If TS was an illuminati agent he wouldn't be promoting the returning of the pyramid upside down or raising awareness on the evil works of the dark side as he's been doing in his updates, nor talk about the beauty of God's system. Doesn't make sense really. I agree that the term illuminati is reducing, I call it the dark side.
The main message of the hoax is [fade:1g5vx41f]"It's all for L.O.V.E."[/fade:1g5vx41f] .... I highly doubt that this is what they would promote as a message. And Michael is the Messenger and has been since many years now .... certainly not the anti-christ that as said by WhiteNight I believe is a system and not a single person. So I will say that the message of the hoax doesn't fit with what the PTB or Illuminati or dark side would promote. If they really discovered Michael's plan they would have modified it. One big point against the murder theory I think = the message.
I also believe that they certainly can't have discovered this plan because this is God's Plan. I know it doesn't fit into this category of investigation but this is a strong belief.
If there was forensic evidence that this is a hoax then there would hardly be a hoax in the first place, so it's normal we don't have the BIG evidence proving it's a hoax without the shadow of a doubt. This has always been all the pieces of the puzzle put together that makes it to be a hoax (without the shadow of a doubt <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ).
<br /> However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
<br /><br />But how can you prove that?...some people don't think the Illuminati exists.<br /><br />Of course no one can prove that this is a hoax, but if you were in a court and you had testimony by all the family (the family saying MJ was a drug addict, wasn't a drug addict, that they had interventions or that he was not addicted to drugs and the continual change of stories of where they were when MJ 'died') isn't that enough...if a jury looked at this, so if this was an actual case, no one would know what to believe, because the don't have a straight story...I know we are not in court here, but it would discredit you to continually change your story, the events won't add up, so people will have a hard time believing anything you say.
Firstly, thank you to everyone who has contributed so far to this thread. There's been some thoughtful and interesting posts - even the more 'controversial' ones - I've enjoyed reading them all.
Disclaimer: I don’t necessarily believe what I’m about to write! Just exploring other sides – trying to find the truth, you know.
TS, I understand you want us to explore every possibility, but you have made a huge jump here, an ASSumption even, (if I’m allowed to use that word!) by using the hypothetical scenario that the illuminati were responsible for MJ’s murder.
Backtracking and keeping things simple, to explore if MJ is dead/was killed why not go down the route of Dr Murray ‘killing’ him simply through an irresponsible use of medication? Why the jump to Illuminati? If he’s dead, is the ‘simple’ theory of manslaughter actually, really, that unbelievable? It seems to be suiting the majority of the world, after all. Or is that what they want us to believe? Just saying.
Because it was MJ, did it have to be made more complicated, more sinister? Could the family not accept a tragic ‘accidental’ death (much like we couldn’t), and so began the mysterious references to the involvement of ‘others’. Did the family instigate and perpetuate the doubts, the hoax?
You said: "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?"
That would have MJ believing Murray was helping him with his hoax, whereas he was really about to kill him, at the planned time. So MJ would’ve never known he was being deceived, but he could at least have the satisfaction of looking down from his cloud up above and seeing that his meticulous planning was not going to waste, as his hoax was still being carried forward, to the letter, by his killers – it didn’t die with him.
Oh really? I can see no need or motive for a hoax, unless it’s MJ’s and he’s alive!
But if others were involved, Illuminati, TPTB (which is the term I prefer to use), whoever – there’s a couple of options. Either it’s their hoax, constructed and planned to be totally Michaelish, over many years, involving the control of MJ’s lyrics, speeches and interviews, in fact his whole life, or they must somehow have known of MJ’s hoax plans, carried out their murder and continued with MJ’s hoax, as I said above. In either case, it would appear that you, TS, have been put in place to further their cause. There’s a hoax, whatever's going on. What would be the motive for either of these options?
What is the motive for a hoax? A murder could’ve been far simpler, a ‘natural’ death. Why involve a doctor and a court case? But even if they did, with the power they have they would’ve surely got Murray acquitted or jailed months ago, case closed, job done.
So, I’m back to the money – it is the motive for many crimes, and it has been said many times that MJ is worth more dead than alive. But is the hoax itself, over and above the ‘death’, making anyone any money?
TPTB are about control, right? Did they misjudge MJ’s millions of supporters and fans, did they think they’d all jump on the hoax bandwagon and be controlled that way? Why then are they carrying on with what is little more than a handful of hoax believers? Why are you still here TS? Are you controlling me?
I realise I’ve not said much, if anything, here in support of the hoax for you to debunk with the murder theory! I’m with you here TS – I want to try and prove he’s dead, I want to try to prove it’s my imagination and fantasy, not because I want him dead (heaven forbid) but because I want the truth, whatever that may be, about Michael - and about myself.
'There is no hoax, the illuminati got him'. I’m really interested in hearing how you’re going to prove it.
Welcome back TS. I was expecting you to come back when the trial begins but it is nice to see you earlier. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
Ahh this is a nice topic to discuss about. Well if Michael was murdered then the family has to be illuminati, as well as Kenny Ortega, TII dancers, Teddy Riley, many of Michael's friend's and also YOU. To me the most solid proof of the hoax is the numerology. I do not believe illuminati would bother to arrange the dates like this and I do not believe they would bother to give out clues. On the contrary they would be trying to cover their tracks. I don't get the reason why they would bother to send someone here to tell us more about the details of the hoax because as much as we learn about the hoax, as much as we reach to a higher awareness about illuminati and NWO. How many of us knew this much about illuminati and NWO before June 25th? I do believe that Michael wanted to let us know and this is one of the main reasons of the hoax. For years he tried to show it with his songs and speeches but unfortunately that wasn't enough for people to see the naked truth and he knew that. He had to do something bigger! And he did. And thanks to Michael WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
The clues we have been receiving are so unique and so Michaelish and to me noone but only Michael can arrange all these details and clues. We're getting the clues from everywhere. Not only from one single media source. Commercials, movies, tv shows, paintings etc... I don't see a reason for illuminati to give out clues through movies, commercials or tv shows. And why would they bother to make it look like a hoax and he is still alive? If they killed him, that's it. They killed him and they would do nothing. They don't need to do anything. They would have reached their goal already by killing him, no need to give out clues.
I know that some of the fans think that Michael's family can do anything to earn more $$$. I do believe that Michael loves his family a lot and his family loves him a lot too. I would never ever believe that they would be included in a murder plot where their brother, their son was going to get killed. NO WAY! The family knows about the hoax and noone could force them for the Liberian Girl pictures at the funeral. Noone could force them to make the memorial and the funeral on those dates under a full moon. This is an amazing plan which was planned for long years. This is something that has never ever done before. This is a movie, an ARG, a show, a take over and the story of a King who comes BACK to life after death. This is so unique and so genius. This is so MICHAEL!
I would like to read if you or any of the believers can debunk the hoax with all the aspects we discussed till today. Then I would be leaving everything behind, mourn for Michael (once more), and then go back to my pre hoax life. Until then, I'll be here as a KNOWER. Noone and nothing can shake my faith! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Pure Love I love your post and I couldn't agree more. Why would the Illuminati allow us to know about them, about their plans and about their cult through this whole hoax unless there is someone else behind this whole thing. And yes, we discovered everything about the Illuminati after we found out about the hoax, i.e. after the 25th of June. Which murderer would murder someone and leave clues about where he comes from and what his beliefs are? Are the Illuminati guys that stupid????? There is no doubt that Michael is behind all this.... So TS..... I'm keeping the faith.... I believe that Michael is still alive and doing great.......... and I would like to thank him for exposing the Illuminati to us through this hoax......... Thank you Michael, God bless you
Peace
My comments are in RED<br /><br />["TS_comments"]<br /><br /><br />"As usual, I have waited for the dust to settle, before posting anything."... Really? You've been gone for many weeks. Needed time to conjure up more "thought provoking" theories? <br /><br />"Also, people will now have trouble accusing me of trying to cover up a murder plot—because the murder theory is exactly what I will now be attempting to defend"!... Why would ppl have trouble accusing you? And why are you "attempting" to defend the murder theory when you've been deferring ppl to believe a hoax? <br /><br />"However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this?"...So, is that what you're saying? And can YOU debunk this?<br /><br />"If the family does not know about the hoax, then we might as well say that MJ himself doesn’t know about it either! The family has repeatedly said that they know what happened to MJ; so if there is a hoax, then they know about it. And if they don’t know about any hoax, it’s because there is none—instead, the Illuminati got him. Which is it? That’s the multi-million dollar question!!!"....That's not necesarily true. It's possible that not ALL family members know. <br /><br />I for one don't have stone proof of a hoax OR murder. I can't debunk either. We could go 'round and 'round with this shit for two more years. But I will believe he's alive until there's solid PROOF that he's dead. And as of yet, I've not seen his dead body. And THAT'S what it's gonna take. I refuse to let any damn body put one thought in my head that he allowed ppl to take him out. No matter how many numbers you throw at me. Respectively.<br /><br />P.S. These are MY thoughts only. Like TS said, I'm not here for a popularity contest. I'm just here for the truth and I don't think I'll get it by playing games.
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:34s72bs0] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:34s72bs0] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.<br /><br />Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius. <br /><br />Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:34s72bs0]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:34s72bs0] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.<br /><br />We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander. <br /><br />And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:34s72bs0]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:34s72bs0] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.<br /><br />But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <br /><br />I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
<br />Ok MJonmind.... let's discuss this! Why would the Illuminati bother themselves with this hoax? They punished MJ once.. threw him in jail....But MJ didn't accept this and planned a revenge... I would do the same if I were in his place......<br />Why would MJ agree to play this role and BAM when they ask them to? MJ was under mind control and we know he broke free (black panther video) So why would he suddenly return to them? I must admit that I don't know MJ that much but we all know that he is a very brave man. Remember when he said in front of thousands of people that Mottola is the devil? Wouldn't he say the same about the Illuminati too? Would he follow their plans blindly? I doubt. He is not the kind of guy who does what other people tells him to do. In my opinion this is the main reason for the hoax.... raisng awareness about what 's going on around us... and again, why would the Illuminati bother themselves and plan such a hoax in the first place. They could have finished him in silence leaving no clues behind....That's the way these people work.<br />Blessings
<br /> However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level.
