bec wrote: "The problem is we are researching an ongoing event and trying to understand and decipher what already did happen as well as predict what will come to pass in the future. Things change, new information comes out, we need to stay open minded."
I have to say, bec, that this is one of the most cogent statements I have ever read on this Forum about the Hoax....an OPEN MIND has to be maintained AT ALL TIMES....this entire thing is UNPRECEDENTED!! We are priveleged to be part of a Chosen Few to be on the ground floor....the ones with FRONT ROW SEATS...those that follow this Forum are a MINISCULE MINORITY compared to the world's population....when and if Michael ever reveals himself again, we will be charter members of the "I Told You So" Club...in other words...
I have absolutely no concrete way of knowing if this Insider is legit or not...but think of how many other tentacles of this Hoax this could be said about....I suggest we TAKE IT ALL IN....FILTER IT...not be GULLIBLE, but not be CYNICAL...ANYTHING is possible here....literally ANYTHING....we are talking about perhaps one of the greatest minds/souls/spirits of our time...Michael...who NEVER ceases to amaze...in Life...in "Death"...it appears that his influence and effect is going to be eternal....how lucky we are to "get it" before the majority of the world...we are blessed!
Q: Where the TII dancers aware that this about the hoax?
A: No, but the signed confidentiality agreements and knew TII was a movie.
We know this already nothing new there. This has been posted on the board months and months ago.
A: The dancers/actors believe Michael is alive but they don't know specifics.
This "insider" has no way of knowing that, this is a theory and we have discussed this at length before. It is common sense that the less people involved in the actual hoax, the more successful the hoax will be. A need to know basis and only those that are very close to Michael and that he trusts would be involved.
They way Michael is Dressed in the film TII. We already know that TII was filmed as a movie and not as rehearsal footage. We are aware of how Michael dressed in his previous rehearsal and in concert, there are many rehearsal and concert footage videos on youtube. All movies have "costumes" and this is not new information at all.
Return Date The "insider" is not able to answer this just as all of us aren't. They are not a true insider and admits that they have "theories" (that is if this person really exists at all).
Elvis We already know about Elvis and the connections with Michael and the possibility that Eliza's court case may reveal that he is actually alive. This has been extensively discussed on the forums, TS posts, LMP discussions etc. and there are many youtube videos about this.
Branca and McClain The "insider' suggests that they may be removed from handling the estate...hmmm
There have been many questions previously brought up about Branca & McClain from the very start.The family originally tried to have the removed as executors of the estate. They are also handling the Kurt Cobain estate and Courtney Love has been vocal about their mismanagement of that estate and they may very well be under investigation from wrong doing in that case but we do not know for sure. Hazel and Twiggy have been posting on twitter, a forum and a blog all about this for months and we are aware of issues regarding the possibility of a false will etc. A person who works in the entertainment industry may very well be aware of this situation as are any of us in the hoax world. This "insider" is not providing any further information about this situation, it appears that they only know as much as we are already aware of and IMO this is just their "theory" on the situation. Nothing new here.
Removal of people involved in Epic, Legacy etc. The "insider" says that we should be aware that this is going to take place within the next 12 months and we will Michael's hand in that. If this is to take place and was common knowledge to be occurring within the next 12 months wouldn't the people who are going to be removed also be aware of that? and if not they sure would be now..
You have to ask yourself if a singer/backup singer/dancer (or whatever this "insider" claims to be) would be privy to that kind of information and would Michael actually tell people he was going to instigate that in the future? Also does Michael have that much power to affect these other companies? How much involvement does he have with those record labels and can he influence the day to day business of them and for what purpose? This again comes across as theory based on possible rumours and speculation but is not a fact at this point.
TMZ We are well aware of the TMZ connection. I wrote a post about the connections months ago. TS used that in one of their updates to show TMZ was an "informer". We know TMZ seems to have information before other media and that sometimes TMZ has unusual stories. This is not new to us at all, it has been discussed at length and we are already following TMZ faithfully. Nothing new here.
The TII Dancers Crying at the start of the film We know this is it was filmed as a movie and not rehearsal footage, we have known this since the movie was released and have extensively discussed it. The "insider" tells us that it was shot out of sequence. well this is how all movies/videos are filmed. Any movie is actually created in the editing process and it doesn't take an insider to know that nor is it unusual. As for the music during these scenes, this is also not unusual, music is in movies to give ambiance, atmosphere and that is point of music in all movies. It doesn't take an insider to figure that out at all.
People mentioned as "in the know" on the hoax and that Michael is alive The insider does not know for sure who is aware that this is hoax. They use wording throughout the video such as "i believe", "my theories" etc. This "insider: (if the exist at all) is telling us their theories, what they think about the situation and not what they know. There is no doubt that some people know that Michael is alive and others have come to believe that he is alive, just as we have. There is the possibility that some people were brought back into Michael's life at this time to expose them for their previous wrong doings; possibly as a pay back of sorts ie Karen Faye, Randy Jackson come to mind. We have believed from the start that Kenny Ortega was involved and that only makes sense since he was involved in the rehearsals, the production of the movie and has given many clues through twitter and interviews. This is not new information and again previously discussed on the forums. These are theories and speculation about who is involved and these are not facts being provided from an insider.
