Mr Michael Jackson NOT mr. nice guy?
chappie
Posts: 529
Comment on TMZ
http://www.tmz.com/2010/09/17/katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-video-interview-people-wanted-him-dead/2/#comments-anchor
21.
Gmopp28, I echo your sentiments. For 30+ years I’ve been around this business it never ceases to amaze me the crap the public will buy into in the name of “fandom.” To borrow a line from you: “I’m a bit tired of you Michael lovers who believe anyone who doesn’t say nothing but positive things about MJ is a traitor.”
I knew MJ & I know Q. Yep, that’s true, my name can be found on every studio project they worked on. MJ was without question one of – if not the – greatest entertainer to grace the stage. His artistry, dedication and discipline were awe inspiring. But for as sweet and kind as he could be off stage, & HE WAS, he could also be a real SOB. Like many great artist in history MJ was equal parts genius and madness. You may not like it but just because you choose not to believe something & it does not fit into your fantasy does not make it any less true. MJ would stab you in the back quicker than anyone if it meant getting his way --> don’t doubt it. He was an incredibly fickle man. MJ also had a terrible habit of taking credit for others work on projects.
Quincy Jones is a good man. He is a wonderful friend to those of us lucky enough to be in his life. How dare ANYONE criticize him for expressing the truth about his relationship with MJ when those of you who don’t know ANY of the parties involved spend an exorbitant amount of time posting your comments and opinions. Good, bad, ugly or indifferent, it does not mean he mourns MJ’s loss any less. In the end MJ was horrible in his treatment of Q. Publicly MJ always took MORE than half of the credit for their – or any of his – professional collaborations. MJ went off the deep end in EVERY aspect of his life and Q – who is no stranger to crazy himself at times – tried to reign him in, but there was no talking to MJ, it was his way or the highway. For those of you who want to bash Q for his comments about MJ’s changing skin color – HERE’S ANOTHER FACT: HE’S 100% RIGHT.
It was obvious to anyone who spent a substantial period of time with MJ (even as far back as the 80's) that he suffered from Body Dysmorphic Disorder. On more than one occasion I personally witnessed MJ recoil - yes, recoil - at the sight of his own reflection. Then the surgeries started one after the other. Q IS THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVED & CARED ABOUT MJ ENOUGH TO CALL HIM ON IT & URGED HIM TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP FOR HIS PROBLEM, and MJ repaid his concern by stomping out of more than one studio session! I know this for fact because I was there.
Like it or not, FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD of his life MJ did not want to be Black. He believed it was part of what (in his mind) made him ugly. The man went to great lengths to make sure his own children would not be Black or have Black features. He went out of his way to divorce himself "personally" from the Black community & was only Black when he felt it would serve his purpose (think trial), if questioned by the media – or they (the Black community) offered him an award. (True story.)
UNDERSTAND, MJ WAS NOT A RACIST. But he was self-loathing. MJ didn’t care if you were Black, HE DID NOT dislike Black people, HE just did not want to be Black. It’s a fact. I say this as a Bi-racial American who was at first horrified by this truth, and then upon seeing for myself that there was really an "illness" behind his actions, I came to pity MJ. MJ just didn’t find Black beautiful or attractive, & he certainly felt that Blacks were intellectually inferior in a majority areas, especially in business. WHO KNOWS HOW OR WHY he came to be this way, BUT HE DID.
MJ was using skin bleaching creams for years, YEARS – long before the public caught on – and everyone around him knew it. (So did LaToya by the way – or do you all think she has just gotten lighter due to age?) This info has even been confirmed (publicly) by numerous sources over the years, including former relatives, co-workers, employees, & biographers alike and has fallen on deaf ears. God-forbid MJ fans consider any truth that does not serve to extend the MJ myth. IT is in large part the reason why his more prominent Black friendships (Q, Diana, Lionel, etc.) fell apart.
