I don't think anyone is saying she is being fraudulent. I don't think that this means the DNA is fake either, it just isn't legally acceptable so it won't legally establish that Eliza is Vernon's daughter or that Jesse is Elvis.
The DNA may very well be from the Presley's and Jesse but if it hasn't been collected in a manner that is acceptable to the court then it won't prove the case legally and the case will be dismissed. If the judge accepts the DNA evidence, it sets a good case for that to be overturned on appeal.
I know what the difference is between legal DNA evidence and non-legal. But fraud is implied in the thread and that to me is enough. I wanted to be clear about that because to me that's wrong.
I do think it's important we don't jump to conclusions or accuse anyone of anything, because we simply don't know. I don't see anything wrong with talking about it though (respectfully) and investigating (respectfully).
Let's just wait and see what happens. Surely there has to be many aspects to all of this that we do not know, therefore we can't really judge any of it. I think Eliza is telling the truth about DNA, and I hope that her evidence is allowed in court. I would guess that most don't think she's a fraud, they are just afraid that nothing will come of the case because of this, and that we won't have an Elvis "Bam", which doesn't help with this hoax at all, you know? You'd think we'd all have learned to be a bit more patient by now... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I thank you Souza for bringing another view to counteract and balance. I am saddened that Eliza feels alienated.
What I'm concerned about is our own people who were alienated when the Elvis/MJ parallells started in TIAI. We lost some excellent members and it hurts me to consider that it was for no good reason. The mention of money clouds issues and colours everything and yet it is impossible to accomplish much without it.
I for one will sit and watch this play out, without passing judgment. As for adoption issues, my mother was, and those scars run deep to this day in her 78 year old soul.
I must add that I hope talk of money does not lead to trouble with our Army of L.O.V.E. site thats underway.
Eliza already has the evidence herself which she filed in court accompanied with a sworn statement where the samples came from. Jesse's samples might have been from anyone, but if he relates to both sides of Elvis' family tree, he is either Elvis or Elvis' brother, who died at birth.
Like Puff already said – neither the people who mailed the items containing DNA to Eliza nor Eliza herself can swear where these samples came from, as through the shipping process they both lost sight of the items. They will never be able to prove where it came from because it went through too many hands. Besides that, since Eliza needs Jesse’s sample to prove that Vernon is her father, that sample will have to be a Chain of Custody DNA test in order to be admissible evidence.
The law states the requirements evidence has to meet in order to be admissible in a court of law. In case the evidence doesn’t meet these requirements, it’s inadmissible. When it comes to using DNA evidence in a court of law, a Chain of Custody test is required.
No one of us has ever seen the evidence so formally we don't even know it exists, we only know it was filed and that it was reason enough to open the estate.
The “Order Reopening Estate” states that the reason to reopen Vernon’s estate was:
“A. That proper process be issued upon the surviving heirs of Vernon E. Presley; the Clerk is hereby directed to cause Summons to be issued and serve upon all known heirs of Vernon E. Presley.”
The “Order Reopening Estate” also states that:
“This cause came to be heard on October 8, 2008 upon the sworn Petition of Eliza A. Presley, a nonresident of Shelby County, Tennessee, to Reopen the Estate of Vernon E. Presley, who died a legal resident of Shelby County, Tennessee, to determine Heirship, and to Redistribute the Net Estate, from all of which it appears:”
Nowhere does the “Order Reopening Estate” states that the Probate Court of Shelby County reopened Vernon’s estate based on the submitted DNA evidence. It is possible that they have reopened it because Eliza testified to have DNA evidence, but since Probate Court can not rule on paternity and heirship, the only thing they could do was reopen the estate to establish a proper process in which Vernon’s heir were able to participate, and leave the assessment of the evidence to the Chancery Court.
There have been many blogs and threads on Elvis forums already about the validity of the DNA evidence, so this is really nothing new.
So what you’re saying is that you knew this all along. As you can see by the replies this IS new to our members and was also new to me, so we would have really appreciated it had you shared your knowledge with all of us from the moment you were aware of this.
The fact that it is not legal evidence, does not mean that it is not evidence. No one is opposing her evidence, they oppose her case claiming it has been too long ago. If the evidence was false, the estate would have opposed the evidence and would have made sure the case would have been dismissed by the court if they don't want her to proceed.
First of all – we can only go by what Mayoras says what is written in William Bradley’s Motion for Summery Judgement. Second – since the submitted DNA evidence is lacking Chain of Custody there’s not really a reason to oppose it, as by law it’s inadmissible. It was not until now that a Conference is scheduled that there is the need for the judge to study the case and the submitted evidence.
As soon as someone will oppose her evidence, they need to prove she is wrong and then the required tests will have to be done.
The DNA evidence she submitted has no Chain of Custody and is therefore inadmissible. No one will have to prove she is wrong. Again: the law states the requirements evidence has to meet in order to be admissible in a court of law. In case the evidence doesn’t meet these requirements, it’s inadmissible.
