But if any still have difficulty with the emotions and statements of Katherine and/or Randy, you might want to consider that maybe some of the family members are not in on the hoax. I’m not saying that this is the actual case; but if it’s easier for you,this is yet another example where the Elvis connection could help.
“One fact that most people would think is that my Daddy [Vernon] must have known, well he didn’t. We were planning on telling him when he passed away without ever knowing.” (TTAEAP 28). “My own Daddy bless his soul never knew the truth. Little Lisa was told months later and explained to her she would not see me much. ... I feel bad my Daddy wasn’t allowed to know but it just couldn’t be done.” (TTAEAP 32,33). “Also let me tell you that my Daddy did not know of this hoax if they want to call it that. If he had not died suddenly, we would have told him. ... To this day I feel terrible about this. But he had to be eliminated from the beginning. He was to be told after 3 years but as you know he passed 6 months too early.” (TTAEAP 56).
I found this a rather odd thing for TS to say. It's like he's saying we can believe whatever we like if it makes it easier for us. Since when was this hoax about easy and believing whatever? Of course he's right - we CAN believe whatever we like, and to some extent we probably do - but it doesn't make it the truth. If he's about pointing us to the truth, it seemed a strange comment to me, that's all.
And regarding Elvis/MJ parallels and connections, I understood that MJ always studied 'the greats', then added his own twist/alterations - e.g. he didn't go with an open casket because it hadn't been a runaway success in Elvis' case. So, for me, just because Elvis didn't tell his father doesn't mean MJ did the same. I would think it very possible that he took on board how bad Elvis felt about not telling his father and decided not to do the same.
[BTW, I wonder what reason Elvis had for not telling his father at the beginning and why he was going to be told after 3 years. I cannot imagine making a decision like that - I can only think that it must've been for some really serious, life-threatening reason or else I can't help but view it as cold and heartless. The same goes for Lisa Marie, I can't get my head around doing that to your child.]
I am completely saddened with some of what has been said here. I'm not going to give my arguments because they've already been presented very well by others (Souza, Sarahli, etc).
I think the opposing arguments are borderline laughable if I'm being honest... I hate to even say such things because everyone is entitled to their opinions and interpretations...but... that is how I feel. I keep getting this vibe that something fishy is going on with this. Maybe not, maybe I'm reading too much into it...
But I have to ask - Mo, are these your honest views or are you trying to test us? Or is there something that we don't know that you do? Forgive me, please don't get upset. I really don't want to argue and I'm not trying to start anything. I'm just genuinely curious because I'm just not getting it... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
You know what? I was thinking about the same thing too. I even thought that if this could be a game or some sort of test because there's so much contradiction btw the family members, friends and collegues and I thought that some sort of contradiction had been trying to be created on the forum too. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I know that this is not true but Mo definitely doesn't sound like herself. No offense Mo but there is no logic in your theories. Souza, navibl and Sarahli have already written what I could write so I don't want to repeat what they wrote. I lost myself once, so I do understand how you are confused. When I lost my belief in TS, I thought that I started to think "out of the box" for the first time during the hoax issue. I thought that I was going to find something different from what we were told and found. But nope, there's nothing different out there. Just weird, illogical theories with dead ends. I started to check out everything, every detail from day 1 over and over again. I thought of every single possibility. And finally I found out that TS had been so right from the beginning. I'm not attacking or humiliating you, pls do not get this post that way. But I do believe that you need to get some rest and then start looking at every details from the beginning and think of every possibility. It works, it really does. I know that you will find it out if you get some rest and start digging again. I know that you think you're right and something is wrong with TS and the hoax but it is not like that. Just give some time to yourself and you will see. I know you will. Peace and Love.
...I thought the same thing about Mo not sounding like herself. I didn't want to say anything like that. But that's exactly what it's like. Mo, it's almost like your "Mo-ness", the essensce that makes you You, isn't there. I find myself reading some things and literally shaking my head in diisbelief, NOT because your opinions are different from my own, but because they don't make much sense and usually you make a lot of sense...
Yes, this. And Mo, you won't respond to me or answer my questions or engage in debate with me at all. That's very unlike you.
In urban-ese, Mo, why you trippin? These ladies, our friends, have asked you some very legitimate questions and you've just been evasive.
NOT because your opinions are different from my own, but because they don't make much sense and usually you make a lot of sense...???
Every opinion makes sence, if you like it or not, because every human being has the right to give his/hers.
*all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights*
Who are you to judge, who gives you the rights?
I know that this is not true but Mo definitely doesn't sound like herself. No offense Mo but there is no logic in your theories.
Start reading again and perhaps you can find it.
And Mo definitely sounds like herself.
Every theory has logics in it if you like it or not.
There are always 2 sides ....yours and the other persons...
But the truth could be also somewhere in the middle...
That is the truth and nothing more and nothing less.
But the question is also....will the truth prevail....
And i am old enough to say from my own experience...
No.... Sometimes it DOES NOT.
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
But if any still have difficulty with the emotions and statements of Katherine and/or Randy, you might want to consider that maybe some of the family members are not in on the hoax. I’m not saying that this is the actual case; but if it’s easier for you,this is yet another example where the Elvis connection could help.
“One fact that most people would think is that my Daddy [Vernon] must have known, well he didn’t. We were planning on telling him when he passed away without ever knowing.” (TTAEAP 28). “My own Daddy bless his soul never knew the truth. Little Lisa was told months later and explained to her she would not see me much. ... I feel bad my Daddy wasn’t allowed to know but it just couldn’t be done.” (TTAEAP 32,33). “Also let me tell you that my Daddy did not know of this hoax if they want to call it that. If he had not died suddenly, we would have told him. ... To this day I feel terrible about this. But he had to be eliminated from the beginning. He was to be told after 3 years but as you know he passed 6 months too early.” (TTAEAP 56).
I found this a rather odd thing for TS to say. It's like he's saying we can believe whatever we like if it makes it easier for us. Since when was this hoax about easy and believing whatever? Of course he's right - we CAN believe whatever we like, and to some extent we probably do - but it doesn't make it the truth. If he's about pointing us to the truth, it seemed a strange comment to me, that's all.
And regarding Elvis/MJ parallels and connections, I understood that MJ always studied 'the greats', then added his own twist/alterations - e.g. he didn't go with an open casket because it hadn't been a runaway success in Elvis' case. So, for me, just because Elvis didn't tell his father doesn't mean MJ did the same. I would think it very possible that he took on board how bad Elvis felt about not telling his father and decided not to do the same.
