<br />I sorry guys but jesus dosent exist and the bible wasnt written by god, it was wrttien by men.<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Hy Iamambeliever ,I'm glad you wrote that,because now I can tell I also thought at this ,thank you .Mmmm his bodyguards even mentioned that Michael reads "Bible" every day ,intresting,I wonder what they meant with that ,because I always saw him with books for children and books about art,and history :? .Anyway here is what the bodyguards said:[/size]<br /><br />
[size=10pt]Q: I have read alot of places that Michael read his bible alot in the thriller era and I was wondering if you ever saw him reading the bible or pray?<br /><br />- He read the bible daily.<br /><br />Q: Could you share what MJ's religious beliefs was? Was he a Christian?<br /><br />- No comment on that. Oh believe me I know where he stood religiously...Im just not getting into that.[/size]
<br />I sorry guys but jesus dosent exist and the bible wasnt written by god, it was wrttien by men.<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Hy Iamambeliever ,I'm glad you wrote that,because now I can tell I also thought at this ,thank you .Mmmm his bodyguards even mentioned that Michael reads "Bible" every day ,intresting,I wonder what they meant with that ,because I always saw him with books for children and books about art,and history :? .Anyway here is what the bodyguards said:[/size]<br /><br />
[size=10pt]Q: I have read alot of places that Michael read his bible alot in the thriller era and I was wondering if you ever saw him reading the bible or pray?<br /><br />- He read the bible daily.<br /><br />Q: Could you share what MJ's religious beliefs was? Was he a Christian?<br /><br />- No comment on that. Oh believe me I know where he stood religiously...Im just not getting into that.[/size]
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<br /><br />Well, isn't that INTRIGUING??? Damn why couldn't he have answered THAT??? I'd sure love to know that answer. But, WHY he didn't is good too. I guess Michael made his faith KNOWN though from THAT answer!
@Souza:<br /><br />Wow.. Splendid post Souza! Although I might not agree with you about Jesus being the archangel Michael... Well, he can’t be both the Son of God, ONE with God AND the archangel Michael, can he? Let's have a look! <br /><br />Please refer to the following bible verses:<br /><br />Hebrews 1:5-9 (about Jesus and the angels, read Hebrews)<br />Isaiah 9:6<br />1 Timothy 3:16<br />Rom 10:9<br />John 1:1-4<br />John 5:17,18<br />Matthew 1:23 <br />Isaiah 43:10,11 <br />2 Peter 1:1<br />Colossians 1:16 <br />John 8:24 <br />John 8:58 <br />John 14:9-11 <br />Acts 4:12 <br />Acts 20:28 <br />Revelation 1:5,6<br />Revelation 5:8-9 <br />Titus 2:13 <br />Revelation 22:13-16<br /><br />Jesus (before he became human) was Christ, one with God (Philippians 2:5-7).<br />It is why they crucified Him, because Jesus made himself equal to God and that is blasphemy according the Jews. “Crucify him!” (John 10:30-33) Thank God Jesus gave his life (for us), he did not lose it: John 10:17-18<br /><br />When reading the bible it is very important to take the “<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis">exegesis</a>;” and “<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics">hermeneutics</a>;” into consideration.<br /><br />Two basic questions and one rule: <br /><br />- What did this passage of scripture mean to the people back then when it was first written?<br />- What does this mean to us today?<br /><br />- Always read and interpret the bible passages in its whole context.<br /><br />I would recommend everyone to read “<a href="http://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Read_the_Bible_for_All_Its_Worth.html?id=b054-T4A2osC">How to Read the Bible for All it’s Worth</a>” by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart. Really sound teachings and one of the best theological books I have ever read.<br /><br />About the creation, science, evolution and so on, I think this could be in your interest:<br /><br /> (just ignore the polish subtitles)<br /> /><br /><br />Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7<br /><br /> bearhug
@jono<;br /><br />I have looked up all of the scriptures you posted, and none of them indicate that Jesus can not be archangel Michael. Hebrews actually supports it:<br /><br />
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (Hebrews 1:1-9)
<br /><br />The Son is the EXPRESS IMAGE of the PERSON of the Father. Better than the angels. Nowhere in the Old Testament is "Christ" mentioned. So if he would have been called Christ before becoming human, then why is there no record of that in the OT?<br /><br />I think you mean that you do not believe in the trinity concept. That God is the Sun, the Father and the Holy Spirit; 3 different existences, yet one God. Is that what you mean? If that is the case, then why would the Son be begotten of the Father, and being made the express image of the PERSON of The Father? That indicates that they are two different persons. Michael means 'Who is like God' for a reason. Why would the archangel Michael have been named 'Who is like God' by God? Probably, because he is! His express image.<br /><br />There are more passages that show that the Son and the Father are two different persons:<br /><br />
"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (John 6:46)<br /><br />"No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."(John 1:18)<br /><br />"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." (1 John 4:12)
<br /><br /><br />But there are also passages that say that some DID see God:<br /><br />
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Genesis 32:30)<br /><br />"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle."(Exodus 33:11)<br /><br />"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." (Isaiah 6:1)<br /><br />"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5)<br />
<br /><br />So what is it? Have people seen God or haven't they? Both is true. No one has ever seen God, the Father, but many have seen God, the Son:<br /><br />
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
<br /><br />The Word (the Son) was with God in the beginning, and he also was God. So two, but yet one: God.<br /><br />
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:7-8)
<br /><br /><br />In the story of Abraham offering his son (Isaac), are also passages that support that Michael the Archangel is the divine existence of Jesus before coming human:<br /><br />
"And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
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"And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
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"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee."
