There is no forum hoax, this is simply a childish argument between individuals with personal issues. Me guilty as charged and this needs to stop. It doesn't belong here and it has no goal other than indeed a total destruction of the forum.
I don't expect anyone to trust me, I have never asked anyone to trust me and to trust me as a person would be strange since none of you know me. The majority of the members are adults and are very capable to make judgements themselves.
If that means people want to know the 'truth' then fine, go and ask because I have nothing to hide, but I won't discuss private conversations with anyone. If people want to discuss 'Bob' then make a new thread, but I will not participate in it. I have made a promise and I don't like to betray someone's trust.
So in order to get this board back on track I want to say the following:
Mo, I already posted in another thread that I respect you as an admin of this board and as an investigator. I think we should make a truce. We clearly disagree on a lot and that is ok. I don't see why that should give problems. You are allowed to voice your opinion, but you should also allow me and others to question your findings. Same goes the other way around. I apologize I attacked you personally, I shouldn't have done that and I should have stayed with the subject. I admitted that was wrong already in the thread, but hereby again in this one. Things are changed and you and I will not have the same relationship as we had before, but I think, as we are both adults, that we could at least try to treat each other better from now on. I can let this all behind me without grudge and I hope you will be able to do the same, so that we can continue this site we both worked so hard for the past year. It also is not fair towards the members if we would let this escalade until the forum is dead. It's a year of investigation by so many members and it would be a shame to let that all die.
I am prepared to start over and forget all the issues starting now.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I hope this time your offer of a truce is accepted Souza but considering you already tried to make peace and things turned even nastier I would be surprised if you get a positive response. We do appreciate you trying though, it would be nice to have some harmony again even if it's just you guys being civil to each other and not actually friendly.
I hope this time your offer of a truce is accepted Souza but considering you already tried to make peace and things turned even nastier I would be surprised if you get a positive response. We do appreciate you trying though, it would be nice to have some harmony again even if it's just you guys being civil to each other and not actually friendly.
I still am positive that the tide can be turned, but if not, at least I tried. I can't do more than that.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Souza: Mo, I already posted in another thread that I respect you as an admin of this board and as an investigator. I think we should make a truce. We clearly disagree on a lot and that is ok. I don't see why that should give problems. You are allowed to voice your opinion, but you should also allow me and others to question your findings. Same goes the other way around. I apologize I attacked you personally, I shouldn't have done that and I should have stayed with the subject. I admitted that was wrong already in the thread, but hereby again in this one. Things are changed and you and I will not have the same relationship as we had before, but I think, as we are both adults, that we could at least try to treat each other better from now on. I can let this all behind me without grudge and I hope you will be able to do the same, so that we can continue this site we both worked so hard for the past year. It also is not fair towards the members if we would let this escalade until the forum is dead. It's a year of investigation by so many members and it would be a shame to let that all die.
And the Hoax within a Hoax thread has been locked for being off-topic(even though I don't really think it was). Drama anyone?! Saboteurs now that would make it less boring! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
It was locked before I even got to comment and add my thoughts to it.
For reasons I will NOT disclose on here I believe the questions directed to the member in that thread were completley justified.If you would prefer a whole new thread dedicated to shifting out people only here to cause shit,trouble make,lie,lead people on,pretend,and generally lurk about hiding their true self behind a computer screen then I will comment in that instead.
It did go off topic the last few pages but tbh,it was aided by it's original author and I agree with voice/chloe/wyhs/Michaelsupporter/and anyone else who commented.
And yes...before anyone wants to bring it,I have reasons for what I am saying and it is also justified.
I think the people on here are getting a bit sick to death-excuse the pun- of the lies and fake people leading them on.There is enough drama going down within the actual hoax without sick minded people who have nothing better to do adding to it and I think calling these people out in an open thread is far better than everyone who has a suspision sending a PM and no one really knowing what the truth is.
I have no feelings on the TS one being locked really only that it has restricted people's freedom to contribute their thoughts to the pot about all that is going on on here.
I liked the forum before WW3 broke out/the chatroom was closed,and it would be nice as Souza said for the tide to turn again and it go back to peace and tranquillity HOWEVER I personally believe that will not happen unless everything as much as it can be is cleared up,and the people with less than good intentions are revealed and removed from the site.
Lastly I think some people on here need to stop getting so 'attached' to other members and resting their entire hopes for Michael and his life and well being on them.
You are sitting targets for the people who like to manipulate and play games.
If you insist on putting people on a pedestal you will forever be let down and dissapointed.
