TIAI January 10
SoldierofLOVE
Posts: 993
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Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by Serenitys_Dream » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:57 pm
If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).
If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.
Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.
How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.
On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.
There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.
So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.
Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess<!-- m -->
It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.
Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli<!-- m -->
Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
<!-- m -->http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333<!-- m -->
Shaun - God's Gift
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
Anglicized form of SEÁN
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun<!-- m -->
SEÁN - God Is Gracious
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
Irish form of JOHN
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n<!-- m -->
JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/john<!-- m -->
Soule - Obsolete spelling of SOUL
French verb
1. First-person singular present indicative of SOULER.
<!-- m -->http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soule<!-- m -->
Souler
1. (transitive) To get (someone) drunk.
2. (transitive, literary) To fill up as if with food.
3. (transitive) To confuse or extenuate with an unending flow of something.
4. (transitive) To figuratively intoxicate or overexcite.
5. (reflexive) To get drunk.
6. (reflexive) To consume excessively of something; to gorge oneself on something.
<!-- m -->http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/souler#French<!-- m -->
Re: Official General Prelim Discussion thread
by Serenitys_Dream » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:57 pm
If a real body was procured, in some way, then the paramedics are telling the truth about the events of that day therefore they would not be in on the hoax. It explains why they would not have recognized Michael (because it wasn't him) and why it would seem that he had been "down" for a lengthy amount of time (because the body would be from a previously deceased person).
If a real body was procured, then an autopsy on this body would be contradictory to Michael's physical condition such as the lung ailments reported in the Autopsy report. These lung disorders would have made it impossible for Michael to sing/dance. But we see that he was singing and dancing in the movie "This Is It". At least two of the lung disorders, reported in the autopsy report, are related to smoking. One of them is usually only attributed to a smoker, I do not believe Michael was a smoker most singers and/or dancers do not smoke and Michael was not shown smoking in the many pictures taken of him. This therefore could mean that a single individual, a couple of people or no one at all from the coroner's office is directly involved in the hoax.
If a real body was used, the reports by the other witnesses who were present in the house, may also be accurate from their point of view. Using a real body, would diminish the number of people involved in the hoax, the less people actually in on the hoax...the more successful it would be. Less people, means more control over how things unfold and less chances of someone revealing the hoax before intended.
Given these things, it is possible that the trial is not a fake in itself. It may be that this a real court proceeding in an effort to show how the courts can be manipulated, as part of an ARG scenario and/or a sort of "live action drama" being played out before the entire world. A Vendetta even. This also shows how the legal system can get it so wrong, how the media can report things without really investigating or asking pertinent questions. It could also be in an effort to try to open the general publics eyes to the all the inconstancies, get them asking questions and awaken even more people to the idea that Michael Jackson is actually alive.
How else would the hoax gain more attention, beyond the believers, who are already aware of it. It had to go "Global" as in the media reporting this hearing or nothing would progress further than it has, we would be at a standstill.
On another note, the admitting name supposedly used at UCLA was Shaun Soule. The reason given for this was to protect Michael's privacy and prevent a crush of people and media coming to UCLA. Well we know that didn't work, National Photo Group was at Michael's house so it was reported anyway. But if they used an alias when admitting Michael to the hospital, why did they use a completely different one on the blood samples obtained from the body?
They autopsy report tells us that the vials of blood were labelled as "Gershwin" and this was the blood used for the reported testing in the autopsy report.
There would have been no reason to use two different aliases, one for the patient and one for the patient's blood samples. The using of the Shaun Soule alias did not even come out until weeks after June 25, 2009 so the use of a different alias on the blood samples wasn't required to protect Michael Jackson's privacy. These blood samples were taken prior to any death having been pronounced and when resuscitation efforts were still ongoing.I would think that it is procedure to label blood and other fluid samples with the same name that a patient is admitted under so that these samples can be matched up with the right patient when results are obtained.
So there must be another reason why two different names would have been used.
Gershwin
George & Ira Gershwin - brothers, composer/pianist & lyricist." Porgy and Bess" is their most renowned Opera. There most popular song came from this Opera "It Ain't Necessarily So".
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess<!-- m -->
It Ain't Necessarily So - It's not as it at first seems, It's fake, It's not true...it's a hoax.
Liza May Minnelli is an American singer and actress. She is the daughter of singer and actress Judy Garland (Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz) and film director Vincente Minnelli.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_Minnelli<!-- m -->
Liza Minnelli's godfather is IRA GERSHWIN.
