<br />just thought i'd clarify, Ms trinity this message isnt to you, its to others who are reading this thread. so no need to reply and try to rebuttle. to others, isnt it better to hear from an actual JW what we believe rather than someone who is not a JW and is also misinformed and incorrect abt JW beleifs. take it from me people, i am a JW and I think i am in a better position to say what we believe. Ms trinity is a born again christian. I would not sit here and take it upon myself to tell you what they do and do not believe, i leave that to Ms trinity, as i am not a born again and she is the expert in her own religion. again, i am a credible source as to what JWs actually believe, as i am a practicing JW familiar with teaching and doctrine. please see my responses to the post below. my answers are in red.<br /><br />
on 1323273858:
<br />[size=10pt]<br />But I am also stating a fact held by mainstream Christianity that JW is a cult... wrong. NOT viewed as a cult, viewed as a non trinitarian christian faith. this is not my personal opinion; but a world wide one. um, no not saying its her opinion, but it certainly isnt the opinion of the world. The main reason they are considered so by others in the faith is they deny the Deity of Christ. WRONG again, we do accept Christ Jesus, it is why every JW family each day will pray to god for strength and guidance to emulate christlike qualities and ensure we are walking in line with the example he set for us. its also why we pray to God for salvation through Jesus Christ. it is why we thank and praise god for the provision of sacraficial death of Jesus Christ. It is why we close our prayer to God through Christ Jesus' name and finally, it is why we do a worldwide preaching work and bible education work to teach people about christianity and encourage people to walk with christ in their lives as it is the way to God and hence salvation. therefore the statement that we do not accept the christ is not only INCORRECT but it slanderous, offensive and an attempt to discredit JWs. They have their own version of the Bible which removes ALL deity from Christ expressed in the original Greek & Hebrew. Again Incorrect. We are encouraged when we go preaching from house to house to use the householders version of the bible. we bring our own as often people dont have one. Any JW will be happy to use your copy of the bible to show you the scriptures. This is what leads to their doctrine that Jesus is not God/Michael & the Trinity does not exist. It's important that people know this & why other Christians address it. actually, it is important that people seek truth rather than listen to information from people who have a preconcieved opinion about JWs, as their information that they often provide is NOT neutral[/size]<br />
<br /><br />if you read this post, thank you for taking the time to read and understand that JWs are VERY often not only misunderstood but misinterpreted<br /><br />i am done with this thread. i think i know what we believe. thats it<br /><br />peace and love to all, please lets agree to disagree as THIS CONVERSATION is not constructive and was NOT the intended subject for this thread.<br /><br />please can we all move on. thank you.
[color=rgb(166, 77, 121)]In 1992, Michael Jackson was crowned “King Sani” and given the royal title of Prince Michael Jackson Amalaman Anoh. Jackson was crowned prince of the Anyi people (aka as the Agni), of the Kingdom of [/color][color=rgb(166, 77, 121)]Sanwi, [/color][color=rgb(166, 77, 121)]after visiting the Capital of Krindjabo, located deep in the tropical rain forest in the southeast of Ivory Coast.[/color]
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />This was a token symbol of something much grander historically and of Biblical proportions. I simply can't explain it as well as Serenity Dreams has on her site.<br /><br /><br /> http://xxserenityxdreamsxx.blogspot.com/2011/08/michael-jackson-african-king.html<br /><br /><br /><br />I whole-heartedly verify what she says on this topic because of much of my own intensive research into this and related issues on ancient and modern history for at least 10 years before MJ's "death". There is a vast amount of documented evidence to add to what she has written, to verify this for doubters. This is indeed part of the HUGE lie we have been fed in the church.<br /><br /><br />Michael Jackson IS the coming Messiah, the Archangel Michael, the annointed One, the bonafide descendant of King David who will rule with a rod of iron, as promised in the Old Testament. Africans WERE the writers of the Old and New Testaments. The Jewish people we know today are another group of people that had nothing to do with the Bible until after those days, even though it seems they know it so well. That's another huge story, rabbit-hole. It relates to the imposter Messiah, who may be Prince William. The modern state of Israel is where the Jews will set up the false third temple. This is the roots of the Whore of Babylon, the Illuminati, TPTB. 2012 anyone?<br /><br /><br />Australian MJ BeLIEver, and Fordtocarr, isn't it interesting and exciting that God chose for him to be born and raised in the JW faith? No accident I believe.<br /><br /><br />It is for this reason and a few others, that very soon after June 25,09, and my digging into MJ's songs, words, videos and history, that Heaven opened to me, and I KNEW that he was the One we have been waiting for. When MJ got the DNA verification linking him to that tribe, he would have known then, then he was a descendant of King David. That's why June Gatlin said God said to her that MJ was the Prince of Peace, a name for the Messiah. I felt God had been guiding me in searching out the Black Hebrew Israelites, the true writers of the Bible, and the skin color and heritage of those famous people including Yahshua (Jesus). If you are interested in digging deep into this historical fact about one of the biggest lies of two thousand years, start at this huge site, which totally relates to Michael Jackson though he is not discussed there:<br /><br /><br />http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/ , as well as http://stewartsynopsis.com/<br /><br /><br />This "lie" or withheld truth, has been part of God's plan of history, for all the drama to unfold the way it did. It is a layer in understanding God's Word, that is hidden from the wise scholars and given to the simple and the oppressed (especially those who were slaves). Now is the time, "This Is It!"
