Saint job is a Biblical character under an oppressive test by Satan with the permission of God and whose dignity and temple to save adversity is used by many religions as an example of sanctity, integrity of spirit and strength to the difficulties.
wikipedia
Job 1: 6-22
there is a big question that we must do when we are passing through testing in our life.
Does God expect of us when we tested?
1.) Decide how we are going to react to these problems
2.) Reaction with rejoicing
3.) Not to drop the head by shame or dismay under testing
I will try to put my opinion too regarding all this religious/Bible redirects, as well as I can, from my point of perceiving, and maybe the ones who find no reason ro feel bad about Bible would understand how we, the oters, think. In a way.
I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.
Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.
Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.
I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.
I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.
As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.
i am probably gonna wish i stayed out of this but here goes.
i don't know what kind of mess your sister is in but god is not into bondage. whatever you do don't abandon her.
there are as you say many here who are not religious but they still read.
the key is not letting someone else decide for you what it means. imo this is what has happened with your sister .
since you do not believe perhaps some of those who do will take up the burdon to pray for your sisters and yourself and the situation.
I will try to put my opinion too regarding all this religious/Bible redirects, as well as I can, from my point of perceiving, and maybe the ones who find no reason ro feel bad about Bible would understand how we, the oters, think. In a way.
I am not a religious person, I've said that. Probably it depends on what everyone experienced, but some people (including myself, Tarja-who is my sister, and even some members of my family) have experienced some kind of religious brainwashing contact that led me/us to have a rejecting feeling towards religious feeding. To make a long story short, my other sister (she's older living with her fiancee)- her fiancee is very very obsessed with religion. He said that for him on the 1st place comes God, then his family.He believes in God in a psychotic way,too much and what's too much, exagerrated, is harmful. For anybody.He kinda changed my older sister's behaviour completely: she was never very religious, almost at all, like me, like Tarja, but since they are together slowly slowly he fed her this thing with religion and slowly she started to read the Bible, read a book of prayers every night, read books about some priests' lives and their convictions, step by step he brainwashed her. The guy doesn't even hold her hand when there is some religious day, nor kiss nor anything, he doesn't even turn on the computer on Sundays because it's a sin in his concept and God's rules probably. You know what I mean? That's why I am so revolted sometimes, because unlike cases when people let themselves think "what harm could the Bible do to me?", I don't react like that. Because I won't swallow what I do not want to and what doesn't connect with my sense.That's the reason why I connect religion with a bad intention.Because I consider it like a weapon.The constant feeding is what makes me see it like pushing it on me.
Second, I feel forced to read it because I want to know what happens with Michael too, like all of us do, I come here and read because deep inside I search for answers I never had. So on some kind of psychological level I feel "forced" to take the Bible into consideration just because I want to understand this situation....You know? And I want to get a non-religious point of view, not a quote from the Bible. Because automatically it's like you tie religion with Michael like they are one and for me the Bible is some kind of fiction, and in my head the hoax is immediately connected to somethhing not tangible, therefore not real and therefore like God-I am not sure wether he exists or not.
Then, there are many people who are not religious here, so it feels like discriminating; we don't have the right to receive non-religious and normal answers?it seems that if you are not religious and do not believe in the Bible's teachings you will never get the message right.Indeed, there are not only religious redirects, but most of them, more than a half, are from the Bible.
I respect Michael's faith in God and I have abslutely nothing to say against his beliefs, he is free as I am, but the fact that he believes in God doesn't mean i have to believe too, and if the religion is an important point in the hoax then the message will get only to religious people. No one will change my beliefs.And it feels like the hoax is only for who has a strong belief in God.... If I do not, doesn't mean I don't suport Michael with all my heart in everything he does.... I support him completely and I wish with all my heart to see him achieving his vision.But I feel rejected because I cannot have faith in something I never had faith in.
I tried to express the best I can the reason why I feel like this.