As to Eliza’s reaction about the replies in this thread: If her whole case would have been presented crystal clear, everyone would have known right from the start that the DNA evidence she submitted is not Legal Evidence. After discovering that this is not the case people felt deceived, and therefore I understand people questioning her motives, airing their opinion about it and, although there should have been no space for this in a forensic investigation, emotions kicking in.
I did NOT say that Eliza was NOT telling the truth about the DNA.
BUT....she got the DNA in 2002 from the very same person that asked her in 2009 to stop the court case.
And if that someone that supplied you with the DNA that gave you the proof of who really your father is, is asking you very, very urgently to stop/drop the case, it does not show any RESPECT for that person.
Then you are only thinking of your own gain.
Her fortune will come from being the person who proves that Elvis is alive. Her options will be endless...movie deals, book deals, interviews, etc.
Her drive is to prove that Elvis is alive for her personal gain.
If she loves the one she calls her half brother and would never do anything to hurt him why is she doing something against his will?
Is this how you treat the one you love?
I dont think so because it shows no RESPECT at all.
SO I CHALLENGE ELIZA TO COME TO THIS THREAD AND POST THE REAL REASONS SHE HAS FOR PROCEEDING THE COURT CASE!
[youtube:3n7e5rvq]
Chappie
Is anyone going to ask the probate lawyer about why he has written, the articles concerning this case, the way he has?
This lawyer, is obviously aware of the requirements of "Chain of Evidence". He would also know that these requirements haven't been met. He would also be aware that the DNA isn't admissible and that the case will most likely be dismissed or overturned on appeal and yet he has misrepresented that (or neglected to mention it) and is deceiving people about this case in his blog.
Is anyone going to ask Eliza about this and why she is asking for donations?
If she knows that the case will be dismissed because the DNA is inadmissible and is than asking for money to support her, this is very questionable behaviour.
Mo, bravo very in-depth investigation. thank you for sharing this with us all. I also sadly must admit that I failed the test if this is what it was all about. <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
We live and learn!
I have dropped a few lines to Andrew Mayoras asking him to explain how the DNA evidence was being used in the case and whether it could be used as evidence in a court of law (Chain of custody requirement). We shall see if I get a reply!
Mo has done a great job in highlighting some potential gaps in the case but there are many more questions we need answers to before we can draw any meaningful conclusions.
1. Linda Hood was supporting the Eliza case until at least the 1st November. Why did she change her mind? Jesse said so! Then what made Jesse suddenly change his mind?
2. Why would Andrew Mayoras distort the Truth on purpose?
3. Why would Donald Yates (Owner of DNA Consultants) state publicly "I think the DNA taken from the person named Jessie can only be DNA of Elvis Presley" ?
4. Why was Linda Hood playing Hide & seek with the 9th August TS re-direct?
5. Why is Eliza rational in seeking to be recognised as Elvis half sister?
6. What are TS intentions with the Elvis case?
I do not have answers to any of those questions at the moment, all I could do is ASSUME, and I won't even go there! As Sarahli suggested, we may have to wait until the 14th to get some answers... or maybe TS will help us a bit.
It seems to me very good research of Mo, there are many things that I did not know. With respect to Eliza, she and her lawyer should be aware that the chain of custody is not fulfilled and that his case will most likely be admissible is not a court, I'm not going to judge Eliza, I guess that will have the responses.
Chappie wrote what is valid, maybe it will give DNA evidence to know who is really his father, and everything ended there.
And with regard to TS, well he himself wrote, we should not believe everything that TS writes, by the fact that TS .. not believe everything you write, learning to think for oneself, to be critical to investigate everything you read here (as well as the investigation of Mo) and elsewhere .. I think I have read TS post once again.
I apologize if the information was posted already and I missed it but I have a question. Why can't the cousins that provided the DNA samples in the first place just provide a new sample? Leaving Jesse totally aside, are these two other people (maternal and paternal Elvis cousins) still alive? This would negate the old samples completely and effectively prove Eliza is related to Vernon Presley, wouldn't it?
I also vote wait and see, but I have no back round in legal-ese to be confident to form any kind of opinion yet.
Is anyone going to ask the probate lawyer about why he has written, the articles concerning this case, the way he has?
This lawyer, is obviously aware of the requirements of "Chain of Evidence". He would also know that these requirements haven't been met. He would also be aware that the DNA isn't admissible and that the case will most likely be dismissed or overturned on appeal and yet he has misrepresented that (or neglected to mention it) and is deceiving people about this case in his blog.
Is anyone going to ask Eliza about this and why she is asking for donations?
If she knows that the case will be dismissed because the DNA is inadmissible and is than asking for money to support her, this is very questionable behaviour.
Mo, bravo very in-depth investigation. thank you for sharing this with us all. I also sadly must admit that I failed the test if this is what it was all about. <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
We live and learn!
