paula-c wrote:
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
GOD, TS is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I want to clarify that I'm laughing at the post of Gema <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
What make you think that TS could be that passive aggresive?
I honestly think that TS will give info when he has info/ opinions to give, independently if he is upset or not.
He is in the same boat than us, proving that MJ is not dead, so "his info" was out there since always by his own choice. Nobody forced him to write those posts and redirections.
The investigation will go on with or without numbers and biblic quotes.
If TS vanishes, another member will take over or another "insider".
At the end, we are the ones individually who must get clousure.
TS predicted events in advance, but also predicted other events which did not come through.
Most of us are here because we did not believe that MJ died on June 25th 2009.
TS is a "door opener, thought opener" as other members are with great investigations.
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
Not providing enough information is really a very bad punishment if this information is really needed. And yes, I see it as a punishment!!!! He wrote that there will be no redirects anymore. If I'm sad I won't talks to certain people because they pissed me of. And if these people really need me I will punish them with not talking to them and not offering my help to them. I hope you got my point.
Sounds like the actions of a child, to me.
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Sorry, I am not American. So could you please tell me what" where you're coming from" means???
here your coming from=What you are saying/what you mean/I undertand your point of view...
It isn't an American only phrase.
and TS has no right to punish anyone unless at the end he decides to tell everyone he is infact Michael Jackson which I highly doubt is likely.This is MICHAEL'S hoz not TS's.
He is a member-all be it a respected more than most member-but non the less...a member of this forum.
Well, if he did not want to do but it is your problem, here we will continue with or without TS, besides that I think it would be immature and arrogant attitude, or perhaps because it no longer grounds for debate.
Where your coming from=What you are saying/what you mean/I undertand your point of view...
It isn't an American only phrase.
and TS has no right to punish anyone unless at the end he decides to tell everyone he is infact Michael Jackson which I highly doubt is likely.This is MICHAEL'S hoz not TS's.
He is a member-all be it a respected more than most member-but non the less...a member of this forum.
In my haste to reply....I made a spelling error.woops
Sorry. Hoax not not hoz LOL.
Hi everyone,
I think we all compeletely lost the track by accusing each other.
So I would like to ask those who are doing this all the time: are you happy with what you are doing? We are not getting any redirects from TS just because of that kind of behaviour!!!! So we are sort of punished now!
Ithink this is terrible!!!!!!!! It's sad to admit this but i think it's just the human nature!!!!!!!!
We start to talk about love and Michael's message an so on and so on...... and we end up with no new redirects anymore....
accusations...... suspision..............What are you doing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's about tome to wake up and to realize that what you are doing is completely wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is reminding me of the famous novel "Lord of the Flies" . It's about some children who got lost on an Island because of an airplane crash. In order to survive they formed some kind of a group with a group leader. Then they started to have their own tribe regulations and began to punish each others just like adults do. They ended up with behaving like kaniballs and wanted to hunt the weakest childern down in order to eat them. In this novel the narrator wants to emphasize that no matter how civilized human beings nowadays are, they will reach the point where thy would return to their savage origins because it's just our human nature. When I read the forum I think he is completely right.
This is toooooo saaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are joking....
Who's TS? Our lives and opinions don't hinge on that one overly mysterious person.
As Michael once said in a song..."you keep dreaming..."
If you are mad at someone you could do anything!!! Remember the fight of our admins?! What do you call that? I'm not saying that this is a right behavior and that I'm supporting it. I'm just trying to explain why I see this as a punishment so please don't get me wrong. Sometimes a mother does it also to her child when she sees that her child doesn't want to obey her although she is warning him. She leaves him to have his own experience in life even if he gets hurt. Do you like this example more?
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
I agree and I'm hoping we hear more of your thoughts that you didn't feel you were able to share. I think what we're seeing is that we have a group of people on this forum that have learned to think for themselves (maybe we've learned that too well - lol) and not so much having the need to be spoon fed information anymore.
Diggyon - since you used an example, I will too. It's like when a person is sick or weak. You feed them and help nourish them back to health. But, if you continue to spoon feed them instead of teaching them to feed themselves, you will never have anything more than a grown baby. In fact, I think TS said herself that we need to think for ourselves.