As you all, I need to have a lot of my questions answered, and as all of you, I come here and try to find them. But then when I read Bible quotes most of the time, I feel forced to believe and react in consequence. Why, if Michael respects people who don't believe in any religion, don't get normal messages? If Michael respects that and if TS is his messenger then I don't think he would ever force religion on anybody.He never had.Why not normal messages, quotes from books, quotes from writers, and so on?That won't offend the religious people. The message should be available to everybody, and not in a religious way.This way it means forcing.
i am probably gonna wish i stayed out of this but here goes.
i don't know what kind of mess your sister is in but god is not into bondage. whatever you do don't abandon her.
there are as you say many here who are not religious but they still read.
the key is not letting someone else decide for you what it means. imo this is what has happened with your sister .
since you do not believe perhaps some of those who do will take up the burdon to pray for your sisters and yourself and the situation.
feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
Basically the message is... keep the faith no matter what.
Ohh thank you so much for summarizing it. I'm a Muslim and my native language is not English. So it makes it double harder for me to understand these Bible passages TS redirects to. So if this one is about Keeping the Faith, probably TS wanted to point at this one because Randy was on and he seemed so pissed off about the album. The things he wrote on Twitter, especially when he wrote "May him rest in peace" for 4 times, my heart hurt. Whenever Randy comes to Twitter, he makes me question about the hoax. I hope he doesn't write that there's no hoax and MJ was really gone. Because that is when I will start losing my hope. But TS warned us to keep the faith whatever happens. So let's keep the faith and keep on believing in Michael and his plan. God bless you all.
feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
No, I never try to make anyone think differently from what they wish. It's the case with her too. She likes it, I suppose. Just that thinking completely different than her, I find it harmful. My mother believes in God but not in an obsessive way. And it's somehow normal...But when you base your life on God's rules and teaching it's when I see it harmful.
All in all , the reason why I don't understand why the message is not for all of us to understand and feel closure.
Honestly saying, I feel discrimination.All of us have the right to feel closure with the message if it's important.
feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
No, I never try to make anyone think differently from what they wish. It's the case with her too. She likes it, I suppose. Just that thinking completely different than her, I find it harmful. My mother believes in God but not in an obsessive way. And it's somehow normal...But when you base your life on God's rules and teaching it's when I see it harmful.
All in all , the reason why I don't understand why the message is not for all of us to understand and feel closure.
Honestly saying, I feel discrimination.All of us have the right to feel closure with the message if it's important.
can i ask you did you read ts post? if so what did you take away from it . if it was a story that wasn't from the bible what would you take away from it?
As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
Emeraldcity, I agree on the connection between Job's boils and MJ's skin condition.
My thoughts: there are only two places in the Bible that the phrase 'Sons of God' are used, this place in Job 1:6 and also twice in Genesis 6:1-8. Some Bible scholars have thought they were sons of Seth, but I disagree, I believe they were aliens very similar to humans but from outside of earth. They were not angels because the Bible consistently uses other terminology for angelic beings. (I have more controversial beliefs about these beings which I've mentioned elsewhere.)
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Very interesting about your analysis about the Sons of God, i agree with you, and i must say that these "aliens" are actually fallen angels. The ones that were cast out with satan when he rebelled. I believe this passage is redirected because just like job, michaels faith was tested, but he never stopped loving, and he never stopped believing in God. After it was all over job was blessed in folds, whatever was taken was given back, and more. I think michael will be blessed the same way for being faithful, and for never giving up on love.
I feel like everything has drifted away from Michael and it all became a religious thing, with almost daily redirects to the Bible. And because people want to get to the bottom of it all, they read it today, read it tomorrow and they'll end up without even noticing thet they've read the whole Bible. people start to develop the situation exposed in these quotes and almost don't notice how far away from the subject they go. The subject is MICHAEL and the main important thing. Not the Bible, nor Satan nor God. And the answer in the end is what? Nothing. Just the analysis of another Bible quote.
It's everyone's decision if they want to read the Bible or not and forcing people into it won't lead to anything. It all became all about religion and nothing about Michael. I don't say the Bible is good or bad, I just don't read either believe in it. Is that if those who don't read or believe the Bible have no rights to have normal answers? I don't find any answer in those quotes and either I find any connections.
The Bible references are DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing. Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday. The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories. If so, it would not transcend time. It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth. But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today. No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.
If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it. His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels. What is being done here is one of them. Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT??? Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy. He has pointed to it all along. So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now. And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!! What does one think LOVE is? To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE. Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance. When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions. This is spoken of throughout the bible.
I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone. Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people. Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual. He is indeed a Christian. People confuse Christianity with religion. Religion is situational, Christianity is relational. They should never be confused one with the other. Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.