<br /><br />But how can you prove that?...some people don't think the Illuminati exists.<br />
<br /><br />mhmm, like me.<br /><br />I don 't believe in god, numerology, or the Illuminati... but I concede that my belief (or not) in such things does not matter... only my acceptance that Michael believes in these things, and I do accept that. For the god and numerology parts it hasn't been important for me to believe in the course of investigation and connecting the dots, but this one I'm having difficulty wrapping my brain around. In order to play along with you this time I would have to pretend to believe and that feels quite disingenuous. <br /><br />Maybe I'll figure out a way to participate, or how to come to terms with this in a few days.<br /><br />Ps, happy 2 years TS, thanks for sticking with us.
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:2hure5or] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:2hure5or] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.<br /><br />Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius. <br /><br />Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:2hure5or]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:2hure5or] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.<br /><br />We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander. <br /><br />And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:2hure5or]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:2hure5or] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.<br /><br />But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <br /><br />I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
<br />Ok MJonmind.... let's discuss this! Why would the Illuminati bother themselves with this hoax? They punished MJ once.. threw him in jail....But MJ didn't accept this and planned a revenge... I would do the same if I were in his place......<br />Why would MJ agree to play this role and BAM when they ask them to? MJ was under mind control and we know he broke free (black panther video) So why would he suddenly return to them? I must admit that I don't know MJ that much but we all know that he is a very brave man. Remember when he said in front of thousands of people that Mottola is the devil? Wouldn't he say the same about the Illuminati too? Would he follow their plans blindly? I doubt. He is not the kind of guy who does what other people tells him to do. In my opinion this is the main reason for the hoax.... raisng awareness about what 's going on around us... and again, why would the Illuminati bother themselves and plan such a hoax in the first place. They could have finished him in silence leaving no clues behind....That's the way these people work.<br />Blessings
@alsmom, Instead of having the 'I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head' mindset, why don't you use this opportunity to explore these thoughts with us. If your belief that MJ is alive is based on firm ground it will not shake by entertaining other ideas. It will be strengthened by being able to debunk them. That's my experience anyway.
I don't think we share the same views on TS if you think he is 'playing games'. But that's ok, I don't expect us all to agree!
And if there wasn't Illuminati? I know that TS only has this alternative, but to me the most convinvente would be the existence of a mob that wanted to stop for some reason Michael to back to his brilliant career. The reason may be envy, racism or revenge. For me it's still very strange that only a few months after Michael to do the protest in 2002, Bashir appears to ruin his life and shortly after the allegations in early 2003.
Defending the theory of murder is not so difficult, especially after a weekend that I saw again several documentaries and entevistas about Michael's death.
It's amazing how people say the same thing: Michael was hopelessly addicted to painkillers. One such documentary cites the appearance of Michael, very thin, with droopy eyes and a little strange behavior, like no energy.
I'm not saying that is what I believe, but I'll just look at what we're listening to two years of people close to Michael, including the family.
TS said that he followed Jermaine, [shadow=blue:1sq37gio]I'll follow what LaToya wrote in his book, because after all it was quite convincing and has said this since 2009 and Rowe and Joe Jackson too[/shadow:1sq37gio].
People surrounding Michael might actually be manipulating and controlling your life, making it hopelessly addicted.
Maybe Michael hired Murray to protect him somehow, maybe even Murray tried, but who can stand against the plots of a powerful mafia?
This theory of murder is not easy to debunk, but I'll try to follow, according to some very strange things that still make me be believer.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]This Is It[/glow:1sq37gio]
In the film, Michael is beautiful and looks great. We see him as a genius laboring, sending at all and giving the last word. But when it was recorded This Is It? Under what conditions was recorded? For that Michael agreed to record these images? To his children? Randy Phillips and Ortega said yes, he wanted the children to see him acting.
Was it? Or was it more a manipulation?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Michael so thin![/glow:1sq37gio]
He was visibly much thinner than normal. This weight loss may be part of the hoax, something like: he had to look thin and weak and so people do not believe in his addiction. He may have made a proper diet to lose weight as well as actors are to play a role in the movies. Cherill Lee said that his tests were fine and that he was healthy and one doctor said he had a body of an astronaut. The problem is we do not know if these tests exist.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Photo fake, and no body:[/glow:1sq37gio]
The family may have chosen not to show Michael death, one of them said they would not deliver a Michael as trophy to the press have always wanted to overthrow him. It may have been responsible for the family photo ecomendar this fake?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Death certificates and autopsy[/glow:1sq37gio]
There may be other oficial documents, that the public has no access. These documents may have the correct name of Michael, a doctor's signature on the death certificate and a certificate of autopsy true, after all, these documents are official and no one can access. Why would TMZ?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Murray and the murder[/glow:1sq37gio]
All the family say he is a scapegoat. If there was a Mafia to kill Michael, they certainly watched every step of Murray and the fateful day, they may have enjoyed the brief absence of Murray to enter the room and inject the fatal dose of propofol.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Investigations[/glow:1sq37gio]
Certainly there is a serious research being done. And nobody will have access to it until it is completely finished. Perhaps the FBI is involved and know who really killed Michael, but still could not catch them all. Meanwhile, Murray takes the blame of the crime to avoid the real bad guys flee. It can also be protected by the FBI because it runs the risk of being murdered as well. Perhaps for this reason that no one sees and does not know where he hides.
When the investigation comes to an end, Murray will be free and the real gangsters are convicted, do you remember that Murray said: "the truth will prevail."
I do not want none of this is true, I also know that just as the hoax theory, this theory of murder also has its flaws, but proposed a TS game, so I'm in.
I definitely wanna see this theory debunked.
But unfortunately I know that she is more convincing than the hoax, so 99% of people in the world believe in it. <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ -->
[font=cursive:hbxjtkd3](Trying out new fonts and colors for fun )
I'm thinking a little along the lines being expressed here on this topic, that the illuminati murdering Michael, in any way would eventually come down to being found out. Hell, we are here talking about it, so you know others are too. It would've been much easier for them to just have it look like a natural death, maybe too frail to have rehearsed and had a heart attack...bam done. Not involved the drugs to sleep story or Dr. M. Now, the longer this goes on the more chances of them being found out to be the culprit.
I still think this is Sony behind all this. That was Michael's bandwagon. Even with others in charge now of Sony, they were in it with Sneddon to but him away (read Lynton Guests book). Michael knows that and he also feels e lost a lot of income during those years. I think he's undoing all that damage. Michael was worried that he was going to be killed for that catalog. Who could gain by that? Who would be the THEY? Sony could exercise control of his portion if he died...which also tells me he's not dead. Now, I suppose Sony could majorally be involved with the illuminati, but, again, why draw it out when they could feed the media stories about Michael's health and not have all these years to slip up or have someone blap. Really, to me, it's not possible for them to have done this. People would talk for enough money..no secret is ever secret forever. [/font:hbxjtkd3]
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
@alsmom, Instead of having the 'I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head' mindset, why don't you use this opportunity to explore these thoughts with us. If your belief that MJ is alive is based on firm ground it will not shake by entertaining other ideas. It will be strengthened by being able to debunk them. That's my experience anyway.
I don't think we share the same views on TS if you think he is 'playing games'. But that's ok, I don't expect us all to agree!
Thank you for your input @curls. I assure you, I don't have the "I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head" mindset. It's almost as if, suddenly, alot of ppl wants us to think or believe Michael is dead. If someone, ANYONE, can give me proof that Michael is dead I'm gonna believe he's alive. And believe you me, I have definately explored the posibility of death. Acually, I believed he was murdered in the beginning. Til Oct. 2009. The demoninator for me NOW is a hoax. I think a "murder for hire" conspiracy is viable. However, Michael just beat them to it. And just like the hoax, I'm gonna guess that this won't be debunked anytime soon. Like I stated in my previous post, I'm not 100% sure of either hoax or murder. Like Janet Jackson said..."If you tell me I'm wrong, then you'd better prove you're right".
I simply posted my thoughts and asked TS a couple of questions. I have a feeling I won't get anwered. At this point I have no idea what his/her intentions are. And is he/she waiting for 30 pages to decide what HIS/HER theory is? There's so many brilliant minds in this forum that posts. What better way to have an "idea" of a theory than to combine those brilliant minds into one? These are NOT insinuations...they're questions. I'm not blinded by false hopes..I just seek the truth. I've not compeltely found it yet. I'm just tired of barking up the wrong trees.
TS's post puts me in mind of when I was growing up. My mother used to tell me something and I would ask, "But why"? She would say, "Because I said so, that's why"! <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ -->
Oh, and I know we have something in common...we love Michael Jackson! And I love you! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
<br /><br />[font=fantasy:n7ae474u]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...<br />This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:<br /><br />In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.<br /><br />So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.<br />Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.<br />You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:n7ae474u]
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
<br /><br />[font=fantasy:1c9wlcwv]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...<br />This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:<br /><br />In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.<br /><br />So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.<br />Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.<br />You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:1c9wlcwv]
<br /><br />Hi @fortocarr! That's totally logical. It seems to me that alot of the roads lead to Sony. At least it's more conceivable..AND..believable IMO. Michael may've had/have illuminati in his thoughts but he loudly, publicly and vehemently protested Sony's actions towards and against him. There's still a vast amount of pieces to this puzzle that I'm seeking. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Also, if indeed Michael is no longer with us on earth and Sony IS behind his death, they're gonna WAIT for a "takeover". It would be too obvious if they didn't ('cuz from what I've read, they can). And my thoughts may not matter to others, but they matter to me <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
All possessions become controlled by the estate, which are a bunch of lawyers, upon death, which would make it more difficult (or at least more complicated) to obtain control of those possessions (ie. catalog). It would be easier to gain control of the catalog with Michael alive then dead so that makes no logical sense at all.
