No body was used. Dummy only. Autopsy is complete fabrication, as are all reports from UCLA.
Body temp is only ONE factor used when determining time of death. ONE, not ONLY.
But they didn't need to keep the room warm for a dummy. The paramedics couldn't recognize MJ and I remember they said that he looked like an old Asian guy <!-- s --><!-- s --> It's not too hard to find a dead person. So I go with the real body in the room theory.
Classic diversion. Warming the room would have zero effect on hiding the fact that someone had died hours or days earlier.
Zero.
No effect. We need to understand that forensic science is not that simple nor easily manipulated. There are many physical factors that are used to determine time of death, presence and progression of rigor, pressure and consistency of the fluid in the eyeballs, presence and location of digested food in the gut, and more... and the media is trying to make you believe that room temperature throws a wrench in the coroner's work. It doesn't and wouldn't.
As far as the testimony, the ambulance pic doesn't even come close to matching the description the EMTs have given. In any case, the EMTs have to be actors if the 911 call was fake, which is almost certainly the case. Real EMTs don't show up after you make a fake 911 call.
We need to move past these points, we are getting tripped up on easily debunked theories.
I agree with you Bec - all the way. I feel Michael (and TS) wants us to look OUTSIDE the box - and not just outside the box with our noses pressed right up against it either <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> In this hoax, things are never as they first appear to be. We have been witnessing a very clever display of the art of illusion - something that has never been attempted on such a large scale. That's my spin on it anyway, but of course I don't expect people to see it how I see it. We should all rejoice in our own individuality and this is exactly what has made Michael stand out from the crowd from the time he was born. Love, peace & blessings, emerald xo
No body was used. Dummy only. Autopsy is complete fabrication, as are all reports from UCLA.
Body temp is only ONE factor used when determining time of death. ONE, not ONLY.
But they didn't need to keep the room warm for a dummy. The paramedics couldn't recognize MJ and I remember they said that he looked like an old Asian guy <!-- s --><!-- s --> It's not too hard to find a dead person. So I go with the real body in the room theory.
Classic diversion. Warming the room would have zero effect on hiding the fact that someone had died hours or days earlier.
Zero.
No effect. We need to understand that forensic science is not that simple nor easily manipulated. There are many physical factors that are used to determine time of death, presence and progression of rigor, pressure and consistency of the fluid in the eyeballs, presence and location of digested food in the gut, and more... and the media is trying to make you believe that room temperature throws a wrench in the coroner's work. It doesn't and wouldn't.
As far as the testimony, the ambulance pic doesn't even come close to matching the description the EMTs have given. In any case, the EMTs have to be actors if the 911 call was fake, which is almost certainly the case. Real EMTs don't show up after you make a fake 911 call.
We need to move past these points, we are getting tripped up on easily debunked theories.
I agree with you Bec - all the way. I feel Michael (and TS) wants us to look OUTSIDE the box - and not just outside the box with our noses pressed right up against it either <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> In this hoax, things are never as they first appear to be. We have been witnessing a very clever display of the art of illusion - something that has never been attempted on such a large scale. That's my spin on it anyway, but of course I don't expect people to see it how I see it. We should all rejoice in our own individuality and this is exactly what has made Michael stand out from the crowd from the time he was born. Love, peace & blessings, emerald xo
Yes.
So the EMTs are lying on the stand. The pic is proof of that.
And we can't say oh well the ambulance ic is a fake.
If the ambulance pic is fake then Ben committed fraud. He SOLD that pic to ET for est. $500K. That's federal level fraud.
So ET hasn't filed fraud complaints against Ben. No one in 19 months on the forum has been able to prove that pic is fake. No One.
I have to then draw the conclusion that the pic is real. (I have always thought it was real). To support the pic being real:
It was sold to a major news media company. Proof it was sold: photographer's spoken videotaped statement and the photo appearing 6/26/09 on the cover of commercial magazines.
Upon inspection, no photoshop lines or irregularities are present.
The badges on the EMTs arms are the correct, current LAFD badge.
The equipment pictured in the back round of the ambulance interior is consistent with equipment inside ambulances at current, verified by currently employed paramedics.
The equipment being used on the "patient" is consistent with the situation, as verified by professionals currently employed in the field.
We have 3 separate video taped footages of the scene that day, from three different angles of the exact moment when the photographer takes these ambulance photos through the side window by pressing the camera against the glass. By using both films, the entire sequence of events can be witnessed from start to finish.
The reflection visible in the photo is consistant with the scene on video.
To support the pic being fake:
Brian Oxman said he was "95% sure it was most likely photoshopped." This means he is speculating.
...and that's it really. The most logical conclusion that can be reached when considering all of the information is MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ doesn't indicate that the photo is a fake, MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ only suggests that the MJ is a fake.
@Bec
Well it's just theories about what happened on that day and how it happened. And still the dead body in the room makes sense to me. Not everyone can be in on the hoax. Paramedics could be telling the truth about how they couldn't recognize MJ or how he looked like an Asian guy. It is still no hard to find a body who died a couple of hours earlier. Maybe your theory is right but still mine makes perfect sense to me. This is fiction in reality and reality in fiction and some of the things we see are the reality in fiction part of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. It is important to make the difference btw the two.
<TMZ>Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the L.A. County Coroner cannot pinpoint the time of Michael Jackson's death ... but paramedics say when they arrived they believed he was dead for at least an hour and maybe longer.