If TS is going to withhold information because of people standing up for truth then what she's doing is nothing more than a form of manipulation.
[center:3hietke6]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:3hietke6]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIESare spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
paula-c wrote:
Who is TS to punish anyone? ... would be something like, if you believe in me all goes well, if you do not believe in me and start asking questions and has topics about punishment you
GOD, TS is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I want to clarify that I'm laughing at the post of Gema <!-- s --><!-- s -->
she has been on a roll lately <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> keep it coming girl i could use some laughs about now
[center:b9hx6zhg]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:b9hx6zhg]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIESare spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
Some people use "he" because they think it's a he. I use "she" because I think it's a she. I could use "it" but I don't think that's very nice. That's all.
I have tried not responding to TS topics but I felt I needed to because I believe that we're being too distracted during this important and historic time.
I have been totally amazed at the brilliant minds of quite a few people on this forum - how you all are able to piece together information, see through the veils, and stay on course to find the truth. I have learned a lot from you all and could never have gotten this far without out. Thank you.
My whole intent these last couple of days in being more vocal towards the truth is that I feel like we are losing focus on what is important. Michael.
God bless Michael Jackson. May he find victory in the fight and may we all be there in the end holding hands to celebrate in his success because it's never been more deserving.
[center:v4769opy]I always thought that TS was Hermaphrodite where is the SHE evidence coming from may I ask?[/center:v4769opy]
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIESare spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
Some people use "he" because they think it's a he. I use "she" because I think it's a she. I could use "it" but I don't think that's very nice. That's all.
I have tried not responding to TS topics but I felt I needed to because I believe that we're being too distracted during this important and historic time.
I have been totally amazed at the brilliant minds of quite a few people on this forum - how you all are able to piece together information, see through the veils, and stay on course to find the truth. I have learned a lot from you all and could never have gotten this far without out. Thank you.
My whole intent these last couple of days in being more vocal towards the truth is that I feel like we are losing focus on what is important. Michael.
God bless Michael Jackson. May he find victory in the fight and may we all be there in the end holding hands to celebrate in his success because it's never been more deserving.
Peace to you Voiceforthesilent,
The unbiased Truth is what matters.
To regroup, we will need one Truth to unite us all
Only then we will be able to move forward
We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours - My intention was purely to clarify the use of "SHE" in the context of TS and understand whether it was backed up by any evidence(s); You have truthfully answered my question - THANK YOU.
I think Lady Gaga has been rather busy this year and as she is the only "possible alleged" hermaphrodite I can think of, I probably need to revise my own theory! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
I agree bec although I'm not sure about TS being chased off the forum. I think he is sitting back, watching and waiting. I don't think we've heard the last from TS nor do I think the re-directs are over. Whether a person chooses to believe TS is legit or not can't argue that there are too many coincidences with TS that can't really be coincidences. Thinking for ourselves has shown us that much and if a person is truly thinking for his or herself and still chooses to call TS a fake, then at least it's their own choice, even if it may be incorrect. I can't say what's right or wrong, it's not my place - I can only say what I think and I've said all along and that is that I believe TS does know something about the hoax and if any of the members of this forum are in contact with Michael, it's TS.
And I agree this hoax will carry on no matter what. Believe what TS writes, don't believe it - as long as we are thinking for ourselves and conducting ourselves in a peaceful manner then we should be fine.
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
Totally Agree with you Bec <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Hopefully He sees the good apples amongst the rest! It is not the Quantity but the Quality that counts!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~Margaret Meade
With L.O.V.E
PS: I really don't like bad apples...the taste or the texture... I really don't. No disclaimer, simple fact!
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
The deception infiltrating the church was driven home for me recently after receiving an email from a visitor to this site. He generally agreed with what he read here, but took issue with an article about one of the pseudo-Christian movements. He pointed out the movement was about holy living through the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. At the same time, he agreed there were counterfeit teachings in the movement and defended them because in his view, counterfeit teachings are found in all denominations. He was willing to embrace the movements abberant teachings in exchange for the "signs and wonders." This is precisely the nature of deception Paul referred to in 2 Cor. 11:3-4 and is why deceptive gospels are so destructive to the Church.
