I have been turning this over for a day or so and I am uncomfortable with the whole concept. Sure, at face value it's a wonderful idea. But this whole death hoax and Michael Jackson Fan group thing is so toxic that I'm afraid anything with his name attached to it looks "cultish" or like wacky fan driven.
I am also mildly instinctively offended at the notion that members here aren't already doing their part to be the man in the mirror and make that change... not because they have to answer to someone or to get recognition and pats on the back for it publicly on the board, or to seek approval from TS or to appease Michael, but because it's the right thing to do and the right way to live, and frankly, we all got shook up out of the Matrix and got our eyes opened recently.
Again, wonderful idea. But I have reservations that this won't blow up in someone's face. This death hoax community is turbulent, you know what I mean? Do we really have to "prove" that we are walking the walk to the internet community? I am not at all suggesting that anyone should wear this hat that doesn't fit into it. Just throwing out some honest thoughts.
I understand what you're saying about looking "cultish or like wacky fan driven," but the bottom line is that charities would benefit. Isn't that what really matters? It would be nice to see Michael's name connected with charity (as it should be) more than all the tabloid BS.
I, for one, don't care about the recognition. That's not what this is about. I would be just as happy - more so, even - if the donors remained unknown.
Mo/Souza: I think perhaps the donation list should not be made public. Instead, maybe just something that shows how many have donated and how close we are to reaching the goal - like when people do charity walks and they have their own donation websites that people can go to. Either that, or I'd like the option to make Anonymous donations. I think bec has a a point in that some people who would rather not broadcast their charity may be hesitant to join in if they can't do so anonymously.
Pink Topaz, I understand what you're saying but are you following me? Just as devil's advocate here, why do we need attention for doing good deeds though? Maybe I'm being difficult, I dunno. Just feeling the need to verbally kick it around a little.
To be honest, i wouldn't like my name to be on a list just because i gave money. Some people have no money and can't afford to make donation. Do they have to remain out of the list like they didn't WANT to give ? That would be unfair to people who cannot give or bring them to try find a way to justify about their "povert" (i don't find another word right now)
I think that if i ever happen to manage to give something, having my name on the list would possibly make other people feel uncomfortable and so embarrass me at the same time...
I think it has to remain anonymous. If you have a will to give something, the pride you get from it must remain YOURS.
Pink Topaz, I understand what you're saying but are you following me? Just as devil's advocate here, why do we need attention for doing good deeds though? Maybe I'm being difficult, I dunno. Just feeling the need to verbally kick it around a little.
Of course I'm following you. I didn't say we need attention- credit- for good deeds, and as for me I don't care if we get or don't get it. The attention we want is the kind that will contribute, and that means all of the other people on the net- non-believers, believers, fans, non-fans- everyone!
Just like voice and bec mentioned, issues can arrise and usually always do, thats why im not all to keen on donations or charities or any money giving of any kind, issues can arrise and thats why this site does not and will not make any money or place any banner ads in order to make money, it never has and never will happen.
As kind and giving it can be the first thing a few members posted like voice and bec is that bad things can happen from doing something like this and i tend to agree but Souza & mo does have the right & ability though to start a site thats seperated from this site and do what she does there, its not related to this site so it doesnt affect this site.
I am a kind and giving person, some know this first hand, so im all into helping others, and I agree that this is a thoughtful idea and thats why i gave my input, if souza & mo want to help a charity then so be it but as long as you all know it cant be attached to this site in any way, I and they do not need any legal issues brought because of charitable donations.
Sometimes being caring and giving leads others to get the wrong IMPRESSION and then things fall apart from there when they shouldnt.
I am also mildly instinctively offended at the notion that members here aren't already doing their part to be the man in the mirror and make that change... not because they have to answer to someone or to get recognition and pats on the back for it publicly on the board, or to seek approval from TS or to appease Michael, but because it's the right thing to do and the right way to live, and frankly, we all got shook up out of the Matrix and got our eyes opened recently.
