Girlie....I'm not necessarily meaning that for YOU. Sorry. I don't mean to offend. I just know there's a lot going that way on here is all and I tried to tie it in with some of the conversations in this thread.
Alrighty <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Girlie....I'm not necessarily meaning that for YOU. Sorry. I don't mean to offend. I just know there's a lot going that way on here is all and I tried to tie it in with some of the conversations in this thread.
Alrighty <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Alrighty. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I thought that you wrote it for me because I'm the one who wrote he didn't age and change at all. That's ok if you didn't write it to me. But I really do not like when people feel the need of reminding that Michael is not God, like we already don't know it. You know what I'm saying? He looks amazing but this has nothing to do with being God. Anyways, this is not a good topic to discuss about. Let's get back to topic. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
fordtocarr, I know you meant me, not PureLove, who was saying one thing about saviours and I just took it further. I think we all have some divine in us, and that we will all one day be transformed to live forever, with not one in hell. It all depends on your view of the Jesus figure as the Christian faith believes him to be and one's understanding of the purpose of the Bible, and mine is unorthodox for sure. I think Michael, TS, Back and Front--all use the Scriptures for their own unique purposes as it suits them. Michael sings that there is ONE religion, and that is LOVE. I know this is off topic, but still relates to the Illuminati and TPTB, and Michael's possible relationship with/opposing it. I'm just trying to connect dots with no limitations or boxes, with all the clues, visuals, insight that has been collected these 2 years by so many. God the Creator of the Universe has no body but is Spirit only, and directs and chooses Special Ones as He wishes (collectively probably fills every atom). On this forum we have Christians, Muslims, Atheists, JW's, and other world views-- one of which is mine. What we are really trying to decipher here is what Michael was/is thinking, planning or what God's plan is for him. I believe in Michael and am willing to follow this road [glow=red:3g6lqpp1]wherever[/glow:3g6lqpp1] it leads to. It's hard for me to skirt around this issue because to me it's at the centre of everything Michael does, but I will out of respect for others that I know it offends. <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
fordtocarr, I know you meant me, not PureLove, who was saying one thing about saviours and I just took it further. I think we all have some divine in us, and that we will all one day be transformed to live forever, with not one in hell. It all depends on your view of the Jesus figure as the Christian faith believes him to be and one's understanding of the purpose of the Bible, and mine is unorthodox for sure. I think Michael, TS, Back and Front--all use the Scriptures for their own unique purposes as it suits them. Michael sings that there is ONE religion, and that is LOVE. I know this is off topic, but still relates to the Illuminati and TPTB, and Michael's possible relationship with/opposing it. I'm just trying to connect dots with no limitations or boxes, with all the clues, visuals, insight that has been collected these 2 years by so many. God the Creator of the Universe has no body but is Spirit only, and directs and chooses Special Ones as He wishes (collectively probably fills every atom). On this forum we have Christians, Muslims, Atheists, JW's, and other world views-- one of which is mine. What we are really trying to decipher here is what Michael was/is thinking, planning or what God's plan is for him. I believe in Michael and am willing to follow this road [glow=red:2n66oxd0]wherever[/glow:2n66oxd0] it leads to. It's hard for me to skirt around this issue because to me it's at the centre of everything Michael does, but I will out of respect for others that I know it offends. <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
<br /><br />[font=cursive:2n66oxd0]Well, I'm sorry to you too if I offended you. Geez, why is it alright for some to say things which have been stated, but not for me to disagree and state mine?<br />I know you believe what you say, as do I. I simply stated how I feel just as you and others do. I never tried to condemn or may anyone feel badly, it's just that "I" don't believe that Michael is the archangel and "I" don't believe Michael claimed to be either. Isn't it alright that I say that if you can say you think so?<br />I'm sorry you may be offended. Genuinely. <br />And I tried to make my comment tied to the things that were being discussed, but I see that it is getting off topic. That said..once again, I'm sorry I disagreed with you and perhaps offended anyone.[/font:2n66oxd0]
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
We all entertain our personal theories based on our perception of things, our beliefs, etc. I think the best way to operate in a situation such as this, is to go with the "I don't know" state of mind and hence be open minded to the Truth when it is revealed. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Those of us who have made reference to Michael being prophesied in the bible (which ever way someone views him) is not meant to be disrespectful to those who chose not to believe. We each have an individual interpretation. Some chose to see him as ArchAngel Michael, some chose to see him as the pre-incarnate of Jesus, and some of us chose to see him as a figure who is prophesied in Daniel as a Chief Prince of God's Army-(a man/messenger) chosen by God for our times. This should not be a source of threat to anyone or a debate. It is what it is how ever you see it.
did i not read it correctly or did ts say there were no limits on the topics in this thread?
as for the topic at hand i wish to hell there was some way to get down to the nitty gritty about it. settled , signed sealed and delivered from michaels lips to our ears . it has been a reoccurring problem and it is divisive. humm maybe that is the point.