As Paul said, "you put up with it easily enough."
Satan is the arch-counterfeiter.
The Devil is now busy at work in the same field in which the Lord sowed the good seed. He is seeking to prevent the growth of the wheat by another plant, the tares, which closely resembles the wheat in appearance. In a word, by a process of imitation he is aiming to neutralize the Work of Christ. Therefore, as Christ has a Gospel, Satan has a gospel too; the latter being a clever counterfeit of the former. So closely does the gospel of Satan resemble that which it parodies, multitudes of the unsaved are deceived by it.
Satan's primary tactic in opposing God is not to foster atheism but religion; not to prove there is no God but to be worshipped as God.
Satan is not an initiator but an imitator. God has an only begotten Son - the Lord Jesus, and so has Satan - "the son of Perdition" (2 Thess. 2:3). There is a Holy Trinity, and there is likewise a Trinity of Evil (Rev. 20:10). As we read of the "children of God," so also we read of "the children of the wicked one" (Matt. 13:38). As there is a "mystery of godliness (1 Tim. 3:6), so also is there a "mystery of iniquity" (2 Thess. 2:7). We are told that God by His angels "seals" His servants in their foreheads (Rev. 7:3), so also, we learn that Satan by his agents sets a mark in the foreheads of his devotees (Rev. 13:16). Are we told that "the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God" (1 Cor. 2:10), then Satan also provides his "deep things (see Greek of Rev. 2:24). Did Christ perform miracles, so also can Satan (2 Thess. 2:9). Is Christ seated upon a throne, so is Satan (Rev. 2:13 - Gr.). Has Christ a Church, then Satan has his "synagogue" (Rev. 2:9). Is Christ the Light of the world, then so is Satan himself "transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). Did Christ appoint "apostles," then Satan has his apostles, too (2 Cor. 11:13).
Satan has been in the "another gospel" business for a long time. He still asks modern man the same question he offered Eve, "Did God really say?" (Gen. 3) His goal then as now, especially since the glorious good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ burst onto the world scene nearly 2000 years ago, has always been to produce a counterfeit gospel, which would replace the true, and keep men in darkness and spiritual slumber.
In order "to mislead, if it were possible, even God's own people" [Phillips trans.], the evil one has inspired false prophets to preach error. To be effective, it often is truly seductive: evil will appear harmless or even good. A sugar-coated gospel is much easier to swallow. It is very attractive to accept the blessings without the cross; to choose our own path over "the way, the truth, and the life", to say, "My will be done."
"Woe unto them who call evil, good, and good, evil" [Isaiah 5:20]
The gospel of Satan is not a system of revolutionary principles, nor yet a program of anarchy. It does not promote strife and war, but aims at peace and unity. It seeks not to set the mother against her daughter nor the father against his son, but fosters the fraternal spirit whereby the human race is regarded as one great "brotherhood." It does not seek to drag down the natural man, but to improve and uplift him. It advocates education and cultivation and appeals to "the best that is within us." It aims to make this world such a comfortable and congenial habitat that Christ's absence from it will not be felt and God will not be needed. It endeavors to occupy man so much with this world that he has no time or inclination to think of the world to come. It propagates the principles of self-sacrifice, charity and benevolence, and teaches us to live for the good of others, and to be kind to all. It appeals strongly to the carnal mind and is popular with the masses, because it ignores the solemn facts that by nature man is a fallen creature, alienated from the life of God, and dead in trespasses and sins, and that his only hope lies in being born again.
In antithesis to the Gospel of Christ, the gospel of Satan teaches salvation by works. It inculcates justification before God on the ground of human merits. Its sacramental phrase is "Be good and do good"; but it fails to recognize that in the flesh there dwelleth no good thing. It announces salvation by character, which reverses the order of God's Word - character by, as the fruit of, salvation. Its various ramifications and organizations are manifold. Temperance, Reform Movements, "Christian Socialist Leagues," Ethical Culture Societies, "Peace Congresses" are all employed (perhaps unconsciously) in proclaiming this gospel of Satan - salvation by works. The pledge-card is substituted for Christ; social purity for individual regeneration, and politics and philosophy, for doctrine and godliness. The cultivation of the old man is considered more "practical" than the creation of a new man in Christ Jesus; whilst universal peace is looked for apart from the interposition and return of the Prince of Peace.