[BTW, I wonder what reason Elvis had for not telling his father at the beginning and why he was going to be told after 3 years. I cannot imagine making a decision like that - I can only think that it must've been for some really serious, life-threatening reason or else I can't help but view it as cold and heartless. The same goes for Lisa Marie, I can't get my head around doing that to your child.]
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Souza! I just wanted to say that you have my full support. I totally agree with you.
Why are people starting to oppose the Hoax -theory WITHOUT answering all the important questions? To me it is just seems ignorant to do that when TS is the ONLY ONE so far to provide us with a big picture that makes sens and are connecting all the important pieces/dots.
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
I have no problem if people disagree with me, but since this hoax and TS' posts are based on assumptions and theories how is it possible to not base our comments on theories and assumptions as well...? We don't know and you don't know as well...
TS wrote about the dangerous autograph and the fact that it is the proof that the hoax has a big purpose, but who said that Michael himself signed that autograph? We have seen some many MJ's signatures.... you are ASSUMING that mj himself signed it, but you could be right and you could be wrong....
Michael himself has never talked about the number 999 or 333.. again you can assume that those numbers are MJ connected... or is it the truth just because TS said it?
TS asked us to go to the media, because the world must know that MJ is still alive, but do you realize we are exposing michael jackson even if we have no proofs this is worth for HIS life?
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Where can I find the sheep theory Mo wrote
I was searching for it can someone help me out?
Chappie
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
I have no problem if people disagree with me, but since this hoax and TS' posts are based on assumptions and theories how is it possible to not base our comments on theories and assumptions as well...? We don't know and you don't know as well...
TS wrote about the dangerous autograph and the fact that it is the proof that the hoax has a big purpose, but who said that Michael himself signed that autograph? We have seen some many MJ's signatures.... you are ASSUMING that mj himself signed it, but you could be right and you could be wrong....
Michael himself has never talked about the number 999 or 333.. again you can assume that those numbers are MJ connected... or is it the truth just because TS said it?
TS asked us to go to the media, because the world must know that MJ is still alive, but do you realize we are exposing michael jackson even if we have no proofs this is worth for HIS life?
Puff, his is going in circles and I get the feeling that whatever I say, you will oppose it. Fine, that's not my problem because I will keep backing up my replies.
The 1998 Dangerous Autograph code was signed by Mike. It was on his normal Dangerous album cover, the limited edition, on guitars, fedorahs and what else he signed. This autograph code includes 333 and 999 (if you understand the math of course) and since he signed with that autograph multiple times I would say yes, I know he mentioned those numbers himself many times. Unless you have a different thought about that of course like Mike never released the Dangerous album himself?
If you would listen to his songs, his speeches and look at his art and symbolism it is also quite clear that exposing TPTB has always been on his agenda. Unless you think he never gave those speeches or sang those songs himself, or got chicken shit and peeped out? But then I ask you: why make it so obvious that this is all a hoax? Why not just crash with a plane and get over with it? Why no open casket? Why all the BS the last 18 months (see the index of this website)?
TS' posts are just based on assumption and theory? That's your opinion, I disagree and I have said many times why I do, I will not repeat myself anymore. You and Mo seem to be desperate to debunk TS and convince others that he is a fraud. As long as that happens, I will be right here debunking your posts, because there are big holes in your theories and it is my right to point them out.
Last but not least, I will again ask you a counter question although it will probably stay unanswered like all the other questions I asked: If exposing the MJ hoax is dangerous for Mike, then WHY is this website still online? Is the whole family evil? They have not attempted once to shut this down. Never have they spoken out against it. I have always said that this site will be history as soon as the family would contact us that he is in danger because of it.
Again: I never said I was right or you were wrong, I simply said I make more sense. I am still waiting for that coherent theory that backs up your and Mo's theory.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Having taken a couple of days to read and re-read update #6.5, and then sitting back to read the reactions to it, I think it's clear that whatever's been going on lately with certain members changing their opinion isn't going to be resolved by using the very thing that has caused their change of heart. Those with a strong distrust of TS will continue to have that view and those who don't will continue to have their view. Arguing over it is indeed going around in circles. TS did actually go into specifics in this update more than I expected him to in an effort to address certain concerns, however those who suspect him of deception just see this as more deception. More smoke and mirrors.
I don't know exactly what's been going on lately but in one respect the opposing views of the admins could be seen as a good thing if they're not at war with each other and the site remains. If Mo and Souza had exactly the same view on everything surely that would be more worrying? It might surprise some that Mo has started to question TS but I think we need differing viewpoints to balance us and make us think twice about everything. What intrigues me is the references to pentagrams she mentioned the other day and what she believes the significance of that is, there is a lot of what she says that makes sense but in relation to this hoax as a whole, the BIG picture, I'd like to know what her belief now is concerning all that we've seen and discovered the past 18 months, even after taking TS out of the equation. Assuming as she seems to suggest now that he is a fraud, where does that leave her as an investigator, what does she think now the real story might be? We know she has serious doubts about TS but as I've said before we're not here because of TS we're here because of Michael.
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Where can I find the sheep theory Mo wrote
I was searching for it can someone help me out?
Chappie
Sure, here in her own words:
IF IT TURNS OUT THIS INDEED WAS A TEST:
To the ones who will get angry with TS – Don’t blame TS. In fact, if it turns out that this was a test, then there’s no one to blame but yourself. You, like me, gullibly believed everything TS said in Update #6. Keep in mind that he simply summarized the already existing stories on the internet, he didn’t make this up himself.
Don’t point out fingers to TS, but look in the mirror and point towards the one you see in that mirror - the one who was gullible.
We were warned.
Since people are blindly following TS in this case, here's the reason as to why people believe Linda:
She shouldn't speak for others. If she felt she was fooled because she never really questioned TS' posts, then fine, but that isn't the same for me or others on this board.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
I have no problem if people disagree with me, but since this hoax and TS' posts are based on assumptions and theories how is it possible to not base our comments on theories and assumptions as well...? We don't know and you don't know as well...
TS wrote about the dangerous autograph and the fact that it is the proof that the hoax has a big purpose, but who said that Michael himself signed that autograph? We have seen some many MJ's signatures.... you are ASSUMING that mj himself signed it, but you could be right and you could be wrong....
Michael himself has never talked about the number 999 or 333.. again you can assume that those numbers are MJ connected... or is it the truth just because TS said it?
TS asked us to go to the media, because the world must know that MJ is still alive, but do you realize we are exposing michael jackson even if we have no proofs this is worth for HIS life?
Puff, his is going in circles and I get the feeling that whatever I say, you will oppose it. Fine, that's not my problem because I will keep backing up my replies.