When MJ's skin tone started to become uneven in areas DUE TO his repeated over-beachings, SUDDENLY he had Vitiligo. READ THE AUTOPSY. The ME DID NOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM the diagnosis of the disease, he recorded that there was "a lack of melanocytes in areas of the skin that presented CONSISTENT with Vitiligo", and listed the condition in the report (as noted) only because it was a part of preexisting medical records indicating MJ was “treated” for Vitiligo. Only ONE doctor’s records - Arnold Klein, MD - ever reflected a diagnosis of Vitiligo. (& MJ’s doctors took their orders from him.) The report could just as easily said “CONSISTENT” with repeated skin bleaching.” That will be one of the bombshells to come out at trial. The autopsy report also shows that ALL OTHER ORGANS & BODILY SYSTEMS COMMONLY EFFECTED & TESTED TO VERIFY A VITILIGO DIAGNOSIS in a (ANY) patient - the eyes, the endocrine system, etc. - were found to be “UNREMARKABLE” and showed NO SIGNS of the disease. The autopsy report also notes finding plenty of MJ’s prized melanocyte destroying bleaching creams in his house.
And to the “fans” who say it was hereditary: THAT WAS MJ's BIGGEST COUP. There is NO PROOF – NOR WILL THERE EVER BE – that MJ’s paternal grandfather (or any other blood relative) EVER had Vitiligo. Only MJ’s word and that of family members WHO KNEW BETTER THAN TO GO AGAINST MJ's ORDERS lest they risk being cut off financially. It was an outright LIE. (One fabricated by Bob & MJ, invented for Oprah, and perpetuated by family & diehard fans to save face.) Come on now, how convenient, blame it on a distant relative who was dead long before MJ was even born.
DON'T BLAME Q FOR KEEPING IT REAL. MJ’s GREATEST talent was his ability to MANIPULATE the media and the (his) public. He WANTED you to view him as a demigod. For him it was sport. MJ’s fate was of his own making. That may be a bitter pill swallow but it is no less the truth. There’s lots of truth yet to come. Keep the lawsuits coming, and all the TRUTH will become a part of the record & MJ's final legacy, & not just the "image" the Estate is trying to preserve. There were SO MANY wonderful things about MJ that should be remembered & celebrated, but in truth, there was another side that the public will not take kindly to, and sadly, when it does, MJ's Estate will never recover.
Posted at 3:26 AM on Sep 17, 2010 by FoQ
Chappie
http://www.tmz.com/2010/09/17/katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-video-interview-people-wanted-him-dead/2/#comments-anchor
21.
Gmopp28, I echo your sentiments. For 30+ years I’ve been around this business it never ceases to amaze me the crap the public will buy into in the name of “fandom.” To borrow a line from you: “I’m a bit tired of you Michael lovers who believe anyone who doesn’t say nothing but positive things about MJ is a traitor.”
I knew MJ & I know Q. Yep, that’s true, my name can be found on every studio project they worked on. MJ was without question one of – if not the – greatest entertainer to grace the stage. His artistry, dedication and discipline were awe inspiring. But for as sweet and kind as he could be off stage, & HE WAS, he could also be a real SOB. Like many great artist in history MJ was equal parts genius and madness. You may not like it but just because you choose not to believe something & it does not fit into your fantasy does not make it any less true. MJ would stab you in the back quicker than anyone if it meant getting his way --> don’t doubt it. He was an incredibly fickle man. MJ also had a terrible habit of taking credit for others work on projects.
Quincy Jones is a good man. He is a wonderful friend to those of us lucky enough to be in his life. How dare ANYONE criticize him for expressing the truth about his relationship with MJ when those of you who don’t know ANY of the parties involved spend an exorbitant amount of time posting your comments and opinions. Good, bad, ugly or indifferent, it does not mean he mourns MJ’s loss any less. In the end MJ was horrible in his treatment of Q. Publicly MJ always took MORE than half of the credit for their – or any of his – professional collaborations. MJ went off the deep end in EVERY aspect of his life and Q – who is no stranger to crazy himself at times – tried to reign him in, but there was no talking to MJ, it was his way or the highway. For those of you who want to bash Q for his comments about MJ’s changing skin color – HERE’S ANOTHER FACT: HE’S 100% RIGHT.
