1) For me personally DD on LKL is one of the main reasons why I stick to the idea that Michael is not dead, but I think it is meaningless to show a picture of the real DD to point out that Michael might have been DD on LKL.
2) Gilda and her story as well as many clues in TII help me to keep the faith and I would really like to openly discuss what all those clues in TII would imply if Michael was indeed dead. Very interesting point I think - no matter what your point of view is.
But both can be invalidated by the idea that there are doubles all around. When I see Michael doing something and in the end it was not Michael I cannot know anything for sure.
Was it Michael who made the BAM-statement at the end of TII or was it a double? Was it Michael's idea to use the Gilda-piece in TII or was it the industry (who killed him) who made a double act with Gilda? Was it Michael who crawled from under the black widow or was it a double. I believe it was all our Michael hence I believe Michael is alive ...
I don't think we have any proofs we only have clues, hints and a motivation to keep believing. And we have a big picture and every puzzle piece you choose to use as a proof will probably fail at this moment.
but hasnt dd confirmed that it was in fact him on lkl - so this argument is blown away by dd. so if you were going to put your best 3 arguments - this would be a non starter
my thinking is after having posted this question is - if we cant find 3 sound points then we have no argument
but hasnt dd confirmed that it was in fact him on lkl
Where? I never saw him on tape say it was him.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
arabian we don´t have any no refutable proof... we would be calling media if we had... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
We can gather evidences, but no proof.
I think that a little list with the more convincing arguments to doubt on his death could be enough to show that we have reasons to think so... Most of us only believe or think so... none of us know <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Anyway, I don´t know if we have to convince anybody at all.
I see many people thinks that we have to, or that Michael is going to come back when we find him, or we solve something, as if this is a game, and BAM is the price...
MJ burns victim lookalike sparks rumours he’s alive
London, May 11 : A website has claimed that Michael Jackson is alive and masquerading as a burns victim, astonishing users all over the world.
Internet rumours on YouTube and Facebook also claim the King of Pop is appearing on TV talk shows as Dave Dave, 33, a man who suffered severe facial disfigurement after his father set him on fire.
Dave was born David Rothenberg, in Brooklyn, New York. At the age of six, his father set him on fire over a twisted revenge concerning the child’s custody.
The little boy suffered 90 percent injuries, and was scarred badly, but survived.
His mother, Marie wrote a book on his ordeal, which was then made into a movie. A trip to Jackson’s Neverland ranch was organized for the boy, where the pop star took the boy under his wing.
Dave, now a law student living in Utah, changed his surname to break all ties with his father.
“He befriended me. He took me into his life, which is very rare for Michael to do.
“But he opened up his arms to me and accepted me as a very good friend of his. And throughout the years, he never let me go,” The Sun quoted the boy as saying.
Now Dave, who appeared on the Larry King show to talk about his memories of Jackson on the day of the star’s memorial service last year, is rumoured to be the pop star himself.
The website called michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com, is owned by a 28-year-old and her friend, Mo, who call themselves Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators.
“At first we started investigating Michael’s death as it was a gut feeling we both had.
“The media told us two different stories. TMZ.com reported he died six minutes before the doctor pronounced him dead, and CNN kept telling us he was in a coma. What really happened still remains a mystery,” said the website owner.
Lawyer Brian Oxman, who acts as Dave’s spokesman, rubbished the rumours saying that Jackson would be the last man wanting to study law.
“He was so remarkable that people find it difficult to believe he is no longer with us. They long for him to remain a part of our lives.
“Dave Dave is an extraordinary young man. Michael Jackson took care of Dave for many years and asked nothing in return,” he added.
are you saying what oxman has been quoted as saying is a lie?
MJ burns victim lookalike sparks rumours he’s alive
London, May 11 : A website has claimed that Michael Jackson is alive and masquerading as a burns victim, astonishing users all over the world.
Internet rumours on YouTube and Facebook also claim the King of Pop is appearing on TV talk shows as Dave Dave, 33, a man who suffered severe facial disfigurement after his father set him on fire.
Dave was born David Rothenberg, in Brooklyn, New York. At the age of six, his father set him on fire over a twisted revenge concerning the child’s custody.
The little boy suffered 90 percent injuries, and was scarred badly, but survived.
His mother, Marie wrote a book on his ordeal, which was then made into a movie. A trip to Jackson’s Neverland ranch was organized for the boy, where the pop star took the boy under his wing.
Dave, now a law student living in Utah, changed his surname to break all ties with his father.
“He befriended me. He took me into his life, which is very rare for Michael to do.
“But he opened up his arms to me and accepted me as a very good friend of his. And throughout the years, he never let me go,” The Sun quoted the boy as saying.