The 1998 Dangerous Autograph code was signed by Mike. It was on his normal Dangerous album cover, the limited edition, on guitars, fedorahs and what else he signed. This autograph code includes 333 and 999 (if you understand the math of course) and since he signed with that autograph multiple times I would say yes, I know he mentioned those numbers himself many times. Unless you have a different thought about that of course like Mike never released the Dangerous album himself?
If you would listen to his songs, his speeches and look at his art and symbolism it is also quite clear that exposing TPTB has always been on his agenda. Unless you think he never gave those speeches or sang those songs himself, or got chicken shit and peeped out? But then I ask you: why make it so obvious that this is all a hoax? Why not just crash with a plane and get over with it? Why no open casket? Why all the BS the last 18 months (see the index of this website)?
TS' posts are just based on assumption and theory? That's your opinion, I disagree and I have said many times why I do, I will not repeat myself anymore. You and Mo seem to be desperate to debunk TS and convince others that he is a fraud. As long as that happens, I will be right here debunking your posts, because there are big holes in your theories and it is my right to point them out.
Last but not least, I will again ask you a counter question although it will probably stay unanswered like all the other questions I asked: If exposing the MJ hoax is dangerous for Mike, then WHY is this website still online? Is the whole family evil? They have not attempted once to shut this down. Never have they spoken out against it. I have always said that this site will be history as soon as the family would contact us that he is in danger because of it.
Again: I never said I was right or you were wrong, I simply said I make more sense. I am still waiting for that coherent theory that backs up your and Mo's theory.
Who said that Michael himself didn't release the Dangerous album? I know very well that he spread that message all over his life and career but that doen't mean that he decided to hoax his death for it! I was just saying that Michael probably didn't sign THAT autograph, and I'm curious, where is that autograph now if it has such important meaning...?
He signed various autograph with 1998 thing, but JUST one of them revealed the hoax thing, curious......
According to TS:
There are several unique things about THIS Dangerous autograph, DIFFERENT than the other 1998 autographs.
The other "1998" autographs:
Souza, maybe you don't get the point, I'm not saying that Michael is dead and they killed him, I'm saying that probably Michael didn't plan THIS hoax...
You know that the estate HAS the power to shut down websites with michael jackson name in the domains...? Food for thoughts.......
If there are holes in my theories is just because no one knows the truth so it's impossible that all the story matches perfectly. I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS because we don't know who is it and I've never talked to Michael one to one, like none of us ever did, including you.That's why I feel very unconfortable exposing MJ to the media. It's sad that people seem to forget all of a sudden what Michael has always thought about the media. It seems like they're more intrigued with all that happened after June 25, 2009 rather than Michael's message and life.Of course he gave those speeches and sang those songs himself, but this doesn't explain the use of those numbers the way TS wrote. It remains a theory. We didn't see an open casket just because he wasn't inside of course. Again, that doesn't suggest this is an hoax the way you call it. I see the index of this website and many of those you call clues maybe are like that just because you want to see them like that. Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind. The Jackson family will never contact you because they've got better and more serious things to deal with. This website won't be shut down as well as the other many death hoax forums. Michael faked his death and most likely he'd better think about how to be in contact with his kids, just to give you an example. Or do you think he is monitoring this forum day by day? I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, I'm just saying I make more sense.
P.S
you are not debunking my post, you are just twisting words...
I have to say that I do not get it. Should everyone have the same opinion around here? Why being so anxious about it, when someone doesn't agree with you? I think that *Mo* has made some very logical statements and whether she is right or not, time will prove it and not anybody else. Telling somebody that he/she has lost him/herself, just because he/she seems to be considering another point of view than he/she used to and that is different to others' views isn't an argument at all, and tends to be extremely narrow minded as an opinion.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
I have no problem if people disagree with me, but since this hoax and TS' posts are based on assumptions and theories how is it possible to not base our comments on theories and assumptions as well...? We don't know and you don't know as well...
TS wrote about the dangerous autograph and the fact that it is the proof that the hoax has a big purpose, but who said that Michael himself signed that autograph? We have seen some many MJ's signatures.... you are ASSUMING that mj himself signed it, but you could be right and you could be wrong....
Michael himself has never talked about the number 999 or 333.. again you can assume that those numbers are MJ connected... or is it the truth just because TS said it?
TS asked us to go to the media, because the world must know that MJ is still alive, but do you realize we are exposing michael jackson even if we have no proofs this is worth for HIS life?
Puff, his is going in circles and I get the feeling that whatever I say, you will oppose it. Fine, that's not my problem because I will keep backing up my replies.
The 1998 Dangerous Autograph code was signed by Mike. It was on his normal Dangerous album cover, the limited edition, on guitars, fedorahs and what else he signed. This autograph code includes 333 and 999 (if you understand the math of course) and since he signed with that autograph multiple times I would say yes, I know he mentioned those numbers himself many times. Unless you have a different thought about that of course like Mike never released the Dangerous album himself?
If you would listen to his songs, his speeches and look at his art and symbolism it is also quite clear that exposing TPTB has always been on his agenda. Unless you think he never gave those speeches or sang those songs himself, or got chicken shit and peeped out? But then I ask you: why make it so obvious that this is all a hoax? Why not just crash with a plane and get over with it? Why no open casket? Why all the BS the last 18 months (see the index of this website)?
TS' posts are just based on assumption and theory? That's your opinion, I disagree and I have said many times why I do, I will not repeat myself anymore. You and Mo seem to be desperate to debunk TS and convince others that he is a fraud. As long as that happens, I will be right here debunking your posts, because there are big holes in your theories and it is my right to point them out.
Last but not least, I will again ask you a counter question although it will probably stay unanswered like all the other questions I asked: If exposing the MJ hoax is dangerous for Mike, then WHY is this website still online? Is the whole family evil? They have not attempted once to shut this down. Never have they spoken out against it. I have always said that this site will be history as soon as the family would contact us that he is in danger because of it.
Again: I never said I was right or you were wrong, I simply said I make more sense. I am still waiting for that coherent theory that backs up your and Mo's theory.
Who said that Michael himself didn't release the Dangerous album? I know very well that he spread that message all over his life and career but that doen't mean that he decided to hoax his death for it!
I was just saying that Michael probably didn't sign THAT autograph, and I'm curious, where is that autograph now if it has such important meaning...?
He signed various autograph with 1998 thing, but JUST one of them revealed the hoax thing, curious......
Souza, maybe you don't get the point, I'm not saying that Michael is dead and they killed him, I'm saying that probably Michael didn't plan THIS hoax...
You know that the estate HAS the power to shut down websites with michael jackson name in the domains...? Food for thoughts.......