<br /><br />[font=fantasy:30h0voya]I hope you can explain this to me a little without being quite so rude by saying I make no logical sense at all...<br />This is from Wikipedia, which I've found in a lot of other places also:<br /><br />In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson's stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[26][27][28][29] Sony has not exercised the option.<br /><br />So, it doesn't say that if MIchael were alive OR dead. Just that it can at any time. I think that Michael would've done all he could've to stopped that from happening....so supposedly are the attny's and estate...but....so also could Michael fight it through them if he's ALIVE.<br />Tell me why Sony HASN'T done this. Why instead they continue to make larger contracts with Michael? Surely, cutting out Michael's part would gain them perhaps billions.<br />You can disagree, but does that make what I believe less logical that what you believe? To the world we are illogical anyhow. Isn't why were here to state our reasons to believe, bounce them around? I don't care if you feel MY feelings or thoughts are not logical, it's what I believe. Just as some believe in the illuminati or what, I feel Sony is behind this.[/font:30h0voya]
<br /><br />Hi @fortocarr! That's totally logical. It seems to me that alot of the roads lead to Sony. At least it's more conceivable..AND..believable IMO. Michael may've had/have illuminati in his thoughts but he loudly, publicly and vehemently protested Sony's actions towards and against him. There's still a vast amount of pieces to this puzzle that I'm seeking. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Also, if indeed Michael is no longer with us on earth and Sony IS behind his death, they're gonna WAIT for a "takeover". It would be too obvious if they didn't ('cuz from what I've read, they can). And my thoughts may not matter to others, but they matter to me <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
<br /><br />[font=fantasy:30h0voya]Thank you dahlin' <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->♥[/font:30h0voya]
[font=cursive:13kozebo](Trying out new fonts and colors for fun )
I'm thinking a little along the lines being expressed here on this topic, that the illuminati murdering Michael, in any way would eventually come down to being found out. Hell, we are here talking about it, so you know others are too. It would've been much easier for them to just have it look like a natural death, maybe too frail to have rehearsed and had a heart attack...bam done. Not involved the drugs to sleep story or Dr. M. Now, the longer this goes on the more chances of them being found out to be the culprit.
I still think this is Sony behind all this. That was Michael's bandwagon. Even with others in charge now of Sony, they were in it with Sneddon to but him away (read Lynton Guests book). Michael knows that and he also feels e lost a lot of income during those years. I think he's undoing all that damage. Michael was worried that he was going to be killed for that catalog. Who could gain by that? Who would be the THEY? Sony could exercise control of his portion if he died...which also tells me he's not dead. Now, I suppose Sony could majorally be involved with the illuminati, but, again, why draw it out when they could feed the media stories about Michael's health and not have all these years to slip up or have someone blap. Really, to me, it's not possible for them to have done this. People would talk for enough money..[glow=red:13kozebo]no secret is ever secret forever[/glow:13kozebo]. [/font:13kozebo]
I for one do not think that Michael is dead but there is a quote that says "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"
Just thought I'd share.
Bec, do you believe in the Mafia, some purpose of the Bible as literature, the Morovingians, Freemasons, the Templars, CIA involvement in 911? There’s so many specific entities talked about, that relate to big organizations, secrets, involvements at some point in major government, religions, and major events. At some point you must believe in this but stop at that. We ordinary people can’t possibly know the full scoop, and have to grasp at straws of knowledge.
Some believe the Illuminati was a group name started in Bavaria but long since disbanded, and who knows. TPTB is also a good name, but the thing is we need to call the major opponents or the protagonists in the story something. Perhaps TS is using the term Illuminati because it was what many were using and he is just sticking with that. Like I've said in other posts a while back, maybe in the end we'll find out the good ones are really evil and the evil ones are really good, or the etch-a-stetch will be shaken and everyone gets to start over picking roles and sides. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> God's chess game!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
the complete summary of the book La Toya, she talks about Dileo, Sony among others
Prologue
- She didn't want to write her first book , Jack Gordon made her do it.
- Jack Gordon controlled her for a decade.
- 2003 interview with Larry King made her want to help other women in the same situation.
- 2007/2008 she decides to write the book she wants to tell her family first so that they don't get the wrong idea. Before she can Michael calls Katherine and says to her that Randy told her that Latoya was writing a book and Katherine says to Michael not to believe Randy.
Chapter 1: He's Going to Kill You
- 1993 incident of Gordon beating her.
- She says Michael knew Gordon was dangerous through Dileo and few years ago warned her that he's going to kill her.
- She says Michael was frightened of Gordon.
Chapter 2: I Wish I Could Have Your Life
- Talks about how no one from outside knew or saw the abuse she received
- Talks about meeting Jack Gordon
- She talks about her JW raising made her trusting people
- Insert Michael going door to door as JW
- Talks about how Gordon started to work for Joe, how she wanted to be independent and leave Joe's management and how Gordon became her manager.
Chapter 3: Illusions of Freedom
- She calls Joe a good starter manager.
- 1987 trip to Japan was Gordon her manager.
- Gordon takes her passport and controls her.
- Insert Michael she says that she believed Michael went through the same things as her and became a victim as wolves targeted and exploited him. Again effects of religious beliefs mentioned.
Chapter 4: A Smile for the Public
- Talks about mind games that Gordon was playing with her such as beating her ant hen saying that he didn't beat her.
- Believes that Gordon gave her mind-altering drugs
- Blames her live performances on Gordon because he didn't let her practice on them as he was afraid that she would talk yo other people and tell them what was happening.
Chapter 5: A Brave Voice Silenced
- Talks about how she tried to tell other people what happened
- She told Gordon beating her to Amir Bayyan from Kool and the Gang, he came to her hotel room with some guys to take her, she didn't go.
- She told to a TV personality who didn't believe her and told to Gordon what she said
- Tito confronted Gordon.
Chapter 6: The Man Behind the Monster
- Gordon's background was in brothels , born in one and owned several of them later on
- Talks about his business deals and her beliefs that he had ties to mobs (later says there was no evidence of such)
- FBI interviews her some time later about this mob ties and tell her that they had been smuggling diamonds and drugs using her to bypass airport security
Chapter 7: Torn from the Nest
- Talks about how Gordon distances her from her family
- Mentions Katherine's suspicions
- Gordon badmouths Katherine calling her "not saint", bad mouths Michael calling him "nothing".
- Latoya talks about Michael "closest thing to God", "unique", "had incredible gift", "perfect instincts" had "sensitivity and compassion".
- Insert story of buying Neverland
- 1987 Michael is able to get a call through her although Gordon limited their communication for her to come and be in TWYMMF video. Says she was supposed to be the lead girl in video but Katherine said it was inappropriate for her to be Michael's love interest again. Oh and apparently she was to be the lead girl in Thriller video and again it was vetoed by Katherine.
- Compares Dileo to Gordon and their controlling style of management. reportedly Dileo said " All I have to do is wind Michael up, point him in the direction I want him to go and he does it".
- 1988 Donald Trump wants to do shows with Michael in Atlantic city, asks for Gordon and Latoya to broker the deal. Gordon forced her to get Michael to commit, Michael would say he'd do it but phone line goes dead. Dileo calls and says he's not doing the shows. Dileo poisoned Michael against Gordon.
- Mentions Michael was also being isolated from family, says that Bill Bray was keeping people away and says she doesn't believe it was Michael's wish , she says Dileo was doing it.
-1992 Hannover, she goes to meet with Michael and Katherine. Gordon goes to convince Michael of Atlantic city deal. "Even though my brother weighted almost nothing, he danced with such energy"
- She can't bring herself telling Michael about abuse.
- Gordon makes her ask Michael about Atlantic city shows , Michael gives a vague answer about competing egos. Few weeks later Michael calls her and says Frank says that Gordon is tied to gangsters and even if one doesn't get paid they would kill him. ( odd: a few pages before she mentions Dileo's 89 firing , she doesn't know the reason but says that Michael said her he didn't trust Dileo the least bit )
- Then comes the phone call she mentioned in the beginning of the book that Michael said her to get away from Gordon or Gordon would kill her.
- Gordon convinces her that Katherine was trying to kill her.
Chapter 8: Against My Will
- Playboy photos hot
- Michael saw pictures while he was at Playboy mansion calls and says that they are great and Diana Ross also liked them
- Katherine and Jermaine was unhappy. Katherine said she wasn't her daughter anymore. Marlon and Jackie had middle of the road opinions.
- With the increased publicity Gordon arranges for her first book deal.
Chapter 9: In Name Only
- Gordon forcing her to marry him, she says the marriage was in name only as long as it lasted
Chapter 10: I Own You
- He told her when they got married she can get an annulment in 6 months. This chapter talks about she's asking for annulment and Gordon rejecting saying that he owns her.
- After the beating paparazzi gets the shot of her with bruised eyes.
- 1990 when Michael was in hospital with chest pains Gordon sent him black roses with Latoya's name.
Chapter 11: A Family Further Divided
- 1991 Her book gets published and she's performing in Paris. Gordon is having relationship with prostitutes.
- Jermaine and Farrakhan's son visits Latoya she doesn't tell them anything.
- Gordon breaks the deal with Moulin Rouge, declares her bankrupt so that they don't have to pay back to the cabaret.
- Gordon keeps the news of her grandmother dying.
Chapter 12: The Puppet Master at Work
- 1993 Gordon allows Latoya to watch TV to see the criminal investigation against Michael.
- Gordon says "They are taking him down now. I knew they would. I just didn't know when". Later on phone he says "You guys did it".
- Latoya asks to go on TV to protect Michael, Gordon says that he'll arrange it. They arrive in Israel, media waiting for her. Gordon gives he a piece of paper and says "read it".
- She says if she didn't read it she believed that Gordon's mob friends would kill Michael.
- She also mentions how Joe though them to do whatever they did with enthusiasm and energy and she didn't show any emotion because she was afraid that Gordon would hurt her.
- Gordon says to media there had been 2 kidnapping attempts on Latoya financed by Michael. She says Gordon tried to extort money from Michael & his handlers saying that he would say such thing if they didn't pay him.
- According to Latoya 1993 Bert Fields - Michael's lead attorney- brings Weitzman who brings in Dileo and Branca to work on the case and Gordon was secretly meeting them. Latoya says it was Branca's idea to settle in 1993. Latoya blames this to Branca's firm also representing Sony and that Sony was desperate to get their hands on Michael's catalog.