Now Dave, who appeared on the Larry King show to talk about his memories of Jackson on the day of the star’s memorial service last year, is rumoured to be the pop star himself.
The website called michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com, is owned by a 28-year-old and her friend, Mo, who call themselves Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators.
“At first we started investigating Michael’s death as it was a gut feeling we both had.
“The media told us two different stories. TMZ.com reported he died six minutes before the doctor pronounced him dead, and CNN kept telling us he was in a coma. What really happened still remains a mystery,” said the website owner.
Lawyer Brian Oxman, who acts as Dave’s spokesman, rubbished the rumours saying that Jackson would be the last man wanting to study law.
“He was so remarkable that people find it difficult to believe he is no longer with us. They long for him to remain a part of our lives.
“Dave Dave is an extraordinary young man. Michael Jackson took care of Dave for many years and asked nothing in return,” he added.
are you saying what oxman has been quoted as saying is a lie?
Fact is, that we don't know what Oxman told The Sun. The Sun screwed us, so they could have screwed Oxman as well, it's as simple as that.
IF, and I emphasize the word IF, The Sun indeed talked to Oxman, then "rubbished the rumours saying that Jackson would be the last man wanting to study law" does not mean Mike did not appear on Larry King Live disguised as Dave Dave.
so what did you actually say then and what did you write in your complaint letter
the suns comment is being recited globally - a bit of a problem if your not happy. the thing is if you doubt the truthfulness of the sun, then why did you agree to speak to them? what did you hope to achieve? it is a tabloid newspaper - and mike complained about this one because of the wacko jacko title they gave him
2. could be franks comment to raffles - the interview was after the death, and he said he had spoken to him the night before. how could he have?
I feel that there is nothing that conclusively prooves MJ is alive, since each claim could be explained away some way, if a person was a doubter. Michael knows that-- things can be photo-shopped, existence of doubles, people lie, splicing of video. There simply has to be a tiny seed of hope planted in someone's heart, it needs to be nurished with a few good clues and there may be a surprisingly good yeild. We all play a part in this, tiny or huge. After sprouting there are thousands of strong proofs that collectively shout he's alive, if you have the desire to read and dig. But MJ as DD is a simple fun place to start.
I feel that there is nothing that conclusively prooves MJ is alive, since each claim could be explained away some way, if a person was a doubter. Michael knows that-- things can be photo-shopped, existence of doubles, people lie, splicing of video. There simply has to be a tiny seed of hope planted in someone's heart, it needs to be nurished with a few good clues and there may be a surprisingly good yeild. We all play a part in this, tiny or huge. After sprouting there are thousands of strong proofs that collectively shout he's alive, if you have the desire to read and dig. But MJ as DD is a simple fun place to start.
its just the influential legal person informed me that you have to put your best arugments - you may have a number of arguments - but pp dont listen to them all and their icing. to grap the attention and to sway the court or whoever you need to have your best points. he used three that i saw, and they were always hard to undermine. so if you use that example when you give a press release - you have to make sure that they are your best points - and difficult to undermine - otherwise in this particular situation you seriously undermine your position, your arguments and what you represent will be ridiculed and thought of as silly. a hoax site purporting to investigate - putting forward weak arguments counterproductive.
if you cant convince someone after your three main points then you have lost them, they have stopped listening. the sun is an influential newspaper it can make and break things - see the effect of wacko jacko - effective labelling
If that pic is a fake, then we have NO photo of Michael dead. And this is unbelievable to me. If he is dead there must be photos, and if there must be photos, there must be at least one leaked to the press.
So - I think it's logical to assume that, as long as we don't have ONE real picture with Michael dead - he is in fact not dead.
If that pic is a fake, then we have NO photo of Michael dead. And this is unbelievable to me. If he is dead there must be photos, and if there must be photos, there must be at least one leaked to the press.
So - I think it's logical to assume that, as long as we don't have ONE real picture with Michael dead - he is in fact not dead.
but its not logical all the pix shows is it is a fake pix - nothing more - we assume more thats all
I AM IMPRESSED THAT AT LEAST THE SUN WENT TO THE EXTENT OF PUBLISHING THE NEWS ABOUT THE HOAX.......SINCE A LOTTA PEOPLE SWALLOW THESE TABLOIDS, SO A LOT MORE WILL BCOME BELIVERS WHEN THEY COME TO TIS FORUM. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
MICHAEL.....WHERE ARE YOU? DONT FORGET TO MENTION US IN YOUR "THANK YOU" SPEECH.... <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
If that pic is a fake, then we have NO photo of Michael dead. And this is unbelievable to me. If he is dead there must be photos, and if there must be photos, there must be at least one leaked to the press.