"Michael Jackson IS the coming Messiah, the Archangel Michael, the annointed One, the bonafide descendant of King David "<br /><br /> :shock:<br /><br />I don't say he isn't but I'm not sure
Aussie, thank you for the clarification. I don't know, as much as this is not the place, the truth needs to be told. <br /><br />It is really unfortunate there are many misinformed people in this world and some who have an agenda to spread lies about JWs.<br /><br />One should go to The Source as to what JW's believe and talk to one that is !!!! <br /><br />
<br />You guys know who is Archangel Michael the Bible tells us about?<br />
<br /><br />there are two differing opinions, see a few pages back for the two possible answers.<br />i believe according to scripture that it is Jesus. i have noted down specific scriptures to support this.
It is for this reason and a few others, that very soon after June 25,09, and my digging into MJ's songs, words, videos and history, that Heaven opened to me, and I KNEW that he was the One we have been waiting for.
<br /><br />Thank you so much for this!! I had an experience which I could describe as 'heaven opening up to me' shortly after seeing TII and spent 2 weeks nearly constantly in tears as I watched hours of Michael every day. I came to the same conclusion you did and have not been able to let go this thought despite everything that's going on in the world and the pushback from nearly every one of my friends.<br /><br />I wasn't aware of the geneology so I'm anxious to read your links but wanted to send out a big bearhug in the meantime!!!
.... isn't it interesting and exciting that God chose for him to be born and raised in the JW faith? No accident I believe.
<br /><br />I feel very happy that Michael is a religious man, that Michael believes in God. <br />I don't understand why there has to be a division between different Christian faiths. They are all basically the same, those theological details really mean that much?<br /><br />To me not.<br />As long as we place God in the core of our faith, the rest is insignificant.<br /><br /><br />As about the JW, I've never rejected them like other people do. I like to read their magazines, I never refuse one and since I've learned Michael was a JW I always stop to talk to them if they want to talk to me. But they must understand one thing that they should not try to change the faith people were born in, for example I am born an orthodox christian and I see no reason why I should change this. We share the same values anyway. We should unite instead of staying divided.
1. I don't have my own "religion." Jehovah witnesses ARE considered by the majority of Christians out there in the world to be a type of cult. Just do a Google search. <br />It's important to research BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY as to WHY that is. Yes; they are basically the same. But here is how they differ from mainstream Christianity; they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ (they call him a perfect man), the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith. Read several Christian resources on these topics, what/why the differences and be informed. Then make up your own mind.<br /><br />2. I didn't say JW's don't accept Christ. Thank God they do, but not his Deity as an equal part of the Godhead Trinity. <br /><br />3. There is no hate in me, the websites or resources I have posted. They are true stories from those that have been there done that, and were left wanting. I have seen this in the JW's of my own family. Isn't it a fair question to find out why from the ones who lived it? They are reaching out in LOVE; ministering to those who have doubts, questions or have been abused by what ever system they may have been in. You don't have to agree. THINK FOR YOURSELF... Investigate both sides of the argument without prejudice so you can make an informed decision; don't kill the messenger or the message just because you don't like it or have a different point of view. The other side as to the WHYS of the questions presented HAS in all fairness to be explored. Don't take my word on it; do your own research, make up your own mind, follow your heart.<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/7rx77fh<br /><br />
I'm lost in this thread /white flag/.<br />The concept of Trinity was never very clear to me, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. I find it difficult to understand. Is it mentioned in the Bible? <br /><br /><br />