I get what you mean bec, and I must say that at first I also felt a little offended. But I do everything I can and I know that myself, that's enough for me. We can do a lot of good with it and that is what's important, not what someone else thinks of us or any blogger on the internet that needs to get a life and do something with it instead of slandering someone else. I also think some will donate just to seek approval or to please Mike and I have to say that if that's what it takes to get people donate, then fine with me. If they are only doing it for him and not because they will feel better themselves, it would be sad but at least they will donate and therefore do something good for someone else. It's still their own choice and most of us on here are mature enough to make our own decisions. I don't need approval from anyone to do anything. TS is apparently happy with the subforums but I think that's not enough. It's a good way to make people aware of the numerous charities, but that's all. I am afraid it will bleed to death again once people have calmed down. It's about showing what you can do when you unite and which other people you can inspire to join you. I don't want attention drawn to me personally, hence I registered the domain anonymously, but I would like to draw attention to us as a group to show what can be done if we 'raise our voice as one' and I would like the site to get that many visitors that we would be able to donate $5,000,- to a charity each week.
I don't want any negativity around it though, that's why I said I won't manage the site if we go through with this. Some people seem to get off on discrediting us and find whatever to make sure they can write some new blog about that. I don't care if they do that about me because they can all kiss my butt, but I don't want this cause dragged through the mud and therefore it's not a good idea if either me, Badkolo or Mo are affiliated with this site.
I also agree that everything should stay anonymous, as it is on here as well. I never feel comfortable with personal info on the web, same goes for this. And some people are simply not able to donate because they don't have the financial means. But what they can do is volunteer to help charities by lending a hand or professional skills.
I really want everyone on the same page with this or it's better to stop it right here because we will only get discussions about it and that's not what we want.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I think it's a good idea and I understand the reservations of other members but I think as Michael's army of L.O.V.E it would be a bit hypocritical of us not to do something like this as a group as we all talk about love and healing the world a lot, we should practice what we preach. Obviously many of us already give to/help charities already and there will be many who financially just can't afford to donate but I'm sure none of us will be casting judgment on anyone else and it will be anonymous anyway. As long as it's all above board and we know the money's going where we want it to I'm fine with it, it's not like we're some type of cult here so everyone can make up their own minds whether to participate or not.
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned too much emphasis is put on 'donating money'. I'd rather put the emphasis on actual acting - putting effort into doing something for another person, really helping people by putting your shoulder to the wheel. I think that will make a bigger change than donating a couple of bucks every week.
In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
Oh dear, I can't help but feel a bit despondent about all this today. It seems we have many different ideas of what our aim is here. This needs to be cleared up before we can go any further.
So, are we (on another site) as Michael's Army of Love wanting to show a united front in DOING something positive as a group in Michael's name to make a change in the world? Or are we want to go on just doing stuff in our own personal lives as individuals? If we want to act as a group, donating really seems the best way to start. It's not as if we all live next door to each other and can arrange to physically help together!
I wish I didn't have to be away this weekend - but trust you'll all thrash this out and reach an amicable decision!
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned too much emphasis is put on 'donating money'. I'd rather put the emphasis on actual acting - putting effort into doing something for another person, really helping people by putting your shoulder to the wheel. I think that will make a bigger change than donating a couple of bucks every week.
In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
That is not something we can do together, simply because we live thousands of miles apart from each other. The donating is only a part of that website, the rest should be used to educate and motivate others and besides that we all need to start acting in our own personal lives, if we didn't already. Many of us have already posted things you can do yourself to help others. Many charities also need volunteers besides donations and that is what we can point out on there as well. Yet they still rely on donations. This is something we can do as a group to show others what can be done when you unite. You said yesterday it's a good idea yourself, I don't understand why that should have changed. But if you have better ideas, please share.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned too much emphasis is put on 'donating money'. I'd rather put the emphasis on actual acting - putting effort into doing something for another person, really helping people by putting your shoulder to the wheel. I think that will make a bigger change than donating a couple of bucks every week.