I have dropped a few lines to Andrew Mayoras asking him to explain how the DNA evidence was being used in the case and whether it could be used as evidence in a court of law (Chain of custody requirement). We shall see if I get a reply!
Mo has done a great job in highlighting some potential gaps in the case but there are many more questions we need answers to before we can draw any meaningful conclusions.
1. Linda Hood was supporting the Eliza case until at least the 1st November. Why did she change her mind? Jesse said so! Then what made Jesse suddenly change his mind?
2. Why would Andrew Mayoras distort the Truth on purpose?
3. Why would Donald Yates (Owner of DNA Consultants) state publicly "I think the DNA taken from the person named Jessie can only be DNA of Elvis Presley" ?
4. Why was Linda Hood playing Hide & seek with the 9th August TS re-direct?
5. Why is Eliza rational in seeking to be recognised as Elvis half sister?
6. What are TS intentions with the Elvis case?
I do not have answers to any of those questions at the moment, all I could do is ASSUME, and I won't even go there! As Sarahli suggested, we may have to wait until the 14th to get some answers... or maybe TS will help us a bit.
With L.O.V.E
1. Linda has never supported the case, but she gave the update because the Jesse's DNA involved in it.
If you will note, I have stated a number of times, when posting an update on the case that my only interest in this case was because it involved Jesse's DNA. I have not posted one word of update about anyone involved in this case
2. He is a lawyer, and as I've already said it's the lawyer job.............
3.Because it's the truth, we are not saying that the DNA results are fake....
4. I don't know, but it could be a coincidence after all....
5. Only Eliza knows the answer to this question..
6. I'd LOVE to know them too.... but I have my own opinion on that...
Nobody talked about fraud, IMO it's clear that behind this case there is not only the willing to know the truth about her father...She knew already, after the DNA results,who her father is... so it's not hard to see what is the hidden truth....
I always thought that those DNA proofs were taken and accepted within the law to proceed with a court meeting.
Back to point 0 again?
I second this.
Mo you have proven through investigation the concerns a number of us raised about the validity of the DNA evidence as described by A Mayoras and Eliza.
I have been wondering for a while whether MJ may be orchestrating the whole Linda/Eliza/Elvis/Mayoras story and if so with which intend?
-Revealing that Elvis did indeed hoax his Death whether the latter wants it or not.
-Adding an additional "twist" in the hoax production and getting us into a rabbit hole --- in a symbolic move to bury Elvis once more.
-Testing our capability in assessing information --- MO you passed the test!
The Eliza Presley court hearing being on the 14th December, on the same day the new album is due to be released is more than a mere coincidence IMO....
This is all puzzling!
With L.O.V.E
You are absolutely right and that's why the song is called Breaking News.. It may have something to do with it. We just have to wait and see. i commend Mo wonderful investigation.
5. Why is Eliza rational in seeking to be recognised as Elvis half sister?
I have the same question TheRunningGirl, and I have already addressed this question in another thread last week.
In her Complaint to Determine Parentage and Heirship Eliza is not only asking to be recognized as the biological daughter of Vernon, but specifically also asks to be recognized as the half sister of Elvis as well. To me it seems only logical that once she is recognized as Vernon's daughter, she is automatically recognized as Elvis' half sister, so why ask specifically to be recognized as the half sister of Elvis as well? Why does she want a final court ruling to state she's the half sister of Elvis Presley?
I'm very sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings by stating my opinion, but in my opinion more emphasis is put on "proving that Elvis is alive" than on proving that Vernon Presley is Eliza's father.
I keep asking myself over and over again if Elvis would want it to be proven that he is still alive. Then three answers keep popping up:
[li]Jesse wrote a letter to the Attorney General supporting Dr. Hinton and refuting the mail fraud claims. He included the following in his letter:
"Sir, I don't know if you believe in my continued existence or not, but if I continue to expose myself like I did in the book, I will be eliminated very easily. Pure and simple as that"[/li]
[li]Had Jesse been wanted to be identified as Elvis, he simply could have submitted a Chain of Custody DNA test.[/li]
[li]TS' statement in Update #6: Even now, Elvis/Jesse is not interested in the spotlight; he wants to remain in privacy.[/li]
According to the above three answers Jesse is taking safety precautions. I can't help but have uncomfortable feelings about this court case as a final court ruling could jeopardize Jesse's safety. If this is the case, then the next question arises:
Is legally proving that Vernon is Eliza's father, if this has already been proven by the DNA test results, worth putting her brother's safety at stake? If so, then why?
IMO, TS was only interested in the Eliza's verdict that would have proved that Elvis is alive to the world so people could see the Elvis and Mj parallels and realized that Mj could be alive as well.... the whole TS statement, is:
"Even now, Elvis/Jesse is not interested in the spotlight; he wants to remain in privacy. At least for Elvis, the concept of “bam” refers to the final court ruling on Eliza’s case, and/or the media reporting that he is still alive (rather than Elvis himself performing again, or even being seen by the public)."