If this is going to go the same way as the other threads maybe we should lock this thread too <!-- s --><!-- s -->
No, but in all seriousness if we don't solve or clear the air of what happened earlier we will just find other threads to argue and those will be locked too. I know that we are not trying to run away from these problems but locking doesn't seem to be working so lets try something else.
And the Hoax within a Hoax thread has been locked for being off-topic(even though I don't really think it was). Drama anyone?! Saboteurs now that would make it less boring! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
It was locked before I even got to comment and add my thoughts to it.
For reasons I will NOT disclose on here I believe the questions directed to the member in that thread were completley justified.If you would prefer a whole new thread dedicated to shifting out people only here to cause shit,trouble make,lie,lead people on,pretend,and generally lurk about hiding their true self behind a computer screen then I will comment in that instead.
It did go off topic the last few pages but tbh,it was aided by it's original author and I agree with voice/chloe/wyhs/Michaelsupporter/and anyone else who commented.
And yes...before anyone wants to bring it,I have reasons for what I am saying and it is also justified.
I think the people on here are getting a bit sick to death-excuse the pun- of the lies and fake people leading them on.There is enough drama going down within the actual hoax without sick minded people who have nothing better to do adding to it and I think calling these people out in an open thread is far better than everyone who has a suspision sending a PM and no one really knowing what the truth is.
I have no feelings on the TS one being locked really only that it has restricted people's freedom to contribute their thoughts to the pot about all that is going on on here.
I liked the forum before WW3 broke out/the chatroom was closed,and it would be nice as Souza said for the tide to turn again and it go back to peace and tranquillity HOWEVER I personally believe that will not happen unless everything as much as it can be is cleared up,and the people with less than good intentions are revealed and removed from the site.
Lastly I think some people on here need to stop getting so 'attached' to other members and resting their entire hopes for Michael and his life and well being on them.
You are sitting targets for the people who like to manipulate and play games.
If you insist on putting people on a pedestal you will forever be let down and dissapointed.
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Interesting question! There is not such a thing as a collective "WE" at the moment...my journey has taken me to interesting places and I beLIEveI can safely answer YES to your question.
Locking threads means using power, ordinary members don't have.
It will be a problem imo, as long as there are two (are there?) administrators, who can't come to terms together which threads to lock and which not.
So I am glad there is at least one thread left, which is said to remain open. We shall see.
I wonder if TS is willing to create a new thread, as he must assume his thread being locked after some posters have answered - maybe controversial.
He writes such elaborate texts which can't be written in a minute and no matter who he is, even if he should be a troll or an Admin or whoever, I would miss his words and background information. Sooner or later readers would find out if he can be trusted, if given the chance to express their views and exchange opinions.
We have the situation now, as it is all of a sudden presented to us, that there is suspicion among the "higher ranks". It must have started somewhere. Some members are confused, as they are left 'in the dark', not really knowing what is going on behind the scenes. They ask themselves, has it got anything to do with the validity of the hoax idea or is it just personal vendetta, human nature. (The latter I am not interested in, but if if we have been mislead to believe in a hoax or 'tested', it would be more serious)
Not only have they been mentally strained by Michael's 'passing', all the confusion over the last months - and now they witness war and hate in a forum, where they hoped for finding a community, united in their one and only goal - truth about Michael Jackson's fate and his whereabouts, alive or dead (hopefully not) or in misery or whatever.
It just makes you wanna scream! <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
What is this all about? Trust is just an empty word?
The best is not to rely too much on others and their conclusions, especially when it comes to the world wide web, it may prove to be a virtual trap. Nobody forces anybody to believe anything, that's the good thing about it. We are all free to decide what to believe and what not. I think, we all still have to learn how to use our new 'freedom'.
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Interesting question! There is not such a thing as a collective "WE" at the moment...my journey has taken me to interesting places and I beLIEveI can safely answer YES to your question.
With L.O.V.E
I think it's great if you think so. But did you ever think how you can verify your discoveries about the man we never knew? Because we all can make guesses about him, but how can we validate our guesses?
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
The man we never knew? who, Michael?
I have not read any post from Michael at all.
So, no, i can´t consider Michael to be "the man we never knew" since we have no idea if Michael is alive on the first place.
I woud like this nonsense trolling to stop, makes us look even more ridiculous.
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
I don't really know what your trying to say here Gina
ATM,as far as the forum goes I don't think it is about progress in discovering the man the world never knew, it is about making the structure of the forum stable again,building up trust again- after the bombs being dropped on it. They have done a great deal of damage to people's trust and belief and what it doesn't need is members who aren't being honest making it worse.They are only aiding the division of his 'army'.Michael doesn't need his fans,friends,family,anyone who believes in him and all he is arguing and not being as strong as he needs them to be for him.