Sony Everything that was stated about Sony in the video has been previously discussed by us. The "insider" says that Sony will release "Michael Jackson" material for the next 5-7 years ---> 2015 - 2017. We know about the contract that the estate signed with Sony, it was for 7 years so that's not new. This is also implying that Michael will not be returning for at least 5-7 more years...hmm What about Michael saying that we only have 4 years to get this right ---> 2012. If anything that may be a clue to the final return date that has been chosen and TS has said there was are possible return dates but that there is a final date that Michael has chosen to return by no matter what. In essence the "insider" is no more informed about this than we are. They cover their ass by saying that they wouldn't reveal that anyway because their allegiance is to Michael. I say "Oh really, than what is going on with these videos anyway" this person has no direct contact with Michael and everything they are stating is just theories and many of those can be found on this very forum. Later the informer goes on to say that Michael was still working with Sony. Well we already know this too as there was a contract between Sony and Michael in 2006. This isn't inside information at all.
Branca & McClain Again The Insider previously stated that Branca & McClain are going to be removed from the estate implying that they are "bad" and now they are suggesting that these two are involved in the hoax by knowing that the TII was not rehearsal footage but actually filmed as a movie. The "insider" also says that Branca & McClain have enough material for the next 50 years but in actuality if there is this material is not held by Branca & McClain at all but by the estate and the informer previously suggested that these two would be removed from the estate. CONTRADICTIONS! They can not be both bad and involved in the hoax, this is not making sense and the infromer should make up their mind. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Diane Diamond This is not new information we are all aware of Diane Diamond, her agenda, her association with Tom Sneddon. She also appeared on Michael's "Hit List" of those who were involved in working against him. Old news!
David Manning The information on this is readily available on wikipedia and other sources. Not inside information.
"David Manning" was a fictitious film critic, created by a marketing executive working for Sony Corporation around July 2000 to give consistently good reviews for releases from Sony subsidiary Columbia Pictures. Several blurbs posted under the name "David Manning" were written for the medieval action/drama A Knight's Tale (citing Heath Ledger as "this year's hottest new star!") and Rob Schneider's comedy The Animal ("Another winner!"), the latter of which generally received very poor reviews by real critics.
David Manning was named after a friend of Matthew Cramer, the Sony marketing executive responsible for the insertions. Manning was credited to The Ridgefield Press, a small Connecticut weekly. During an investigation into Manning's quotes, Newsweek reporter John Horn discovered that the newspaper had never heard of him. Horn disclosed the truth about Manning in a June 2001 article in Newsweek, which emerged at around the same time as an announcement that Sony had used employees posing as moviegoers in television commercials to praise Mel Gibson's The Patriot. These occurrences, in tandem, raised questions and controversy about ethics in movie marketing practices.
On the June 10, 2001 episode of Le Show, host Harry Shearer conducted an in-studio interview with David Manning. The voice of Manning was provided by a computer voice synthesizer.
Some time after news of the hoax became widespread, actor Bryan Cranston, then a lead in the US television sitcom Malcolm in the Middle, took out a print advertisement in entertainment trade papers recommending his work to Emmy Awards voters. The ad featured positive comments from Mr. Manning as a joke.
On August 3, 2005, Sony made an out-of-court settlement and agreed to refund $5 each to dissatisfied customers who saw Hollow Man, The Animal, The Patriot, A Knight's Tale, or Vertical Limit in American theatres, under the impression that it would be a great movie due to Manning's reviews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Manning_%28fictitious_writer%29
I am sorry but IMO this isn't proving anything about Sony and their involvement in the "fabricating Michael's voice" on the album or their actual knowledge of a hoax. I think that Michael has key people involved at Sony but this isn't the entire organization, Michael seems to have specific, individuals involved in different organizations linked to the hoax. The less people involved the more successful the hoax, the more people involve the higher the chances of unintended information being revealed or something being said too early.
Randy Jackson The "insider" states that Randy was Michael's most trusted friend and confidante. I take issue with this statement because I have begun to wonder if Randy is actually in the know and this is for several reasons. This statement has also been written in several tabloids but I am starting to wonder if Randy is a "Judas" figure in all this. Michael was close to Randy prior to 2005. During 2005 it came to light that KF, Randy, Taunya Zilkie (Randy's GF) and others were involved in a fan site in which they were scamming fans. Michael found out closed the site down, refunded the fans money and fired them all. This situation leads me to believe that none of these people are trusted nor close to Michael after this incident. So I will say here that IMO this information from the "insider" is FALSE and reflects badly on their legitimacy.
"Sparsely used voice" in the new album This is feeding into a controversy that already exists and we already know about. In actuality, only 3 of the 10 songs have only been questioned that isn't "Sparsely"; that means 7 of the 10 songs are not questioned as being Michael. This is not a factual statement but purely speculative by the "insider" and anyone else. It also feels like a way of trying to gain credibility by reiterating statements that have been made by others and confirming the beliefs of some people. Confirmation through already held and publicized beliefs; "oh yes, this insider says that I am right in what I thought about the new album, so they must be telling the truth".
Robert Alexander Giles This impersonator seems somewhat famous in his own right for his voice. I don't know if he had this before the hoax began or after as I was not an MJ fan and I have never heard of him before. He looks nothing like Michael so it's pretty doubtful that he is actually in the movie TII (but of course I could be wrong :lol). If there were going to use doubles in the movie, to try and fool us, they would have wanted people who looked similar to Michael wouldn't they?
