So we have to focus on 2 things; the hows of the hoax and some of the people in it.
So I am guessing from what we've seen Ben is apart of the hoax.
The paramedics I don't think are as they could not recognize MJ as they thought it was an old man but they were definitely working on a person. So I am guessing someone did die that day or it was a dummy which would mean the paramedics would be in the hoax too (but I doubt they are).
When Ben said; "the other day" maybe photos were taken the day before June 25th that were staged like in a set (which one of you already mentioned). So Ben returned on June 25th when someone would died.
He then came back on June 25th to take more pictures to make it look like he got the actual pictures of MJ in the ambulance to say he was there that day (but maybe he did not use these pictures that he took on June 25th, who even knows that these photos are any good).
I don't think the red car is significant but it is probably there for a reason.Maybe for the others that were around the area it would prove that Ben was there that day as the red car was there.
You can see in the video of the interior of the ambulance camilla not at the level of the window, this below, the photographer " should have tilted the camera to obtain that photo ". You can see that this stopped with the camara pointing directly, not if i mean well.
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I see a word where the leaf pattern is on Ambulance2. I don't want to say which word so as not to influence what word you see. I took a screenshot but I'm unable to upload it due to some issues of quota. Oh, hi everyone, nice to meet you, glad to be here. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
If your talking about the words near the pattern...I think I see a 'X' or 'H' or both...nice to meet you too.
So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately. Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed. His art is amazing and unique. Just type in Banksy on google images. He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not. It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask! But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist. It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something. I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.
And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.
Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.[/quote]
Banksy was told he wasn't allowed to wear a disguise so he declined to show up. I was talking about him in the dodo thread the other day, I reckon they'd get on well! As for the photo I've tried cropping, flipping, backlighting, filtering, etc on the leaves/face pattern and the only thing I know for sure is that my eyes are like this... <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I don't think it is actually leaves now after staring at it so long. Though the fact that it resembles leaves on first glance may be all that was required. As for seeing a word paulnotpeter, I can't make it out. But then my eyes are shot after all this close scrutiny! Welcome, by the way! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Banksy was told he wasn't allowed to wear a disguise so he declined to show up. I was talking about him in the dodo thread the other day, I reckon they'd get on well! As for the photo I've tried cropping, flipping, backlighting, filtering, etc on the leaves/face pattern and the only thing I know for sure is that my eyes are like this... <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I don't think it is actually leaves now after staring at it so long. Though the fact that it resembles leaves on first glance may be all that was required. As for seeing a word paulnotpeter, I can't make it out. But then my eyes are shot after all this close scrutiny! Welcome, by the way! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Yep I know what you were getting at. I just thought I'd throw this in as it's funny that this artist (which MJ is) is unknown in his identity and also wanted to wear a mask!! Wonder where his idea came from <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
If the leaf pattern was inside the ambulance, was the photo taken beforehand and with the pic ready to go, Ben and friend were acting on the 25th? I can't reconcile this shot of a youthful MJ on the gurney with what we've been told from the ambo's, that he looked like a bald, frail old hospice patient who they didn't recognize. Not according to my eyes. In fact he looks to have discovered the fountain of youth and turned back time to 1989. Now if perchance that ambulance at Carolwood on the 25th had the leaf mosiac forming a collage of MJ faces within the one larger face which is another when reversed [ whose a clever artist then?] it would mean that the paramedics are also a part of this hoax as any functioning professional vehicle would not have that on their drawer/wall. And what time precisely was it that Michael had long gone....to the airport.
Right here I want to add my disclaimer: that at any time I am free to change my mind on said theory and adopt a more plausible line of reasoning.
TS ever since we started noticing faces and strange goings on within TMZ posted pictures , I have really really really wanted to know why. I am asking why? What is the purpose and why so much effort invested in something so few recognize. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Okay.. I can hear the cogs in my brain grinding to a halt for now.