Dr. Conrad Murray's statement to LAPD detectives lays out a timeline in which Dr. Murray administered Propofol at 10:40 AM and then ten minutes later (10:50) he walked out of the room, went to the bathroom and returned two minutes later (10:52) to find Jackson was not breathing. He did not have anyone call 911 until 12:21 PM ... approximately an hour-and-a-half later.<TMZ> This entire timeline changed during this prelim trial... and keeps changing... quote from court 1/4/11: "Deputy District Attorney, David Walgren said he will rely on Murray's statements to police, as well as text messages, phone records and expert testimony to show the doctor should stand trial.
He said evidence will show Murray waited at least 21 minutes to call 911 and ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence before summoning help. In the most favorable scenario, Walgren said, Murray waited at least nine minutes before calling paramedics." So what happened to the hour and a half, Deputy?
<TMZ>Sources say cops are suspicious of Dr. Murray's account. They say when Dr. Murray was interviewed by them two days after Jackson died -- his lawyer by his side -- the doctor's account seemed "scripted."
<TMZ>If rigor mortis has not set in, the only way to approximate time of death is by body temperature. <TMZ> I think I proved with the four sources above, if rigor hadn't set in at all... the body hasn't been dead very long at all. And temp isn't FAR from the only way to approximate t.o.d. If you consider rigor starts with the eyelids and jaw and progressively spreads through the body, I have a very very hard time believing that a paramedic who checked pupil response and inserted the tracheal tube didn't notice rigor in the eyelids and jaw? By personal experience, I'm going to attest that rigor in the eyelids sets in FAST. If you've ever experienced a dead pet you know. A paramedic is NOT going to be fooled by a dead body. Nor will there be any question about it. Our trial paramedics refuse to even come out and say it, they just suggest that they suspected he was dead. I mean, when you consider the rigor in the eyelids... you're either dead or not. There's no suspecting anything. Even if they simply went along to appease Murray, you are not going to be able to insert a trachael tube into a corpse very easily.
<TMZ> Once a person dies, their temperature eventually rises or falls to the temperature of the environment. For example, if Jackson were in a 70 degree room, his body temp would drop to 70. The body temperature typically drops a degree to a degree and a half per hour, but it's dependent on the ambient temperature.
Here's the problem -- when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time. But we're told paramedics did not get a read on his body temp because they were busy performing CPR. <TMZ> I fail to see the "problem" TMZ. Considering body temp in a corpse will drop 1 to 1 and 1/2 degrees per hour until it matches the room temperature, and the rate of this temp drop can be affected by the room temp, a body in a 90* room would take longer to cool, and a body in a 30* room less time to cool.... you have still 8 hours for a 98* body to reach 90*, and no one has suggested that MJ died at 4am. In any case, there is no problem regardless of how long dead and how hot the room as forensics has a formula to deal with this. Here's an online calculator to determine time of death using variables including room temperature: <!-- m -->http://www.pathguy.com/TimeDead.htm<!-- m --> Imagine that.
<TMZ>Bottom line -- it's possible Jackson could have been dead much longer than Dr. Murray said. There's no scientific way of knowing.<TMZ> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| --> Yes of course there's many scientific ways of knowing. Here are some:
The eyes of a victim can also hold answers to the time of death, as a thin cloudy film is developed over the eye within 3 hours after death has occurred. The eyeballs become softer as a result of less fluid pressure behind the eye and the degree to which this has occurred can be used as a measure of the time since death.
The pooling of the blood can be a vital clue in determining the time of death and is known as hypostasis. This occurs when the blood ceases flowing, settling in the lowest parts of the body and in turn, causing the skin to become pink and red in colour. This process is complete in up to 6 hours after death.
The digestive system and gut contents of a victim can provide important clues to the time of death of a victim. Chewed food will firstly pass through the oesophagus and then down into the stomach within seconds of the initial swallowing. After 3 hours, the food then leaves the stomach and heads toward the small intestines. 6 hours after eating a meal, the food will have traveled half way through the small intestines and begin moving through the large intestine. Where the victim's small intestine is empty, it suggests that the victim ate his or her last meal approximately 8 hours before death. The digestive process usually takes a bit more than a day
This TMZ article from 2009 is really, really full of horrible misinformation. I did about 15 min of internet research and really, copying and pasting for this post took longer then just reading the various articles written on the subject. Whoever wrote this article and all the others just like it obviously just put into quotes what one person says and calls it an article, no research, not even a Google search.
We cannot get side tracked by this stuff guys. It's not true what they're trying to paint as reality.
So the EMTs are lying on the stand. The pic is proof of that.
And we can't say oh well the ambulance ic is a fake.
If the ambulance pic is fake then Ben committed fraud. He SOLD that pic to ET for est. $500K. That's federal level fraud.
So ET hasn't filed fraud complaints against Ben. No one in 19 months on the forum has been able to prove that pic is fake. No One.
I have to then draw the conclusion that the pic is real. (I have always thought it was real). To support the pic being real:
It was sold to a major news media company. Proof it was sold: photographer's spoken videotaped statement and the photo appearing 6/26/09 on the cover of commercial magazines.
Upon inspection, no photoshop lines or irregularities are present.
The badges on the EMTs arms are the correct, current LAFD badge.
The equipment pictured in the back round of the ambulance interior is consistent with equipment inside ambulances at current, verified by currently employed paramedics.