- She learns Michael's admittance of drug dependency and checking into rehab later. She says that Michael saw her press-conference with Elizabeth Taylor when he was in rehab.
Chapter 13: Living in Hell
- She says that she didn't know her family's attempts to reach to her and save her.
- She says Gordon damaged her reputation.
- Talks about Psychic Friends Network and Playboy video
- She starts to disobey Gordon. She does an interview without him knowing and keeps the money. She went to shopping without telling Gordon. She starts copying contact information from Gordon's Rolodex.
Chapter 14: The Beginning of the End
- 1996 Latoya is thinking about leaving Gordon. Tells about how she got a Bible, tells about how she saved the money but lost it. Gordon solicited Mike Tyson to have sex with her etc.
- She says at this time Gordon wanted her to do strip shows at a club he would call "The Jackson's Strip Club" in Florida. She refuses.
- Gordon tells her that she will do pornography (sex with 4 men for $15M), that's the straw.
- He says if she's not doing it he'll get Brandi - Jackie's daughter. Latoya says he was trying to go after her before, trying to bring her to Paris to be a model
- She asks for her passport and gets it after a fight. ( Note: I can't understand this request, she was in New York at the time)
Chapter 15: Risking It All
- She's trying to find the right time to escape
- May 3 1996 when Gordon is taking a shower she calls Randy. Randy gets Katherine and Joe in a conference call. Joe tells Randy to go to New york and bring Latoya home.
- Randy comes (with their cousin Tony) and Latoya leaves with only her bible, passport and DAT tape that had all of the music for her live show
Chapter 16: Free at Last, Free at Last
- NY to LA plane gets rerouted to Las Vegas. She talks about plane landing and making it out the airport.
- Insert memories of Jackson variety show
- Her house in Las Vegas later turns out to be in Gordon's name.
Chapter 17: Baby Steps
- Katherine tells her to come to Hayvenhurst but Latoya can't because she still believes that what Gordon told her that Katherine wants to kill her.
- Randy says they would take her to a doctor to file a report of abuse, get a restraining order and file for divorce.
- Gordon controlled all her money and assets etc. She only had $27,000
- Gordon calls her says that he loves her, he's sorry, he won't hit her again, asks her to come back and says he will give her all her money and accounts.
- She couldn't find a lawyer to take her divorce case because of Gordon's connections. Jermaine recommends her a "great attorney" he knows: Brian Oxman.
- After the divorce case starts she starts getting threatening calls from Gordon.
Chapter 18: Starting Over
- Her experiences makes her understand manipulation and abuse in Michael' life.
- She had no contact with people from outside world (except for the food delivery people) and only Gordon called her.
- Talks about how she had to do everything herself and adds their life in Gary and the changes in their life once Jackson 5 become famous.
- She left her condo a year and half later she left Gordon to attend a family get together after Jackie's wife died.
- She says she kept her distance from her family because she wanted to protect them from Gordon and she wanted to stand on her own.
- Insert positive opinions about Joe, his strength, skills and work ethic he taught them. she changed her opinion about Joe, says Michael changed his opinion later on too. Michael said he wished he had more of Joseph's strength in him.
- She says Joseph spanked them but it was the norm at the time they grew up.
- She believes if Michael was co-managed by Joseph he would still be alive.
Chapter 19: A Family Reunion and a Face-Off in Court
- Jackson family comes to support Latoya in her divorce case against Gordon. It was the first time she was seeing her family in years. Michael was doing History tour wasn't there and she hadn't yet seen him.
- Says that Gordon picked a judge he wanted , made her family leave the courtroom.
- Gordon lies about her saying that she was a sleaze (as she did Playboy), said she hid money, made her take drug and psychological tests.
- She gets divorced in 1998 by only getting the Las Vegas condo, Gordon gets everything else, and doesn't pay her the $350,000 he's ordered to pay.
Chapter 20: Rebuilding a Life
- Gordon leaves her with debt, unpaid taxes etc.
- Finds out that Gordon still arranger performances in her name and took the advances so she faced with lawsuits and more debts.
- This also caused her not to be able to book any more appearances.
- Talks about Oxman telling her to stay in bankruptcy and how she wasn't able to buy a house or a car.
Chapter 21: Learning to Trust Again
- Talks about how she no longer wanted to be in the music business but wanted to be like a manager etc. says she no longer wanted to work in America, her goal was to work in Paris and London.
- Gets another bad legal advice and her bankruptcy is extended another 7 years , so she wasn't able to get her royalties longer. She says she got back her royalties in April 2011.
- She meets Jeffre Phillips who is a friend of Jermaine. They form Ja-Tail (Just another timely adventure in life) Films in 1999.
- Jeffre worked with Michael when he did the marketing for Sony in 80s.
Chapter 22: Free the World
- 2001 World Trade Center attack
- She says Michael was supposed to attend a meeting at 9:00AM at the top of World Trade Center on September 11 but he didn't go because he was so tired. If he went he would have died in the attack.
- The family leaves with tour busses.
- Latoya writes a song "free the world", she records it, the reactions were positive.
- That's what made her return too music and start recording Starting Over.
- 2002 they try to get a record deal but hear stuff like "she has no talent", "she can't sing and dance" etc. They couldn't get a deal. They go to radios to play a song so that it would become popular and that they would get a record deal, radios refuse to play the songs.
- She says she had to put aside the album with the events about Michael surfaced.
Chapter 23: A Dirty Business
- She reconnected with Michael in 2002. (Note: That's quite some time, the latest conversation she mentioned with Michael was in 1992 - unless she omitted stuff).
- She lists through what happened in regards to Michael between the time she left Gordon (1996) and when they reconnected (2002).
- She talked about Michael with Katherine. She met Paris in 1998 (but not Michael).
- Talks about Michael's parenting. kids only watched educational TV programming, they weren't allowed to watch news accounts about Michael. Michael never told her why he limited their access to outside world. She assumes it was to give them normal life and made them know him as only their father and not superstar.
- She says she was worried if such secluded upbringing made them vulnerable.
- Michael also limited the music the kids listened. At that time Paris was only allowed to listen to "Butterflies".
- Latoya again says she had no direct contact with Michael at this time.
- Mentions Michael's troubles with Sony and catalog. Says Michael fired Branca in 1990 after Geffen told him Branca had to much control.
- 1995 Branca urges Michael to merge ATV with Sony. She says this partnership became problematic as Michael was an artist first and businessman second and he wasn't motivated for a quest for profit.
- Talks about Michael's masters and how they would not revert to Michael till 2009 and she says she doesn't know if Michael got them or Sony kept them. (Note: Estate got them back).
- Says Michael had no concept of money.
- Talks about Sony, Invincible, promotion issues. Says Sony purposely sabotaged the album so that it wouldn't sell so that he would be forced to sell his half of catalog.
- She watches Michael's press conference on TV about Sony and says that he wore a bulletproof vest at that conference. (Note: they haven't reconnected yet).
Chapter 24: Family Reunion
- 2002 Latoya is called to a family meeting, Michael was using prescription painkillers and family believed it was getting out of control.
- She says Michael wouldn't taken prescription drugs on his own and he was given it by a doctor after he fell off the stage and injured himself when touring with Jacksons. He forms a dependency but gets cleaned in 1993 by going to rehab.
- She says chronic injuries from lifetime performing and stress again turned him to painkillers and he again had dependency issues by 2002.
- Family decided to confront Michael and do an intervention. She says she hadn't seen Michael for a decade and this intervention would be the first time she would see him.
- Family goes to Neverland, security doesn't let them in, they jump the gate. Tito enters into the house through an open window and opens the doors for the rest.
- Michael sees them and acts like he didn't know that they were at the house. Latoya says she doesn't know if it was a simple miscommunication or someone wanted to keep them out.
- Michael send Prince and Paris with the nanny and then goes into Blanket's room (who was 3 months at the time) to attend to him. They have a meeting in Blanket's room.
- Michael refuses to see the doctors ( a physician and psychiatrist) and says there was nothing wrong with him. Latoya says he was fine, alert and relaxed, looked good physically and happy with his kids. After several hours he convinces them that he was good. Family plans to take turns staying with Michael at Neverland for next few weeks but they weren't able to follow their plan. She says it took Michael several years before he got the help he needed.
- In this meeting Michael also talks about the people in business. He reportedly says " Certain people in this business are no good. They take things from you, they rob you. don't ever trust them". "LaToya you can't trust them, they are no good, they don't really care about us" " They just want to get everything they can out of you and milk you and use you and toss you away at the ened of the day".
- Next time she saws Michael is news report about Berlin Balcony incident.
- Talks about how fans called "Let's see the new one" and Michael wanted to please them and he had a good grip.
Chapter 25: The Quiet Before the Storm
- 2003 Latoya does Larry King Live show.
- She receives quite an attention due to the show. She forms Ja-Tail Records and signs a distribution deal.
- 2003 Family day with Hawaiian theme and everyone dressed accordingly (except Michael and his kids). This is the first time since intervention in Neverland she saw Michael.
- April 2003 she runs into Michael shopping at Beverly Hills, she goes in to talk to Michael. They leave all together with Michael's children wearing Spiderman masks. She says the children understood the need for the masks and loved them, it was like playing dress-up everyday.
- Michael says he can't go and have dinner with them as he was going to studio, drops them by their car, Layoya gives Paris a pink rabbit as a present.
- June 2003 she would be presenting an award at BET awards. Producers ask her help to get Michael to give an award to James Brown. Then they get him on their own as apparently Michael didn't know Latoya was a presenter until she went into his dressing room.
- Backstage Michael getting ready. Michael called perfume "smell", they were together for 30 minutes, they took a picture together. Michael goes on stage. They spend another 30 minutes in the dressing room with James Brown, his wife etc.
- Michael takes Latoya into a closet and tells her that he misses her, he loves her and that he's glad that he got to see her.
Chapter 26: The Conspiracy is Revealed
- 2003 Joseph calls her to say that Neverland is being raided.
- No one in the family knew where Michael was. They later find out he was in Las Vegas and they went to his hotel.