So bringing the Elvis alive thing to the media attention would have not harmed his saftey as well and his privacy..? Maybe the media will not track him down, but they will start an HUGE hunt man...
TS even supported the media rally, we tweeted ElvisandMjdotcom and <!-- m -->http://www.elvisandmj.com<!-- m --> redirected to update 6 and the entire Eliza/Elvis story...
He even wrote:
And speaking of MJ planning intentional parallels with the Elvis “death”: although some responded very positively to <!-- m -->http://www.ElvisAndMJ.com<!-- m -->, and the Elvis/Eliza developments, unfortunately many others did not.
Furthermore, even though Elvis fans have been saying he’s alive for 33 years, yet only recently has DNA evidence surfaced that scientifically proves Elvis lives! We don’t need to be intimidated anymore, by those who ridicule Elvis being alive as a crazy “conspiracy theory”; we can challenge them with hard DNA evidence, the Eliza court case, no Elvis relative has provided DNA to disprove Eliza, etc.
So if this was a test, we should have challenged the opposers with something that was merely a test for the MJ hoax believers...?
IMO TS didn't know anything about the lack of the Chain of Custody, and its consequences for the case, probably he saw the Eliza's case as a huge opportunity to connect even more the two hoaxes and a concrete proof to demonstrate that, with all the MJ/Elvis parallels, MJ is alive...
I am not a lawyer so I don't know if the court can compel the Presley family members to submit to a legally accepted DNA test, if they don't want to do that willingly, if the case is dismissed or overturned on appeal. Does anyone know if there is a legal precedent for that? Is anyone in the Presley camp willingly agreeing to a DNA test to support Eliza's case? Is Jesse willingly submitting DNA to support the case?
I'm going to answer your questions with a question:
How can someone, who is legally declared dead, be subpoenaed to submit a legally accepted DNA test?
Serenitys_Dream wrote:
I am not a lawyer so I don't know if the court can compel the Presley family members to submit to a legally accepted DNA test, if they don't want to do that willingly, if the case is dismissed or overturned on appeal. Does anyone know if there is a legal precedent for that? Is anyone in the Presley camp willingly agreeing to a DNA test to support Eliza's case? Is Jesse willingly submitting DNA to support the case?
I'm going to answer your questions with a question:
How can someone, who is legally declared dead, be subpoenaed to submit a legally accepted DNA test?
The whole process of Eliza is riddled with errors and inconsistencies and finally going to be rejected by that, then my question is, why his lawyer did not say things as they really are?, Or both are aware of this and even so they try to move forward.
Eliza knows she is the daughter of Vernon Presley, but she wants to be known as the person who says that Elvis is alive?
And my personal opinion, so don't get me wrong again.
If I would have DNA prove that someone was my father.
That would be enough for me.
My search would be over.
But who am I.... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
But then again.....I guess it's all about the Money....is it Honey?
Chappie
[youtube:b1rtbf9c]
You know, that is a very good point that I never thought of before but should have! Because I just met my biological father earlier this year. We have not had a paternity test. My mother always knew who my dad was but I just never met him. For one thing, I look just like him, so a test really isn't needed. I also am not sure what legal rights (if any) I would have to his money? It never even crossed my mind because all I wanted was to meet him. Now, my case is a bit different though because my father is still alive and is not a celebrity. But you would think that just knowing who her dad is would be sufficient. Ahhh.... my head hurts!
Exactly that should suffice. But than if this doesn't go to trial how are we ever going to know that Elvis is alive? I think Elvis is tired of being incognito and wants to resurface again. It must be lonely to be all alone away from your family. Probably what he wants to do is the little time he has left, he wants to spend it with the grandkids and his daughter. Don't forget he is 77 yrs old. oops look at that the 7 coming out again. <!-- s --><!-- s --> This is my opinion.
Okay so I have read and tried to understand something. Basically I understand that it is the way the DNA has been collected that will cause problems? If so it does not make the DNA sample to be a fake. Now and sorry if I seem stupid but I don't understand that chain of custody thing. I mean that if the DNA sample has been proven to be from Elvis and if it matches Eliza's... what the chain of custody is for? Is it just about a legal procedure?
Chain of Custody in DNA testing means that the person who has submitted the DNA has to identify himself by showing a government-issued ID to an independent third party who is certified to collect the test. Then the whole process of handling, shipping, processing and analyzing the DNA sample has to be documented, meaning every step, from taking the swap up until the final analysis, must be written down and signed for by the persons who were in possession of the sample all through the process. Without Chain of Custody the court has no idea about the identity of the individual who was tested and who had access to the sample while being processed.
In this case the DNA sample has NOT been proven to be from Elvis, because since there is no Chain of Custody the person who submitted the DNA sample is NOT identified. This in simple words means that a court of law says this DNA sample could belong to just about everyone - from Bill Clinton to Bart Simpson.
In this case it's proven that there is a family connection between the submitted DNA samples, but since there is no Chain of Custody these DNA samples can't be submitted as evidence of Eliza's claim, because there is no evidence of these samples belonging to the Presleys.
