I think TS has a lot of valid points that lead me to believe he is somewhat in the know as well. My problem with the whole subject of TS is that one main message presented in his posts is the fact that you need to think for yourself. But, that is a contradiction to what happens sometimes on this forum. The people that speak against or question TS have been verbally bashed and sometimes banned in the past.
So, it's not so much TS that makes me question him. It's actually how people are treated on this forum when they question TS. If people are truly thinking for themselves, they don't have to believe in TS if they don't want to. But those people are made to feel like the bad guys here.
Now, I understand that there may be other reasons why those people have been banned other than bashing TS that I am not aware of. But, if people are truly thinking for themselves, and they choose not to believe in TS completely, then they shouldn't be bashed for thinking for themselves.
I guess this whole hoax has made me a bit suspicious and untrusting, which is not my character. I live in a place where the crime rate is next to nothing. In fact, my state has been called the safest state in the US. We are trusting and kind people. I pray to God that I have not been duped and played the fool. I pray that in the end, the good guys win and the bad guys go down.
I don't want to offend anyone by this post. I just wanted to express the way I have observed things. This is how I see things...through my eyes...others probably see it differently.
I understand what you say, and I can say that I feel like that too, sometimes, and I don't want to refrain from saying my opinion, because I do think for myself. People who have different opinion or even oposite opinions are somehow told or insinuate "what the hell are you doing here?". But I hold on with my teeth on what I believe and my brain does think on its own, so we are free to express what we believe and think. That's why I wanted to open this thread and say what bothers me and what I do not find as stricking evidence. Others might think differently, and that's ok, but that doesn't make one opinion wrong and the other right. So I support everyone to stop being afraid to be bashed if they want to state their own convinctions and opinions.
I address ths to no one in particular.
Anna, I agree with you 100%. And by the way, I don't believe in numerology either.
Neither do I. In the slightest bit.
But TS's "proof" isn't based on numerology. MJ invented his own little numbers thing, the Dangerous Code. TS deciphered it and showed us how the hoax is intertwined in the code (or vice versa, the code is intertwined in the hoax).
The Dangerous code is very complex, and not based on "numerology". The greatest proof is that no one before TS (or since) has been able to crack the Dangerous code. Throughout this hoax, nearly every single "proof" or theory that has been presented has been shared by several people, presented simultaneously, worked on as a group project, or thought of before, after, during, since.... the hive mind concept.
TS's deciphering of the Dangerous code stands alone as a solo presentation. This is interesting.
One theory to explain this is that TS is the inventor of the code. A code so complex that it cannot be cracked/hasn't been cracked except by one individual suggests that the one individual also invented it.
So it's like connecting the dots. ONE person deciphers the code. And the code happens to fit into all the major events of the hoax/all the major events are based on or track back to the code. This suggests that the hoax was planned ahead of time based on the code. Which in turn suggests that TS not only invented the code, but also the hoax.
Is anyone following me?
So yes, I agree numerology is nonsense. But someone making up their own brand of numerology and then planning events based on it is not at all nonsense.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. There is no agreed upon standard by which the deciphering of the code can be judged. The only one who would know the standard would be the person who devised the code in the first place.
By the way, my original post did not underline "by the way I don't believe in numerology either." By you underlining it, it makes it look as though I emphasized it, which I did not.
I think TS has a lot of valid points that lead me to believe he is somewhat in the know as well. My problem with the whole subject of TS is that one main message presented in his posts is the fact that you need to think for yourself. But, that is a contradiction to what happens sometimes on this forum. The people that speak against or question TS have been verbally bashed and sometimes banned in the past.
So, it's not so much TS that makes me question him. It's actually how people are treated on this forum when they question TS. If people are truly thinking for themselves, they don't have to believe in TS if they don't want to. But those people are made to feel like the bad guys here.
Now, I understand that there may be other reasons why those people have been banned other than bashing TS that I am not aware of. But, if people are truly thinking for themselves, and they choose not to believe in TS completely, then they shouldn't be bashed for thinking for themselves.
I guess this whole hoax has made me a bit suspicious and untrusting, which is not my character. I live in a place where the crime rate is next to nothing. In fact, my state has been called the safest state in the US. We are trusting and kind people. I pray to God that I have not been duped and played the fool. I pray that in the end, the good guys win and the bad guys go down.
I don't want to offend anyone by this post. I just wanted to express the way I have observed things. This is how I see things...through my eyes...others probably see it differently.
I understand what you say, and I can say that I feel like that too, sometimes, and I don't want to refrain from saying my opinion, because I do think for myself. People who have different opinion or even oposite opinions are somehow told or insinuate "what the hell are you doing here?". But I hold on with my teeth on what I believe and my brain does think on its own, so we are free to express what we believe and think. That's why I wanted to open this thread and say what bothers me and what I do not find as stricking evidence. Others might think differently, and that's ok, but that doesn't make one opinion wrong and the other right. So I support everyone to stop being afraid to be bashed if they want to state their own convinctions and opinions.
I address ths to no one in particular.
Anna, I agree with you 100%. And by the way, I don't believe in numerology either.
Neither do I. In the slightest bit.
But TS's "proof" isn't based on numerology. MJ invented his own little numbers thing, the Dangerous Code. TS deciphered it and showed us how the hoax is intertwined in the code (or vice versa, the code is intertwined in the hoax).