So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN. Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead? Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him. I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come. The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.
It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains. It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free. You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right?? What harm is taking them done to you either way. Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!
Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything. When in doubt ignore! It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly. There is Good, who is Good? There is evil, who is evil? Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done. Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years??? Let those who hath ears hear!
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!! And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
this is all i see that maybe you misunderstood . the people who came to him were basically telling him of all that was happening to his stuff. so noone lied. other than that i think you see pretty much what it is. now how does it relate to michael for you?
Why would it change? The Bible quoted by TS or Michael is still the same... the meaning does not change, the words are still the same. How can the intention be different? TS is only re-directing without analyzing or telling people what to think. When I read these verses I've been touched by their content, by the message and it is not TS who has written it. TS is just a messenger.
No, you don't understand me. First, you didn't underline the sentence well, so this means to read between the lines.- which is not good. The whole sentence would have been if it was Michael himself redirecting to Bible quotes I would peacefully read them[/b] because I know he is a good man and his intentions are not bad or to develop a mind control - from this, I explain it again. If it were Michael showing us quotes from the Bible I wouldn't think they might be probably with bad intention. Why? Because I can look into Michael's eyes, I can see it in his eyes because he is a tangible person. It's totally another thing if we regard TS. I can't look into his eyes. The eyes are the window to your soul and this can't be ingnored and considered unimportant. Even one of FBI's techinques to spot a liar is the eye to eye alaysis.
If it were Michael giving these quotes from the Bible I wouldn't regard the possibility of a mindcontrol for objective reasons- he never did that no matter his religious beliefs. This doesn't happen with TS in my case. It's a feeling that I have since very long. Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind. This is what I don't like about this. I don't know TS, never seen his face, never looked into his eyes so I have the right too REGARD the possibility he might not have actually only good intentions with all this. It is my right to my opinion. I hope now you got what I wanted to say with all this.
I know that the path through hell is paved with good intentions
I am not reading between the lines it is very clear. I understand that you rely on the messenger (Michael) and not on the message (the Bible). Or if you prefer, the Bible quoted by Michael is ok because you 'know' Michael but not from TS because you don't know him. Am I right?
Haven't you heard about mindcontrol through religious procedures? i did and also witnessed in my life and this can go far away if you don't have a strong mind.
That is why it is absolutely necessary to think for ourselves and it implies that you put your interest/focus on the message and its meaning and not on the messenger. If we rely blindly on people because they have managed to have our (blind?) trust we are more likely to be mind-controlled. In general those who mindcontrol people in religious areas interpret the scriptures for their benefit and in general people believe them without questionning because of their so called authority and because they actually don't study themselves the scriptures. Here TS is not explaining the scriptures we, have to do it ourselves. So it is not mind control.
Tarja I really don't understand your need to see in TS' eyes to accept the Bible being quoted or not. As I have said what will it change to the message? The Bible is like it is, Michael or TS quoting will not change that.
If you're not religious maybe just interpret it in regards to the hoax. And here it means keep the faith no matter what is happening with all the confusion surrounding it.
As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
this is all i see that maybe you misunderstood . the people who came to him were basically telling him of all that was happening to his stuff. so noone lied. other than that i think you see pretty much what it is. now how does it relate to michael for you?
Well, I think that TS answered to me when I said the other day that if God exists and manages the life then why did Michael have to pass through such suffering.I think it was related to that. To what happened to him and all the hell he's been through.
But then again, who knows if it was God's will? It's a Bible story ..... That's why for me it's hard to get at the bottom of these quotes.
Sarahli wrote:
I really don't understand your need to see in TS' eyes to accept the Bible being quoted or not. As I have said what will it change to the message? The Bible is like it is, Michael or TS quoting will not change that.
It happens to me too. For me the messenger is as important as the message. Because, if we take these Bible quotes, and let's supposedly say that the person who sends them has another purpose (let's say to cover a crime) it is done on a holy base, and apparently would mean no harm.
So yes, for me too, the messenger is as important as the message. Not only in this case, I say in many cases, regardless TS or anyone.I just wanted to address the idea of the message and the messenger.
I do not feel forced to read TS's bible quotes as I know that nobody can force me to do anything. I do however feel that I would be maybe 'missing out' if I didn't read them, but most of the time, these bible quotes seem not to be actual information, but encouragement. I still believe in the hoax and bible quotes won't make me believe more than I do.