Prophecy Fulfilled
New doctrines, new revelations and new gospels are springing up almost daily. Some have been with us for some time. Many have been previously debunked, yet some people tenaciously hang on to them. And it's going to get much worse. The Bible clearly warns that in the last days strange doctrines will come forth - introducing another Jesus, another Spirit, another gospel (Matt. 24:4-5; 2 Tim. 3:1-5).
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [1 Thessalonians 2:9-10]
Even a cursory review of what has taken place in the Church during the last 25 years will reveal a fierce underming of the faith. Precisely as the Bible warns (Mt. 7:21-23; 24:4,11,24; 2 Thes 2:3; etc.), today's most effective enemies of Christ are those who claim to be Christians and call mankind not just to any old false religion but to a counterfeit Christianity.
In some respects, believers of Paul's day "had it easy" compared to this generation. In those days the opposition to truth was in the secular world around them - it had not yet infiltrated the Church under the guise of a more enlightened or advanced Christianity. While there were pressing pagan influences as well as some heretical teachings and practices here and there, they weren't subjected to anything like the flood of false beliefs, teachings, and practices surging in on the tidal wave of today's Christian media.
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
[Matthew 7:15-20]
Jesus warned us that these false prophets will come to us in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. False prophets won't come saying that they are deceiving us. No, they will sound good and will claim they are telling the truth. So, rather than judging them by their words, we are instructed to judge the messenger by their fruit.
The corporate owned mass media is flooded with deceptive messages and in many cases outright propaganda designed to manipulate society into their collectivist mold.
Within most mainline churches today, and even many evangelical churches, rather than demanding objective truth about the world around them, too many people are willing to believe whatever seems to agree with their preconceived attitudes. The pragmatic belief is that the ends justify the means. Hence, we see militia groups abounding, claiming a Christian heritage yet spreading hate towards Jews. Others in the Patriot Movement attempting to expose the New World Order are seen as kooks and their message nothing more than conspiracy theory. Other Christian churches are populated with people who justify violence toward abortion mills and homosexual groups. In many Christian churches you find those who view drinking alcohol or "a little wine" (1 Tim. 5:23) as a sin. And in nearly all Christian churches the congregation rushes to accept politically correct but misleading facts about smoking.
The popular church of the 21st Century pretends to adhere to the truth, yet quietly undermines it. Experience and emotion are substituted for the Word of God as its basis of faith. Any time we make emotional "religious experiences" or various signs and wonders the criterion of our faith, we thereby open the floodgates to every sort of delusion. If experience or emotion becomes the standard of our faith, then we must accept the validity of any experience from which someone gains a "religious" sensation: the ancient ritual prostitution at pagan temples; the frenzied worship of Bacchus; the Moslem dervishes and followers of the Ayatollah Khomeini and his successors.
In fact, all religious experiences must be tested for agreement with Scripture before they can be accepted as genuinely from God. Scripture is the objective criterion which permits us to separate true experiences of God from delusions of the evil one. All of our religious experiences must be verified by Scripture; Scripture is not proved by them.
They perish because they refused to love the truth. [2 Thessalonians 2:10]
Without a love for truth and a mental storehouse filled with God's Word, people cannot discern error. Many are drawn to the self-focused empowerment of goddess-philosophy, christian cults, and psychological-spiritual imitations. Like rudderless boats in the night, they cascade down the rapids trapped in a raging social current headed for destruction. You can clearly see this operating today in "multiculturalism" and "political correctness" where we are told to embrace, accept and tolerate things the Bible clearly condemns.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. [Colossians 2:8]
The average American Christian defines God as Love, a word which is understood from a "feelings" humanistic and temporal viewpoint. This definition does not cause any problems to a sinful lifestyle, for the concept of tolerant love does not include the reality of a HOLY God, a JUST God, and a TRUE God.