I really love the fact that TS is giving us believers a advanced peek at somethings that may be brought up at the trial,when the truth finally reveals itself to the money hungry people who wanted to put this trial on television for the whole world to see. I also do not think the photo is a photoshoped , I have a feeling it was a set, maybe filmed at culver studios some time before"DOME project"?,just a guess. If we are a month away from the BAM and TS will continue to break this down like this till the trial"the greatest show" begins. I anxiously await the truth about,how the greatest hoax in the history of man was pulled off. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> They bought it hook, line, and sinker,because it was all for the MONEY. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Starline Tourists See Jackson Drama Unfold
Originally posted Jun 26th 2009 5:05 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
A bus full of tourists thought they were driving up a fancy street to look at Michael Jackson's front gate. Instead, they witnessed the last moments of Michael Jackson's life.
Thirteen stunned people aboard a Starline Tours bus saw the King of Pop being whisked to the hospital, in full cardiac arrest. You hear the tour guide cryptically say, "This is Michael Jackson's estate, everyone. So we'll find out later in the news what happened."
That video shows a better angle of the ambulance backing out. It shows where the red shirt guy was and it shows how long he could have been standing at the side window to get the shot inside of the ambulance. Also the picture can be taken through the glass even though it is dark tint. It can be done by the angle the camera is positioned.
Tips and Tricks: Glass and Reflections
Photos Through Glass
Need to try and take a photo through glass? There are a few ways to do it. The general rule of thumb is to shoot at an oblique 45 degree angle to the glass. If you absolutely must use a flash, this will help keep it from blowing back into the camera and creating that big white glare.
The second option is to use a rotating "polarizing filter". This is a filter you screw on to the end of your lens. It is generally used to help enhance the sky in photographs, but can also do an amazing job of eliminating reflections - just rotate it until the reflections are minimized and shoot away!
Another common problem when trying to take photographs through or of glass windows or objects is reflections. While in most cases it is difficult to completely get rid of all reflections, and almost impossible when outdoors, you can improve the quality of the image by making sure you are not an accidental subject or that the reflection is somewhat minimized by adjusting your angle. This can be either by moving horizontally or by adjusting the height of the camera to the object.
Experimentation with angles or by taking images at multiple angles will help ensure you have an acceptable image to print or work with.
PLEASE disregard my last post I made a mistake this is what i meant to say.
I really love the fact that TS is giving us believers a advanced peek at somethings that may be brought up at the trial,when the truth finally reveals itself to the money hungry people who wanted to put this trial on television for the whole world to see. I also think the photo is photoshopped,Because TMZ for awhile was showing us how a photo that was regular could look the same but have many little things added,they did that to quite a few photos saying can you spot the differences,If we are a month away from the BAM and TS will continue to break this down like this till the trial"the greatest show" begins. I will anxiously await the truth about,how the greatest hoax in the history of man was pulled off. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> They bought it hook, line, and sinker,because it was all for the MONEY. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I'm new with this stuff with the hoax and all. I don't have any experience but from what I've seen from another people and their clues and thoughts. I wanted to share this with you.Has anybody seen something wierd about this photo? It's an interview with Ben, the photographer. It sais RIP KING backwords behind his back on a piece of paper. What does that suppose to mean?
I think of it this way. RIP = Rest In Peace....but PIR ??? PIR = Peace In Rest....maybe it's related to the hoax I don't know...like it's telling us Michael needs PEACE in his REST ( read: faking his death ) . Do you agree? Tell me what you think.
L.O.V.E.
First of all I wanna say Hi...I remember on another thread this was mentioned but I cant remember where...but I have no idea what this means but I think it could be a clue to the hoax. Why its backwards is another thing.
Thanks TS but if we hit a dead end in a theory does tha mean its wrong?
I did see the pic your referring to when I watched the video. The paper is taped from the other side of the window. Most likely it was wrote with a sharpie pen which will show through paper and can be seen from the other side of a window.
Does that make sense?
Peace
Hy, thanks for taking the time to reply me. It could be the case, but then why is it taped on the outside? It doesn't make sence to me that that piece of paper is taped on the OUTSIDE of the room, or whatever it is. Looking forward to your reply.