Wow, MJonMind. I'm jumping for joy in the USA !!!!! You said Michael Jackson is the Messiah, the anointed one, the archangel Michael. Yes, I could believe it !!!! I have been reading and studying and thinking for about 1.5 years. There are tons of clues, and current events, and predictions that seem to be coming true and it's all starting to make sense. <br /><br />This seems like a life mission and HUGE task and project. It must have a higher purpose. I don't think they would be giving us clues leading us to this for no reason. They're not playing !!!!! This is serious ! <br /><br />Also, MJonMind it is interesting what you said about the Black Hebrews. On one of the Spirit Science videos I saw they said they thought the Hebrews were not originally from earth. The came and settled in the ancient civilization of Atlantis. I forget which video it is on. Probably the one about the History of the earth. They are on Youtube. Also, Michael's video "You are not Alone" is a copy of a painting "Atlantis". Maybe we should investigate this ????????<br /><br />Love <br /><br />
whatever....<br /><br /><br />do you ask a disgruntled employee who has just been fired if they like the company that they work in...<br /><br />who not better to ask than someone who lives it? well again, I LIVE IT - everyday!<br /><br />we dont believe in trinity. doesnt make us a cult.<br /><br />therefore i repeat.... whatever....<br /><br />this mud slinging match is over!<br />
<br />Thanks MsTrinity333 for the videos about the Book of Revelations. I watched 1-8. Is this "The Book" they are talking about in the painting "The Book" that Michael did where he is holding a book ? Then it seems like "the book" was written for the time we are in right now !!!!! <br /><br />All the sevens in the book of revelations is very interesting. There are hundreds of things that are in groups of 7. Seven Angels, Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets and it goes on and on. Also, he said there are over a thousand references to the second coming of christ and hundreds of references that he will reign on earth. He will reign on earth for 1000 years and that is the end of Satan's reign.<br /><br />I haven't read the whole book of revelations but only parts of it. I am going to read it all now !!!!!! <br /><br /><br />Love<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />It's a great painting but I don't think there's any indication of which "book" MJ has; just that it has a key on it... it would be interesting to know wouldn't it?
<br /><br />MsTrinity333, thanks for posting the video of Mark Biltz. Stuff like that always amazes me. He's very knowledgable in ancient Hebrew and Bible codes, where every original letter must be placed exactly to enable hidden words to be seen running in different directions like a word search puzzle. It is quite amazing what can be seen. He did say, "Yeshua is the first fruits of creation." He said that scholars say there is, "70 layers of meaning to every truth." Adam didn't know what Moses knew, who didn't know what Peter knew, who didn't know what scholars like this Mark know. Progressive knowledge. It is still his interpretation that this means that Jesus is God himself and not a first creation, such as Archangel. Even Jesus saying, "I and the Father are one", can be interpreted that they are one in unity and purpose. <br /><br /><br />Similarly, it can also be proved that we will be seated with Christ (brothers, adopted sons, heirs, etc.) and also be Gods/gods in the future which is interesting considering God has planned this from the beginning. If certain groups claim that JW's have changed certain verses to imply that Jesus is not equal to God, then there is also plenty of proof that many many other verses have been altered by orthodox translators over the years, because of the difficulty of the panel to know how to put it from original manuscripts. Also, there have indeed been additions and subtractions from God's Word, such as the 2 New Testament verses which include the trinity concept were added later for church doctrine. Matt. 28:19 and 1 John 5:7. http://www.yrm.org/trinity-fact-fiction.htm <br /><br />[size=10pt]On that subject this may be helpful, here is part 1/3:[/size]<br /><br />
<br /><br /> bearhug<br />[size=10pt]<br />Oh; and here is part of a site TS linked to in one of his posts. This is pretty cool & sent me down a whole other rabbit hole of study. [/size]<br />http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Creation_JJ.asp
<br />I'm lost in this thread /white flag/ .<br />The concept of Trinity was never very clear to me, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. I find it difficult to understand. Is it mentioned in the Bible?<br />
<br /><br />yes, it is<br /><br />e.g. <br /> Matthew 28:19-20 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."<br /><br />as I understand, Trinity is a dogma, meaning it is a doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof (other dogmas being inter alia: immaculate conception of Mary and Jesus resurrection)
Just had to jump into this conversation. <br /><br />
on 1323330798:
