ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
You don't have to get rude.
Everyone here is looking for proof/evidence for the possible hoax, and the name-thing is important to figure out to the bottom.
So unless you come with real proof, I don't believe you.
YOU have been very rude with the "I don't believe you" and "So called experience" remarks.
I have nothing to gain visiting this forum and am simply contributing with my personal experience and knowledge. If you desire to treat me hostile and suspicious because of that, fine, but don't expect to help you any further. Perhaps searching for death certificates, birth certificates and other legal documents such as court transcripts on internetdatabases such as geneology databases will teach you more. Or call a "so called expert" in your own city.
ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
1. In principle it is not allowed, but it does happen anyway.
3. Besides by a physician or coroner, a death certificate is co-signed by a witness that identified the decedent, usually a family member or acquaintance.
Birth Date and Legal Presence and True Full Name Requirements
Why Is DMV So Careful About Identification?
The issue of identification—its reliability, integrity, confidentiality, etc. —is of prime concern to all citizens. The eligibility for government services, the issuance of various licenses, the assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents.
It is critical that identification documents and systems be authentic and accurate in order to positively and uniquely identify each individual. The California legislature has declared the California driver license (DL) and identification (ID) card as the primary identification documents in this state. California state law requires that all applicants for an original California DL/ID card submit proof of legal presence in the United States (U.S.) as authorized under federal law. Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card. These requirements help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of the documents issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).
Do You Need to Replace Documents?
If you need to replace or obtain your birth date/legal presence document, refer to the Vital Statistics information on the outside panels or <!-- m -->http://www.vitalrec.com<!-- m -->. Immigration-related service and benefit functions of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) transitioned into the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) as the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). The customer service phone number and website for USCIS is listed on the back panel.
Identity Requirements For an Original DL/ID Card
When you apply for an original California DL/ID card, you must present:
•An acceptable birth date/legal presence (BD/LP) document(s). •An acceptable true full name document if the name of your BD/LP document is different from the name on your DL/ID card application.•Your Social Security number (SSN). It will be verified with the Social Security Administration (SSA) while you are in the DMV office. You must also provide verification of your SSN to change an existing SSN on DMV’s date base.
There are 2 things possible:
1: He was born as Michael JOE Jackson
2: He was born as Michael JOSEPH Jackson, and changed his name into Michael JOE Jackson.
I think it's the first one, because he was too young to change his name during the Motown era.
In both cases he would die as Michael JOE Jackson, and his DC says Michael JOSEPH Jackson...
ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
1. In principle it is not allowed, but it does happen anyway.
3. Besides by a physician or coroner, a death certificate is co-signed by a witness that identified the decedent, usually a family member or acquaintance.
i disagree heavily. as i said, i have personal experience with this. but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
the website MichaelJosephJackson.com redirects you to MichaelJacksonLive.com (which is owned by the Michael Jackson Company and is the official Tour website), whereas MichaelJoeJackson.com does not, it redirects you to the domain sale page where the person selling has written:
"Appraised @ $30,000,000.00! MEMORABILIA CASH COW. Millions upon Millions to be made with this Doman Name. This is the real Deal! THIS IS HIS NAME AS STATED IN THE STATE of CA vs Michael Joe Jackson & IT'S ALSO ON HIS DRIVER LICENSE! Michael Joe Jackson. This is the best & only name you need to OWN! <!-- w -->www.MichaelJoeJackson.com<!-- w -->. You can inform the world everything that is going on with The New Songs, The CD's, The DVD's, The Case. Everything! So much MONEY to MAKE! Michael Joe Jackson will be even more famous in Death than he was in life! This domain name is a FANTASTIC INVESTMENT! A ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY! Please only make a serious offer to buy <!-- w -->www.MichaelJoeJackson.com<!-- w -->.
so, bit of both there <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Ofcourse JOE is a clue. I mean, it's on his passports, on his Motown contract (why would daddy Joe give a false name?), he says it in court...
I saw the same video. Not that I ever questioned it because I didn't. I work with documents and it's a case of symantics. Meaning it is understood that Michael Joe
and Michael Joseph are the same person. His ss death record says Michael Joseph. Therefore his app said Joseph and for his app to say Joseph, his birth certificate did.
He signed one his child's birth certificate with his full name, not the abbreviated version of Joe or Jos. My entire name as it reads on my ss has 24 letters. I use either 9 or 13 letter of that when I'm doing anything and I mean anything. The whole name is just to dang long. It's not a clue and would never old up in a court of law.
ok i live in the united states, specifically in california. 3 things.