<br /><br />THE angel of the Lord called out to Abraham, yet the angel is also God. So there are a lot of supporting scriptures that Michael the archangel (leader of the angels, different and better than the other, created angels) is God (the Son).
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br /><br />Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7<br /><br />
<br /><br />Very good point, the words of Jesus Christ, Son of God.<br /><br />Interesting topic. <br />I can not claim to have read the whole Bible, because the old testament is hard to go through. The new testament seems easier to comprehend. I can only say that I was left to make a choice to follow the christian teachings or not and it has been a long way. <br /><br />@RK and @forstAMoon, I like your points too, although I don not necessary agree 100 %. <br /><br />It is true that pride is the number one sin. Due to pride one of the arch angels was expelled from heaven. Greed is mentioned as sin many times too. From what I understand, those who follow the God commandments are brothers, sisters and mothers of Jesus. This is what he said, but I can not find the exact reference. <br /><br />It is my understanding that God can not dwell in a heart that has pride. I think that Michael Jackson was a very gifted man and may have been on a spiritual quest himself, just by reading some of his lyrics and poems. But, a messenger of God would be a too big statement. MJ wanted to run the biggest show on Earth, impress everyone and that is a trace of pride or lack of humility and God would only talk to humble people. If Michael believed that God was channeling music to him it may have actually been the other one doing that. In that case I would feel only compassion for a human that was deceived and deceived others. Now, you talk about the one eye symbol a lot, the all seeing eye. It can clearly be seen on the cover of a well known book "Moonwalker". <br /><br />I noticed that when most people talk about Christianity, they don't make a difference between various denominations. They are not in communion with one another, not to mention that they call one another 'heretics'. So, whatever has been done by a particular denomination is being mentioned as a wrongdoing of all Christians and that is not quite right. With a bit more research on the internet one can find interesting things about Christianity. May be research on resurrection would be a good starting point. <br />
God said no Angel:<br /><br /><br />"You are my son;"<br /><br /><br />"today I have given life".<br /><br /><br />He also said no Angel:<br /><br /><br />"I am your father"<br /><br /><br />"and he shall be my son."<br /><br /><br /> And when he sent his son to this world, he ordered:<br /><br /><br />"That all my Angels him worship".<br /><br /><br />In addition, when God speaks about los Angeles, says:<br /><br /><br /> "I convert my angels into the wind,"<br /><br /><br />"and my servants in flames of fire."<br /><br /><br /> But when he talks about his son says:<br /><br /><br />"You are God"<br /><br />
This post of yours, Souza, left me speechless. I always wondered who Michael really is. Lately I supposed he is Enoch, the prophet, who, along with Elijah, are supposed to come at the end of time to preach and warn us about the antichrist. But dates don't really fit and I have my doubts. Anyway, one of Enoch's sons is Metusala (Metusalem) who is the father of Lameh, who is the father of Noah! Enoch never actually died, he was 'taken' by God to heaven. In the end of time, when he is supposed to come, he would preach for three and a half years (?) ( it's said he'll be able to make jews recognise Jesus Christ as the Mesiah) and then be killed. But he'll ressurect in three and a half days?! - could this be three and a half years as in 2012-2013?! He was also reffered to as "the seventh from Adam". <br /><br />I sincerely doubt Michael is Jesus. I read on an orthodox related website that: "whenever you hear that Christ came down on Earth, you should know that's the antichrist". And I really believe that. <br /><br />But I'm sure Michael has a divine nature with a strong humanitarian message who is far from being all spread. I'm sure you all feel that. Believe me guys, I'm pretty obsessed by this idea but I can't really figure it out yet. <br /><br />Love u all!
