If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
Seems logical. I don't think assistent suicide is legal in the US but maybe just turning off the life support is when someone can't function on his own anymore.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I'm thinking it's very possible that a dead body was in fact used that day. "Michael" was ID'd with his driver's license according to the AR and for all we know, that piece of ID may have been a forgery. Although I am certainly not ruling out no body, or a dummy (which was obviously used for the ambulance pic).
I think it makes sense that the fewer people in on it (initially), the better for Michael. More people means more uncontrollable factors. I do think that as time has passed since June 25th, more people may have been brought into the loop but I honestly think that no one knows everything, apart from Michael.
As for the prelim, I think it's "partially" real, in that it could very well be an actual prelim but there are key players involved who are aware of the hoax, at least to some degree. It's possible that some of the witness testimony is true, from what they know, but everybody is contradicting each other so I'm really hoping that the general public is at least paying some attention and realize that something doesn't add up.
This case will definitely go to trial and that's how Michael wants it, IMO. This hoax needs to be taken to the furthest point in order for Michael to prove his point.
I completley agree with your point of view. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Well it's just theories about what happened on that day and how it happened. And still the dead body in the room makes sense to me. Not everyone can be in on the hoax. Paramedics could be telling the truth about how they couldn't recognize MJ or how he looked like an Asian guy. It is still no hard to find a body who died a couple of hours earlier. Maybe your theory is right but still mine makes perfect sense to me. This is fiction in reality and reality in fiction and some of the things we see are the reality in fiction part of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. It is important to make the difference btw the two.
I wrote this on the previous redirect of TS. This is reality in fiction, fiction in reality, and there has to be a reality in fiction side of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. And not everyone we see is in on the hoax. A dead body made sense to me always. That explains so well why the paramedics didn't recognize MJ because there was a dead body in the room but it wasn't MJ.
I believe that the courts are in the fiction in reality side of the hoax. There're main characters who know about the hoax but there're some witnesses and some others who have no idea about the hoax. I wrote this a couple of days ago in my Twitter.
Blame Murray and declare him like he's the killer of MJ and then let him go without any charges.Show the world injustice!
The reason of the court can be about showing the world the injustice in the governments.
Souza, I've been having a similar theory in my head for a long time. That's why I posted the BAD Theme thread because there's a lot of signs pointing to this era. And I do believe that was a turning point in his career and life and where the double entered into the picture. It is also when Tommy Mottola entered into the picture as well in MJ's career.
And Serenity, you make some really valid and interesting points that I haven't even thought of.
If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
This may be true, maybe that person was dependent on the machine to stay alive. I agree with SD about the declaration of the paramedics, Michael did not recognize that it was not, perhaps it was a person with cancer, one of the effects of chemotherapy is hair loss and the paramedics said it was a man with little hair. I remember the chef said at some point every day that Murray was down all day with some oxygen tanks, a dancer if something has to have is the ability to breathe and know how to do, then how is that supposed to be the Michael spent the night with oxygen position? Not understood, a dancer, if something is good at is breathing, it is a technique that can also learn to optimize physical performance.
If you concede that the EMTs are real and not in on it, then you must concede that the 911 call was real.
One leads to the other.
I don't believe there was a real body of any sort, at any time in this hoax. I've thrown out lots of reasons why in the past, but I guess it really boils down to just gut instinct... a hunch.
Hard to do anything all for L.O.V.E. while mishandling a corpse. It's super bad PR. Dead bodies are not part of family friendly entertainment and MJ has always created entertainment appropriate for people of all ages.
Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
Serenity....your posts are always so informative. You are a blessing to have on this forum. Thanks for your hard work.
Souza......wow! Great thoughts. Can't help but think about LaToya's comment at the airport about "while we're watching the right hand, we don't know what the left one is doing".
Bate and switch.......nobody sees the "moonwalking bear"!!!!
If someone was on life support it would not be hard to get the death date to line up with the numerology of the hoax. It would be a matter of turning off the machine. Just a thought.
Seems logical. I don't think assistent suicide is legal in the US but maybe just turning off the life support is when someone can't function on his own anymore.
sort of true. my grandmother was on life support when she passed away. thankfully we didn't have to decide for her, she just went by her own. however, even when someone is on life support, you can see on the machine that they sometimes are functioning by themselves and not relying 100% on the machine. this is, of course, certain cases. if the person was on life support and depended on it 100%, they would more than likely pass away within minutes of being taken off. if they were able to function slightly off it, but still needed life support to survive, it could be a while (certainly not a long time) before they passed away. i hope this makes sense.