- They find Michael all dressed up for video shot but visibly upset in a wrecked suite. Paris tells Katherine that Michael broke the lamp, threw the food and turned over the statue. Apparently when Michael got the call from Neverland security about the raid, he got very angry.
- Michael says to Latoya "I didn't do anything. I promise you. I'm being framed. All of this is a setup. you gotta believe me".
- Michael also mentions that he is even afraid to walk around his own yard because he was afraid that he would be killed. He says he knows who's behind the framing of him. Latoya asks who, Michel says " they want my catalog, they want my publishing, they'll do whatever it takes to get it. they are going to kill me. I hate my life. I don't even want the catalog anymore"
Chapter 27: Facing Down Allegations as a Family
- Little funny story about how Paris will wave to paparazzi to be friendly.
- Mirage asks Michael leave the hotel due to press disturbing other guests at the hotel.
- Michael has reservations about surrendering to the police.
- She released her single Just Wanna Dance under her nickname Toy tops the charts at 19.
- Michael's trial starts and she again thinks its not appropriate time to release the album.
Chapter 28: The Final Days of Neverland
- Michael mentions Latoya "when this trial is over. I'm never ever coming back to Neverland again. they invaded my privacy. They ruined my entire life. I hate this place. I can't stand it. I never want to see it again. Never. I'll never come back here".
- Says Michael was adamant when he made a decision.
- Describes Neverland, animals, trains. movie theater, children coming to visit. Dreamworks stealing Neverland logo.
- Says after the raid Michael stayed at one of the bungalows. Family stayed with him at Neverland during prelim and trial.
- Mentions "field trips" of Michael's kids around the property to the "beach" (a pool of water with white sand around it) and to library.
Chapter 29: The Trial of a Lifetime
- 2004 start of preliminary this is the first time Latoya had the chance to sit down and talk with Michael one on one for the first time in more than a decade.
- Michael says she doesn't have to say anything, he knows her heart and that he knew Gordon made her do those things. She says Michael had forgiven her long ago and didn't want to discuss it further.
- She says that she later realized that Michael also had manipulators and understood what she went through very well and that made him forgive her so easily.
- Says that Michael hid his fears from his children keeping upbeat and smiling around them.
- Jumping on the roof of SUV to please fans , being misunderstood.
- August 2004 family get together for Michael's birthday. First time Latoya saw Michael since pretrial in January. Michael calls Joe to sit next to him, Latoya says Joe was a special force of power for Michael and Michael felt Joe protected him.
- Again Latoya holds her album.
- January 2005 trial starts. Family returns to Neverland. She says dressing all white was her idea.
- Mentions Michael had made peace with Joe.
- Says Michael was in despair, he didn't want to eat or take care of himself. They pleaded with him to at least take vitamins. She says most of the time Michael stayed in his bungalow alone.
- Prince of Bahrain during trial says to Michael he can always stay there to rest and get away from everything.
- Gordon dies from cancer on 2005.
- Verdict day. Michael nervous, says that he's leaving US and never coming back.
- says Michael have been wearing bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before trial Michael reportedly said "If I get off, I'm going to be assassinated".
- says that Michael was a zombie after he heard the verdict, drained, distant. She says that the experience marked him and he believe that he would be assassinated that day.
- She says that the trial had made grave damage to him, a crack formed in his spirit, she says he lost his will to fight, and he was like he was lost.
- Michael leaves US as soon as he gets his passport back from court and lives like a vagabond for 1.5 years.
- Mention of Fox news, again Michael's catalog.
- Latoya says that during the time Michael was gone, he distanced himself from everyone in the family and no one spoke to him.
- says Michael didn't want to perform anymore, afraid that he would be assassinated on stage and wanted to produce and direct movies with Peter Jackson.
Chapter 30: A New Lease on Life
- Latoya says that whenever she saw footage of Michael on TV after the trial she tried to examine it to understand his health, mental stage, emotional well-being etc.
- She also says that she started to investigate the conspiracy Michael told her in Mirage (the day Neverland raided).
- She throws herself back to her career. reworking on her album, Armed and Famous show (most of the chapter is about that), Celebrity Big Brother
- She says that the skills she learned at that show as she looked for clues as to who killed Michael.
Chapter 31: The Final Days
- Mid 2006. Michael fires most of his staff including at Neverland and closes down the main house.
- Grace was acting his manager and this worried Latoya as the wrong person can have the power to destroy him in such vulnerable state.
- December 2006 James Brown dies, Michael comes to US.
- Latoya wasn't united with Michael but heard about him through Katherine.
- Jermaine introduced Michael to Tohme who later revealed to have a troubled past.
- says Tohme was like Gordon , isolated and controlled Michael. Says Tohme kept family away from Michael.
- enter Leonard Rowe. January 2009 a concert promoter offers $15M for one show (Allgood concert) flies to LA to talk to Michael.
- Latoya repeats Leonard Rowe's book Tohme doesn't meet with him for a while. Tohme says Michael cannot do it because he was doing negotiations for a $300M deal (AEG TII deal).
- says AEG was paying Tohme $100,000 monthly salary and he was therefore biased.
- claims Phillips got Michael to rehire Dileo.
- in a moment of clarity in March 2009, Michael asks Leonard Rowe to take over as his business manager.
- Reportedly Michael said he didn't know what he signed because their attorney drew up the contract, he agreed to 10 shows and not 50 shows.
- April 2009 , Michael meets with Leonard Rowe who brought Joe with him. Latoya says that Joe hadn't seen Michael for 3 years. Payment in dollars versus pounds and scalping of tickets is discussed.
- April 2009 Julien's Auctions of Michael's items. Michael didn't know it, Katherine told him about it. Michael says everything was being put in storage, Tohme says it was storage agreement.
- Mentions the Michael's confiding in June Gatlin (she heard it at Today show)
- Mid May meeting with Phillips. Katherine, Joe, Leonard Rowe and Michael present. Joe and Leonard stood up to Randy Phillips. Joe gets up starts shouting I will not let you steal from my son. Michael began laughing. She says it was because Michael was happy his father was there to protect him from vultures.
- She says Leonard told her that Michael was at times animated at the meeting but also seemed like he didn't care about details, he wasn't acting perfectionist and Leonard felt like Michael knew for one reason or another he would never perform those concerts.
- Leonard pushed out, replaced by Dileo.
- Leonard couldn't intervene about Michael's health and and in regards to his painkiller dependency.
- Latoya heard all these through Joe.
- Latoya spent time with Michael for the first time in May 14, 2009 since his 2005 trial. that's also the last time she sees him.
- Latoya says he was excruciatingly thing.
- She asks over and over if he was fine, Michael says he was fine and the rehearsals were going good.
Chapter 32: The Worst Day of My Life
- Joe calls her, tells her to get to Michael's house saying that a fan told him he was sick.
- She calls Jeffre , he says that Michael is doing it to get out of the shows. "Michael is known to have fake illness and injury.. "
- Joe calls again and says there's an ambulance, tells her to go to hospital instead.
- Latoya calls Trent , Katherine's assistant, they are on their way to the hospital. Katherine tells her Michael is dead.
- She arrives hospital, a nurse tells her Michael isn't dead.
- She goes to the room where Katherine is with Prince, Paris and Blanket on her lap. The kids are screaming and crying. Dileo is in the room. Trent tells her Michael is gone and Katherine again tells her that Michael is dead.
Chapter 33: Trying to Make Sense of the Tragedy
- She says she immediately thought "who killed Michael?" and not "how did he die?". in the last 3 chapters Latoya constantly goes back to 2003 when Michael said he would be murdered for his catalog.
- Children want to go see Michael.
- Paris screams Murray is the best multiple times and says she doesn't know what happened. She says she wants to die and be with her daddy.
- Paris says Michael was always cold, freezing. He would sit by the fireplace and fall asleep there. Paris says Michael always cried and they (the kids) watched to make sure everything was fine. Paris says Michael was freezing and needed a doctor and then turned the lights and they were in the dark. Latoya asks they turned the lights out? Paris says yes and they cut the phones off.
- Paris says Michael told her to be strong and said to her she would have to take care of Prince and Blanket if something happens to him. He told her that she would have to be the mother.
- Latoya asks when Michael said this. Paris says last night before Michael went to rehearsal She was arguing with Prince and Michael said her to stop fighting with her brother and "I'm not always going to be here and you are going to have to be the lady and watch over them".
- The children wants to see Michael, 2 nurses take them to the room Michael was says it would be therapeutic for them.
- She says Michael was skinny (skin and bones) but looked peaceful as if he was sleeping.
- Kids talked to their dad, left the room calm. Saying good-bye helped them.
- Latoya goes to find Dr. Murray. She couldn't learn anything from him. He gave her excuses.
- Kathy Hilton comes to the hospital with her sister. Latoya takes them to see Michael. Kathy Hilton tells her to collect everything she see that Michael written down.
Chapter 34: The Investigation Intensifies
- Michael Amir calls Latoya to say that Tohme fired all security and asks her to come to the house. Michael Amir vowed to not leave the house until someone from the family came.
- Police had been in the house all day. Jacksons wasn't allowed inside the house until detectives said it was okay.
- 11:30 Latoya, Jeffre, Randy and Ron Boyd (family friend police officer) arrive to Carolwood.
- 12:00 Katherine and Trent came. Later Janet came.
- Michael Amir lets them in.
- Latoya says the house was hot, asks Michael Amir he says Michael kept the heat on because he was freezing. Latoya brain thinking: is it because Michael was freezing or is it to give a different time of death?
- Michael Amir tells them what happened. Leads them into Murray's room (the room Michael died in). Michael Amir says he didn't saw anything suspicious last night.
- Latoya searches the room with her eyes as she's trained as a police officer. Outside the door what looked like Michael's last meal on top of a dresser (soup and crumbs from a sandwich), pajama top on the floor(paramedics cut it off when trying to save Michael, IV stand on the foot of bed, 3 oxygen tanks in the corner.
- She asks if there was cameras in the room. There wasn't. Remembers back to 2003 Mirage and Michael saying he would be killed for his catalog.