Souza, you are truly amazing me. I have new found respect for you. You explain well, back it up and that's what finding God's truth is about. <br /><br />Through my 30 or so years of bible and religious studies, I have to say that you hit these scriptures head on and speak truthfully. You have pointed out what few people know or believe. Hopefully your research will lead others to look into what you see and see also. What you tell is truly what is most important. Beyond Michael or the hoax. (sorry, I love him too)<br /><br />I sincerely feel that Michael would NOT have wanted anyone to equate him to a messiah, or archangel and never tried to make people believe that. And as I studied the religion he was brought up in, know he never would have believed or felt that way.<br /><br />I love you all, mean to hurt no one, just speak my heart the same as you all.
<br /><br />Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” - John 14:6-7<br /><br />
<br /><br />Very good point, the words of Jesus Christ, Son of God.<br /><br />Interesting topic. <br />I can not claim to have read the whole Bible, because the old testament is hard to go through. The new testament seems easier to comprehend. I can only say that I was left to make a choice to follow the christian teachings or not and it has been a long way. <br /><br />@RK and @forstAMoon, I like your points too, although I don not necessary agree 100 %. <br /><br />It is true that pride is the number one sin. Due to pride one of the arch angels was expelled from heaven. Greed is mentioned as sin many times too. From what I understand, those who follow the God commandments are brothers, sisters and mothers of Jesus. This is what he said, but I can not find the exact reference. <br /><br />It is my understanding that God can not dwell in a heart that has pride. I think that Michael Jackson was a very gifted man and may have been on a spiritual quest himself, just by reading some of his lyrics and poems. But, a messenger of God would be a too big statement. MJ wanted to run the biggest show on Earth, impress everyone and that is a trace of pride or lack of humility and God would only talk to humble people. If Michael believed that God was channeling music to him it may have actually been the other one doing that. In that case I would feel only compassion for a human that was deceived and deceived others. Now, you talk about the one eye symbol a lot, the all seeing eye. It can clearly be seen on the cover of a well known book "Moonwalker". <br /><br />I noticed that when most people talk about Christianity, they don't make a difference between various denominations. They are not in communion with one another, not to mention that they call one another 'heretics'. So, whatever has been done by a particular denomination is being mentioned as a wrongdoing of all Christians and that is not quite right. With a bit more research on the internet one can find interesting things about Christianity. May be research on resurrection would be a good starting point.<br />
<br /><br />Can you support the statement that Satan was cast out of heaven just because of his pride? He wanted to sit on God's throne, like the Son sat on God's throne. He was jealous of the Son (archangel Michael), but was he cast out merely for that feeling of pride? If that were true, why was there a war in heaven?<br /><br />"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Revelation 12:7-10)<br /><br />If he would have been cast out of heaven just because of a feeling (pride), God could have just send him away. But the Bible says that there was a war, which means Satan rebelled against God, and probably even was violent.<br /><br />Pride is not the number one sin. In my opinion, it is not a sin at all. What is wrong with being proud? Proud of yourself for finally losing those extra pounds, or proud of your children when they come home with good grades? I see nothing wrong with that. Wanting something for yourself that is not yours is a sin, and that is exactly what Satan's sin was: he wanted the position of archangel Michael, he wanted to sit on God's throne. These are the 10 commandments, the last one was likely inspired by Satan:<br /><br />#1<br />And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.<br /><br />#2<br />Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.<br /><br /> #3<br />Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.<br /><br />#4<br />Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (BTW: Sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday...)<br /><br />#5<br />Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.<br /><br />#6<br />Thou shalt not kill.<br /><br />#7<br />Thou shalt not commit adultery.<br /><br />#8<br />Thou shalt not steal.<br /><br />#9<br />Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.<br /><br />#10<br />Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.<br /><br /><br />As for Michael (MJ): he is human, he is not God. He is not perfect, none of us is. But saying that Satan made him write his lyrics? Could you post which ones and why? And even though human and therefore a sinner (we all are), yet he definitely has a big role in the times to come. I am certain of that. The greatest show on earth is not planned so that he would make himself a god, it is planned to help God, besides being for entertainment. And after all, he is an entertainer too and there is nothing wrong with working. God says that you can work 6 days a week.<br /><br /><br />As for the Moonwalk book cover, did you see how it looks like when you open it? There has been a time Michael was on message (controlled), but this cover looks like a subtle f**k you to TBTB. "You think I'm with you? Think again." That's how I see it.<br /><br />
