@Souza<;br /><br />From wiki: “Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one". It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or<br />Mashiach.”<br /><br />You are right about the name “Christ” not being used in the Old Testament. <br />Christ or “Māšîaḥ” it is the name most commonly used when referring to the prophesies about the Prophet, the Ruler, the Lion, the Savior, the Lamb, the High Priest, the Prince of Peace to-come in the Old Testament: Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 3:14-15, Micah 5:1-2, Daniel 9:24-26, Isaiah 53:1-3, Psalm 110 etc (http://www.amazingchange.org/PropheciesConcerningJesus.htm; http://www.amazingchange.org/titles.htm)<br /><br />My point is that He was already one with God before He came down to us and became Jesus, God in human form.<br /><br />There is a clear distinction between the angels (the Hebrew and Greek words originally mean messenger) and God throughout the bible, Jesus could not have been both God and an angel. Either he was merely an angel or he was God himself.<br /><br />I believe myself to be a “born again Christian” filled with the Holy Spirit (John 14: 26-27, Acts 2, John 16:13 (yes, speaking in tongues is a real thing)) so of course I believe in the trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit)! They are all one, even though they are separate entities. Pretty mind blowing and hard to grasp but I don’t think that He would be worthy of being called God if we all could comprehend him, would he? <br /><br />My point is, throughout the whole bible we can read that there is a clear difference between the Godhead and the angels, God (that includes Jesus/Christ/Messiah) actually created the angels (Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 148:2,5; Colossians 1:16-17). Therefore God cannot be an angel. <br /><br />I don’t understand how you can say that Hebrews supports Jesus being an angel when it clearly makes a distinction between the angels and God (the Son included).<br /><br />Hebrews 1:1-14<br /><br />God’s Final Word: His Son (translators note)<br /><br />In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. <br /><br />The Son Superior to Angels (translators note)<br /><br />5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, <br />“You are my Son; <br /><br />today I have become your Father”[a]? <br /><br />Or again, <br /><br />“I will be his Father, <br />and he will be my Son”? <br /><br />And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, <br /><br />“Let all God’s angels worship him.”<br /><br />In speaking of the angels he says, <br /><br />“He makes his angels spirits, <br />and his servants flames of fire.”<br /><br />But about the Son he says, <br /><br />“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; <br />a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. <br />You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; <br />therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions <br />by anointing you with the oil of joy.”<br /><br />He also says, <br /><br />“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, <br />and the heavens are the work of your hands. <br />They will perish, but you remain; <br />they will all wear out like a garment. <br />You will roll them up like a robe; <br />like a garment they will be changed. <br />But you remain the same, <br />and your years will never end.”<br /><br />To which of the angels did God ever say, <br /><br />“Sit at my right hand <br />until I make your enemies <br />a footstool for your feet”? <br /><br />Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? <br /><br />Do you view this passage of scripture as the archangel Michael being “promoted” to a higher place then the rest of the angels? But weren’t he (God) the same from the beginning? Haven’t the trinity always been intact? I think that it is a definition of God, He has always been.<br /><br />I believe that this whole passage (probably written by the apostle Paul) was written to make a distinction between the angles and the Son (this I have learned through 3 years of theological studies and personal dedication to reading the scripture). And when talking about doctrines like this it is important to consider the Whole bible, not only certain passages. What is the substance when considering the bible as a whole? When doing this I think it is pretty clear that there is a clear distinction between the angles and God.<br /><br />I know the Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God (which is essential for the whole sacrifice and salvation to all that believe in Him (Rom 10:9) -message). But you seem to believe that He is both God and arch angel Michael, that they are the same? This is new to me! <br /><br />Important note: I do believe that Jesus/Messiah/Christ is referred to as “the angel of the LORD” in some passages of the scripture. This is not Michael; rather it is one part of the trinity (the Son). In these passages it is pretty clear that “the angel of the LORD” and God is one.<br /><br />Bottom-line though; the important question is not if Jesus is/was the archangel Michael, the important part is if he is God and Savior of mankind? It is the most essential question (John 3:16, Romans 10:9).<br /><br />I don’t know what you believe Souza, who Jesus is to you? To me he is my personal Savior and friend. He is my Lord, my God. I believe that he wants to guide everyone through his Holy Spirit (the helper) into the whole truth:<br /><br />”But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” - John 16:13<br /><br />Keep reading the scriptures and I am sure you will find your answers. And don’t forget… Follow the Prince of Peace! - Isaiah 9:6.