In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
That is not something we can do together, simply because we live thousands of miles apart from each other. The donating is only a part of that website, the rest should be used to educate and motivate others and besides that we all need to start acting in our own personal lives, if we didn't already. Many of us have already posted things you can do yourself to help others. Many charities also need volunteers besides donations and that is what we can point out on there as well. Yet they still rely on donations. This is something we can do as a group to show others what can be done when you unite. You said yesterday it's a good idea yourself, I don't understand why that should have changed. But if you have better ideas, please share.
I think Mo just did.
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Chappie
In that way we still need to raise money, so I don't get it. What we are going to do with the money is step 2, I only want people on the same page for the site, and someone who will raise his or her hand to manage the website.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Mo Said: I'd rather put the emphasis on actual acting - putting effort into doing something for another person, really helping people by putting your shoulder to the wheel. I think that will make a bigger change than donating a couple of bucks every week.
She continued with: In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
Yes I get that and that's step 2. If we can't even get on one page about even creating a website, and no one will volunteer to manage it, we can forget such a logistically challenged project. This thread is simply to ask people if they agree on the domain name and idea of a website and how we are going to implement that is a next step. I get a negative vibe after the reactions that makes me reluctant to the idea now. It seems we are always focussing on the negative stuff and not on the positive. I never focussed on donating, I asked if the overall idea of a website with donating as a PART of it (to whatever cause which we will focuss on later) was something others would agree on and what they think of the domain.
So far there hasn't been anyone who raised his/her hand to volunteer for the management of it. If necessary I would do it myself, but in that case not from here, because I know that in that case I will be the center of negative blogs and I really don't feel like that after 16 months of negativity. So again: can someone please raise his or her hand? Maybe we can start there and after that see how we are going to do this. Managing transport and logistics of something like this is a lot of work and most of us won't have the time for that. There are foundations that manage that for you, I don't think it's a good idea if one of us would do that, for the same reason I don't think it's a good idea one of us managing the donations. If something goes wrong in whatever way that person won't have a life on the net anymore. But again, that's the next step. For now it would be nice to have some positiveness about the overall idea. After that we can focus on what we will support and in what way. Some foundations rely on donations as in $$ for research and medical supplies for example, others like orphanages could probably need goods more.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I really like the idea of having an "educational/ advice" web where we can post articles to build awareness. I love that concept of exchanging advice (I did that on myspace, in my blog).
Regarding donations to charities, I am not pro having an scrow account. I rather prefer to list trustful charity sites for people to donate as they wish to who they wish.
The best, in my experience, is to exchange links/ banners between charity organizations.
Once someone clicks on the charity banner chosen inside the armyoflove site, the donor is directed to that site and proceeds to make the donation.
Donations are a private issue. And also, "haters" will see the picture in a malicious way as if we would like to get money from people.
On the other hand, those charity webs have our banner and people get to read our articles.
There is no cost from any side, is based on trust and good will <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Also, we can´t use Michaels name, i believe, for legal reasons. It will need to be expressed in the declaration that we are just moved by his message and in no way we are using his name for profit.
Well, and this, is my opinion <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Thanks for taking mine in consideration as well.
Good points Gema, and yes there will be people who if they knew about it would claim we're being suckered into handing over money. I personally thought it was a good idea but if it's going to cause disharmony and uneasiness that's not what we want. What about if we all tried to either sponsor a third world child, set up a monthly donation to Water Aid(in my country it's only £2 a month and does so much good), Save the Children (again very small amounts are required), or the countless other charities out there. I've been donating every month since I was 16 to Save The Children for their campaign to stop children being used as soldiers, but have always wanted to sponsor a third world child too. As for me children are the most important thing in the world that would be my choice but I know there are others who would rather donate to animal causes or to the Red Cross or whatever. If there are any doubts or questions among members regarding the charity Escrow account maybe we should take a vote of some kind. I know that nobody here has sinister intentions but unfortunately the world has taught us to be cynical and I really do think we all have to be on the same page and not alienate anyone.