The Dangerous code is very complex, and not based on "numerology". The greatest proof is that no one before TS (or since) has been able to crack the Dangerous code. Throughout this hoax, nearly every single "proof" or theory that has been presented has been shared by several people, presented simultaneously, worked on as a group project, or thought of before, after, during, since.... the hive mind concept.
TS's deciphering of the Dangerous code stands alone as a solo presentation. This is interesting.
One theory to explain this is that TS is the inventor of the code. A code so complex that it cannot be cracked/hasn't been cracked except by one individual suggests that the one individual also invented it.
So it's like connecting the dots. ONE person deciphers the code. And the code happens to fit into all the major events of the hoax/all the major events are based on or track back to the code. This suggests that the hoax was planned ahead of time based on the code. Which in turn suggests that TS not only invented the code, but also the hoax.
Is anyone following me?
So yes, I agree numerology is nonsense. But someone making up their own brand of numerology and then planning events based on it is not at all nonsense.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. With someone making up their own code, they also have to make up their own standard for making up that code. The code has no agreed upon standard by which it can be judged. So anyone could make-up a code and a standard and say it's valid.
It reminds me of a joke among fiction writers: I know this to be true, because I made it up.
Yes of course, I agree with that 100%. The weird part is that no one else has. At least I haven't seen anyone else even try to decipher the Dangerous code much less make it so it's a valid equation, with both sides matching: x=y, and then have it so it is interwoven throughout the hoax in so many complex manners.
There must be a reason why it is so complex and the proof is so difficult to grasp. There's a reason why it exists but also a reason why it's not widely accepted. Like it's supposed to be a little known secret still because if MJ wanted everyone to know there was a legit informer for us out there... then everyone would know.
I think TS has a lot of valid points that lead me to believe he is somewhat in the know as well. My problem with the whole subject of TS is that one main message presented in his posts is the fact that you need to think for yourself. But, that is a contradiction to what happens sometimes on this forum. The people that speak against or question TS have been verbally bashed and sometimes banned in the past.
So, it's not so much TS that makes me question him. It's actually how people are treated on this forum when they question TS. If people are truly thinking for themselves, they don't have to believe in TS if they don't want to. But those people are made to feel like the bad guys here.
Now, I understand that there may be other reasons why those people have been banned other than bashing TS that I am not aware of. But, if people are truly thinking for themselves, and they choose not to believe in TS completely, then they shouldn't be bashed for thinking for themselves.
I guess this whole hoax has made me a bit suspicious and untrusting, which is not my character. I live in a place where the crime rate is next to nothing. In fact, my state has been called the safest state in the US. We are trusting and kind people. I pray to God that I have not been duped and played the fool. I pray that in the end, the good guys win and the bad guys go down.
I don't want to offend anyone by this post. I just wanted to express the way I have observed things. This is how I see things...through my eyes...others probably see it differently.
I understand what you say, and I can say that I feel like that too, sometimes, and I don't want to refrain from saying my opinion, because I do think for myself. People who have different opinion or even oposite opinions are somehow told or insinuate "what the hell are you doing here?". But I hold on with my teeth on what I believe and my brain does think on its own, so we are free to express what we believe and think. That's why I wanted to open this thread and say what bothers me and what I do not find as stricking evidence. Others might think differently, and that's ok, but that doesn't make one opinion wrong and the other right. So I support everyone to stop being afraid to be bashed if they want to state their own convinctions and opinions.
I address ths to no one in particular.
Anna, I agree with you 100%. And by the way, I don't believe in numerology either.
Neither do I. In the slightest bit.
But TS's "proof" isn't based on numerology. MJ invented his own little numbers thing, the Dangerous Code. TS deciphered it and showed us how the hoax is intertwined in the code (or vice versa, the code is intertwined in the hoax).
The Dangerous code is very complex, and not based on "numerology". The greatest proof is that no one before TS (or since) has been able to crack the Dangerous code. Throughout this hoax, nearly every single "proof" or theory that has been presented has been shared by several people, presented simultaneously, worked on as a group project, or thought of before, after, during, since.... the hive mind concept.
TS's deciphering of the Dangerous code stands alone as a solo presentation. This is interesting.
One theory to explain this is that TS is the inventor of the code. A code so complex that it cannot be cracked/hasn't been cracked except by one individual suggests that the one individual also invented it.
So it's like connecting the dots. ONE person deciphers the code. And the code happens to fit into all the major events of the hoax/all the major events are based on or track back to the code. This suggests that the hoax was planned ahead of time based on the code. Which in turn suggests that TS not only invented the code, but also the hoax.
Is anyone following me?
So yes, I agree numerology is nonsense. But someone making up their own brand of numerology and then planning events based on it is not at all nonsense.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. With someone making up their own code, they also have to make up their own standard for making up that code. The code has no agreed upon standard by which it can be judged. So anyone could make-up a code and a standard and say it's valid.
It reminds me of a joke among fiction writers: I know this to be true, because I made it up.
Yes of course, I agree with that 100%. The weird part is that no one else has. At least I haven't seen anyone else even try to decipher the Dangerous code much less make it so it's a valid equation, with both sides matching: x=y, and then have it so it is interwoven throughout the hoax in so many complex manners.
There must be a reason why it is so complex and the proof is so difficult to grasp. There's a reason why it exists but also a reason why it's not widely accepted. Like it's supposed to be a little known secret still because if MJ wanted everyone to know there was a legit informer for us out there... then everyone would know.