It was obvious to anyone who spent a substantial period of time with MJ (even as far back as the 80's) that he suffered from Body Dysmorphic Disorder. On more than one occasion I personally witnessed MJ recoil - yes, recoil - at the sight of his own reflection. Then the surgeries started one after the other. Q IS THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVED & CARED ABOUT MJ ENOUGH TO CALL HIM ON IT & URGED HIM TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP FOR HIS PROBLEM, and MJ repaid his concern by stomping out of more than one studio session! I know this for fact because I was there.
Like it or not, FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD of his life MJ did not want to be Black. He believed it was part of what (in his mind) made him ugly. The man went to great lengths to make sure his own children would not be Black or have Black features. He went out of his way to divorce himself "personally" from the Black community & was only Black when he felt it would serve his purpose (think trial), if questioned by the media – or they (the Black community) offered him an award. (True story.)
UNDERSTAND, MJ WAS NOT A RACIST. But he was self-loathing. MJ didn’t care if you were Black, HE DID NOT dislike Black people, HE just did not want to be Black. It’s a fact. I say this as a Bi-racial American who was at first horrified by this truth, and then upon seeing for myself that there was really an "illness" behind his actions, I came to pity MJ. MJ just didn’t find Black beautiful or attractive, & he certainly felt that Blacks were intellectually inferior in a majority areas, especially in business. WHO KNOWS HOW OR WHY he came to be this way, BUT HE DID.
MJ was using skin bleaching creams for years, YEARS – long before the public caught on – and everyone around him knew it. (So did LaToya by the way – or do you all think she has just gotten lighter due to age?) This info has even been confirmed (publicly) by numerous sources over the years, including former relatives, co-workers, employees, & biographers alike and has fallen on deaf ears. God-forbid MJ fans consider any truth that does not serve to extend the MJ myth. IT is in large part the reason why his more prominent Black friendships (Q, Diana, Lionel, etc.) fell apart.
When MJ's skin tone started to become uneven in areas DUE TO his repeated over-beachings, SUDDENLY he had Vitiligo. READ THE AUTOPSY. The ME DID NOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM the diagnosis of the disease, he recorded that there was "a lack of melanocytes in areas of the skin that presented CONSISTENT with Vitiligo", and listed the condition in the report (as noted) only because it was a part of preexisting medical records indicating MJ was “treated” for Vitiligo. Only ONE doctor’s records - Arnold Klein, MD - ever reflected a diagnosis of Vitiligo. (& MJ’s doctors took their orders from him.) The report could just as easily said “CONSISTENT” with repeated skin bleaching.” That will be one of the bombshells to come out at trial. The autopsy report also shows that ALL OTHER ORGANS & BODILY SYSTEMS COMMONLY EFFECTED & TESTED TO VERIFY A VITILIGO DIAGNOSIS in a (ANY) patient - the eyes, the endocrine system, etc. - were found to be “UNREMARKABLE” and showed NO SIGNS of the disease. The autopsy report also notes finding plenty of MJ’s prized melanocyte destroying bleaching creams in his house.
And to the “fans” who say it was hereditary: THAT WAS MJ's BIGGEST COUP. There is NO PROOF – NOR WILL THERE EVER BE – that MJ’s paternal grandfather (or any other blood relative) EVER had Vitiligo. Only MJ’s word and that of family members WHO KNEW BETTER THAN TO GO AGAINST MJ's ORDERS lest they risk being cut off financially. It was an outright LIE. (One fabricated by Bob & MJ, invented for Oprah, and perpetuated by family & diehard fans to save face.) Come on now, how convenient, blame it on a distant relative who was dead long before MJ was even born.
DON'T BLAME Q FOR KEEPING IT REAL. MJ’s GREATEST talent was his ability to MANIPULATE the media and the (his) public. He WANTED you to view him as a demigod. For him it was sport. MJ’s fate was of his own making. That may be a bitter pill swallow but it is no less the truth. There’s lots of truth yet to come. Keep the lawsuits coming, and all the TRUTH will become a part of the record & MJ's final legacy, & not just the "image" the Estate is trying to preserve. There were SO MANY wonderful things about MJ that should be remembered & celebrated, but in truth, there was another side that the public will not take kindly to, and sadly, when it does, MJ's Estate will never recover.