L.O.V.E.
Well I am just guessing here, the paper is on the outside because whoever put it there did it that way. LOL sorry I don't know for sure because I wasn't there.
I just figured it is on the outside of the window and that is why the wording is backwards.
I think these have to be a series of photoshopped pictures. The leaf pattern is not the same in each one and the pattern is not 'on' the cupboard but appears to be in one plane where it crosses over the dark handle shape (close-up and Ambulance1).
Actually, none of the shadows seem to make sense in the way they fall against objects. The shadows along arms and legs seem to have a life of their own. In the Ambulance1 picture, the shadow from the left knee and lower leg of the closest guy is partially changed to red along the exact area of the shadow where it hits the blue headrest. The shadow should cause that area to be darker so how does a red reflection show more clearly and sharply exactly in place of the shadow?
I keep looking from pic to pic at the right leg and knee of the same guy - there is something is very odd about that leg. In the last picture a dark shape can be seen cutting across and obscuring the lower part of his right leg. What is that? It doesn't seem to be a the right height to be the edge of a flat gurney.
The lights on the car change size between A1 and A2 - is it proportional to the small change in the distance? As for the red car it just seems too large in each picture to to be at the distance it is supposed to be from the ambulance.
I can't see how, the gurney, the ambulance window, a photographer and the car were ever positioned for this photo to have been taken. Can anyone here prove that they were - using the videos we've seen?
Elsa wrote: I can't see how, the gurney, the ambulance window, a photographer and the car were ever positioned for this photo to have been taken. Can anyone here prove that they were using the videos we've seen?
Displaying the video of the interior of the ambulance is that the camilla not this at the level of the window, this below, the paramedico makes ! Bad ! The atus this inclined, how the photographer gets that photo without tilt the camera?
So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately. Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed. His art is amazing and unique. Just type in Banksy on google images. He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not. It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask! But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist. It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something. I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.
And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.
Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.
Fascinating this Banksy, thanks for suggesting him. In this nominated film there is a lot of Michaelisms, though I know it's not MJ. As in bullets shooting around the intro logo, monkeys, rats and secret romance and more.
[youtube:u6lqcg3r]
I think that even if the explanation was given to me now, I would not understand it <!-- s --><!-- s --> and i'm wondering how this can convince non-believers? Well is it possible that they enhanced the colours on some pixels on that door so as to make it look like leaves? It would finally not be photoshopped? nor part of the secondary image and not really part of the interior design but rather a kind of illusion? I don't know if it's possible because of the shadows... (I'm crazy btw LOL just throwing what's in my mind).
I think that even if the explanation was given to me now, I would not understand it and i'm wondering how this can convince non-believers? Well is it possible that they enhanced the colours on some pixels on that door so as to make it look like leaves? It would finally not be photoshopped? nor part of the secondary image and not really part of the interior design but rather a kind of illusion? I don't know if it's possible because of the shadows... (I'm crazy btw LOL just throwing what's in my mind).
I just want to say, I apoligise for my last post reply. I think people (luckily) ignored it anyway, but it was wrong of me. I was tired and I couldn't think straight. I'm really sorry. Maybe I just got frustrated with the game because I was stuck on that one level. But this isn't just MY game, perhaps I wasn't realizing that. It's worldwide and it's big.
Now, about the picture, I think it's photoshopped, the badges have been added on, for starters. I don't think I see a face in there, but I think the leaves (or what look like leaves) signify that it's photoshopped. It kind of looks like a floral pattern in a way..maybe like a netting? It could have a kind of symbolism but I'm not sure about that..
Also, yeah, this was possibly in a studio. Away from anyone to see it. Now, I'm just thinking, is Michael in that red car? Possibly..
Beside the eyes look at the difference between the equipment being used in the photo with MJ and the other photo posted with the anonymous person. The equipment in the MJ photo look way old and outdated compared to the ambulances that are used now days. That's another reason to believe the photo is old.
