused I mean WTF? How are they gonna come back over a year and just be like "We need MJ's body fluids!"

    L.A. Coroner " Well I guess I will keep some of MJ for my memory or collection? Hugh? I am wondering did someone order or instruct the coroner to keep his fluids (if this is true)
    I know who we need to talk to or email or tweet...........ED WINTER OR CRAIG HARVEY! From L.A. coroners office? <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
  • all4loveandbelieveall4loveandbelieve Posts: 4,455
    Does anyone know a Doctor who is a friend, that can explain if they can retest the fluids after one yr and 2 months? Maybe we can come to a conclusion if we do have an accurate answer.
  • CCCC Posts: 2,136
    I DON´T THINK THEY CAN HAVE LHE FLUIDS PRESERVED ALMOST 15 MONTH LATER... BUT I WILL ASK TO A FRIEND WHO IS DOCTOR AND THEN I TELL YOU... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> MAYBE THEY WILL RE READ THE RESULTS OF THE TEST THAT WAS DONE AT AUTOPSY... BUT IS ALL SO WEIRD... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I´M SURE THEY CAN TAKE FLUIDS FROM THE BODY NOW. I´M SURE OF THAT...
  • michaelsupportermichaelsupporter Posts: 889
    To get an accurate answer, one needs to ask a pathologist. Hope someone knows one!
  • becbec Posts: 6,387
    No one ever said the coroner had fluids from MJ's body. Keep that in mind.
  • libra8libra8 Posts: 170
    The Defense would have the right to run their own tests for propofol level.

    Assuming coroner does have the fluids to test, wouldnt the propofol deteriorate over a 13mth time? & then level of propofol would be lower than originally tested??
    So, then the Defense can say look the propofol level isnt that high after all.

    Yes, need to hear from pathologist whether propofol in fluids deteriorates over time.
  • mjj_fanmjj_fan Posts: 311
    By chance I log in today and read this article but are you sure coroner said he has preserved the sample for future analysis ???, i already said and still maintain, the propofol leaves the body very quickly hence the first urine and blood samples are very important from forensic point of view , i m really surprised if they are running test after 15months, due to rapid changes by autolysis, the old samples give false negative results and are discarded by the lab as the time is mention by staff or phlebotomist while the samples have been taken out from the body, thats why tests are always run on fresh samples, i m talking about the body fluids not tissue sample for histopathology , and by old samples means more than 48 hrs

    for those interested to read more here are links


    <!-- m -->http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/decomposition<!-- m -->

    <!-- m -->http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rig ... anges.html<!-- m -->


    Hope that helps,Godbless
  • ChristianaChristiana Posts: 626
    Assuming Michael is dead (or even if they just want to preserve the illusion that he is), the logical reason they would ask to test the fluids themselves is because they don't believe the original results are correct. Murray's story all along has been that he didn't give MJ anything that should have killed him. This would be their effort to see if they can prove that with their own testing, which they have a legal right to do. And just as a matter of procedure, they may not have been legally able to make that request until now.

    The info below is from another community (NOT a hoax community) from someone in the medical field:

    If you cryo-preserve tissue (preserve by freezing), you can get accurate reads on all protein and RNA levels with minimal degradation. If you perfuse tissue (preserve with formaldehyde), you can still get accurate reads on protein levels, but RNA degrades from the warm temperature of the tissue. I've never actually looked for the presence of a drug in tissue I have worked with, but I would assume that, depending on the type of drug we are talking about, you could look for its presence in tissue in the same way. I have never preserved blood samples outside of extracting DNA (which is an extremely stable molecule), so I'm not sure what would need to be done to preserve blood in such a way that nothing in it would degrade. My guess is that all fluids were flash-frozen and will be thawed for repeat molecular testing.

    Also, Propofol undergoes oxidative degradation, in the presence of oxygen, and is therefore packaged under nitrogen to eliminate this degradation path.

    The autopsy also showed that propofol was found throughout the body--in the blood, urine, bile and brain tissues. But the request to test the fluids is likely nothing more than a media tactic (to influence the jury pool), and/or a means to prolong the trial process.
  • mjj_fanmjj_fan Posts: 311
    @Christina Can you please send me the link to that article I want to read more, although the propofol was found in body fluids and they measured the drug level from aqueous humour already what they want more? aqueous -humour, the body fluid detects the propofol level most accurately and can be kept frozen and the slides for histopathology too but there is no use of preserving the blood specially as the cells break down releasing all the chemical contents including enzymes and electrolytes , for propofol the usual pathway of metabolism is through hydroxylation and glucuronidation by Cyt P450 system in liver and bile and finally excreted out through kidneys
    Propofol is a water-immiscible oil basically , so is used as an emulsion of a soya oil/propofol mixture in water, this makes it appear as a highly opaque white fluid.
  • DancingTheDreamDancingTheDream Posts: 4,923
    I think if someones 'death' is found as suspicious, which might lead to a trial, body fluids would be preserved as evidence.