Please stop underlining sentences and phrases in my post that I did not emphasize. By doing this, it gives off an impression that I didn't intend. Thanks in advance.
I think TS has a lot of valid points that lead me to believe he is somewhat in the know as well. My problem with the whole subject of TS is that one main message presented in his posts is the fact that you need to think for yourself. But, that is a contradiction to what happens sometimes on this forum. The people that speak against or question TS have been verbally bashed and sometimes banned in the past.
So, it's not so much TS that makes me question him. It's actually how people are treated on this forum when they question TS. If people are truly thinking for themselves, they don't have to believe in TS if they don't want to. But those people are made to feel like the bad guys here.
Now, I understand that there may be other reasons why those people have been banned other than bashing TS that I am not aware of. But, if people are truly thinking for themselves, and they choose not to believe in TS completely, then they shouldn't be bashed for thinking for themselves.
I guess this whole hoax has made me a bit suspicious and untrusting, which is not my character. I live in a place where the crime rate is next to nothing. In fact, my state has been called the safest state in the US. We are trusting and kind people. I pray to God that I have not been duped and played the fool. I pray that in the end, the good guys win and the bad guys go down.
I don't want to offend anyone by this post. I just wanted to express the way I have observed things. This is how I see things...through my eyes...others probably see it differently.
I understand what you say, and I can say that I feel like that too, sometimes, and I don't want to refrain from saying my opinion, because I do think for myself. People who have different opinion or even oposite opinions are somehow told or insinuate "what the hell are you doing here?". But I hold on with my teeth on what I believe and my brain does think on its own, so we are free to express what we believe and think. That's why I wanted to open this thread and say what bothers me and what I do not find as stricking evidence. Others might think differently, and that's ok, but that doesn't make one opinion wrong and the other right. So I support everyone to stop being afraid to be bashed if they want to state their own convinctions and opinions.
I address ths to no one in particular.
Anna, I agree with you 100%. And by the way, I don't believe in numerology either.
Neither do I. In the slightest bit.
But TS's "proof" isn't based on numerology. MJ invented his own little numbers thing, the Dangerous Code. TS deciphered it and showed us how the hoax is intertwined in the code (or vice versa, the code is intertwined in the hoax).
The Dangerous code is very complex, and not based on "numerology". The greatest proof is that no one before TS (or since) has been able to crack the Dangerous code. Throughout this hoax, nearly every single "proof" or theory that has been presented has been shared by several people, presented simultaneously, worked on as a group project, or thought of before, after, during, since.... the hive mind concept.
TS's deciphering of the Dangerous code stands alone as a solo presentation. This is interesting.
One theory to explain this is that TS is the inventor of the code. A code so complex that it cannot be cracked/hasn't been cracked except by one individual suggests that the one individual also invented it.
So it's like connecting the dots. ONE person deciphers the code. And the code happens to fit into all the major events of the hoax/all the major events are based on or track back to the code. This suggests that the hoax was planned ahead of time based on the code. Which in turn suggests that TS not only invented the code, but also the hoax.
Is anyone following me?
So yes, I agree numerology is nonsense. But someone making up their own brand of numerology and then planning events based on it is not at all nonsense.
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. With someone making up their own code, they also have to make up their own standard for making up that code. The code has no agreed upon standard by which it can be judged. So anyone could make-up a code and a standard and say it's valid.
It reminds me of a joke among fiction writers: I know this to be true, because I made it up.
Yes of course, I agree with that 100%. The weird part is that no one else has. At least I haven't seen anyone else even try to decipher the Dangerous code much less make it so it's a valid equation, with both sides matching: x=y, and then have it so it is interwoven throughout the hoax in so many complex manners.
There must be a reason why it is so complex and the proof is so difficult to grasp. There's a reason why it exists but also a reason why it's not widely accepted. Like it's supposed to be a little known secret still because if MJ wanted everyone to know there was a legit informer for us out there... then everyone would know.
I understand what you're saying, but it's because the solving of the code seems to be so manipulated that I don't believe in it. You'd have to do a lot of manipulating in order to make things fit.
rayvyn: I am underlining or emphasizing the parts on your posts that I am responding to. It's a technique I use to facilitate communication on message boards. I'm not trying to insinuate that your original post contained those emphasis's (is that a word?). I didn't know it bothered you, I don't know how else to highlight a particular part of your post that I want to reply to?
Also, do you have any examples of what you mean by "You'd have to do a lot of manipulating in order to make things fit." so we could dig into them?
I did find the fact that TS directed to the Orson Welles site a week or so before the "Breaking News" song was released pretty amazing. That to me, is a clear sign that he definitely knows something.
rayvyn: I am underlining or emphasizing the parts on your posts that I am responding to. It's a technique I use to facilitate communication on message boards. I'm not trying to insinuate that your original post contained those emphasis's (is that a word?). I didn't know it bothered you, I don't know how else to highlight a particular part of your post that I want to reply to?
Also, do you have any examples of what you mean by "You'd have to do a lot of manipulating in order to make things fit." so we could dig into them?
No problem. I understand, and please continue to underline. <!-- s:-) -->:-)<!-- s:-) -->
I guess what I meant was that whenever I read TS's posts, much of it is was very confusing and seemed manipulated (his/her information). At times I felt as though I had to suspend reasoning. I'm sorry, I don't have any specific examples for you-- I've long stopped reading TS's posts because they were so confusing. Once I asked was he/she ever going to simplify it, because I felt as though some things could have been a lot more straight forward. I never got an answer. I may have asked twice, but I'm not sure on that.