The fact that he exists doesn't mean he had anything to do with vocals on the new album and the vocals have supposedly been Forensically analyzed by at least two professionals. It is possible that someone was used to complete the songs but anything is possible. The 'insider' has not provided proof that this is the case though and they are not an expert in Forensic voice analyzation. Again, this is just speculation and providing a possible person who may have been involved. A lot of possibilities but not facts. I would think that a forensic voice analysis, would reveal that the voice had been altered by effects to make it sound like MJ and no reputable examiner would put their career on the line to certify falsely that this Michael, if it wasn't. The reported impersonator who claims to have "possibly" created vocals for the album is named Ricky Galliano and he can't even be sure he actually did that. Seems shady...http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/michael-jackson-impersonator-on-michael_1185856and he has come up previously on the forums as well.
[youtube:3fl2v55k]
To sum it up: These videos are presenting things we are aware of already. The insider doesn't have any information that we haven't previously discovered and is readily available on the Internet. The information is mix of facts, theories, speculations and is nothing new. I make videos too, if I told you I had an informer would you believe me without providing any information about that informer? If I said that I was in contact with an "insider" would it make my videos more believable? If I repeated everything that was already on the forums and presented that in my videos in a chronological way, would you believe that I knew more than everyone else? Would I have more credibility with you even though my source remains anonymous and not even established as an actual source? If I say I have a source, do my theories then become more credible and the truth?
I could simply say that I have source...
Do you believe me? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
You hit the nail on the head!! I felt the same way when I watched it <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
This person didn't tell us anything new. We had already known the things s/he told us about TII. I believe that this is definitely a fake!
That's what people say about TS too (no new info) and I think that's more or less true on the surface. It's only when you look closer or read for content you start to realize what they are exactly saying. Might be a similar case here, just a different medium, voice instead of written word. For example, this Informer told us that the dancers were also listed in IMDb as actors and I did not know that before. I had never seen that on any of the forums, never read it in any blog post or news article, and never heard anyone mention it in any chat or convo, ever previous. Now, I'm not saying I've heard every single hoax related rumor out there but, I've been doing this to an obsessive over the top level since 7/09 and that was brand new info for me.
I have read about the fact that the dancers are also actors and are listed at IMDb numerous times. It has been posted on this and other forums before.
Here is just one example:
SD, that post was inspired by the video of the Informer's that talked about this. You said it was one of many though, do you have more examples?
I don't know how to search the old forums and not a member of some of those I was but I read all bout the "cast" of TII also being actors a long time ago. I am not sure but there may have been previous videos about this too on youtube. You will have to forgive me because I thought that this was common knowledge in the hoax world.
The Cast Of Michael Jackson's "This Is It" Movie - 27 September 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUEg7h8bq9A
Comments:
lilmichael212 April 27th, 2010 - 14:01
IT is so funny all the dancers/actors only recall things that are in the movie but the one guy that performed with michael before this is it recalls something that wasnt shown i wonder who is fake?????????????? and i wonder who’s walking around ALIVE??
forevershining1 - April 27th, 2010 - 17:07
So wait.. are yall saying that the dancers and back up singers, etc. are actually actors and actresses from other pieces? Interestttiinnnnggg…
Souza's movie theory, comment made in reference to dancers/actors and posted before the Insiders Part 1 video (which was posted on Sept 23).
This Is It ~ not a wrap yet
Post by ~Souza~ » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 pm Mike allegedly hired a bunch of actors that are still not allowed to talk about the project they worked on. The article is somewhere on the forum, so if anyone has a link to it, that would be great.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=107&t=14272<!-- l -->
A post on the other forum discussing the dancers.
Post by See » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:04 am
Appearances of Michael Jackson alive after 25th are staged with both actors/dancers as well as real Michael Jackson so that everybody thinks that he -Michael- is staging this hoax, this way nobody comes looking for Michael Jackson - not even when he stops publishing music and disappears!
BAM - Contracts!!
post by kingwillreturn » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:22 am We learned in the early days of the hoax, that the "Actors" in TII were contracted for two years, We wondered why when the concerts were only for a few months, not two years? but now we see the TII dancer/actress in the Wii game commercial.
So for the advertising campaign to follow his death, Michael had them sign two year contracts.
Now thinking in a logical way, if we can work out when the contracts were signed, we may be able to work out a BAM date, due to the fact, unless they have to sign extensions to the contracts, that after the date that the contracts end, the let's call them "Cast" of the hoax, would then be free to talk and blow the hoax out of the water. http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=12861
The fact that the dancers are actors has been discussed before. It was discussed even earlier than these posts and comments. If I recall correctly, BOW also talked about the dancers being actors, after it had been previously discussed and before these videos came out. I don't believe she is an insider either. But as I said, it was a long time ago so I can't locate the original posts etc. I did think that most of us, who had been investigating the hoax, were aware that the dancers were also actors. I had read the IMDb site months ago, well before 2good2btrue posted the screen shots.
I have absolutely no reason to be deceptive, I would love for there to be an insider. For someone to be really telling us the truth or revealing things we aren't aware of. So far this person hasn't done that and the information is not fact it is speculation, belief and theories; we have that already... and it really bothers me that someone may be dishonest about what they know and how they know it, even if they are presenting real information (though we know this stuff already anyway).
Everyone is free to believe (or not believe) in whom ever or whatever they choose. Sadly, after evaluating the videos I can not put my faith in this "informer" maybe something will be revealed to change that in the future.