Another thing I would like to add, is to set a goal or mission each month and promote it.
Then we could write about the achievements and inspire more people to enrolled in the same mission.
Everybody is useful and have something great to offer and can be fun.
Just an example;
A couple of years ago I enrolled in a knitting project ( <!-- s --><!-- s --> what!, i like to knitt)where many people were asked to knitt children clothes, as many as they could and after a certain date for the collection, all of the clothes were sent to the charity chosen. It was fun and very inspiring, and anyone could be anywhere in the world.
I can get carried away, so many projects I have been involved in to give me many ideas <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
What's wrong with knitting!? <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I knit too and I cross stitch, my profile pic is actually of a portrait I stitched when I actually believed (very briefly) that Michael was gone. I intended to stitch 1958-2009 on it but something wouldn't let me, I instinctively felt I couldn't but didn't know why at the time. I do now! I stitch cards to sell for charity sometimes and I know there are lots of us who could use our talents in some way. I'll support the charity account if we decide to go ahead but again I think if some people are going to feel uneasy with it there has to be a deciding vote to gauge the amount of members for it and those against it.
I am opting to vote for the scrow account as well. I see that can cause drama and people (haters) can be really a pain in the neck giving bad propaganda. Will be to double fight, for charity and to prove that we are not after money.
Comments
I think that if i ever happen to manage to give something, having my name on the list would possibly make other people feel uncomfortable and so embarrass me at the same time...
I think it has to remain anonymous. If you have a will to give something, the pride you get from it must remain YOURS.
As kind and giving it can be the first thing a few members posted like voice and bec is that bad things can happen from doing something like this and i tend to agree but Souza & mo does have the right & ability though to start a site thats seperated from this site and do what she does there, its not related to this site so it doesnt affect this site.
I am a kind and giving person, some know this first hand, so im all into helping others, and I agree that this is a thoughtful idea and thats why i gave my input, if souza & mo want to help a charity then so be it but as long as you all know it cant be attached to this site in any way, I and they do not need any legal issues brought because of charitable donations.
Sometimes being caring and giving leads others to get the wrong IMPRESSION and then things fall apart from there when they shouldnt.
I get what you mean bec, and I must say that at first I also felt a little offended. But I do everything I can and I know that myself, that's enough for me. We can do a lot of good with it and that is what's important, not what someone else thinks of us or any blogger on the internet that needs to get a life and do something with it instead of slandering someone else. I also think some will donate just to seek approval or to please Mike and I have to say that if that's what it takes to get people donate, then fine with me. If they are only doing it for him and not because they will feel better themselves, it would be sad but at least they will donate and therefore do something good for someone else. It's still their own choice and most of us on here are mature enough to make our own decisions. I don't need approval from anyone to do anything. TS is apparently happy with the subforums but I think that's not enough. It's a good way to make people aware of the numerous charities, but that's all. I am afraid it will bleed to death again once people have calmed down. It's about showing what you can do when you unite and which other people you can inspire to join you. I don't want attention drawn to me personally, hence I registered the domain anonymously, but I would like to draw attention to us as a group to show what can be done if we 'raise our voice as one' and I would like the site to get that many visitors that we would be able to donate $5,000,- to a charity each week.
I don't want any negativity around it though, that's why I said I won't manage the site if we go through with this. Some people seem to get off on discrediting us and find whatever to make sure they can write some new blog about that. I don't care if they do that about me because they can all kiss my butt, but I don't want this cause dragged through the mud and therefore it's not a good idea if either me, Badkolo or Mo are affiliated with this site.