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
The way they do passports now is probably a little different nowadays then it used to be. When I got my first passport and I'm a little older than Michael, I DIDN'T produce a birth certificate. So I'm showing my age and you are showing yours. You just lack knowledge on certain aspect of things so you draw the wrong conclusions. LaToya DID NOT sign the death certificate as to the cause of death. The coroners office handled that. Latoya signed the certificate as the INFORMANT. All death certifcates have an informant. It's usually a family member. Any family member, but it can be ANYONE.
When a member of your own family passes away you might be the INFORMANT that fills out the paperwork and you will sign the death certificate in that capacity. That also is not a clue here. It was perfectly normal for her to sign as the informant. Your grammy's doctor signed the death certifcate as both the INFORMANT and to the cause of death? That happens too. I'd post some of mine but all you have to do is look at recent online death certificateS for the famous and you will see the" informant "section. There's a name there and that person signed a piece of paper. If I recall Patrick Swayze's wife was his informant. She signed the record. The doctor probably signed off on the cause of death.
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
They made a mistake with the birth year? What are you talking about? I'm lost.
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
You sound exactly like Jewell, hmmm.
You don't get a mistake in the name in such an important trial, it could have caused a mistrial. Do you really think Sneddon would take that risk after 10 years of vendetta? I don't think so. Whatever his name was before, when that trial began his name was Michael Joe Jackson.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
You don't get a mistake in the name in such an important trial, it could have caused a mistrial. Do you really think Sneddon would take that risk after 10 years of vendetta? I don't think so. Whatever his name was before, when that trial began his name was Michael Joe Jackson.
Exactly. And I still believe that he was born as Joe.
I've posted this before, the whole Joe/Joseph issue is irrelevant.
Even when the only true name is the name that is written on a birth certificate, official documents often contain misspellings in the name, even death certificates. Death certificates often contain the name the person was known for or how they used to call themselves. I've seen hundreds of death certificates, and an alternate name or name spelling does NOT make the death certificate document less valid.
Whether his name was Joe or Joseph therefore is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. If the name on his birthcertificate spells "Michael Joseph Jackson", than that is his legal name. However he may have abbreviated it later in life as "Joe" and used it on legal documents. For the same reason, his name may have appeared on the death certificate as "Michael Joe Jackson".
You simply CAN'T conclude that because the name on the death certificate is "Michael Joe Jackson" that it does not concern Michael!
Another thing to one of the posters above about the legality of hoaxing a death: when someone is under OFFICIAL protection they can LEGALLY obtain a new identity.
Thank you for sharing! I think it expalins everything!
Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card.
The name on his ID/DL/in court is Joe, so you can conclude that the name on his birth certificate is Joe.
Even Katherine said it, and I can't imagine that she would say his name is Michael Joe Jackson, and in the meanwhile his birth certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson.
Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card.
The name on his ID/DL/in court is Joe, so you can conclude that the name on his birth certificate is Joe.
Even Katherine said it, and I can't imagine that she would say his name is Michael Joe Jackson, and in the meanwhile his birth certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson.
We all found in the web passports named on Michael Joe Jackson, but in 2006, Michael visits a friend in germany and he call the police to help, because too much fans came in the street. The police wanted to se Michaels passport and they say it was Michael Joseph Jackson , born in Gary Indiana.
I am sure there are two, Michael Joe and Michael Joseph.
Here is the article....sorry in german....but it was in Hamburg :
<!-- m -->http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/ar ... ndorf.html<!-- m -->
I believe that he hated his father, and that is why he always says Joe...
it is a possibility, in his early years.
But maybe he wanted to create confusion over his real name?
I don't understand, I read all this thread and I still don't know which one is his real name <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Maybe he has a secret twin brother <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
We all found in the web passports named on Michael Joe Jackson, but in 2006, Michael visits a friend in germany and he call the police to help, because too much fans came in the street. The police wanted to se Michaels passport and they say it was Michael Joseph Jackson , born in Gary Indiana.
I am sure there are two, Michael Joe and Michael Joseph.
Here is the article....sorry in german....but it was in Hamburg :
<!-- m -->http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/ar ... ndorf.html<!-- m -->
The article only says that the police asked for the passport of Michael Joseph Jackson, born in Gary, Indiana.
So who says that the name on his passport was Joseph?
I haven't seen any official document from him with Joseph on it.
it is a possibility, in his early years.