I think I remember TS answering a similar question in an update, I don't know if it was your question exactly, but I do remember something about whether they w(c)ould simplify the updates and as I recall the answer was something along the lines of it not being possible to simplify and still be accurate.
And the subject brings me back to the conclusion that I draw from that:
There must be a reason why it [proof via TS] is so complex and the proof is so difficult to grasp. There's a reason why it exists but also a reason why it's not widely accepted. Like it's supposed to be a little known secret still
But why? Just because that's the point of a hoax? That's it's a secret? But it's got to be hard orchestrating this gigantic adventure and not be able to share it with everyone for this amount of time... so... is it that MJ wants to spill the beans a little so he concocted this way (the personality TS) in which to let off a little steam (let a few in on the secret) while still retaining total control?
These are questions to which I haven't any answers, which is why I like to debate this.
Here's what I am thinking with TS.....When I go back and read his posts, it gets long and confusing at times....I think because it is so much to absorb. I think TS's posts/redirects make more sense to those that read them the day they were redirected (for over a year ago now). They were able to see some the events unfold that TS had "predicted".
For example, some of the redirects/posts that have been made/presented since I learned about them (June 2010) make more sense to me because I was able to read the redirect/post the day it was posted and then see later on, what he was talking about. i.e. The Orson Welles redirect.
I know this doesn't fit for everyone, as there may be some that were there from the beginning and still don't believe fully in TS, but it might help explain why there is such a division on him.
What I don't understand is why does it have to be so secretive? We all want answers. Just tell what he/she knows, instead of these long confusing wordy explanations. I believe it could be much simpler. I know what said TS said about it can't be simplified. I guess I'm just not buying it. But that's just me.
What I don't understand is why does it have to be so secretive? We all want answers. Just tell what he/she knows, instead of these long confusing wordy explanations. I believe it could be much simpler. I know what said TS said about it can't be simplified. I guess I'm just not buying it. But that's just me.
I understand your position and I think you're justified in having it. It could be much simpler, easy proof could be offered. If MJ wanted everyone to know that TS was a legit informer, everyone would know. So why isn't that the case?
Looks like there's two possible Scenarios that exist. TS's posts are long and elaborate and the proof is complex and obscure because (a) TS is someone who is messing with people's minds in some sort of sick game, or (b) TS is a legit insider that is purposely making the proof complex and obscure.
That still leaves the answer of why for both Scenarios.
In Scenario (a), why would someone write out extremely long and complex updates and redirects for over a year just to mess with people? I know there are some sick individuals out there but this is... well, really involved. Plus it hasn't been debunked in all that time either. All that talk about truth running marathons and all. This duration is pretty marathonic.
With Scenario (b), why is TS purposely making the proof complex and obscure? It indicates that MJ doesn't want to let the secret out yet. MJ wants to make it confusing so that not everyone will believe. Which still leaves the question of why?
Again, I don't have the answers so thank you for taking this debate at face value, I'm enjoying it. Please continue rayvyn and everyone.
I think TS is a genuine informer, an insider who is in contact with Michael on a somewhat regular basis. I think it's possible that TS doesn't know exactly when Michael will BAM but has a definite inside track as to what's going on. I think that TS's role in the hoax is that of a guide - to steer us in the right direction when we start to veer off and to show us what we've been missing. TS also adds mystery - who is TS, how has TS figured out all the numbers, coincidences, etc. And TS can't make it too easy for us, I think one has to be willing to learn, willing to accept possibilities and willing to look beyond the media headlines to start accepting what TS has been telling us. TS's audience is small but if we can make sense of it, others can too. I sometimes have to read the TIAI updates more than once to better grasp what they mean but that in itself is another test for us - are we willing to try and figure it out or do we just see a super long post and don't bother with it? If a huge part of this hoax is expose how the media lies and to think for yourself, then TS's role in the hoax makes perfect sense.
What I don't understand is why does it have to be so secretive? We all want answers. Just tell what he/she knows, instead of these long confusing wordy explanations. I believe it could be much simpler. I know what said TS said about it can't be simplified. I guess I'm just not buying it. But that's just me.
I understand your position and I think you're justified in having it. It could be much simpler, easy proof could be offered. If MJ wanted everyone to know that TS was a legit informer, everyone would know. So why isn't that the case?
Looks like there's two possible Scenarios that exist. TS's posts are long and elaborate and the proof is complex and obscure because (a) TS is someone who is messing with people's minds in some sort of sick game, or (b) TS is a legit insider that is purposely making the proof complex and obscure.
That still leaves the answer of why for both Scenarios.
In Scenario (a), why would someone write out extremely long and complex updates and redirects for over a year just to mess with people? I know there are some sick individuals out there but this is... well, really involved. Plus it hasn't been debunked in all that time either. All that talk about truth running marathons and all. This duration is pretty marathonic.
With Scenario (b), why is TS purposely making the proof complex and obscure? It indicates that MJ doesn't want to let the secret out yet. MJ wants to make it confusing so that not everyone will believe. Which still leaves the question of why?
Again, I don't have the answers so thank you for taking this debate at face value, I'm enjoying it. Please continue rayvyn and everyone.
Oh, thank you. I think this is one of the most civilized debates I've seen here.