The equipment being used on the "patient" is consistent with the situation, as verified by professionals currently employed in the field.
We have 3 separate video taped footages of the scene that day, from three different angles of the exact moment when the photographer takes these ambulance photos through the side window by pressing the camera against the glass. By using both films, the entire sequence of events can be witnessed from start to finish.
The reflection visible in the photo is consistant with the scene on video.
To support the pic being fake:
Brian Oxman said he was "95% sure it was most likely photoshopped." This means he is speculating.
...and that's it really. The most logical conclusion that can be reached when considering all of the information is MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ doesn't indicate that the photo is a fake, MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ only suggests that the MJ is a fake.
Bec, on this I am not with you as to the scenery and the resulting video tapes and pictures. They are all contradicting each other. In one video you see pylones around the firetruck, in the next one they are gone, one tape has the tourist bus standing in the middle of the street aside the firetruck, one tape has them parked behind the red car. The reflection of the red car is not correct since the photographer is shooting while the ambulance is not exactly parallel to the Toyota. In one video the darkhaired guy is turning from the back door to run to his car (see also the "proof of the picture shooting"), in the other he's aside the blond (Chris Weiss) that presses his camera towards the side window.
The shadows on the garbage bins and street were different in shape and length in the different takes.
The last obvious proof of the picture manipulations is the comparison of the "old" picture and the "new" picture. The turn light on the red car slips from the exact middle of the tire to the left (where it should actually be placed). In one shot the bag in front of the EMT's leg is open, in the other it is closed - how's that feasible in a real shooting just milliseconds apart when the EMT's position is exactly the same? (see thread on the new ambulance pic) This is a very good photoshop job done. The red car is a Toyota Prius and may be belonging either to Michael or to Ben Evenstad who told a story about Michael taking his kids in it for a joyride.
This MIchael not being the current one?
Of course - here we meet again.
Michael was killed in many aspects in the first and the second trial.
I would imagine, he never was the same person again - leading to this documentary reality show - documenting at the same time while reveiling and showing reality.
In this we do accompany him on either side, being in the focus as his witnesses and advocates, his friends and documenting staff.
He's putting the spots sometimes on where we should look at and into and draw truth into daylight. We are the reporters that were not present at that time.
He's getting the healing and satisfaction these days he could not have then.
So the EMTs are lying on the stand. The pic is proof of that.
And we can't say oh well the ambulance ic is a fake.
If the ambulance pic is fake then Ben committed fraud. He SOLD that pic to ET for est. $500K. That's federal level fraud.
So ET hasn't filed fraud complaints against Ben. No one in 19 months on the forum has been able to prove that pic is fake. No One.
I have to then draw the conclusion that the pic is real. (I have always thought it was real). To support the pic being real:
It was sold to a major news media company. Proof it was sold: photographer's spoken videotaped statement and the photo appearing 6/26/09 on the cover of commercial magazines.
Upon inspection, no photoshop lines or irregularities are present.
The badges on the EMTs arms are the correct, current LAFD badge.
The equipment pictured in the back round of the ambulance interior is consistent with equipment inside ambulances at current, verified by currently employed paramedics.
The equipment being used on the "patient" is consistent with the situation, as verified by professionals currently employed in the field.
We have 3 separate video taped footages of the scene that day, from three different angles of the exact moment when the photographer takes these ambulance photos through the side window by pressing the camera against the glass. By using both films, the entire sequence of events can be witnessed from start to finish.
The reflection visible in the photo is consistant with the scene on video.
To support the pic being fake:
Brian Oxman said he was "95% sure it was most likely photoshopped." This means he is speculating.
...and that's it really. The most logical conclusion that can be reached when considering all of the information is MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ doesn't indicate that the photo is a fake, MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ only suggests that the MJ is a fake.
Bec, on this I am not with you as to the scenery and the resulting video tapes and pictures. They are all contradicting each other. In one video you see pylones around the firetruck, in the next one they are gone This is a result of out-of-sequence editing. The ending of the footage is cut and pasted from the beginning of the events. Someone cut the beginning and placed it at the end. I have reviewed the tapes extensively and this is clear from the footage. At the end of the tape (beginning) we see the part of the footage where the Fireman is setting up the cones and the tour bus has just arrived., one tape has the tourist bus standing in the middle of the street aside the firetruck, one tape has them parked behind the red car This is simply caused by perspective, ie where the camera is located. The part in the footage that shows this is blurry, fast moving, and the camera is bouncing around because the man holding it is running. The view you are refering to is the result of one captured frame which is obscurred by rapid movement and is not clear. Regardless, I reviewed it as well and do not see clear evidence of this discrepancy. . The reflection of the red car is not correct since the photographer is shooting while the ambulance is not exactly parallel to the Toyota. again, this is due to perspectives and angle of the shot. Reflections have a tricky habit of "bending" over metallic objects such as car hoods.In one video the darkhaired guy is turning from the back door to run to his car (see also the "proof of the picture shooting"), in the other he's aside the blond (Chris Weiss) that presses his camera towards the side window These are two different men. If you watch the tape over and over and over and keep your eye on each man as you view, it becomes quite clear, there are absolutely 100% sure two men that cross behind the ambulance as it backs out. One runs away from the scene, one runs around the side, and thus results in taking the photograph. One man is wearing shorts, the other is wearing long pants..