But maybe he wanted to create confusion over his real name?
I don't understand, I read all this thread and I still don't know which one is his real name <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Maybe he has a secret twin brother <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
I really believe that he was born as Joe, but changed his 'artistname' into Joseph. Just to keep his artist life and private life apart.
I don't believe he had a twinbrother, because there's no reason for Katherine and Joe to hide one of their kids.
I was watching ET and other entertainment shows tonight and they showed a copy of Sandra Bullock's divorce papers....well she used her initials BACKWARDS "B.A.S" in her divorce filing....can this be legit and legal still?
I can't believe the american system is so careless about a person's name on an official id document like a driving licence or a passport.
I the whole Europe there's this rule - your full name from the birth certificate must be on all official papers, id's, contracts etc.
I simply don't understand how Michael is Joe on passport and driving licence and Joseph on his kids' BC and his marriage certificate with Lisa.
But I must admitt Joe seems to an abreviation of Joseph.
I am not sure of anything <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Kuki from Netherlands and MJJ1982, you kill me with those signature pictures <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Comments
1. as far as i know, any dealings with the court system you have to use your full and legal name- no abbreviations are allowed.
2. you need a birth certificate and have to fill out government forms to obtain a passport. therefore, what is printed on your birth certificate is printed on your passport. it is a form of identification that requires the full legal name.
3. can we please remember that LATOYA signed the death certificate? this in itself is ridiculous. an example- my mother did not sign ANYWHERE on my grandma's death certificate. it's signed by the doctor and coroner. [my grandma died in california so i know the rules when it comes to this] the death certificate is NOT VALID.
I have nothing to gain visiting this forum and am simply contributing with my personal experience and knowledge. If you desire to treat me hostile and suspicious because of that, fine, but don't expect to help you any further. Perhaps searching for death certificates, birth certificates and other legal documents such as court transcripts on internetdatabases such as geneology databases will teach you more. Or call a "so called expert" in your own city.
3. Besides by a physician or coroner, a death certificate is co-signed by a witness that identified the decedent, usually a family member or acquaintance.
Why Is DMV So Careful About Identification?
The issue of identification—its reliability, integrity, confidentiality, etc. —is of prime concern to all citizens. The eligibility for government services, the issuance of various licenses, the assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents.
It is critical that identification documents and systems be authentic and accurate in order to positively and uniquely identify each individual. The California legislature has declared the California driver license (DL) and identification (ID) card as the primary identification documents in this state. California state law requires that all applicants for an original California DL/ID card submit proof of legal presence in the United States (U.S.) as authorized under federal law. Your true full name, as shown on your legal presence document and/or your name change document, will appear on your DL/ID card. These requirements help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of the documents issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).
Do You Need to Replace Documents?
If you need to replace or obtain your birth date/legal presence document, refer to the Vital Statistics information on the outside panels or <!-- m -->http://www.vitalrec.com<!-- m -->. Immigration-related service and benefit functions of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) transitioned into the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) as the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). The customer service phone number and website for USCIS is listed on the back panel.
Identity Requirements For an Original DL/ID Card
When you apply for an original California DL/ID card, you must present:
•An acceptable birth date/legal presence (BD/LP) document(s).
•An acceptable true full name document if the name of your BD/LP document is different from the name on your DL/ID card application.•Your Social Security number (SSN). It will be verified with the Social Security Administration (SSA) while you are in the DMV office. You must also provide verification of your SSN to change an existing SSN on DMV’s date base.
There are 2 things possible:
1: He was born as Michael JOE Jackson
2: He was born as Michael JOSEPH Jackson, and changed his name into Michael JOE Jackson.
I think it's the first one, because he was too young to change his name during the Motown era.
In both cases he would die as Michael JOE Jackson, and his DC says Michael JOSEPH Jackson...
i disagree heavily. as i said, i have personal experience with this. but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
"Appraised @ $30,000,000.00! MEMORABILIA CASH COW. Millions upon Millions to be made with this Doman Name. This is the real Deal! THIS IS HIS NAME AS STATED IN THE STATE of CA vs Michael Joe Jackson & IT'S ALSO ON HIS DRIVER LICENSE! Michael Joe Jackson. This is the best & only name you need to OWN! <!-- w -->www.MichaelJoeJackson.com<!-- w -->. You can inform the world everything that is going on with The New Songs, The CD's, The DVD's, The Case. Everything! So much MONEY to MAKE! Michael Joe Jackson will be even more famous in Death than he was in life! This domain name is a FANTASTIC INVESTMENT! A ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY! Please only make a serious offer to buy <!-- w -->www.MichaelJoeJackson.com<!-- w -->.
so, bit of both there <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
This Is the form of identification " Michael JOE Jackson" !(Driver License)
But Death Certificate, and Autopsy Report is write Michael JOSEPH Jackson.
