<br />If you believe dependency = addict or dependency = non addict, I guess wasn't my point. I personally believe that someone having a dependency is an addict. We are not referring to an individual with a disease or illness who has the inability to produce a vital hormone or enzyme such as insulin. My point was simply re: jacarandas' comment is that I don't believe MJ was an addict or had a dependency, at least not at the time of this letter and not with the substance mentioned. Did he try to perpetuate such a scenario of a doctor shopping addict for the purpose of the hoax? IMO, I believe yes.<br /><br />This letter is not legitimate.<br /><br />Sidenote: Sorry in advance for being controversial, but I'll add, that now after some research and forming an opinion on Pepsi accident, (whether it be right or wrong, just my opinion, not saying this is what ppl should believe) I even doubt the whole 'addicted to pain killer' story that I once believed. I used to believe propofol / Demerol / morphene addiction stories close to 09 as false and pain killer addiction story circa 95 - 05 possibly true. Since exploring ideas about Pepsi burn, I have changed my opinion. I believe it all to be painting scenario for hoax. MJ is a health freak! But again jmo. :icon_e_wink:<br />
<br /><br />I 100% agree with you, I am a chocolate addict because I drink cocoa milk everyday, LOL , I think Michael's message with his song "Morphine" is very clear:<br /><br />Relax<br />This won't hurt you<br />Before I put it in<br />Close your eyes and count to ten<br />Don't cry<br />I won't convert you<br />There's no need to dismay<br />Close your eyes and drift away <br /><br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol <br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol<br /><br />He's tried<br />Hard to convince her<br />To be over what he had<br />Today he wants it twice as bad<br />Don't cry<br />I won't resent you<br />Yesterday you had his trust<br />Today he's taking twice as mu<br /><br />Doctors are trying their patients to get hooked to take drugs by working hand by hand with chemical labs and obtain huge benefits with it and I think this is one of the biggest desires for Michael to expose and eradicate it once and for all, that's why I think this letter isn't legit and is made by him for a shout out hoaxy purpose it's easy to see that since the date and day of the week used (July 21/sunday) speak volumes.<br />
<br /><br /><br />That song always reminded me of a seductive suicide note...that "last cry" for help sort of thing to draw attention that something is wrong. Its always been unsettling.<br /><br /><br />Side note: Does anyone know what day of the week that was that that Murray made his "video recording" supposedly of Michael "under the influence"...half sleep or awake or whatever? :icon_e_confused:
humm dependency on a controlled substance.<br /><br />anybody else see a parallel with media ?
<br /><br /><br />That is an interesting parallel! What we hear from the media is controlled by "TPTB" and most of it is garbage. People depend on the news to know what's going on but are being fed that garbage. Some have been able to break from this dependency after realizing it's poison for the mind.
I've always thought the drug stories were all bullshit, but on the other hand I wonder how any person can cope with all the shit MJ had to deal with for so long, without becoming addicted to anything that might make you forget everything, even if it's only for a little while. Many others wouldn't even have made it through alive. So maybe there were problems, I would not be very surprised.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />If you believe dependency = addict or dependency = non addict, I guess wasn't my point. I personally believe that someone having a dependency is an addict. We are not referring to an individual with a disease or illness who has the inability to produce a vital hormone or enzyme such as insulin. My point was simply re: jacarandas' comment is that I don't believe MJ was an addict or had a dependency, at least not at the time of this letter and not with the substance mentioned. Did he try to perpetuate such a scenario of a doctor shopping addict for the purpose of the hoax? IMO, I believe yes.<br /><br />This letter is not legitimate.<br /><br />Sidenote: Sorry in advance for being controversial, but I'll add, that now after some research and forming an opinion on Pepsi accident, (whether it be right or wrong, just my opinion, not saying this is what ppl should believe) I even doubt the whole 'addicted to pain killer' story that I once believed. I used to believe propofol / Demerol / morphene addiction stories close to 09 as false and pain killer addiction story circa 95 - 05 possibly true. Since exploring ideas about Pepsi burn, I have changed my opinion. I believe it all to be painting scenario for hoax. MJ is a health freak! But again jmo. :icon_e_wink:<br />