@souza- your post was very interesting. something to think about. it certainly does make sense in terms of the emotions during this whole hoax. jermaine and joe's smiling (they maybe didn't know the double well enough), katherine's tears (she's very caring) and the kids' tearless faces at the memorial (it's not their dad). with that being said, if this double spent so much time with michael to mimic him as a person, poor guy must have been through hell. can you imagine michael going through this hoax, leaving his fans, compromising his family and then losing someone who would have had to be like a brother? it's just so sad.
Found the right thread...lol <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
The only evidence that Michael was supposedly 5' 11" comes from the Mug shot.
If Michael was wearing heels and they didn't make him remove his shoes that would account for the discrepancy in height. Not every person who is arrested is required to remove their shoes when a mug shot is taken. You would think that they would be required to do so but this isn't the case.
His license (which expired in 1989) from the FBI files shows a height of 5 '9" and a weight of 120lbs. The number on the license is N8685798
Michael Jackson's driver's license, which was part of the FBI's files.
The AR lists the bodies height as 5' 9" and 136lbs and states that a California DL was used to identify the body. The number on this license is N8685798, the same as the license that expired in 1989. It seems that the height and weight for the AR was recorded from the license. This doesn't mean that the license wasn't manipulated though but you would want to keep some things consistent to Michael, even in a hoax.
I believe that Michael was 5' 9" and he is a "lean" man, thin but muscular; a dancer's body. Any height differences in photographs that have been perceived over the years are due to heels and/or inserts that you can put in your shoes (lifts).
Here is an example:
Welcome to the Levitator Shoe Lift Company! Brief Introduction
Levitator Lifts, a division of Canfield Plastics develops shoe lifts for people that need a comfortable, low cost, removable, high quality product and want to gain up to 2 1/2 inches in height. http://www.levitatorlifts.com/
There has been significant discussion on the room temperature and determining time of death and I don't want to argue with anyone regarding this but the ambient or room temperature is a factor in the determination of TOD.
Estimating Time of Death (TOD)
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Medical investigators look for various signs to help them estimate a time frame - usually a two to four-hour window of time - in which the victim probably died. These signs may include the following:
* Rigor mortis
(the stiffening of the muscles that occurs shortly after death)
* Lividity (pooling of blood)
* Body core temperature
* Clouding of the corneas
* Evidence of a decompositional process
* Presence/absence of purge fluid
* Drying of the tissues.
The organs most commonly used to determine the body core temperature are the liver and the brain, because of their mass and density. After death, the body temperature falls toward the temperature of the surroundings at a rate of about one-and-a-half degrees per hour. This rate will vary depending on the amount of body fat, the amount of blood loss, the amount of type of clothing worn by the victim, the location of the body (whether it was lying near a heating or air conditioning vent or inside a cooler), and, if the body was found outdoors, on the weather conditions, including air temperature, wind, and precipitation (rain or snow). http://www.trutv.com/shows/forensic_files/techniques/tod.html
In the AR the temperature of the hospital room was recorded and included in the autopsy report. Page 3 of the Autopsy Report:
"The ambient temperature in the hospital room was 68 degrees F at 1815"
This was noted because it is used as a factor in determine TOD. The problem is that the person who died did not do so in that hospital room by all accounts they were already deceased when discovered at Carolwood. the heat was blasted in that room in the middle of summer. The reason for this may very well been to make TOD impossible.
When bodies are stored they are done so in refrigeration to slow the decomposition process, this doesn't stop it but can significantly slow it down. This would mean that if this body was of a recently deceased person, it could have been refrigerated, then moved to the Carolwood home and the surrounding temperature of the room would affect the temperature of the body. There is also the possibility as has been stated that this was a person who was brain dead and on life support and that this life support was turned off on or near June 25, 2009. Again the body would have had to have been moved to the Carolwood home or the equipment removed before 911 was called.
I don't want to go into too much about myself personally here but my mother died alone, of a heart attack, in her mobile home, in the latter part of the month of May. The inside of the house was sweltering. She was discovered approximately 7-8 hours after she had passed away and decomposition was to such an extent that we were not able to view her before her funeral.
So if Michael (or anyone else) had passed away in that extremely hot room, hours before 911 was called, without refrigeration...