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
Ohhhhhhh, you're right *face*palm*, I forgot <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
Ohhhhhhh, you're right *face*palm*, I forgot <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
I wouldn't have known that except for the first time I heard the song (2 years ago isn't that a shame) I looked up the lyrics and saw it.
I do not think Mike's catalogue is the reason he had to be taken down either. The catalogue is worth a lot, I agree, but it's nothing if you look at what 'they' own. The catalogue is change compared to that. The reason he had to be taken down is because they know he is the one that can take THEM down. They have seen him become more and more powerful, loved and known and they also saw he spits on them and has his own mission; to HEAL this world that is infected by greed, selfishness and evil. If he would have 100 fans, they wouldn't bother, but he has millions, if not billions. People from all over the world, from all religions, love him deeply. I don't think there is a person on earth who does not know who he is and what he stands for. That is why he is dangerous to them: too much power that he uses in the name of LOVE and not in the name of evil. He's not Jesus, he is Jesus-like. Like Jesus, I truly believe he will shake this earth so drastically by raising from the dead, that it will change our complete way of thinking and how we treat each other. It's meant to be, it's fate. They might try to prevent it from happening, but they won't succeed because it is written in the stars. The hippies were labelled as lunatics because they were right, like we are labelled as lunatics. We're simply modern day hippies. TS, I know it's not irrefutable proof, but history proves my point and that is enough for me.<br /><br />As for other proof, to get back on topic, we have the faked funeral:<br /><br /><br /><br />If he were really murdered, there would be no use in staging a funeral. You only stage a funeral in a movie studio if you are making a movie, otherwise you could have just used live footage since you really would have a body to put six feet under. Same with the ambulance picture, why a staged picture? Makes no sense. To make it look like a hoax? With what purpose? To cover up murder? Makes no sense, but maybe you can give me a logical explanation mr. D. Advocate.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
What if there were more than one group after him? What if they were trying to take him down because of his catalogue and like you said, illuminati was trying to take him down because they knew he is the only one who can take them down? Maybe it was both the Estate and the illuminati or maybe the mafia were all after him. We do not know how much in danger he was and who exactly threatened him. I'm trying to write the worst scenario.
I absolutely agree with you about the funeral Souza. There was no need for a green screened funeral if he was gone for real. When I told about this to some non-believers, they told me that, maybe the family wanted the scene/the view looked better. Why would they bother to make the view look better? Their son, brother is "dead", they would have been in a big shock. Who would care about the view? So, I agree with what you said about the funeral, and about the ambo pic too.
TS had better start to debunk our hoax proofs. That would take a long time to debunk them all. But what I wonder is, how is he going to debunk his $999 award numerology proof. Can't wait. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
I do not think Mike's catalogue is the reason he had to be taken down either. The catalogue is worth a lot, I agree, but it's nothing if you look at what 'they' own. The catalogue is change compared to that. The reason he had to be taken down is because they know he is the one that can take THEM down. They have seen him become more and more powerful, loved and known and they also saw he spits on them and has his own mission; to HEAL this world that is infected by greed, selfishness and evil. If he would have 100 fans, they wouldn't bother, but he has millions, if not billions. People from all over the world, from all religions, love him deeply. I don't think there is a person on earth who does not know who he is and what he stands for. That is why he is dangerous to them: too much power that he uses in the name of LOVE and not in the name of evil. He's not Jesus, he is Jesus-like. Like Jesus, I truly believe he will shake this earth so drastically by raising from the dead, that it will change our complete way of thinking and how we treat each other. It's meant to be, it's fate. They might try to prevent it from happening, but they won't succeed because it is written in the stars. The hippies were labelled as lunatics because they were right, like we are labelled as lunatics. We're simply modern day hippies. TS, I know it's not irrefutable proof, but history proves my point and that is enough for me.