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. We are all prone to death in this life, it is unavoidable. But energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Just because Jesus died in the flesh doesn't mean he can't reincarnate as Michael or someone else. Does that mean Michael is Jesus? Maybe. In my opinion, we are all of the same source, so it's not like we are putting him on a pedestal. Like he said himself, "we are all one". I don't think we are meant to worship anyone. That's the problem I've come to have with religion. I think the sole purpose of all religions is to wake us up to our true nature and be the little piece of god that we are. But we've been conditioned to be unaware of our own power and inner knowing. Michael Jackson woke me up to ME when I was very young, and thus I have loved him ever since. We are all mirrors for one another, you know? Anyway. I don't think we will all agree on this topic 100%, but it is progress that we are able to speak openly about it and entertain ideas without necessarily accepting them. In fact, with the way the world is today, I think it's very important not to accept ANYTHING as truth. We must let our minds stay open at all times or we'll definitely miss something.<br />
<br /><br />AMEN. Agree with the portion of your post above, Jacilovesmichael, particularly the underlined text. This is an interesting thread (as are all the threads regarding spirituality, IMO). Here's my perspective, and it's way outside the box as well.<br /> <br /> <br /><br />It is human nature to look outside ourselves for answers to life's mysteries. And given that fear is part of the foundation of human consciousness, when we seek spiritual "answers," it stands to reason we are generally looking to pacify our fear of the unknown. A popular saying of MJ's that we quote on the forum is "just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel." How about expanding that phrase to say, "Just because it's told or taught to us doesn't make it truth"? Upon physical birth into this world, we have no knowledge or concept of the End of the World, saviors, second-comings, resurrections, the Ark of the Covenant, the Son of God, Jesus, the Archangel Michael, TPTB, the NWO, the Illuminati, the Bible, the Quran, the various world religions, and so on. Rather, awareness of and belief in these concepts is taught to us by our fellow human beings already present on the planet as it was created and passed down to them, generation to generation, age to age. For example, "we," humans on this forum, are in the process of creating written future history (e.g., potential literature, folklore, mythology, and "sacred texts" for others to perhaps study and quote as truth) to be passed down to our descendants just as it was passed down to us--this is how it happens. In short, we are schooled in the ways of the world upon birth on the planet. But WHO are we? It stands to reason that we are consciousness--individually (having experiences in our respective physical bodies from lifetime to lifetime) and collectively (as we extend our awareness outside of the box of the "physical reality" we've been taught). Certain people may come along and live their lives in such a way that it causes us to think outside of what we've been taught, but if, for example, Michael is divine--an angel, a savior, a saint--then so are we all. Consciousness, or Soul, Is--another part of me, another part of Michael, another part of the collective whole. Soul equals Soul. Therefore, how is it possible for you or me to be holier than thou if we are part of the same collective whole of Soul? Soul does not need a savior because Soul is not lost. Soul IS.<br /><br /><br />JMO.
If there is no one in charge, then our souls are lost. JMO
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
@ Souza <br />It is OT the book of Isaiah chapter 14. Most people just quote 14:12 to 14:15<br /><br />
<br /><br />12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!<br /><br />13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:<br />Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.<br /><br /><br />15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.<br /><br />
<br /><br />And Revelation that you quoted too, and second letter of St. Peter 2:4, and may be more.<br /><br />Most people see nothing wrong in pride, but there is another point of view. Nothing happens without God's will or permission. If you do well, "Glory to God" if not "Glory to God" and see if you have not done something wrong.<br /><br />Thank you for the Moonwalker cover. To me Michael Jackson is a human, not perfect as all other humans. But he had a good message. The second part of the biggest commandment, Mathew 22:35-40. This is something I respect.