If there are holes in my theories is just because no one knows the truth so it's impossible that all the story matches perfectly. I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS because we don't know who is it and I've never talked to Michael one to one, like none of us ever did, including you.That's why I feel very unconfortable exposing MJ to the media. It's sad that people seem to forget all of a sudden what Michael has always thought about the media. It seems like they're more intrigued with all that happened after June 25, 2009 rather than Michael's message and life.Of course he gave those speeches and sang those songs himself, but this doesn't explain the use of those numbers the way TS wrote. It remains a theory. We didn't see an open casket just because he wasn't inside of course. Again, that doesn't suggest this is an hoax the way you call it. I see the index of this website and many of those you call clues maybe are like that just because you want to see them like that. Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind. The Jackson family will never contact you because they've got better and more serious things to deal with. This website won't be shut down as well as the other many death hoax forums. Michael faked his death and most likely he'd better think about how to be in contact with his kids, just to give you an example. Or do you think he is monitoring this forum day by day? I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, I'm just saying I make more sense.
P.S
you are not debunking my post, you are just twisting words...
I'm sorry Puff but we are many who think that you are not making much sense (no offence) because you don't answerer Souza questions and you don't provide us with a big picture of things... I don't know about all of you guys but to me what Souza says makes much more sense <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS
You call that humble? Throwing accusations at people like that while you are even admitting yourself now it's only just a theory? That's not humble at all, that's just plain wrong. And I don't take what I like most, I think and use my head and I can see the bigger picture here.
Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind.
Blind? As in what? What do I not see here? Your logic? No I don't see your logic, does that make me blind? So in other words people that do not support your theory full of holes are blind sheep? Again: is that humble? I asked many times to come up with a coherent theory to support your claims and I haven't seen one still. I have never said you were blind not to believe me, please reread my posts. I also never attacked anyone for his/her opinion, I only opposed it with valid arguments, like I do with everything I disagree with. As soon as I reply to Mo, I get you on my back, attacking me by saying I am blind? What's up Puff? What's the deal here? And where did I say history? I think I used the word ARCHIVE.
Again, your theory and Mo's do not make sense at all so far and if you want to convince people, provide us with a story that does make sense. Since this is going in circles and both you and Mo have seem to have made up your minds about this, I am done. I have posted enough good arguments to support my point of view and I am repeating myself. If you don't want to see it, then don't see it. And please do not twist MY words. I have asked you lots of questions to support your theory, you answered ZERO. Answer them before you question me, because I took the effort many times already to answer your questions.
The fact that you have another opinion doesn't mean yours is right and others are blind sheep Puff. Note that I never claimed that the other way around. Why are you so desperate to convince people with your shaky theory?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Mo is presenting his opinion in an intelligent manner, I see nothing unreasonable about it. Remember that we are investigating theories and not facts, along this research can change your mind or to present research from a different point of view or in a "multicontextual."
My personal opinion about the case of Eliza is Eliza's case was not clarified by TS, still persist in my doubts and confusion, I must say I'm not saying that the DNA submitted by Eliza is false, simply did not meet the protocol legal gathering, and now is the fact that handwriting results are not accepted by the courts according to research published by Serenitys_Dream. Perhaps TS refirion Eliza both the case of scientific evidence and proof that Elvis is alive, but he also spoke of the double "BAM" this past summer Eliza referring to the success of the court and we are seeing that the case is complicated.
This evidence may make the judge makes his own personal interpretation of a subjective way and forget about the legal protocol?, I do not know, am not a lawyer or judge or pretend to be, I'll wait to see what happens.
I think the acceptance of the views of others is an act of maturity, I can accept other opinions even disagree with them, but quite immature completely deny
To accept and integrate critical observations on the other (positive or negative), it is important to know listening and reading. Seemingly, we all know to do so. In practice, many people have authentic difficulties to do so. Contrary, practise selective reading. I.e. selected unconsciously fragments that were tells them, what they want to read or hear, and not all of the message. I or any of us can not be based on an idea or theory, so that idea or theory come TS,... or Michael Jackson.
paula, if you would read all the comments you will see I have never said I dismissed any theory, I asked Mo and Puff to explain their theories, like they urged TS to explain himself. The theories Mo and Puff present are inaccurate and don't make sense. I am not the only one who feels about it that way, see other comments as well. I think calling people blind sheep that follow anything TS said is immature and even disrespectful and therefore I have the full right to voice my opinion on that. I never stated anything like that. Please reread all my posts and stay fair about this.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
TS, whoever you are (Triple Seven, as mentioned in this thread might come very close <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->, I may be right or wrong in my assumptions and hope you will be able to reveal your identity some day, as you said. Even if you post(ed) under different usernames /different writing styles, I think I would feel you). I wish you health, safety and well-being. I do understand - more than words can tell.
The Elvis-connection is undeniable and I am aware of the fact that everything going on in this matter, be it legal cases or estate affairs, cannot be dealt with as they are done under "normal" circumstances, because the people involved have been officially declared "dead", which makes it extremely difficult, if lives are at stake f.e.
You are a brilliant writer, and I like to read between the lines a lot, no matter how long your posts are.
Your latest post helps me understand more than I did before, even if not everything is on the surface.
In a time where some people tend to write superficial texts, you take great care to compose a text and have something to say with a meaning.
Let me make it clear that I do not expect people to gullibly believe anything and everything I say, merely because of the predictions. Please accept or reject what I say based on the reliability of the information itself; this is what I have always said. If I signed up with various usernames—and posted information using various writing styles, so that people would not recognize me—the information should be assessed on the exact same basis as my posts under the username TS.
Some have commented on my predictions, saying that I have a “need” to prove my authenticity. But again, the reason for the predictions is not for you to merely believe everything I say; rather, it is for when I reveal my identity—to help people believe what I say about myself at that time. Some would believe me now if I revealed this, but some would not.
I shall believe in your integrity as long as I have not been convinced of the contrary, which has not happened up to now.
Please, forgive all doubters, don't take it personally. It's all for a common goal - to find the truth, justice for people, who may not be in a position to fight for it themselves.
All attacks are justified, as those who have doubts, are only looking for
the reliability of the information itself.
It is hard to tell who is behind a username, be it XYZ, TS, an admin, a moderator, just any bloody name can hide someone you didn't expect.
So it is only a way of protection not to be too blind and ask questions.
We have been fooled so many times in this "hoax", and we don't want to be fooled again.
Everybody with a common sense of mind understands: This is real, not fiction.
All members here have their detective glasses on and are looking for answers.
Whenever you want to communicate and tell us something, please do. I am looking forward to it <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> and hope you come back often.
I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS
You call that humble? Throwing accusations at people like that while you are even admitting yourself now it's only just a theory? That's not humble at all, that's just plain wrong. And I don't take what I like most, I think and use my head and I can see the bigger picture here.
Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind.
Blind? As in what? What do I not see here? Your logic? No I don't see your logic, does that make me blind? So in other words people that do not support your theory full of holes are blind sheep? Again: is that humble? I asked many times to come up with a coherent theory to support your claims and I haven't seen one still. I have never said you were blind not to believe me, please reread my posts. I also never attacked anyone for his/her opinion, I only opposed it with valid arguments, like I do with everything I disagree with. As soon as I reply to Mo, I get you on my back, attacking me by saying I am blind? What's up Puff? What's the deal here? And where did I say history? I think I used the word ARCHIVE.
Again, your theory and Mo's do not make sense at all so far and if you want to convince people, provide us with a story that does make sense. Since this is going in circles and both you and Mo have seem to have made up your minds about this, I am done. I have posted enough good arguments to support my point of view and I am repeating myself. If you don't want to see it, then don't see it. And please do not twist MY words. I have asked you lots of questions to support your theory, you answered ZERO. Answer them before you question me, because I took the effort many times already to answer your questions.
The fact that you have another opinion doesn't mean yours is right and others are blind sheep Puff. Note that I never claimed that the other way around. Why are you so desperate to convince people with your shaky theory?
Well Souza, and what did you do? Didn't you silence all those people who opposed to TS/TIAI? I was not born yesterday, I know what happened … So the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't need to convince anyone, I provided you enough FACTS that you have rejected just with: "TS said so, and TS claimed so….. " TS is not gospel…. Again, what TS stated is REALLY what Michael wants?
and yes, all this story made you blind, you rejected Michael's words, just because TS claimed the contrary, what can I call it…? You can call it: " think for yourself" I call it "following someone blindly".. We agree to disagree.
You can come up with the fact that nobody has debunked the dangerous autograph, I can say that the last "6" is not a "6" but a "0", again my vision against yours. I can say that the 'arrow' doesn't mean "subtract" in maths, but then you will come up with something else… It will be an endless story…
I'm not going to repeat myself, keep ignoring what I've already provided you ~you skipped the whole "dangerous autograph" part in my previous reply ( and all the other replies that I gave you during those days as well) ~ that's fine by me, but don't tell me that I didn't give you anything because maybe YOU need to re-read all my posts and if you don't find them logical then that' s not my problem anymore…
paula, if you would read all the comments you will see I have never said I dismissed any theory, I asked Mo and Puff to explain their theories, like they urged TS to explain himself. The theories Mo and Puff present are inaccurate and don't make sense. I am not the only one who feels about it that way, see other comments as well. I think calling people blind sheep that follow anything TS said is immature and even disrespectful and therefore I have the full right to voice my opinion on that. I never stated anything like that. Please reread all my posts and stay fair about this.
Well, actually not that Mo call people sheep, would have to explain herself.
I also asked him a very polite to TS an explanation in relation to the case of Eliza, and I say, for me his explanation was not clear, I think is a little annoying that, because some people will ask for an explanation This was one of his answers, and what I wrote:
Other than that, I am not obligated to do any redirects or posts; it is my own choice, and no amount of complaints or anything else is going to force me to post again.
paula-c wrote:
TS wrote :In fact, all you need to do is ask people to go to <!-- m -->[url=http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com;]http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com;[/url]<!-- m --> whether they are Elvis fans, or MJ fans, or anyone really—maybe we can even get the attention of the media! This is an easy domain name to remember, and it’s already pointed to this thread (and it will stay here, even if TIAI redirects elsewhere). Also, I will be watching this thread pretty closely; and if anyone posts ridicule or other non-evidence based objections, I will be here to call them on it (unless someone else does before I do).
Sorry, but when things are not clear what is best to give an explanation, I personally would like to know TS insisted that both the case of Eliza, the explanation allows us to eliminate the problematic nature of things, we've all been in situations life in which we had to explain, especially when something is not clear enough or not understood, .. and if it is to think for myself, I'm doing, and that's why I wanted an explanation of TS.
In this respect, indeed, my apologies for having asked for an explanation.
Should I admit that when I wrote apologizing for having TS asked for an explanation I was a little ironic, because I had the perception that TS with that response was a little proud, as he himself said it is your choice if you write or not write and nothing is going to force to send another post, so I will refrain from asking explanations and I'm going to wait and see how things are happening.
I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS
You call that humble? Throwing accusations at people like that while you are even admitting yourself now it's only just a theory? That's not humble at all, that's just plain wrong. And I don't take what I like most, I think and use my head and I can see the bigger picture here.
Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind.
Blind? As in what? What do I not see here? Your logic? No I don't see your logic, does that make me blind? So in other words people that do not support your theory full of holes are blind sheep? Again: is that humble? I asked many times to come up with a coherent theory to support your claims and I haven't seen one still. I have never said you were blind not to believe me, please reread my posts. I also never attacked anyone for his/her opinion, I only opposed it with valid arguments, like I do with everything I disagree with. As soon as I reply to Mo, I get you on my back, attacking me by saying I am blind? What's up Puff? What's the deal here? And where did I say history? I think I used the word ARCHIVE.
Again, your theory and Mo's do not make sense at all so far and if you want to convince people, provide us with a story that does make sense. Since this is going in circles and both you and Mo have seem to have made up your minds about this, I am done. I have posted enough good arguments to support my point of view and I am repeating myself. If you don't want to see it, then don't see it. And please do not twist MY words. I have asked you lots of questions to support your theory, you answered ZERO. Answer them before you question me, because I took the effort many times already to answer your questions.
The fact that you have another opinion doesn't mean yours is right and others are blind sheep Puff. Note that I never claimed that the other way around. Why are you so desperate to convince people with your shaky theory?
Well Souza, and what did you do? Didn't you silence all those people who opposed to TS/TIAI? I was not born yesterday, I know what happened … So the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't need to convince anyone, I provided you enough FACTS that you have rejected just with: "TS said so, and TS claimed so….. " TS is not gospel…. Again, what TS stated is REALLY what Michael wants?
and yes, all this story made you blind, you rejected Michael's words, just because TS claimed the contrary, what can I call it…? You can call it: " think for yourself" I call it "following someone blindly".. We agree to disagree.