The shadows on the garbage bins and street were different in shape and length in the different takes. In an outdoor environment, there can and are multiple light sources that cause shadows to not always coincide with each other.
The last obvious proof of the picture manipulations is the comparison of the "old" picture and the "new" picture. The turn light on the red car slips from the exact middle of the tire to the left (where it should actually be placed).Again, talking about reflections of a reflection, which are tricky to nail down, predict, and determine where they "should" be when you are dealing with rounded metallic objects, windows, and camera angles all over the place. In one shot the bag in front of the EMT's leg is open, in the other it is closed - how's that feasible in a real shooting just milliseconds apart when the EMT's position is exactly the same? (see thread on the new ambulance pic)I'm all over that thread and I haven't seen this, would you do a pic thing here and illustrate what you mean about open bag vs. closed bag? This is a very good photoshop job done. The red car is a Toyota Prius and may be belonging either to Michael or to Ben Evenstad who told a story about Michael taking his kids in it for a joyride.Yeah but there's a lot of red Toyota Prius's in the world.
Just to reiterate so you don't miss it as you read, could you, Grace, show me what you mean about open vs. closed bag in the shots? Thanky!
Compare the lower side, right in the middle, in front of the leg.
The emergency kit shows its full metal head in one pic, in the other the reflection of the car gives the impression of a closed bag surrounding it.
Now you may say, of course, the movement of the vehicle caused this modification of the reflection. But this does not explain the shift of the turn light in comparison to the tire and torque (green square). And as I said, when the pictures were shot (see the "proof picture") the ambulance was not standing in parallel to the parked red car but moving in the middle of the road in full sunshine.
About the videos: I've seen them all, I know about the cut and second part put at first place of the famous press video. The road was even blocked at the junction with Monovale.
There are many threads on those inconsistencies.
I don't mind if we don't agree on these details.
All of that "proof" doesn't fit and there's a good reason for it.
I'm wondering if this re-direct also has something to do with the timings. The title of the article is Jackson Time of Death a Mystery. And we have another TMZ article today titled Dr. Conrad Murray - Winning 'em Over One at a Time. Plus all these contradictory timings coming out at the prelim, maybe there is more to be examined there?
the evolution of the theory continues, approaching 7, plus 1 day of simmering. The mOMENT of many is apparent as time has become the focal point. Time is obsolete compared to the mOMENT, but it is essentially the only barrier between NOW and THEN.
back, MJJC, 8/25/2006, (bold added by me) this is the famous 7 Day Theory post that predicts the death date:
tHE SUN RISES amidst the clouds, breaking the thickest of the wild blue yonder's momentary scab. It's a brighter day once the scab fickles and dissapates to matter. As the earth continues its' axis rotation, day to night, night to day, the human beings of said planet witness the continuance of the trance we call time. Time is of the essence, so they say. Time is the checkmate of life. Forever spinning in this globe-cast of many different elements there comes a tIME, when time itself takes a backseat to the mOMENT. We, as intelligent beings, decipher and chose when to allow the moment to suspend time. As with the Killuminatti, iN tHEORY, 72 hours previous the logic of a mOment etched within a 7 day theory, is possible, but only tIme will tell. Some things aren't meant for easy translation. But over tIme, it's possible to clearly see the light, if the mOMENT warrants. As the world turns, and the clock spins indefinatly, tick tock tick tock, kEEp track of time and please KEEP WATCHIN'..............
Well suddenly this back post I've poured over trying to decipher makes some sense. He says "time" 9 ...er... times. The hair just stood up on the back of my neck a little I admit.
I'm thinking so. I think that maybe TIME has much more to do with this than the real body/fake body debate. The re-direct hasn't changed yet when it had been regularly the few days following up to this one. Maybe waiting for us to catch up? Ironic though, considering we could be running out of time, like Bec suggested.
@bec...I've been pouring over BACK's posts again lately as well and I can say that I, too, have had many 'hair standing on end moments' <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> There's a wealth of info in his posts and lots of what was confusing about his posts is definitely starting to make sense.
About the 'time' issue and its significance...I came across this post from another site and I thought it was pretty interesting...might tie in with BACK's underlying message of 'time' and perhaps the 'suspending of time'.
They were discussing the M2KV on the picket fence behind Murray....Credit goes to kaleidoscope:
It is all about the 2005 trial that Michael was subjected to unjustly.
I don't know, but perhaps the Murray trial will find Murray "not guilty" based on the fact that Michael was already "dead." Michael "died"on June 13th 2005, at 2:25 in the afternoon, the date and time that the not guilty verdict was read. He may not have died physically, however, the trial killed his beautiful and innocent soul.
Both the date and the time that the verdict was read in 2005, are important in the Murray trial. If we remember back to when Jermaine announced that Michael, "the king of pop," died, he made a point of saying that he "died" at 2:26 in the afternoon. This is one minute after the time at which the not-guilty verdict was read in 2005. Dr. Murray's first court appearance in Los Angeles was on June 14th, which is one day after the June 13th date on which the not-guilty verdict was announced in 2005. Michael's family members were in attendance at Dr. Murray's first court appearance, and they wore the exact same clothing that they wore the first day that Michael was in court. Coincidence? I don't think so.
If you look very closely at that picture with Murray and the paisley tie, you can see several hidden images, faces and masks, in the tie, the tree bark, and the greenery around the tree.