My feeling watching this Q&A is through and through logic. We must not let us fall into the 'emotion' trap, so, leaving all emotion aside I feel the information is very valid. Having 'her' saying that some high position holders in the mentioned record companies should get the blue letter and that Michael only dealt with the highest levels in business just confirms for me what I have thought ever since, that Michael is one of the most powerful people in show business - let's NOT forget he dealt with the CEOs since the age of 19 and had them going HIS way. On top of that I can't help thinking that Michael sets everyone on his 'Hit List' up to blow their cover in the big finale for ALL the naysayers to see, that they were SOOOOOOO wrong. It really feels like a Vendetta.
I like these videos - regardless of infos we've already came across ourselves. Maybe we rather should see this information as a CONFIRMATION than an 'oh, she doesn't come up with anything we've not already know'.
ANYTHING is possible. I for myself believe, that it's payback time for Michael <!-- s --><!-- s -->
My feeling watching this Q&A is through and through logic. We must not let us fall into the 'emotion' trap, so, leaving all emotion aside I feel the information is very valid. Having 'her' saying that some high position holders in the mentioned record companies should get the blue letter and that Michael only dealt with the highest levels in business just confirms for me what I have thought ever since, that Michael is one of the most powerful people in show business - let's NOT forget he dealt with the CEOs since the age of 19 and had them going HIS way. On top of that I can't help thinking that Michael sets everyone on his 'Hit List' up to blow their cover in the big finale for ALL the naysayers to see, that they were SOOOOOOO wrong. It really feels like a Vendetta.
I like these videos - regardless of infos we've already came across ourselves. Maybe we rather should see this information as a CONFIRMATION than an 'oh, she doesn't come up with anything we've not already know'.
ANYTHING is possible. I for myself believe, that it's payback time for Michael <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I too totally agree with you........ well said <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
We need to tread carefully before we assume that the "insider" is correct. Michael has stated many times before (as well as TS) that we need to base our conclusions on evidence---logic and facts and not merely emotion. Do you recall the quote, "Just because you see it in print, or hear it on tv---doesn't make it true"????? Same goes for this medium (Internet video), frankly.
I am particularly bothered by the "insider's" contradiction to Teddy Riley's opinion that the tracks are all authentic "Michael". After all, are we more apt to believe an individual who is a known friend and associate of Michael's....and one who is clearly not afraid to stand up in front of the world and take ridicule for it OR some "insider" who hides behind a false image and synthesized voice?
Clearly hype is being generated and timing is everything in marketing. Did you ever find it highly suspicious that this video is released so close to the Oprah interview? No coincidence, I suspect.
Without hesitation, I will be tuning in to Oprah on Monday only to hear what Teddy has to say on the matter. At this juncture no one else is important.
I agree with michaelsupporter, there have been too many so called "Insiders" and trolls in this hoax. Some of them have felt the need for "15 minutes of fame" and some have even been on here trying to cause a disturbance - I do wonder about their motives at times.
And I wish to say I support Teddy, he has Michael's back !!!
I also agree with @ heisinme09 and @ bec's comments about being open minded and in particular I support your view that "we are blessed"
heisinme09 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:18 am
bec wrote:
"The problem is we are researching an ongoing event and trying to understand and decipher what already did happen as well as predict what will come to pass in the future. Things change, new information comes out, we need to stay open minded."
I have to say, bec, that this is one of the most cogent statements I have ever read on this Forum about the Hoax....an OPEN MIND has to be maintained AT ALL TIMES....this entire thing is UNPRECEDENTED!! We are priveleged to be part of a Chosen Few to be on the ground floor....the ones with FRONT ROW SEATS...those that follow this Forum are a MINISCULE MINORITY compared to the world's population....when and if Michael ever reveals himself again, we will be charter members of the "I Told You So" Club...in other words...
I have absolutely no concrete way of knowing if this Insider is legit or not...but think of how many other tentacles of this Hoax this could be said about....I suggest we TAKE IT ALL IN....FILTER IT...not be GULLIBLE, but not be CYNICAL...ANYTHING is possible here....literally ANYTHING....we are talking about perhaps one of the greatest minds/souls/spirits of our time...Michael...who NEVER ceases to amaze...in Life...in "Death"...it appears that his influence and effect is going to be eternal....how lucky we are to "get it" before the majority of the world...we are blessed!
Okay, considering this "insider`s" concept / message it might be something like this:
1. Sony is well known for it`s copyright protection campaign (for example blockings youtube vids in many countries).
2. MJ was aways super-cautious to protect his music and rights.
3. Sony and MJ own Sony/ATV company whose values (licenses = publishing rights) are quite vunerable because of illegal copies / leakings circulating the net.
4. This is a HUGE topic not only for the whole entertainment business as it hits economy, politics, societies everywhere to major extents (see what damage "wikileaks" could do, not to mention hacking attacks, stalking and threads on the net).
5. The insider says that MJ was on good terms with Sony`s top executives always (true!) but has had his problems only with some head of sections like Tommy Mottola (remember he was fired because of MJ`s claims back then).
6. Sony at large used to help MJ a lot (also financialwise).
7. Sony`s "make.believe" sounds very much Michael ... and may also point to a common goal.
8. The insider tells us to watch the major news (for 12 months at least) on these topics as I understand
- piracy = copyright infringements
- efforts to protect data and publishing rights on the www
- illegal leakings
- fake and forgeries (sounds and pictures, films and books)
- people responsible (those who do - or let happen - these things) are going to be exposed
So I understand some of them at Sony as well as with the estate are going to be exposed and might lose their jobs ... Exposed for editing footage, remastering and polishing demo tapes and using look- and sound-alikes? To make money by fooling the public? A major case of identity theft (using Michael Jackson, the brand)?