I think it's good that these quotes give encouragement to religious people.
If Michael himself is behind these redirects then it doesn't change anything for me. I will still carry on reading them, I am strong enough not to change my whole idea about religion system because of this. The fact is, there are many things I don't agree with that appear in the bible and I will never use it as a source of information or encouragement. Others disagree and that's fine. Makes no difference to me if it's TS, Michael Jackson or the pope, I won't be changing my mind about this.
This is not to say I think there is 'nothing' out there. I think there are things that we don't know about the afterlife etc. But I won't conform to any religion.
I hope not to have offended anyone as these are my honest thoughts and I have no problem with people who are religious. It's a free world as far as I'm concerned.
The Bible references are DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing. Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday. The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories. If so, it would not transcend time. It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth. But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today. No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.
If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it. His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels. What is being done here is one of them. Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT??? Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy. He has pointed to it all along. So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now. And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!! What does one think LOVE is? To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE. Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance. When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions. This is spoken of throughout the bible.
I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone. Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people. Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual. He is indeed a Christian. People confuse Christianity with religion. Religion is situational, Christianity is relational. They should never be confused one with the other. Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.
So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN. Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead? Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him. I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come. The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.
It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains. It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free. You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right?? What harm is taking them done to you either way. Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!
Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything. When in doubt ignore! It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly. There is Good, who is Good? There is evil, who is evil? Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done. Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years??? Let those who hath ears hear!
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!! And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
Thank you navibl, your posts are very insightful and enlightening. I do believe in God, though I am not involved in an organized religion, I do consider myself "spiritual". I am glad that you are here to help with the bible interpretations as I haven't really read it before this adventure began. I agree with what you have written here wholeheartedly and thank you again for taking the time to try and show, those of us who have not been exposed to the the bible's content or are non-believers, a relevant meaning for these passages.
Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.
I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan? Makes no sense.
There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!! And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> nah!
People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.
I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.
Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.
Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
Sorry, I'm going to disagree with you on this statement as well! If you believe in God and Satan as you have depicted, then surely Satan would be seeking out and trying to win over those that are most hateful and threatening to him, i.e. those that have faith in God. He's already got the 'unbelievers' on his side!
I personally don't necessarily believe what I have just written to be true. It just seems if you're going to believe in a real evil presence (i.e. Satan) who wants to steer people away from God, this is a more logical way of looking at his methods.
Talking about what I said today: mindcontrol through religious procedures. It's the proof that I was right. It is the typical way of taking the things into people if they are aware their theories don't catch as many people as they want. I simply don't agree with the brainwashing the Bible still does on people and how people still guide themselves after it. And because TS in almost all his redirects gives quotes from the Bible it implies: read the Bible or stick out of this.
And I don't think Michael wants everyone to be numbed by the Bible and either I think he discriminates those who don't believe in it. Messages should be sent for everyone not just for a part of the comunity. Michael's message is unity and not discrimination. He never showed any sign of leading people into believing in the Bible or any other religious book, either he discredited those with different beliefs.
Such way of believing and such way of regarding the God fact takes away half of people's own personality. they are not able to think for themselves because God already said what is good and what is bad, what they should or shouldn't do. people become numb. This is the exact word in my opinion: numb
I want to understand everything regarding this hoax and I do not accept the theory: read the Bible or just stick out of it. It is not what Michael stands for, it is not in his nature. And the bad feeling that TS gives me because of this increases since 5-6 months ago
I know lots of you here are uncomfortable with all the Bible stuff, but you could always just skim it quickly. I mean, I don't go deep into legal, celebrity or medical stuff because it's hard for me, not having much background in it. I'm just thankful for those here who really understand that stuff. I really appreciate everyone's strong areas of knowledge in this forum. Michael's hoax has got something for everyone I feel. So I say just relax and enjoy the ride. Michael's not trying to convert anybody. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> This is his adventure and we're just trying to play his game. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I made a mistake in my earier post, that "Sons of God" were just in those 3 places, but it is also in Job 38:7. And they are not angels.