As for other proof, to get back on topic, we have the faked funeral:
[BBvideo 425,350:3hsslcbg]
If he were really murdered, there would be no use in staging a funeral. You only stage a funeral in a movie studio if you are making a movie, otherwise you could have just used live footage since you really would have a body to put six feet under. Same with the ambulance picture, why a staged picture? Makes no sense. To make it look like a hoax? With what purpose? To cover up murder? Makes no sense, but maybe you can give me a logical explanation mr. D. Advocate.
I have to agree with you I don't think he was murdered for his catalog either. The only thing I question is why now? MJ has been out of the spotlight for years, I would think it would make more sense to do it while he was on top of the game. The O2 announcement wasn't too huge here, I know I didn't hear about it until June 25th.
I also found a video to go along with yours, I've brought it up before (the first site), it has always sat strange with me and I don't know why. Facial expressions speak a million words! If you watch at the very beginning, the female wearing the flowered dress. She waves once and then has this expression on her face that I can't really pin point. To me its sort of like a "ok we're here I hope this goes well" kind of expression.
Let me know what you think. It's either I'm right on with my feeling or I'm completely wrong. I hope I embed this right, I haven't done this before. If not can someone help?
But what I wonder is, how is he going to debunk his $999 award numerology proof. Can't wait. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
I tried, and it's not possible. Not even Einstein would be able to claim the $999 award if he were alive. I am not Einstein, but I have enough math skills to know that my results are pretty close, if not exact.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
I also agree with looking at every angle, even ones we don't 'like' or are 'uncomfortable' with. And if any 'believer' has not looked at, or at least thought of, this angle...well, then they haven't done a thorough investigation IMO. So, I am in NO way bashing you or anyone who has thought of this angle because I, myself, have given it some thought as well. However, since none of us can prove anything at this point beyond the shadow of a doubt (even though we may feel in our souls that he is 100% alive)...and all we really have is bit and pieces of a huge puzzle...we are left with having to 'fit' those pieces into the most plausible scenario...into what actually makes sense.
The problem I had with this angle, when I looked at it, were as follows:
1) How did they just 'add' 50 shows to a legal and binding contract without MJ knowing? Any changes in contracts that I have ever seen require, at the least, all parties initials next to the changes. In most cases, if it's a major change in contract, a whole new contract is drawn up and the old one is voided. If they tried to pull a fast one on MJ without his approval...wouldn't MJ's lawyers contest the contract? Something tells me that if there was to be 50 shows (or even 10...I'm not even sure about that)...then MJ fully knew about it.
2) We have proof that people were after MJ in the past based on the 333 FBI pages released. And aside from those reports, do we really believe that Tom Sneddon worked alone in trying to bring MJ down? A 10+ year personal vendetta against an entertainer by a D.A.? We also know there was a conserted effort by the media to destroy MJ...so, why would it be difficult to believe that there actually were people still after him, and that 'they' most likely upped the ante to killing him, since all previous attempts to bring him down had failed?
3) You say he left 'clues' that people were after him when they really weren't...but again, there is the FBI files proving there were people after him. More importantly, though, then he also left 'clues' (many of them) that he's actually alive. So why would he do both? If he really just wanted it to look like he was killed, then wouldn't it make more sense to not leave clues of him being alive? Believers have found a lot of clues supporting him being alive, not to mention coming back...wouldn't AEG, with much more resources than we have, be able to find those same clues and most likely more?
4) How does Murray fit into this angle? Do you believe that he's really being tried for manslaughter? Cause if he is, then MJ would be allowing an innocent man to potentially go to prison...something he was vehemently against when he was in that same position. Do you believe MJ is capable of that? And if the trial is all fake because Murray is 'in on it' and therefore won't go to jail...then many more people must know that MJ is alive and just wanted to get out of doing concerts cause Murray would NOT be able to pull that off on his own.
Again, please do not think I am bashing you or anyone who has thought of this scenario...I fully support looking at every possible angle in order to determine what seems more plausible...it's all we can do right now. Nor am I directing these questions to you...these were just some thoughts/questions that I, myself, had when I looked at the possibility that MJ could have faked his death specifically to get out of doing the concerts. Maybe there are logical answers to my questions, IDK...and if you or anyone else has some plausible answers, I am open to hearing them. But, out of all the scenario's that I've played and replayed in my mind, this one just isn't as plausible as some others.