<br /><br />I 100% agree with you, I am a chocolate addict because I drink cocoa milk everyday, LOL , I think Michael's message with his song "Morphine" is very clear:<br /><br />Relax<br />This won't hurt you<br />Before I put it in<br />Close your eyes and count to ten<br />Don't cry<br />I won't convert you<br />There's no need to dismay<br />Close your eyes and drift away <br /><br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol <br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol<br /><br />He's tried<br />Hard to convince her<br />To be over what he had<br />Today he wants it twice as bad<br />Don't cry<br />I won't resent you<br />Yesterday you had his trust<br />Today he's taking twice as mu<br /><br />Doctors are trying their patients to get hooked to take drugs by working hand by hand with chemical labs and obtain huge benefits with it and I think this is one of the biggest desires for Michael to expose and eradicate it once and for all, that's why I think this letter isn't legit and is made by him for a shout out hoaxy purpose it's easy to see that since the date and day of the week used (July 21/sunday) speak volumes.<br />
<br /><br /><br />That song always reminded me of a seductive suicide note...that "last cry" for help sort of thing to draw attention that something is wrong. Its always been unsettling.<br /><br /><br />Side note: Does anyone know what day of the week that was that that Murray made his "video recording" supposedly of Michael "under the influence"...half sleep or awake or whatever? :icon_e_confused:<br />
Conrad Murray supposedly made the tape on May 10,2009 it was a Sonday.
<br /><br />I 100% agree with you, I am a chocolate addict because I drink cocoa milk everyday, LOL , I think Michael's message with his song "Morphine" is very clear:<br /><br />Relax<br />This won't hurt you<br />Before I put it in<br />Close your eyes and count to ten<br />Don't cry<br />I won't convert you<br />There's no need to dismay<br />Close your eyes and drift away <br /><br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol <br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol<br /><br />He's tried<br />Hard to convince her<br />To be over what he had<br />Today he wants it twice as bad<br />Don't cry<br />I won't resent you<br />Yesterday you had his trust<br />Today he's taking twice as mu<br /><br />Doctors are trying their patients to get hooked to take drugs by working hand by hand with chemical labs and obtain huge benefits with it and I think this is one of the biggest desires for Michael to expose and eradicate it once and for all, that's why I think this letter isn't legit and is made by him for a shout out hoaxy purpose it's easy to see that since the date and day of the week used (July 21/sunday) speak volumes.<br />
<br /><br /><br />That song always reminded me of a seductive suicide note...that "last cry" for help sort of thing to draw attention that something is wrong. Its always been unsettling.<br /><br /><br />Side note: Does anyone know what day of the week that was that that Murray made his "video recording" supposedly of Michael "under the influence"...half sleep or awake or whatever? :icon_e_confused:<br />
Conrad Murray supposedly made the tape on May 10,2009 it was a Sonday.<br />
<br /><br />Thank You :icon_mrgreen:<br /><br />I thought maybe there was something to that.....but maybe not (I can't come up with a pattern) :icon_e_confused:<br /><br />
<br />humm dependency on a controlled substance.<br /><br />anybody else see a parallel with media ?<br />
<br /><br />^^^^^^^<br />Prop-of-fool.<br />They didn't change the name without any reason.<br /><br />However, everybody can define dosage, take-in and sheer presence and role of the media his-/herself.<br />Continuous diminishing impact happens to print and tabloids since decades. One day, they will be completely gone.<br />There's an "off" button on any device, too. <br />Pushing it means taking back control over my life and my precious time.