As far as scenario A, we have had people here that did play with the fans' minds. I know, why go through such complexities in order to fool people. I'm not saying TS is sick, but there are some sick minds out there.
B.
Why wouldn't Michael want everyone to believe? And who's to say that those he wants to believe, will understand. If it was simpler, the fans could feel secure (without any doubt) that he's still alive. If he doesn't want everyone to believe, making it simple wouldn't jeopardize that-- there are some people who wouldn't believe even if they had a clear photo of Michael with the date and time stamped on it.
In all fairness, I haven't read any of TS's posts in quite awhile.
I think TS is a genuine informer, an insider who is in contact with Michael on a somewhat regular basis. I think it's possible that TS doesn't know exactly when Michael will BAM but has a definite inside track as to what's going on. I think that TS's role in the hoax is that of a guide - to steer us in the right direction when we start to veer off and to show us what we've been missing. TS also adds mystery - who is TS, how has TS figured out all the numbers, coincidences, etc. And TS can't make it too easy for us, I think one has to be willing to learn, willing to accept possibilities and willing to look beyond the media headlines to start accepting what TS has been telling us. TS's audience is small but if we can make sense of it, others can too. I sometimes have to read the TIAI updates more than once to better grasp what they mean but that in itself is another test for us - are we willing to try and figure it out or do we just see a super long post and don't bother with it? If a huge part of this hoax is expose how the media lies and to think for yourself, then TS's role in the hoax makes perfect sense.
I understand, Andrea, but I have to disagree. A lot of it doesn't make sense. If I have to read TS's posts multiple times, then it's much too complex. I say simplify, so more people can understand. I believe people want to understand. Why not just make it simple?
What's the purpose of the mystery? And why the test? Testing seems a bit condescending if the person has the answers. People want to know.
I think the people here are smart enough to see pass headlines without them having to be tested.
I think TS is a genuine informer, an insider who is in contact with Michael on a somewhat regular basis. I think it's possible that TS doesn't know exactly when Michael will BAM but has a definite inside track as to what's going on. I think that TS's role in the hoax is that of a guide - to steer us in the right direction when we start to veer off and to show us what we've been missing. TS also adds mystery - who is TS, how has TS figured out all the numbers, coincidences, etc. And TS can't make it too easy for us, I think one has to be willing to learn, willing to accept possibilities and willing to look beyond the media headlines to start accepting what TS has been telling us. TS's audience is small but if we can make sense of it, others can too. I sometimes have to read the TIAI updates more than once to better grasp what they mean but that in itself is another test for us - are we willing to try and figure it out or do we just see a super long post and don't bother with it? If a huge part of this hoax is expose how the media lies and to think for yourself, then TS's role in the hoax makes perfect sense.
I understand, Andrea, but I have to disagree. A lot of it doesn't make sense. If I have to read TS's posts multiple times, then it's much too complex. I say simplify, so more people can understand. I believe people want to understand. Why not just make it simple?
What's the purpose of the mystery? And why the test? Testing seems a bit condescending if the person has the answers. People want to know.
I think the people here are smart enough to see pass headlines without them having to be tested.
I can understand where you're coming from. But this hoax has been planned intricately for years and so TS can't make it too easy because the nature of the hoax itself is so complex. It can't be simply summed up in a few paragraphs or wrapped up in a neat little package. I actually think TS has tried to simplify it as much as he/she can. It's easy to get lost in the wording and numbers of TS's posts but I think the main point is to show that there are too many coincidences for them to actually be coincidences and that this hoax has been planned down to the last detail. So if Michael took the time and effort to plan the hoax so perfectly and deliberately, the least we can do is try and understand where he's coming from. Those who follow TIAI and read TS's updates are luckier than most - just imagine how confused the non-believers will be when the BAM happens and they are scrambling to catch up. We live in a day and age where we want instant gratification - we want the answers right in front of us without taking the effort to find them ourselves. Which is why the mainstream media manages to get away with lying to us everyday - most people don't look beyond the headlines because they don't think to question anything themselves. And I think a huge reason for this hoax to is prove the media lies and for people to wake up. So TS is kinda proving Michael's point with the updates, in my opinion.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
Yes I think Scenario (a) is in a way the truth... except it's MJ playing with us, in an elaborate online ARG. And he won't come out and say it because it IS a game and he IS playing with us... but it's all for L.O.V.E., you know?
Like it's sort of fun to string us along and see who believes and who doesn't, give us just enough information to keep us hooked, just enough proof to make us wonder... just enough of this and that to captivate attention and inspire curiosity and debate. Not enough to come right out and give up the deception.... not yet. Maybe not ever?
Like a magic trick, you don't always figure out the secrets, you just enjoy the show.
It doesn't seem that the point is to disclose everything rather to focus attention and raise awareness on certain issues. We get some validation of the hoaxes existence to be sure, but mostly TII is about the reasons for the hoax and what sort of change it is designed to inspire.
For the record, it took a long time for me to concede that TS might be legit, and my mind is still open to the possibility that we are being fooled by someone else entirely, I just tend to think that's probably not the case.
But still.... why. Even if you go with all of that above we are still left with a why. Why would MJ bother at all. If not to say, "I'm alive and well and coming back or not", what's the purpose of TS's existance at all. Like Murray, why is there a need for him in the first place?