Posted at 3:26 AM on Sep 17, 2010 by FoQ
Chappie
Comments
Interesting comment.
I think there is a big chance the poster is right about some stuff, although I am sure that even the people that worked with him, didn't really know him. But I do think he was a pain in the ass sometimes and I have said that many times. We can't all be nice 24/7, ALL of us have a 'dark' side, so does Mike. I think that if he wanted something, he got it, however and whenever. Add to that that he was fucked many times by a lot of snakes, that really changes your attitude as well. I can't blame him, it's human nature. If I would always say what I really thought... Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances and I think he was good at that.
The vitiligo is also something that's bugging me. I am not so sure that it is because he didn't want to be black. Maybe they did something in his make-up. I have discussed this with Mo a few times and although I know vitiligo can spread fast as hell, there is one thing bugging me. He had a spot on his hand (make-up on the hand for mixing and comparing to the color of your skin) and face and neck. Places where the make-up was applied. There are a few possibilities:
1. They put poison in his foundation that distroyed his pigment.
2. He really has vitiligo and for some reason he never had the brown parts around the eyes that other vitiligo patients have or he used theatrical make-up to cover it up (this we should see on pictures, because that make-up is really thick).
3. This poster is right and he did have an illness that made him think being black made him ugly.
To me there is no option where he just didn't want to be black, I don't believe that becoming white was his own fault. I also don't believe he didn't want his children to be black. But the continuing smooth skin color of his face through the years bugs me. I think option 2 isn't even a far fetched thought ...
Anyway, I think there is a lot we don't know about the man.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I go with this opinion myself....
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hopefully when he saw that he was being controlled into doing 50 shows instead of 10, that he said "nigger, fu@k you" and I don't mean nigger as in black person, I mean it to say "ignorant muthafuccas, fu@k you, I ain't doin s#!t"
sorry for the foul language, but I know no other way to say exactly what I mean and feel <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
Maybe that's kind of how Mike thought about things? I don't know. But I do know that I am a positive person at my core, but in this world you cannot ignore or get away from all the negative vibrations, and to ignore them does absolutely nothing for the world. You have to confront them to make any kind of difference. The trick is to confront the negativity without letting it consume you. You confront it - meaning you have a difficult conversation with someone, yell at someone, fire someone, whatever it may be -but then you move on from it and leave the negative energy where it was. You'll come out of that situation with your spirit weighing less because of the negative energy you got rid of, and the situation/people involved that you left behind will then learn and be able to grow from it, even if it hurt them. I think all emotions and all situations in this life need to be embraced, or we simply cannot evolve.
I also don't think he would just want to change his skin color, especially to the point of being white as a ghost. I could see wanted to lighten the skin a bit, but surely he'd want to keep some color to his skin? I can't say for him obviously, but I think most people wouldn't prefer to look that pale. But it's not completely impossible.
It's just so interesting... everyone who talks about him acts like they know him so well..but they all say different things. Can't all be true. Can't all be false though either.
The bit about changing his skin is unsettling and if we are to believe the writer, then personally I think it goes beyond just being a 'pain' and is down to psychological problems as the writer said. But still, I am sorry, but I would find this very difficult to accept or forgive.
If we are to believe the reader, it changes a lot if you ask me -meaning that Michael is no longer 'the victim' and he did some pretty terrible things too.
I personally don't believe it, as it could have been written by anyone, even if it's someone in the know, sounds like they hold a grudge.
"Michael Jackson was a household name all over the world for over a decade before his skin became light. He was loved by many races as a black man WAY BEFORE so called "wanting to appeal to other races so he turned white theory" (but I do believe his vitilogo was a reaction to his original plastic surgery) Also, the "not being bothered with black people" is another lie. Michael Jackson gave millions to the United Negro College Fund, putting his money to good use for those who need it, not only there, but he also put the USA for Africa We Are The World thing together, hello? Africa=black people
The only time I recall the courts system charging anyone innocent is after the alleged suspect has spent time in jail. Usually after the real perpetrator has confessed/or proof comes forward that the person is innocent."
thought I would add it here too <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
The first thing that came to mind was credibility. I am to beLIEve this poster is credible because they say they are?