You can come up with the fact that nobody has debunked the dangerous autograph, I can say that the last "6" is not a "6" but a "0", again my vision against yours. I can say that the 'arrow' doesn't mean "subtract" in maths, but then you will come up with something else… It will be an endless story…
I'm not going to repeat myself, keep ignoring what I've already provided you ~you skipped the whole "dangerous autograph" part in my previous reply ( and all the other replies that I gave you during those days as well) ~ that's fine by me, but don't tell me that I didn't give you anything because maybe YOU need to re-read all my posts and if you don't find them logical then that' s not my problem anymore…
Again and for the last time: what facts Puff? And you didn't answer any of my questions, you only attacked TS' posts so that's what I refuted. My problem is and never has been questioning things or TS for that matter, it is and always has been disrespect to others. That's all I have to say to you and yes, let's agree to disagree. But next time get your facts straight before you throw mud in people's faces.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS
You call that humble? Throwing accusations at people like that while you are even admitting yourself now it's only just a theory? That's not humble at all, that's just plain wrong. And I don't take what I like most, I think and use my head and I can see the bigger picture here.
Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind.
Blind? As in what? What do I not see here? Your logic? No I don't see your logic, does that make me blind? So in other words people that do not support your theory full of holes are blind sheep? Again: is that humble? I asked many times to come up with a coherent theory to support your claims and I haven't seen one still. I have never said you were blind not to believe me, please reread my posts. I also never attacked anyone for his/her opinion, I only opposed it with valid arguments, like I do with everything I disagree with. As soon as I reply to Mo, I get you on my back, attacking me by saying I am blind? What's up Puff? What's the deal here? And where did I say history? I think I used the word ARCHIVE.
Again, your theory and Mo's do not make sense at all so far and if you want to convince people, provide us with a story that does make sense. Since this is going in circles and both you and Mo have seem to have made up your minds about this, I am done. I have posted enough good arguments to support my point of view and I am repeating myself. If you don't want to see it, then don't see it. And please do not twist MY words. I have asked you lots of questions to support your theory, you answered ZERO. Answer them before you question me, because I took the effort many times already to answer your questions.
The fact that you have another opinion doesn't mean yours is right and others are blind sheep Puff. Note that I never claimed that the other way around. Why are you so desperate to convince people with your shaky theory?
Well Souza, and what did you do? Didn't you silence all those people who opposed to TS/TIAI? I was not born yesterday, I know what happened … So the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't need to convince anyone, I provided you enough FACTS that you have rejected just with: "TS said so, and TS claimed so….. " TS is not gospel…. Again, what TS stated is REALLY what Michael wants?
and yes, all this story made you blind, you rejected Michael's words, just because TS claimed the contrary, what can I call it…? You can call it: " think for yourself" I call it "following someone blindly".. We agree to disagree.
You can come up with the fact that nobody has debunked the dangerous autograph, I can say that the last "6" is not a "6" but a "0", again my vision against yours. I can say that the 'arrow' doesn't mean "subtract" in maths, but then you will come up with something else… It will be an endless story…
I'm not going to repeat myself, keep ignoring what I've already provided you ~you skipped the whole "dangerous autograph" part in my previous reply ( and all the other replies that I gave you during those days as well) ~ that's fine by me, but don't tell me that I didn't give you anything because maybe YOU need to re-read all my posts and if you don't find them logical then that' s not my problem anymore…
Again and for the last time: what facts Puff? And you didn't answer any of my questions, you only attacked TS' posts so that's what I refuted. My problem is and never has been questioning things or TS for that matter, it is and always has been disrespect to others. That's all I have to say to you and yes, let's agree to disagree. But next time get your facts straight before you throw mud in people's faces.
For the last time... I GAVE you the 1998 autograph fact (and not only that), but you chose to ignore it.
Don't forget, TS gave you ASSUMPTIONS about it......
First of all TS's post arent any more better than any of ours or any less than ours. I feel that everyone who has posted on this forum has either had thought of something no one else has thought of or helped someone who felt they couldnt go on anymore. I like the bit in the TS post that says something along the lines of they dont post straight away as they would respond in an emotive way which could bring problems/arguments on the forum. Also if TS is who they say they are and if it is in fact MJ then we are sorry TS but we get vocal when it comes to figuring out the truth and also we on the forum dont want to add anymore pressure on MJ because he has gone through enough already.
To those on the forum,the thing we have in common is believing MJ is alive but we must act in a mature and respectful way, the closer we get to the end of this hoax the more difficult it will get,there is no doubt about that. We should all start on a clean slate starting now. I appreciate each and everyone one this forum and I'm sure everyone appreciates each other on here too. I pray we can get through this together and united. We are all brothers and sisters here and we dont stand before or behind one another but we stand together.
Comments
I found this a rather odd thing for TS to say. It's like he's saying we can believe whatever we like if it makes it easier for us. Since when was this hoax about easy and believing whatever? Of course he's right - we CAN believe whatever we like, and to some extent we probably do - but it doesn't make it the truth. If he's about pointing us to the truth, it seemed a strange comment to me, that's all.
And regarding Elvis/MJ parallels and connections, I understood that MJ always studied 'the greats', then added his own twist/alterations - e.g. he didn't go with an open casket because it hadn't been a runaway success in Elvis' case. So, for me, just because Elvis didn't tell his father doesn't mean MJ did the same. I would think it very possible that he took on board how bad Elvis felt about not telling his father and decided not to do the same.
[BTW, I wonder what reason Elvis had for not telling his father at the beginning and why he was going to be told after 3 years. I cannot imagine making a decision like that - I can only think that it must've been for some really serious, life-threatening reason or else I can't help but view it as cold and heartless. The same goes for Lisa Marie, I can't get my head around doing that to your child.]
NOT because your opinions are different from my own, but because they don't make much sense and usually you make a lot of sense...???
Every opinion makes sence, if you like it or not, because every human being has the right to give his/hers.
*all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights*
Who are you to judge, who gives you the rights?
I know that this is not true but Mo definitely doesn't sound like herself. No offense Mo but there is no logic in your theories.
Start reading again and perhaps you can find it.
And Mo definitely sounds like herself.
Every theory has logics in it if you like it or not.
There are always 2 sides ....yours and the other persons...
But the truth could be also somewhere in the middle...
That is the truth and nothing more and nothing less.
But the question is also....will the truth prevail....
And i am old enough to say from my own experience...
No.... Sometimes it DOES NOT.
People are asking a genuine question since Mo is on a mission to oppose everything regarding TS or the Eliza case. She bases her opinion on assumptions and theories and that is fine as long as she stops dissing others telling them they are sheep and implying she is the only one who can think for herself. I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but if someone else posted the same as Mo, that person would have gotten the exact same reply and believe me, they would have had the same reply from HER as well a few weeks ago. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, so do we and when I see things that I don't agree with, I reply and post my arguments, Mo is no exception. I didn't diss her, I didn't attack her, I simply questioned her post. I have no reason to give her special treatment. As you have stated before, we are here to investigate. So why should it be ok for Mo to oppose TS' posts, but we can't oppose hers? Do we need to believe everything she says or should we simply ignore her posts? That's a little strange and to me THAT is narrow-minded.