Mo I would like to ask you a question. Eliza has a lawyer, how come he did not advise her about this chain of Custody?
I think that would have been the first step to the right direction. Unless nothing is true. Again maybe it is all lies again.
Okay so I have read and tried to understand something. Basically I understand that it is the way the DNA has been collected that will cause problems? If so it does not make the DNA sample to be a fake. Now and sorry if I seem stupid but I don't understand that chain of custody thing. I mean that if the DNA sample has been proven to be from Elvis and if it matches Eliza's... what the chain of custody is for? Is it just about a legal procedure?
Chain of Custody in DNA testing means that the person who has submitted the DNA has to identify himself by showing a government-issued ID to an independent third party who is certified to collect the test. Then the whole process of handling, shipping, processing and analyzing the DNA sample has to be documented, meaning every step, from taking the swap up until the final analysis, must be written down and signed for by the persons who were in possession of the sample all through the process. Without Chain of Custody the court has no idea about the identity of the individual who was tested and who had access to the sample while being processed.
In this case the DNA sample has NOT been proven to be from Elvis, because since there is no Chain of Custody the person who submitted the DNA sample is NOT identified. This in simple words means that a court of law says this DNA sample could belong to just about everyone - from Bill Clinton to Bart Simpson.
In this case it's proven that there is a family connection between the submitted DNA samples, but since there is no Chain of Custody these DNA samples can't be submitted as evidence of Eliza's claim, because there is no evidence of these samples belonging to the Presleys.
Mo I would like to ask you a question. Eliza has a lawyer, how come he did not advise her about this chain of Custody?
I think that would have been the first step to the right direction. Unless nothing is true. Again maybe it is all lies again.
You will need ask Eliza and her lawyer about this, I can't answer your question.
Maybe that Elvis himself will show up finally? I feel like I'm losing my mind piece by piece
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
In this case the only option we have is the hope that the court's discretion, and that explanation has TS.
Well, TS hasn't given explanations yet, and I think it's not fair because the Eliza thing has a BIG part in his redirections and in posts, but he told us " Think for yourself" and if you re-read update 6 an 9/9/10 post you'll get the right answer...
Well, TS hasn't given explanations yet, and I think it's not fair because the Eliza thing has a BIG part in his redirections and in posts, but he told us " Think for yourself" and if you re-read update 6 an 9/9/10 post you'll get the right answer...
And I hate to be the one to say it but lots of people did think for themselves and didn't want to be a part of the whole Elvis/MJ thing.
I am not good at laws and I don't understand very well what's happening.
So, the idea is:
Eliza's DNA evidence is a false DNA and so the DNA she has from this Jesse does not fit with the Presley family? That would mean that Jesse is not Elvis?
I am really not good at laws, if someone could please explain in lay man's words what all this mean?
I can say that this whole Elvis thing never convinced me, after I read it, but I didn't dismiss the possibility, as anything can be possible after all. But this whole story was simply hard to believe.
I simply never believed that the woman who claims to be in contact with Jesse (Elvis) told the truth. I mean it would mean to believe someone just because. I never do that.
The main problem I see is that TS has been insisting with this Elvis story for so long, at some moments it just turned into a whole Elvis situation rather than Michael's. TS kept insisting that as long as dr. Hinton and Linda (?) are Elvis' informers, then TS and TMZ are Michael's informers. Is that right? If this woman and dr. Hinton are two big liars then what's the conclusion? I don't jumpt at any conclusion, I just say what we all wonder right now.
And no, I don't agree that the whole Elvis/MJ thing that TS took the time to post was a "test". He wouldn't have put so much work in just a "test". "Think for yourself" would have been enough. Not to post so much about Elvis, give redirections on it.So this Elvis thing will clarify all.
I am not good at laws and I don't understand very well what's happening.
So, the idea is:
Eliza's DNA evidence is a false DNA and so the DNA she has from this Jesse does not fit with the Presley family? That would mean that Jesse is not Elvis?
No, we are not saying that the DNA results are fakes, please re-read it.
The DNA evidences are inadmissible in court because of the lack of the chain of custody...
I am not good at laws and I don't understand very well what's happening.
So, the idea is:
Eliza's DNA evidence is a false DNA and so the DNA she has from this Jesse does not fit with the Presley family? That would mean that Jesse is not Elvis?
No, we are not saying that the DNA results are fakes, please re-read it.
The DNA evidences are inadmissible in court because of the lack of the chain of custody...
That's why I ask for an explanation more in lay man terms, I simply don't understand all these legal things. Then how is it?
I am not good at laws and I don't understand very well what's happening.
So, the idea is:
Eliza's DNA evidence is a false DNA and so the DNA she has from this Jesse does not fit with the Presley family? That would mean that Jesse is not Elvis?
No, we are not saying that the DNA results are fakes, please re-read it.