I guess it`s not that far fetched to think of an international campaign for net protection purposes for all kind of national, economic, business, political and personal interests of all users worldwide. It`s about time.
Can you imagine the impact it would have? The death of the planet`s most famous person ever - and the aftermath - was "made.believe" to show the world ---- the bigger picture.
SD: I meant substantiated proof not just speculation, regarding the dancers listed on IMDb. Sorry to be flakey, thanks for compiling the info.
How could someone provide "substantiated proof" in an anonymous online video? I don't think it's possible... She could say "I know the TII dancers myself and know they're actors" and you may still not believe it, because anyone could say it. Substantiated proof would be documents, contracts, and a passport showing the precise identity of the alleged insider. We aren't gonna get this, and this is the difficulty insiders (real or fake ones) face.
Just a few comments:
1. How can someone get "15 minutes of fame" when no one knows who they are? Kinda strange...
Anyone claiming to be an insider opens themselves up to the possibility of ridicule and scorn, not just admiration and eternal love.
2. Not knowing the BAM date doesn't mean or prove anything. MJ might not know it himself - I actually highly suspect that he only has an idea, say a certain month or interval, and the precise date depends on various developments.
3. I think all "insiders" must be taken with a grain of salt - cautiousness is always good. This being said, there's no harm in watching any video and wondering whether it makes sense or not. Someone confirming things we already know is good, not bad. (Imagine if someone said TII was merely rehearsal footage! They'd lose their credibility instantly.) If they say something we don't know and is not common knowledge, we still can't necessarily verify it and thus we can't tell whether the person is a true insider or not.
In addition to what I thought before and what you all said, something else bothers me:
This person says that Michael has relations with the top echelon at Sony and mentions Akio Morita (one of the co-founders of Sony Corp.), but Morita died in 1999 and I believe he might have become irrelevant at Sony sometime before that. Moreover, I recall reading (Lynton Guest's book, I think)that Morita was pro-Jackson, but the leadership that followed wasn't gung-ho on Jackson because of the "child molestation" issues and general controversy around MJ. Now it's hard to know what the truth is, but if this "insider" wanted to point out MJ's good relations with Sony, wouldn't she mention another person at Sony (such as current CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment) rather than long-dead Morita?!
I think what we should do with all "insider" info is evaluate it, decide whether it makes sense or not, and WAIT for developments. "Keep watchin'", as BACK loved to say. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> As Serenitys said, we can only be manipulated if we allow ourselves to be.
This person didn't tell us anything new. We had already known the things s/he told us about TII. I believe that this is definitely a fake!
That's what people say about TS too (no new info) and I think that's more or less true on the surface. It's only when you look closer or read for content you start to realize what they are exactly saying. Might be a similar case here, just a different medium, voice instead of written word. For example, this Informer told us that the dancers were also listed in IMDb as actors and I did not know that before. I had never seen that on any of the forums, never read it in any blog post or news article, and never heard anyone mention it in any chat or convo, ever previous. Now, I'm not saying I've heard every single hoax related rumor out there but, I've been doing this to an obsessive over the top level since 7/09 and that was brand new info for me.
I have read about the fact that the dancers are also actors and are listed at IMDb numerous times. It has been posted on this and other forums before.
Here is just one example:
I had known everything so before that so called informer said. With a simple research you can find all of those information. If people are that blind and stupid to compare TS with this one, it's definitely their loss because TS wrote many many things that NOBODY had known like the numerology and etc. We can not compare the two.
And I'm not going to get the bait about Breaking News being a fake because I do get the purpose behind it. I believe that Michael wanted some of his family and friends to tell that song was sung by a voice double BECAUSE we all know what we watched in Breaking News. We watched Michael's "death" in Breaking News. And saying Breaking News (the song) is a fake, is saying MJ's death is fake! That was the purpose. The family said that some of the songs were not sung by MJ but why didn't they say anything for another song? Was it only BN in the whole album? If it wasn't, why don't they come up and say that Much Too Soon or Blue Gansta are fakes too? Because they're not. EVEN IF someone else sang BN, MJ added that song to the album on purpose and that purpose could only to say Breaking News that we watched about his "death" was FAKE! And plus, remember what Teddy wrote about Michael. He said that Michael loves controversy. And I think he got what he wanted and what he wanted to say to us with BN. This is the way I think. And I still think that this insider is a fake too. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
The time is the best hoaxer.
We don't hear why Michael did the hoax and when will be back. These 2 key questions are not answered. Everything else has been said, the info on youtube and here. The only news "insider" said is Branca and McClain will be removed. Will see.
I'm not sure about Michael fighting piracy, because that would mean going against his fans! I imagine this issue being a real struggle for an artist who cares about his work (and profits) but also about his fans... What's someone like MJ to do?!
ALL of Michael's music videos are on YouTube (I think).
"Moonwalker" and "Captain EO" are on YouTube. Hell, even the 3D HD version of "Captain EO" is on YouTube!
Many, if not all, of Michael's concert performances are on YouTube.
That means they're freely available, and many people aren't and won't be willing to pay for them.
Now I'm not aware of any efforts ever being made by Michael or Sony to take that stuff down. (Do tell me if you are.) If that is so, WHY? I always thought it's just a declaration of love from Michael to the fans... After all, the fact that there are so many Michael videos on YouTube in the first place is a declaration of love from "we, the people" to Michael.
But isn't this piracy, when you think about it?! I believe it is. And it looks like L.O.V.E. can equal piracy sometimes. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
So: Hmm, dunno if Michael could fight this or if he even wants to. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
The time is the best hoaxer.