1. The body would have been showing signs of decomposition.
2. He definitely would not be appearing as he does in that ambulance photograph.
No authority involved is going to be fooled by a real body. They are trying to fabricate a reality and convince us of it despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
I also tend to think that there was no real body. Because of what has been stated here but also because I absolutely don't understand the reaction of paramedics. They supposedly first believed that the person was dead for quite some time (one hour or so) but they rushed to perform CPR without checking the body temperature. If they had that first belief, the first thing to do is to check the body temp, no? And this conveniently or not does not permit anyone to know the exact time of death ... to keep some mystery in all of this?? Or can it be useful somehow?
When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Getting back to the chopper videos where the "full" bag was exchanged by a "flat" bag (not coroner bags but white linens with more or less underneath"), I think there was a body or a mannequin at some moment, being "exchanged". There were even two choppers on the roof of UCLA.
Remembering that the person from the ambulance did sit up at the stretcher when entering UCLA, I'd say it was neither a dead person nor a mannequin playing the "full" bag part.
When they got into the coroner's car, the white linen was taken away and there was a "bee-hive" in and out of the car and I really counted, I admit, how many and who got in and out LOL.
Cedar's Hospital
We were told that Michael was seen in the area around Cedar's in April 2009:
Michael Jackson's SUV Hits Ambulance
The King Of Pop Michael Jackson has reportedly been involved in a bizarre car smash involving an ambulance and some paparazzi in Los Angeles.
Cedar's specialize in immunobiology, lung disease, cancer, heart disorders and do have a neurosurgical institute. http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/
Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center is a teaching hospital and is specialized as to trauma patients. Ronald Reagan has been in some controversial discussion, however is ranking among the best hospitals in the U.S. as to:
* Adult and Pediatric Organ Transplantation
* Cancer
* Geriatrics
* Heart Care
* Mental Health
* Minimally Invasive and Robotic Surgeries
* Ophthalmology
* Orthopaedics
* Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine
* Spine and Brain Disorders http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/ronald-reagan-university-of-california-los-angeles-medical-center-6931755/about-us
The mansion:
The second entrance with the underground garage made Carolwood mansion a very strategic place. Close to Sunset Boulevard, a major traffic axis, not too far from neither Cedar's nor UCLA. It was hear-say that nobody was allowed upstairs in the mansion except Michael.
All of this fits well into an care plan for a dear friend.
Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
... and the "wild goose chases" and "red herrings" are terms used in an ARG, which is something Serenity's Dream referred to in the original post that TS is redirecting to. So, IMO, this is what TS wants to highlight ... that we have been in an ARG situtation from the start and we are not meant to figure it out too soon, hence the red herrings that Curls pointed out will no doubt continue <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Oh goodness Bec, I'm so glad you said this. I composed a post this morning saying as much then didn't submit it because I thought I'd get accused of criticising TS!
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
TS is a tricky one, but in a good way. A good storyteller doesn't give too much away. We're the children gathered around Michael with our mouths open, glued to every word.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
LMAO, that was hilarious. Although I agree everything can be faked, i do think there is a reasonable possibility that there really did die someone that day, although I do like the scenario without real corpse though.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
After rereading the original post that TS has redirected to, it seems to indicate that yes, a really body was used. There are less people involved in the actual hoax than it may seem, many of the witness are testifying to the events of that day, from their perspective so they are not committing perjury, and that the trial is a real proceeding.
But this is just my opinion and of course you can disagree. I have never received any hoax plan memo from anyone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I also think that the information on the alias and labeling on the blood sample are important as they also substantiate that `It Ain`t Necessarily So`; things are not as they may appear at first glance. This entire adventure, requires thinking in bigger terms, outside the box, and maybe even not what you would normally expect to find.
Thank you, TS. It is also helpful to reread TIAI update #4d: 777+999= Greatest Proof Hoax, Not Murder, especially parts 4-36, 4-37, 4-38, 4-42, and 4-43.
When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Me too <!-- s --><!-- s -->
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> and we know he loves telling stories! "...We initially wanted one real corpse but as we had 2 of everything else, we decided to have 2 corpses as well... "
Swiftly moving on...
I have done a bit of research on Gershwin, and in addition to what SerenityDreams has already mentioned I found out that Lady Gaga performed a surprise show at the Oak room in New York and sang G Gershwin's "Someone to watch over me". Whilst it may be an unrelated event, the lyrics are very nearly relevant. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Lady Gaga surprise performance at Plaza Hotel in NYC
January 6th, 2011 7:36 pm ET
No tickets were sold and no announcements were made for the surprise performance by Lady Gaga at the Plaza Hotel's Oak Room bar in Manhattan.