Now they say that "UNDERSTAND, MJ WAS NOT A RACIST...he certainly felt that Blacks were intellectually inferior in a majority areas, especially in business."
Well that IS a Racist belief. The basis of racism is the thinking that one race is superior to the other be it intellectually or in another area. This is an outright contradiction and the poster is suggesting Michael was racist.
Michael stated himself that he knew who he was all he had to do was look into a mirror, he was a black man.
In this picture Michael looks quite young. I find it hard to believe that he was bleaching his skin in patches like this picture shows us.
The whole Quincy thing is getting real old, real fast. Sure he deserves some credit but who is this poster trying to fool? Was it Quincy’s voice that billions of people spent money on albums to listen to? Was it Quincy’s dancing that everyone, of all ages, tried to copy...that artists TODAY try to emulate? Was it Quincy who went out each night to perform to millions around the globe, needing to practice and rehearse vigorously...needing to damage his body (and health), sometimes for not even a penny? I could go on and on here...but the bottom line is that, IMO, Mike gave Quincy all the credit and respect he was due...given the fact that had it not been for MJ, Quincy’s lifestyle would be somewhat different today...NOT the other way around.
As for Mike’s legacy...if some bleaching cream is what, in the poster’s mind, is gonna tarnish people’s perception of the genius that MJ is...well, then those are NOT true fans, nor do they have a heart because if he was intentionally changing the color of his skin, it most likely stems from some sort of psychological problem. And that comes as a shock to people???? Shit, the multi-billion dollar ‘self-help’ industry, along with all the rich psychiatrists running around today...were NOT built for Mike. Most people have issues, that’s human nature...BUT imagine your own issues, and then add in the need for perfection in all you do and how you look, mix in a bit of being gawked at every single second that you’re in public and then having pics of you scattered everywhere for billions to see and talk about, then you might as well thrown in having media whores write stories about you that aren’t true and that make you look like a ‘freak’...but hell, why stop there. Finish it all off with having most of the entire world unsure as to whether or not you molested kids! Once you do all that...then we can talk about having ‘issues’.
Even if MJ didn’t want to be black, even if he was bleaching his skin (which I find hard to believe)...but even if...even if he was a complete asshole at times (which I don’t doubt for a second)...how, in God’s green earth, does that change the fact that this MAN has given more to charity than ANY other person in the world (was that just for ‘sport’???)....how does it change the fact that HE has broken more records than ANYONE else (not Quincy)....how does it change the fact that he grew up in the spotlight and lived a life that NO ONE can fully understand....how does it change the fact that he is, and always has been, a HUMAN genius....but, most importantly, how does it change the fact that NONE of this was ever anyone’s ‘business’ but Mike’s?
With L.O.V.E. always.
You're welcome.
I would just like to add too that in the picture I posted, it seems it was taken before Michael had undergone plastic surgery so Vitiligo would not have been a result of that and skin cell transplants are a new medical procedure that has only been recently tried for sufferers of Vitiligo.
Firstly, I am not a 'fan', although I admire Michael for his humanitarian efforts and his talent. So you are right there.
I have to say that if it was true, yes I would find it hard to accept because if he a) thought black people were inferior in some way and b) bleached his skin because he thought it was ugly then he would be classed as racist for whatever reason, and therefore be a hypocrite and yes I would feel very insulted indeed.I'm sorry but that would just not be acceptable in my opinion.
However, I do not for a minute think this is true!
EDIT: Also, saying if it was all true and he just thought black people were inferior and ugly, then we need to look at why he thinks that, his upbringing etc. True, but then why does anyone become racist? Normally because of some deep rooted problems. Do we need to look at the reasons for every single person being a racist in this case?
Again, I must state that I don not think any of this is true about Michael! But it is an interesting debate.