Job 38:1-11
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
_Anna_
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
I believe you are taking the word blame as in negative which it is not. Rather it should be that he acknowledged God as the source of his troubles and gave God respect and praise that He knows best for the full picture. 2:10
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
When all these bad things befall Job, these 4 so-called friends come to try to comfort him, but they basically are trying to pin the blame on Job's sins that he might not be aware of, even if it is simply righteous attitude, saying that God wouldn't do bad things to a good person. God jumps into the conversation several times always talking about how Job knows nothing about what's going on in the vastness of the creation, the intricasies of the balance of nature, nor the grand plan of God for the ages. Nobody can tell God what He can or cannot do, nobody. God always takes full responsibility for what happened with Job, never once blaming Satan.
Then Job says 42:1
1Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
At the end all Job's family came to him in 42:11
comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him
We are all safe in God's hands, and He will do what He chooses, whether we know it, or resist it or not. On that basis, I'm happy just to go with the program.
Comments
wikipedia
Job 1: 6-22
there is a big question that we must do when we are passing through testing in our life.
Does God expect of us when we tested?
1.) Decide how we are going to react to these problems
2.) Reaction with rejoicing
3.) Not to drop the head by shame or dismay under testing
when we act as expected we receive blessings.
i am probably gonna wish i stayed out of this but here goes.
i don't know what kind of mess your sister is in but god is not into bondage. whatever you do don't abandon her.
there are as you say many here who are not religious but they still read.
the key is not letting someone else decide for you what it means. imo this is what has happened with your sister .
since you do not believe perhaps some of those who do will take up the burdon to pray for your sisters and yourself and the situation.
feel like i need to add something. just in case the situation with your sister is not exactly as you percieve it to be and your sister has really found something special that she willingly wants for her life and it is good then it is not yours to decide for her either.
Ohh thank you so much for summarizing it. I'm a Muslim and my native language is not English. So it makes it double harder for me to understand these Bible passages TS redirects to. So if this one is about Keeping the Faith, probably TS wanted to point at this one because Randy was on and he seemed so pissed off about the album. The things he wrote on Twitter, especially when he wrote "May him rest in peace" for 4 times, my heart hurt. Whenever Randy comes to Twitter, he makes me question about the hoax. I hope he doesn't write that there's no hoax and MJ was really gone. Because that is when I will start losing my hope. But TS warned us to keep the faith whatever happens. So let's keep the faith and keep on believing in Michael and his plan. God bless you all.
All in all , the reason why I don't understand why the message is not for all of us to understand and feel closure.
Honestly saying, I feel discrimination.All of us have the right to feel closure with the message if it's important.
More than harmful is egoistic imo. By putting all the weight in God ones responsability is less.
can i ask you did you read ts post? if so what did you take away from it . if it was a story that wasn't from the bible what would you take away from it?
mmmm.....
As far as I understood this guy, Job, was put to a test to see if he has faith in God, even if he was put through suffering. Then I understood that some people came to him telling him a version of something that happened, and every version was different. If i understood it wrong, it's hard for me with the old English.
So yeah, that's what I understood mainly. That all the people lied. And that Job's faith was put to test. And that in the end he didn't blame God for his sufferings.
Very interesting about your analysis about the Sons of God, i agree with you, and i must say that these "aliens" are actually fallen angels. The ones that were cast out with satan when he rebelled. I believe this passage is redirected because just like job, michaels faith was tested, but he never stopped loving, and he never stopped believing in God. After it was all over job was blessed in folds, whatever was taken was given back, and more. I think michael will be blessed the same way for being faithful, and for never giving up on love.
The Bible references are DIRECTLY relating to Michael Joe Jackson!! And what he has and is doing. Anyone who truly has studied and understands him, knows that he studies his bible everyday. The bible is not a book of impressive fairytale stories. If so, it would not transcend time. It is the oldest history book on the face of the earth. But the history it conveys is full of prophesy for today. No I am NOT orthodox in any of my thinking; I simply take the bible for face value, period. Eveyone like to put lables on things.
If you listen to Michael and understand the messages in ALL his music, you will understand that he believes in the end of the age as we know it. His having left the public eye has reason on so many levels. What is being done here is one of them. Michael said God gave him the music RIGHT??? Well if you can understand the messages in his lyrics you will see that he believes in bible prophesy. He has pointed to it all along. So the bible is in fact very relevant in what is talking place in Michael’s life right now. And is the message that he is trying his best to turn Mans attention to.