<br />I've always thought the drug stories were all bullshit, but on the other hand I wonder how any person can cope with all the shit MJ had to deal with for so long, without becoming addicted to anything that might make you forget everything, even if it's only for a little while. Many others wouldn't even have made it through alive. So maybe there were problems, I would not be very surprised.<br />
<br /><br />I 100% agree with you, I am a chocolate addict because I drink cocoa milk everyday, LOL , I think Michael's message with his song "Morphine" is very clear:<br /><br />Relax<br />This won't hurt you<br />Before I put it in<br />Close your eyes and count to ten<br />Don't cry<br />I won't convert you<br />There's no need to dismay<br />Close your eyes and drift away <br /><br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol <br />Demerol<br />Demerol<br />Oh God he's taking demerol<br /><br />He's tried<br />Hard to convince her<br />To be over what he had<br />Today he wants it twice as bad<br />Don't cry<br />I won't resent you<br />Yesterday you had his trust<br />Today he's taking twice as mu<br /><br />Doctors are trying their patients to get hooked to take drugs by working hand by hand with chemical labs and obtain huge benefits with it and I think this is one of the biggest desires for Michael to expose and eradicate it once and for all, that's why I think this letter isn't legit and is made by him for a shout out hoaxy purpose it's easy to see that since the date and day of the week used (July 21/sunday) speak volumes.<br />
<br /><br /><br />That song always reminded me of a seductive suicide note...that "last cry" for help sort of thing to draw attention that something is wrong. Its always been unsettling.<br /><br /><br />Side note: Does anyone know what day of the week that was that that Murray made his "video recording" supposedly of Michael "under the influence"...half sleep or awake or whatever? :icon_e_confused:<br />
Conrad Murray supposedly made the tape on May 10,2009 it was a Sonday.<br />
<br /><br />Thank You :icon_mrgreen:<br /><br />I thought maybe there was something to that.....but maybe not (I can't come up with a pattern) :icon_e_confused:<br />
I don't know. I just realized the "Letter" (2002), and the recording (2009) have a 7 year gap betwwen them. Do you think that might be something ? Also i think the song Morphine is huge clue to this hoax, it sounds like the person is sedated or in a medical coma from the drug and the doctor is pacifying the patient while injecting them with Demerol. It sounds like the entire death scene translated to a song. I'm probably wrong... :Crash:
It sounds like the entire death scene translated to a song.
<br /><br />Wow Sunnie, that's good.<br /><br />
Relax<br />This won't hurt you<br />Before I put it in<br />Close your eyes and count to ten<br />Don't cry<br />I won't convert you<br />There's no need to dismay<br />Close your eyes and drift away
<br />It's so obvious... and yet so over looked. Great observation!
I would not be surprised if MJ did have a few dependency issues. He is human like the rest of us and we all have our own special little quirks. As with all things in this hoax, there is the two sides being presented...ie...MJ was a healthy as a horse vs MJ a walking drug addict. So...we continue to speculate with the stories and titbits presented to us. I do go with my gut tho and choose the health freak option. <br /> The one thing I can't swallow is that he would be addicted to an anesthetic like propofol and rely on being sedated for sleep. I've always wondered why MJ chose such a death scene for his hoax. I've scratched my head about it for the past 3 years and through the course, we looked at dodgey doctors/ Dr feelgoods ect, and we're still waiting and watching. <br />I heard a conspiracy video maker say recently that Bob Marley was tortured for the last 6 months of his life by a Nazi trained doctor who was painfully sticking large needles into him under the guise of an alternative cancer cure. She then related that to MJ's 'death'. [she thinks he is gone] <br />But it did make me think of the Jackson visiting the Marleys back in the 70's and the video maker made a connection that I had never previously thought of. <br />[Sorry for straying a little far from original topic here]
Everlastinglove_MJ, thanks for the video of Dr. Treacy, nice man. He talked of how in the 7 to 8 months MJ stayed in Ireland that he never saw him on drugs, and he never gave him any prescription of drugs. He said MJ went under a couple of times with propofol but with an anesthesist present. He said MJ read some of his large medical books and knew quite a bit in the field, was always asking questions to learn. He said he was very intelligent, and would never do anything to harm himself. He said he did have trouble with insomnia.<br />Another video:<br /><br /><br /><br />You know, I think MJ had to have some experience himself with various drugs (probably very minimal) to help him carry out the hoax, so that it was believable with various witnesses telling what they knew, and so that he would be able to get various details correct. But it was NEVER to the extent that the official story has given. Wasn't it Latoya who said MJ had enough propofol in him to kill a horse or elephant? :icon_lol:<br />
This is maybe off topic but I find it interesting . Karen Faye tweeted this as a reply to someone who asked her whether or not Michael watched American Idol . <br />
Let me explain why this question is insane to me. Before Michael died, he suffered from chronic insomnia, exhausted and struggling to survive a schedule that killed him. So, you are wondering if he may have watched American Idol during rehearsals? I was working with him "before he died" and we weren't watching TV.