Perhaps, the purpose was to encourage our curiosity and analytical thinking. Perhaps, though this is wishful thinking maybe on my part, MJ is so charmed by those who would dare not believe the headlines and indeed look deeper into the events portrayed to us on 6/25/09, that TS was invented as a special bonus to those who dared to push the envelope all the way to the edge. So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
Yes I think Scenario (a) is in a way the truth... except it's MJ playing with us, in an elaborate online ARG. And he won't come out and say it because it IS a game and he IS playing with us... but it's all for L.O.V.E., you know?
Like it's sort of fun to string us along and see who believes and who doesn't, give us just enough information to keep us hooked, just enough proof to make us wonder... just enough of this and that to captivate attention and inspire curiosity and debate. Not enough to come right out and give up the deception.... not yet. Maybe not ever?
Like a magic trick, you don't always figure out the secrets, you just enjoy the show.
It doesn't seem that the point is to disclose everything rather to focus attention and raise awareness on certain issues. We get some validation of the hoaxes existence to be sure, but mostly TII is about the reasons for the hoax and what sort of change it is designed to inspire.
For the record, it took a long time for me to concede that TS might be legit, and my mind is still open to the possibility that we are being fooled by someone else entirely, I just tend to think that's probably not the case.
But still.... why. Even if you go with all of that above we are still left with a why. Why would MJ bother at all. If not to say, "I'm alive and well and coming back or not", what's the purpose of TS's existance at all. Like Murray, why is there a need for him in the first place?
Perhaps, the purpose was to encourage our curiosity and analytical thinking. Perhaps, though this is wishful thinking maybe on my part, MJ is so charmed by those who would dare not believe the headlines and indeed look deeper into the events portrayed to us on 6/25/09, that TS was invented as a special bonus to those who dared to push the envelope all the way to the edge. So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond.
All pure speculation on my part, of course.
At times do you feel as though stringing us along and teaching us is a bit mean and condescending? Maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
Yes I think Scenario (a) is in a way the truth... except it's MJ playing with us, in an elaborate online ARG. And he won't come out and say it because it IS a game and he IS playing with us... but it's all for L.O.V.E., you know?
Like it's sort of fun to string us along and see who believes and who doesn't, give us just enough information to keep us hooked, just enough proof to make us wonder... just enough of this and that to captivate attention and inspire curiosity and debate. Not enough to come right out and give up the deception.... not yet. Maybe not ever?
Like a magic trick, you don't always figure out the secrets, you just enjoy the show.
It doesn't seem that the point is to disclose everything rather to focus attention and raise awareness on certain issues. We get some validation of the hoaxes existence to be sure, but mostly TII is about the reasons for the hoax and what sort of change it is designed to inspire.
For the record, it took a long time for me to concede that TS might be legit, and my mind is still open to the possibility that we are being fooled by someone else entirely, I just tend to think that's probably not the case.
But still.... why. Even if you go with all of that above we are still left with a why. Why would MJ bother at all. If not to say, "I'm alive and well and coming back or not", what's the purpose of TS's existance at all. Like Murray, why is there a need for him in the first place?
Perhaps, the purpose was to encourage our curiosity and analytical thinking. Perhaps, though this is wishful thinking maybe on my part, MJ is so charmed by those who would dare not believe the headlines and indeed look deeper into the events portrayed to us on 6/25/09, that TS was invented as a special bonus to those who dared to push the envelope all the way to the edge. So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond.
All pure speculation on my part, of course.
Why - that's the question bec! All we can do is speculate and even if something feels right, we won't know for sure. Michael may choose to enlighten us or not, it is up to him. Even after all of this, I still don't feel he owes us any explanations - if he wishes to explain himself he will but if he chooses to BAM, I would think he would say why, otherwise what would the point of hoaxing his death be? What will the non-believers and the rest of us learn? I agree that TS may have been invented for the purpose of this hoax although there is probably just one person who writes the posts. The line of your post "So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond" makes so much sense. If Michael planned everything so minutely and deliberately, of course he would have a website ready to go as well, hence the debate as to when the original MJHD was actually started up.
<!-- s --><!-- s --> Ya just a bit! That's ok though, I wish it could be so easily explained. Then again, maybe not - where's the fun in that? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I understand what you're saying, but I think it could be made really simple. He could post:
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
Yes I think Scenario (a) is in a way the truth... except it's MJ playing with us, in an elaborate online ARG. And he won't come out and say it because it IS a game and he IS playing with us... but it's all for L.O.V.E., you know?
Like it's sort of fun to string us along and see who believes and who doesn't, give us just enough information to keep us hooked, just enough proof to make us wonder... just enough of this and that to captivate attention and inspire curiosity and debate. Not enough to come right out and give up the deception.... not yet. Maybe not ever?
Like a magic trick, you don't always figure out the secrets, you just enjoy the show.
It doesn't seem that the point is to disclose everything rather to focus attention and raise awareness on certain issues. We get some validation of the hoaxes existence to be sure, but mostly TII is about the reasons for the hoax and what sort of change it is designed to inspire.
For the record, it took a long time for me to concede that TS might be legit, and my mind is still open to the possibility that we are being fooled by someone else entirely, I just tend to think that's probably not the case.
But still.... why. Even if you go with all of that above we are still left with a why. Why would MJ bother at all. If not to say, "I'm alive and well and coming back or not", what's the purpose of TS's existance at all. Like Murray, why is there a need for him in the first place?