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
Joker or Batman ... will see!
With L.O.V.E
Only the real ones my love...only the real ones.
It needs to happen sooner rather than later because the patience of the majority is running out.I'm pretty sure people would agree with me saying no one has time to waste on frauds.
As I said in my previous post I won't disclose it in a comment but there are people on here who need to leave it alone.
It's amazing how we are so open to believe MJ faked his death, but so reluctant to believe the mental and psychological "machinery" that could have leaded to such an extraordinary possible hoax.......
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
If making progress is about worshipping any sick mind coming to that forum and posting more cryptic than the previous one, then i'm not about making progress....
I'm fed up with fakers and bored people who have nothing better to do than get themselves some kind of life on the internet by using other people's trust, making them hope for a way to reach Michael...
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
I am trying to remind you what TS once said: if MJ would come on a forum most probably the fans would reject his ideas.
Now why do you think TS said that?
What am I trying to say Sinderella? That we don't really know him after all this time. Do we know how his mind works? Do we know his character? Do we know how he is behind the closed doors?
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
And so ? what are you trying to say ? That we have to keep open mind to any cryptic one on here in case it could be Michael related ?
I noticed the threads being locked, and yes, the topics got out of hands.
[judgemental mode on] I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.
Comments
There is no forum hoax, this is simply a childish argument between individuals with personal issues. Me guilty as charged and this needs to stop. It doesn't belong here and it has no goal other than indeed a total destruction of the forum.
I don't expect anyone to trust me, I have never asked anyone to trust me and to trust me as a person would be strange since none of you know me. The majority of the members are adults and are very capable to make judgements themselves.
If that means people want to know the 'truth' then fine, go and ask because I have nothing to hide, but I won't discuss private conversations with anyone. If people want to discuss 'Bob' then make a new thread, but I will not participate in it. I have made a promise and I don't like to betray someone's trust.
So in order to get this board back on track I want to say the following:
Mo, I already posted in another thread that I respect you as an admin of this board and as an investigator. I think we should make a truce. We clearly disagree on a lot and that is ok. I don't see why that should give problems. You are allowed to voice your opinion, but you should also allow me and others to question your findings. Same goes the other way around. I apologize I attacked you personally, I shouldn't have done that and I should have stayed with the subject. I admitted that was wrong already in the thread, but hereby again in this one. Things are changed and you and I will not have the same relationship as we had before, but I think, as we are both adults, that we could at least try to treat each other better from now on. I can let this all behind me without grudge and I hope you will be able to do the same, so that we can continue this site we both worked so hard for the past year. It also is not fair towards the members if we would let this escalade until the forum is dead. It's a year of investigation by so many members and it would be a shame to let that all die.
I am prepared to start over and forget all the issues starting now.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I still am positive that the tide can be turned, but if not, at least I tried. I can't do more than that.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."It was locked before I even got to comment and add my thoughts to it.
For reasons I will NOT disclose on here I believe the questions directed to the member in that thread were completley justified.If you would prefer a whole new thread dedicated to shifting out people only here to cause shit,trouble make,lie,lead people on,pretend,and generally lurk about hiding their true self behind a computer screen then I will comment in that instead.
It did go off topic the last few pages but tbh,it was aided by it's original author and I agree with voice/chloe/wyhs/Michaelsupporter/and anyone else who commented.
And yes...before anyone wants to bring it,I have reasons for what I am saying and it is also justified.
I think the people on here are getting a bit sick to death-excuse the pun- of the lies and fake people leading them on.There is enough drama going down within the actual hoax without sick minded people who have nothing better to do adding to it and I think calling these people out in an open thread is far better than everyone who has a suspision sending a PM and no one really knowing what the truth is.
I have no feelings on the TS one being locked really only that it has restricted people's freedom to contribute their thoughts to the pot about all that is going on on here.
I liked the forum before WW3 broke out/the chatroom was closed,and it would be nice as Souza said for the tide to turn again and it go back to peace and tranquillity HOWEVER I personally believe that will not happen unless everything as much as it can be is cleared up,and the people with less than good intentions are revealed and removed from the site.
Lastly I think some people on here need to stop getting so 'attached' to other members and resting their entire hopes for Michael and his life and well being on them.
You are sitting targets for the people who like to manipulate and play games.
If you insist on putting people on a pedestal you will forever be let down and dissapointed.
No, but in all seriousness if we don't solve or clear the air of what happened earlier we will just find other threads to argue and those will be locked too. I know that we are not trying to run away from these problems but locking doesn't seem to be working so lets try something else.