Pretty interesting take...perhaps a closer look at the 2005 timeline would be useful?
It is all about the 2005 trial that Michael was subjected to unjustly.
I don't know, but perhaps the Murray trial will find Murray "not guilty" based on the fact that Michael was already "dead." Michael "died"on June 13th 2005, at 2:25 in the afternoon, the date and time that the not guilty verdict was read. He may not have died physically, however, the trial killed his beautiful and innocent soul.
Both the date and the time that the verdict was read in 2005, are important in the Murray trial. If we remember back to when Jermaine announced that Michael, "the king of pop," died, he made a point of saying that he "died" at 2:26 in the afternoon. This is one minute after the time at which the not-guilty verdict was read in 2005. Dr. Murray's first court appearance in Los Angeles was on June 14th, which is one day after the June 13th date on which the not-guilty verdict was announced in 2005. Michael's family members were in attendance at Dr. Murray's first court appearance, and they wore the exact same clothing that they wore the first day that Michael was in court. Coincidence? I don't think so.
If you look very closely at that picture with Murray and the paisley tie, you can see several hidden images, faces and masks, in the tie, the tree bark, and the greenery around the tree.
Pretty interesting take...perhaps a closer look at the 2005 timeline would be useful?
With L.O.V.E. always.
I think 2005 is pretty significant too and it is VERY coincidental that there appear to be so many parallels between the two cases.
From Wikipedia, here are the "note worthy" court dates of People Vs. Jackson:
Court dates
2005
* January 31 – Jury selection begins.
* February 24 – Jurors and alternates seated.
* February 28, March 1 – Opening statements begin.
* March 1 – Prosecution testimony begins.
* May 4 – Prosecution rests.
* May 5 – Defense testimony begins.
* May 25 – Defense rests/prosecution rebuttal begins.
* May 27 – Prosecution rebuttal ends/defense offers no rebuttal.
* June 1 – Jury gets instructions.
* June 2, June 3 – Closing arguments.
* June 13 – Verdict delivered.
As of April 15, 2005, all weekdays from February 28, 2005 were court days, except:
* March 31– César Chávez Day (holiday)
* April 6 – funeral of Johnnie Cochran
* May 30 – Memorial Day
A few court days were without jury and without Jackson. On these days motions were discussed and ruled about. These were on March 11 and 18, and the first part of March 28.
There were also several days in which Michael Jackson was unable to attend. These are:
* February 15 – Questioning of potential jurors was postponed until February 22, after Jackson was hospitalized with flu like symptoms.
* March 21 – Court was delayed for 45 minutes, after Jackson showed up late again complaining of back trouble. After meeting with attorneys and the doctor, Melville resumed the court into session without threatening to revoke Jackson's bail.
Verdict
At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005 the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty of all of the charges he had been accused with.
@bec...I've been pouring over BACK's posts again lately as well and I can say that I, too, have had many 'hair standing on end moments' <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> There's a wealth of info in his posts and lots of what was confusing about his posts is definitely starting to make sense.
About the 'time' issue and its significance...I came across this post from another site and I thought it was pretty interesting...might tie in with BACK's underlying message of 'time' and perhaps the 'suspending of time'.
They were discussing the M2KV on the picket fence behind Murray....Credit goes to kaleidoscope:
It is all about the 2005 trial that Michael was subjected to unjustly.
I don't know, but perhaps the Murray trial will find Murray "not guilty" based on the fact that Michael was already "dead." Michael "died"on June 13th 2005, at 2:25 in the afternoon, the date and time that the not guilty verdict was read. He may not have died physically, however, the trial killed his beautiful and innocent soul.
Both the date and the time that the verdict was read in 2005, are important in the Murray trial. If we remember back to when Jermaine announced that Michael, "the king of pop," died, he made a point of saying that he "died" at 2:26 in the afternoon. This is one minute after the time at which the not-guilty verdict was read in 2005. Dr. Murray's first court appearance in Los Angeles was on June 14th, which is one day after the June 13th date on which the not-guilty verdict was announced in 2005. Michael's family members were in attendance at Dr. Murray's first court appearance, and they wore the exact same clothing that they wore the first day that Michael was in court. Coincidence? I don't think so.
If you look very closely at that picture with Murray and the paisley tie, you can see several hidden images, faces and masks, in the tie, the tree bark, and the greenery around the tree.
Pretty interesting take...perhaps a closer look at the 2005 timeline would be useful?
With L.O.V.E. always.
Fascinating. Wonderful compilation, BeTheChange.
The minute the trial was over, and he still faced the stigma of assumed guilt, yes, indeed, I believe you are accurate in your metaphors, MJ died.
Which accounts for the discrepancy in the date, June13th-June 25th. The 25th fits the numerology. 12 days later. The time hearkens back to the 2005 trial...
Holy Shit.
"We have 4 Years to get it right". That has nothing to do with the end of the world, or 4 years from now... that's 4 years from the verdict to the hoax. 4 years to get IT right, and then This Is IT.
Also, because I coppied these dates back in November and have them post it noted to my desk:
11/18/04 Neverland searched for the second time
11/20/04 MJ arrested and booked
11/23/04 Fans held a vigile for MJ's release from charges
11/25/04 MJs jet was illegally wiretapped and MJ was secretly recorded in convos with his lawyers while in flight
12/18/04 MJ formally charged with 9 counts
I have also been looking at dates as I previously posted in another thread.