<!-- m -->http://www.ibdb.com/person.php?id=68333<!-- m -->
Shaun - God's Gift
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
Anglicized form of SEÁN
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/shaun<!-- m -->
SEÁN - God Is Gracious
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
Irish form of JOHN
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/sea10n<!-- m -->
JOHN - God Is Gracious, Merciful
<!-- m -->http://www.name-meanings.com/search.php<!-- m -->
English form of Iohannes, the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning "YAHWEH is gracious". This name owes its popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered saints. The first was John the Baptist, a Jewish ascetic who was considered the forerunner of Jesus Christ. The second was the apostle John, who was also traditionally regarded as the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation
<!-- m -->http://www.behindthename.com/name/john<!-- m -->
Soule - Obsolete spelling of SOUL
French verb
1. First-person singular present indicative of SOULER.
<!-- m -->http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soule<!-- m -->
Souler
1. (transitive) To get (someone) drunk.
2. (transitive, literary) To fill up as if with food.
3. (transitive) To confuse or extenuate with an unending flow of something.
4. (transitive) To figuratively intoxicate or overexcite.
5. (reflexive) To get drunk.
6. (reflexive) To consume excessively of something; to gorge oneself on something.
<!-- m -->http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/souler#French<!-- m -->
Comments
If the trial is real, the legal system can get wrong if they don' t do their job well in verifying the authenticity of evidence and files.
If the trial is real, they get wrong if they sent Murray in jail.
If the trial is real, they can get right(make justice) only by revealing a hoax.
Michael's Vendetta makes no sense here because if the legal system is doing their job right, they reveal his own hoax. And if not, Murray is going to jail.
There are no winners.
So, no, i mostly disagree.
You're right.
The only way around that logic is if Murray is supposed to be found guilty and that's when MJ reveals. I mean that's literally the only way.
Like you said, if court is real, then the only way MJ is making a point is if Murray actually gets found guilty.
And really, the court did their job in 2005. Justice was served. MJ was rightfully found not guilty. It's not the court that failed to perform properly, it's the media.
So for this hoax to make sense as MJ's Vendetta, court has to be rigged, at least, if not 100% staged, as a set up for the media to expose themselves and their reporting of lies and made up stories.
And you said that "the only way around that logic is if Murray is supposed to be found guilty and that's when MJ reveals." Do you mean in case the trial is real? Because i still see a problem, Michael &Co could face legal charges for everything. Or maybe i didn't understand very well what you said.
And i do believe the trial is real, the judge is real and i read about their incompatibilities, they can't have such activities like acting for example.
Yes that's what I meant. Good lawyers can ensure legality so I have to assume that Michael isn't going to do this without some assurance of legality ahead of time.
People who appear in documentaries are not actors though. We can't forget that.
I'm sure of that.
IMO If the trial is real, and the judge, lawyers, witnesses and jury are telling their truth as they know it, they would come to the same conclusion as us on this hoax forum in all of our detailed investigation. The judge and jury's verdict would be --MJ is alive. They would surely get to the bottom of whether it was MJ's own body who was admitted to the hospital and had an autopsy, who was lying or telling the truth especially if they used polygraph tests and DNA samples, etc., and if Murray actually was a qualitfied doctor by checking his background thoroughly. It doesn't appear that they are doing any of this, and are caught up in lesser things such as fingerprints on the IV and propofol bottles found in the room. I think there are some very key people at the top who need to be in on the hoax, such as the judge, coroner, chief of police, etc. Using an already dead body approximately the same age would be the easiest. The person wouldn't even have to have looked like MJ, because the ambulance pic took care of that. No double had to die at a precise time. I don't buy the Romanian double story, but I think it's one of many spins to lead people in multi-directions. I'm not sure how the case will go, because MJ likes to keep us on the edge of our seats, and we should expect the unexpected!
(in case we accept the fact that he is planning to return. if not, then Murray is on his own with well paid lawyers, u know what i mean)
If this is a real body what are the chances of MJ finding someone who died on the same day that could pass for MJ?
with that in mind, the real EMTS don't have to lie on the stand because they thought they were transporting the "real" body (and yes, i agree that a deceased person was used. i don't know how yet, but that's just my belief). i don't think i've heard one peep from an EMT stating they were in that ambulance photo. no one has commented on the ride they had there.
i agree with serenity's dream, the less people in on the hoax, the easier for michael to control. people could be a part of this hoax and be completely unaware of it.
the only problem i have with the trial scenario is time. the justice system is flawed in many ways, one of which is that it likes to take its sweet time with hearings and proceedings. even though as a US citizen you are technically "guaranteed" a "speedy" trial, that is really a joke. i'm not sure this thing will go to the full trial, or even complete it. i mean, we've had one week of prelims and it's already a circus. i think a trial works well with the suggested theory above, but i just think sand is falling through the hourglass faster than we think.