The Love of God is also Just, which is not concerned with our comfort and feelings, but with what is Right. The Love of God is HOLY, which is destructive to sinful living and the carnal nature and is not tolerant toward rebellion and willful ignorance.
The question is, do you KNOW God in Christ Jesus ... as He has revealed Himself in the Scriptures? Have you read His Book? Have you studied it? How can you be sure you know the real God in Christ Jesus if you have not studied what He has said about Himself?
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.
Hebrews 5:12-6:3
Take the following info how you wish. I see the below characteristics to be Human Nature. I see this happening here on this board by believers. Insight to how a players mind really works...lol
1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil
Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it - especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
2. Become incredulous and indignant
Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used to show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.
3. Create rumor mongers
Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
4. Use a straw man
Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule
This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
6. Hit and Run
In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning - simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
7. Question motives
Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
8. Invoke authority
Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
9. Play Dumb
No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
10. Associate opponent charges with old news
A derivative of the straw man - usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues - so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions
Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made - but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
12. Enigmas have no solution
Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic
Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact.
14. Demand complete solutions
Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions
This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses
If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.
17. Change the subject
Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents
If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
19. Ignore facts presented, demand impossible proofs
This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
20. False evidence
Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations - as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body
Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed an unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
22. Manufacture a new truth
Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.
23. Create bigger distractions
If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
24. Silence critics
If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
25. Vanish
If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.
Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
1. Avoidance
They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.
2. Selectivity
They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.
3. Coincidental
They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.
4. Teamwork
They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.
5. Anti-conspiratorial
They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain. Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.
6. Artificial Emotions
An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin - an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal.
But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation.
You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later - an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game - where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
7. Inconsistent
There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.
I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education.
I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.
8. Time Constant
There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:
ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.
When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.
In the NG example a) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.
Remarkably, not even media and law enforcement have NOT BEEN TRAINED to deal with these issues.
For the most part, only the players themselves understand the rules of the game.
Well, for what it's worth, I think TS was likely legitimate, if not MJ himself, and I'm slightly perturbed that he was chased off of the forum. Because he was chased off in my opinion. And I don't see the point in that. It's quite akin to shooting yourself in the foot, I think.
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
Very well said, bec. I love your post. This is exactly what i was thinking of. We can never ignore TS that way. He is the only one who mentioned numerology in that hoax and explained it very well. I don't know why people keep ignoring that and saying that it's ok not to have TS anymore. He explained much and helped us understand many things and I'm really grateful for that!!!
Comments
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What make you think that TS could be that passive aggresive?
I honestly think that TS will give info when he has info/ opinions to give, independently if he is upset or not.
He is in the same boat than us, proving that MJ is not dead, so "his info" was out there since always by his own choice. Nobody forced him to write those posts and redirections.
The investigation will go on with or without numbers and biblic quotes.
If TS vanishes, another member will take over or another "insider".
At the end, we are the ones individually who must get clousure.
TS predicted events in advance, but also predicted other events which did not come through.
Most of us are here because we did not believe that MJ died on June 25th 2009.
TS is a "door opener, thought opener" as other members are with great investigations.
Sounds like the actions of a child, to me.
Hey Diggy. Im not attacking you. PEACE!
I totally understand where you are coming from.
But it shouldnt be like this. If someone has information then they should just give it out in an honest and fair way. xx
I guess i am tired of the drip drip of cryptic clues.... <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
It isn't an American only phrase.
and TS has no right to punish anyone unless at the end he decides to tell everyone he is infact Michael Jackson which I highly doubt is likely.This is MICHAEL'S hoz not TS's.
He is a member-all be it a respected more than most member-but non the less...a member of this forum.
Well, if he did not want to do but it is your problem, here we will continue with or without TS, besides that I think it would be immature and arrogant attitude, or perhaps because it no longer grounds for debate.
In my haste to reply....I made a spelling error.woops
Sorry. Hoax not not hoz LOL.
That is all.
