All Michael. But he was not doing well.
In the Bambi videos, Michael was extremely unsettled and nervous on stage and backstage and I just wonder about the reasons.
Looks like if he would have a different personality, a childish one.
In the Bashir documentary I also got the impression that MJ showed many shades of his supossed personality.
I saw 3 so far, A femenine one, a childish shy one and a manly adult no hanky panky one.
I am not saying that he had DID, but that he used different personalities, as an actor would do, Imo.
I would be nervous too, in front of a German-speaking audience with Bashir hanging around. Remember he said that Michael was manic when he showed Blanket. As I recall, that was not a good period for Michael. He seemed to improve afterwards, though. Something must have happened.
I would be nervous too, in front of a German-speaking audience with Bashir hanging around. Remember he said that Michael was manic when he showed Blanket. As I recall, that was not a good period for Michael. He seemed to improve afterwards, though. Something must have happened.
i have just always had the impression here that he was not able to know what was being said and that he should have been wearing some type of device to translate and that someone in his team failed him (or set him up to fail) in this instance.
early on in this thing i would not even consider the possibilty. but now i have to wonder. it is something about the mouth. the teeth in particular. trouble is if there are two or more then you have to ask yourself who exactly are you drawn to in this thing.does that make any sense?
Perfect sense! Of the two or three MJ lookalikes I have seen, simply investigating the early solo years, one is a tad "prettier"--a more innocent, wide eyed, friendly, sweet look (not feminine, though), and one looks so very serious, deep, and scholarly, like someone you would have to explain a joke to, because he has the weight of the world on his mind; and one just looks like a wiseguy, a prankster; a delinquent, a teasing NUT.
It boggles my mind that even a perfectionist like MJ would be able to search the earth and FIND strangers who look so much like him, they fooled everyone. Or, even transform them into his likeness enough to fool billions.
It's all been said and said, that, perhaps they are near relatives or the nearest of all, twins. I think this theory works best, IF there really is more than one person that we have been seeing all these years.
If he put BOTH of them in his act/videos, as the magician in the movie The Prestige did, a second apart, we'd NEVER get it. We would see the same exact person, even if there were subtle differences, because, just like in the movie, the clock in our brains wouldn't be able to grasp a substitute person in only a second. And, we would be so accustomed to seeing "all his personalities", it would never occur to us that he looks different because he IS different--a different person! This makes his King of Pop personality a composite of all these guys' expressions of theirs.
<!-- s:arrow: -->:arrow:<!-- s:arrow: --> I have looked at all the photos together, where MJ is wearing the jacket with the buckles he wore in Moonwalker/Speed Demon, and I realized it was the clothes which made me think they were all him. Neat trick. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> The three personality types mentioned above are all wearing that suit of clothes, yet together, they look so different, side by side, I would say they are triplets! (Time to put on our straightjackets!) One is very handsome, innocent looking, friendly. One is very somber and deep, very hotly handsome. One is just dangerous! A heartbreaker, a "punker"(if that's a word). And he seems to be a thicker, more mature man. A wiseguy, as I said. This one, actually gave me a "start" (you know how your tongue turns to paper and your heart stops, because he is intimidating?). He was so much more <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> "worldly" than I had ever seen Mike...Now...
There are people who have such a chameleon type of face, they do look different every time you see them. I have met only one person like this in my life, but this phemomenon is undeniable and amazing! This is my sister's kid. I've known her all her life, and I still do not know her, when I see her. She looks THAT different. And it can't be attributed to growth or hairstyle. The very musculature in her face takes on a new personality. I can't tell you how many times I get pix of the kids out with their friends, and when I ask, "Who's this?" they laugh at me. My sister doesn't see anything different, because she sees her every day. This young lady is also somewhat more of a thinker, than the rest of the pack. Maybe it has to do with having more going on in one's brain, which incidentally shows up on the countenance? So, I am back to where I started last year, not knowing if there are twins, all the time, or just doubles here and there, standing in...
It IS a dilemma, to figure out which one you have been drawn to all this time! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> I know that identical twins like to fool people. And it only REALLY matters, if it comes down to marrying one of them; otherwise, we can just double or triple our pleasure, and let them entertain us. But, if you were to marry one---how would you decide between them? Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't... <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
great! like michael hasn't played with my mind enough now you have to come along and play with it some more <!-- s --><!-- s --> luv ya it's her <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> actually i feel like a nut more and more all the time these days <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> my brain hurts <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> i hope by the time he is done with us we have enough brain left to use it do something <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Me too. It DOES make your brain hurt! (Juggling all these men!) I remember MJ saying once that the brain loves a puzzle and can't turn loose of it until it is solved.