November 20, 2003 - MJ Arrested
December 18, 2003 - Charged 7 counts molestation 2 counts intoxicating agent to a minor
January 16, 2004 - Arraignment
March 2004 - Grand Jury convened
April 21, 2004 - Indictment
April 30, 2004 - 2nd Indictment
January 31, 2005 - Jury selection starts
February 28, 2005 - Trial starts
June 13, 2005 @2:25 Verdict is read; Not Guilty
And something else that just popped out at me is the Hot Air Balloon Hoax!!
Janet Arvizo (Gavin's Mother) insisted that Jackson's associates wanted to keep them there (at Neverland) because of the negative impact of Bashir's documentary on Jackson's image, and, due to damage control, that they were forced to stay to film a rebuttal documentary. Her plan to escape Neverland by hot air balloon was met with widespread laughter in the courtroom.
Also, because I coppied these dates back in November and have them post it noted to my desk:
11/18/04 Neverland searched for the second time
11/20/04 MJ arrested and booked
11/23/04 Fans held a vigile for MJ's release from charges
11/25/04 MJs jet was illegally wiretapped and MJ was secretly recorded in convos with his lawyers while in flight
12/18/04 MJ formally charged with 9 counts
I have also been looking at dates as I previously posted in another thread.
November 20, 2003 - MJ Arrested
December 18, 2003 - Charged 7 counts molestation 2 counts intoxicating agent to a minor
January 16, 2004 - Arraignment
March 2004 - Grand Jury convened
April 21, 2004 - Indictment
April 30, 2004 - 2nd Indictment
January 31, 2005 - Jury selection starts
February 28, 2005 - Trial starts
June 13, 2005 @2:25 Verdict is read; Not Guilty
Oh geez boy did I get the years all wrong, darn it, I only have the month/days on the post-it so I assumed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> Sorry and thanks for the correction SD.
Also, because I coppied these dates back in November and have them post it noted to my desk:
11/18/04 Neverland searched for the second time
11/20/04 MJ arrested and booked
11/23/04 Fans held a vigile for MJ's release from charges
11/25/04 MJs jet was illegally wiretapped and MJ was secretly recorded in convos with his lawyers while in flight
12/18/04 MJ formally charged with 9 counts
I have also been looking at dates as I previously posted in another thread.
November 20, 2003 - MJ Arrested
December 18, 2003 - Charged 7 counts molestation 2 counts intoxicating agent to a minor
January 16, 2004 - Arraignment
March 2004 - Grand Jury convened
April 21, 2004 - Indictment
April 30, 2004 - 2nd Indictment
January 31, 2005 - Jury selection starts
February 28, 2005 - Trial starts
June 13, 2005 @2:25 Verdict is read; Not Guilty
Oh geez boy did I get the years all wrong, darn it, I only have the month/days on the post-it so I assumed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> Sorry and thanks for the correction SD.
Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I thought it was interesting that we were all looking at the same things! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
You're welcome anyway though <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
And something else that just popped out at me is the Hot Air Balloon Hoax!!
Janet Arvizo (Gavin's Mother) insisted that Jackson's associates wanted to keep them there (at Neverland) because of the negative impact of Bashir's documentary on Jackson's image, and, due to damage control, that they were forced to stay to film a rebuttal documentary. Her plan to escape Neverland by hot air balloon was met with widespread laughter in the courtroom.
MJ's Neverland Ride Knows the Way to San Jose 12/9/2010 5:15 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson Anniversary Plans -- Denied! 6/22/2010 12:23 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
A rep for Forest Lawn -- where MJ is buried -- tells TMZ fans will be allowed into the park on June 25, but not into the mausoleum itself. And the news ain't so good for these special requests:
- Releasing doves (DENIED) - Releasing balloons (DENIED)
- Performing Jackson songs and dance routines (DENIED) http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/22/michael-jackson-anniversary-june-25-forest-lawn-cemetery-plans/
Comments
I agree with you Bec - all the way. I feel Michael (and TS) wants us to look OUTSIDE the box - and not just outside the box with our noses pressed right up against it either <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> In this hoax, things are never as they first appear to be. We have been witnessing a very clever display of the art of illusion - something that has never been attempted on such a large scale. That's my spin on it anyway, but of course I don't expect people to see it how I see it. We should all rejoice in our own individuality and this is exactly what has made Michael stand out from the crowd from the time he was born. Love, peace & blessings, emerald xo
Yes.
So the EMTs are lying on the stand. The pic is proof of that.
And we can't say oh well the ambulance ic is a fake.
If the ambulance pic is fake then Ben committed fraud. He SOLD that pic to ET for est. $500K. That's federal level fraud.
So ET hasn't filed fraud complaints against Ben. No one in 19 months on the forum has been able to prove that pic is fake. No One.
I have to then draw the conclusion that the pic is real. (I have always thought it was real). To support the pic being real:
It was sold to a major news media company. Proof it was sold: photographer's spoken videotaped statement and the photo appearing 6/26/09 on the cover of commercial magazines.
Upon inspection, no photoshop lines or irregularities are present.
The badges on the EMTs arms are the correct, current LAFD badge.
The equipment pictured in the back round of the ambulance interior is consistent with equipment inside ambulances at current, verified by currently employed paramedics.
The equipment being used on the "patient" is consistent with the situation, as verified by professionals currently employed in the field.