The MJ photo is NOT outdated. 100% is not. All ambulances are different inside. All of the equipment in that picture is very much current. I don't understand what people see as being old. Lifepak 12s are very new, the equipment they're using in general is all current (the ET tube, tube holder, veniguard, ETCO2, BVM, patches on the medics). Some of it my company uses now.
LadyMedic wrote:
And I have to say I do like what you're saying about the picture and the point I've been trying to make all along. Sure, this whole thing could be a hoax. But that does not mean that there is going to be error in everything they did. The ambulance photo, from the standpoint of a paramedic, is legit. As is the 911 call procedure. Does that mean it's MJ in the ambulance? No. But what they have done to the person/dummy/etc. is totally normal. And the equipment they're using is current.
The leaves are photoshopped into the picture. When you look at the background behind the leaves, you see a handle to open a cabin (see video of inside the ambulance). The leaves are continuing over it, and they are darker there, which means this should be a layer with an opacity of around 25% over the first layer (background). The EMT's and MJ/dummy are the third layer, put over the second layer with a 100% opacity, what explains the fact that the leaves are disappearing behind the sheet and the guy's arm. The next layer is the car/EMT bag. Maybe there are more, I would love to get the .psd... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Why is this subject so important?Isn't the " reason " more important?
OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?
I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Comments
So I am guessing from what we've seen Ben is apart of the hoax.
The paramedics I don't think are as they could not recognize MJ as they thought it was an old man but they were definitely working on a person. So I am guessing someone did die that day or it was a dummy which would mean the paramedics would be in the hoax too (but I doubt they are).
When Ben said; "the other day" maybe photos were taken the day before June 25th that were staged like in a set (which one of you already mentioned). So Ben returned on June 25th when someone would died.
He then came back on June 25th to take more pictures to make it look like he got the actual pictures of MJ in the ambulance to say he was there that day (but maybe he did not use these pictures that he took on June 25th, who even knows that these photos are any good).
I don't think the red car is significant but it is probably there for a reason.Maybe for the others that were around the area it would prove that Ben was there that day as the red car was there.
You can see in the video of the interior of the ambulance camilla not at the level of the window, this below, the photographer " should have tilted the camera to obtain that photo ". You can see that this stopped with the camara pointing directly, not if i mean well.
<!-- s
If your talking about the words near the pattern...I think I see a 'X' or 'H' or both...nice to meet you too.
Graffiti Artist Banksy Banned from Oscars
<!-- m -->http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110223/en_ ... m_oscars_1<!-- m -->
So the other thing that this photo makes me think of is the mysterious artist Banksy, who has been all over the L.A. area lately. Banksy is a graffiti artist who's identity has never been confirmed. His art is amazing and unique. Just type in Banksy on google images. He's even been nominated for an Oscar this year (this Sunday actually) for Best Documentary and he wanted to show up in a mask to keep his identity a secret but I'm not sure if he's allowed to or not. It would be so cool if he showed up in a Guy Fawkes mask! But back to the above photo, the hidden face (that I see anyways) looks like it's been drawn on, sketched on the photo somehow by an artist. It's reminiscent of Banksy's style or something. I hope I'm not the only one who sees that because if I am, maybe what I'm looking at isn't the same face others see.
And sometimes the pic looks like it's a photograph of the "actual" ambulance photo.
Thanks for the ambulance photo reminder - it has been making a comeback in recent months, as it should.[/quote]
Yep I know what you were getting at. I just thought I'd throw this in as it's funny that this artist (which MJ is) is unknown in his identity and also wanted to wear a mask!! Wonder where his idea came from <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Right here I want to add my disclaimer: that at any time I am free to change my mind on said theory and adopt a more plausible line of reasoning.
TS ever since we started noticing faces and strange goings on within TMZ posted pictures , I have really really really wanted to know why. I am asking why? What is the purpose and why so much effort invested in something so few recognize. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Okay.. I can hear the cogs in my brain grinding to a halt for now.