No Michael never stood in a church and preached, but he DID teach by the way he lives his life!!! What does one think LOVE is? To truly understand the meaning of love and to exercise LOVE you have to understand WHO IS LOVE. Love is not an action word, it a noun, a state of exsistance. When you live in LOVE you produce the fruit of LOVE by your actions. This is spoken of throughout the bible.
I really dislike the word Hoax because it represents trying to fool someone. Michael did none of this for purposes of fooling people. Michael did this to save his life and hopefully millions along with him. However Michael is not religious he is in fact VERY spiritual. He is indeed a Christian. People confuse Christianity with religion. Religion is situational, Christianity is relational. They should never be confused one with the other. Christianity is having a direct relationship with the creator of the universe, to be like Christ just as Michael said he wanted to be, something that all religions do not provide.
So when directing to the bible we are in direct line with Michael’s heart and his purpose and what he is doing to expose the enemy SATAN. Who do you suppose wanted Michael dead? Not just someone who was bored and had nothing to do, but SATAN because Michael refused to give in to him. I really hate to say this but ones lack of belief does not change what was , is and is to come. The only problem with unbelief, is that one is caught totally unaware of what is taking place in front their eyes.
It is like standing on a train track staring dead ahead at a train coming at you and saying I don’t believe in trains. It doesn’t change the fact that in a matter of seconds you will be wiped out by the thing!! So for unbelievers I would say, think of it as someone offering you the winning numbers to the lottery for free. You can’t be sure they are the right numbers but wouldn’t you rather take them with the chance they are wrong than not take them and they be right?? What harm is taking them done to you either way. Eternal life with our loving heavenly father and all that he has to give us, mainly his LOVE seems like a very good prize to me!!
Unfortunately man has taken God’s direct word. “the bible” and has given it so many interpretations no one knows what in fact to believe anymore. So some chose not to believe anything. When in doubt ignore! It is all very plain and laid out for us very directly. There is Good, who is Good? There is evil, who is evil? Those who believe in nothing by default are drawn into evil because in the absence of no thought, Satan has a place to play, because he does roam the earth seeking whom he may devour regardless of belief in him or not.
What do you suppose Michael meant when he said we have four years to get it right or else it is irreversible the damage we have done. Do you really think that Michael was saying we can correct the damage that has been done to the planet over decades in four years??? Let those who hath ears hear!
IT REALLY IS ALL FOR LOVE!!!! And I love each and every one of you regardless of what you believe!! We are all God’s children regardless of belief in him or not!!
this is all i see that maybe you misunderstood . the people who came to him were basically telling him of all that was happening to his stuff. so noone lied. other than that i think you see pretty much what it is. now how does it relate to michael for you?
I am not reading between the lines it is very clear. I understand that you rely on the messenger (Michael) and not on the message (the Bible). Or if you prefer, the Bible quoted by Michael is ok because you 'know' Michael but not from TS because you don't know him. Am I right?
That is why it is absolutely necessary to think for ourselves and it implies that you put your interest/focus on the message and its meaning and not on the messenger. If we rely blindly on people because they have managed to have our (blind?) trust we are more likely to be mind-controlled. In general those who mindcontrol people in religious areas interpret the scriptures for their benefit and in general people believe them without questionning because of their so called authority and because they actually don't study themselves the scriptures. Here TS is not explaining the scriptures we, have to do it ourselves. So it is not mind control.
Tarja I really don't understand your need to see in TS' eyes to accept the Bible being quoted or not. As I have said what will it change to the message? The Bible is like it is, Michael or TS quoting will not change that.
If you're not religious maybe just interpret it in regards to the hoax. And here it means keep the faith no matter what is happening with all the confusion surrounding it.
But then again, who knows if it was God's will? It's a Bible story ..... That's why for me it's hard to get at the bottom of these quotes.
So yes, for me too, the messenger is as important as the message. Not only in this case, I say in many cases, regardless TS or anyone.I just wanted to address the idea of the message and the messenger.
I do not feel forced to read TS's bible quotes as I know that nobody can force me to do anything. I do however feel that I would be maybe 'missing out' if I didn't read them, but most of the time, these bible quotes seem not to be actual information, but encouragement. I still believe in the hoax and bible quotes won't make me believe more than I do.