just want to say this is now my second favourite thread on the forum. i have been keeping up with it for a while now and though i dont have something to add at this stage - (definitely have an opinion and a belief, but not prepared to put it out there just yet until i am more certain abt how mj fits into it) nevertheless, just wanted to say that i am well impressed with the bible knowledge and understanding that several members have made comment on in this thread. as someone who respects the bible and studies it fluently, i find it quite respectable and encouraging to see others also looking into the scriptures and aiming to understand and apply them. and really that is they key... not just understanding. applying them in life.<br /><br />if only every human looked to the bible for guidance and applied it, the world would be a perfect place...<br />
@jono<;br /><br />I have to go, but I will ask this for now: where does it say Michael the Archangel was created? Angels yes, but the archangel? And why do you assume that the archangel is an angel too? Is the leader of a group of children also a kid?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />@jono<;br /><br />I have to go, but I will ask this for now: where does it say Michael the Archangel was created? Angels yes, but the archangel? And why do you assume that the archangel is an angel too? Is the leader of a group of children also a kid?<br />
<br /><br />To answerer your question: No, but they are all Human <br /><br />Just like the archangels are angles.<br /><br />Arch, is a rank.<br /><br />"archo"̄ or "ar'-kho" (from Greek): A primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power): - reign (rule) over.<br /><br />Does a human with a high rank make him super-human or god? Of course not...<br /><br />In fact, the word "archangel" is only used two times in the bible and that is in the context of command and authority (Jude 1:9 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16).<br /><br />Jude 1:9 is an interesting passage as it is pretty clear that the archangel Michael does not have the same authority as the Lord: <br /><br />“But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” ” <br /><br />And when reading 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Jude 1:9 I think that it becomes pretty clear that an archangel is not the same as the Lord and Jesus Christ. They seem to be more of a servant with a high rank. Just like an army here on earth has many different ranks, I believe that the army of God (his angels) does have different ranks, archangel being the highest.<br /><br />This is my thinking and how I interpret this, not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong.<br /><br /> bearhug
there are a few things that i'd like to comment on in this thread in future, but just want to post this one quickly. agree that archangel is a rank. but believe only one angel (jesus pre birth and post death) had this rank and title. (EDIT)<br /><br />God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) this term means “chief angel.” Michael is called 'the' archangel. that suggests that there is only one such angel. the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. JC is linked with the office of archangel. relating to JC, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states “the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. this scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.<br /><br />in my opinion AND as per bible research - this archangel is not michael jackson. to anyone who believes that he is, then please understand that i make this comment with all due resepect for your belief and politely disagree.
@jono<;br /><br />I think there is way more evidence in the Bible of Jesus being THE archangel Michael, PLUS being part of the Godhead (which means Jesus doesn't have to be a literal angel, but the leader thereof). How else would you interpret the scriptures I posted? And I think Australian MJ BeLIEver had a pretty strong one as well.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />This thread feels so right to me. I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them. Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable. Michael the Archangel just fits. From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift. Nothing else explains it. From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him. The list goes on and on. This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial. None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson. His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience. Michael Jackson is a Godsend. Of thay my belief has never faltered.<br />
<br />Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael. You think Michael used to be Jesus? You think that Michael Jackson is dead then? I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven. I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT. <br />
<br /><br />Not “the Archangel” of biblical times, but the Archangel for our times. And hell no, I do not think he is or ever was Jesus. If that was implied, please pardon me.