Yeah "yambo3003" I'm starting to get the same feeling! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> I have no doubt that it was photoshopped. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Originally posted Jun 26th 2009 5:05 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
A bus full of tourists thought they were driving up a fancy street to look at Michael Jackson's front gate. Instead, they witnessed the last moments of Michael Jackson's life.
Thirteen stunned people aboard a Starline Tours bus saw the King of Pop being whisked to the hospital, in full cardiac arrest. You hear the tour guide cryptically say, "This is Michael Jackson's estate, everyone. So we'll find out later in the news what happened."
<!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-j ... ine-tours/<!-- m -->
WATCH VIDEO: <!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true ... 3ef6573bd3<!-- m -->
That video shows a better angle of the ambulance backing out. It shows where the red shirt guy was and it shows how long he could have been standing at the side window to get the shot inside of the ambulance. Also the picture can be taken through the glass even though it is dark tint. It can be done by the angle the camera is positioned.
It can be done using certain lenses.
<!-- m -->http://www.homephotog.com/tips/photo-glass.shtml<!-- m -->
Peace
I really love the fact that TS is giving us believers a advanced peek at somethings that may be brought up at the trial,when the truth finally reveals itself to the money hungry people who wanted to put this trial on television for the whole world to see. I also think the photo is photoshopped,Because TMZ for awhile was showing us how a photo that was regular could look the same but have many little things added,they did that to quite a few photos saying can you spot the differences,If we are a month away from the BAM and TS will continue to break this down like this till the trial"the greatest show" begins. I will anxiously await the truth about,how the greatest hoax in the history of man was pulled off. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> They bought it hook, line, and sinker,because it was all for the MONEY. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I just figured it is on the outside of the window and that is why the wording is backwards.
Peace
I think these have to be a series of photoshopped pictures. The leaf pattern is not the same in each one and the pattern is not 'on' the cupboard but appears to be in one plane where it crosses over the dark handle shape (close-up and Ambulance1).
Actually, none of the shadows seem to make sense in the way they fall against objects. The shadows along arms and legs seem to have a life of their own. In the Ambulance1 picture, the shadow from the left knee and lower leg of the closest guy is partially changed to red along the exact area of the shadow where it hits the blue headrest. The shadow should cause that area to be darker so how does a red reflection show more clearly and sharply exactly in place of the shadow?
I keep looking from pic to pic at the right leg and knee of the same guy - there is something is very odd about that leg. In the last picture a dark shape can be seen cutting across and obscuring the lower part of his right leg. What is that? It doesn't seem to be a the right height to be the edge of a flat gurney.
The lights on the car change size between A1 and A2 - is it proportional to the small change in the distance? As for the red car it just seems too large in each picture to to be at the distance it is supposed to be from the ambulance.
I can't see how, the gurney, the ambulance window, a photographer and the car were ever positioned for this photo to have been taken. Can anyone here prove that they were - using the videos we've seen?
Displaying the video of the interior of the ambulance is that the camilla not this at the level of the window, this below, the paramedico makes ! Bad ! The atus this inclined, how the photographer gets that photo without tilt the camera?
[youtube:u6lqcg3r]
Now, about the picture, I think it's photoshopped, the badges have been added on, for starters. I don't think I see a face in there, but I think the leaves (or what look like leaves) signify that it's photoshopped. It kind of looks like a floral pattern in a way..maybe like a netting? It could have a kind of symbolism but I'm not sure about that..
Also, yeah, this was possibly in a studio. Away from anyone to see it. Now, I'm just thinking, is Michael in that red car? Possibly..
This
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."OR is it that the photo is NOT fake?
Perhaps we back in time for that phase more important of hoax this in the early days
I think that after 20 months we all know the reasons and are very aware of it. I have been looking at parts of the picture I haven't noticed before and I think TS' point is that he wants us to take a closer look at details like that, to build actual proof that Mike is not dead, or at least that stuff like this is fake. This way it is easier to explain and show to non-believers. Now there are hundreds of theories on the board and we all have our own 'proofs' that stuff is fake, this could get us all on the same page. Facts instead of theories. Piece by piece.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."