I am not saying I 100% believe the poster, I am simply saying that there could be more truth in his comment than many fans would like to believe. I don't know what's up between Mike and QJ, I was never there and I can't have an opinion about it. As far as I know Mike always thanked Quincy and gave him credit, but in the end it was him that made the albums big, not Quincy. And probably that's something we'll never know, because it's none of our business. I agree that people should have had the balls to come up with this when Mike was still officially alive, then he could have defended himself. Issues like this should be discussed privately, not in puclic when the person can't defend himself.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I get the impression that Quincy Jones is not happy about something going on with the Michael Jackson estate. Why would he be making these comments about bleaching creams (he has also mentioned chemical peels in a previous interview). There must have been rancor between them.
I don't doubt Michael was a tough dude. How else could you perform before thousands of people? But he was a professional with a lot of self-control. He just never let us see what he was going through (maybe a bit during the trial).
Concerning vitiligo. It's amazing how many people actually have it. It's not that rare. Doesn't Michael's son have it too?
An interesting discussion.
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Many people have vitiligo, but it is the smoothness of his skin color on his face through the years that is not that common with vitiligo. I have the horrible feeling that it was poison that caused it and it might as well have been put in his make-up. It would explain why we never saw the brown patches on the face around the eyes like we see with other vitiligo patients. It would explain why it was in his neck as well and it would explain the spot on his hand.
Quincy might just have a grudge against Mike because Mike could turn anything into gold. Quincy might have been a respectable singer himself, but never did what Mike did. I think many are jealous of his talent, but I think most will never admit that. Mike is a genius and he knows he is, otherwise he wouldn't have the balls to pull this off.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I really don´t get the whole ongoing fuss about that.
In my local afro-american beauty shop are whole shelves filled with products, cremes etc. to bleach your skin, freely available to buy for anyone - I assume there wouldn´t be such a market if there were no demand. It´s presumtuous to judge people who make use of that and it´s furthermore absurd to make conclusions about their character.
Anyone else here who uses hair dyes? Shouldn´t we feel guilty that we mess around with nature? *sigh* <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Thanks for the reminder!
An that's just a side-effect. Imagine what it can do to your skin when you're allergic.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."We all want to keep an open mind all the time, which is brilliant, and specially when we are told not very nice things about Mike, we want to make it clear that our open mindedness is real, so of course let's not dismiss someone just because he is not talking nice things.
BUT
It did surprise me a bit that we gave him that much consideration all of a sudden. I mean, he could be anyone, and honestly, he's pretty much saying what tabloids have been saying for years -and I think we have all repeatedly stated how much we trust them, right???
What I mean to say is, no, of course Michael is not perfect and of course there is a lot we don't know about him. But, I'm not giving much time to someone who is challenging what I, and you all, have come to conclude after years of reading and connecting the dots. Namely, that he did not bleach his skin because of some desire to be white. I mean, come on! I will make a mental note of this, put it at the back of my mind somewhere in case I ever need to reconsider it. But I very much doubt it. It's not just about the vitiligo, not even about the shock at the possibility of it being real -and if it was, I am not him to know the motives behind such actions, because we all have motives and I can accept that, that's why I don't do judging.
But think about this: does this description fit with MJ's message, with the reason for the hoax, with what he has been telling us for years? If this was proven true, I would have to stop believing in the hoax. NOT because I couldn't accept it, but because these two personalities exclude each other.
I agree 100%. Michael is HUMAN and noone, I don't care who you are, is perfect. There is no way that Michael could have achieved everthing he has without being an ass at times. As was said already there were so many people trying to control him (including his own father) and I'm sure there came a time when that realization set in for him and he knew he had to get tough and take control himself. So yes, I do believe he was very demanding. He had to be. In my opinion anyone who thinks he wouldn't be like this and that he would do no wrong is worshiping Michael as an idol and not being realistic.
As for his skin color changing I also believe that if he did lighten his skin intentionally because he didn't want to be black than it was due to some deep rooted psychological issues. Who are we to say what they may be but I'm sure having a father telling you you're ugly all the time probably doesn't help. I personally think that he did have vitiligo.but that is my opinion.