<br /><br />I find it kind of irrelevant that she brought Michael 's health problems to the spotlight while being asked about a tv show . She could have replied with something like " No , we didn't watch TV " or something like that . It is also fishy and hoaxy that she put the phrase " before he died " between quotation marks . It's something we -hoaxers- do whenever we want to refer to the death which didn't take place .
@Jowariya i don't know what to say about this, but some questions irritate sometimes, so this might just be one of those cases. Karen Faye never seemed hoaxy to me unless I'm missing something out.
<br /> I would not be surprised if MJ did have a few dependency issues. He is human like the rest of us and we all have our own special little quirks. As with all things in this hoax, there is the two sides being presented...ie...MJ was a healthy as a horse vs MJ a walking drug addict. So...we continue to speculate with the stories and titbits presented to us. I do go with my gut tho and choose the health freak option. <br /> The one thing I can't swallow is that he would be addicted to an anesthetic like propofol and rely on being sedated for sleep. I've always wondered why MJ chose such a death scene for his hoax. I've scratched my head about it for the past 3 years and through the course, we looked at dodgey doctors/ Dr feelgoods ect, and we're still waiting and watching. <br />I heard a conspiracy video maker say recently that Bob Marley was tortured for the last 6 months of his life by a Nazi trained doctor who was painfully sticking large needles into him under the guise of an alternative cancer cure. She then related that to MJ's 'death'. [she thinks he is gone] <br />But it did make me think of the Jackson visiting the Marleys back in the 70's and the video maker made a connection that I had never previously thought of. <br />[Sorry for straying a little far from original topic here] <br />
<br /><br /><br />Those who really knew and spent time with MJ say they never saw him under the influence of drugs, that he was healthy, etc. And yet we have various doctor visits and prescriptions/medications found at Carolwood and during the 2003 raid, some under aliases. I think the 2 sides presented - healthy MJ vs "druggie" MJ was deliberate. Maybe it was his way of fooling "them" and the public. It could almost be a defense mechanism, or a suit or armor, to have people think he's unhealthy or unstable (because of all the meds) because then they don't know what he's capable of or what he's planning. It's also something to "fall back on" if something goes awry. If the pepsi fire was the onset of the hoax, the seeds of drug dependency are planted. He entered rehab after the 1993 allegations came out, claiming an addiction to pain killers. I think he would've known at that point that someone(s) was out to get him so going into rehab demonstrated this constant "problem he's had" and it may have bought him some time to plan what he would do next. This is not to say that he never had a problem or never took any meds - I just think the notion of him being addicted was more of a front, to protect himself. Same with the manner of death - it was so bizarre to the point that people would believe it because it's Michael Jackson - the MJ everyone thinks was out of it on drugs for the last half of his life.<br /><br /><br />
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<br />Everlastinglove_MJ, thanks for the video of Dr. Treacy, nice man. He talked of how in the 7 to 8 months MJ stayed in Ireland that he never saw him on drugs, and he never gave him any prescription of drugs. He said MJ went under a couple of times with propofol but with an anesthesist present. He said MJ read some of his large medical books and knew quite a bit in the field, was always asking questions to learn. He said he was very intelligent, and would never do anything to harm himself. He said he did have trouble with insomnia.<br />Another video:<br /><br /><br /><br />You know, I think MJ had to have some experience himself with various drugs (probably very minimal) to help him carry out the hoax, so that it was believable with various witnesses telling what they knew, and so that he would be able to get various details correct. But it was NEVER to the extent that the official story has given. Wasn't it Latoya who said MJ had enough propofol in him to kill a horse or elephant? :icon_lol:<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />It would make sense for Michael to create the back story of drug dependency by visiting several doctors and getting various prescriptions, over the years. He could not be a "believable" "drug addict" if there was no "evidence" to support it. I'm sure there were times where medication was necessary (as with everyone) but I just don't believe that he ever really abused anything. If he ever did have a problem then he had the best people on hand to get him the help he needed. But it's my belief that the best way Michael could've protected himself from say, TPTB or even the public, was to fool them - make fools of them for underestimating him and believing what they hear.