- Michael Amir then shows them Michael's actual bedroom. Room was a wreck, torn to pieces, clothes on the floor, dressers turned over etc. Latoya asks if it was always like this. Michael Amir says he doesn't know because Michael didn't allow anyone in that room. Latoya brain thinking : this is too messy to be police doing, who did this what they were looking for? suspects people were in there for cash and jewelry Michael kept.
- Remembers what Kathy Hilton said. Says that Michael was a compulsive note taker. so she finds post it notes in Michael's actual bedroom.
.
Thank you for your input @curls.
Oh, and I know we have something in common...we love Michael Jackson! And I love you! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
And thank you for your response, alsmom! Hugs back! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Let's "imagine" illuminati or the killers are so powerful that they can do whatever they want.
My murder theory could go like this:
they gave MJ warnings in the past - the Pepsi Accident, the broken stage in Germany (I don't remember where it was), the false accusations, the lack of promotion of Invincible.
Motif?
The catalogue, the message he conveyed to the world (love, peace, charity), the racial motif
How they did it:
They forced him to go on tour to make money off of him. They threatened him that they'll kill his kids. (That's the main point of my theory). He showed the kids to the world - so as to make it harder for them to kill them in secrecy. They forced him to do even more concerts. He didn't want to because he knew he was too weak. He said: if you want to kill my kids - kill me instead, but let them live well after my death. Take the catalogue, take my music, but let them live...
The family: the family is threatened, too. They know who did it, they know who they are - but cannot go to the police because they are threatened. That's why they say it's all gonna come out one day - because they believe it will. After many many years... They record songs, they write books to keep his legacy no matter what.
The photos of kids that appear in press are made by the killers to warn the family: "we know where his kids are, we observe them, we may kill them at anytime when you- the family will make a false move".
Is it possible? In my opinion - yes.
How was it, TS? was it ok?
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There is not one bone in my body that believes that the Jacksons were involved with MJ’s so-called what? What his death, murder, suicide? They are a very close family and they are all in it together. They are proud to be who they are, and in the fact that they have come so far from 2300 Jackson Street. And just why shouldn’t they be? Without Papa Joe - we wouldn't be here either. He's turned it all over to Michael as he is AWAKENED.
“The Jacksons Are Coming” and have arrived. And they are “We’re Almost There.” I posted on another board that I thought that MJ will come back with his brothers in Las Vegas. He may appear with them via hologram – or he may BAM with them, but they will be involved. They have always had his BACK & FRONT. He said out of his own mouth that his children, family and sisters and brothers are his best friends. And he is close to his extended family also. They are “Rocking Robin” write/right now as we speak. And to think that within the social media, folks are tweet – tweet-ing.
Tito made mention in the Jackson Family Dynasty series at one point after MJ’s supposedly passed, that it would take all of them (J5) to get their album done. Jermaine mentions a recurring dream he was having that put me in mind of the Bobby Ewing is Alive Story that they showed upon the new season the TV show – Dallas – as in the previous season and last show – he was killed. That show and This Is It are a part of the hoax. Maybe they’ll all wake up and realize it was a dream. Tito also mentioned until it takes all five of them that –“It’s all a dream.”
Besides numerous other clues to include MJ’s numerology (that I don’t think the so-called Illuminati is not smart enough to put all of this in place as they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer – and as MJ has them beat by a mile – as he has God’s Love and Protection – and Blessings and Gifts that no other human being was bestowed), below are some of the places and times where I’m pretty sure that I saw or heard MJ:
1. In backseat of car with Randy and Marlon on 6-27-09 (Tinted windows)
2. Hat Man at Memorial (I don’t think the female was MJ)
3. VHIs with Janet - 2010
4. BET Awards as a dancer - 2010
5. Dave-Dave on Larry King - 2009
6. Hat Man at Fake Funeral
7. Mr. Magoo in Audience Clapping like crazy for Prince & Paris (MJ is THE MASTER OF DISQUISE – by this point in time)
8. Tin/Metal/Robot Man in LA (He stood like MJ)
9. MJ at Planet Hollywood with Jermaine, his children and other family members
10. Possible hologram with Latoya in Russia
11. Old Man dancing in Behind the Mask
I think MJ sang one version of Janet’s song “Nothing” with her.
I think he was with O-bee, Jae-R and Chris Tucker when doing the song – A Toast.
I think he was with O-bee and Jae-R when doing the song Under Pressure.
I think that he was in the studio with O-bee and sang his parts live in – Wanna Be Starting Something. Those are MJ’s words he raps – as MJ is the one that wants his TEAM/FAMILY to “Step together and give them all we owe.”
I also think the words to the song O-bee and Gen did were MJ’s words – All Around the World.
I think the words that = GAME OVER were written by MJ on the wall that B. Howard showcased as a photo on his website (No one else needs a Victorious Entertainment Revenge – Payback like MJ) (Plus Jae-R raps about an office that will let success in and he mentioned the word Victory)
I think MJ helped B. Howard with his CD – Genesis, as he admitted that MJ “was hands on.”
I think MJ helped his nephew Austin with both of his CDs.
I think MJ spoke his part live in Jackie’s song – “We Know What’s Going On.”
I think MJ is helping his nephew Taj with the Code Z series – hence why it’s not ready yet. It will be ready in time for the circus thingy surrounding MJ.
I know that MJ put together his own Memorial as it was done by his standards alone – and he added the piece with his teaching Omer to dance as a young lad. (No one else would have thought to add it)
I think MJ helped Evan Ross with the first song on his new CD scheduled to come out and is still helping him. Evan admitted that MJ was the one guiding his career in Music – and that his Mom was hands on and often joined him in the studio) He is on video speaking of MJ in the present tense, and he said that MJ “is the most (then he caught himself and continues) one of the most important people in his life.
I think the will is fake – and I sure that it wasn’t entered into in 2002
I think it’s evident that when Diana Ross sent in a written statement for the Memorial proved to me that she wanted to state that “Michael was (is) a personal love of mine – and I thank his parents for sharing him with the world and with me.” (She should have just said – sharing him with the world) (Finally she didn’t feel guilty anymore because MJ’s parents accepted their commitment in 2006 or 2007) (She finally claimed her baby)
I knew she didn’t attend the Memorial and funeral, because she may not have approved of his plan. After all, in the credits of her video for her I Love You CD – the words – MAN – HAT – TAN show up after most were getting ready to click out of the video. EMI was not listed at the very end so why was Manhattan Records? It's a little reminiscent of the feature shown after the credits for MJ’s movie This Is It (Which was the title of Diana’s last official tour).
Why didn’t Oprah ask Diana any questions about MJ? Especially since she was next in line to be the children’s guardian if something (God forbid) happens to Mother Kate.
Diana is a great actress, but she is not that great. There was no way she would have been able to fake it and speak of MJ as if he was dead – as she knows that he is very much alive. No way could she have carried it off. In her song I Love You – she says – “Sometimes we disagree, but it doesn’t really matter.” (They may have disagreed about this hoax)
The group that covered “I Wanna Be Where You Are” (RIP to the young man that recently passed) said on TMZ live “it’s a movie. So did a bystander say "it's a movie" upon running into Doctor Murray as he was walking down the street one day when only TMZ had that film of Murray.
Jermaine stating that MJ was guided by his mother and that Michael speaks to his mother.
MJ mentions Doc Murray in the Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video.
MJ was listed in the IMDB as the Director of “The Conrad Murray Documentary.”
GAME OVER TS, because it’s the Genesis Adventure from a Master of Excellence and it’s - One Victorious Entertainment Revenge (It’s a Victory – MJ says so in the Jacksons’ movie + the brothers had a Victory tour).
They, the Jacksons (to include MJ – because over and beyond it all – he is a Jackson and he is proud of that fact and his name) He is proud of his ancestors on both sides and he is proud to be an African King. (He is so humble that many people don’t know that he is an African King of a mineral rich and gold mining Kingdom)
Michael Jackson had so much to live for – and basically, he is documenting all things that have happened in his life. He still has room for several books, two blockbuster movies (with one being the Greatest Love Story Never Told), and The Greatest Show on Earth Thriller (TII) style.
Ultimately his family is very much in on the hoax. The entire lot of them knows what he is pulling and some are directly involved. No one gives a funeral almost three months after “death”, and that goes even for the King of Pop.
MJ said out of his own mouth that he will never sell his catalogs. Sony is not an enemy of MJ’s. Are you kidding me? MJ most likely owns more than %50 of Sony ATV – PERIOD! He had a problem with Motolla only. He also vowed not to give up that part of his fortune. He is involved with all aspects of his BUSINESS dealings with Sony; hence why he sold them the rights to This Is It. He owned it outright – and Sony had to pay him – so in essence – he got paid twice. He almost went to Universal (he probably didn’t want to), so he negotiated a sweet deal with them that only he could get done. He also owns his Music Catalog outright now.
MJ is the HEAD of his family. I think he is AWAKENED and they all know it. I think the four years to get it right has nothing to do with anything but for us Human Beings to STUDY PEACE and become Aware and Alert to the fact that later this year there will be disclosure and that “we are not alone” in this Universe. People need to Awaken in order to gain full consciousness – so they can catch that ride on the Mothership that will usher in a new Golden Age on earth.
The above is part of what Donte is trying to convey in his messages. His role is to more or less show give enlightening messages and pictures of ETs and Humans holding hands as one, etc. It all ties in together as a new day is upon us – and people all over the world have awakened and are wakening to the new energies. The energies around us are getting stronger in their intensity. Things are happening that most of the world is unaware of. There needs to be an awakening in them so that they can ride the 9th Wave. There is no question in my mind that Michael has indeed shared all of this with his family, children and loved ones. They are awakened to the concept of awakening. His niece Brittney named her first son Phoenix last summer.
I would bet my life on the above as there are so many glorious thoughts and feelings having to do with knowing that Human Beings are finally going to Progress to a New Earth and Level of Consciousness. God gets all of the Praise.
And Yes, TS, according to my theory - you are "pure evil". <!-- s --><!-- s --> You are controlling the internet and checking how far we can go in investigating the truth, are we smart enough to figure out who killed Michael.