I just hope he really is one of those "chameleon people"(with the 7 faces). Then, I wouldn't have to be en guarde everytime I see him. I would just know it is him doing his chameleon thang. It feels like that Star Trek episode, where the android girl Ray-na falls for two men, Captain Kirk and the guy who built her, and can't decide between them, so she blows a gasket, and bites the dust...
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Also, it could be true that there are NO doubles--just decoys to divert crowd attention, and a little smoke and mirrors.
Or, it could be that EVERY "MJ" past Thriller, was a boyishly cute actor/dancer, hired and tutored by the Master, himself, to take his place in his road shows, while his real features changed into a more mature look, too manly hot for little girls. I always thought it unlikely that he would still be so "cute" into his forties. It is CUTE that sells. Look how they doctored the Bad Album cover. He's wearing tough clothes, but he's all baby-faced-"hug me"-harmless, with contacts in, too.
He doesn't even look at all like the guy on "Off the Wall" or "Thriller"!
I want to see what THAT guy looks like today. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I bet he doesn't look like Michael Jackson, King of Pop...
And here is something else: no album covers after this have his PHOTO on them; just drawings.! EVEN "Invincible", which is a puzzle all by its lonesome self. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
Since we have been looking for clues, dissecting everything, and never before this, I have been wondering why the drawing goes "pixelated" (breaking up--dissolving into tiny pixels-- I think that's what I mean) from one half to the other? What does this mean? That he has gone from a real human, to a fictional character, who must be DRAWN, as there are no photos of a fictional being; to a digital entity--behind the scenes, maybe singing, but from now on, ONLY existing faceless, in digital media, such as music discs and dvds of movies he makes?
He's been trying to tell us something for years...but, what?
Ooooh, my brain parts... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Mercy!
hey its her
i am right with you on this one i think like your mind.no you do not need a straight jacket your mind works fine!
yeah it was either doubles or twins or triplets.
just look at mike in bad video then go ahead to black and white yeah some features still look same or similiar but others makes you say mmmm i wonder.
i love the mike from bad the best of all he just was so gorgeous and manly !
he just made your body tremble all over!
oh god did i step out of bounds i hope i didnt express my self in a wrong manner.
its just mike was hot no way around that one!
i know all of you are with me on that one!
god bless mjfjei7777
I love all of your posts. I love Michael dearly now that I have gotten to know him. The other part drawing me hear though is the mystery or the puzzle. He is right my brain won't put it down. What do you guys think of the Micheal that was with Liz Taylor at Liza's wedding. He was so feminine there. Was that actually him. I have trouble believing he could be so manly and then so feminine. The same with the mug shot. I have not been able to reconcile that picture as Michael. (as well as the fact that guy was 2 inches taller than the other Michael.We will figure this out some day if that is what he wants.
Jummm...definitively it's gotta be the patient (left) of an excellent plastic surgeon!!! I mean, somebody gave his life just to be a MJ decoy! WOW! I love this planet!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Jummm...definitively it's gotta be the patient (left) of an excellent plastic surgeon!!! I mean, somebody gave his life just to be a MJ decoy! WOW! I love this planet!! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Is this the same ANDROMEDA who had a forum, chat, youtube etc and was uploading LeahciMNoskcaJ's videos claiming that she received them from an informer. Is the same Andromeda who was manipulating old videos of Michael, uploading them and claiming they were recent? Is this the same ANDROMEDA who was uploading photos that had been photoshopped, claiming they were of Michael and/or a double. Is this the same ANDROMEDA who downloaded audio of Michael from 2005, from a website that sold bracelets in support of Michael during the trial, uploaded the audio to youtube and claimed it was recent and sent to her by an informer? Is this the same ANDROMEDA who told people that an informer was in contact with her and was revealing things to her on Micheal's behalf? Is this the same ANDROMEDA, that when confronted about all of these deceptions, deleted all of her accounts including the forum?
Before I believe that this is authentic:
1. Who is ANDROMEDA? Because if it is the woman described above, then this is not credible evidence.
2. The website that is credited in this still http://www.mjhd.bplaced.net/ is not functioning.
"bplaced.net Diese Seite ist leider nicht mehr verfügbar, Fehler 404. Sorry, this page is not available any more, error 404."
3.Where are the original photographs, that have been cropped and used in the comparison?