I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert.
The problem I had with this angle, when I looked at it, were as follows:
1) How did they just 'add' 50 shows to a legal and binding contract without MJ knowing? Any changes in contracts that I have ever seen require, at the least, all parties initials next to the changes. In most cases, if it's a major change in contract, a whole new contract is drawn up and the old one is voided. If they tried to pull a fast one on MJ without his approval...wouldn't MJ's lawyers contest the contract? Something tells me that if there was to be 50 shows (or even 10...I'm not even sure about that)...then MJ fully knew about it.
<br /> I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
<br /><br />Well I hope this is really not the case, because if it is, that means that Michael will not return until late 2012, because the Statue of Limitations in California for filing a lawsuit for fraud is 3 years!!! <br />Bummer! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
chorus: You can change the world,
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
These lyrics are very clear. I was thinking the same the last days. The song and the religion and TS - everything ties together through these lyrics. Of course I might be wrong.
IMO it doesn't matter who they say wrote the lyrics, but who's singing it. The immediate meaning is obvious. I do not see another interpretation. Except if the writer points to each one of us....but we can't all be "the chosen one".......only ONE can be the chosen one. And that's Michael himself.
Kristina for some reson I like your post very much.
You guys are amazing! So many great thoughts and theories, just brilliant! *clapping* <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
The main question (as many of your have mentioned) remains WHY IN THE WORLD "THEY" WOULD FOLLOW THE HOAX PLAN? What could be their motive to waist so much time on a very small group of people? Money?! - What kind of profit "they" can get from us? All forums are free, with no advertisements on it. To make us buy CD's and DVD's? Well all non believers are buying it anyway. So that TMZ could profit from us? There are millions of people reading TMZ every single day and by far not all of them are MJ's fans, to go through all this trouble just to get a couple (a couple of thousands) more clicks on their page? Nope! To get us buy all the books people (family and friends) write? The stories in the books are actually more focused on non believers, because they are all about how Michael was "murdered" by "them", AEG, Sony, CM, Branca, FD etc. Of course believers would buy it too, but only out of curiosity to compare stories and find something fishy <!-- s --><!-- s -->. But how much money can a book bring? it's not like they are selling Harry Potter or Twilight Saga. <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
So here is my VERY crazy theory <!-- s --><!-- s -->
So "they" found out about Michael's plan to hoax his death, but they didn't steal his notes (assume for a minute that every little detail was written down) but simply copied them. That way Michael wouldn't know that "they" know about his hoax plan. They made sure somehow that everyone who is involved in hoax will be following hoax plan even if Michael really died.
Why would they want for Michael's fans to Believe that he is alive? I found a very sloppy answer (at least something <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ --> ) to that question. I was watching David Icke's speech about "them" and one part really caught my attention. Start watching at 5:00 or watch a whole video if you wish. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> (I'm NOT saying that everything he says is true, but it's sure interesting)
[BBvideo 425,350:20b31onj]
Maybe when they stole Michael's notes they wanted to create another so called "religion" for Michael's fans to believe in. So that millions of people would give their energy for "them" to feed on it. Sounds crazy but somehow possible. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Here is a debunk to my own theory: 1)The plan obviously didn't work! In the first year of hoax they had a great chance to make most of Michael's fans into believers. Because people were still very lost and confused, they couldn't let go of Michael and if "they" made some kind of strong clue. Something like force family (if they are under threat, because there is no other way they could trick family into hoax) talk about hoax even more. Fans could have fallen for it and Ta ta... here are your millions of believers, lot's of energy and an easy way to manipulate us. And "they" are happy, thinking how smart and smooth "they" are! <!-- srr/ -->rr/<!-- srr/ --> But why bother so much with few thousands of people for 2 years?????!!!!!! Send TS to us, whom more than half of believers don't even like? I don't see any reason in it, if you do please let me know! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
2) Why let us know about NWO and "them"? Why try to awake us? Why tell us that Media is lying to us? Why try to be so nice? Yes in the beginning it could have been as part of a new "religion", there always must be Good and Evil, so that we'll have more faith in Michael. But for 2 years????!!!! Without any profit from us??? Really????!!!! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Fordtocarr
Well, I'm sorry to you too if I offended you. Geez, why is it alright for some to say things which have been stated, but not for me to disagree and state mine?