Lady Gaga is an old friend of resident musician Brian Newman. Rolling Stone reports Lady Gaga also performed a trio of covers with the musician in September.
During her performance Wednesday night in NYC, Lady Gaga sang versions of Nat King Cole's “Orange Colored Sky” and George Gershwin's “Someone to Watch Over Me.”
Lady Gaga's impromptu performance was made wearing a scant black outfit, thigh-high tights, black boots, white powder on her face and smudged black eyeliner.
According to the New York Daily News, a rep for the Oak Room said, “There were no tickets sold. She sang three songs as a surprise gig because she's friends with the musician we have on Wednesdays, Brian Newman.” http://www.examiner.com/city-buzz-in-new-york/lady-gaga-surprise-performance-at-plaza-hotel-nyc
" Someone To Watch Over Me "
There's a saying old says that love is blind,
Still we're often told, "Seek and ye shall find."
So I'm going to seek a certain lad I've had in mind.
Looking everywhere, haven't found him yet;
He's the big affair I cannot forget.
Only man I ever think of with regret.
I'd like to add his initials to my monogram.
Tell me, where is the shepherd for this lost lamb?
Chorus:
There's a somebody I'm longing to see,
I hope that he turns out to be
Someone who'll watch over me.
I'm a little lamb who's lost in the wood.
I know I could always be good
To one who'll watch over me.
Although he may not be the man some girls think of as handsome.
To my heart he carries the key.
Won't you tell him please to put on some speed,
Follow my lead, oh, how I need
Someone who'll watch over me.
Comments
Seems logical. I don't think assistent suicide is legal in the US but maybe just turning off the life support is when someone can't function on his own anymore.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I wrote this on the previous redirect of TS. This is reality in fiction, fiction in reality, and there has to be a reality in fiction side of the hoax. Not everything we hear is made up. And not everyone we see is in on the hoax. A dead body made sense to me always. That explains so well why the paramedics didn't recognize MJ because there was a dead body in the room but it wasn't MJ.
I believe that the courts are in the fiction in reality side of the hoax. There're main characters who know about the hoax but there're some witnesses and some others who have no idea about the hoax. I wrote this a couple of days ago in my Twitter.
Blame Murray and declare him like he's the killer of MJ and then let him go without any charges.Show the world injustice!
The reason of the court can be about showing the world the injustice in the governments.
And Serenity, you make some really valid and interesting points that I haven't even thought of.
This may be true, maybe that person was dependent on the machine to stay alive. I agree with SD about the declaration of the paramedics, Michael did not recognize that it was not, perhaps it was a person with cancer, one of the effects of chemotherapy is hair loss and the paramedics said it was a man with little hair. I remember the chef said at some point every day that Murray was down all day with some oxygen tanks, a dancer if something has to have is the ability to breathe and know how to do, then how is that supposed to be the Michael spent the night with oxygen position? Not understood, a dancer, if something is good at is breathing, it is a technique that can also learn to optimize physical performance.
One leads to the other.
I don't believe there was a real body of any sort, at any time in this hoax. I've thrown out lots of reasons why in the past, but I guess it really boils down to just gut instinct... a hunch.
Hard to do anything all for L.O.V.E. while mishandling a corpse. It's super bad PR. Dead bodies are not part of family friendly entertainment and MJ has always created entertainment appropriate for people of all ages.
I have a feeling TS is messing with us.
I think TS does not always direct us to the 'truth', but sometimes (as now) sends us on wild goose chases with red herrings (sorry for any non English speakers who probably think I've lost my marbles!), especially if we get too close to uncovering what really happened. Assuming TS and MJ are linked, he doesn't want us working it all out. MJ wants OUR jaws on the floor as well as the rest of the world's!
And you know how TS never just comes out and says it the way it is, there's always something cryptic about his posts and redirects. This one today could be taken, and has been by many, to mean there was a body used, but TS will easily be able to come back and explain that it was just meant to show MJ's body wasn't involved i.e. he's not dead!
Souza......wow! Great thoughts. Can't help but think about LaToya's comment at the airport about "while we're watching the right hand, we don't know what the left one is doing".
Bate and switch.......nobody sees the "moonwalking bear"!!!!