4. Without the original photographs, we can not verify that one or both of the photos hasn't be altered, is from the same day and taken around the same time.
5. Both pictures are taken from completely different angles, the lighting may be different, Michael's head is at a completely different angel in the two photos. As for facial hair growth, photo #1 could be from late in a day and #2 could have been taken in the morning.
6. I am no expert on photos but photo #2 looks like it has been altered to me. I could be wrong and maybe it is just the angle/lighting but it just doesn't look right.
I love all of your posts. I love Michael dearly now that I have gotten to know him. The other part drawing me hear though is the mystery or the puzzle. He is right my brain won't put it down. What do you guys think of the Micheal that was with Liz Taylor at Liza's wedding. He was so feminine there. Was that actually him. I have trouble believing he could be so manly and then so feminine. The same with the mug shot. I have not been able to reconcile that picture as Michael. (as well as the fact that guy was 2 inches taller than the other Michael.We will figure this out some day if that is what he wants.
I didn't see the way MJ looked at Liza's wedding, I guess, but I have seen pix of what looked to be MJ very thin and fragile looking. And the only thing I know which can change appearance SO drasticly, as to feminize or masculanize someone, more so than usual, is hormones, either a natural imbalance disorder, or taking them on purpose to bulk up or to thin muscle.
These substances can quickly alter appearance, unless under the guidance of an expert, (i.e., one who has actually experienced these), and I don't mean a physician, either. (If you want to have a bad reaction of side effects from any drug, take it as prescribed by a physician. They ALWAYS prescribe TOO much.)
(Hormones can do other scary things, like grow a young miss a fine strappin mustache, or cause a guy to gain 30 pounds and bigger bones in a few months----and thank GOD these effects can be reversible!)
It can't be plastic surgery, either, because it fluctuates, back and forth. My guess would be that these are stand ins or doubles or MJ losing lots of weight on purpose, to fool people. Maybe I am mistaken, but, I thought MJ was actually a lot thicker in frame when his first kids were born. I NEVER felt the pix with Debbie and the babies were actually our (familiar) MJ. He was so made up, and make up can change feature's shape so much.
But, something else...this puzzles me EVERY time I see this. Sometimes MJ poses for pictures partially turned from a straight-on pose, and the look on his face is exactly like the expression of a person apprehensive of being "discovered". Someone with a SECRET, like the Mona Lisa...I don't know how else to describe it!! He looks guilty and wary of being busted. <!-- s --><!-- s --> Some of the pix with Debbie have this "look" in the eyes, in my view... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I haven't really seen this guy for years, but THERE HE WAS, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> SUDDENLY, IN TII!!
That's what brought him to mind, the fact that I hadn't seen MJ do this for ages. I recognized him instantly, and realized HE was not the same guy in the rest of TII, or EVEN the rest of the "Smooth Criminal/ Gilda" segment of the film!!
So...who knows who is who, any more. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Heck, MJ could be walking the streets NOW, <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> completely undisturbed, because he's left us so many "looks", no one could be certain enough to approach him, any more <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I must admit, though, that the mystery is kind of interesting. I mean, I have a theory...but, we'll all just have to wait and see which one HE reveals as true. He's already revealed his heart, I think, and for me that is the BEST part of this whole thing. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
I been looking at this thread, but I did not really see any names of Michael Jackson's Body Doubles. Can someone tell me the names of almost all of his body doubles? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I been looking at this thread, but I did not really see any names of Michael Jackson's Body Doubles. Can someone tell me the names of almost all of his body doubles? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I don't think we know the names. We are just speculating that he has some body doubles. If there are body doubles, I'm assuming Michael made them sign a confidentiality agreement so no one would know who they are.
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Impersonators put make-up on their nose so it looks like Michael Jackson's. Impersonators wear make-up to give their chin a cleft look. Plus anything is possible when it comes to Michael Jackson.
E'casanova wore the same outfit as Michael Jackson.
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Regarding the above doubles/impersonators, it's not the same same guy or the same outfit (no military bars, etc.).
But, what is interesting to me is that the two guys in your two sig pictures are not the same guy either! Very close, but nope. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Regarding the above doubles/impersonators, it's not the same same guy or the same outfit (no military bars, etc.).
But, what is interesting to me is that the two guys in your two sig pictures are not the same guy either! Very close, but nope. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
i also noticed the other day this one useing left hand for autograph when we have video of him useing his right. doesn't mean he can't use both but i wonder if it has even been mentioned?
I watched a video with E'casanova (looking for it..) He said that he is the mirror image to MJ. One is left handed and the other right handed.