I know you believe what you say, as do I. I simply stated how I feel just as you and others do. I never tried to condemn or may anyone feel badly, it's just that "I" don't believe that Michael is the archangel and "I" don't believe Michael claimed to be either. Isn't it alright that I say that if you can say you think so?
I'm sorry you may be offended. Genuinely.
And I tried to make my comment tied to the things that were being discussed, but I see that it is getting off topic. That said..once again, I'm sorry I disagreed with you and perhaps offended anyone.
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I’m not offended at all! I absolutely love open frank respectful discussion, but if I sense someone getting upset I back away and feel uncomfortable. So I hope everythings’s good here! <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
BeTheChange, good response!
I think that just like MJ through Dileo sent those lies to the media early in his career, about the hyperbaric chamber and the elephant man bones (the test), that he is also in this hoax setting the background for the hoax with possible exponentially more lies/half-truths for scenarios accompanied by proofs and verification by actual testimonies. Like in a labyrinth he has created dead-ends. The FBI's 333 files may prove MJ had enemies, but he also had many many friends in very high places to arrange for the various scenarios/dead-ends.
So then I agree with all4loveandbelieve's post about MJ conspiring everything, except for the not wanting to do 50 shows part (another fabricated story).
Kristina4LOVE, your theory has definately played in the back of my mind. It is similar to EarthEnigma's theory that the Illuminati are going to use Michael to produce an extravanganza end-time show of Christ returning to earth with technology, and all the while they usher in their evil agenda. Then someone talked of how you keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and that all his life MJ has lived in the enemy camp and got to know them from the inside. My theory I wrote a while back was basically that the Illuminati were the ones with the grand hoax plan (Coca Cola and more) and MJ was meekly going along with it, but that at some point he was from within going to surprise them and be victorious over them, almost like a sting over the whole of the Illuminati/PTB. "There was war in heaven--Michael fighting with the dragon, and won." This is all outragiously layered and complicated. <!-- sfresse/ -->fresse/<!-- sfresse/ --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Gema you are right, it's the gut feeling that brought us here in the first place. It all started with the O2 for me, with the dilema was it MJ or not, and with this fist to some unknown enemy:<br /><br /><br />You are a phychologist, what's your take about that fist? It bothered me for a very long time. Michael looks angry for a second, realy angry.
<br /><br />it is true that we humans gather most of our true feeling in our facial expressions. Michael is wearing shades, so I can´t tell if he is angry or not. Also, we don´t know if he used his fist as one if his steps, if it was a pose or if in fact was a sign of power.<br /><br />[img]http://t2.gstatic.com[thumbnail]/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0nHw27RsQ5AiV2nrlnh5CHPrjfi4I7ZQqaa3TYhraTnJLgT40[/img]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In the New Testament book of Revelations, it says:<br />“They continued to ‘raise their fists at God, refuse to repent and sores were all over their bodies’ ”<br />Revelations. Chapter 16: vs. 11<br /><br />However, the fist up is historic gesture. The truth is that it is a gesture used throughout history by socialists, communists and even anarchists. The Socialists have always raised his left fist, and regardless of their origin, what is clear is the symbolism of the gesture contains: explicit the need for unity of the working class. It is not an aggressive gesture, but a defender of the unity of all workers. In short, is the practical expression of one of the fundamental principles of the labor movement in general and socialism in particular. I refer to internationalism, the idea is very clearly present before the formation of the First International (1864), especially in a basic text as the Communist Manifesto of Marx and Engels, which defends the idea of equality .
This pic looks shopped to me anyway. His shoulder has a red shadow. Like if the courtain has been blended in his clothes. And yes, I have considered the light, may be is red, but still...the pic looks shopped to me.
Comments
Alrighty <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Alrighty. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I thought that you wrote it for me because I'm the one who wrote he didn't age and change at all. That's ok if you didn't write it to me. But I really do not like when people feel the need of reminding that Michael is not God, like we already don't know it. You know what I'm saying? He looks amazing but this has nothing to do with being God. Anyways, this is not a good topic to discuss about. Let's get back to topic. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Michael: I can't do it by myself,
chorus: You can touch the sky,
Michael: Gonna take somebodies help,
chorus: You're the chosen one,
Michael: I'm gonna need some kind of sign,
That song speaks volumes, to me, about what Michael considers his purpose and duty on this earth to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think he writes lyrics like this frivolously.