I think it is really important to investigate more on this subject as not all the people and institutions involved could be IN the hoax.
Oh Michael shall we ever know the truth <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> ?
Love you.....
but if there is a body, Serenity made a good point, numerology can't be involved.
I don't know how you feel about numerology. And i still think about the legal way Michael could return safe after a real trial, which i'm sure it is.
No, sorry you misunderstood me. I meant that you can not predict when a terminally ill patient would die and since numerology is involved in the hoax, specific dates etc are relevant, than IMO the Dimitri story is false. A real body was used for the scene, ambulance, autopsy (maybe not the ambulance picture we see) but it wasn't this DD person as has been described on that blog.
sorry, confused..so just any dead body ok.
now i understand that TS redirects, she/he doesn't post.
Is he a numerologist or an insider?
And if he is an insider so why does he/she point us? Are we the source?
Looks like a PR for this forum like daily miss/mister popularity - best post in order to encourage us to write and make this forum most popular.
Hi , TS, i will do my best:))
There are different explanations for the timing of June 25. One is that maybe initially Mike planned to use a dummy, but this just came his way. This person has had a lot of plastic surgery: nose, ears, wrists even (see AR). There is a chance that this person was one of his doubles (or even the main double), who had surgery to look like him. I can only imagine how well they would have known each other. Being able to play a double (and I am not talking about an impersonator) means you have to spend a lot of your time with the person you need to become. There is a big chance they knew each other for decades. That would also mean that this double was aware of Mike's plan. Maybe when he heard he was ill and wouldn't get better, he offered to Mike to be his dead body as well. With assistent suicide the date can be planned. Maybe he was such a loyal person. Also don't forget that the Jacksons did bury a person on July 6, 2009 at Forest Lawn (can't search for that YouTube now, but maybe someone can post it for me). If I even go a little further, I would say that there is a possibility that Katherine and Joe adopted this person legally so he could indeed change his name to Jackson. That way it would not be MJ's biological brother, but it would be his brother, which makes it not a lie when Katherine says her son died, or the siblings saying their brother died. Maybe far fetched but to me in this hoax really nothing is far fetched. Trump said to Larry King that there were two Michaels and that he knew them both (again I can't search for the video, but it's on YouTube somewhere). On the AR we see a person that is very ill, no pepsi burn, lots of plastic surgery, but not the chin. It's just not Michael Jackson, but maybe it is, if you get what I am saying.
Mike made his lip thinner with make-up because the double had thinner lips. Mike added a cleft because the double had a longer chin and a cleft, the double had his nose done because Mike had a smaller nose, the double had his ears done to get them closer to his head, and the double had implants in the wrist to match Mike's 'bumps'. No implants were found according to the AR, but there were scars on both wrists. Maybe they were removed in the hospital because he had to go through the MRI or something like that.
Because I still think the name 'Michael Joseph Jackson' is not real in order to make it easier in this hoax to publish 'fake' documents, I think the AR and DC are still fake. I do think the info in the AR might be real. That would mean the double had vitiligo. When I talked about this before, people asked me how it was possible to find someone that looks so much like you, who also has vitiligo? I don't know, but we know they have found lots and lots of cream in the house, cream that MJ didn't want anyone to know of according to Murray. There is bleaching cream that is only temporary, but you have to keep smearing to keep the light skin. So maybe one of them simply was still black, but who? If all the info in the AR is accurate, that would mean the double had vitiligo and Mike didn't. The covers of Dangerous and Michael make my head spin. Dangerous shows Michael hiding behind a mask. As Trump said, there were 2 MJ's from that time on. You see on Dangerous that he is showing a circus, hiding behind the mask. We see a factory and everything seems surreal. The album cover of Michael reminds me a lot of the Dangerous cover. Yet here we see him without a mask, with his 'King of Pop' era left behind him, showing the real deal in front. On his right side we see everything before '88, on his left side we see everything after '88. One side is dark (before '88), one side is light (after '88). Black...White. Michael in front is black. Just made me think he never had vitiligo, but the double had. Could explain all the illnesses too. Two people have more illnesses than one. If the double broke a leg, Mike had to have his leg plastered. And sometimes you get (like in the movies) a continuation error. I remember something during the Dangerous era with a broken leg or something like that that suddenly wasn't broken anymore, but I really can't recall the exact story.