I think it's good that these quotes give encouragement to religious people.
If Michael himself is behind these redirects then it doesn't change anything for me. I will still carry on reading them, I am strong enough not to change my whole idea about religion system because of this. The fact is, there are many things I don't agree with that appear in the bible and I will never use it as a source of information or encouragement. Others disagree and that's fine. Makes no difference to me if it's TS, Michael Jackson or the pope, I won't be changing my mind about this.
This is not to say I think there is 'nothing' out there. I think there are things that we don't know about the afterlife etc. But I won't conform to any religion.
I hope not to have offended anyone as these are my honest thoughts and I have no problem with people who are religious. It's a free world as far as I'm concerned.
Edited because I had a blonde moment lol.
You are totally right.
A lot of people don't believe in either (I for one).
I strongly disagree with your quote above. I do not believe and I am not drawn into evil. I believe in human actions and care.
I do not believe in any of them. God/Satan goes hand in hand. "Good" vs "evil".
If I don´t believe in God how can I possible believe in Satan? Makes no sense.
There is no such thing as Satan, is people with mental problems who creates hell on earth. Rewiring is essential, but from the core.
By reading your post, it looks to me that LOVE would mean to convert? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> nah!
People should love each other for the sake of it, not to win "heaven", not to be "safe" from evil or the end of the world. That´s pure conditioning and black mailing.
I love you because I chose to do so, not because a book or faith or a concept tells me to do so. That´s slavery.
When you believe in nothing what do you mean? Nothing as in God? I believe in evolution and nature. I am a kind person who tries my very best to help people. Am I drawn into Evil? I'm finding it difficult to understand maybe because of the language. If you could explain I would be very grateful. Thanks.
Sorry, I'm going to disagree with you on this statement as well! If you believe in God and Satan as you have depicted, then surely Satan would be seeking out and trying to win over those that are most hateful and threatening to him, i.e. those that have faith in God. He's already got the 'unbelievers' on his side!
I personally don't necessarily believe what I have just written to be true. It just seems if you're going to believe in a real evil presence (i.e. Satan) who wants to steer people away from God, this is a more logical way of looking at his methods.
And I don't think Michael wants everyone to be numbed by the Bible and either I think he discriminates those who don't believe in it. Messages should be sent for everyone not just for a part of the comunity. Michael's message is unity and not discrimination. He never showed any sign of leading people into believing in the Bible or any other religious book, either he discredited those with different beliefs.
Such way of believing and such way of regarding the God fact takes away half of people's own personality. they are not able to think for themselves because God already said what is good and what is bad, what they should or shouldn't do. people become numb. This is the exact word in my opinion: numb
I want to understand everything regarding this hoax and I do not accept the theory: read the Bible or just stick out of it. It is not what Michael stands for, it is not in his nature. And the bad feeling that TS gives me because of this increases since 5-6 months ago
I know lots of you here are uncomfortable with all the Bible stuff, but you could always just skim it quickly. I mean, I don't go deep into legal, celebrity or medical stuff because it's hard for me, not having much background in it. I'm just thankful for those here who really understand that stuff. I really appreciate everyone's strong areas of knowledge in this forum. Michael's hoax has got something for everyone I feel. So I say just relax and enjoy the ride. Michael's not trying to convert anybody. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s
I made a mistake in my earier post, that "Sons of God" were just in those 3 places, but it is also in Job 38:7. And they are not angels.
I believe you are taking the word blame as in negative which it is not. Rather it should be that he acknowledged God as the source of his troubles and gave God respect and praise that He knows best for the full picture. 2:10 When all these bad things befall Job, these 4 so-called friends come to try to comfort him, but they basically are trying to pin the blame on Job's sins that he might not be aware of, even if it is simply righteous attitude, saying that God wouldn't do bad things to a good person. God jumps into the conversation several times always talking about how Job knows nothing about what's going on in the vastness of the creation, the intricasies of the balance of nature, nor the grand plan of God for the ages. Nobody can tell God what He can or cannot do, nobody. God always takes full responsibility for what happened with Job, never once blaming Satan.
Then Job says 42:1
1Then Job answered the LORD, and said, At the end all Job's family came to him in 42:11 We are all safe in God's hands, and He will do what He chooses, whether we know it, or resist it or not. On that basis, I'm happy just to go with the program.