It's interesting that we always have 2 contradicting stories on MJ, isn't it?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />It's interesting that we always have 2 contradicting stories on MJ, isn't it?<br />
<br /><br /><br />Ya I'll say! Could be how he kept his private life private - no one ever really knows what's what.<br /><br /><br />Or were you thinking something more... double-ish? lol
Shit, ...who said or you placed this label of being a drug addict", the media, :icon_e_confused: by which all the people that knew him agree that he was a healthy person<br /><br />Drug Addict is a person in a state of periodic or chronic intoxication caused by the repeated consumption of a drug. The drug becomes a primary need: "first use of the drug to eat". This is the tragedy of man dominated by any addiction, alcohol or any other drugs<br /><br />
It would be a hard sell to make the public believe that Michael died of propofol poisoning without some prior reference to him being at some time dependent on drugs. It had to be introduced and the public made to at least to suspect some dependency in order for them to immediately accept that he had been overdosed. That said, I do not believe that Michael was addicted. I do however believe that he has used aids to help him wind down and get to sleep when he was touring. And at least to me, with his high anxiety and energy, I see that as not so unusual.
<br />It's interesting that we always have 2 contradicting stories on MJ, isn't it?<br />
<br /><br /><br />Ya I'll say! Could be how he kept his private life private - no one ever really knows what's what.<br /><br /><br />Or were you thinking something more... double-ish? lol<br />
<br /><br />Dunno, just interesting.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Maybe wading through all of the contradiction is the "Discover the man you never knew" part. It does bring into question so many things about what was real or not with Michael. Like this video of Michael at the Soul Train awards in '93, where he is using crutches and a wheelchair. Did he really twist his ankle or was this a "Willy Wonka" type-thing that Jermaine said, when Michael was photographed in a wheelchair, months before he "died". Either way, once in front of the mike, he made sure to spread his message of love.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
"Willy Wonka" :icon_lol: <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I will say this, Michael was the master at playing "possum". You are never sure of the real from the fake (which is why we're all here to this day picking stuff apart).<br /><br />I do think he had a dependency on pain meds....whether it was an "addiction" or not, we may never know. :icon_e_confused:<br /><br />But clearly there were doctors who enabled him and others who may have tried to help him IMO :icon_neutral:<br /><br />
Interesting that the first image of somebody having an appointment with a physician popping into our minds is that this person is ill, needs and gets a treatment and a prescription for drugs to purchase at a pharmacy.<br /><br />What else could happen at such an occasion?<br /><br />A consultation accompanying another person (they could also meet there).<br />A business meeting (medical representatives do that for living).<br />A private meeting (they could be friends).<br />The person getting a private lecture in medicine.<br />The person giving a lecture to the physician (who is only a human being in a white outfit and may be wanting to get advice in another area than medicine).<br />Sneeking into the entry of the house and going elsewhere (medical offices usually have business neighbour suites).<br />Dr. Arnold Klein's office e.g. happened to have its address just across Denis Bloch Fine Art - who happens to have a Google map streetview inside of his gallery. Guess what's popping up: paintings of MJ and Dame Elizabeth. Vive la manipulation.<br /><br />
9615 Brighton Way• Suite M-110 • Beverly Hills • California • 90210 • Ph: 1.310.275.5136
<br />http://www.drarnoldklein.com/<br /><br />Check it out on Google maps.<br />Btw, the red brick building where NPG took the images is the surgery clinic left of the white building in which Klein's office should be. Separate buildings with a street to cross.
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."