That's why Jermaine said that this increasing hoax talk helps noone...
<!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Just out of curiosity where is this Jack Gordon that LaToya speaks of so openly in her book? Seems to me she would be a little concerned for her own safety if she is putting him on front street like that. Wow. I’m stunned. <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ -->
Comments
The main message of the hoax is [fade:1g5vx41f]"It's all for L.O.V.E."[/fade:1g5vx41f] .... I highly doubt that this is what they would promote as a message. And Michael is the Messenger and has been since many years now .... certainly not the anti-christ that as said by WhiteNight I believe is a system and not a single person. So I will say that the message of the hoax doesn't fit with what the PTB or Illuminati or dark side would promote. If they really discovered Michael's plan they would have modified it. One big point against the murder theory I think = the message.
I also believe that they certainly can't have discovered this plan because this is God's Plan. I know it doesn't fit into this category of investigation but this is a strong belief.
If there was forensic evidence that this is a hoax then there would hardly be a hoax in the first place, so it's normal we don't have the BIG evidence proving it's a hoax without the shadow of a doubt. This has always been all the pieces of the puzzle put together that makes it to be a hoax (without the shadow of a doubt <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ).
Disclaimer: I don’t necessarily believe what I’m about to write! Just exploring other sides – trying to find the truth, you know.
TS, I understand you want us to explore every possibility, but you have made a huge jump here, an ASSumption even, (if I’m allowed to use that word!) by using the hypothetical scenario that the illuminati were responsible for MJ’s murder.
Backtracking and keeping things simple, to explore if MJ is dead/was killed why not go down the route of Dr Murray ‘killing’ him simply through an irresponsible use of medication? Why the jump to Illuminati? If he’s dead, is the ‘simple’ theory of manslaughter actually, really, that unbelievable? It seems to be suiting the majority of the world, after all. Or is that what they want us to believe? Just saying.
Because it was MJ, did it have to be made more complicated, more sinister? Could the family not accept a tragic ‘accidental’ death (much like we couldn’t), and so began the mysterious references to the involvement of ‘others’. Did the family instigate and perpetuate the doubts, the hoax?
You said: "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned?"
That would have MJ believing Murray was helping him with his hoax, whereas he was really about to kill him, at the planned time. So MJ would’ve never known he was being deceived, but he could at least have the satisfaction of looking down from his cloud up above and seeing that his meticulous planning was not going to waste, as his hoax was still being carried forward, to the letter, by his killers – it didn’t die with him.
Oh really? I can see no need or motive for a hoax, unless it’s MJ’s and he’s alive!
But if others were involved, Illuminati, TPTB (which is the term I prefer to use), whoever – there’s a couple of options. Either it’s their hoax, constructed and planned to be totally Michaelish, over many years, involving the control of MJ’s lyrics, speeches and interviews, in fact his whole life, or they must somehow have known of MJ’s hoax plans, carried out their murder and continued with MJ’s hoax, as I said above. In either case, it would appear that you, TS, have been put in place to further their cause. There’s a hoax, whatever's going on. What would be the motive for either of these options?
What is the motive for a hoax? A murder could’ve been far simpler, a ‘natural’ death. Why involve a doctor and a court case? But even if they did, with the power they have they would’ve surely got Murray acquitted or jailed months ago, case closed, job done.
So, I’m back to the money – it is the motive for many crimes, and it has been said many times that MJ is worth more dead than alive. But is the hoax itself, over and above the ‘death’, making anyone any money?
TPTB are about control, right? Did they misjudge MJ’s millions of supporters and fans, did they think they’d all jump on the hoax bandwagon and be controlled that way? Why then are they carrying on with what is little more than a handful of hoax believers? Why are you still here TS? Are you controlling me?
I realise I’ve not said much, if anything, here in support of the hoax for you to debunk with the murder theory! I’m with you here TS – I want to try and prove he’s dead, I want to try to prove it’s my imagination and fantasy, not because I want him dead (heaven forbid) but because I want the truth, whatever that may be, about Michael - and about myself.
'There is no hoax, the illuminati got him'. I’m really interested in hearing how you’re going to prove it.
Pure Love I love your post and I couldn't agree more. Why would the Illuminati allow us to know about them, about their plans and about their cult through this whole hoax unless there is someone else behind this whole thing. And yes, we discovered everything about the Illuminati after we found out about the hoax, i.e. after the 25th of June. Which murderer would murder someone and leave clues about where he comes from and what his beliefs are? Are the Illuminati guys that stupid????? There is no doubt that Michael is behind all this.... So TS..... I'm keeping the faith.... I believe that Michael is still alive and doing great.......... and I would like to thank him for exposing the Illuminati to us through this hoax......... Thank you Michael, God bless you
Peace
I don't think we share the same views on TS if you think he is 'playing games'. But that's ok, I don't expect us all to agree!
and where was the open casket???? I didn´t see his body . <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// -->
Defending the theory of murder is not so difficult, especially after a weekend that I saw again several documentaries and entevistas about Michael's death.
It's amazing how people say the same thing: Michael was hopelessly addicted to painkillers. One such documentary cites the appearance of Michael, very thin, with droopy eyes and a little strange behavior, like no energy.
I'm not saying that is what I believe, but I'll just look at what we're listening to two years of people close to Michael, including the family.
TS said that he followed Jermaine, [shadow=blue:1sq37gio]I'll follow what LaToya wrote in his book, because after all it was quite convincing and has said this since 2009 and Rowe and Joe Jackson too[/shadow:1sq37gio].
People surrounding Michael might actually be manipulating and controlling your life, making it hopelessly addicted.
Maybe Michael hired Murray to protect him somehow, maybe even Murray tried, but who can stand against the plots of a powerful mafia?
This theory of murder is not easy to debunk, but I'll try to follow, according to some very strange things that still make me be believer.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]This Is It[/glow:1sq37gio]
In the film, Michael is beautiful and looks great. We see him as a genius laboring, sending at all and giving the last word. But when it was recorded This Is It? Under what conditions was recorded? For that Michael agreed to record these images? To his children? Randy Phillips and Ortega said yes, he wanted the children to see him acting.
Was it? Or was it more a manipulation?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Michael so thin![/glow:1sq37gio]
He was visibly much thinner than normal. This weight loss may be part of the hoax, something like: he had to look thin and weak and so people do not believe in his addiction. He may have made a proper diet to lose weight as well as actors are to play a role in the movies. Cherill Lee said that his tests were fine and that he was healthy and one doctor said he had a body of an astronaut. The problem is we do not know if these tests exist.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Photo fake, and no body:[/glow:1sq37gio]
The family may have chosen not to show Michael death, one of them said they would not deliver a Michael as trophy to the press have always wanted to overthrow him. It may have been responsible for the family photo ecomendar this fake?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Death certificates and autopsy[/glow:1sq37gio]
There may be other oficial documents, that the public has no access. These documents may have the correct name of Michael, a doctor's signature on the death certificate and a certificate of autopsy true, after all, these documents are official and no one can access. Why would TMZ?
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Murray and the murder[/glow:1sq37gio]
All the family say he is a scapegoat. If there was a Mafia to kill Michael, they certainly watched every step of Murray and the fateful day, they may have enjoyed the brief absence of Murray to enter the room and inject the fatal dose of propofol.
[glow=red:1sq37gio]Investigations[/glow:1sq37gio]
Certainly there is a serious research being done. And nobody will have access to it until it is completely finished. Perhaps the FBI is involved and know who really killed Michael, but still could not catch them all. Meanwhile, Murray takes the blame of the crime to avoid the real bad guys flee. It can also be protected by the FBI because it runs the risk of being murdered as well. Perhaps for this reason that no one sees and does not know where he hides.
When the investigation comes to an end, Murray will be free and the real gangsters are convicted, do you remember that Murray said: "the truth will prevail."
I do not want none of this is true, I also know that just as the hoax theory, this theory of murder also has its flaws, but proposed a TS game, so I'm in.
I definitely wanna see this theory debunked.
But unfortunately I know that she is more convincing than the hoax, so 99% of people in the world believe in it. <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ -->
I'm thinking a little along the lines being expressed here on this topic, that the illuminati murdering Michael, in any way would eventually come down to being found out. Hell, we are here talking about it, so you know others are too. It would've been much easier for them to just have it look like a natural death, maybe too frail to have rehearsed and had a heart attack...bam done. Not involved the drugs to sleep story or Dr. M. Now, the longer this goes on the more chances of them being found out to be the culprit.
I still think this is Sony behind all this. That was Michael's bandwagon. Even with others in charge now of Sony, they were in it with Sneddon to but him away (read Lynton Guests book). Michael knows that and he also feels e lost a lot of income during those years. I think he's undoing all that damage. Michael was worried that he was going to be killed for that catalog. Who could gain by that? Who would be the THEY? Sony could exercise control of his portion if he died...which also tells me he's not dead. Now, I suppose Sony could majorally be involved with the illuminati, but, again, why draw it out when they could feed the media stories about Michael's health and not have all these years to slip up or have someone blap. Really, to me, it's not possible for them to have done this. People would talk for enough money..no secret is ever secret forever. [/font:hbxjtkd3]
Thank you for your input @curls. I assure you, I don't have the "I-won't-listen-to-anyone-who-puts-uncomfortable-thoughts-in-my-head" mindset. It's almost as if, suddenly, alot of ppl wants us to think or believe Michael is dead. If someone, ANYONE, can give me proof that Michael is dead I'm gonna believe he's alive. And believe you me, I have definately explored the posibility of death. Acually, I believed he was murdered in the beginning. Til Oct. 2009. The demoninator for me NOW is a hoax. I think a "murder for hire" conspiracy is viable. However, Michael just beat them to it. And just like the hoax, I'm gonna guess that this won't be debunked anytime soon. Like I stated in my previous post, I'm not 100% sure of either hoax or murder. Like Janet Jackson said..."If you tell me I'm wrong, then you'd better prove you're right".