Perhaps, the purpose was to encourage our curiosity and analytical thinking. Perhaps, though this is wishful thinking maybe on my part, MJ is so charmed by those who would dare not believe the headlines and indeed look deeper into the events portrayed to us on 6/25/09, that TS was invented as a special bonus to those who dared to push the envelope all the way to the edge. So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond.
All pure speculation on my part, of course.
At times do you feel as though stringing us along and teaching us is a bit mean and condescending? Maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.
Well yes and no. I mean, we made a choice to be here and we make a choice what to believe or not believe. Maybe some of the other informers that turned out to be fake are actually MJ or working for MJ too. Perhaps that's part of the game, should you chose to play: spot the liar.
Any one of us can chose to walk away at any time and believe MJ is dead, no one obligated us to sign up for this "adventure". That being said I think it's designed as a game of sorts, an ARG aspect to the hoax, like the home version, lol, play along with MJ as he prepares to hoax the world.
So, I see how it could look condescending and manipulative, but it's like playing a prank on your friends. It depends on the intent behind the deception. Like, if you lie to a friend to get them to show up for a surprise party is it malicious? No, it's all for L.O.V.E.
I cant say if i believe in TS or not ...the main problem is the language and big posts no help, then come the numerology...nothing easy to me...
I always try to read your opinions after the TS post for know what happened...
Where is TS now? I don't see recent post.
Sometimes truth is complicated, sometimes truth is simple.
Sometimes truth is made complicated, sometimes truth is made simple.
For either way there are reasons.
Comments
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. There is no agreed upon standard by which the deciphering of the code can be judged. The only one who would know the standard would be the person who devised the code in the first place.
By the way, my original post did not underline "by the way I don't believe in numerology either." By you underlining it, it makes it look as though I emphasized it, which I did not.
Yes of course, I agree with that 100%. The weird part is that no one else has. At least I haven't seen anyone else even try to decipher the Dangerous code much less make it so it's a valid equation, with both sides matching: x=y, and then have it so it is interwoven throughout the hoax in so many complex manners.
There must be a reason why it is so complex and the proof is so difficult to grasp. There's a reason why it exists but also a reason why it's not widely accepted. Like it's supposed to be a little known secret still because if MJ wanted everyone to know there was a legit informer for us out there... then everyone would know.
Please stop underlining sentences and phrases in my post that I did not emphasize. By doing this, it gives off an impression that I didn't intend. Thanks in advance.
I understand what you're saying, but it's because the solving of the code seems to be so manipulated that I don't believe in it. You'd have to do a lot of manipulating in order to make things fit.
Also, do you have any examples of what you mean by "You'd have to do a lot of manipulating in order to make things fit." so we could dig into them?
No problem. I understand, and please continue to underline. <!-- s:-) -->:-)<!-- s:-) -->
I guess what I meant was that whenever I read TS's posts, much of it is was very confusing and seemed manipulated (his/her information). At times I felt as though I had to suspend reasoning. I'm sorry, I don't have any specific examples for you-- I've long stopped reading TS's posts because they were so confusing. Once I asked was he/she ever going to simplify it, because I felt as though some things could have been a lot more straight forward. I never got an answer. I may have asked twice, but I'm not sure on that.
And the subject brings me back to the conclusion that I draw from that:
But why? Just because that's the point of a hoax? That's it's a secret? But it's got to be hard orchestrating this gigantic adventure and not be able to share it with everyone for this amount of time... so... is it that MJ wants to spill the beans a little so he concocted this way (the personality TS) in which to let off a little steam (let a few in on the secret) while still retaining total control?
These are questions to which I haven't any answers, which is why I like to debate this.
For example, some of the redirects/posts that have been made/presented since I learned about them (June 2010) make more sense to me because I was able to read the redirect/post the day it was posted and then see later on, what he was talking about. i.e. The Orson Welles redirect.
I know this doesn't fit for everyone, as there may be some that were there from the beginning and still don't believe fully in TS, but it might help explain why there is such a division on him.
I understand your position and I think you're justified in having it. It could be much simpler, easy proof could be offered. If MJ wanted everyone to know that TS was a legit informer, everyone would know. So why isn't that the case?
Looks like there's two possible Scenarios that exist. TS's posts are long and elaborate and the proof is complex and obscure because (a) TS is someone who is messing with people's minds in some sort of sick game, or (b) TS is a legit insider that is purposely making the proof complex and obscure.
That still leaves the answer of why for both Scenarios.
In Scenario (a), why would someone write out extremely long and complex updates and redirects for over a year just to mess with people? I know there are some sick individuals out there but this is... well, really involved. Plus it hasn't been debunked in all that time either. All that talk about truth running marathons and all. This duration is pretty marathonic.
With Scenario (b), why is TS purposely making the proof complex and obscure? It indicates that MJ doesn't want to let the secret out yet. MJ wants to make it confusing so that not everyone will believe. Which still leaves the question of why?
Again, I don't have the answers so thank you for taking this debate at face value, I'm enjoying it. Please continue rayvyn and everyone.
Oh, thank you. I think this is one of the most civilized debates I've seen here.
As far as scenario A, we have had people here that did play with the fans' minds. I know, why go through such complexities in order to fool people. I'm not saying TS is sick, but there are some sick minds out there.
B.
Why wouldn't Michael want everyone to believe? And who's to say that those he wants to believe, will understand. If it was simpler, the fans could feel secure (without any doubt) that he's still alive. If he doesn't want everyone to believe, making it simple wouldn't jeopardize that-- there are some people who wouldn't believe even if they had a clear photo of Michael with the date and time stamped on it.