    But heck, I'm not a scientist/coroner/someone who reads up on the preservation of body fluids! <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: -->

    I wish a doctor or someone would enlighten us about this...

    I agree with this. I would be surprised if the fluids were NOT preserved. It is, after all, crucial evidence and Murrays defence team have every right to ask for them and re-test them for a second opinion.

    This is why the news that the syringe was being auctioned was so off... i still dont believe that story as the syringe would also be crucial evidence for fingerprints, DNA, etc.

    I am assuming (as i do not know) - but i am assuming that these fluids would have been frozen to preserve them.
  • mjj_fanmjj_fan Posts: 311
    I wish if Murrays lawyers used some common sense by asking for samples AT THE TIME OF AUTOPSY not now like Ms Katherine made request for 2nd private autopsy she had her doubts which I understand completly and its her right . But whats the role of coroner then ? he is a neutral person who is responsible for maintaing chain-of-custody otherwise every day ever other person woulkd stand up and ask for seprate autopsy , the whole procedure is kept on record in a tape recorder , the forensic pathologist speak out loud and clear so that one of the person in the room write down everything he says , since its about Michael Jackson and the nature of the case , i believe they must be very very careful about each and everything ,the autopsy is routinely done within 3 hrs but it lasted for 7hrs so you can imagine now how hard they tried to note each and every minute detail , i already said earlier the body samples under various alises in the autopsy report were used to avoid getting bias reports ,same must be the case with histology slides they were not send to pathologist under name of Michael Jackson , and there is strong possibility all the samples were send to various hospitals or to the same pathologist many times not just one ,and it happen very often , all the reused medical equipment shouldnot go on auction , its pure insanity
  • hesouttamylifehesouttamylife Posts: 5,393
    Just how long are these body fluids still considered "reliable"? Doesn't some things break down and chemically change over time? I'm confused <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
  • DancingTheDreamDancingTheDream Posts: 4,923
    Just how long are these body fluids still considered "reliable"? Doesn't some things break down and chemically change over time? I'm confused <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->

    What if they freeze them?
  • chappiechappie Posts: 529
    [youtube:3bipygog]

    Chappie
  • hesouttamylifehesouttamylife Posts: 5,393
    But even things put in the freezer have a "use by" date. Would body fluids also?
  • hesouttamylifehesouttamylife Posts: 5,393
    I found my answer for blood: Frozen blood can be stored for 10 years from the date of blood collection.
    http://thebloodconnection.org/products-services/laboratory-services/frozen-blood-program
  • all4loveandbelieveall4loveandbelieve Posts: 4,455
    I have a strong feeling, that they cannot test the samples due to some problem, and they probably have to exhume the body, and that's when we will find out that MJ is not the one who died. I guess that's how we will find out. I feel it is going towards that direction.
  • hesouttamylifehesouttamylife Posts: 5,393
    I have a strong feeling, that they cannot test the samples due to some problem, and they probably have to exhume the body, and that's when we will find out that MJ is not the one who died. I guess that's how we will find out. I feel it is going towards that direction.

    Sounds like a solid plan to me. <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> Then the next headlines would read - GRAVE ROBBERS ...ETC. <!-- s:lol: -->:lol:<!-- s:lol: --> But we know <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
  • ChristianaChristiana Posts: 626
    @Christina Can you please send me the link to that article I want to read more, although the propofol was found in body fluids and they measured the drug level from aqueous humour already what they want more? aqueous -humour, the body fluid detects the propofol level most accurately and can be kept frozen and the slides for histopathology too but there is no use of preserving the blood specially as the cells break down releasing all the chemical contents including enzymes and electrolytes , for propofol the usual pathway of metabolism is through hydroxylation and glucuronidation by Cyt P450 system in liver and bile and finally excreted out through kidneys
    Propofol is a water-immiscible oil basically , so is used as an emulsion of a soya oil/propofol mixture in water, this makes it appear as a highly opaque white fluid.

    It wasn't an "article," mjj_fan. It was a post in another community by someone in the medical field. And what I have posted is what was said. And since it is not a hoax community I don't want to link to it. My point in referencing it was only in as much as I thought it was relevant to the questions at hand in this thread. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
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