So as you said, this post DOES NOT CHANGE ANY FACTS. The number one fact being that Michael is HUMAN
Love and Blessings
Ok - two versions. One from this guy who says Michael is NOT Mr. Nice Guy (above) and another from this 80Zackary from Canada (below). It sounds like they were both witnesses to Michael and Quincy's relationship.
For me, the first version isn't consistent with Michael's character. I know that Michael is human and he probably had some tantrums when things didn't go his way. After all, he grew up in the spotlight and was used to being doted on. However, unless he had a split personality (and I think that after 45 years in the public eye we would have seen it) we haven't really witnessed that type of personality and it's not consistent with many of the other stories we've heard. I believe the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think the person above probably had more favor with Quincy and the person below probably the opposite.
As far as Lupus and Vitiligo - I do believe he had the disease. And I think he did the best he could to hide it with makeup over the years. I also believe he had BDD. But why does he owe anyone an explanation for his personal life and what gives us (or his friends and colleagues) the right to think he should disclose is medical conditions to us? We don't expect the same from other celebrities. Being in the public eye doesn't mean we own him. I think it was Michael's desire to be what everyone thought he should be that set him on this path in addition to the name calling he received from certain family members when he was young. He wasn't given the chance to be himself nor was he accepted flaws and all. And he set just as high of a bar on himself as the world did for him.
I am looking forward to the continuation from 80Zachary. It sounds like he's just getting started. Blessings to all. Michael - we love you more.
Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 20:47
80Zackary:
Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones Did Not Make History Together
Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones did not make history together.
Michael Jackson made history.
For far too long, Quincy Jones has been taking far too much credit for his work on "Off The Wall", "Thriller" and "Bad". It was actually Quincy who approached Michael on the set of "The Wiz" and asked if he could produce MJ's next album. From the start, it was Quincy who sought out Michael, not the other way around....
In an odd way, "Off The Wall" has actually stood the test of time best of all three of their recordings. "Off The Wall" could be released today and it would still be a major hit. Very little remixing or changes would be necessary. Most of "Thriller" has aged very well - funny enough, I think the title track has aged worst of all - it has 1980's written all over it! But, of course, "Billie Jean" is timeless and considered by many to be MJ's finest moment. No wonder, MIchael Jackson began to question Quincy's judgment during the recording of "Thriler". First, Quincy wanted to change the title of "Billie Jean" to "Not My Lover" - Jones was concerned about the possible association between Billie Jean King, but really, Quincy, who cares? "Not My Lover" is a lousy title period.....
Then, MIchael really began to question Quincy's judgment when he thought "Billie Jean" should be left off the "Thriller" album! Apparently, Quincy thought "Billie Jean" was not "up to scratch".....great judgment Quincy - you almost deleted Michael's most classic track!
Then, there was the struggle with the recording of the "Bad" album. Quincy and Michael were always at odds. Quincy was conservative and calculating, Michael was creative and wanted to push the envelope.....So, the two had many disagreements during the recordings of all three of their albums....The recording of "Bad" was not fun. Recording sessions were intense. Michael was obsessed with topping "Thriller" - he wanted the new album to sell 100 million copies....All involved knew that public and fan expectations would be very high. There were many arguments between Quincy and Michael..... Quincy wanted "Another Part Of Me" to appear and the album and MJ wanted the more wild "Streetwalker".....just compare the two tracks....you will see how "Streetwalker" is actually the more daring choice! Then there was the issue with Quincy's approach - he is very calculating - and "Bad" suffers from it because it does sound a little like Thriller, Part 2.....Don't get me wrong, I love the "Bad" album, but I would have loved to have heard more of Michael and less of Quincy on that CD.....In interviews, Quincy would argue with Michael stating "an album is made up of 10 tracks" when Michael wanted to include more! Mr. Jones, please let us know where it says an album is made up of 10 songs? Also, Michael was seriously pissed off that Quincy Jones strongly argued that "Smooth Criminal" should not appear on the "Bad" album. As with "Billie Jean", MJ knew Quincy was dead wrong.....and history has proven MIchael right.... "Smooth Criminal" would probably be listed in the top 5 MJ singles of all time. "Smooth Criminal" confirmed that MIchael's musical instincts were superior to Jones and it was time to break free on the next album....And just listen to "Dangerous" - leaving Quincy Jones was one one of the best decisions MJ ever made. The first half of "Dangerous" is the funkiest music MJ has ever recorded (Prince move over, MJ proves here that when it comes to getting funky, he will outdo you!!!) Plus, the range on "Dangerous" was incredible - Quincy Jones would never have produced an album that wildly creative! From gospel "Will You Be There", to humanitarian "Heal The World" to haunting and melancholy "Gone Too Soon"..... "Dangerous" had every kind of musical style you could imagine and at 77 minutes it really counted as two albums in one....plus, Black or White - what a great interracial pop song with a video that is still mind blowing in 2010.....I think "Dangerous" was actually Michael's finest creative artist - and guess what Quincy Jones (you egomaniac) - HE DID IT ALL WITHOUT YOU..... Michael felt Jones was grabbing too much credit and in "Dangerous" MJ knocked that point right out of the ball park.....