Mission accomplished!
sort of true. my grandmother was on life support when she passed away. thankfully we didn't have to decide for her, she just went by her own. however, even when someone is on life support, you can see on the machine that they sometimes are functioning by themselves and not relying 100% on the machine. this is, of course, certain cases. if the person was on life support and depended on it 100%, they would more than likely pass away within minutes of being taken off. if they were able to function slightly off it, but still needed life support to survive, it could be a while (certainly not a long time) before they passed away. i hope this makes sense.
@souza- your post was very interesting. something to think about. it certainly does make sense in terms of the emotions during this whole hoax. jermaine and joe's smiling (they maybe didn't know the double well enough), katherine's tears (she's very caring) and the kids' tearless faces at the memorial (it's not their dad). with that being said, if this double spent so much time with michael to mimic him as a person, poor guy must have been through hell. can you imagine michael going through this hoax, leaving his fans, compromising his family and then losing someone who would have had to be like a brother? it's just so sad.
The only evidence that Michael was supposedly 5' 11" comes from the Mug shot.
If Michael was wearing heels and they didn't make him remove his shoes that would account for the discrepancy in height. Not every person who is arrested is required to remove their shoes when a mug shot is taken. You would think that they would be required to do so but this isn't the case.
His license (which expired in 1989) from the FBI files shows a height of 5 '9" and a weight of 120lbs. The number on the license is N8685798
Michael Jackson's driver's license, which was part of the FBI's files.
The AR lists the bodies height as 5' 9" and 136lbs and states that a California DL was used to identify the body. The number on this license is N8685798, the same as the license that expired in 1989. It seems that the height and weight for the AR was recorded from the license. This doesn't mean that the license wasn't manipulated though but you would want to keep some things consistent to Michael, even in a hoax.
I believe that Michael was 5' 9" and he is a "lean" man, thin but muscular; a dancer's body. Any height differences in photographs that have been perceived over the years are due to heels and/or inserts that you can put in your shoes (lifts).
Here is an example:
Welcome to the Levitator Shoe Lift Company!
Brief Introduction
Levitator Lifts, a division of Canfield Plastics develops shoe lifts for people that need a comfortable, low cost, removable, high quality product and want to gain up to 2 1/2 inches in height.
http://www.levitatorlifts.com/
Estimating Time of Death (TOD)
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Coroner measures temperature of liver to determine time of death.
Medical investigators look for various signs to help them estimate a time frame - usually a two to four-hour window of time - in which the victim probably died. These signs may include the following:
* Rigor mortis
(the stiffening of the muscles that occurs shortly after death)
* Lividity (pooling of blood)
* Body core temperature
* Clouding of the corneas
* Evidence of a decompositional process
* Presence/absence of purge fluid
* Drying of the tissues.
The organs most commonly used to determine the body core temperature are the liver and the brain, because of their mass and density. After death, the body temperature falls toward the temperature of the surroundings at a rate of about one-and-a-half degrees per hour. This rate will vary depending on the amount of body fat, the amount of blood loss, the amount of type of clothing worn by the victim, the location of the body (whether it was lying near a heating or air conditioning vent or inside a cooler), and, if the body was found outdoors, on the weather conditions, including air temperature, wind, and precipitation (rain or snow).
http://www.trutv.com/shows/forensic_files/techniques/tod.html
http://books.google.ca/books?id=SCvuR7laiKcC&pg=PA657&lpg=PA657&dq=can+room+temperature+affect+determination+of+time+of+death%3F&source=bl&ots=tLHS6Oster&sig=Ij9L6VowHMK9vGbGTsIWC5_I9m0&hl=en&ei=zmQrTYLzDYi4sQO34LXfBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=can%20room%20temperature%20affect%20determination%20of%20time%20of%20death%3F&f=false
In the AR the temperature of the hospital room was recorded and included in the autopsy report. Page 3 of the Autopsy Report:
"The ambient temperature in the hospital room was 68 degrees F at 1815"
This was noted because it is used as a factor in determine TOD. The problem is that the person who died did not do so in that hospital room by all accounts they were already deceased when discovered at Carolwood. the heat was blasted in that room in the middle of summer. The reason for this may very well been to make TOD impossible.