So back to the doubles but to me it still seems the most logical explanation for this mess. It would explain too much to be ignored. If MJ's name is Michael Joe Jackson, like we see on real legal papers, I think the double's name is Mike Joseph Jackson. I think Michael Joseph Jackson is a fake name, also the birth date 8/29/1958. I still haven't found ANY reference to this birth date or middle name before '88. I think Moonwalk was written to make people think Michael Jackson was born on 8/29/1958, had Joseph as a middle name and was 5'10". If you mix up Mike Joseph Jackson and Michael Joe, you get Michael Joseph. If you take the average of the heights (5'9" on the AR, 5'11" on the mug shot) you get 5'10". The birth date is 8/29/1958 because the hoax and date of death was planned way back then. This birth date would make that the Pepsi burn would be exaclty in the middle of his life. I don't think either of them was born on that date. I think the double being terminally ill right before the start of this hoax was just a coincidence.
I agree with SD that a real corpse would reduce the quantity of the people involved, but I do not think the prelim is completely real. I think the coroner knows. He did have a dead body, he made the AR although I think the one that was published was altered for the hoax. The coroner did state right after the autopsy that it was not foul play. He must have seen what this person suffered from. There was a rumor that there were two ambulances leaving Carolwood and there were reports of two hospitals; UCLA and Cedar's. What if the masses were distracted with a dummy in the ambulance that left the main gate? Maybe that is why it took so long to get the ambulance out, to make sure the paps would stay there not to miss anything. That way the other ambulance had time to go through the other gate and leave to Cedar's. UCLA might have been a distraction. If that is the case, some bobos from UCLA must know about the hoax, other doctors and staff must have been asked to keep it quiet that MJ never arrived there, that they brought in a dummy for distraction of the media. According to TMZ on June 25, Katherine was on her way to the hospital at 1:30 PM, yet she arrives at UCLA 2 whole hours later. This makes me think the person died in the hospital (Cedar's) and the Jacksons were by his side when it happened, or at least Katherine. If there is any emotion we see, it could be because they are really there and have to ACT that there is none, to make people open their eyes to the hoax happening as well. And maybe some of them didn't really even knew him that well. Glasses to hide tears AND to hide the lack of tears? It could also explain Randy's anger, maybe he didn't think using the body for the hoax was ethical. But because he loves his brother, he carries on with the hoax. It can also explain why Karen Faye is so sure Mike was sick and frail and not able to do the shows, while others said he was perfectly fine.
I think this prelim is fake. The media and fans attending are thinking that they are attending a real prelim, because Murray is there, the judge is there, the witnesses are there etc. That doesn't mean it's real. There is no need for a real investigation, trial and such, because the deceased person was terminally ill. This is not to get back at the court, because Mike was acquitted. The media fucked him, and he fucks them back, big time. He is letting them attend a prelim, and maybe even a trial later on, of a man who never hurt a soul. If the media would do their journalistic jobs, they would notice that there is absolutely no proof that Murray killed MJ, but no one is questioning, they are all reporting the garbage even though it is clear that this is all too ridiculous to be true. The media will be exposed, not the justice system. People in that courtroom and the witnesses, with the exception of the media and the few that also are allowed inside, know about it. Those are the ones that know, have signed the confidentiality agreement and play a role. It's fake, but looks real. A combination of Law and Order and Punk'd.
Sounds complicated and maybe it is all much simpeler, but this is what I have been thinking for a long long time.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Great Post <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I think it makes sense that the fewer people in on it (initially), the better for Michael. More people means more uncontrollable factors. I do think that as time has passed since June 25th, more people may have been brought into the loop but I honestly think that no one knows everything, apart from Michael.
As for the prelim, I think it's "partially" real, in that it could very well be an actual prelim but there are key players involved who are aware of the hoax, at least to some degree. It's possible that some of the witness testimony is true, from what they know, but everybody is contradicting each other so I'm really hoping that the general public is at least paying some attention and realize that something doesn't add up.
This case will definitely go to trial and that's how Michael wants it, IMO. This hoax needs to be taken to the furthest point in order for Michael to prove his point.