Now, for some of the backstabbing comments Quincy Jones has made about Michael Jackson. In particular, Jones has stated that he never believed MJ's claims that he had the skin disorder Vitilgo,, in fact, Jones said Michael's claims to have the disease were "B.S" What kind of ego do you have Mr. Jones? Who do you think you are? You worked with this man and three albums and you basically state he is a liar.... Wow, no wonder MJ left you with the loyalty you display.....The fact is - does it really matter? Is it anyones business? It is medically possible to develop Vitilgo after having chemical peels and maybe MJ was embarrassed that he brought the disorder upon himself? It is it the business of Mr. Jones? Does Jones not understand that MIchael suffered his whole life from BODY DYSMORPHIC DISORDER? Unfortunately, there is so much misunderstanding regarding this disorder. First, it is not vanity driven. Just the opposite - Michael probably thought of himself has physically ugly most of his life and was desperately trying to change each unattractive feature... Unfortunately, MJ suffered from a severe form of this disorder and he relentlessly pursued any change that he found unattractive....and who cares if he wanted his skin to be lighter? Maybe he just found that more attractive...that is Michael's personal choice and Quincy Jones has no bloody business commenting on the matter. You can see that Jones has NO UNDERSTANDING of MIchael when he said MJ's obsession with his appearance was "ridiculous". HELLLO, Mr. Jones - in your complete ignorance you display no understanding of Body Dysmorphic Disorder and the HELL that people with this disorder go through....for example, the suicide rate for people with this disorder is twice that of people who suffer for major depression..... I don't think Quincy Jones understood MIchael Jackson at all........and I think, in the end, that MJ saw this was true - Michael was just too creative for Jones calculating and "connect the dots' production approach.... And frankly, all this "I lost my little brother" kind of talk by Jones of MJ is pure BS.....You know what Quincy Jones"......Michael Jackson was musically far smarter than you....anyone who thinks "Billie Jean" and "Smooth Criminal" should not have been released needs their head examined..... Michael proved on "Dangerous" that he never needed you, and, in fact, was better off without you....
Always keep in mind Quincy, you never made history with Michael Jackon....
Michael Jackson made history all on his own!
Peace....
Next, I'm going to deal with the false accusations of 1993 and 2003 and the losers behind those accusations.....Michael's name must be cleared once and for all....I don't believe for a second that he ever touched those money hungry little backstabbers...
TO BE CONTINUED....
Yes and just ONE of the side-effects. (holy crap)
Vitiligo or not, I truly believe someone other than himself wanted him to become white. Maybe it's a combination of stuff they did in his food for instance that destroyed his pigment, and the make-up so his face would stay smooth. Maybe he came up with the vitiligo and one of his family members having it because he simply couldn't tell the real story out of fear for his own life.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Did Michael said something bad about Quincy? ( not that i can recall)
True he stopped working with Quincy ( reason?? ..whatever) but when he got a award he always mentioned Quincy.