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Those of us who have made reference to Michael being prophesied in the bible (which ever way someone views him) is not meant to be disrespectful to those who chose not to believe. We each have an individual interpretation. Some chose to see him as ArchAngel Michael, some chose to see him as the pre-incarnate of Jesus, and some of us chose to see him as a figure who is prophesied in Daniel as a Chief Prince of God's Army-(a man/messenger) chosen by God for our times. This should not be a source of threat to anyone or a debate. It is what it is how ever you see it.
In the end The Troot will Prevail!
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as for the topic at hand i wish to hell there was some way to get down to the nitty gritty about it. settled , signed sealed and delivered from michaels lips to our ears . it has been a reoccurring problem and it is divisive. humm maybe that is the point.
I don't want to sound mean because I know that Michael writes beautiful music, but for the song "Cry" R.Kelly wrote those lyrics.
Ohhhhhhh, you're right *face*palm*, I forgot <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
sorry . guess i'm out for now
I wouldn't have known that except for the first time I heard the song (2 years ago isn't that a shame) I looked up the lyrics and saw it.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I absolutely agree with you about the funeral Souza. There was no need for a green screened funeral if he was gone for real. When I told about this to some non-believers, they told me that, maybe the family wanted the scene/the view looked better. Why would they bother to make the view look better? Their son, brother is "dead", they would have been in a big shock. Who would care about the view? So, I agree with what you said about the funeral, and about the ambo pic too.
TS had better start to debunk our hoax proofs. That would take a long time to debunk them all. But what I wonder is, how is he going to debunk his $999 award numerology proof. Can't wait. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
I have to agree with you I don't think he was murdered for his catalog either. The only thing I question is why now? MJ has been out of the spotlight for years, I would think it would make more sense to do it while he was on top of the game. The O2 announcement wasn't too huge here, I know I didn't hear about it until June 25th.
I also found a video to go along with yours, I've brought it up before (the first site), it has always sat strange with me and I don't know why. Facial expressions speak a million words! If you watch at the very beginning, the female wearing the flowered dress. She waves once and then has this expression on her face that I can't really pin point. To me its sort of like a "ok we're here I hope this goes well" kind of expression.
Let me know what you think. It's either I'm right on with my feeling or I'm completely wrong. I hope I embed this right, I haven't done this before. If not can someone help?
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I tried, and it's not possible. Not even Einstein would be able to claim the $999 award if he were alive. I am not Einstein, but I have enough math skills to know that my results are pretty close, if not exact.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I have spoke to many believers, friends of friends, they have read every single post in this forum, they did not join but they told me that we are looking at the wrong side. This is what they feel, Michael was never in danger, he was forced to do 10 concerts which he signed for,he was kind of ok with it. He felt he was in good shape for the 10 concerts, then suddenly he saw the contract they added 40 more concert. Michael did not want to do 50 concerts, he faked his death in order not do to the concerts, and not to be fined law suit from AEG for backing out of the contract. If you saw my post earlier I did say that he faked his death to not do the concerts, I am starting to believe my friends, no one is after Michael, he conspired everything, he left clues that someone is trying to kill him, very clever of him so, us fans the world will think he was murdered, which will make his death real. Please do not bash me for stating my opinion. I read everyone's opinion, I do not bash anyone even if I feel it is not right. So pls <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->.. In life you have to look in every angle of a situation, what I am saying can be plausible. I hope I am right, because at least we know Michael was not in danger with the mafia, nor with Illuminati. blessings.
I also agree with looking at every angle, even ones we don't 'like' or are 'uncomfortable' with. And if any 'believer' has not looked at, or at least thought of, this angle...well, then they haven't done a thorough investigation IMO. So, I am in NO way bashing you or anyone who has thought of this angle because I, myself, have given it some thought as well. However, since none of us can prove anything at this point beyond the shadow of a doubt (even though we may feel in our souls that he is 100% alive)...and all we really have is bit and pieces of a huge puzzle...we are left with having to 'fit' those pieces into the most plausible scenario...into what actually makes sense.