The DNA evidences are inadmissible in court because of the lack of the chain of custody...
That's why I ask for an explanation more in lay man terms, I simply don't understand all these legal things. Then how is it?
Anna, I already explained this to Sarahli on page 2 of this thread:
Okay so I have read and tried to understand something. Basically I understand that it is the way the DNA has been collected that will cause problems? If so it does not make the DNA sample to be a fake. Now and sorry if I seem stupid but I don't understand that chain of custody thing. I mean that if the DNA sample has been proven to be from Elvis and if it matches Eliza's... what the chain of custody is for? Is it just about a legal procedure?
Chain of Custody in DNA testing means that the person who has submitted the DNA has to identify himself by showing a government-issued ID to an independent third party who is certified to collect the test. Then the whole process of handling, shipping, processing and analyzing the DNA sample has to be documented, meaning every step, from taking the swap up until the final analysis, must be written down and signed for by the persons who were in possession of the sample all through the process. Without Chain of Custody the court has no idea about the identity of the individual who was tested and who had access to the sample while being processed.
In this case the DNA sample has NOT been proven to be from Elvis, because since there is no Chain of Custody the person who submitted the DNA sample is NOT identified. This in simple words means that a court of law says this DNA sample could belong to just about everyone - from Bill Clinton to Bart Simpson.
In this case it's proven that there is a family connection between the submitted DNA samples, but since there is no Chain of Custody these DNA samples can't be submitted as evidence of Eliza's claim, because there is no evidence of these samples belonging to the Presleys.
I did NOT say that Eliza was NOT telling the truth about the DNA.
BUT....she got the DNA in 2002 from the very same person that asked her in 2009 to stop the court case.
And if that someone that supplied you with the DNA that gave you the proof of who really your father is, is asking you very, very urgently to stop/drop the case, it does not show any RESPECT for that person.
Then you are only thinking of your own gain.
Her fortune will come from being the person who proves that Elvis is alive. Her options will be endless...movie deals, book deals, interviews, etc.
Her drive is to prove that Elvis is alive for her personal gain.
If she loves the one she calls her half brother and would never do anything to hurt him why is she doing something against his will?
Is this how you treat the one you love?
I dont think so because it shows no RESPECT at all.
SO I CHALLENGE ELIZA TO COME TO THIS THREAD AND POST THE REAL REASONS SHE HAS FOR PROCEEDING THE COURT CASE!
[youtube:24bete4c]
Chappie
You have a point chappie, but if this Jesse (Elvis ) wants her to stop the case then why did he send her his DNA ? He should have not volunteer. When I watched the video on youtube Elvis's doctor clearly said that he was alive, he faked his death. Eliza has the rights to find her true father, and from investigation she found out that she is Elivs half sister, I actually do see the ressemblance with Elvis, she does have his traits. I don't think she is doing it for money, because at the begining she did not know who her real father was, It could have been Joe blow from didilido. <!-- s --><!-- s --> So she did not wake up one day and said today I will say I am Elvis Presley half sister.. My question is Eliza has a lawyer, why didn't he tell her that she needed chain of custody? I think that should have been the first think he should have told her. We just have to wait and see what happens, I do wish the best for her. Blessings
Comments
I do think it's important we don't jump to conclusions or accuse anyone of anything, because we simply don't know. I don't see anything wrong with talking about it though (respectfully) and investigating (respectfully).
Let's just wait and see what happens. Surely there has to be many aspects to all of this that we do not know, therefore we can't really judge any of it. I think Eliza is telling the truth about DNA, and I hope that her evidence is allowed in court. I would guess that most don't think she's a fraud, they are just afraid that nothing will come of the case because of this, and that we won't have an Elvis "Bam", which doesn't help with this hoax at all, you know? You'd think we'd all have learned to be a bit more patient by now... <!-- s
What I'm concerned about is our own people who were alienated when the Elvis/MJ parallells started in TIAI. We lost some excellent members and it hurts me to consider that it was for no good reason. The mention of money clouds issues and colours everything and yet it is impossible to accomplish much without it.
I for one will sit and watch this play out, without passing judgment. As for adoption issues, my mother was, and those scars run deep to this day in her 78 year old soul.
I must add that I hope talk of money does not lead to trouble with our Army of L.O.V.E. site thats underway.
The law states the requirements evidence has to meet in order to be admissible in a court of law. In case the evidence doesn’t meet these requirements, it’s inadmissible. When it comes to using DNA evidence in a court of law, a Chain of Custody test is required.
The “Order Reopening Estate” states that the reason to reopen Vernon’s estate was:
The “Order Reopening Estate” also states that: Nowhere does the “Order Reopening Estate” states that the Probate Court of Shelby County reopened Vernon’s estate based on the submitted DNA evidence. It is possible that they have reopened it because Eliza testified to have DNA evidence, but since Probate Court can not rule on paternity and heirship, the only thing they could do was reopen the estate to establish a proper process in which Vernon’s heir were able to participate, and leave the assessment of the evidence to the Chancery Court.