<br />This thread feels so right to me. I have always believed that there are real angels amongst us and that Michael Jackson is truly one of them. Just from his own history the parallels are undeniable. Michael the Archangel just fits. From all that has been posted here and all that Michael Jackson has shown us during his lifetime, there is no question in my mind that he was given to us as a gift. Nothing else explains it. From his meager beginnings, to his strict upbringing, to his unyielding faith and belief in God, in his love for all living things, to this teachings that love starts and will end with the children, to his ability to do the impossible creatively, to his humbleness and lack of need to retaliate against those who trespass against him, to just about everything about him. The list goes on and on. This thread sends chills through me because there is something about Michael Jackson that is celestial. None before and I doubt any after will ever come as close to what I perceive an angel to be as Michael Jackson. His love for people and his empathy for all of God’s creatures was obviusly present at birth and only grew with world experience. Michael Jackson is a Godsend. Of thay my belief has never faltered.<br />
<br />Wow, I don't believe that Michael Jackson is THE heavenly archangel Michael. You think Michael used to be Jesus? You think that Michael Jackson is dead then? I don't think the consensus here is 100% saying Michael Jackson is the archangel in heaven. I for one believe with all my life that he is NOT. <br />
<br /><br />Not “the Archangel” of biblical times, but the Archangel for our times. And hell no, I do not think he is or ever was Jesus. If that was implied, please pardon me.<br />
<br /><br />i dont mean to appear argumentative, however i am confused by your post. if the bible indicates that the archangel is jesus and that there is only one archangel, how can mj also be an archangel. there is scriptual reasoning (see my post above) to indicate that the title of the archangel only belongs to one individual that being JC. again, the term "THE archangel" indicates that its a title given only to ONE individual. <br /><br />naturally i dont expect you to find me a scripture that says "MJ is also an archangel" however, i politely ask, are you able to make reference to a scripture that indicates that a) there will be or is a second archangel and / or b) that there will be an archangel of our day.<br /><br />if not (this is to to any who believe MJ is present day archangel) what are these statements / beliefs based on? (scriptually)<br /><br />MJ is a leader in change, humanitarianism, praising and singing about and to god, etc - no doubt abt that. but to call him the modern day archangel, (which is fine if you believe that) to make that statement legitimate, there MUST be bible evidence that there is or will be such an individual. otherwise anyone can make up anything abt what is going to happen and who is who and call it a belief - if it doesnt need to be substantiated by scripture.<br /><br />EDIT: so my Q is, "what is this belief based on?" is it based on all the marvellous work that MJ has done, his charisma, his spirit, his love for god, his following, etc (which to be fair, is remarkably amazing no other modern day icon can compete!) or is it based on solid scriptual evidence?
@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS
<br />@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS<br />
<br /><br />I think you need to educate yourself, peace
<br />@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS<br />
<br /><br />I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense. any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao <br />
<br />@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS<br />
<br /><br />I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense. any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao. Anyways i really dont care because religious is a myth, and its based on fear, guilt and shame.<br />
@iamamjbeliever, In all due respect, I agree with Australian MJ BeLIEver regarding your "manner" of speaking:<br /> respect/ <br /><br />
on 1322523378:
<br />@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS<br />
<br /><br />However, I do like the informative video that you posted regarding the Ancient Egyptians and the history of Christianity and the Christ story:<br /><br />
<br />@iamamjbeliever - please be careful how you articulate your feelings on religion. what you refered to as BS might be the very thing that some forum members uphold as sacred.<br /><br />within this thread are several members who either follow study the bible and view it as sacred / believe MJ is affiliated with archangel and feel that belief is sacred / or are religiously inclined and believe that religion is sacred. please be careful not to cause offence.<br /><br />and please educate yourself before calling it BS<br />
<br /><br />I think you need to educate yourself, you guys call him Michael Jesus, and archangel. What the hell? Michael is Michael, he's not god, he's not jesus. some of you fans get on my nerve with your gullible nonsense. any pastor would laugh at you if you said mj is god, lmao. Anyways i really dont care because religious is a myth, and its based on fear, guilt and shame.<br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br />[size=11pt]<br />@iamamjbeliever - i dont think that you have read this thread properly before you made comment. I FOR ONE MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT BELIEVE that mj is archangel and never will be. i also do not believe he is JC, ever was or ever will be. so please familiarise yourself with what i said and stated that i believe before you judge me not only ignorantly but incorrectly. i look forward to your apology as you are wrong that i believe mj is archangel / jesus. i am not being smart. just saying you are mistaken, i do not believe or say what you claimed that i did.