If you are such a fighter for the right to voice your opinion, I wonder where you were when the two of us were attacked for the various theories we posted? Never ever have you posted before, what makes this case so special? My red flags are up as well.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Souza! I just wanted to say that you have my full support. I totally agree with you.
Why are people starting to oppose the Hoax -theory WITHOUT answering all the important questions? To me it is just seems ignorant to do that when TS is the ONLY ONE so far to provide us with a big picture that makes sens and are connecting all the important pieces/dots.
Sorry Souza, you kept repeating that Mo based her opinion on assumptions and theories, but this hoax as well is based on assumptions and theories, how do you know for sure that is what MJ really wants? Have you any kind of facts that can prove that this is indeed MJ's wish...? IF you have it please, show us, and I'm not talking about TS' posts because they are NOT enough... numbers and Tii predictions don't prove anything!
I stated a hundred times that this is all based on assumptions and theories, please read my posts. I question Mo's theories and assumptions because to me they don't make sense and that is why I ask questions and ask her to explain her theories based on a coherent theory so that it makes sense. You and Mo both claim that we don't think for ourselves based on a theory of your own and not based on facts, and I refuted that by clearly showing I do think for myself. Until now I have had no answers to my questions. Like I said, opposing and questioning things is ok, but come up with good arguments to make your theory believable. Until then, accept that people like me will keep questioning your posts. If TS' posts are not enough for you then that is fine by me, no one says you have to believe it or read it. But when you keep violently opposing it you need to come up with arguments that actually make sense, or you will face the risk that people disagree with you.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I have no problem if people disagree with me, but since this hoax and TS' posts are based on assumptions and theories how is it possible to not base our comments on theories and assumptions as well...? We don't know and you don't know as well...
TS wrote about the dangerous autograph and the fact that it is the proof that the hoax has a big purpose, but who said that Michael himself signed that autograph? We have seen some many MJ's signatures.... you are ASSUMING that mj himself signed it, but you could be right and you could be wrong....
Michael himself has never talked about the number 999 or 333.. again you can assume that those numbers are MJ connected... or is it the truth just because TS said it?
TS asked us to go to the media, because the world must know that MJ is still alive, but do you realize we are exposing michael jackson even if we have no proofs this is worth for HIS life?
Where can I find the sheep theory Mo wrote
I was searching for it can someone help me out?
Chappie
Puff, his is going in circles and I get the feeling that whatever I say, you will oppose it. Fine, that's not my problem because I will keep backing up my replies.
The 1998 Dangerous Autograph code was signed by Mike. It was on his normal Dangerous album cover, the limited edition, on guitars, fedorahs and what else he signed. This autograph code includes 333 and 999 (if you understand the math of course) and since he signed with that autograph multiple times I would say yes, I know he mentioned those numbers himself many times. Unless you have a different thought about that of course like Mike never released the Dangerous album himself?
If you would listen to his songs, his speeches and look at his art and symbolism it is also quite clear that exposing TPTB has always been on his agenda. Unless you think he never gave those speeches or sang those songs himself, or got chicken shit and peeped out? But then I ask you: why make it so obvious that this is all a hoax? Why not just crash with a plane and get over with it? Why no open casket? Why all the BS the last 18 months (see the index of this website)?
TS' posts are just based on assumption and theory? That's your opinion, I disagree and I have said many times why I do, I will not repeat myself anymore. You and Mo seem to be desperate to debunk TS and convince others that he is a fraud. As long as that happens, I will be right here debunking your posts, because there are big holes in your theories and it is my right to point them out.
Last but not least, I will again ask you a counter question although it will probably stay unanswered like all the other questions I asked: If exposing the MJ hoax is dangerous for Mike, then WHY is this website still online? Is the whole family evil? They have not attempted once to shut this down. Never have they spoken out against it. I have always said that this site will be history as soon as the family would contact us that he is in danger because of it.
Again: I never said I was right or you were wrong, I simply said I make more sense. I am still waiting for that coherent theory that backs up your and Mo's theory.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Good looking out! x] <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
I don't know exactly what's been going on lately but in one respect the opposing views of the admins could be seen as a good thing if they're not at war with each other and the site remains. If Mo and Souza had exactly the same view on everything surely that would be more worrying? It might surprise some that Mo has started to question TS but I think we need differing viewpoints to balance us and make us think twice about everything. What intrigues me is the references to pentagrams she mentioned the other day and what she believes the significance of that is, there is a lot of what she says that makes sense but in relation to this hoax as a whole, the BIG picture, I'd like to know what her belief now is concerning all that we've seen and discovered the past 18 months, even after taking TS out of the equation. Assuming as she seems to suggest now that he is a fraud, where does that leave her as an investigator, what does she think now the real story might be? We know she has serious doubts about TS but as I've said before we're not here because of TS we're here because of Michael.
L.O.V.E!! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Sure, here in her own words:
She shouldn't speak for others. If she felt she was fooled because she never really questioned TS' posts, then fine, but that isn't the same for me or others on this board.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Who said that Michael himself didn't release the Dangerous album? I know very well that he spread that message all over his life and career but that doen't mean that he decided to hoax his death for it!
I was just saying that Michael probably didn't sign THAT autograph, and I'm curious, where is that autograph now if it has such important meaning...?
He signed various autograph with 1998 thing, but JUST one of them revealed the hoax thing, curious......
According to TS: The other "1998" autographs:
Souza, maybe you don't get the point, I'm not saying that Michael is dead and they killed him, I'm saying that probably Michael didn't plan THIS hoax...
You know that the estate HAS the power to shut down websites with michael jackson name in the domains...? Food for thoughts.......
If there are holes in my theories is just because no one knows the truth so it's impossible that all the story matches perfectly. I know people prefer to take what they like the most, but this colud not be necessarly the truth and I'm just being humble in questioning TS because we don't know who is it and I've never talked to Michael one to one, like none of us ever did, including you.That's why I feel very unconfortable exposing MJ to the media. It's sad that people seem to forget all of a sudden what Michael has always thought about the media. It seems like they're more intrigued with all that happened after June 25, 2009 rather than Michael's message and life.Of course he gave those speeches and sang those songs himself, but this doesn't explain the use of those numbers the way TS wrote. It remains a theory. We didn't see an open casket just because he wasn't inside of course. Again, that doesn't suggest this is an hoax the way you call it. I see the index of this website and many of those you call clues maybe are like that just because you want to see them like that. Souza, I really think that your idea of this website being history one day has completely made you blind. The Jackson family will never contact you because they've got better and more serious things to deal with. This website won't be shut down as well as the other many death hoax forums. Michael faked his death and most likely he'd better think about how to be in contact with his kids, just to give you an example. Or do you think he is monitoring this forum day by day? I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, I'm just saying I make more sense.