When bodies are stored they are done so in refrigeration to slow the decomposition process, this doesn't stop it but can significantly slow it down. This would mean that if this body was of a recently deceased person, it could have been refrigerated, then moved to the Carolwood home and the surrounding temperature of the room would affect the temperature of the body. There is also the possibility as has been stated that this was a person who was brain dead and on life support and that this life support was turned off on or near June 25, 2009. Again the body would have had to have been moved to the Carolwood home or the equipment removed before 911 was called.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=3tO9uJOXktsC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=does+refrigeration+of+a+body+stop+decomposition%3F&source=bl&ots=reOgEN6UxT&sig=sNRM5uOcSjr8yBppS9oMElSu2xg&hl=en&ei=nmorTaO5NJK4sAPG96S1Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
I don't want to go into too much about myself personally here but my mother died alone, of a heart attack, in her mobile home, in the latter part of the month of May. The inside of the house was sweltering. She was discovered approximately 7-8 hours after she had passed away and decomposition was to such an extent that we were not able to view her before her funeral.
So if Michael (or anyone else) had passed away in that extremely hot room, hours before 911 was called, without refrigeration...
1. The body would have been showing signs of decomposition.
2. He definitely would not be appearing as he does in that ambulance photograph.
No authority involved is going to be fooled by a real body. They are trying to fabricate a reality and convince us of it despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Just going by what MJ has done in the past. Illusion and magic are key elements. His world is make-up, professional artists and actors, lots of technology, knowledge of various fields including medical. With all the gruesomeness of Thriller, or in the real world of movie-making such as Pirates of the Caribbean, there is no real decaying corpse involved. When BAM has come and MJ hopefully does some explaining, I don't think he's going to tell us some funny outtakes about when things went wrong and rigormortis kicked in and scared everyone, or everyone was gagging at the smell, or the eyelids wouldn't close and they ripped them trying to close them, on and on.
Thanks - I just laughed out loud when I read this!! <!-- s
Me too <!-- s
Getting back to the chopper videos where the "full" bag was exchanged by a "flat" bag (not coroner bags but white linens with more or less underneath"), I think there was a body or a mannequin at some moment, being "exchanged". There were even two choppers on the roof of UCLA.
Remembering that the person from the ambulance did sit up at the stretcher when entering UCLA, I'd say it was neither a dead person nor a mannequin playing the "full" bag part.
When they got into the coroner's car, the white linen was taken away and there was a "bee-hive" in and out of the car and I really counted, I admit, how many and who got in and out LOL.
Cedar's Hospital
We were told that Michael was seen in the area around Cedar's in April 2009: http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/04/michael-jacksons-suv-hits-ambulance
Cedar's specialize in immunobiology, lung disease, cancer, heart disorders and do have a neurosurgical institute.
http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/
Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center is a teaching hospital and is specialized as to trauma patients. Ronald Reagan has been in some controversial discussion, however is ranking among the best hospitals in the U.S. as to:
* Adult and Pediatric Organ Transplantation
* Cancer
* Geriatrics
* Heart Care
* Mental Health
* Minimally Invasive and Robotic Surgeries
* Ophthalmology
* Orthopaedics
* Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine
* Spine and Brain Disorders
http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/ronald-reagan-university-of-california-los-angeles-medical-center-6931755/about-us
The mansion:
The second entrance with the underground garage made Carolwood mansion a very strategic place. Close to Sunset Boulevard, a major traffic axis, not too far from neither Cedar's nor UCLA. It was hear-say that nobody was allowed upstairs in the mansion except Michael.
All of this fits well into an care plan for a dear friend.
... and the "wild goose chases" and "red herrings" are terms used in an ARG, which is something Serenity's Dream referred to in the original post that TS is redirecting to. So, IMO, this is what TS wants to highlight ... that we have been in an ARG situtation from the start and we are not meant to figure it out too soon, hence the red herrings that Curls pointed out will no doubt continue <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
LMAO, that was hilarious. Although I agree everything can be faked, i do think there is a reasonable possibility that there really did die someone that day, although I do like the scenario without real corpse though.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."But this is just my opinion and of course you can disagree. I have never received any hoax plan memo from anyone. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I also think that the information on the alias and labeling on the blood sample are important as they also substantiate that `It Ain`t Necessarily So`; things are not as they may appear at first glance. This entire adventure, requires thinking in bigger terms, outside the box, and maybe even not what you would normally expect to find.
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Swiftly moving on...
I have done a bit of research on Gershwin, and in addition to what SerenityDreams has already mentioned I found out that Lady Gaga performed a surprise show at the Oak room in New York and sang G Gershwin's "Someone to watch over me". Whilst it may be an unrelated event, the lyrics are very nearly relevant. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
With L.O.V.E