<br /><br />regarding educating myself. i have been educating myself in scripture / religion for 25 years and will continue to do so. regarding a pastor, i care not for their opinion. i verify things by studying the scriptures not by what a man tells me. (much like MJDH - look at evidence not what forum members tell me)<br /><br />about your statement that religion is based on lies / shame / guilt. i agree with you to an extent. yes, MANY religions are based or infested with this 'ethos' however the 'bible' is not religion. the bible is holy scripture inspired by god. not corrupt. religion made by man is what could be called corrupt and many religions have been known to be entrenched with lies, guilt and shame throughout history, yes you are correct.<br /><br />your term of "religion is a myth" doesnt make sense to me. (with no disprespect, unsure if i am not undertanding you as i am not sure english is your first language and that your sentance is written the way you intend to project your point) but religion is not a myth as most of the world subscribes to a religion of some sort. religion is very much real and the reason for much conflict across the world. i think what you mean (please correct me if i am wrong) that certain "beliefs" are a myth or untrue. no doubt that there are things that some religious people may believe in or practice that are untrue, unfounded and are either church doctrine, teachings passed down thru culture / church / religion opposed to being from the bible.<br /><br />regarding the bible and god the creator, that is what i follow. him and his Word - not what you describe as mythical religion & beliefs.<br /><br />again just to clarify, this post to you is sent with respect for your beliefs / point of view. my point to you was just to mention you do need to be careful when sharing your opinion and describing religion as BS - as there are people in this thread quite passionate about their belief and religion.<br /><br />there are people here that i most certainly disagree with. i dont agree with catholisism, i dont agree with islam, i dont agree with hinduism, much like i dont agree that mj is the archangel or mordern day jesus. however out of respect for fellow members would never call their beliefs BS but instead will engage in appropriate, respectful debate / conversation.<br /><br />that was my point.<br /><br />peace to you and well wishes.[/size]
In that Egyptian video, at 1:34 there is an icon that is supposed to be Mary and Emmanuil from 4 b.c. The top right corner of this icon says Jesus Christ in Greek. It can not be from 4 bc. Amen means "so be it" or "to be God's will" and the ancient Egyption deity is Amon Ra, not Amen. Who knows what else is incorrect in that video. Egyptian civilization is the only one that has always been on decline, no record on development from cave age, very strange. May be they borrowed stuff from civilizations before them. And the Exodus from the bible says a lot too. <br /><br />Western world knows little about some resurrection details and probably there is a reason for it. Roman catholic popes deny some events related to it, yet every year they go there. Don't know how to embed videos. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=7qPZW8pkBEs<br />
I don't belong to one particular religion either but I believe in a higher power or creator, and in angels and in Jesus. I go to different churches. We can learn a lot from the Bible even if you need help interpreting it. None of us really know the truth about everything. We are only humans who can't possibly know the truth about everything. I have watched several videos about the Egyptians. There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting. On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!! They had very advanced technology. They must have had advanced technologies and knowledge in order to build and do the amazing pyramids, sphinx and everything else. The pyramids are way more complicated than you think. I can't tell it all here. Research and watch. It's amazing. <br /><br />It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians. Maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe it is not all a myth. Maybe some of it is. We don't know. They Maybe some of history repeats itself ? They used a lot of science, and sacred geometry that we still don't understand or want to accept today. The ancient civilizations used this. Information was hidden from us. The vatican go there every year. Do they have information that they are keeping for themselves ? Secret information. The secret societies know and have information they are keeping from us. Religions and governments manipulate laws and information in order to manipulate and control the people. Do you know why there is a King James version of the Bible ? That version was manipulated by King James when he was ruling.<br /><br />Anyway, it seems that there is spiritual side to this. It seems that Michael has been on a mission for a very long time, maybe his whole life. If you look back there are so many clues including art,poems,speeches, clothing, jewelry,music,lyrics. They are all connected. It seems like an extremely huge, important message. This death hoax is a huge,difficult task. Also, it makes you wonder when family members say things like archangel and things like he is such an angel. They are not people who are just playing around. This is extremely well planned and it took years !!!!!<br />I am thinking he is some sort of prophet or angel and I have been reading and thinking about this all year. I didn't just come up with it. After reading, you see that there is a lot that we don't know a lot about. Information is censored and hidden from us. The internet is spreading more information. <br /><br />I am thinking and hoping that Michael is an angel but even if he's not he's still an super talented genius with a heart of gold. <br /><br />Love<br /><br />
<br />I have watched several videos about the Egyptians. There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting. On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!! [. . .] It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians. Maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe it is not all a myth. Maybe some of it is. We don't know. They Maybe some of history repeats itself ? <br />
<br /><br />Hi, Dontwalkaway. Agree with the portion of your post quoted above. The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else. The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post). The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.<br /><br /><br /><br />I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.