<br />Michael Jackson IS the coming Messiah, the Archangel Michael, the annointed One, the bonafide descendant of King David who will rule with a rod of iron, as promised in the Old Testament. Africans WERE the writers of the Old and New Testaments. The Jewish people we know today are another group of people that had nothing to do with the Bible until after those days, even though it seems they know it so well. That's another huge story, rabbit-hole. It relates to the imposter Messiah, who may be Prince William. The modern state of Israel is where the Jews will set up the false third temple. This is the roots of the Whore of Babylon, the Illuminati, TPTB. 2012 anyone?<br />
<br /><br />This line of thinking raises a basic question and it is asked here in all due respect and with no intention to offend. If the idea quoted above, particularly the underlined section, is accepted as truth, what is to be done with the information? For example, many believe that Jesus is the (or a) Messiah and consequently worship, pray to him, view his behavior as guidance regarding correct living, view him as their savior, and so on (again, not judging the beliefs, just stating fact). And also keeping in mind an expression of MJ's that is often repeated around the forum, in general, that "if something is heard often enough, it's eventually believed to be the truth" and is in turn spread [taught] to others as such. In short, if the aforementioned idea--that Michael Jackson is the coming Messiah--is accepted as truth, how are people to treat Michael Jackson? And although it's second-guessing, how might Michael feel knowing that people think of him as the Messiah?[size=11pt][/size]
@MJonmind...another great post. Thanks for the links...I've been looking for another 'rabbit hole' to jump into (lol) and this one is very intriguing. Especially since I began digging that 'hole' awhile back.<br /><br />We share a lot of the same thoughts.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />Just had to jump into this conversation. <br /><br />
on 1323330798:
<br />Michael Jackson IS the coming Messiah, the Archangel Michael, the annointed One, the bonafide descendant of King David who will rule with a rod of iron, as promised in the Old Testament. Africans WERE the writers of the Old and New Testaments. The Jewish people we know today are another group of people that had nothing to do with the Bible until after those days, even though it seems they know it so well. That's another huge story, rabbit-hole. It relates to the imposter Messiah, who may be Prince William. The modern state of Israel is where the Jews will set up the false third temple. This is the roots of the Whore of Babylon, the Illuminati, TPTB. 2012 anyone?<br />
<br /><br />This line of thinking raises a basic question and it is asked here in all due respect and with no intention to offend. If the idea quoted above, particularly the underlined section, is accepted as truth, what is to be done with the information? For example, many believe that Jesus is the (or a) Messiah and consequently worship, pray to him, view his behavior as guidance regarding correct living, view him as their savior, and so on (again, not judging the beliefs, just stating fact). And also keeping in mind an expression of MJ's that is often repeated around the forum, in general, that "if something is heard often enough, it's eventually believed to be the truth" and is in turn spread [taught] to others as such. In short, if the aforementioned idea--that Michael Jackson is the coming Messiah--is accepted as truth, how are people to treat Michael Jackson? And although it's second-guessing, how might Michael feel knowing that people think of him as the Messiah?[size=11pt][/size]<br />
<br /><br />@STARCHILD<;br /><br />thank you for posting starchild. i really appreciated your post.<br /><br />one who is religiously inclined and also looks to MJ as a 'saviour' may call him michael the archangel or messiah. this statement may satisfy, console and give that person somekind of hope (though false hope) - and yet that same very statement may be highly offensive to MJ himself.<br /><br />MJ is a believer in God and Jesus. He holds them sacred, prays and reads everyday. i am sure that if he were to hear fans say that he is the messiah he would consider it blashpemous and be uncomfortable that people are giving glory, honor, worship to MJ instead of God.<br /><br />
<br />I'm lost in this thread /white flag/ .<br />The concept of Trinity was never very clear to me, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. I find it difficult to understand. Is it mentioned in the Bible?<br />
<br /><br />yes, it is<br /><br />e.g. <br /> Matthew 28:19-20 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."<br /><br />as I understand, Trinity is a dogma, meaning it is a doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof (other dogmas being inter alia: immaculate conception of Mary and Jesus resurrection)<br />
<br />Oh thank you.<br />OK a dogma but what it really means? That there are 3 Gods or there is only one God with 3 manifestations or 3 attributes? <br />As I see it, The Son is the same with The Father but the Holy Ghost is ...what ?! I don't understand.<br />Maybe there is something that escapes the human logic here.