We have 3 separate video taped footages of the scene that day, from three different angles of the exact moment when the photographer takes these ambulance photos through the side window by pressing the camera against the glass. By using both films, the entire sequence of events can be witnessed from start to finish.
The reflection visible in the photo is consistant with the scene on video.
To support the pic being fake:
Brian Oxman said he was "95% sure it was most likely photoshopped." This means he is speculating.
...and that's it really. The most logical conclusion that can be reached when considering all of the information is MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ doesn't indicate that the photo is a fake, MJ looking like mid-1980's MJ only suggests that the MJ is a fake.
Well it's just theories about what happened on that day and how it happened. And still the dead body in the room makes sense to me. Not everyone can be in on the hoax. Paramedics could be telling the truth about how they couldn't recognize MJ or how he looked like an Asian guy. It is still no hard to find a body who died a couple of hours earlier. Maybe your theory is right but still mine makes perfect sense to me. This is fiction in reality and reality in fiction and some of the things we see are the reality in fiction part of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. It is important to make the difference btw the two.
This TMZ article from 2009 is really, really full of horrible misinformation. I did about 15 min of internet research and really, copying and pasting for this post took longer then just reading the various articles written on the subject. Whoever wrote this article and all the others just like it obviously just put into quotes what one person says and calls it an article, no research, not even a Google search.
We cannot get side tracked by this stuff guys. It's not true what they're trying to paint as reality.
All this boils down to: don't believe what you read- research and inquire yourself and you will find facts.
Bec, on this I am not with you as to the scenery and the resulting video tapes and pictures. They are all contradicting each other. In one video you see pylones around the firetruck, in the next one they are gone, one tape has the tourist bus standing in the middle of the street aside the firetruck, one tape has them parked behind the red car. The reflection of the red car is not correct since the photographer is shooting while the ambulance is not exactly parallel to the Toyota. In one video the darkhaired guy is turning from the back door to run to his car (see also the "proof of the picture shooting"), in the other he's aside the blond (Chris Weiss) that presses his camera towards the side window.
The shadows on the garbage bins and street were different in shape and length in the different takes.
The last obvious proof of the picture manipulations is the comparison of the "old" picture and the "new" picture. The turn light on the red car slips from the exact middle of the tire to the left (where it should actually be placed). In one shot the bag in front of the EMT's leg is open, in the other it is closed - how's that feasible in a real shooting just milliseconds apart when the EMT's position is exactly the same? (see thread on the new ambulance pic) This is a very good photoshop job done. The red car is a Toyota Prius and may be belonging either to Michael or to Ben Evenstad who told a story about Michael taking his kids in it for a joyride.
This MIchael not being the current one?
Of course - here we meet again.
Michael was killed in many aspects in the first and the second trial.
I would imagine, he never was the same person again - leading to this documentary reality show - documenting at the same time while reveiling and showing reality.
In this we do accompany him on either side, being in the focus as his witnesses and advocates, his friends and documenting staff.
He's putting the spots sometimes on where we should look at and into and draw truth into daylight. We are the reporters that were not present at that time.
He's getting the healing and satisfaction these days he could not have then.
God bless.
Just to reiterate so you don't miss it as you read, could you, Grace, show me what you mean about open vs. closed bag in the shots? Thanky!
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=17127
Compare the lower side, right in the middle, in front of the leg.
The emergency kit shows its full metal head in one pic, in the other the reflection of the car gives the impression of a closed bag surrounding it.
Now you may say, of course, the movement of the vehicle caused this modification of the reflection. But this does not explain the shift of the turn light in comparison to the tire and torque (green square). And as I said, when the pictures were shot (see the "proof picture") the ambulance was not standing in parallel to the parked red car but moving in the middle of the road in full sunshine.
About the videos: I've seen them all, I know about the cut and second part put at first place of the famous press video. The road was even blocked at the junction with Monovale.
There are many threads on those inconsistencies.
I don't mind if we don't agree on these details.
All of that "proof" doesn't fit and there's a good reason for it.
God bless.
100% agreed and that's the bottom line, isn't it?
back, MJJC, 8/25/2006, (bold added by me) this is the famous 7 Day Theory post that predicts the death date:
Well suddenly this back post I've poured over trying to decipher makes some sense. He says "time" 9 ...er... times. The hair just stood up on the back of my neck a little I admit.
Keep track of time.
I'm thinking so. I think that maybe TIME has much more to do with this than the real body/fake body debate. The re-direct hasn't changed yet when it had been regularly the few days following up to this one. Maybe waiting for us to catch up? Ironic though, considering we could be running out of time, like Bec suggested.
About the 'time' issue and its significance...I came across this post from another site and I thought it was pretty interesting...might tie in with BACK's underlying message of 'time' and perhaps the 'suspending of time'.
They were discussing the M2KV on the picket fence behind Murray....Credit goes to kaleidoscope:
It is all about the 2005 trial that Michael was subjected to unjustly.
I don't know, but perhaps the Murray trial will find Murray "not guilty" based on the fact that Michael was already "dead." Michael "died"on June 13th 2005, at 2:25 in the afternoon, the date and time that the not guilty verdict was read. He may not have died physically, however, the trial killed his beautiful and innocent soul.