So what you’re saying is that you knew this all along. As you can see by the replies this IS new to our members and was also new to me, so we would have really appreciated it had you shared your knowledge with all of us from the moment you were aware of this.
First of all – we can only go by what Mayoras says what is written in William Bradley’s Motion for Summery Judgement. Second – since the submitted DNA evidence is lacking Chain of Custody there’s not really a reason to oppose it, as by law it’s inadmissible. It was not until now that a Conference is scheduled that there is the need for the judge to study the case and the submitted evidence.
The DNA evidence she submitted has no Chain of Custody and is therefore inadmissible. No one will have to prove she is wrong. Again: the law states the requirements evidence has to meet in order to be admissible in a court of law. In case the evidence doesn’t meet these requirements, it’s inadmissible.
As to Eliza’s reaction about the replies in this thread: If her whole case would have been presented crystal clear, everyone would have known right from the start that the DNA evidence she submitted is not Legal Evidence. After discovering that this is not the case people felt deceived, and therefore I understand people questioning her motives, airing their opinion about it and, although there should have been no space for this in a forensic investigation, emotions kicking in.
BUT....she got the DNA in 2002 from the very same person that asked her in 2009 to stop the court case.
And if that someone that supplied you with the DNA that gave you the proof of who really your father is, is asking you very, very urgently to stop/drop the case, it does not show any RESPECT for that person.
Then you are only thinking of your own gain.
Her fortune will come from being the person who proves that Elvis is alive. Her options will be endless...movie deals, book deals, interviews, etc.
Her drive is to prove that Elvis is alive for her personal gain.
If she loves the one she calls her half brother and would never do anything to hurt him why is she doing something against his will?
Is this how you treat the one you love?
I dont think so because it shows no RESPECT at all.
SO I CHALLENGE ELIZA TO COME TO THIS THREAD AND POST THE REAL REASONS SHE HAS FOR PROCEEDING THE COURT CASE!
[youtube:3n7e5rvq]
Chappie
I have dropped a few lines to Andrew Mayoras asking him to explain how the DNA evidence was being used in the case and whether it could be used as evidence in a court of law (Chain of custody requirement). We shall see if I get a reply!
Mo has done a great job in highlighting some potential gaps in the case but there are many more questions we need answers to before we can draw any meaningful conclusions.
1. Linda Hood was supporting the Eliza case until at least the 1st November. Why did she change her mind? Jesse said so! Then what made Jesse suddenly change his mind?
2. Why would Andrew Mayoras distort the Truth on purpose?
3. Why would Donald Yates (Owner of DNA Consultants) state publicly "I think the DNA taken from the person named Jessie can only be DNA of Elvis Presley" ?
4. Why was Linda Hood playing Hide & seek with the 9th August TS re-direct?
5. Why is Eliza rational in seeking to be recognised as Elvis half sister?
6. What are TS intentions with the Elvis case?
I do not have answers to any of those questions at the moment, all I could do is ASSUME, and I won't even go there! As Sarahli suggested, we may have to wait until the 14th to get some answers... or maybe TS will help us a bit.
With L.O.V.E
Chappie wrote what is valid, maybe it will give DNA evidence to know who is really his father, and everything ended there.
And with regard to TS, well he himself wrote, we should not believe everything that TS writes, by the fact that TS .. not believe everything you write, learning to think for oneself, to be critical to investigate everything you read here (as well as the investigation of Mo) and elsewhere .. I think I have read TS post once again.
I also vote wait and see, but I have no back round in legal-ese to be confident to form any kind of opinion yet.
1. Linda has never supported the case, but she gave the update because the Jesse's DNA involved in it.
2. He is a lawyer, and as I've already said it's the lawyer job.............
3.Because it's the truth, we are not saying that the DNA results are fake....
4. I don't know, but it could be a coincidence after all....
5. Only Eliza knows the answer to this question..
6. I'd LOVE to know them too.... but I have my own opinion on that...
Nobody talked about fraud, IMO it's clear that behind this case there is not only the willing to know the truth about her father...She knew already, after the DNA results,who her father is... so it's not hard to see what is the hidden truth....
You are absolutely right and that's why the song is called Breaking News.. It may have something to do with it. We just have to wait and see. i commend Mo wonderful investigation.
I have the same question TheRunningGirl, and I have already addressed this question in another thread last week.
In her Complaint to Determine Parentage and Heirship Eliza is not only asking to be recognized as the biological daughter of Vernon, but specifically also asks to be recognized as the half sister of Elvis as well. To me it seems only logical that once she is recognized as Vernon's daughter, she is automatically recognized as Elvis' half sister, so why ask specifically to be recognized as the half sister of Elvis as well? Why does she want a final court ruling to state she's the half sister of Elvis Presley?
I'm very sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings by stating my opinion, but in my opinion more emphasis is put on "proving that Elvis is alive" than on proving that Vernon Presley is Eliza's father.