I also agree that everything should stay anonymous, as it is on here as well. I never feel comfortable with personal info on the web, same goes for this. And some people are simply not able to donate because they don't have the financial means. But what they can do is volunteer to help charities by lending a hand or professional skills.
I really want everyone on the same page with this or it's better to stop it right here because we will only get discussions about it and that's not what we want.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned too much emphasis is put on 'donating money'. I'd rather put the emphasis on actual acting - putting effort into doing something for another person, really helping people by putting your shoulder to the wheel. I think that will make a bigger change than donating a couple of bucks every week.
In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
So, are we (on another site) as Michael's Army of Love wanting to show a united front in DOING something positive as a group in Michael's name to make a change in the world? Or are we want to go on just doing stuff in our own personal lives as individuals? If we want to act as a group, donating really seems the best way to start. It's not as if we all live next door to each other and can arrange to physically help together!
I wish I didn't have to be away this weekend - but trust you'll all thrash this out and reach an amicable decision!
See you soon. xx
TS clearly wrote to THINK for yourself, and not blindly follow someone.
You don't need TS his approval for the choices you make.
[youtube:2xd1wal0]
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Chappie
That is not something we can do together, simply because we live thousands of miles apart from each other. The donating is only a part of that website, the rest should be used to educate and motivate others and besides that we all need to start acting in our own personal lives, if we didn't already. Many of us have already posted things you can do yourself to help others. Many charities also need volunteers besides donations and that is what we can point out on there as well. Yet they still rely on donations. This is something we can do as a group to show others what can be done when you unite. You said yesterday it's a good idea yourself, I don't understand why that should have changed. But if you have better ideas, please share.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I think Mo just did.
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Chappie
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."She continued with: In case people insist on keeping the emphasis on donating money, I'd rather find out i.e. what goods an orphanage really needs, raise money for it, buy the goods and have them shipped to them. That way you are sure the money ends up right where it's needed and they will get what they really need.
Chappie
So far there hasn't been anyone who raised his/her hand to volunteer for the management of it. If necessary I would do it myself, but in that case not from here, because I know that in that case I will be the center of negative blogs and I really don't feel like that after 16 months of negativity. So again: can someone please raise his or her hand? Maybe we can start there and after that see how we are going to do this. Managing transport and logistics of something like this is a lot of work and most of us won't have the time for that. There are foundations that manage that for you, I don't think it's a good idea if one of us would do that, for the same reason I don't think it's a good idea one of us managing the donations. If something goes wrong in whatever way that person won't have a life on the net anymore. But again, that's the next step. For now it would be nice to have some positiveness about the overall idea. After that we can focus on what we will support and in what way. Some foundations rely on donations as in $$ for research and medical supplies for example, others like orphanages could probably need goods more.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I really like the idea of having an "educational/ advice" web where we can post articles to build awareness. I love that concept of exchanging advice (I did that on myspace, in my blog).
Regarding donations to charities, I am not pro having an scrow account. I rather prefer to list trustful charity sites for people to donate as they wish to who they wish.
The best, in my experience, is to exchange links/ banners between charity organizations.
Once someone clicks on the charity banner chosen inside the armyoflove site, the donor is directed to that site and proceeds to make the donation.
Donations are a private issue. And also, "haters" will see the picture in a malicious way as if we would like to get money from people.
On the other hand, those charity webs have our banner and people get to read our articles.
There is no cost from any side, is based on trust and good will <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Also, we can´t use Michaels name, i believe, for legal reasons. It will need to be expressed in the declaration that we are just moved by his message and in no way we are using his name for profit.
Well, and this, is my opinion <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> Thanks for taking mine in consideration as well.
Another thing I would like to add, is to set a goal or mission each month and promote it.
Then we could write about the achievements and inspire more people to enrolled in the same mission.
Everybody is useful and have something great to offer and can be fun.
Just an example;
A couple of years ago I enrolled in a knitting project ( <!-- s
I can get carried away, so many projects I have been involved in to give me many ideas <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->