The problem I had with this angle, when I looked at it, were as follows:
1) How did they just 'add' 50 shows to a legal and binding contract without MJ knowing? Any changes in contracts that I have ever seen require, at the least, all parties initials next to the changes. In most cases, if it's a major change in contract, a whole new contract is drawn up and the old one is voided. If they tried to pull a fast one on MJ without his approval...wouldn't MJ's lawyers contest the contract? Something tells me that if there was to be 50 shows (or even 10...I'm not even sure about that)...then MJ fully knew about it.
2) We have proof that people were after MJ in the past based on the 333 FBI pages released. And aside from those reports, do we really believe that Tom Sneddon worked alone in trying to bring MJ down? A 10+ year personal vendetta against an entertainer by a D.A.? We also know there was a conserted effort by the media to destroy MJ...so, why would it be difficult to believe that there actually were people still after him, and that 'they' most likely upped the ante to killing him, since all previous attempts to bring him down had failed?
3) You say he left 'clues' that people were after him when they really weren't...but again, there is the FBI files proving there were people after him. More importantly, though, then he also left 'clues' (many of them) that he's actually alive. So why would he do both? If he really just wanted it to look like he was killed, then wouldn't it make more sense to not leave clues of him being alive? Believers have found a lot of clues supporting him being alive, not to mention coming back...wouldn't AEG, with much more resources than we have, be able to find those same clues and most likely more?
4) How does Murray fit into this angle? Do you believe that he's really being tried for manslaughter? Cause if he is, then MJ would be allowing an innocent man to potentially go to prison...something he was vehemently against when he was in that same position. Do you believe MJ is capable of that? And if the trial is all fake because Murray is 'in on it' and therefore won't go to jail...then many more people must know that MJ is alive and just wanted to get out of doing concerts cause Murray would NOT be able to pull that off on his own.
Again, please do not think I am bashing you or anyone who has thought of this scenario...I fully support looking at every possible angle in order to determine what seems more plausible...it's all we can do right now. Nor am I directing these questions to you...these were just some thoughts/questions that I, myself, had when I looked at the possibility that MJ could have faked his death specifically to get out of doing the concerts. Maybe there are logical answers to my questions, IDK...and if you or anyone else has some plausible answers, I am open to hearing them. But, out of all the scenario's that I've played and replayed in my mind, this one just isn't as plausible as some others.
With L.O.V.E. always.
Yeah.
These lyrics are very clear. I was thinking the same the last days. The song and the religion and TS - everything ties together through these lyrics. Of course I might be wrong.
IMO it doesn't matter who they say wrote the lyrics, but who's singing it. The immediate meaning is obvious. I do not see another interpretation. Except if the writer points to each one of us....but we can't all be "the chosen one".......only ONE can be the chosen one. And that's Michael himself.
BeTheChange, good response!
I think that just like MJ through Dileo sent those lies to the media early in his career, about the hyperbaric chamber and the elephant man bones (the test), that he is also in this hoax setting the background for the hoax with possible exponentially more lies/half-truths for scenarios accompanied by proofs and verification by actual testimonies. Like in a labyrinth he has created dead-ends. The FBI's 333 files may prove MJ had enemies, but he also had many many friends in very high places to arrange for the various scenarios/dead-ends.
So then I agree with all4loveandbelieve's post about MJ conspiring everything, except for the not wanting to do 50 shows part (another fabricated story).
Kristina4LOVE, your theory has definately played in the back of my mind. It is similar to EarthEnigma's theory that the Illuminati are going to use Michael to produce an extravanganza end-time show of Christ returning to earth with technology, and all the while they usher in their evil agenda. Then someone talked of how you keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and that all his life MJ has lived in the enemy camp and got to know them from the inside. My theory I wrote a while back was basically that the Illuminati were the ones with the grand hoax plan (Coca Cola and more) and MJ was meekly going along with it, but that at some point he was from within going to surprise them and be victorious over them, almost like a sting over the whole of the Illuminati/PTB. "There was war in heaven--Michael fighting with the dragon, and won." This is all outragiously layered and complicated. <!-- sfresse/ -->fresse/<!-- sfresse/ --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s
This pic looks shopped to me anyway. His shoulder has a red shadow. Like if the courtain has been blended in his clothes. And yes, I have considered the light, may be is red, but still...the pic looks shopped to me.