[size=small]one who is religiously inclined and also looks to MJ as a 'saviour' may call him michael the archangel or messiah. this statement may satisfy, console and give that person somekind of hope (though false hope) - and yet that same very statement may be highly offensive to MJ himself.MJ is a believer in God and Jesus. He holds them sacred, prays and reads everyday. i am sure that if he were to hear fans say that he is the messiah he would consider it blashpemous and be uncomfortable that people are giving glory, honor, worship to MJ instead of God.[/size]
<br />[size=small]This is a very good question. I of course can't speak for Michael, but can only guess from videos, etc.[/size]<br />[size=small]I am not speaking with 100% confidence at all, but only from what my previous digging and heart tells me. [/size]<br />[size=small]Would MJ be upset or uncomfortable if people were to worship him. [/size]<br />[size=small]Well worship means, [/size]<br />[size=small] [/size]
[size=small] 1. The primary Hebrew word for worship.[/size][size=small] a. Shachah - "to depress, i.e. prostrate (in homage to royalty or God): bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship."[/size]
[size=small]I've mostly only seen Moslems do that for Allah.[/size]<br />
[size=small]3. The word in the English language.[/size][font='times new roman']>[/font][font='times new roman']a. Literally means to ascribe worth to something.[/font]<br /><br />[color=rgb(0, 0, 102)][size=medium]4. True worship begins with a deep respect or reverence for God, a frame of heart, an attitude. This must be fixed in one's mind before we go further. An "act" of worship is an act proceeding from or the result of that attitude.[/size][/color]
Even an earthly king or queen would require protocol in their presence. MJ is similar to an king, because of the prestige and honor given him, adoring crowds wanting just to touch or see him. Asking him to do something without him being physically there, is not anything I'm thinking or suggesting.<br /><br /><br />In the TII trailer, who are they praying to at :27?<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-NFzKUoO-w<br /><br />In MJ’s memorial when they are singing “Soon and very soon we are going to see the King”, I’m pretty sure they’re not singing about Jesus, but are inferring that soon we will see King Michael.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSTwdbvLVeg<br /><br />Before 6:40, there is near worship, and after MJ is clearly slipping off his usual clothes/covering to reveal his “Jesus” blazing white clothes, where he is blessing children and adults. There’s no mention of Jesus at all, or ever in his concerts.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJqIEU6RfUo<br /><br /><br />There has been much more on this topic way back, so I don’t really want to go into it. Many deeper pics and hints and links in other threads.<br /><br />http://animalnewyork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/study-for-field-of-dreams_0.jpg[size=medium]<br /><br /><br />What's the halo for?<br /><br /><br /><br />[/size]<br /><br />
In the TII trailer, who are they praying to at :27?<br />
<br /><br />that moment at 0:27 is one of my first big WTF?? ...I guess they may be praying for the man, not necessarilly to the man ....but I can be wrong.<br /><br />In fact I wish I am wrong because I want an explanation for my need to worship Michael bow/ another one than obsession.<br /><br />
Before 6:40, there is near worship, and after MJ is clearly slipping off his usual clothes/covering to reveal his “Jesus” blazing white clothes, where he is blessing children and adults. There’s no mention of Jesus at all, or ever in his concerts.<br />
<br /><br />OMG the girl in yellow dress is kissing Michael's hand and Michael is kissing the rabi on the his head. This scene is indeed raising some questions.<br /><br />A skeptical one would say they only made a show scene, MJ playing the role of Jesus. <br />An optimistic one would say he reveals his true identity through his performances.<br />I don't know what to believe but clearly Michael placed himself times and times again in Jesus's role.<br />Maybe he just wanted to suggest to people that they should all try to be more God-like, how the Bible teaches us. In fact Jesus is telling us in one of the Gospels that we have to try to be perfect like God.<br /><br /><br />Matthew 5:48<br /><br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br />48 [size=10pt]Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. [/size]
And after seeing again the halo I must say - it's very confusing. makes one wonder if he was in his right mind or maybe he indeed is Archangel Michael...this is very confusing.
<br /><br />that moment at 0:27 is one of my first big WTF?? ...I guess they may be praying for the man, not necessarilly to the man ....but I can be wrong.<br /><br />In fact I wish I am wrong because I want an explanation for my need to worship Michael bow/ <br />
<br /><br />People have said about Jesus, that he was either a madman, mistaken/deluded, lying or truthful.<br />Could Michael be self-deluded? IDK. I'm just showing what I see him doing, not being the regular ordinary Christian as members claim.<br /><br />There is only about 3 occasions where it is said people worshipped Jesus, not because he asked them to, but they felt awe at him, and he didn't tell them to stop.<br />But an angel and Paul told people to stop who were worshipping them.<br /><br />I don't think MJ's had to deal with that, though he's always loved the way his crowds adore him. What about videos of fans going bonkers--jumping, crying, fainting. If the History video doesn't show worship of MJ, I give up. However, mostly the issue is people ridiculing and despising him.
Why you say Michael didn't have to deal with that?<br />There are moments when I worship him but I don't want to worship him, it's just I feel the need to. And I don't know why.<br />I thought it was because of the forbidden subject LOL.<br />
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