<br />@ Souza <br />It is OT the book of Isaiah chapter 14. Most people just quote 14:12 to 14:15<br /><br />
<br /><br />12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!<br /><br />13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:<br />Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.<br /><br /><br />15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.<br /><br />
<br /><br />And Revelation that you quoted too, and second letter of St. Peter 2:4, and may be more.<br /><br />Most people see nothing wrong in pride, but there is another point of view. Nothing happens without God's will or permission. If you do well, "Glory to God" if not "Glory to God" and see if you have not done something wrong.<br /><br />Thank you for the Moonwalker cover. To me Michael Jackson is a human, not perfect as all other humans. But he had a good message. The second part of the biggest commandment, Mathew 22:35-40. This is something I respect.<br />
<br /><br />Yes, but what you say is that he wanted something that was not his (10th commandment). Does Michael want something that is not his? <br /><br />And again, why a war in heaven, if it was just that? Lucifer gathered angels around him that worshipped him and rebelled against God because he didn't get what he wanted. I don't think that you can compare that to Michael pulling of the 'Greatest show on Earth'.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
This thread feels so right to me. I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them. Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable. Michael the Archangel just fits. From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift. Nothing else explains it. From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him. The list goes on and on. This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial. None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson. His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience. Michael Jackson is a Godsend. Of thay my belief has never faltered.
Every perfect gift is from above. How can one pull off the greatest show without God's help? He can not claim the whole credit for it. Yet, Michael has always been more humble than other artists. Just not sure if that is enough. Christian teaching imply humility. all apostles have been humble from what they have written. It may be my view that the greater the gift and achievements the more humility is required. Not sure how much is required to pull off "The greatest show on Earth". <br /><br />Here is a link to a book about humility and ascetics <br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/John-Climacus-Classics-Western-Spirituality/dp/0809123304/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322443640&sr=1-1
I have to mention that I lack humility and just got the impression that only real ascetics can can get a message from God. The ones that lived in deserts in ancient times.
I never claimed Michael doesn't get help from God, quite the contrary. I said Michael has a big role in the times to come, which means that I believe he DOES get help from God, but I also believe he knows that himself. <br /><br />But you are actually saying that great and big things can never be done by man, because that would not be humble? I bet Michael thanked God for his given talents many times.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />I have to mention that I lack humility and just got the impression that only real ascetics can can get a message from God. The ones that lived in deserts in ancient times.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Hmmm, if that were true, it means that God would not be able to get messages out these days. That would be a little unconvenient and odd, don't you think? If we forget about the ancient times, and just look at ascetics living in the desert, then what would be the use of giving that person the message, knowing that it won't get further than that person? If he was able to get the message across in the nearby village, what do you think will happen? Probably nothing, because people would ridicule the "crazy hermit". These are different times. If God would want to get out His message out through a person, he better pick one that can handle a computer.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />This thread feels so right to me. I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them. Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable. Michael the Archangel just fits. From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift. Nothing else explains it. From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him. The list goes on and on. This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial. None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson. His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience. Michael Jackson is a Godsend. Of thay my belief has never faltered.<br />
<br />Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael. You think Michael used to be Jesus? You think that Michael Jackson is dead then? I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven. I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT.
<br />I never claimed Michael doesn't get help from God, quite the contrary. I said Michael has a big role in the times to come, which means that I believe he DOES get help from God, but I also believe he knows that himself. <br /><br />But you are actually saying that great and big things can never be done by man, because that would not be humble? I bet Michael thanked God for his given talents many times. <br />
<br />I don't call hermits "crazy". Their choice.<br />
<br /><br />Me neither, but most people do. That's my point.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I can't believe that I somehow missed this thread when you started it Souza! Silly me, anyway,I have just skimmed over the posts, but need to take some time to read it thoroughly, before I reply, but I Have my grandaughter here right now, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I am glad that this thread exists, because I have so much to share and discuss with you all, until then...Blessings LOVE and LIGHT to all!!!<br /><br />I LOVE my beautiful MJ Family!!<br /> bearhug
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."<br /><br />12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!<br /><br />13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:<br />Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.<br /><br /><br />15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.<br /><br />
<br /><br />And Revelation that you quoted too, and second letter of St. Peter 2:4, and may be more.<br /><br />Most people see nothing wrong in pride, but there is another point of view. Nothing happens without God's will or permission. If you do well, "Glory to God" if not "Glory to God" and see if you have not done something wrong.<br /><br />Thank you for the Moonwalker cover. To me Michael Jackson is a human, not perfect as all other humans. But he had a good message. The second part of the biggest commandment, Mathew 22:35-40. This is something I respect.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."