Do any of you know if MJ was able to use both hands?
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Regarding the above doubles/impersonators, it's not the same same guy or the same outfit (no military bars, etc.).
But, what is interesting to me is that the two guys in your two sig pictures are not the same guy either! Very close, but nope. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Well it's two different decades, one is early 80s the other is mid 90s, Michael changed a lot between that time period, so you can't really compare those two photos.
the nose is different , and there's no cleft.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Regarding the above doubles/impersonators, it's not the same same guy or the same outfit (no military bars, etc.).
But, what is interesting to me is that the two guys in your two sig pictures are not the same guy either! Very close, but nope. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Well it's two different decades, one is early 80s the other is mid 90s, Michael changed a lot between that time period, so you can't really compare those two photos.
Still I would expect the ears and jawline to stay the same.
I still think there are possibly two masters to the brand.
Comments
Looks like if he would have a different personality, a childish one.
In the Bashir documentary I also got the impression that MJ showed many shades of his supossed personality.
I saw 3 so far, A femenine one, a childish shy one and a manly adult no hanky panky one.
I am not saying that he had DID, but that he used different personalities, as an actor would do, Imo.
i have just always had the impression here that he was not able to know what was being said and that he should have been wearing some type of device to translate and that someone in his team failed him (or set him up to fail) in this instance.
Me too. It DOES make your brain hurt! (Juggling all these men!) I remember MJ saying once that the brain loves a puzzle and can't turn loose of it until it is solved.
I just hope he really is one of those "chameleon people"(with the 7 faces). Then, I wouldn't have to be en guarde everytime I see him. I would just know it is him doing his chameleon thang. It feels like that Star Trek episode, where the android girl Ray-na falls for two men, Captain Kirk and the guy who built her, and can't decide between them, so she blows a gasket, and bites the dust...
<!-- s
Also, it could be true that there are NO doubles--just decoys to divert crowd attention, and a little smoke and mirrors.
Or, it could be that EVERY "MJ" past Thriller, was a boyishly cute actor/dancer, hired and tutored by the Master, himself, to take his place in his road shows, while his real features changed into a more mature look, too manly hot for little girls. I always thought it unlikely that he would still be so "cute" into his forties. It is CUTE that sells. Look how they doctored the Bad Album cover. He's wearing tough clothes, but he's all baby-faced-"hug me"-harmless, with contacts in, too.
He doesn't even look at all like the guy on "Off the Wall" or "Thriller"!
I want to see what THAT guy looks like today. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I bet he doesn't look like Michael Jackson, King of Pop...
And here is something else: no album covers after this have his PHOTO on them; just drawings.! EVEN "Invincible", which is a puzzle all by its lonesome self. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
Since we have been looking for clues, dissecting everything, and never before this, I have been wondering why the drawing goes "pixelated" (breaking up--dissolving into tiny pixels-- I think that's what I mean) from one half to the other? What does this mean? That he has gone from a real human, to a fictional character, who must be DRAWN, as there are no photos of a fictional being; to a digital entity--behind the scenes, maybe singing, but from now on, ONLY existing faceless, in digital media, such as music discs and dvds of movies he makes?
He's been trying to tell us something for years...but, what?
Ooooh, my brain parts... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Mercy!
i am right with you on this one i think like your mind.no you do not need a straight jacket your mind works fine!
yeah it was either doubles or twins or triplets.
just look at mike in bad video then go ahead to black and white yeah some features still look same or similiar but others makes you say mmmm i wonder.
i love the mike from bad the best of all he just was so gorgeous and manly !
he just made your body tremble all over!
oh god did i step out of bounds i hope i didnt express my self in a wrong manner.
its just mike was hot no way around that one!
i know all of you are with me on that one!
god bless mjfjei7777
http://img137.imageshack.us/i/thisisitdouble.jpg/
Jummm...definitively it's gotta be the patient (left) of an excellent plastic surgeon!!! I mean, somebody gave his life just to be a MJ decoy! WOW! I love this planet!! <!-- s
Is this the same ANDROMEDA who had a forum, chat, youtube etc and was uploading LeahciMNoskcaJ's videos claiming that she received them from an informer. Is the same Andromeda who was manipulating old videos of Michael, uploading them and claiming they were recent? Is this the same ANDROMEDA who was uploading photos that had been photoshopped, claiming they were of Michael and/or a double. Is this the same ANDROMEDA who downloaded audio of Michael from 2005, from a website that sold bracelets in support of Michael during the trial, uploaded the audio to youtube and claimed it was recent and sent to her by an informer? Is this the same ANDROMEDA who told people that an informer was in contact with her and was revealing things to her on Micheal's behalf? Is this the same ANDROMEDA, that when confronted about all of these deceptions, deleted all of her accounts including the forum?