So - I think it's logical to assume that, as long as we don't have ONE real picture with Michael dead - he is in fact not dead.
Exactly. If Mike is dead, then someone MUST have taken a pic of his body. I mean, there's the EMT staff, the staff at UCLA, the staff at the coroners office and the staff at Forest Lawn, so quite a few people saw and had access to the body. It took them 10 whole weeks to bury him, so his body was out there for 10 weeks, yet NO ONE wanted to make a few extra bucks by taking a pic and selling it to the press..? Oh come on...
Do you really think this is a good thing? This is really disappointing.
Michael Jackson would not have wanted this. The SUN? Really? A tabloid?
This was wrong.
Hello,
This is just a thought but maybe Mo & Souza you haven't really been screwed because they may have chosen Davedave for the most attention seekingly bizarre story which usually creates a buzz & maybe for other reasons that I can't think of.
They have put the story out on the 11 on page 11 = 11:11
Davedave decided to cancel his show on Myspace - he's 33 & added on the 3rd = 333 - this may just be me thinking too much but it may be relevant?
They have taken notice of you which is in itself brilliant so now you have started something - really cool!
I don't like tabloids either but it is part of the piece by piece & once it comes out it may help people to realise that what can seem like a trash/junk/conspiracy story is actually true. Wasn't it in Men in black that all the stories they wished to have de-bunked they fed to the Trash papers so noone would believe it? So it could be a good thing.
Lots of love
xxx
Mo and Souza, I had no clue you two cooperate with tabloids <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
Great job Mo and Souza! I've always thought that we need to turn tabloids to work for us and not let them tell lies. We must use them as our "weapons" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> cause unfortunatelly most of the people are reading tabloids and beLIEving it. So we can tell our oppinions and feeding it to them <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> that's the way we can blat our voice out.
look i dont believe in the dd to mj thing - but they think the members on the site and the wider fans are crazy - how is that good for the site, the members, admin, let alone mj and dd
if the underlining view is to get press coverage for the site as a website and to increase traffic well thats done but i cant see anything else positive coming out of this
Wow, they did gave it a lot of time! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
I liked hearing the reporter say he spend quite some time here researching...
I think they don´t get it, the journalists seem confused.
We don´t think that real Dave is MJ, we think that MJ was at that interview with L.King disguised as Dave.
Mo and Souza, I had no clue you two cooperate with tabloids <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
Great job Mo and Souza! I've always thought that we need to turn tabloids to work for us and not let them tell lies. We must use them as our "weapons" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> cause unfortunatelly most of the people are reading tabloids and beLIEving it. So we can tell our oppinions and feeding it to them <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> that's the way we can blat our voice out.
Ok then I guess Michael is not clever because he didn´t use them as a weapon... so easy to do.
He would have thought, Ok I´m using tabloid to express the idea that I´m not a pedofile Wacko Jacko, that I want to heal the world.
Came on!
I´m asking myself why are we talking about this now that there´s no return.
I´m asking myself if the members word mean something here, or we´re just a number.
Comments
2) Gilda and her story as well as many clues in TII help me to keep the faith and I would really like to openly discuss what all those clues in TII would imply if Michael was indeed dead. Very interesting point I think - no matter what your point of view is.
But both can be invalidated by the idea that there are doubles all around. When I see Michael doing something and in the end it was not Michael I cannot know anything for sure.
Was it Michael who made the BAM-statement at the end of TII or was it a double? Was it Michael's idea to use the Gilda-piece in TII or was it the industry (who killed him) who made a double act with Gilda? Was it Michael who crawled from under the black widow or was it a double. I believe it was all our Michael hence I believe Michael is alive ...
I don't think we have any proofs we only have clues, hints and a motivation to keep believing. And we have a big picture and every puzzle piece you choose to use as a proof will probably fail at this moment.
my thinking is after having posted this question is - if we cant find 3 sound points then we have no argument
<!-- m -->http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/mu ... 5865352832<!-- m -->
Where? I never saw him on tape say it was him.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I agree 100% with you.
Fact is, that we don't know what Oxman told The Sun. The Sun screwed us, so they could have screwed Oxman as well, it's as simple as that.
IF, and I emphasize the word IF, The Sun indeed talked to Oxman, then "rubbished the rumours saying that Jackson would be the last man wanting to study law" does not mean Mike did not appear on Larry King Live disguised as Dave Dave.
the suns comment is being recited globally - a bit of a problem if your not happy. the thing is if you doubt the truthfulness of the sun, then why did you agree to speak to them? what did you hope to achieve? it is a tabloid newspaper - and mike complained about this one because of the wacko jacko title they gave him
2. could be franks comment to raffles - the interview was after the death, and he said he had spoken to him the night before. how could he have?