In all fairness, I haven't read any of TS's posts in quite awhile.
I understand, Andrea, but I have to disagree. A lot of it doesn't make sense. If I have to read TS's posts multiple times, then it's much too complex. I say simplify, so more people can understand. I believe people want to understand. Why not just make it simple?
What's the purpose of the mystery? And why the test? Testing seems a bit condescending if the person has the answers. People want to know.
I think the people here are smart enough to see pass headlines without them having to be tested.
I can understand where you're coming from. But this hoax has been planned intricately for years and so TS can't make it too easy because the nature of the hoax itself is so complex. It can't be simply summed up in a few paragraphs or wrapped up in a neat little package. I actually think TS has tried to simplify it as much as he/she can. It's easy to get lost in the wording and numbers of TS's posts but I think the main point is to show that there are too many coincidences for them to actually be coincidences and that this hoax has been planned down to the last detail. So if Michael took the time and effort to plan the hoax so perfectly and deliberately, the least we can do is try and understand where he's coming from. Those who follow TIAI and read TS's updates are luckier than most - just imagine how confused the non-believers will be when the BAM happens and they are scrambling to catch up. We live in a day and age where we want instant gratification - we want the answers right in front of us without taking the effort to find them ourselves. Which is why the mainstream media manages to get away with lying to us everyday - most people don't look beyond the headlines because they don't think to question anything themselves. And I think a huge reason for this hoax to is prove the media lies and for people to wake up. So TS is kinda proving Michael's point with the updates, in my opinion.
Michael hoaxed his death because_______
Michael plans to return _______
Michael is safe and I can't disclose the location.
I know these thing because __________ and proof that I'm the real thing is ________.
To be fair to TS, I'm going to read his/her latest post.
If only it could be that simple! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> But we would miss the point. Remember, Michael said in TII, "it's a great adventure". And he wouldn't be able to return "piece by piece" if we were just given the answers. If we were told straight out what/when/why/how, then we wouldn't be learning anything for ourselves - we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves and we would once again be accepting something at face value without looking beyond the print in front of our eyes.
Yes I think Scenario (a) is in a way the truth... except it's MJ playing with us, in an elaborate online ARG. And he won't come out and say it because it IS a game and he IS playing with us... but it's all for L.O.V.E., you know?
Like it's sort of fun to string us along and see who believes and who doesn't, give us just enough information to keep us hooked, just enough proof to make us wonder... just enough of this and that to captivate attention and inspire curiosity and debate. Not enough to come right out and give up the deception.... not yet. Maybe not ever?
Like a magic trick, you don't always figure out the secrets, you just enjoy the show.
It doesn't seem that the point is to disclose everything rather to focus attention and raise awareness on certain issues. We get some validation of the hoaxes existence to be sure, but mostly TII is about the reasons for the hoax and what sort of change it is designed to inspire.
For the record, it took a long time for me to concede that TS might be legit, and my mind is still open to the possibility that we are being fooled by someone else entirely, I just tend to think that's probably not the case.
But still.... why. Even if you go with all of that above we are still left with a why. Why would MJ bother at all. If not to say, "I'm alive and well and coming back or not", what's the purpose of TS's existance at all. Like Murray, why is there a need for him in the first place?
Perhaps, the purpose was to encourage our curiosity and analytical thinking. Perhaps, though this is wishful thinking maybe on my part, MJ is so charmed by those who would dare not believe the headlines and indeed look deeper into the events portrayed to us on 6/25/09, that TS was invented as a special bonus to those who dared to push the envelope all the way to the edge. So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond.
All pure speculation on my part, of course.
Maybe what I posted is over simplified. lol
At times do you feel as though stringing us along and teaching us is a bit mean and condescending? Maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective.
Why - that's the question bec! All we can do is speculate and even if something feels right, we won't know for sure. Michael may choose to enlighten us or not, it is up to him. Even after all of this, I still don't feel he owes us any explanations - if he wishes to explain himself he will but if he chooses to BAM, I would think he would say why, otherwise what would the point of hoaxing his death be? What will the non-believers and the rest of us learn? I agree that TS may have been invented for the purpose of this hoax although there is probably just one person who writes the posts. The line of your post "So MJHD is launched to put us all in one place, and TS is launched to fish from that pond" makes so much sense. If Michael planned everything so minutely and deliberately, of course he would have a website ready to go as well, hence the debate as to when the original MJHD was actually started up.
<!-- s
Well yes and no. I mean, we made a choice to be here and we make a choice what to believe or not believe. Maybe some of the other informers that turned out to be fake are actually MJ or working for MJ too. Perhaps that's part of the game, should you chose to play: spot the liar.
Any one of us can chose to walk away at any time and believe MJ is dead, no one obligated us to sign up for this "adventure". That being said I think it's designed as a game of sorts, an ARG aspect to the hoax, like the home version, lol, play along with MJ as he prepares to hoax the world.
So, I see how it could look condescending and manipulative, but it's like playing a prank on your friends. It depends on the intent behind the deception. Like, if you lie to a friend to get them to show up for a surprise party is it malicious? No, it's all for L.O.V.E.
I always try to read your opinions after the TS post for know what happened...
Where is TS now? I don't see recent post.
Sometimes truth is made complicated, sometimes truth is made simple.
For either way there are reasons.