Before I believe that this is authentic:
1. Who is ANDROMEDA? Because if it is the woman described above, then this is not credible evidence.
2. The website that is credited in this still http://www.mjhd.bplaced.net/ is not functioning.
"bplaced.net Diese Seite ist leider nicht mehr verfügbar, Fehler 404. Sorry, this page is not available any more, error 404."
3.Where are the original photographs, that have been cropped and used in the comparison?
4. Without the original photographs, we can not verify that one or both of the photos hasn't be altered, is from the same day and taken around the same time.
5. Both pictures are taken from completely different angles, the lighting may be different, Michael's head is at a completely different angel in the two photos. As for facial hair growth, photo #1 could be from late in a day and #2 could have been taken in the morning.
6. I am no expert on photos but photo #2 looks like it has been altered to me. I could be wrong and maybe it is just the angle/lighting but it just doesn't look right.
I didn't see the way MJ looked at Liza's wedding, I guess, but I have seen pix of what looked to be MJ very thin and fragile looking. And the only thing I know which can change appearance SO drasticly, as to feminize or masculanize someone, more so than usual, is hormones, either a natural imbalance disorder, or taking them on purpose to bulk up or to thin muscle.
These substances can quickly alter appearance, unless under the guidance of an expert, (i.e., one who has actually experienced these), and I don't mean a physician, either. (If you want to have a bad reaction of side effects from any drug, take it as prescribed by a physician. They ALWAYS prescribe TOO much.)
(Hormones can do other scary things, like grow a young miss a fine strappin mustache, or cause a guy to gain 30 pounds and bigger bones in a few months----and thank GOD these effects can be reversible!)
It can't be plastic surgery, either, because it fluctuates, back and forth. My guess would be that these are stand ins or doubles or MJ losing lots of weight on purpose, to fool people. Maybe I am mistaken, but, I thought MJ was actually a lot thicker in frame when his first kids were born. I NEVER felt the pix with Debbie and the babies were actually our (familiar) MJ. He was so made up, and make up can change feature's shape so much.
But, something else...this puzzles me EVERY time I see this. Sometimes MJ poses for pictures partially turned from a straight-on pose, and the look on his face is exactly like the expression of a person apprehensive of being "discovered". Someone with a SECRET, like the Mona Lisa...I don't know how else to describe it!! He looks guilty and wary of being busted. <!-- s
I haven't really seen this guy for years, but THERE HE WAS, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> SUDDENLY, IN TII!!
That's what brought him to mind, the fact that I hadn't seen MJ do this for ages. I recognized him instantly, and realized HE was not the same guy in the rest of TII, or EVEN the rest of the "Smooth Criminal/ Gilda" segment of the film!!
So...who knows who is who, any more. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Heck, MJ could be walking the streets NOW, <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> completely undisturbed, because he's left us so many "looks", no one could be certain enough to approach him, any more <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I must admit, though, that the mystery is kind of interesting. I mean, I have a theory...but, we'll all just have to wait and see which one HE reveals as true. He's already revealed his heart, I think, and for me that is the BEST part of this whole thing. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
I don't think we know the names. We are just speculating that he has some body doubles. If there are body doubles, I'm assuming Michael made them sign a confidentiality agreement so no one would know who they are.
Plus, if he really was the double, do you think he would wear the exact same outfit out in public? Wouldn't that kind of give it away? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Impersonators put make-up on their nose so it looks like Michael Jackson's. Impersonators wear make-up to give their chin a cleft look. Plus anything is possible when it comes to Michael Jackson.
E'casanova wore the same outfit as Michael Jackson.
Regarding the above doubles/impersonators, it's not the same same guy or the same outfit (no military bars, etc.).
But, what is interesting to me is that the two guys in your two sig pictures are not the same guy either! Very close, but nope. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
i also noticed the other day this one useing left hand for autograph when we have video of him useing his right. doesn't mean he can't use both but i wonder if it has even been mentioned?
Do any of you know if MJ was able to use both hands?
Well it's two different decades, one is early 80s the other is mid 90s, Michael changed a lot between that time period, so you can't really compare those two photos.
But others can´t
Still I would expect the ears and jawline to stay the same.
I still think there are possibly two masters to the brand.