<br />I have watched several videos about the Egyptians. There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting. On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!! [. . .] It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians. Maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe it is not all a myth. Maybe some of it is. We don't know. They Maybe some of history repeats itself ? <br />
<br /><br />Hi, Dontwalkaway. Agree with the portion of your post quoted above. The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else. The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post). The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.<br /><br /><br /><br />I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.<br />
<br /><br />That part of Zeitgeist can be thrown right into the trashbin:<br /><br /><br /><br />It's based on nothing. <br /><br />There is one person in this thread that really needs to learn what respect is, or else he/she can find another hoax forum.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />I have watched several videos about the Egyptians. There is a lot more information than just the one above, although that one was interesting. On the other videos I saw, the egyptians were doing a lot more than just worshipping the sun !!!!! [. . .] It does seem that christians, muslims, and others copied concepts and events from the Egyptians. Maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe it is not all a myth. Maybe some of it is. We don't know. They Maybe some of history repeats itself ? <br />
<br /><br />Hi, Dontwalkaway. Agree with the portion of your post quoted above. The information about the Egyptians is interesting if nothing else. The following is the first of the three videos posted by MJonmind (as mentioned in my earlier post). The most pertinent portion begins at 03:15; discussion includes Horus (3000 BC), Attis (1200 BC), Krishna (900 BC), Dionysus (500 BC), Mithra (1200 BC), and finally, the biblical Jesus.<br /><br /><br /><br />I am interested in knowing what others think of this as well.<br />
<br /><br />That part of Zeitgeist can be thrown right into the trashbin:<br /><br /><br /><br />It's based on nothing. <br /><br />There is one person in this thread that really needs to learn what respect is, or else he/she can find another hoax forum.<br />
<br /><br />Hi, Souza. Thanks for posting the Zeitgeist video. I watched the first few minutes of it and will definitely watch the rest of it when I have time, just as I watched the Greatest Story Ever Told videos.<br /><br />(Just FYI, regarding my personal beliefs, I am one who enjoys [perhaps too much] learning about and discussing the tenets of the various world religions in a comparative sense; however, I am not a practitioner of any of them. I do believe in God, though. Grew up Baptist, in fact; as a kid, I went to parochial school, always had my head stuck in a Bible, and at one time was even on my way to divinity school! In general, I believe that all paths lead to God according to our respective spiritual needs at any given point [albeit usually as a result of culture and upbringing], be the path Christianity and the Bible, Islam and the Quran, Hinduism and the Bhagavad Gita, or what have you.)<br /><br />Regarding "sacred texts" like the Bible, one interesting thing of note, IMO anyway (and this is not meant to offend; rather, perhaps it will bring up yet another interesting conversation), is that oftentimes in lay discussions like ours, the texts are spoken of as being predominately factual and historical and, in turn, used to confirm history/truth as opposed to history (e.g., archeology, linguistics, astronomy, literature, and so on) being used to confirm the historicity of the text(s). What do you think?<br /><br /><br /><br />(Have to go to work now but will check back later.)
<br />@jono<;br /><br />I think there is way more evidence in the Bible of Jesus being THE archangel Michael, PLUS being part of the Godhead (which means Jesus doesn't have to be a literal angel, but the leader thereof). How else would you interpret the scriptures I posted? And I think Australian MJ BeLIEver had a pretty strong one as well.<br />
<br /><br />So you do believe that Jesus is both God and refereed to as the archangel Michael in some scriptures?<br />That it is just another name to add to a long list of title of Jesus? You don't believe he is literally an angel?<br /><br />Because my point is that God and angles are not the same thing, that the bible makes pretty clear..<br /><br />I am sorry, could you post the scriptures you are referring to one more time and I'll have another look? Couldn't find them in the thread /overreacting/<br /><br />This is an interesting subject to me as I have studied theology.. Also, I like to "dig in", it's kind of a challenge <br /><br /> bearhug<br /><br />
<br /><br />So you do believe that Jesus is both God and refereed to as the archangel Michael in some scriptures?<br />That it is just another name to add to a long list of title of Jesus? You don't believe he is literally an angel?<br /><br />
<br /><br />agree with you here %100 [size=12pt]EDIT: not the part abt jesus being god though [/size]<br /><br />jesus not an angel. this is one of his names, Jesus, The Christ, Michael, Prince of Peace, The Word, The Son, The King of Kings the Lord of Lords and so on and so on... not only is Michael a name for Jesus, but a role. when Jesus is refered to as Michael the archangel, he is waging war. Michael is not mentioned often in the bible. when he is referred to, he is in action. in the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons<br /><br />at times, individuals are known by more than one name. for example, Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. Paul as Saul, etc (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2)<br />
<br />Because my point is that God and angles are not the same thing, that the bible makes pretty clear..<br />
<br /><br />bible also makes pretty clear that jesus is seperate from god and is gods son a different and subordinate entity to GOD - GODS humble servent and not GOD.<br /><br />- this is my son, the beloved, who i have approved....<br />- the father is greater than i...<br />- what I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me...<br />- As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father...
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."