Who's TS? Our lives and opinions don't hinge on that one overly mysterious person.
As Michael once said in a song..."you keep dreaming..."
I agree and I'm hoping we hear more of your thoughts that you didn't feel you were able to share. I think what we're seeing is that we have a group of people on this forum that have learned to think for themselves (maybe we've learned that too well - lol) and not so much having the need to be spoon fed information anymore.
Diggyon - since you used an example, I will too. It's like when a person is sick or weak. You feed them and help nourish them back to health. But, if you continue to spoon feed them instead of teaching them to feed themselves, you will never have anything more than a grown baby. In fact, I think TS said herself that we need to think for ourselves.
If TS is going to withhold information because of people standing up for truth then what she's doing is nothing more than a form of manipulation.
Blessings to each of you.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.....So awesome.
Clearly it is an important piece of information and I am interested in the source of this info. The source probably know who TS is and it is worthwhile investigating further.
With L.O.V.E
Disclaimer: My interest is the TRUTH, too many LIES are spread by TROLLS and accepted for TRUTH.
she has been on a roll lately <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> keep it coming girl i could use some laughs about now
Some people use "he" because they think it's a he. I use "she" because I think it's a she. I could use "it" but I don't think that's very nice. That's all.
I have tried not responding to TS topics but I felt I needed to because I believe that we're being too distracted during this important and historic time.
I have been totally amazed at the brilliant minds of quite a few people on this forum - how you all are able to piece together information, see through the veils, and stay on course to find the truth. I have learned a lot from you all and could never have gotten this far without out. Thank you.
My whole intent these last couple of days in being more vocal towards the truth is that I feel like we are losing focus on what is important. Michael.
God bless Michael Jackson. May he find victory in the fight and may we all be there in the end holding hands to celebrate in his success because it's never been more deserving.
Peace to you Voiceforthesilent,
The unbiased Truth is what matters.
To regroup, we will need one Truth to unite us all
Only then we will be able to move forward
We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours - My intention was purely to clarify the use of "SHE" in the context of TS and understand whether it was backed up by any evidence(s); You have truthfully answered my question - THANK YOU.
I think Lady Gaga has been rather busy this year and as she is the only "possible alleged" hermaphrodite I can think of, I probably need to revise my own theory! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
With L.O.V.E
But I've said it before and I really believe it, I doubt MJ will throw the towel in on a 25 year long project of a lifetime over a few personalities behaving badly on the forum. The hoax will go on, even if the bad apples get us all thrown out of our front row seats. No matter. It's not about us.
But back to TS, I cannot ignore or disregard the information nor the connections, nor the apparent circle of influence, and I think to do such a thing is foolish. And I think it's especially foolish if you call yourself a hoaxer. Open minds gather knowledge.
I understand getting scared, losing faith, growing weary... but there are certain things, a laundry list of certain things, that are undeniable in this hoax... that will always bring me back to hoax no matter what happens, and a couple of them are in regards to TS.
I agree bec although I'm not sure about TS being chased off the forum. I think he is sitting back, watching and waiting. I don't think we've heard the last from TS nor do I think the re-directs are over. Whether a person chooses to believe TS is legit or not can't argue that there are too many coincidences with TS that can't really be coincidences. Thinking for ourselves has shown us that much and if a person is truly thinking for his or herself and still chooses to call TS a fake, then at least it's their own choice, even if it may be incorrect. I can't say what's right or wrong, it's not my place - I can only say what I think and I've said all along and that is that I believe TS does know something about the hoax and if any of the members of this forum are in contact with Michael, it's TS.
And I agree this hoax will carry on no matter what. Believe what TS writes, don't believe it - as long as we are thinking for ourselves and conducting ourselves in a peaceful manner then we should be fine.
Totally Agree with you Bec <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Hopefully He sees the good apples amongst the rest! It is not the Quantity but the Quality that counts!
With L.O.V.E
PS: I really don't like bad apples...the taste or the texture... I really don't. No disclaimer, simple fact!
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Take the following info how you wish. I see the below characteristics to be Human Nature. I see this happening here on this board by believers. Insight to how a players mind really works...lol
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