We don't hear why Michael did the hoax and when will be back. These 2 key questions are not answered. Everything else has been said, the info on youtube and here. The only news "insider" said is Branca and McClain will be removed. Will see.
Dominic Cascio confirms ... <!-- s --><!-- s --> Let's wait it out, as Prince said. I can sit back and relax - knowing it will happen. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I'm not sure about Michael fighting piracy, because that would mean going against his fans! I imagine this issue being a real struggle for an artist who cares about his work (and profits) but also about his fans... What's someone like MJ to do?!
ALL of Michael's music videos are on YouTube (I think).
"Moonwalker" and "Captain EO" are on YouTube. Hell, even the 3D HD version of "Captain EO" is on YouTube!
Many, if not all, of Michael's concert performances are on YouTube.
That means they're freely available, and many people aren't and won't be willing to pay for them.
Now I'm not aware of any efforts ever being made by Michael or Sony to take that stuff down. (Do tell me if you are.) If that is so, WHY? I always thought it's just a declaration of love from Michael to the fans... After all, the fact that there are so many Michael videos on YouTube in the first place is a declaration of love from "we, the people" to Michael.
But isn't this piracy, when you think about it?! I believe it is. And it looks like L.O.V.E. can equal piracy sometimes. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
So: Hmm, dunno if Michael could fight this or if he even wants to. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Well, it depends ...
Walt Disney owns the publishing rights of Captain Eo - and since these copyrights last only for a certain amount of time it may have well been terminated now (23 years after it`s first release).
Moonwalker copyrights were with MJJ (the company). 22 years ago now. Still?
And do you have any idea how time-consuming, elaborate and expensive it is to have your copyrights saved worldwide and watched the whole net in order to be able to intervene in case of infringements --- and then, just do it and fight for and accomplish your rights in court in almost 200 countries / nations all over the world?
Let me tell you, that`s an almost impossible thing to do. Even Sony manages only some blockings in some countries.
And believe me - no artist can afford to "work for free". No one would, not even Michael Jackson.
What do you think---
--- if he were young today, we`d all enjoy his georgious talents on youtube while he`d stay a poor boy in a worker`s family in Gary, Indiana. And no one - no father, no studio, no record or tv company - would take any efforts to let this talent shine as it did in the past.
That`s the reality of now. And there`s nothing for free.
Thanks for sharing. Here's another video of Robert Alexander Giles:
[youtube:zg0anjy1]
Is it just me???? I don't think he sounds like MJ. I can tell the difference. Can you?
I don't think he sounds like Michael - but he does sing a few chords close enough that without paying much attention he could pass. He definitely doesn't look like Michael, but then I haven't found anyone yet that has. What I find with the impersonators is that they go through the motion of step, step, swing, step, step, kick, etc. It looks just like dance steps where when Michael dances he becomes the dance. But I need to give them credit because they are paying Michael a huge compliment by trying to imitate him.
Many, if not all, of Michael's concert performances are on YouTube.
That means they're freely available, and many people aren't and won't be willing to pay for them.
Yeah, that`s the shame. As I said:
If MJ was young today, we`d all enjoy his georgious talents on youtube while he`d stay a poor boy in a worker`s family in Gary, Indiana. And no one - no father, no studio, no record or tv company - would take any efforts to let this talent shine as it did in the past. That`s the reality of now.
There`s nothing for free, can`t be, nowhere. Since money is nothing abstract, just "frozen efforts".
This series of videos is all absolute twaddle. There is no proof in the claims and everything this "insider" has spoken about can be easily Google searched or learned in a general video class.
Comments
He has an english accent and it is hard to understand him even when he sings. Does not sound like MJ maybe 50%
"The problem is we are researching an ongoing event and trying to understand and decipher what already did happen as well as predict what will come to pass in the future. Things change, new information comes out, we need to stay open minded."
I have to say, bec, that this is one of the most cogent statements I have ever read on this Forum about the Hoax....an OPEN MIND has to be maintained AT ALL TIMES....this entire thing is UNPRECEDENTED!! We are priveleged to be part of a Chosen Few to be on the ground floor....the ones with FRONT ROW SEATS...those that follow this Forum are a MINISCULE MINORITY compared to the world's population....when and if Michael ever reveals himself again, we will be charter members of the "I Told You So" Club...in other words...
I have absolutely no concrete way of knowing if this Insider is legit or not...but think of how many other tentacles of this Hoax this could be said about....I suggest we TAKE IT ALL IN....FILTER IT...not be GULLIBLE, but not be CYNICAL...ANYTHING is possible here....literally ANYTHING....we are talking about perhaps one of the greatest minds/souls/spirits of our time...Michael...who NEVER ceases to amaze...in Life...in "Death"...it appears that his influence and effect is going to be eternal....how lucky we are to "get it" before the majority of the world...we are blessed!
I have read about the fact that the dancers are also actors and are listed at IMDb numerous times. It has been posted on this and other forums before.
Here is just one example:
by 2good2btrue » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:01 pm
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=14549&start#p243070
I don't know how to search the old forums and not a member of some of those I was but I read all bout the "cast" of TII also being actors a long time ago. I am not sure but there may have been previous videos about this too on youtube. You will have to forgive me because I thought that this was common knowledge in the hoax world.