Then why his myspace is only about music?!?!?!?
its just the influential legal person informed me that you have to put your best arugments - you may have a number of arguments - but pp dont listen to them all and their icing. to grap the attention and to sway the court or whoever you need to have your best points. he used three that i saw, and they were always hard to undermine. so if you use that example when you give a press release - you have to make sure that they are your best points - and difficult to undermine - otherwise in this particular situation you seriously undermine your position, your arguments and what you represent will be ridiculed and thought of as silly. a hoax site purporting to investigate - putting forward weak arguments counterproductive.
if you cant convince someone after your three main points then you have lost them, they have stopped listening. the sun is an influential newspaper it can make and break things - see the effect of wacko jacko - effective labelling
If that pic is a fake, then we have NO photo of Michael dead. And this is unbelievable to me. If he is dead there must be photos, and if there must be photos, there must be at least one leaked to the press.
So - I think it's logical to assume that, as long as we don't have ONE real picture with Michael dead - he is in fact not dead.
but its not logical all the pix shows is it is a fake pix - nothing more - we assume more thats all
AFTER A WHOLE WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FEELS GOOD TO BE HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT ALL DID I MISS?
FILL ME IN
I AM IMPRESSED THAT AT LEAST THE SUN WENT TO THE EXTENT OF PUBLISHING THE NEWS ABOUT THE HOAX.......SINCE A LOTTA PEOPLE SWALLOW THESE TABLOIDS, SO A LOT MORE WILL BCOME BELIVERS WHEN THEY COME TO TIS FORUM. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
MICHAEL.....WHERE ARE YOU? DONT FORGET TO MENTION US IN YOUR "THANK YOU" SPEECH.... <!-- s
Exactly. If Mike is dead, then someone MUST have taken a pic of his body. I mean, there's the EMT staff, the staff at UCLA, the staff at the coroners office and the staff at Forest Lawn, so quite a few people saw and had access to the body. It took them 10 whole weeks to bury him, so his body was out there for 10 weeks, yet NO ONE wanted to make a few extra bucks by taking a pic and selling it to the press..? Oh come on...
or james brown
the fresh dead body
or any recent star
you dont see the fresh corpse - thus this is not reason enough to say he is alive or the others would be alive
Michael Jackson would not have wanted this. The SUN? Really? A tabloid?
This was wrong.
This is just a thought but maybe Mo & Souza you haven't really been screwed because they may have chosen Davedave for the most attention seekingly bizarre story which usually creates a buzz & maybe for other reasons that I can't think of.
They have put the story out on the 11 on page 11 = 11:11
Davedave decided to cancel his show on Myspace - he's 33 & added on the 3rd = 333 - this may just be me thinking too much but it may be relevant?
They have taken notice of you which is in itself brilliant so now you have started something - really cool!
I don't like tabloids either but it is part of the piece by piece & once it comes out it may help people to realise that what can seem like a trash/junk/conspiracy story is actually true. Wasn't it in Men in black that all the stories they wished to have de-bunked they fed to the Trash papers so noone would believe it? So it could be a good thing.
Lots of love
xxx
Great job Mo and Souza! I've always thought that we need to turn tabloids to work for us and not let them tell lies. We must use them as our "weapons" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> cause unfortunatelly most of the people are reading tabloids and beLIEving it. So we can tell our oppinions and feeding it to them <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> that's the way we can blat our voice out.
<!-- m -->http://au.tv.yahoo.com/the-morning-show/video/#fop<!-- m -->
As always, with L.O.V.E xoxo
Wow, they did gave it a lot of time! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
I liked hearing the reporter say he spend quite some time here researching...
right that is positive press
look i dont believe in the dd to mj thing - but they think the members on the site and the wider fans are crazy - how is that good for the site, the members, admin, let alone mj and dd
if the underlining view is to get press coverage for the site as a website and to increase traffic well thats done but i cant see anything else positive coming out of this
I think they don´t get it, the journalists seem confused.
We don´t think that real Dave is MJ, we think that MJ was at that interview with L.King disguised as Dave.
Ok then I guess Michael is not clever because he didn´t use them as a weapon... so easy to do.
He would have thought, Ok I´m using tabloid to express the idea that I´m not a pedofile Wacko Jacko, that I want to heal the world.
Came on!
I´m asking myself why are we talking about this now that there´s no return.
I´m asking myself if the members word mean something here, or we´re just a number.