I simply posted my thoughts and asked TS a couple of questions. I have a feeling I won't get anwered. At this point I have no idea what his/her intentions are. And is he/she waiting for 30 pages to decide what HIS/HER theory is? There's so many brilliant minds in this forum that posts. What better way to have an "idea" of a theory than to combine those brilliant minds into one? These are NOT insinuations...they're questions. I'm not blinded by false hopes..I just seek the truth. I've not compeltely found it yet. I'm just tired of barking up the wrong trees.
TS's post puts me in mind of when I was growing up. My mother used to tell me something and I would ask, "But why"? She would say, "Because I said so, that's why"! <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ -->
Oh, and I know we have something in common...we love Michael Jackson! And I love you! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
I for one do not think that Michael is dead but there is a quote that says "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"
Just thought I'd share.
Some believe the Illuminati was a group name started in Bavaria but long since disbanded, and who knows. TPTB is also a good name, but the thing is we need to call the major opponents or the protagonists in the story something. Perhaps TS is using the term Illuminati because it was what many were using and he is just sticking with that. Like I've said in other posts a while back, maybe in the end we'll find out the good ones are really evil and the evil ones are really good, or the etch-a-stetch will be shaken and everyone gets to start over picking roles and sides. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> God's chess game!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
And thank you for your response, alsmom! Hugs back! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Let's "imagine" illuminati or the killers are so powerful that they can do whatever they want.
My murder theory could go like this:
they gave MJ warnings in the past - the Pepsi Accident, the broken stage in Germany (I don't remember where it was), the false accusations, the lack of promotion of Invincible.
Motif?
The catalogue, the message he conveyed to the world (love, peace, charity), the racial motif
How they did it:
They forced him to go on tour to make money off of him. They threatened him that they'll kill his kids. (That's the main point of my theory). He showed the kids to the world - so as to make it harder for them to kill them in secrecy. They forced him to do even more concerts. He didn't want to because he knew he was too weak. He said: if you want to kill my kids - kill me instead, but let them live well after my death. Take the catalogue, take my music, but let them live...
The family: the family is threatened, too. They know who did it, they know who they are - but cannot go to the police because they are threatened. That's why they say it's all gonna come out one day - because they believe it will. After many many years... They record songs, they write books to keep his legacy no matter what.
The photos of kids that appear in press are made by the killers to warn the family: "we know where his kids are, we observe them, we may kill them at anytime when you- the family will make a false move".
Is it possible? In my opinion - yes.
How was it, TS? was it ok?
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“The Jacksons Are Coming” and have arrived. And they are “We’re Almost There.” I posted on another board that I thought that MJ will come back with his brothers in Las Vegas. He may appear with them via hologram – or he may BAM with them, but they will be involved. They have always had his BACK & FRONT. He said out of his own mouth that his children, family and sisters and brothers are his best friends. And he is close to his extended family also. They are “Rocking Robin” write/right now as we speak. And to think that within the social media, folks are tweet – tweet-ing.
Tito made mention in the Jackson Family Dynasty series at one point after MJ’s supposedly passed, that it would take all of them (J5) to get their album done. Jermaine mentions a recurring dream he was having that put me in mind of the Bobby Ewing is Alive Story that they showed upon the new season the TV show – Dallas – as in the previous season and last show – he was killed. That show and This Is It are a part of the hoax. Maybe they’ll all wake up and realize it was a dream. Tito also mentioned until it takes all five of them that –“It’s all a dream.”
Besides numerous other clues to include MJ’s numerology (that I don’t think the so-called Illuminati is not smart enough to put all of this in place as they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer – and as MJ has them beat by a mile – as he has God’s Love and Protection – and Blessings and Gifts that no other human being was bestowed), below are some of the places and times where I’m pretty sure that I saw or heard MJ:
1. In backseat of car with Randy and Marlon on 6-27-09 (Tinted windows)
2. Hat Man at Memorial (I don’t think the female was MJ)
3. VHIs with Janet - 2010
4. BET Awards as a dancer - 2010
5. Dave-Dave on Larry King - 2009
6. Hat Man at Fake Funeral
7. Mr. Magoo in Audience Clapping like crazy for Prince & Paris (MJ is THE MASTER OF DISQUISE – by this point in time)
8. Tin/Metal/Robot Man in LA (He stood like MJ)
9. MJ at Planet Hollywood with Jermaine, his children and other family members
10. Possible hologram with Latoya in Russia
11. Old Man dancing in Behind the Mask
I think MJ sang one version of Janet’s song “Nothing” with her.
I think he was with O-bee, Jae-R and Chris Tucker when doing the song – A Toast.
I think he was with O-bee and Jae-R when doing the song Under Pressure.
I think that he was in the studio with O-bee and sang his parts live in – Wanna Be Starting Something. Those are MJ’s words he raps – as MJ is the one that wants his TEAM/FAMILY to “Step together and give them all we owe.”
I also think the words to the song O-bee and Gen did were MJ’s words – All Around the World.
I think the words that = GAME OVER were written by MJ on the wall that B. Howard showcased as a photo on his website (No one else needs a Victorious Entertainment Revenge – Payback like MJ) (Plus Jae-R raps about an office that will let success in and he mentioned the word Victory)
I think MJ helped B. Howard with his CD – Genesis, as he admitted that MJ “was hands on.”
I think MJ helped his nephew Austin with both of his CDs.
I think MJ spoke his part live in Jackie’s song – “We Know What’s Going On.”
I think MJ is helping his nephew Taj with the Code Z series – hence why it’s not ready yet. It will be ready in time for the circus thingy surrounding MJ.
I know that MJ put together his own Memorial as it was done by his standards alone – and he added the piece with his teaching Omer to dance as a young lad. (No one else would have thought to add it)
I think MJ helped Evan Ross with the first song on his new CD scheduled to come out and is still helping him. Evan admitted that MJ was the one guiding his career in Music – and that his Mom was hands on and often joined him in the studio) He is on video speaking of MJ in the present tense, and he said that MJ “is the most (then he caught himself and continues) one of the most important people in his life.
I think the will is fake – and I sure that it wasn’t entered into in 2002
I think it’s evident that when Diana Ross sent in a written statement for the Memorial proved to me that she wanted to state that “Michael was (is) a personal love of mine – and I thank his parents for sharing him with the world and with me.” (She should have just said – sharing him with the world) (Finally she didn’t feel guilty anymore because MJ’s parents accepted their commitment in 2006 or 2007) (She finally claimed her baby)
I knew she didn’t attend the Memorial and funeral, because she may not have approved of his plan. After all, in the credits of her video for her I Love You CD – the words – MAN – HAT – TAN show up after most were getting ready to click out of the video. EMI was not listed at the very end so why was Manhattan Records? It's a little reminiscent of the feature shown after the credits for MJ’s movie This Is It (Which was the title of Diana’s last official tour).
Why didn’t Oprah ask Diana any questions about MJ? Especially since she was next in line to be the children’s guardian if something (God forbid) happens to Mother Kate.
Diana is a great actress, but she is not that great. There was no way she would have been able to fake it and speak of MJ as if he was dead – as she knows that he is very much alive. No way could she have carried it off. In her song I Love You – she says – “Sometimes we disagree, but it doesn’t really matter.” (They may have disagreed about this hoax)
The group that covered “I Wanna Be Where You Are” (RIP to the young man that recently passed) said on TMZ live “it’s a movie. So did a bystander say "it's a movie" upon running into Doctor Murray as he was walking down the street one day when only TMZ had that film of Murray.
Jermaine stating that MJ was guided by his mother and that Michael speaks to his mother.
MJ mentions Doc Murray in the Moonwalker Smooth Criminal video.
MJ was listed in the IMDB as the Director of “The Conrad Murray Documentary.”
GAME OVER TS, because it’s the Genesis Adventure from a Master of Excellence and it’s - One Victorious Entertainment Revenge (It’s a Victory – MJ says so in the Jacksons’ movie + the brothers had a Victory tour).
They, the Jacksons (to include MJ – because over and beyond it all – he is a Jackson and he is proud of that fact and his name) He is proud of his ancestors on both sides and he is proud to be an African King. (He is so humble that many people don’t know that he is an African King of a mineral rich and gold mining Kingdom)
Michael Jackson had so much to live for – and basically, he is documenting all things that have happened in his life. He still has room for several books, two blockbuster movies (with one being the Greatest Love Story Never Told), and The Greatest Show on Earth Thriller (TII) style.
Ultimately his family is very much in on the hoax. The entire lot of them knows what he is pulling and some are directly involved. No one gives a funeral almost three months after “death”, and that goes even for the King of Pop.
MJ said out of his own mouth that he will never sell his catalogs. Sony is not an enemy of MJ’s. Are you kidding me? MJ most likely owns more than %50 of Sony ATV – PERIOD! He had a problem with Motolla only. He also vowed not to give up that part of his fortune. He is involved with all aspects of his BUSINESS dealings with Sony; hence why he sold them the rights to This Is It. He owned it outright – and Sony had to pay him – so in essence – he got paid twice. He almost went to Universal (he probably didn’t want to), so he negotiated a sweet deal with them that only he could get done. He also owns his Music Catalog outright now.
MJ is the HEAD of his family. I think he is AWAKENED and they all know it. I think the four years to get it right has nothing to do with anything but for us Human Beings to STUDY PEACE and become Aware and Alert to the fact that later this year there will be disclosure and that “we are not alone” in this Universe. People need to Awaken in order to gain full consciousness – so they can catch that ride on the Mothership that will usher in a new Golden Age on earth.
The above is part of what Donte is trying to convey in his messages. His role is to more or less show give enlightening messages and pictures of ETs and Humans holding hands as one, etc. It all ties in together as a new day is upon us – and people all over the world have awakened and are wakening to the new energies. The energies around us are getting stronger in their intensity. Things are happening that most of the world is unaware of. There needs to be an awakening in them so that they can ride the 9th Wave. There is no question in my mind that Michael has indeed shared all of this with his family, children and loved ones. They are awakened to the concept of awakening. His niece Brittney named her first son Phoenix last summer.
I would bet my life on the above as there are so many glorious thoughts and feelings having to do with knowing that Human Beings are finally going to Progress to a New Earth and Level of Consciousness. God gets all of the Praise.
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That's why Jermaine said that this increasing hoax talk helps noone...
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