Funny you say this Sinderella... I wonder whether Diamonds are forever! I guess only real ones are!
I agree that...It should be interesting when all the fakes are uncovered... I am looking forward to the day!.... There will certainly be some surprises.... I can't wait!
Joker or Batman ... will see!
With L.O.V.E
I would like to ask everybody a question: do you think we made any progress in discovering the man we never knew?
Interesting question! There is not such a thing as a collective "WE" at the moment...my journey has taken me to interesting places and I beLIEve I can safely answer YES to your question.
With L.O.V.E
It will be a problem imo, as long as there are two (are there?) administrators, who can't come to terms together which threads to lock and which not.
So I am glad there is at least one thread left, which is said to remain open. We shall see.
I wonder if TS is willing to create a new thread, as he must assume his thread being locked after some posters have answered - maybe controversial.
He writes such elaborate texts which can't be written in a minute and no matter who he is, even if he should be a troll or an Admin or whoever, I would miss his words and background information. Sooner or later readers would find out if he can be trusted, if given the chance to express their views and exchange opinions.
We have the situation now, as it is all of a sudden presented to us, that there is suspicion among the "higher ranks". It must have started somewhere. Some members are confused, as they are left 'in the dark', not really knowing what is going on behind the scenes. They ask themselves, has it got anything to do with the validity of the hoax idea or is it just personal vendetta, human nature. (The latter I am not interested in, but if if we have been mislead to believe in a hoax or 'tested', it would be more serious)
Not only have they been mentally strained by Michael's 'passing', all the confusion over the last months - and now they witness war and hate in a forum, where they hoped for finding a community, united in their one and only goal - truth about Michael Jackson's fate and his whereabouts, alive or dead (hopefully not) or in misery or whatever.
It just makes you wanna scream! <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
What is this all about? Trust is just an empty word?
The best is not to rely too much on others and their conclusions, especially when it comes to the world wide web, it may prove to be a virtual trap. Nobody forces anybody to believe anything, that's the good thing about it. We are all free to decide what to believe and what not. I think, we all still have to learn how to use our new 'freedom'.
I think it's great if you think so. But did you ever think how you can verify your discoveries about the man we never knew? Because we all can make guesses about him, but how can we validate our guesses?
I am very happy to read this.
This says a lot about you.
The man we never knew? who, Michael?
I have not read any post from Michael at all.
So, no, i can´t consider Michael to be "the man we never knew" since we have no idea if Michael is alive on the first place.
I woud like this nonsense trolling to stop, makes us look even more ridiculous.
I agree with you.
I don't really know what your trying to say here Gina
ATM,as far as the forum goes I don't think it is about progress in discovering the man the world never knew, it is about making the structure of the forum stable again,building up trust again- after the bombs being dropped on it. They have done a great deal of damage to people's trust and belief and what it doesn't need is members who aren't being honest making it worse.They are only aiding the division of his 'army'.Michael doesn't need his fans,friends,family,anyone who believes in him and all he is arguing and not being as strong as he needs them to be for him.
Only the real ones my love...only the real ones.
It needs to happen sooner rather than later because the patience of the majority is running out.I'm pretty sure people would agree with me saying no one has time to waste on frauds.
As I said in my previous post I won't disclose it in a comment but there are people on here who need to leave it alone.
If making progress is about worshipping any sick mind coming to that forum and posting more cryptic than the previous one, then i'm not about making progress....
I'm fed up with fakers and bored people who have nothing better to do than get themselves some kind of life on the internet by using other people's trust, making them hope for a way to reach Michael...
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?
Being believers doesn't make us know him better than the nonbelievers. Maybe just a little better.
I am trying to remind you what TS once said: if MJ would come on a forum most probably the fans would reject his ideas.
Now why do you think TS said that?
Anyone here know Michael personally, well that's what I imagine...
And so ? what are you trying to say ? That we have to keep open mind to any cryptic one on here in case it could be Michael related ?
[judgemental mode on]
I support the idea to open new threads questioning what is "so funny or interesting" in playing with people. And, btw, What a botched job once again! Looks like a kindergarden full of wanna be intelligent manipulators and psycho wanna be with no insight at all.
[judgemental mode off]
To be honest, looks like we accept all this junk drama because we hope that MJ is behind all of this and being alive and still, after more than a year, shady characters come up.
And Gina, no, we do not know Michael at all, we just know who he was observing his speeches, as the whole world did, but I can say loudly that I doubt that Michael was a bad person with twisted intentions.