The Cast Of Michael Jackson's "This Is It" Movie - 27 September 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUEg7h8bq9A
Comments:
lilmichael212 April 27th, 2010 - 14:01
IT is so funny all the dancers/actors only recall things that are in the movie but the one guy that performed with michael before this is it recalls something that wasnt shown i wonder who is fake?????????????? and i wonder who’s walking around ALIVE??
forevershining1 - April 27th, 2010 - 17:07
So wait.. are yall saying that the dancers and back up singers, etc. are actually actors and actresses from other pieces? Interestttiinnnnggg…
Souza's movie theory, comment made in reference to dancers/actors and posted before the Insiders Part 1 video (which was posted on Sept 23).
This Is It ~ not a wrap yet
Post by ~Souza~ » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 pm
Mike allegedly hired a bunch of actors that are still not allowed to talk about the project they worked on. The article is somewhere on the forum, so if anyone has a link to it, that would be great.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=107&t=14272<!-- l -->
A post on the other forum discussing the dancers.
Post by See » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:04 am
Appearances of Michael Jackson alive after 25th are staged with both actors/dancers as well as real Michael Jackson so that everybody thinks that he -Michael- is staging this hoax, this way nobody comes looking for Michael Jackson - not even when he stops publishing music and disappears!
BAM - Contracts!!
post by kingwillreturn » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:22 am
We learned in the early days of the hoax, that the "Actors" in TII were contracted for two years, We wondered why when the concerts were only for a few months, not two years? but now we see the TII dancer/actress in the Wii game commercial.
So for the advertising campaign to follow his death, Michael had them sign two year contracts.
Now thinking in a logical way, if we can work out when the contracts were signed, we may be able to work out a BAM date, due to the fact, unless they have to sign extensions to the contracts, that after the date that the contracts end, the let's call them "Cast" of the hoax, would then be free to talk and blow the hoax out of the water.
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=12861
The fact that the dancers are actors has been discussed before. It was discussed even earlier than these posts and comments. If I recall correctly, BOW also talked about the dancers being actors, after it had been previously discussed and before these videos came out. I don't believe she is an insider either. But as I said, it was a long time ago so I can't locate the original posts etc. I did think that most of us, who had been investigating the hoax, were aware that the dancers were also actors. I had read the IMDb site months ago, well before 2good2btrue posted the screen shots.
I have absolutely no reason to be deceptive, I would love for there to be an insider. For someone to be really telling us the truth or revealing things we aren't aware of. So far this person hasn't done that and the information is not fact it is speculation, belief and theories; we have that already... and it really bothers me that someone may be dishonest about what they know and how they know it, even if they are presenting real information (though we know this stuff already anyway).
Everyone is free to believe (or not believe) in whom ever or whatever they choose. Sadly, after evaluating the videos I can not put my faith in this "informer" maybe something will be revealed to change that in the future.
I like these videos - regardless of infos we've already came across ourselves. Maybe we rather should see this information as a CONFIRMATION than an 'oh, she doesn't come up with anything we've not already know'.
ANYTHING is possible. I for myself believe, that it's payback time for Michael <!-- s
I too totally agree with you........ well said <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
And I wish to say I support Teddy, he has Michael's back !!!
I also agree with @ heisinme09 and @ bec's comments about being open minded and in particular I support your view that "we are blessed"
My two cents:
Okay, considering this "insider`s" concept / message it might be something like this:
1. Sony is well known for it`s copyright protection campaign (for example blockings youtube vids in many countries).
2. MJ was aways super-cautious to protect his music and rights.
3. Sony and MJ own Sony/ATV company whose values (licenses = publishing rights) are quite vunerable because of illegal copies / leakings circulating the net.
4. This is a HUGE topic not only for the whole entertainment business as it hits economy, politics, societies everywhere to major extents (see what damage "wikileaks" could do, not to mention hacking attacks, stalking and threads on the net).
5. The insider says that MJ was on good terms with Sony`s top executives always (true!) but has had his problems only with some head of sections like Tommy Mottola (remember he was fired because of MJ`s claims back then).
6. Sony at large used to help MJ a lot (also financialwise).
7. Sony`s "make.believe" sounds very much Michael ... and may also point to a common goal.
8. The insider tells us to watch the major news (for 12 months at least) on these topics as I understand
- piracy = copyright infringements
- efforts to protect data and publishing rights on the www
- illegal leakings
- fake and forgeries (sounds and pictures, films and books)
- people responsible (those who do - or let happen - these things) are going to be exposed
So I understand some of them at Sony as well as with the estate are going to be exposed and might lose their jobs ... Exposed for editing footage, remastering and polishing demo tapes and using look- and sound-alikes? To make money by fooling the public? A major case of identity theft (using Michael Jackson, the brand)?
I guess it`s not that far fetched to think of an international campaign for net protection purposes for all kind of national, economic, business, political and personal interests of all users worldwide. It`s about time.
Can you imagine the impact it would have? The death of the planet`s most famous person ever - and the aftermath - was "made.believe" to show the world ---- the bigger picture.
How could someone provide "substantiated proof" in an anonymous online video? I don't think it's possible... She could say "I know the TII dancers myself and know they're actors" and you may still not believe it, because anyone could say it. Substantiated proof would be documents, contracts, and a passport showing the precise identity of the alleged insider. We aren't gonna get this, and this is the difficulty insiders (real or fake ones) face.
Just a few comments:
1. How can someone get "15 minutes of fame" when no one knows who they are? Kinda strange...
Anyone claiming to be an insider opens themselves up to the possibility of ridicule and scorn, not just admiration and eternal love.