Both the date and the time that the verdict was read in 2005, are important in the Murray trial. If we remember back to when Jermaine announced that Michael, "the king of pop," died, he made a point of saying that he "died" at 2:26 in the afternoon. This is one minute after the time at which the not-guilty verdict was read in 2005. Dr. Murray's first court appearance in Los Angeles was on June 14th, which is one day after the June 13th date on which the not-guilty verdict was announced in 2005. Michael's family members were in attendance at Dr. Murray's first court appearance, and they wore the exact same clothing that they wore the first day that Michael was in court. Coincidence? I don't think so.
If you look very closely at that picture with Murray and the paisley tie, you can see several hidden images, faces and masks, in the tie, the tree bark, and the greenery around the tree.
Pretty interesting take...perhaps a closer look at the 2005 timeline would be useful?
With L.O.V.E. always.
I think 2005 is pretty significant too and it is VERY coincidental that there appear to be so many parallels between the two cases.
From Wikipedia, here are the "note worthy" court dates of People Vs. Jackson:
Court dates
2005
* January 31 – Jury selection begins.
* February 24 – Jurors and alternates seated.
* February 28, March 1 – Opening statements begin.
* March 1 – Prosecution testimony begins.
* May 4 – Prosecution rests.
* May 5 – Defense testimony begins.
* May 25 – Defense rests/prosecution rebuttal begins.
* May 27 – Prosecution rebuttal ends/defense offers no rebuttal.
* June 1 – Jury gets instructions.
* June 2, June 3 – Closing arguments.
* June 13 – Verdict delivered.
As of April 15, 2005, all weekdays from February 28, 2005 were court days, except:
* March 31– César Chávez Day (holiday)
* April 6 – funeral of Johnnie Cochran
* May 30 – Memorial Day
A few court days were without jury and without Jackson. On these days motions were discussed and ruled about. These were on March 11 and 18, and the first part of March 28.
There were also several days in which Michael Jackson was unable to attend. These are:
* February 15 – Questioning of potential jurors was postponed until February 22, after Jackson was hospitalized with flu like symptoms.
* March 21 – Court was delayed for 45 minutes, after Jackson showed up late again complaining of back trouble. After meeting with attorneys and the doctor, Melville resumed the court into session without threatening to revoke Jackson's bail.
Verdict
At approximately 2:25pm PDT (21:25 UTC) on June 13, 2005 the jury of the Superior Court of the State of California, held in and for the County of Santa Barbara, determined that Jackson was not guilty of all of the charges he had been accused with.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson<!-- m -->
So what other coincidences are to be found?
http://www.zshare.net/audio/81024806221bb940/
Fascinating. Wonderful compilation, BeTheChange.
The minute the trial was over, and he still faced the stigma of assumed guilt, yes, indeed, I believe you are accurate in your metaphors, MJ died.
Which accounts for the discrepancy in the date, June13th-June 25th. The 25th fits the numerology. 12 days later. The time hearkens back to the 2005 trial...
Holy Shit.
"We have 4 Years to get it right". That has nothing to do with the end of the world, or 4 years from now... that's 4 years from the verdict to the hoax. 4 years to get IT right, and then This Is IT.
11/18/04 Neverland searched for the second time
11/20/04 MJ arrested and booked
11/23/04 Fans held a vigile for MJ's release from charges
11/25/04 MJs jet was illegally wiretapped and MJ was secretly recorded in convos with his lawyers while in flight
12/18/04 MJ formally charged with 9 counts
November 20, 2003 - MJ Arrested
December 18, 2003 - Charged 7 counts molestation 2 counts intoxicating agent to a minor
January 16, 2004 - Arraignment
March 2004 - Grand Jury convened
April 21, 2004 - Indictment
April 30, 2004 - 2nd Indictment
January 31, 2005 - Jury selection starts
February 28, 2005 - Trial starts
June 13, 2005 @2:25 Verdict is read; Not Guilty
Janet Arvizo (Gavin's Mother) insisted that Jackson's associates wanted to keep them there (at Neverland) because of the negative impact of Bashir's documentary on Jackson's image, and, due to damage control, that they were forced to stay to film a rebuttal documentary. Her plan to escape Neverland by hot air balloon was met with widespread laughter in the courtroom.
Oh geez boy did I get the years all wrong, darn it, I only have the month/days on the post-it so I assumed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> Sorry and thanks for the correction SD.
You're welcome anyway though <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s
MJ's Neverland Ride Knows the Way to San Jose
12/9/2010 5:15 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch "Balloon Samba" ride has turned up in San Jose.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/12/09/neverland-michael-jackson-balloon-samba-san-jose-fair/
Dr. Conrad Murray -- Winning 'em Over One at a Time
1/9/2011 1:00 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray has a bit of a PR problem these days -- and since people don't just let you walk up and kiss their baby anymore, he did the next best thing ... he bought a little girl a BALLOON.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/09/conrad-murray-balloon-child-gift-santa-monica-michael-jackson-manslaughter-preliminary-hearing/
Michael Jackson Anniversary Plans -- Denied!
6/22/2010 12:23 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
A rep for Forest Lawn -- where MJ is buried -- tells TMZ fans will be allowed into the park on June 25, but not into the mausoleum itself. And the news ain't so good for these special requests:
- Releasing doves (DENIED)
- Releasing balloons (DENIED)
- Performing Jackson songs and dance routines (DENIED)
http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/22/michael-jackson-anniversary-june-25-forest-lawn-cemetery-plans/