P.S
you are not debunking my post, you are just twisting words...
I'm sorry Puff but we are many who think that you are not making much sense (no offence) because you don't answerer Souza questions and you don't provide us with a big picture of things... I don't know about all of you guys but to me what Souza says makes much more sense <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
You call that humble? Throwing accusations at people like that while you are even admitting yourself now it's only just a theory? That's not humble at all, that's just plain wrong. And I don't take what I like most, I think and use my head and I can see the bigger picture here.
Blind? As in what? What do I not see here? Your logic? No I don't see your logic, does that make me blind? So in other words people that do not support your theory full of holes are blind sheep? Again: is that humble? I asked many times to come up with a coherent theory to support your claims and I haven't seen one still. I have never said you were blind not to believe me, please reread my posts. I also never attacked anyone for his/her opinion, I only opposed it with valid arguments, like I do with everything I disagree with. As soon as I reply to Mo, I get you on my back, attacking me by saying I am blind? What's up Puff? What's the deal here? And where did I say history? I think I used the word ARCHIVE.
Again, your theory and Mo's do not make sense at all so far and if you want to convince people, provide us with a story that does make sense. Since this is going in circles and both you and Mo have seem to have made up your minds about this, I am done. I have posted enough good arguments to support my point of view and I am repeating myself. If you don't want to see it, then don't see it. And please do not twist MY words. I have asked you lots of questions to support your theory, you answered ZERO. Answer them before you question me, because I took the effort many times already to answer your questions.
The fact that you have another opinion doesn't mean yours is right and others are blind sheep Puff. Note that I never claimed that the other way around. Why are you so desperate to convince people with your shaky theory?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."My personal opinion about the case of Eliza is Eliza's case was not clarified by TS, still persist in my doubts and confusion, I must say I'm not saying that the DNA submitted by Eliza is false, simply did not meet the protocol legal gathering, and now is the fact that handwriting results are not accepted by the courts according to research published by Serenitys_Dream. Perhaps TS refirion Eliza both the case of scientific evidence and proof that Elvis is alive, but he also spoke of the double "BAM" this past summer Eliza referring to the success of the court and we are seeing that the case is complicated.
This evidence may make the judge makes his own personal interpretation of a subjective way and forget about the legal protocol?, I do not know, am not a lawyer or judge or pretend to be, I'll wait to see what happens.
I think the acceptance of the views of others is an act of maturity, I can accept other opinions even disagree with them, but quite immature completely deny
To accept and integrate critical observations on the other (positive or negative), it is important to know listening and reading. Seemingly, we all know to do so. In practice, many people have authentic difficulties to do so. Contrary, practise selective reading. I.e. selected unconsciously fragments that were tells them, what they want to read or hear, and not all of the message. I or any of us can not be based on an idea or theory, so that idea or theory come TS,... or Michael Jackson.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."The Elvis-connection is undeniable and I am aware of the fact that everything going on in this matter, be it legal cases or estate affairs, cannot be dealt with as they are done under "normal" circumstances, because the people involved have been officially declared "dead", which makes it extremely difficult, if lives are at stake f.e.
You are a brilliant writer, and I like to read between the lines a lot, no matter how long your posts are.
Your latest post helps me understand more than I did before, even if not everything is on the surface.
In a time where some people tend to write superficial texts, you take great care to compose a text and have something to say with a meaning.
I shall believe in your integrity as long as I have not been convinced of the contrary, which has not happened up to now.
Please, forgive all doubters, don't take it personally. It's all for a common goal - to find the truth, justice for people, who may not be in a position to fight for it themselves.
All attacks are justified, as those who have doubts, are only looking for It is hard to tell who is behind a username, be it XYZ, TS, an admin, a moderator, just any bloody name can hide someone you didn't expect.
So it is only a way of protection not to be too blind and ask questions.
We have been fooled so many times in this "hoax", and we don't want to be fooled again.
Everybody with a common sense of mind understands: This is real, not fiction.
All members here have their detective glasses on and are looking for answers.
Whenever you want to communicate and tell us something, please do. I am looking forward to it <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> and hope you come back often.
Well Souza, and what did you do? Didn't you silence all those people who opposed to TS/TIAI? I was not born yesterday, I know what happened … So the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't need to convince anyone, I provided you enough FACTS that you have rejected just with: "TS said so, and TS claimed so….. " TS is not gospel…. Again, what TS stated is REALLY what Michael wants?
and yes, all this story made you blind, you rejected Michael's words, just because TS claimed the contrary, what can I call it…? You can call it: " think for yourself" I call it "following someone blindly".. We agree to disagree.
You can come up with the fact that nobody has debunked the dangerous autograph, I can say that the last "6" is not a "6" but a "0", again my vision against yours. I can say that the 'arrow' doesn't mean "subtract" in maths, but then you will come up with something else… It will be an endless story…
I'm not going to repeat myself, keep ignoring what I've already provided you ~you skipped the whole "dangerous autograph" part in my previous reply ( and all the other replies that I gave you during those days as well) ~ that's fine by me, but don't tell me that I didn't give you anything because maybe YOU need to re-read all my posts and if you don't find them logical then that' s not my problem anymore…
Well, actually not that Mo call people sheep, would have to explain herself.
I also asked him a very polite to TS an explanation in relation to the case of Eliza, and I say, for me his explanation was not clear, I think is a little annoying that, because some people will ask for an explanation This was one of his answers, and what I wrote:
Should I admit that when I wrote apologizing for having TS asked for an explanation I was a little ironic, because I had the perception that TS with that response was a little proud, as he himself said it is your choice if you write or not write and nothing is going to force to send another post, so I will refrain from asking explanations and I'm going to wait and see how things are happening.
Again and for the last time: what facts Puff? And you didn't answer any of my questions, you only attacked TS' posts so that's what I refuted. My problem is and never has been questioning things or TS for that matter, it is and always has been disrespect to others. That's all I have to say to you and yes, let's agree to disagree. But next time get your facts straight before you throw mud in people's faces.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."For the last time... I GAVE you the 1998 autograph fact (and not only that), but you chose to ignore it.
Don't forget, TS gave you ASSUMPTIONS about it......
To those on the forum,the thing we have in common is believing MJ is alive but we must act in a mature and respectful way, the closer we get to the end of this hoax the more difficult it will get,there is no doubt about that. We should all start on a clean slate starting now. I appreciate each and everyone one this forum and I'm sure everyone appreciates each other on here too. I pray we can get through this together and united. We are all brothers and sisters here and we dont stand before or behind one another but we stand together.