And the hair is "BROWN" ?????
Have a Look at this, its different, its all a Fake?!
<!-- m -->http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7613/autopsy1.jpg<!-- m -->
I saw the same video. Not that I ever questioned it because I didn't. I work with documents and it's a case of symantics. Meaning it is understood that Michael Joe
and Michael Joseph are the same person. His ss death record says Michael Joseph. Therefore his app said Joseph and for his app to say Joseph, his birth certificate did.
He signed one his child's birth certificate with his full name, not the abbreviated version of Joe or Jos. My entire name as it reads on my ss has 24 letters. I use either 9 or 13 letter of that when I'm doing anything and I mean anything. The whole name is just to dang long. It's not a clue and would never old up in a court of law.
The way they do passports now is probably a little different nowadays then it used to be. When I got my first passport and I'm a little older than Michael, I DIDN'T produce a birth certificate. So I'm showing my age and you are showing yours. You just lack knowledge on certain aspect of things so you draw the wrong conclusions. LaToya DID NOT sign the death certificate as to the cause of death. The coroners office handled that. Latoya signed the certificate as the INFORMANT. All death certifcates have an informant. It's usually a family member. Any family member, but it can be ANYONE.
When a member of your own family passes away you might be the INFORMANT that fills out the paperwork and you will sign the death certificate in that capacity. That also is not a clue here. It was perfectly normal for her to sign as the informant. Your grammy's doctor signed the death certifcate as both the INFORMANT and to the cause of death? That happens too. I'd post some of mine but all you have to do is look at recent online death certificateS for the famous and you will see the" informant "section. There's a name there and that person signed a piece of paper. If I recall Patrick Swayze's wife was his informant. She signed the record. The doctor probably signed off on the cause of death.
It means they made a mistake with the birth year. Mistakes happen. I looked at my sister's facebook page last night and noticed she doesn't spell her middle name correctly. It's a mistake. She never gets mine right either. My own mother and my other sister have always put my birth year down wrong - legal documents and all. No kidding ! lol I never have a problem though.
As for the signature...I completely scrawled mine this morning on a receipt. I was in a hurry. Sometimes signatures are a little different.
They made a mistake with the birth year? What are you talking about? I'm lost.
You sound exactly like Jewell, hmmm.
You don't get a mistake in the name in such an important trial, it could have caused a mistrial. Do you really think Sneddon would take that risk after 10 years of vendetta? I don't think so. Whatever his name was before, when that trial began his name was Michael Joe Jackson.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Exactly. And I still believe that he was born as Joe.
EXACTLY...This is what i thought all along
Seems another forum is disecting this as well...
<!-- m -->http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-joe ... t922-0.htm<!-- m -->
The name on his ID/DL/in court is Joe, so you can conclude that the name on his birth certificate is Joe.
Even Katherine said it, and I can't imagine that she would say his name is Michael Joe Jackson, and in the meanwhile his birth certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson.
Totally agree with you!
I am sure there are two, Michael Joe and Michael Joseph.
Here is the article....sorry in german....but it was in Hamburg :
<!-- m -->http://www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/ar ... ndorf.html<!-- m -->
it is a possibility, in his early years.
But maybe he wanted to create confusion over his real name?
I don't understand, I read all this thread and I still don't know which one is his real name <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Maybe he has a secret twin brother <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
The article only says that the police asked for the passport of Michael Joseph Jackson, born in Gary, Indiana.
So who says that the name on his passport was Joseph?
I haven't seen any official document from him with Joseph on it.
I really believe that he was born as Joe, but changed his 'artistname' into Joseph. Just to keep his artist life and private life apart.
I don't believe he had a twinbrother, because there's no reason for Katherine and Joe to hide one of their kids.
All so fishy....
I the whole Europe there's this rule - your full name from the birth certificate must be on all official papers, id's, contracts etc.
I simply don't understand how Michael is Joe on passport and driving licence and Joseph on his kids' BC and his marriage certificate with Lisa.
But I must admitt Joe seems to an abreviation of Joseph.
I am not sure of anything <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Instead of reading the posts I stare at them ahhhhhhh
Me too hahahahaha <!-- s