I keep asking myself over and over again if Elvis would want it to be proven that he is still alive. Then three answers keep popping up:
[li]Jesse wrote a letter to the Attorney General supporting Dr. Hinton and refuting the mail fraud claims. He included the following in his letter:
"Sir, I don't know if you believe in my continued existence or not, but if I continue to expose myself like I did in the book, I will be eliminated very easily. Pure and simple as that"[/li][li]Had Jesse been wanted to be identified as Elvis, he simply could have submitted a Chain of Custody DNA test.[/li]
[li]TS' statement in Update #6: Even now, Elvis/Jesse is not interested in the spotlight; he wants to remain in privacy.[/li]
According to the above three answers Jesse is taking safety precautions. I can't help but have uncomfortable feelings about this court case as a final court ruling could jeopardize Jesse's safety. If this is the case, then the next question arises:
Is legally proving that Vernon is Eliza's father, if this has already been proven by the DNA test results, worth putting her brother's safety at stake? If so, then why?
[youtube:1khwr2oz]
TS even supported the media rally, we tweeted ElvisandMjdotcom and <!-- m -->http://www.elvisandmj.com<!-- m --> redirected to update 6 and the entire Eliza/Elvis story...
He even wrote:
So if this was a test, we should have challenged the opposers with something that was merely a test for the MJ hoax believers...?
IMO TS didn't know anything about the lack of the Chain of Custody, and its consequences for the case, probably he saw the Eliza's case as a huge opportunity to connect even more the two hoaxes and a concrete proof to demonstrate that, with all the MJ/Elvis parallels, MJ is alive...
I'm going to answer your questions with a question:
How can someone, who is legally declared dead, be subpoenaed to submit a legally accepted DNA test?
The whole process of Eliza is riddled with errors and inconsistencies and finally going to be rejected by that, then my question is, why his lawyer did not say things as they really are?, Or both are aware of this and even so they try to move forward.
Eliza knows she is the daughter of Vernon Presley, but she wants to be known as the person who says that Elvis is alive?
Exactly that should suffice. But than if this doesn't go to trial how are we ever going to know that Elvis is alive? I think Elvis is tired of being incognito and wants to resurface again. It must be lonely to be all alone away from your family. Probably what he wants to do is the little time he has left, he wants to spend it with the grandkids and his daughter. Don't forget he is 77 yrs old. oops look at that the 7 coming out again. <!-- s
Mo I would like to ask you a question. Eliza has a lawyer, how come he did not advise her about this chain of Custody?
I think that would have been the first step to the right direction. Unless nothing is true. Again maybe it is all lies again.
You will need ask Eliza and her lawyer about this, I can't answer your question.
In this case the only option we have is the hope that the court's discretion, and that explanation has TS.
Well, TS hasn't given explanations yet, and I think it's not fair because the Eliza thing has a BIG part in his redirections and in posts, but he told us " Think for yourself" and if you re-read update 6 an 9/9/10 post you'll get the right answer...
And I hate to be the one to say it but lots of people did think for themselves and didn't want to be a part of the whole Elvis/MJ thing.
So, the idea is:
Eliza's DNA evidence is a false DNA and so the DNA she has from this Jesse does not fit with the Presley family? That would mean that Jesse is not Elvis?
I am really not good at laws, if someone could please explain in lay man's words what all this mean?
I can say that this whole Elvis thing never convinced me, after I read it, but I didn't dismiss the possibility, as anything can be possible after all. But this whole story was simply hard to believe.
I simply never believed that the woman who claims to be in contact with Jesse (Elvis) told the truth. I mean it would mean to believe someone just because. I never do that.
The main problem I see is that TS has been insisting with this Elvis story for so long, at some moments it just turned into a whole Elvis situation rather than Michael's. TS kept insisting that as long as dr. Hinton and Linda (?) are Elvis' informers, then TS and TMZ are Michael's informers. Is that right? If this woman and dr. Hinton are two big liars then what's the conclusion? I don't jumpt at any conclusion, I just say what we all wonder right now.
And no, I don't agree that the whole Elvis/MJ thing that TS took the time to post was a "test". He wouldn't have put so much work in just a "test". "Think for yourself" would have been enough. Not to post so much about Elvis, give redirections on it.So this Elvis thing will clarify all.
No, we are not saying that the DNA results are fakes, please re-read it.
The DNA evidences are inadmissible in court because of the lack of the chain of custody...
Anna, I already explained this to Sarahli on page 2 of this thread:
You have a point chappie, but if this Jesse (Elvis ) wants her to stop the case then why did he send her his DNA ? He should have not volunteer. When I watched the video on youtube Elvis's doctor clearly said that he was alive, he faked his death. Eliza has the rights to find her true father, and from investigation she found out that she is Elivs half sister, I actually do see the ressemblance with Elvis, she does have his traits. I don't think she is doing it for money, because at the begining she did not know who her real father was, It could have been Joe blow from didilido. <!-- s