2. Not knowing the BAM date doesn't mean or prove anything. MJ might not know it himself - I actually highly suspect that he only has an idea, say a certain month or interval, and the precise date depends on various developments.
3. I think all "insiders" must be taken with a grain of salt - cautiousness is always good. This being said, there's no harm in watching any video and wondering whether it makes sense or not. Someone confirming things we already know is good, not bad. (Imagine if someone said TII was merely rehearsal footage! They'd lose their credibility instantly.) If they say something we don't know and is not common knowledge, we still can't necessarily verify it and thus we can't tell whether the person is a true insider or not.
In addition to what I thought before and what you all said, something else bothers me:
This person says that Michael has relations with the top echelon at Sony and mentions Akio Morita (one of the co-founders of Sony Corp.), but Morita died in 1999 and I believe he might have become irrelevant at Sony sometime before that. Moreover, I recall reading (Lynton Guest's book, I think)that Morita was pro-Jackson, but the leadership that followed wasn't gung-ho on Jackson because of the "child molestation" issues and general controversy around MJ. Now it's hard to know what the truth is, but if this "insider" wanted to point out MJ's good relations with Sony, wouldn't she mention another person at Sony (such as current CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment) rather than long-dead Morita?!
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akio_Morita<!-- m -->
I think what we should do with all "insider" info is evaluate it, decide whether it makes sense or not, and WAIT for developments. "Keep watchin'", as BACK loved to say. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> As Serenitys said, we can only be manipulated if we allow ourselves to be.
I had known everything so before that so called informer said. With a simple research you can find all of those information. If people are that blind and stupid to compare TS with this one, it's definitely their loss because TS wrote many many things that NOBODY had known like the numerology and etc. We can not compare the two.
And I'm not going to get the bait about Breaking News being a fake because I do get the purpose behind it. I believe that Michael wanted some of his family and friends to tell that song was sung by a voice double BECAUSE we all know what we watched in Breaking News. We watched Michael's "death" in Breaking News. And saying Breaking News (the song) is a fake, is saying MJ's death is fake! That was the purpose. The family said that some of the songs were not sung by MJ but why didn't they say anything for another song? Was it only BN in the whole album? If it wasn't, why don't they come up and say that Much Too Soon or Blue Gansta are fakes too? Because they're not. EVEN IF someone else sang BN, MJ added that song to the album on purpose and that purpose could only to say Breaking News that we watched about his "death" was FAKE! And plus, remember what Teddy wrote about Michael. He said that Michael loves controversy. And I think he got what he wanted and what he wanted to say to us with BN. This is the way I think. And I still think that this insider is a fake too. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
We don't hear why Michael did the hoax and when will be back. These 2 key questions are not answered. Everything else has been said, the info on youtube and here. The only news "insider" said is Branca and McClain will be removed. Will see.
ALL of Michael's music videos are on YouTube (I think).
"Moonwalker" and "Captain EO" are on YouTube. Hell, even the 3D HD version of "Captain EO" is on YouTube!
Many, if not all, of Michael's concert performances are on YouTube.
That means they're freely available, and many people aren't and won't be willing to pay for them.
Now I'm not aware of any efforts ever being made by Michael or Sony to take that stuff down. (Do tell me if you are.) If that is so, WHY? I always thought it's just a declaration of love from Michael to the fans... After all, the fact that there are so many Michael videos on YouTube in the first place is a declaration of love from "we, the people" to Michael.
But isn't this piracy, when you think about it?! I believe it is. And it looks like L.O.V.E. can equal piracy sometimes. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
So: Hmm, dunno if Michael could fight this or if he even wants to. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Dominic Cascio confirms ... <!-- s
((Shaking my head))
Well, it depends ...
Walt Disney owns the publishing rights of Captain Eo - and since these copyrights last only for a certain amount of time it may have well been terminated now (23 years after it`s first release).
Moonwalker copyrights were with MJJ (the company). 22 years ago now. Still?
And do you have any idea how time-consuming, elaborate and expensive it is to have your copyrights saved worldwide and watched the whole net in order to be able to intervene in case of infringements --- and then, just do it and fight for and accomplish your rights in court in almost 200 countries / nations all over the world?
Let me tell you, that`s an almost impossible thing to do. Even Sony manages only some blockings in some countries.
And believe me - no artist can afford to "work for free". No one would, not even Michael Jackson.
What do you think---
--- if he were young today, we`d all enjoy his georgious talents on youtube while he`d stay a poor boy in a worker`s family in Gary, Indiana. And no one - no father, no studio, no record or tv company - would take any efforts to let this talent shine as it did in the past.
That`s the reality of now. And there`s nothing for free.
I don't think he sounds like Michael - but he does sing a few chords close enough that without paying much attention he could pass. He definitely doesn't look like Michael, but then I haven't found anyone yet that has. What I find with the impersonators is that they go through the motion of step, step, swing, step, step, kick, etc. It looks just like dance steps where when Michael dances he becomes the dance. But I need to give them credit because they are paying Michael a huge compliment by trying to imitate him.
Yeah, that`s the shame. As I said:
If MJ was young today, we`d all enjoy his georgious talents on youtube while he`d stay a poor boy in a worker`s family in Gary, Indiana. And no one - no father, no studio, no record or tv company - would take any efforts to let this talent shine as it did in the past. That`s the reality of now.
There`s nothing for free, can`t be, nowhere. Since money is nothing abstract, just "frozen efforts".
I'm not buying this. Not. One. Bit.